Richard Flagg has videos on this subject, he is a saw builder and shows the internals and how lubricity fairs on bearings, and connecting rods. He goes onto price and availability of said oils, it’s very interesting to know. Thanks for your video, I just switched to echo red armor for my chainsaw.
I used to like a Richard Flagg channel but seems like all he does is really complain about stihl ultra. All I use is stihl motomix in my pro saws burns clean to me keeps the inside super clean. Not sure if I’m doing the right thing or if it’s the alkaline that the oils mixed with but seems to work fine.
In my tests I compared different oils at 32:1, 40:1, and 50:1 (starting at 50:1 and moved down) in various saws, and weadeaters. I did not dyno the equipment, but ran them side by side a half gallon of each ratio a day and I could not notice a power difference overall between the ratios. What I did notice when I removed the muffler and cylinder after a weeks run time logging, that 32:1 was too much with some oils and 50:1 did not leave the protective film in the bottom end with most OPE oils like 40:1 did. I encourage folks who put alot of hours on there saws or just want them to last a lifetime to purchase a ratio rite mixing cup with a lid and spend some time researching this for yourself. The time I spent on research has resulted in me having zero failures with crank bearings, pistons/rings and carbon buildup in my production work saws since running Bell-ray H1-R at 32:1 or 40:1 and Honda HP2 at 40:1 for over 5 years now. Previously I would get a year to a year and a half out of a saw and it would need a total rebuild. Plus I have not had any carb issues like I did in the past. Proper carb tuning is very important as well, I often work on saws that someone runs rich all the time because they are afraid of blowing a saw up but end up with scoring from excess carbon build up. I did compare JASO ratings but like came to the conclusion after testing that just because a company didn't want to pay for it did not mean their oil was somehow inferior. When I look back over all the years that I have worked on 2 strokes and time spent in different repair shops, the most common causes for failures in 2 stroke engines I have seen was folks not running oil in their mix (straight gas, this happens alot!), water in fuel, running clogged fuel and air filters (poor maintenance), and cutting with dull chains. Correcting those problems and running the best oils you can will significantly extend the life of your saws.
All I run in my pro saws is Stihl Motomix. After each day of using them I clean all my saws really well go through them and sharpen the chains. Do you feel like I’m on the right path for keeping my saws for a lifetime or should I change something ?
Great comments yes just because a company who sells oil don't have a jaso rating mean nothing. Shell did not use jaso rating it cost a lot of money and a yearly fee also. I will be switching to 45:1 or 40:1 our local dealer had motul 800 and formular K2 so I got formular K2 It's looks ok. Many bike rider use it. There are many other good brands out there. You just to avoid any bad ones
@@st7650 I have very limited experience with moto mix so I cannot speak to that. I would like to see the inside of a saw ran on only motomix for an extended time. Perhaps there is someone out there that has done some comprehensive tests with different pre-mixes. I have used Husqvarna's pre-mix in a 592xp I was testing with them. I was not able to tear the saw down to see how well it oiled the bottom end but looking in the plug hole it burned very clean, and only ever had their pre-mix run in it, so it would have been a good one to inspect. It was $$$$$ for production cutting. I have used VP pre-mix 40:1 with no issues, it's about $13.00 a gallon cheaper than the Husqvarna pre- mix were I'm at and I prefer 40:1 so that is the pre-mix I have used the most. I think for someone that cannot get ethanol free fuel or is an occasional user and their saw sits on the shelf for extended times, the pre-mix fuel is a good idea. I average 1-1 1/2 gallons of fuel a day through my saws so I do not run alot of pre-mix because of the cost. Sounds like you are doing good maintenance wise, I too blow my saws off and clean and inspect them and grease the clutch bearing after every work day, it makes a difference for sure. If you inspect the exhaust port and it is getting carbon buildup on a properly tuned saw and or the bottom end is dry after you run it, try something different. Let us know how the moto mix works out for you.
@230e4 Great comments yes you can find tear down information on RUclips used with different oils. It's a great debate lol. I only seek the best oil ratio and the best 2 stoke oils. That is where everyone has a favourite brand and all difference of opinions. But the truth lies in the middle. I select my 2 stroke oil based on what the world bike rider champions use. Castrol, Motul, Yamaha, Dominator, Honda Oil, Silkolene, Husqvarna, Amsoil and many more. All these oils are highly regarded world wide. It's your choice
A higher oil percentage like 40:136:132:1 makes more power consistently.. it's not because of the flammability of the oil, or its ability to burn and make power, but rather due to the better ring seal and less frictional loss.. a slightly higher amount of oil requires a marginally richer mixture as well so the total burned fuel amount is pretty much the same. Less oil is not going to produce more power
Correct. There is a "sweet spot" fuel/oil ratio for maximum performance that varies for a particular fuel and oil being used and racers will confirm what dyno testing also shows is a fact. Weather and altitude also have a bearing where is that sweet spot.
Definately a can off worms. When I put a new cilinder head/piston kit on something. I always use the Stihl Multi-oil spray can to lubricate everything during assembly. Don't put gas in the tank and it starts right up with a big puff off smoke. Always amazed that these high performance 2-strokes can run on something that's more close to diesel than petrol. I'm running the HP-ultra in the ready blended Motomix Eco these days. But we've been using the HP Super, HP Ultra for ages. About carbon build up. It's not all about the oil. The fuel you use has a lot to do with it to. Sparks plugs come out of cheap briggs lawn mower engines perfectly clean after a couple of years use with Moto4Plus. And come out of high end kawasaki professional engines like a black ragged sock well before maintenance is sheduled.
Thanks for the great comment added. Same here I have a lot of pro saws all I have ever used is stihl motomix in my 2 cycle engines and Stihl moto4 in all my 4 cycle small engines. Seems to work great engines are super clean. Not to mention on my saws I do clean them very well after I use them all day then resharpen the chains not to mention before I get started I let the saw warm up for a few minutes before jumping right in and cutting letting the cylinder warm up
@@st7650 on the carbureted models I’ve always adjusted the Low screw so that it puts out a bit of smoke on acceleration. Especially the T models. These days with Motronic you can’t fiddle or mess about. It just does it’s thing. But there you have it in a nutshell: sharp chains, clean filters, great fuell, a bit of fun on start-up with the happy trigger and just let her sit and idle for a bit when the work is done. Adhere to that and I’m pretty much out of a job. Gives me more time to fiddle with the 500i ;-)
In Australia you have access to Stihl 2-stroke oil that is JASO- FD rated. In the U.S. we do not have access to that same oil, which is a shame. The Stihl oil in the U.S. is not made by Castrol as far as I know. If it is, it is not labeled as such on the bottle. This is why this is such a hot issue on many U.S. based YT channels that deal with 2-stroke equipment like saws, string trimmers, etc.. Thanks for your video. It is always good to get a fresh perspective on this from someone outside the U.S..
Hey mate, just a quick heads up, more oil = better ring seal and more horsepower all the way down to 16:1. This has been proven over and over and you can find the tests online. Less oil doesn’t = more power. Hope this helps
No idea what is best, but have been using Amsoil Sabre for many years and with the previous Amsoil labeled as 100:1 this use is 35+ years. I have been running it at 80:1 in chainsaws, weed trimmers, brush cutters and blowers. Never ever had a problem and engines still running great.
The best part about the video is the comments, users with 40 years plus experience and many mechanics telling stories about carbon build up and many other interesting things about saws and the oil and mix ratio they use and why. The biggest complaints about Stihl ultra oil is from America not sure who is making the Stihl oil there. But I heard the Stihl ultra was made for the weed wackers the 4 mix ones. Not sure how long Stihl has been selling oil they don't make it. I have an bottle of the standard blue oil and it has castrol on the bottom. But keep the comments coming in makes great reading with people's experiences
The difference I have seen show up for comparing 40 t0 1 with 50 to 1 is for the operating temperature of a saw that is being run hard during hot weather. A saw can do fine with 50 to 1 in cold weather but will run excessively hot with that leaner mix when being worked hard during hot summer weather. The saw runs at a more normal temperature and does better with the richer oil mix when being worked hard during hot summer weather. The mixture screws need to be adjusted a bit richer for the 40 to 1 compared to 50 to 1. Seeing a seasonal difference for that mix range, a good compromise is near the middle to split the difference with 45 to 1 for when the weather outside is comfortable. The oils that are multi-rated will generally be cleaner burning less smoky than racing oils where the priority for racing oils is extreme duty lubrication for short term racing use with not so much concern about clean burning. So for a power tool that is going to have many hours long term use and minimal maintenance wanted as a different priority from racing, then an FD rated oil is logically a better choice than a racing oil. Haven't tried the Maxima Premium 2 oil but see it is multi-rated good for everything. The racing oils are generally unrated because they won't pass the emissions requirements of the rated oils and were never intended for rated uses but only for the specialized purpose of racing.
I just brought maxima formula K2 racing oil it like many others are now being used in chainsaws. I am aware of the jaso rating but it cost a lot of money to get certified and that's just for one oil and a yearly cost also and if that oil company produces say 12 different oils then the cost is 12 times and 12 yearly cost on each oil. Even shell don't use jaso rating on all its oils. If the oil companies were forced to use jaso ratings we could have a better choice.
I’m using Motorex 2T FD rating at 40:1 now as all my chainsaw’s have that much carbon buildup on them, it’s just unreal. I’ve only just started using the Motorex a few weeks ago at 40:1 and checking my plugs, cylinder tops and piston walls from exhaust side after each tank, just to see if I have enough lubricity on my parts. These components look great. Hopefully they will clean up a little without stripping them down?
Stihl Ultra really is not a good oil the carbon build up in my FS76 was huge. In my saws, I like the motor cross oils. I think 45:1 is a good compromise and as you say it is a can of worms hopefully your video will help people to decide.
Stihl HP Ultra is excellent but only when mixed 50:1. There is nothing wrong with it and I have been using it for years. I own 3 blowers ( all Stihl), 3 trimmers (2 Stihl, 1 Echo) and 4 chainsaws (1 Stihl., 2 Dolmar and 1 Echo) and all have been running fine. People who are having issues with HP Ultra tend to run 40:1 or even 30:1 ratios which causes problems with excessive carbon buildup, clogged screens, etc. Recently, I switched to Castrol but only because I'm tired of Stihl's price gouging practices. These days they are on par with ultra high end motorcycle racing oils which is truly ridiculous.
I had a fellow respond to one of my comments about which 2-cycle oils I run in my chainsaws. Telling me they were poor choices for chainsaws because they supposedly burned dirty, those being AMSOIL SABER, Interceptor, Dominator and VP-Racing. Trying to pass the old wives-tale off that because they were full synthetics and not semi-synthetics that they ran dirty. When I gave him facts about the JASO ratings and that three of the four were tested to run super clean in power equipment he never gave a response back. Which amused me. I try to follow the facts and not myths that some old-school users like to throw about because they dislike full synthetics. The reason for 50:1 in modern power equipment isn't anything to do with performance, it's for emissions reasons. The less oil ran in your equipment the less carbon emissions are put out. It's all having to do with government smog regulations. Every 2-cycle oil that is from a power equipment manufacturer or that is sold in the lawn & garden section of box stores will most always be rated JASO-FD. AMSOIL SABER is specifically engineered for power equipment so it is JASO-FD rated as well as VP-Racing. AMSOIL Interceptor isn't directly saying it's JASO-FD rated because its' main use is for snowmobiles, atvs, motorcycles and personal water craft. BUT, it also says (where API-TC & JASO-FD oils are specified.) which to me means (safe for use in hand-held power equipment). AMSOIL Dominator being a race oil aimed for use in modern power-valve based engines is JASO-FB rated. Your Maxima oil is most likely also a JASO-FB rated oil because it's a competing product to AMSOIL Dominator. From what I read anything that's JASO-FB rated is still perfectly fine for use in chainsaws and hand-held power equipment. I mix all of my fuel at 40:1, it's a perfect spot because it's not too much and it's not too little.
The oils you mentioned are top choices why would anyone rag those choices. Like opening a tin of worms. But the comments are the best reading not the video. The comments are from real users with opinions. If to many pesky bad things about a product you need to listen. If only a few say bad things then I take no notice
@@ChainsawUsers It was because they were someone who believed in using the semi-synthetic oils. Trying to tell me you needed a 2-cycle oil that had a natural base like castor to run clean in a chainsaw. Which is a bunch of hooey. I know AMSOIL like all brands wants you to buy their product. But their website is literally loaded with info trying to tell you how clean their oils burn. On the info page for Interceptor they literally have a guarantee for how clean Interceptor burns. Stating that anyone who runs nothing but Interceptor in their recent year snowmobile is guaranteed a full engine replacement if their engine fails while using AMSOIL's product. You'd figure if they're offering a guarantee like that you'll bet your butt they're selling you something that won't make your engine fail. Because just straight up giving free engine replacements in modern sleds are gonna be costly. Also, if you want some extra piece of mind add some Marvels Mystery Oil to your base gasoline/petrol before adding your 2-cycle mix. It adds lubricity back into the fuel because modern fuel is very dry. A bottle says to measure about 1/2oz-1oz of MMO to 1gallon of fuel. :)
@@ChainsawUsers I bet, they go with what works. One dirt bike channel I watch here on YT from time to time likes to run Putoline 2-cycle. But they're from England so Putoline isn't something you'll find here in the states. :)
Pretty much all the motorcyle 2 stroke oils are really good. K2 is great. Castor 927 another maxima product. Echo Red armor is by far and away the best from the saw manufacturers. 44:1 or 40:1 is definitely a better mix. Stihl ultra just not a good oil. If you run your stuff light duty probably won't be a major problem with stihl oil. But any kind of hard use or commercial use would just be foolish to use that stihl ultra. Most pros don't.
@@ChainsawUsers I have. It does smell good. There are myths out there about it gumming up your saw. Not been my experience at all. Aaron Lynch does a tear down on a saw he's ran several years and only used that. Really clean. Check it out. But nothing wrong with that K2 either. Can run it without worry.
@Mightycaptain Thanks for the heads up on that. Been some bad reports on the Stihl Ultra oil in America. No one here complaining our oil here comes from Castrol as far as I know
@@ChainsawUsers could be that have different distribution and makers in different countries. Canada variety looks different to me. Ours is trash in the US. They obviously don’t make their own oil. Just brand it. But to avoid import etc. they may have someone else do it for your part of the world.
Seems like all the problems with ultra are coming from the United States, in Europe they rave about the stuff, I am in Australia too and myself as well as everyone I know have had nothing but excellent results with it 🤷♂️
The variant sold here in the states is total garbage. Lots of claims of peoples equipment burning up while using it. The European version of something is always better than the version they sell here in the states.
@@ChainsawUsers Castrol still makes oil for Stihl, it's the version in the orange bottles here. The stuff in the orange bottle is actually good. But a lot of the time new equipment owners will get wrangled into some extended warranty BS by the dealer that Stihl offers. Something along the lines of if you buy an extended warranty you'll get a 6-pack of Stihl HP Ultra free. The HP Ultra comes in a silver/gray bottle here in the states. I've read comments from people saying the HP Ultra stuff is so bad their equipment has lasted long enough to meet the extended warranty. Once their equipment crapped out they were out of warranty and no longer covered for repairs.
We also hear about film tackiness the ability of the oil to cling to metal. It's a very interesting subject. I can only say I want the best protector my saws. Buy that's easy said and harder to know what is the best.
Here we go, this never ends well. More oil = more ring seal = more power to certain extent. 32:1 should make more power than 50:1 all things being equal. Whats the trade off? Oil does not cool the cylinder anywhere near as efficiently as fuel. This is the critical part that people don’t understand. Thats why all small 2 stroke equipment moved to 50:1. It’s not an environment, EPA thing. It is to help control the amount of heat. Why 32:1 in a 250cc bike vs 50:1 in a chainsaw? A bike has better airflow, water cooling and a larger cylinder area to disperse heat. I don’t know about the smaller containers here but 5 and 20 Litre drums of Stihl HP ultra are labeled made in Germany here. I don’t know by who but it is different to what they get in the US. I have used it, it’s fine. I have used a lot of other 2 stroke oil and all performed fine. The people that engineered and built the saw know what’s best for it. Follow their recommendation not some shit you will read on the internet. The vast majority of failures occur due to air leaks or the operator not adding il to the mix. I don’t think i have ever seen one fail due to poor quality oil, most are due to user error.
Interesting comments yes it gets talked about a lot but great reading for new people who just brought a saw and want more information. It makes great reading. We can all learn something.
@@ChainsawUsers If you want to play with different mix rates, go for it but try and follow the below and don't go to extremes. M Tronic or 500i- will compensate it self to a degree. Manual adjust carb - Tune it with a tach following the Stihl (or manufacturers )carb manual. It explains the process, much better than guessing by ear. Non adjustable carbs ie. Ms170/180 etc. Don't. They can't compensate for the different mix. Stick with the 50:1 they run on the edge of lean at the best of times.
It maybe talked about to much that's because it's hard to really know what's is best mix and what oil is said to be the best and why ? Yes jaso ratings help
@@ChainsawUsers How long do you expect before you need to open up the motor? Realistically a ring in a chainsaw will have an excessive gap around the 150 hour mark. Most saws can run a tank of fuel between 12-18 minutes when running hard. Let's call it 20 minutes for simplicity. 3 tanks / hour. 150 hours. 450 tanks between pull downs. Will a different oil brand or mix ratio significantly affect this? My experience says no. Most rebuilds occur due to seal failures or other air leaks and these occur more due to time than wear. You hear lots of experience of people running "X" brand of oil and my saw lasted 20 years, It's the best! Is that actually impressive if they ran 8-10 tanks per year through the saw?
Why does oil have high energy density? It all boils down to the potential chemical energy. Oil is a very diverse mixture of a large amount of different hydrocarbons, from the simplest ones (methane), to very complex and heavy ones (bitumen, with 50-100x larger molecules than methane), and they all have a slightly different energy densities.
Hmmm interesting point. Whilst long chain molecules like oils have a higher calorific value than petrol, you’d likely not see their benefits manifest as power in a typical chainsaw engine design, due to the speed of combustion. Too slow a combustion rate would see incomplete combustion of oils for the stroke and piston speed. Like diesel’s, I’d expect a long stroke and slow RPM/piston speed would be the key to extract energy, but as we know with diesels they get better thermal efficiency and higher torque but NOT power as power is the torque at speed and diesels just run out of puff at moderate RPM. Anyways, that’s my back of a Winnie’s packet hypothesis
@@PurpleNovemberit's not so much the higher energy content that makes more power with more oil, it's the better ring seal. This was consistently tested with motorbikes, chainsaws and down to 32:1 it kept making more power.
Been using motul 710 full synthetic at 40.1 with 95 fuel ran about 12 tanks through my ms660 and there's no carbon build up on the exhaust port and the piston is like new still
50:1 will not produce more power, probably opposite - less power... To my knowledge its all to do with emissions. With 50:1 u will have good upped cilinder lubrication, but bottom end will suffer with low lubrication, and excessive wear... Personally will never go over 40:1 mix ratio, regardless how good oil claims to be... I always said its much cheaper extra spoon off oil, then engine rebuild...
Richard Flagg has videos on this subject, he is a saw builder and shows the internals and how lubricity fairs on bearings, and connecting rods. He goes onto price and availability of said oils, it’s very interesting to know. Thanks for your video, I just switched to echo red armor for my chainsaw.
Been using Red Armor for years at 40 to 1. Lubricates great and clean burning.
I used to like a Richard Flagg channel but seems like all he does is really complain about stihl ultra. All I use is stihl motomix in my pro saws burns clean to me keeps the inside super clean. Not sure if I’m doing the right thing or if it’s the alkaline that the oils mixed with but seems to work fine.
Glad to hear the Australian side of it !
So far I don't hear any one complain about Stihl oil here in Australia
In my tests I compared different oils at 32:1, 40:1, and 50:1 (starting at 50:1 and moved down) in various saws, and weadeaters. I did not dyno the equipment, but ran them side by side a half gallon of each ratio a day and I could not notice a power difference overall between the ratios. What I did notice when I removed the muffler and cylinder after a weeks run time logging, that 32:1 was too much with some oils and 50:1 did not leave the protective film in the bottom end with most OPE oils like 40:1 did. I encourage folks who put alot of hours on there saws or just want them to last a lifetime to purchase a ratio rite mixing cup with a lid and spend some time researching this for yourself. The time I spent on research has resulted in me having zero failures with crank bearings, pistons/rings and carbon buildup in my production work saws since running Bell-ray H1-R at 32:1 or 40:1 and Honda HP2 at 40:1 for over 5 years now. Previously I would get a year to a year and a half out of a saw and it would need a total rebuild. Plus I have not had any carb issues like I did in the past. Proper carb tuning is very important as well, I often work on saws that someone runs rich all the time because they are afraid of blowing a saw up but end up with scoring from excess carbon build up. I did compare JASO ratings but like came to the conclusion after testing that just because a company didn't want to pay for it did not mean their oil was somehow inferior. When I look back over all the years that I have worked on 2 strokes and time spent in different repair shops, the most common causes for failures in 2 stroke engines I have seen was folks not running oil in their mix (straight gas, this happens alot!), water in fuel, running clogged fuel and air filters (poor maintenance), and cutting with dull chains. Correcting those problems and running the best oils you can will significantly extend the life of your saws.
All I run in my pro saws is Stihl Motomix. After each day of using them I clean all my saws really well go through them and sharpen the chains. Do you feel like I’m on the right path for keeping my saws for a lifetime or should I change something ?
Great comments yes just because a company who sells oil don't have a jaso rating mean nothing. Shell did not use jaso rating it cost a lot of money and a yearly fee also. I will be switching to 45:1 or 40:1 our local dealer had motul 800 and formular K2 so I got formular K2
It's looks ok. Many bike rider use it.
There are many other good brands out there. You just to avoid any bad ones
I been using stihl oil for 20 years in Australia also and never had a issue but the piston in my ms380 was full of carbon but that's 18 years work
@@st7650 I have very limited experience with moto mix so I cannot speak to that. I would like to see the inside of a saw ran on only motomix for an extended time. Perhaps there is someone out there that has done some comprehensive tests with different pre-mixes. I have used Husqvarna's pre-mix in a 592xp I was testing with them. I was not able to tear the saw down to see how well it oiled the bottom end but looking in the plug hole it burned very clean, and only ever had their pre-mix run in it, so it would have been a good one to inspect. It was $$$$$ for production cutting. I have used VP pre-mix 40:1 with no issues, it's about $13.00 a gallon cheaper than the Husqvarna pre- mix were I'm at and I prefer 40:1 so that is the pre-mix I have used the most. I think for someone that cannot get ethanol free fuel or is an occasional user and their saw sits on the shelf for extended times, the pre-mix fuel is a good idea. I average 1-1 1/2 gallons of fuel a day through my saws so I do not run alot of pre-mix because of the cost. Sounds like you are doing good maintenance wise, I too blow my saws off and clean and inspect them and grease the clutch bearing after every work day, it makes a difference for sure. If you inspect the exhaust port and it is getting carbon buildup on a properly tuned saw and or the bottom end is dry after you run it, try something different. Let us know how the moto mix works out for you.
@230e4 Great comments yes you can find tear down information on RUclips used with different oils.
It's a great debate lol. I only seek the best oil ratio and the best 2 stoke oils. That is where everyone has a favourite brand and all difference of opinions. But the truth lies in the middle. I select my 2 stroke oil based on what the world bike rider champions use. Castrol, Motul, Yamaha, Dominator, Honda Oil, Silkolene, Husqvarna, Amsoil and many more. All these oils are highly regarded world wide. It's your choice
A higher oil percentage like 40:1 36:1 32:1 makes more power consistently.. it's not because of the flammability of the oil, or its ability to burn and make power, but rather due to the better ring seal and less frictional loss.. a slightly higher amount of oil requires a marginally richer mixture as well so the total burned fuel amount is pretty much the same. Less oil is not going to produce more power
Correct. There is a "sweet spot" fuel/oil ratio for maximum performance that varies
for a particular fuel and oil being used and racers will confirm what dyno testing also shows is a fact. Weather and altitude also have a bearing where is that sweet spot.
@artpatronforever yes altitude has a major effect the 500i will self adjust in direction altitudes
Definately a can off worms. When I put a new cilinder head/piston kit on something. I always use the Stihl Multi-oil spray can to lubricate everything during assembly. Don't put gas in the tank and it starts right up with a big puff off smoke. Always amazed that these high performance 2-strokes can run on something that's more close to diesel than petrol. I'm running the HP-ultra in the ready blended Motomix Eco these days. But we've been using the HP Super, HP Ultra for ages.
About carbon build up. It's not all about the oil. The fuel you use has a lot to do with it to. Sparks plugs come out of cheap briggs lawn mower engines perfectly clean after a couple of years use with Moto4Plus. And come out of high end kawasaki professional engines like a black ragged sock well before maintenance is sheduled.
Thanks for the great comment added. Same here I have a lot of pro saws all I have ever used is stihl motomix in my 2 cycle engines and Stihl moto4 in all my 4 cycle small engines. Seems to work great engines are super clean. Not to mention on my saws I do clean them very well after I use them all day then resharpen the chains not to mention before I get started I let the saw warm up for a few minutes before jumping right in and cutting letting the cylinder warm up
@@st7650 on the carbureted models I’ve always adjusted the Low screw so that it puts out a bit of smoke on acceleration. Especially the T models. These days with Motronic you can’t fiddle or mess about. It just does it’s thing.
But there you have it in a nutshell: sharp chains, clean filters, great fuell, a bit of fun on start-up with the happy trigger and just let her sit and idle for a bit when the work is done.
Adhere to that and I’m pretty much out of a job. Gives me more time to fiddle with the 500i ;-)
Thanks for your comments
I want the best oil for my new 500i
In Australia you have access to Stihl 2-stroke oil that is JASO- FD rated. In the U.S. we do not have access to that same oil, which is a shame. The Stihl oil in the U.S. is not made by Castrol as far as I know. If it is, it is not labeled as such on the bottle. This is why this is such a hot issue on many U.S. based YT channels that deal with 2-stroke equipment like saws, string trimmers, etc.. Thanks for your video. It is always good to get a fresh perspective on this from someone outside the U.S..
Just got it last week
Ive mixed 40 to 1 for last 30 years
Never had a problem. Husqvarna oil
Think I will go 40:1 also
Hey mate, just a quick heads up, more oil = better ring seal and more horsepower all the way down to 16:1. This has been proven over and over and you can find the tests online. Less oil doesn’t = more power. Hope this helps
Thankyou for your comments
Huswarna Xp oil , Mottul 710 2t , sthil super hp , Huswarna ls+ 👍👍👍😉 ok oil
Good to hear about that maxima stuff. Got some for the Zenoah.
No idea what is best, but have been using Amsoil Sabre for many years and with the previous Amsoil labeled as 100:1 this use is 35+ years. I have been running it at 80:1 in chainsaws, weed trimmers, brush cutters and blowers. Never ever had a problem and engines still running great.
80:1 wow I had a Sachs 2 stoke bike they recommend 100:1
Using 93 octane helps make up that performance when using more oil or lower ratio
Yes 93 octane is all you need
The best part about the video is the comments, users with 40 years plus experience and many mechanics telling stories about carbon build up and many other interesting things about saws and the oil and mix ratio they use and why. The biggest complaints about Stihl ultra oil is from America not sure who is making the Stihl oil there. But I heard the Stihl ultra was made for the weed wackers the 4 mix ones. Not sure how long Stihl has been selling oil they don't make it. I have an bottle of the standard blue oil and it has castrol on the bottom. But keep the comments coming in makes great reading with people's experiences
The difference I have seen show up for comparing 40 t0 1 with 50 to 1 is for
the operating temperature of a saw that is being run hard during hot weather.
A saw can do fine with 50 to 1 in cold weather but will run excessively hot with
that leaner mix when being worked hard during hot summer weather. The saw
runs at a more normal temperature and does better with the richer oil mix when
being worked hard during hot summer weather. The mixture screws need to be
adjusted a bit richer for the 40 to 1 compared to 50 to 1. Seeing a seasonal
difference for that mix range, a good compromise is near the middle to split
the difference with 45 to 1 for when the weather outside is comfortable.
The oils that are multi-rated will generally be cleaner burning less smoky
than racing oils where the priority for racing oils is extreme duty lubrication
for short term racing use with not so much concern about clean burning.
So for a power tool that is going to have many hours long term use and
minimal maintenance wanted as a different priority from racing, then an
FD rated oil is logically a better choice than a racing oil. Haven't tried the
Maxima Premium 2 oil but see it is multi-rated good for everything. The
racing oils are generally unrated because they won't pass the emissions
requirements of the rated oils and were never intended for rated uses
but only for the specialized purpose of racing.
I just brought maxima formula K2 racing oil it like many others are now being used in chainsaws. I am aware of the jaso rating but it cost a lot of money to get certified and that's just for one oil and a yearly cost also and if that oil company produces say 12 different oils then the cost is 12 times and 12 yearly cost on each oil.
Even shell don't use jaso rating on all its oils.
If the oil companies were forced to use jaso ratings we could have a better choice.
I’m using Motorex 2T FD rating at 40:1 now as all my chainsaw’s have that much carbon buildup on them, it’s just unreal. I’ve only just started using the Motorex a few weeks ago at 40:1 and checking my plugs, cylinder tops and piston walls from exhaust side after each tank, just to see if I have enough lubricity on my parts. These components look great. Hopefully they will clean up a little without stripping them down?
This oil is the business!🙌🏻🔥
Stihl Ultra really is not a good oil the carbon build up in my FS76 was huge. In my saws, I like the motor cross oils. I think 45:1 is a good compromise and as you say it is a can of worms hopefully your video will help people to decide.
I will be using 45:1 now
I’ve run 42.5:1 now for a good while and I find it to be the happy medium between 32:1 and 50:1.
Stihl HP Ultra is excellent but only when mixed 50:1. There is nothing wrong with it and I have been using it for years. I own 3 blowers ( all Stihl), 3 trimmers (2 Stihl, 1 Echo) and 4 chainsaws (1 Stihl., 2 Dolmar and 1 Echo) and all have been running fine. People who are having issues with HP Ultra tend to run 40:1 or even 30:1 ratios which causes problems with excessive carbon buildup, clogged screens, etc. Recently, I switched to Castrol but only because I'm tired of Stihl's price gouging practices. These days they are on par with ultra high end motorcycle racing oils which is truly ridiculous.
Some of that motorcycle oil is over $40 litre
I had a fellow respond to one of my comments about which 2-cycle oils I run in my chainsaws. Telling me they were poor choices for chainsaws because they supposedly burned dirty, those being AMSOIL SABER, Interceptor, Dominator and VP-Racing. Trying to pass the old wives-tale off that because they were full synthetics and not semi-synthetics that they ran dirty. When I gave him facts about the JASO ratings and that three of the four were tested to run super clean in power equipment he never gave a response back. Which amused me. I try to follow the facts and not myths that some old-school users like to throw about because they dislike full synthetics.
The reason for 50:1 in modern power equipment isn't anything to do with performance, it's for emissions reasons. The less oil ran in your equipment the less carbon emissions are put out. It's all having to do with government smog regulations.
Every 2-cycle oil that is from a power equipment manufacturer or that is sold in the lawn & garden section of box stores will most always be rated JASO-FD. AMSOIL SABER is specifically engineered for power equipment so it is JASO-FD rated as well as VP-Racing. AMSOIL Interceptor isn't directly saying it's JASO-FD rated because its' main use is for snowmobiles, atvs, motorcycles and personal water craft. BUT, it also says (where API-TC & JASO-FD oils are specified.) which to me means (safe for use in hand-held power equipment).
AMSOIL Dominator being a race oil aimed for use in modern power-valve based engines is JASO-FB rated. Your Maxima oil is most likely also a JASO-FB rated oil because it's a competing product to AMSOIL Dominator. From what I read anything that's JASO-FB rated is still perfectly fine for use in chainsaws and hand-held power equipment. I mix all of my fuel at 40:1, it's a perfect spot because it's not too much and it's not too little.
The oils you mentioned are top choices why would anyone rag those choices. Like opening a tin of worms. But the comments are the best reading not the video. The comments are from real users with opinions. If to many pesky bad things about a product you need to listen. If only a few say bad things then I take no notice
@@ChainsawUsers It was because they were someone who believed in using the semi-synthetic oils. Trying to tell me you needed a 2-cycle oil that had a natural base like castor to run clean in a chainsaw. Which is a bunch of hooey.
I know AMSOIL like all brands wants you to buy their product. But their website is literally loaded with info trying to tell you how clean their oils burn.
On the info page for Interceptor they literally have a guarantee for how clean Interceptor burns. Stating that anyone who runs nothing but Interceptor in their recent year snowmobile is guaranteed a full engine replacement if their engine fails while using AMSOIL's product.
You'd figure if they're offering a guarantee like that you'll bet your butt they're selling you something that won't make your engine fail. Because just straight up giving free engine replacements in modern sleds are gonna be costly.
Also, if you want some extra piece of mind add some Marvels Mystery Oil to your base gasoline/petrol before adding your 2-cycle mix. It adds lubricity back into the fuel because modern fuel is very dry. A bottle says to measure about 1/2oz-1oz of MMO to 1gallon of fuel. :)
@Slane583 I wonder what the world champions in 2 stroke motor sports use in thier bikes am sure they use the best available Oils
@@ChainsawUsers I bet, they go with what works. One dirt bike channel I watch here on YT from time to time likes to run Putoline 2-cycle. But they're from England so Putoline isn't something you'll find here in the states. :)
Pretty much all the motorcyle 2 stroke oils are really good. K2 is great. Castor 927 another maxima product. Echo Red armor is by far and away the best from the saw manufacturers. 44:1 or 40:1 is definitely a better mix. Stihl ultra just not a good oil. If you run your stuff light duty probably won't be a major problem with stihl oil. But any kind of hard use or commercial use would just be foolish to use that stihl ultra. Most pros don't.
I was wondering about the castor oil 927 I think it also smells great. Have you used that before ?
@@ChainsawUsers I have. It does smell good. There are myths out there about it gumming up your saw. Not been my experience at all. Aaron Lynch does a tear down on a saw he's ran several years and only used that. Really clean. Check it out. But nothing wrong with that K2 either. Can run it without worry.
@Mightycaptain Thanks for the heads up on that. Been some bad reports on the Stihl Ultra oil in America. No one here complaining our oil here comes from Castrol as far as I know
@@ChainsawUsers could be that have different distribution and makers in different countries. Canada variety looks different to me. Ours is trash in the US. They obviously don’t make their own oil. Just brand it. But to avoid import etc. they may have someone else do it for your part of the world.
Very clean chainsaw. Hardly looks like it has been worked with.
🤪
Yes it's brand new only tested it in a few logs
Seems like all the problems with ultra are coming from the United States, in Europe they rave about the stuff, I am in Australia too and myself as well as everyone I know have had nothing but excellent results with it 🤷♂️
You are correct. In the U.S. we do not have access to the same Ultra oil that you have access to.
The variant sold here in the states is total garbage. Lots of claims of peoples equipment burning up while using it. The European version of something is always better than the version they sell here in the states.
I have had no problems also but hear mechanics complian during tear downs to much carbon ect
Castrol made oil for Stihl I have bottle with castrol on the bottom. Who in the states makes it for America
@@ChainsawUsers Castrol still makes oil for Stihl, it's the version in the orange bottles here. The stuff in the orange bottle is actually good.
But a lot of the time new equipment owners will get wrangled into some extended warranty BS by the dealer that Stihl offers. Something along the lines of if you buy an extended warranty you'll get a 6-pack of Stihl HP Ultra free.
The HP Ultra comes in a silver/gray bottle here in the states. I've read comments from people saying the HP Ultra stuff is so bad their equipment has lasted long enough to meet the extended warranty. Once their equipment crapped out they were out of warranty and no longer covered for repairs.
Castrol.makes stihl oil..but its not same as old bottles. Dont run it...
50-1 not bad on cylinder, but your bottom end might be dry.
We also hear about film tackiness the ability of the oil to cling to metal. It's a very interesting subject. I can only say I want the best protector my saws. Buy that's easy said and harder to know what is the best.
I run literally any oil 40:1 and don't have any issues.
Perfect oil for chainsaw
I like mobil1 racing 2T
Yes Mobil been around a long time
I hear husqvarna oil is good also
Husqvarna oil is made by ALCO
And Penrite @@ChainsawUsers STIHL premium by Castrol
I use Stihl HP Ultra in my saws at 40:1 and everything seems to work.
I do not understand how many people claim that one oil is better than the other.
Without scientific evidence it's a bit hard to make that claim.
Here we go, this never ends well. More oil = more ring seal = more power to certain extent. 32:1 should make more power than 50:1 all things being equal.
Whats the trade off? Oil does not cool the cylinder anywhere near as efficiently as fuel. This is the critical part that people don’t understand. Thats why all small 2 stroke equipment moved to 50:1. It’s not an environment, EPA thing. It is to help control the amount of heat.
Why 32:1 in a 250cc bike vs 50:1 in a chainsaw? A bike has better airflow, water cooling and a larger cylinder area to disperse heat.
I don’t know about the smaller containers here but 5 and 20 Litre drums of Stihl HP ultra are labeled made in Germany here. I don’t know by who but it is different to what they get in the US. I have used it, it’s fine. I have used a lot of other 2 stroke oil and all performed fine.
The people that engineered and built the saw know what’s best for it. Follow their recommendation not some shit you will read on the internet.
The vast majority of failures occur due to air leaks or the operator not adding il to the mix. I don’t think i have ever seen one fail due to poor quality oil, most are due to user error.
Interesting comments yes it gets talked about a lot but great reading for new people who just brought a saw and want more information. It makes great reading. We can all learn something.
@@ChainsawUsers If you want to play with different mix rates, go for it but try and follow the below and don't go to extremes.
M Tronic or 500i- will compensate it self to a degree.
Manual adjust carb - Tune it with a tach following the Stihl (or manufacturers )carb manual. It explains the process, much better than guessing by ear.
Non adjustable carbs ie. Ms170/180 etc. Don't. They can't compensate for the different mix. Stick with the 50:1 they run on the edge of lean at the best of times.
It maybe talked about to much that's because it's hard to really know what's is best mix and what oil is said to be the best and why ?
Yes jaso ratings help
@@ChainsawUsers How long do you expect before you need to open up the motor?
Realistically a ring in a chainsaw will have an excessive gap around the 150 hour mark. Most saws can run a tank of fuel between 12-18 minutes when running hard. Let's call it 20 minutes for simplicity.
3 tanks / hour. 150 hours. 450 tanks between pull downs.
Will a different oil brand or mix ratio significantly affect this? My experience says no. Most rebuilds occur due to seal failures or other air leaks and these occur more due to time than wear.
You hear lots of experience of people running "X" brand of oil and my saw lasted 20 years, It's the best!
Is that actually impressive if they ran 8-10 tanks per year through the saw?
@SawChainTheories my MS380 is 18 years old. I changed the coil carby and new head and piston. O seals so far.
Yep Richard flagg
Seen his videos also
Doesn’t oil have a higher energy density than gasoline?
Why does oil have high energy density?
It all boils down to the potential chemical energy. Oil is a very diverse mixture of a large amount of different hydrocarbons, from the simplest ones (methane), to very complex and heavy ones (bitumen, with 50-100x larger molecules than methane), and they all have a slightly different energy densities.
@@ChainsawUsers Would a fuel ratio at 25:1 have a higher energy density than a 50:1 mix?
Hmmm interesting point. Whilst long chain molecules like oils have a higher calorific value than petrol, you’d likely not see their benefits manifest as power in a typical chainsaw engine design, due to the speed of combustion. Too slow a combustion rate would see incomplete combustion of oils for the stroke and piston speed. Like diesel’s, I’d expect a long stroke and slow RPM/piston speed would be the key to extract energy, but as we know with diesels they get better thermal efficiency and higher torque but NOT power as power is the torque at speed and diesels just run out of puff at moderate RPM. Anyways, that’s my back of a Winnie’s packet hypothesis
@@mikewasowski1411 What if a higher octane fuel was used, 102~, for a longer and more complete burn?
@@PurpleNovemberit's not so much the higher energy content that makes more power with more oil, it's the better ring seal. This was consistently tested with motorbikes, chainsaws and down to 32:1 it kept making more power.
Dont use oil
Use Diesel. 40:1
No Smoke, more power.
I don't think so lol
Been using motul 710 full synthetic at 40.1 with 95 fuel ran about 12 tanks through my ms660 and there's no carbon build up on the exhaust port and the piston is like new still
Thanks for your input
50:1 will not produce more power, probably opposite - less power...
To my knowledge its all to do with emissions.
With 50:1 u will have good upped cilinder lubrication, but bottom end will suffer with low lubrication, and excessive wear...
Personally will never go over 40:1 mix ratio, regardless how good oil claims to be...
I always said its much cheaper extra spoon off oil, then engine rebuild...