BUDDHIST AND VEGAN ACTIVIST CLASH [HEATED DEBATE]
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- That escalated quickly...
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That escalated quickly...
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Joey Carbstrong what date are you in Liverpool, mate? I don't have any social media
Thank you Joey. When I meet people like him who claim to be concerned about plants' "suffering and death" I explain to them that carcasses of medium/big animals (e.g., cows, pigs, etc.) only feed a few hundreds of people, whereas the plants used by humans to fatten up one single animal throughout its fraction of life could feed tens of thousands of people.
This means that animal agriculture is inefficient and causes more "harm" to plants than vegan production does.
So if he's truly worried about plants welfare he should obviously go vegan and contribute to less plants' "suffering"!
Also, given his supposed "connection to the nature" it would have been worth to mention the environmental impacts of animal agriculture.
Once again, thank you for your outstanding street activism!
Stef Carrubba correct. Best Argument in this case! Well figured out. So:
1. plants don't suffer, as animals do, because they don't have a brain and CNS.
2. ...even, if they would, you would harm more plants by eating animals, because you need more plants to get meat (a cow f.ex. eats a lot more plants in weight to increase a bit of meat) .
And many thanx to you, Joey, for your Engagement! Great respect!
Sorry you had to deal with this idiot bro, spiritual people are the worst hypocrites along with religious people.
this debate on value is crazzzy they are both same
joey if you had a farm
whats worth more carrots or pigs (swine flesh was never allowed) they are both gods creation and MAN looks after them both equally and how you look after both and tend to both
tho Ground was cursed by GOD . adam then cain then flood and so on world is in degenerative state equally
You know joey’s getting mad when he starts saying “brother...”
No it means Joey is mad. Can you not read, brother?
Brother
I think he was getting uncomfortable because he's usually the one winning the debates
HAHA
@@usernamehere6061 lmao. Reading comprehension tho
y'all i'm a buddhist and i don't get buddhists who aren't vegan. ESPECIALLY in mahayana buddhism as he spoke of.
Exactly. My first time discovering veganism was when I was looking into Buddhism.
Veggie eaters and meat eaters are the same, they're both lost in their illusions of what they think life is.
Life is life, don't feel like you're better then any life form "plant" or "animal" when you see yourself as all life you live differently, eat different, drink differently.
@@narutofox4321 do you eat tortured animals ?
@@narutofox4321 veganism is about minimizing suffering/ harm .
Majority of crops are fed to animals so when you eat meat their are the bugs that suffer and the animals so double whammy .
Since I deprogrammed my mind from born again christianity I am not interested in signing up for any religion but Buddhism that I have read about in many books by Thich Naht Hahn seems like a gentle compassionate ideology . One of the tenants of the religion ( which is very different from Christianity ) is that you are supposed to challenge any of the ideas in Buddhism , even what the Buddha said , and this is something very mature I thought . We can make a better world but NOT if we just say suffering of others doesnt matter and do nothing .
Joey is challenging this supposed Buddhist to listen to his human heart and have empathy for others . I think that from what Ive read Buddhism does the same as it is full of compassion . Joey is talking about some pretty logical stuff . Not only should we expand our empathy to animals but also to humans . One dear child dies of starvation every 6 seconds . There is more than enough food to feed everyone on the planet but because of some humans greedy consumption of meat the poor animals who are living in hell eat that grain and corn etc. It is a systemic problem that we are trying to wake the world up to . It simple , its called sharing and caring . And also farming has changed drastically in the last 50 years and as a result of the billions of animals in factories not smaller farms the meat industry is one of the worst for environmental destruction to our mother earth , our live giving home . Im sure that if Buddhisn is worth its salt , it would encourage us to act in accordance with doing our part to not contribute to the suffering of animals , starving children and the earth itself . So as a tenant of Buddhism says to question everything I think that no Buddhist should be stuck in a Buddhist box but be always willing to look outside the box .
In China now they even have tiger farms where they exist in deplorable conditions so they can use their body parts for so called Chinese Medicines . Funny how the western worlds health is doing just fine without using tiger parts . In other words it is unnessary suffering . I then they have these horrible " ideas" that if they torture dogs to death it has more health benefits . Very outrageously selfish .
If the above scenarios are where this ideolgy that everything is just atoms and it doesnt matter if you torture animals or let children die ,
I'd say you need to get out of this brainwashed cult .
Exactly Cori
Even if plants felt the same amount of suffering as animals, eating meat would still cause more suffering because animals are secondary consumers, meaning that when you eat them you are eating an inneficient energy source and causing more suffering per calorie.
nope cause cows will eat more of plants, actually that should be my slogan now lets reduce suffering eating all animals so only is us and plants join today. XD
PD: yup this is bullshit from start, if suffering matters and plants suffer reduce animals that eat plants reduce suffering, and yup I'm not vegan so this suffering matter is something that i don't take in account at all.
@@camiloandresmartinezmonter228 ok but in a year, everyone would be vegan then lol
@Nixon Eli but you kill far more plants by eating meat lol
@Jorge M Pereira agree. This Joey guy is doing more harm than good for achieving more animal friendly world
Y consider a life to be less you idiot 😂
"So you have the same moral value as a potato?""Yes."I'm done.
I think he was talking about life is the same with people animals and plants
Buddha would prioritize animal life over a potato.
When an Indian king was about to perform an animal sacrifice with a goat , Buddha asked the king to spare the goat and to take himself (Buddha) as a sacrifice. This is a famous story in Buddhism.
Buddha's activism was responsible for ending animal and human sacrifice in India.
He is expressing the Buddhism worldview/philosophy. It is not based on the western enlightenment of reasoning. I noticed the western moral discourse on veganism is based on the food chain hierarchy, meat eaters would say humans are the top of the food chain, while vegans would say humans AND animals are the top of the food chain, while plants are at the bottom food chain for both vegans and meat eater. Thus they have no dignity, morality nor 'feelings'.
It is different with Buddhism - It is about treating every living things with respect and dignity (that's why he said even potato has 'moral values' & 'has spiritual feeling'). It is up to you if you choose to eat meat or plants or prolonged fasting. It about seeing everything around us as an ecosystem that are living and breathing - always be kind/humane to all living things, including the cow that you will slaughter as meat or the tree that bear apples in your garden.
Fundamentally, Buddhism is against animal-cruelty, environmental destruction and mass animal factory for the sake of profits. But Buddhists are not vegans. They eat what is given by others (including meat) and many of the devoted monks are vegetarians.
@@rageshvaikkatil4778 Religious traditional cultures to overshadow cruelty is an outdated excuse. religions such as hinduism turned to sacrificing a coconut instead as it like a goat has a hard shell like skull, hairy, features that may distinct it from other coconut such as size, markings, weight. From it comes the edible coconut as its flesh and milk as its blood all without harming a goat and far more humane and healthier as one of our 5 or 7 a day :-)
If we come to the realisation that everything is consciousness then by choosing to kill a living animal over a potato, one has actively prevented from giving the living animal (which had a greater possibility than a potato of making the same realisation [that everything is consciousness]) a chance whereas a potato cannot or might not ever come to this realisation while remaining as a potato. The potato may, in a later form, as a living animal come to the realisation that everything is consciousness.
Don't take this out of context while practicing Ahimsa:
Even the "intelligent" are confused in determining what is action and what is inaction. One who sees inaction in action and action in inaction, whose every endeavor is devoid of desire for sense gratification and is one for whom the reactions of work (actions, inaction and the decisions to promote This, etc) have been burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge, is one on the path of freedom from all of this.
All while bearing in mind the gradual cause and affects starting from:
1. Avidya - Ignorance of our true nature
2. Asmita - Egoism/error following ignorance
3. Raga - Attachments
4. Dvesha - Aversions
5. Abhinivesha - Fear/Anxiety
To eventual confusion, thus even the "intelligent" are confused in determining what is action and what is inaction, thus the cycle continues!
Potatoes are good :-) yum!
He's not a Buddhist.
A richtig B flsch non vegan hippies ccan be infuriating...
How come ? Because you don't like what he has to say? Fuck you.
Eric Anderson Lol, grow up. He's not a Buddhist because most of what he says isn't even Buddhism teachings. He's mashing beliefs, which is fine, but it's not Buddhism.
11 11 no you want to disregard him because he makes a good point. Good for you be vegan but don't judge and harass others because of there choices. I don't agree with factory farming, that's why I hunt all my own meat and fish. I don't support the factory farming industry at all not a cent. I grow my own garden and feed myself and my family with my own two hands. I have more respect and connection with my food, wild life and nature then you'll ever imagine. Contribute to wildlife and forest conservation more then any of you vegans. All you do is complain and bitch but don't actually do anything.
William Andersen I'm not justifying anything I don't feel bad for my choices, I feel I'm doing everything in my ability to eat properly and have the least impact as possible. I love what I do! It's funny how vegans are so self righteous and think there above everyone for eating veggies lmfao your mom probably thinks so highly of you!
The lengths people will go to, to continue their bad habits is astounding.
He said that Humans and non human animals have the same moral value of potatoes, rice and carrots. So basically this means that if you asked him what living thing he would rather save between a potato or a child, he would flip the coin. This man is rather profoundly confused or possessed by severe insanity.
Okay, but in a similar argument, if you were asked if you would rather save a dog or a child, you would also flip a coin?
I doubt Claudio would flip a coin to choose between a child and either a potato or a dog. The man in the video, on the other hand...
Okay, but if you would obviously save the child, isn't that 'speciesism'?
I agree. Vegans should own up to their speciesism. Sentience is a spectrum from inanimate to human. Obviously we have the highest level of consciousness and moral agency. Plants have no brain or nervous system. Bivalves like clams have no brains but attempt to escape danger. Insects are both individual and colony. Each individual insect is capable of very little reason or intellect. Animals are much more like humans without the moral agency.
We can quibble about where to draw the line, but refusing to draw a line anywhere is morally bankrupt.
Madeleine Miles In this extreme scenario where i am forced to make such a decision i would save the child, obviously assuming that the child will grow up to be a normal human being. Now the decision to save the child does not constitute speciesism because i am not proposing a different treatment based on species membership. In this scenario I am deciding which sentient being will live based on the level of sentience. So my decision to save the child is based on the fact that the child has more moral value than the dog because he will be in a position where he will be the subject of a higher level of sentience than the dog. If however because of some mental problems the child is going to live the rest of his life at the same level of sentience as the dog then at that point I would flip the coin because in that case the sentience and consequently the well being experienced either by the child or by the dog is the same.
No such thing as a Buddhist that is not vegan.
Padraic loingsigh the Buddhist temple here in Dallas has Sunday BBQ....
Come to Thailand to know them then.....
Vegan says "Stop animal suffering."
Buddhist says "Life is suffering."
Would you say that summed up the argument?
Sadly is that buddhist are not buddhist today. Today buddhism is a piece of shit like islam or christian or jews. The nearest are Jainism but they not all Vegan some of them drink milk but they dont eat eggs flesh etc and they dont eat vegetables from dirt
robin_the _asatruar to compare Buddhism to Islam is an uneducated statement
@@veganism_is_superior LOL your vegan EGO statement is just sad.
@@optivitanutrition lol?
@@optivitanutrition rofl
Buddism is vegan, just not everyone follows it properly. He is living in his convenient beliefs lol
Buddhism, if it's supposed to be a way of living that insists upon vegan ethics, is a very huge fail in the U.S....most Buddhists I've ever come across (and there have been many) are far from being vegan. Maybe I'm particularly unlucky to have come across those Buddhists that I have.
Louis Gedo. A shame to hear that. I am Mahayana Buddhist and Vegan.
Both are the same and are indistinguishable to me.
This bearded hippy is probably a Hare Krishna or a common hippy who has smoked waaaaay too much weed......NOT Mahayana Buddhist.
D H Tran
There are a bunch of different sects or practices of Buddhism from what I understand...yours may be the intellectually consistent one. Thank you for doing your part in helping those in need....particularly the non-human animals species.
Buddhism is not inherently vegan.
There's few stream of Buddhism. I think perhaps he's in Southern Buddhism, aren't the Northern Buddhism. Cheng-Yen Dharma Master is a follower of Northern one, and Thailand monks are Southern one.
People will literally use any excuse to justify their nonsense habits. Delusional.
@Tom Piper Beats Hate to break it to you, but we keep morality off the dunnertable. It isn't even part of the equation... Now fry me up some veal, sheep.
Man, I couldn't agree more... This guy habitually tells people what to think.
Veganism is doctorines of devils kjv 1timothy chapter 4vs 1-2-3.
@Tom Piper Beats Wanna have a BBQ?
Vegans would do well not to suck the life of things themselves! I eat mostly vegan. Non-vegan in certain s circumstances. However, I don't know it all. His idea that you must have a brain to feel pain is incorrect. Plants have been shown to avoid pain, and even to recognise an attacker. It is a mystery. Vegans do not have a patent on being right and this vegan is not happy because he is more focused on changing others and taking the high-ground.
When you mistake Buddhism for nihilism
They're intertwined actually
But Buddha was omnivore?
@@CharlesJoseph_MSc buddha was actually a vegan.
@@beingalive101 buddhism has nothing to do with nihilism.
@@ocean34560 that's lie, stop it dude. Buddha said you can eat meat, just don't eat snakes
He's using the "nothing matters" argument with which many "intelligent " carnists use, in an attempt to extrapolate things extremely nonsensically even though they clearly have moral values but just decide not to apply them to their diet
Jessica Akiwenzie - It's called the "Moral Relativism Argument"
Appeal to futility fallacy
i dont think this man really understands the concepts of buddhism. He talks about god, how we're all one thing... this is not buddhism. Giving this man the label of buddhist in your video title is unfair to buddhists. The majority of buddhists in our movement are vegan.
the man himself calls himself Buddhist, so that's why it's in the title, i think.
I thought he said he was trained by the Mahayana, that doesn't necessarily mean hes a Buddhist. i could be wrong i don't want to watch the whole video again. It just seems unfair to me. The majority of what he says has nothing to do with Buddhism, and i'm just concerned it will give people the wrong impression if they aren't familiar with true Buddhist philosophy. Somone has made up there own pseudo-semi-buddhist fantasy to justify harming living beings, and tarnishes teachings that are very important to a lot of people.
jack stephensonV
Why unfair when Buddhism doesn't exist
what do you mean exactly?
jack stephensonV
People argue over Buddhism but it doesn't exist. Religion is Fiction.
They were not having the same conversation. The bearded man used the Socratic view of rejecting what we perceive as "knowledge."
The vegan used an ecosystemic view; choosing to concentrate on what is in front of him.
This is why the conversation was impossible. One focused on the meaning of life, the other focused on life AS life.
What do you mean Socratic view of rejecting what we perceive as knowledge?
@@nvmffs for example he said "death isn't real, it's a state of mind".
Personally i think it's a pathetic cop out to avoid the question, lol.
@@hiderhip2174 Goes to show how small minded you are.
@@charlee6357 please explain
@@hiderhip2174 He didn't mean death isn't real he meant it's part of life and you can't have one without the other.
It is easy to make an empty and nonsense philosophy, when you are not the hunted and bleeding one and the one that is Hurt!
Really nice comment :)
What a truth!! damn...
Exactly!!! 👍
This is a really intelligent proclamation summing up what's wrong not only with the dude in the video but many people in our world today.
Really, good one!
I'm not human tho
My friend tho
Agreed.
No such thing as humans
@@adunnou2075 pfft, you actually believe in things?
Those who employ spiritual woowoo to justify their cruel habits are especially infuriating
How can you paint a uniform "morality" for life? Morality is your only argument, yet you think you're better or more important them a blade or grass? How? You're more connected to plants then these "animals" you're "morally" trying to save. How could you breath without plants? Half your lungs hang from the trees. What you exhale they inhale, and vise versa. Don't belittle what you just don't fully understand.
@@narutofox4321 have you seen pigs being gassed in a chamber? Have you heard there last screams of life?
@@narutofox4321 why have our ears not adapted to hear the frequency of grass screaming, If they do? We definitely evolved to hear the screams of animals in pain.
@@WackoMac they have, you just don't listen. Just because you (personally) haven't heard or felt the connection to plant doesn't mean it's not there. Meat eaters feel the same way about meat as you apperantly do about plants. I don't consume meat or dairy, not because of morality but by common sense. The more genetic memory a life form has the harder it is to breakdown. Plants by default have less genetic memory then meat.
Don't try and cover the entire existence under one human-created rule. Life was here before humanity stepped in, it'll be here long after we shed these vessels.
@@WackoMac do animals help you breath the way plants do? Half your lungs hand from the tree for goodness sakes hahaha, life is more then "morals"
He said he read about Buddhism for years, but he also said he has no religion, he never identified as a Buddhist, he just made an attempt to quote from the Buddha. I don't think it's fair to call him a Buddhist, he doesn't understand that philosophy very well.
exactly
All the religions are terrible anyway.
Correct, thank you. This comment section is painful to read...
he claims to be a high Buddhist yet rejects ahimsa, i dont understand
Neither does he.
Ham Bam ahimsa! ❤️🌎🌸
People will shape their gods after themselves, rather than the other way around. Many an invading soldier will tell you that they are christian, for example.
Know what, Mrs. Vegan? There are 2 types of Asian Buddhist. One which is Buddhist in practice & the other is just Buddhist in name. Most of the are latter.
The Dalai Lama eats meat. So there you go in terms of Buddhism and meat eating. Ultimate ahmisa = Jainism from what I have read of the texts.
You're problem Joey is you fight everyone, you need to relax and have an open mind... You here but you don't listen
Plants tho
spread peace what is sentient?
Meat tho
Facts and logic destroys carnist nonsense every time
J Krish - Jiddu Krishnamurti 👍
His higher spiritual states stop his logical and factual mind.
J Krish , I reject, on the grounds of logic, the notion that ethical veganism is a religion. I've never once, in my 26 years of activism, come across anyone who asserts that veganism is a religion, actually provide a sound explanation of why they believe that notion. What always happens is the person asserting such a notion commits one or more logical fallacies....especially the age old strawman.
Parminder Grewal
His 'higher spiritual states' is a crock of self-deluded bullshit. These spiritual types are seriously arrogant
Louis Gedo precisely.
“Potatoes and I are same and have same moral values” lol
A cucumber is a spiritual being.
The Roar Within xD yes brother
That guy in the white robe is fake deep lol! I get that a cucumber has value and COULD even have a spirit but to say vegetables have thoughts and feel pain is rediculous lool
And even if they DID we would still NEED to eat them, why would that make it okay to eat things that suffer when we DONT need to
Especially cucumbers.
RIGHTS for Cucumbers... and potatoes too!!!!!
Currently we don't believe it is... but who knows... in future... we may discover that it is....Don't be so certain!
Money tho
Strawman argument, his argument was, that we shouldn't involve money as a reason to make moral decisions on sentient beings, not that money is a bad economic concept.
Gotta get them stacks of cash
Thanks again Joey, your patience is almost infinite. Love your way to talk. ❤️
Keep it up Joey! Vegan for almost 4 months now! (So funny about the Hare Krishna part, as it's preaching non violence and being conscious. We practice it and in our temple you would never ever see any meat or eggs)
Im 16 and I know at least 5 people in my closer group of friends that are vegan or at least plant-based for health reason, now it's only easier for them to wake up and become an ethical vegan. The movement is growing!!
Everything is life... Ok then by eating no animal products you protect more plants... The one used to feed any animal for months. Eating straight the plants save life plants... Make sense?
GeGe Nomad check
mate
If everything is life then be that breatharian you ought to be, Buddhist wacko! ;)
TheFettuck its a bit more complicate, i'm saying that you're saving plants life by not eating meat. Meat means you must feed the animals for months, if i remenber well for 1kg of meat you need 7kg of plants, instead of eating straight the plants. So by being vegan you "save" 7 time more plants
TheFettuck yeah like meat eaters do, they also eat plant + they eat meat and like i said, eating meat means feed the animals for months with plants... So at the end eat meaters kill more plants......
TheFettuck stop saying only vegans kill plants dude, meat eater eat veggies too hey or they would have a really bad health.... And yes it matter of who is killing less.... If you admit that plants have same life as animal then by stoping meat you save way much more plants life by far.... it's just logic
This man is spitting fact. Life is Life, and death is death.
Veganism is just a natural extension of following Buddhist philosophy.
I don't think so
Buddhism is ultimately just another ideology used to justify immoral acts like violence and meat and dairy consumption.
From all the anti vegan arguments I hate "plants feel pain" the most
But it makes meatards look even dumber and is very easy to debunk but yeah its very annoying.
Animated Stock Footage y'all still haven't debunked anything
Space Jockey jelly fish don't have brains.
Space Jockey not all living things have the same parts. But they're still living beings. Living, breathing, reproducing, consuming, living beings, that die. Plants and animals alike.
Space Jockey well your argument for carrots not feeling pain is they don't have legs. What sense does that make?
You can be right without being rude, i’m all the way for veganism and vegans but dude let the man speak, give him a chance, LISTEN
I agree. That’s why I hate most people with this type of thinking because if you’re not going out there for an actual debate, then you’re just trying to argue while forcing your own morals down other people’s throats.
Some people just wont even stop for a moment to actually take it in and listen..
Choose Vegan mental gymnastics gotta keep going
Thats their tiny brain washed brains trying to fight against the truth.
Who are you referring to?
Mental gymnastics I was just gonna say. Some people keep doing backflips and contortions long after theyre cornered.
Hong Kong is a busy country. I don't really like Hong Kong people LOL. I was in Beijing, China for the International Music Festival 2006, and few Hong Kong orchestra teams came late, and straight perform, and then walk off like some kind of bullshit ass just after their performances, like 'who cares. You asked me to perform, alright, here I am and I'm off' It feels so arrogant and ego and there's no smiles at all on their face playing happy song. So, you know how stress it is to be able live in tiny house and stressful job in Hong Kong. Pity them
This reminds me of those times when you are desperately trying to have a rational conversation with your completely drunk-wasted friend😋
Absolutely 😅
Hi everybody reading this. I wanna make this as short, sweet and to the point as possible. Two months ago I became vegan basically because of Joey carbstrong and earthling Ed’s videos on RUclips as well as several documentaries they recommended that I watched (cowspiracy, dominion, and land of hope and glory). Now that I've realized the Atrocity that is animal agriculture and factory farming, I’ve decided to dedicate my whole life to the betterment of animals’ welfare, wellbeing, and freedom. So my overall plan right now is to emulate what Joey and Ed do in their videos and go to cities and downtown areas and share this message with people. I want to say something like “you can’t justify not being vegan… proove me wrong” on a cardboard cut out written in big letters! I’m writing this and commenting this on their videos in hopes of like minded people reading it and reaching out to me and wanting to talk and share our stories and our passion for animals and the betterment of the earth. I’ll be candid for a minute. My goal is to realistically meet others and meet up in person and be an actual activist and spread the message by doing a variation of what Joey and Ed are doing. If you’re interested, hit me up. My email is bseldridge95@gmail.com and my name is Brian. All the love in the universe to all you reading this
did you start a youtube channel doing this, because I don't see any content on your channel ? or was it just an idea that you never actually done but were inspired at the time ?
He’s no Buddhist, just a flake.
Ahimsa (IAST: ahiṃsā, Pāli:[1] avihiṃsā) means 'not to injure' and 'compassion' and refers to a key virtue in Indian religions.[2][3][4] The word is derived from the Sanskrit root hiṃs - to strike; hiṃsā is injury or harm, a-hiṃsā is the opposite of this, i.e. cause no injury, do no harm.[5][6] Ahimsa is also referred to as nonviolence, and it applies to all living beings-including all animals-in ancient Indian religions.[7]
AHIMSA is one of the cardinal virtues[3] and an important tenet of Jainism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. Ahimsa is a multidimensional concept,[8] inspired by the premise that all living beings have the spark of the divine spiritual energy; therefore, to hurt another being is to hurt oneself. Ahimsa has also been related to the notion that any violence has karmic consequences. While ancient scholars of Hinduism pioneered and over time perfected the principles of Ahimsa, the concept reached an extraordinary status in the ethical philosophy of Jainism.[3][9] Most popularly, Mahatma Gandhi strongly believed in the principle of ahimsa.[10]
Ahimsa's precept of 'cause no injury' includes one's deeds, words, and thoughts.[11][12] Classical literature of Hinduism such as Mahabharata and Ramayana, as well as modern scholars[13] debate principles of Ahimsa when one is faced with war and situations requiring self-defence. The historic literature from India and modern discussions have contributed to theories of Just War, and theories of appropriate self-defence.[14]
Tina Eye
Ahimsa is cool, but nobody needs religion 2 know dat
Giulio Boobzilla
Not living life based on ahimsa is the cause for reincarnation in lower realms like animals, hells, according to indian religions.
This is where non-violenece is also related to religion.
Surendra Sharma
Can b true but I don't believe in all dis
I noticed it at first second. It’s a hippie. I’m into self development and consciousness growing and I better not define myself maybe vegan on progress but honestly there are so many messed up people. They affirm something that comes out from the, but are not capable to agree or dialogue with valid arguments.
Interpretation of Hindu ancient religious texts differ greatly in their notion of reincarnation in lower relam like animals . These texts don't conform this notion of reincarnation in lower realms. Holy Vedas teach that souls of all men, birds, beasts and insects have the same divine lustre. None is devoid of celestial radiance. All men, birds and beasts originate from the same Supreme Being who is kind Father of all His children.
Let our hearts be
In equality and unity.
- Rig Veda 10/191/4
Vedas adhere to equality notion no matter whether one is animal or human beings. Animal, plant and human begins all are equal. It's the opinion of human beings that they have greater than animals or plants. It's very hard to believe it also it's very foolish philosophy that human beings are greater in morality and ethics In contrast to that we hold the least morality in food chain
Also It's very difficult to grasp who is God and how it like. Vedas only tell God is beyond the perception/sense of human beings and if someone go any further in search of God then that would only go in the direction of infinity that is why we must think for this world only not for afterlife . Apply logic and go for logic, and don't be enslave to your senses.
I am a vegan, but much of what this Buddhist man stated (though poorly) I agree with. Plants have life, animals have life, and just because of our limited perception to understand the suffering of other life - primarily plant life - does not mean they do not "feel". Just as our knowledge of a god not existing does not mean we may claim a god truly does not exist.
TheFettuck You are insinuating that I shouldn’t be vegan because I am questioning this? 😅 “Hey, don’t prevent the suffering of animals because you are questioning things within your life. Remain static!” Friend, just sharing a thought and what resonates with me.
TheFettuck also its a fact that trees feel pain and plants breathe in their own way, they are living lifeforms
True, plants are a form of life and might feel pain.
Yet they lack a central nervous system. Sth. that's by our understanding of the world is a necessity of being able to feel pain.
Maybe one day we'll find out they actually do. But until we have a scientific provable idea about this we can suspect that they do not feel pain. Although we do not know for sure.
If we want to avoid suffering as good as possible eating plants directly is the answer either way, since animals need to eat plants as well.
"Everything is matter" wow what a profound piece of knowledge there...
Unfortunately there is a hard problem of matter. Consciousness is. Matter is a bizarre phenomena
What' I would say to him is even if plants suffer then we should still eat plants because less plants are used if we eat them directly. Think that would change his mind
I think this guys tryin to say the Force flows through everything, but even Chewy knows its not ok to eat Porgs. :)
Billy G. Lol I loved that scene there are so many vegan messages Daisy Ridley is vegan also it showed a grumpy man milking a suffering animal and lots of other things
Virtue signalling shit show of a film.
"Everything has a life"...deep, the way he explains it. Respect for this guy.
You're joking.
This guy is fundamentally true to dhamma
Its true what he's saying but plants have no biological need to feel pain or to be consciously aware from an evolutionary prospective (it's essentially unconscious intelligence). So basically if you were a plant, you wouldn't know you're alive.
Love this guy's way of thinking
@@Joshbfil0 hi do you have any good links or resources to dhamma? I want to learn more
This guy has smoked waaaaaaaaaaaay too much weed and at this point he doesn't know what's up and what's down anymore
Rick C-137, XD Oh my God man that got me really good!
Thats not weed thats guilt. I have heard all the excuses. It all comes down to the defense mechanisms which emerge when you try to take away their food drugs ( meat dairy and eggs). They know deep down its fucking evil so their ego explodes.
Please don’t blame a lovely plant for a brainless humans responses. 😂
I'm pretty sure it wasn't weed.
Vegetarian i get i understand that. Not eating Dairy and Drinking no Milk is mental. God himself told us to hold cettle and use their Product. Eating Meat Not to eat Meat is a Choice. Eating only fish is a Choice. Not using Dairy is just plain stupid. They dont Need all that they Produce even if u leave a cow its kids it still has an overabundance of milk. Why Not use it
I like how you kept eye contact and stayed in control of the conversation without getting too irritated 👍
He was totally irritated, but yeah controlled his actions
Joey kept his composure in this video
With some edits it could pass for comedy.
the irony is he thinks he's connected but hes waaay not here lol
I want to die after watching this video! I didn't know that there is people like this!! Jesus Christ!
Broadway Kanobi Ave come to Texas. They're everywhere. Praise Jesus! Lolololol
this is maybe one of the best debates I have seen in my life
Agreed
Joey would fit amazingly in working at customer service, he has already heard so much crap that there's nothing that could possibly surprise him anymore :D
But please don't do it, you're doing an amazing job
mikaylaa I disagree. Joey needs to learn how to listen. He interrupts, finishes sentences and has his next argument lined up and ready to go. Every single person he meets, he does this. He is the worst fit for customer service, he just doesn't know how to pause and listen.
I think u mean Joey is the one who says all that crap 🙃
mikaylaa I kind of don't want him working in customer service LOL! I'd like to see Earthling Ed in customer service though haha.
I dont have moral value over a potato
I love how the buddist dude turned your argument on your head 😂
So much irony in this video. 😂
this man isnt a buddhist. he doesnt even understand the concept of shunyata but he sure was trying to make it sound like he did. any one who actually has studied buddhism can pick up on the details and its very clear he doesnt get it. emptiness points to reality and reality points to emptiness. this man was ignoring reality and only using emptiness are his argument
The "buddist" is dumb as fuck XD he thinks slitting a throat of a puppy dog is the same as cutting up a carrot XD
The man is not Buddhist. He’s mixing his own personal interpretation and views.
@@dharmaram7527 exactly. he says he studied a high high 'mahayana'. what does that even mean. mahayana is one of the branches of buddhism. is he zen? pure land? all of the chan practitioners i know of personally from dharma drum mountain are vegan. love master shen yen.
"Death is an idea [tho]."
Judge: "You are hereby charged of murder for killing that innocent old lady..."
Defendant: "Death is just an idea tho"
Judge: "My god...you're right. You're free to go."
@@sbeast64 You place a judge over a cosmic truth? You have a long way to go young fellow.
He does not seem to have really thought about not harming others in depth..... What he is saying contradicts itself so much.
-K
This guy has simply taken too many drugs :/
I love this guy's way of thinking. Very open very inclusive. We should respect everything, even your potatoes. You shouldn't waste it, compost it where possible not play with it, pluck it from the ground with compassion. I get this philosophy and I think the more of us that thought like this and lived simplistically, the better the earth would be, in comparison to everybody calling themselves vegan, endulging in greed and chasing material still and finding more specific reasons over time to distinguish themselves from one another. We all need to open up our minds and love more. Being vegan doesn't mean universal love. You can take a life and love. A potatoe is not sentient. But it is a life, has life force, nutrition energy and value. You consume that to become a bigger part of you because you deem your value above it. Which isn't wrong and isn't right. We all need to be open minded and as detached from things as much as possible and think about transference of energy. Thinking like this guy will give you a much better connection with life then thinking like a vegan. Not too say the two can't co exist. Think about that. Love to everyone
There is no reason to give value to a potato, as it isn't sentient and cannot feel pain. What you're speaking of is pure spiritualism, whereas veganism fights very real and physically existing problem of animal suffering.
@@fahrenheigh You've missed the whole message. It probably wasn't for you.
Broccolis think tho
Broccolis fall in love tho
hehehe
he's implying a broccoli beat him in a game of chess or something
AtomicBass , broccoli the chess master THO. ;)
There are many times in my life when I come to a crossroads and I think, "what would broccoli do?"
The Dali Lama eats veal so I'm not surprised at too much any more. But I really had no idea that spuds were sentient.
ORIGINAL Lone Wolf Vegan Warrior The Dalai Lama is the Tibetan Sect of Mahayana Buddhism. He does not represent the mainstream Mahayana Buddhist practice of East Asia. Mainstream Mahayana Buddhist practice is only found in China, Taiwan, Korea and Vietnam. Veganism amongst these Buddhist monastic and lay communities is normal and has been around for centuries.
D H Tran . I am a Buddhist vegan and having big troubles convincing Buddhist monks, nuns and followers to progress from vegetarianism (only avoid meat) to veganism which means avoiding using all animal products: meat, dairy, eggs, honey, wool, fur, leather, silk, cosmetics/shampoos or household chemicals/detergents tested on animals, animals used for entertaining/sport, etc. All animal products involve rape, mutilation, exploitation, abuse, torture and horrific, brutal killing. Vegetarianism is not compassionate enough, veganism is. Please help spreading the message, it is time for Buddhists and all humans to progress to veganism to save animals, your health and the planet. Live compassionately and end cruelty.
Does he? And if spuds are sentient then I am fecked...some Irish stereotypes are true
"Plants have fee-feez! Therefore, I don't see a moral difference between pruning a flower and skinning a dog alive"
So sick of that excuse.
Your dumb.
@@charlessimpson8661 ¬ Ah! Great argument. I'm completely convinced by your persuasive way with words.
@@Corvid_Moon lmfao
Brother. Brother. Brother. I wasn't arguing brother.
@@charlessimpson8661 ¬ Also, you misspelled "you're".
I see where he is coming from..
Every living thing is spiritually connected and that's what makes us (everything living) equal
Everything has a spirit and a soul therefore everything should be treated equally, and I think that's kinda what he was saying
He isn't a buddhist. In the beginning he said he follow no religion. It is just a confused man. Please change the title.
Ritter kreuz Buddhism isnt necessarily considered a religion by all practising Buddhists
Bananas in Pyjamas it is one. buddha himself said it.
Ritter kreuz but it is often widely viewed as a philosophy by Buddhists. I know this to be true. Bye bye
true, common misconception.
Ritter kreuz in your opinion
"Do you think rice has feelings?" LMAO
@The Truth "Dead just like amimal flesh after you kill it." Dead JUST LIKE THIS FUNNY ARGUMENT. Animals rice dumb arguments ALL DEAD. Gastrointestinal Nihilism!
I don't understand when people justify killing animals with "plants have lives too" or "same with killing plants", if people can justify killing animals because we kill plants too, can murders justify murder because we kill animals too??
TheFettuck killing animals is only justified in survival situation
The killing of humans is justified when the killing of animals is also justified
#AmIRight
TheFettuck what if I am a racist and I see different colour of people as different species? So can I justify killing people of different colour than me because I see them as different species?
TheFettuck “the killing of other species is always justified” what about killing dogs cats dolphins rabbits etc?
TheFettuck funny how that’s exactly what you do, treating dogs and cats and other “pets” with love while cows pigs chickens are worth nothing
His experience of unity is just ideas if he lacks empathy.
What he does not understand about "Every life is same" is that if he boils a pig alive, one day he will be born as that same exact pig and his former human self will be boiling alive his new pig self.
He is right all live matters the same. We Dont die er get reborn in a new life. Respect life. Know what your Food is Doing for you and nothing is wrong. Just dont Take Food for granted be thankfull to the animals or plants you eat. If you Take Milk Feed your cow well and it will gladly give you more
As a buddhist, I am upset that this man is giving false representation of buddhist ethics. Yes, all life is interconnected. But, there is a line drawn in Buddhism between sentient beings and plants.
All sentient beings are reborn in the cycle of existence which is perpetuated by our karma (the results of actions of body, speech and mind). Harming any living being creates negative karma.
All sentient beings suffer.
When we cause suffering we create the causes and conditions for our own suffering to continue and increase.
Exactly
I’m eating crisps while I watch this , now I realise I’m a potato murderer!! 😳😂
Love you Joey, your patience is commendable
eating a potato is immoral wtf
yo, remember guys there is a difference between calling yourself a Buddhist and being a practicing Buddhist.
If he would be a Buddhist there would be no clash!!
Funny how now you are the one trying to justify your beliefs. Energy consumes energy basic fact. Plants are living too and just because they do not exist in the same way other beings do you assign the ideas of a brain, sentience and pain as justification. You do not define what you believe pain to be so when a plan grows away from something that is damaging it or causing harm is that not a response to pain? Conversely when we receive a signal to our brain from our nervous system is that not a response to harm? These things are interchangeable but we are so concerned with what we experience that we use it in this case to set an idea of morality.
You should count yourself lucky also that we have a hard working dedicated industry of people commited to producing the food you eat as I'm sure you may find things very different if you had to fend for yourself.
I also notice that you constantly use words with shock value to try to impose yourself on those you talk at. Throwing words like murder, rape, stabbing etc is not helping the debate just fueling an already overly aggressive discourse. Please take the time and have the respect to listen to those you choose to debate. Finally also be considerate/empathetic enough to realise that being stopped in the street and having a microphone shoved in you face by someone with a lot of time to think and plan there point of view is not the easiest situation to formulate and deliver you own point back to. It does not show that you win the debate only that you force an unfair situation on someone who is not as prepared as yourself and just trying to go about their normal day. Find a worth advocate and arrange to sit down with a level playing field to debate.
Even if you consider plants being a living thing, its still more ethical to cut out animal agriculute because it takes 16kg of plant and grain to make 1kg of animal meat. Animals inturn are being bred on a mass scale and consume far more plants in a year than there would be if the whole world went vegan on a 16/1 ratio
More good still comes out of that life style. And to me as a Vegan also, Veganism doesnt necesarily mean cutting out meat 100%, I completely am for those of necessity and survival but for those that have that choice is why wouldn't you want to?
I don't believe the ethics are that simple at all and ethics are not a fixed notion in any case.
It may take 16kg plant/grain to produce 1kg of meat but how much plant/grain do you need to eat to get the same nutrition as 1kg of meat? There is a reason carnivorous animals lay around most the day and herbivores are constantly grazing. Now as for the animal feed itself, is it all grown just for the purpose of animal feed or is a large amount waste produce from the production of our food process?
Now, what about the ethics of shipping grains, nuts, fruit and vege from all far-flung corners of the world to support the nutritional needs of a vegan diet. How about the huge amounts of water to produce the almonds? Soy phytoestrogen? Avacado and the violent gangs in Mexico, Quinoa effects on Peru etc, Cashew burns? Waste from organic farming and the extra land needed to produce organic produce?
Simply put nothing is so straightforward and our ideas of ethics change with our learning. Veganism is a choice and not one to be forced upon others by telling them they are unethical or taking a moral high ground.
I 100% agree that he never wins these arguments he says he has. Blurting his point out at random people just minding their own business then being pissy cause they don't have the same opinion, I can't stand him. It really doesn't matter if I agree with veganism or not because I wouldn't want to associate with this guy either way.
" how much plant/grain do you need to eat to get the same nutrition as 1kg of meat?"
Ohh that was smart... 0,7kg of tofu, and what ull say for this? Whats ur next excuse?
"what about the ethics of shipping grains, nuts, fruit and vege from all far-flung corners of the world" Whats about tons of shipping grains for animals and meat from all far-flung corners of the world?
What your point, kid, u became some ecoterrorist, just to excuse ur taste habbits, or what? Now the grain shipment polution, become so important for u?
Ecoterrorist? Why, for trying to highlight the fact all forms of food production have issues. You don't even know my personal choices as I am only trying to engage in an adult debate and explore all facts.
Unfortunately simplistic answer to how much tofu would provide the same nutrition as meat is vague at best. What meat are you comparing it to, what nutrition protein, carbs, iron, vitamins.
What ever your point let's try to be civilised in this debate so we can all take something from it rather than resort to name calling and sarcasm.
I am a Buddhist but i haven't seen any teaching on killing animals for food anywhere .
Close debate, I'd say the bearded guy was more versed in debate
like the lord buddha once said, "Be kind to all creatures,this is the true religion" 😃😊peace and love to all beings!
How did you maintain your level of patience? I have no time for pseudoscience
He is woke, but lost, at the same time :|
fried from LSD
I think he woke up into another dream.
Abraham Dean Well, he does seem more conscious than the vegans I've been seeing lol. More than Joey, that's for sure...
Spirit-world power, mate.
Are you always abusive mate? I think you need to drop a few tabs an feel the love.
so are vegan brain washed by other vegans or something? I would say the majority of meat eating is from processed meats, always on tv being programmed into your brain as a nice good time i would say thats brainwashing, you cant even walk two minutes without that big M staring at you.
"No religion..."
"High Buddhist."
OneMaiKi Buddhism ☸️ is seen by many to not be a religion. It could be a philosophy, a way of life. However, it depends on who you ask. Please be careful as some Buddhists may get upset if you refer to their practices as a mere philosophy or even “just” a way of life. I consider myself a Buddhist and (mainly) vegan. I am meat-free, although I did eat something that had fish in it last night (I didn’t read the ingredients before squirting it)...
@@victoriasalter1701 "Please be careful"? Pff..If these Buddhist get upset by such puny semantics than they've really not earned the title of Buddhist yet :)
@@lobovutare true
Why do I feel like this guy was lying about being a buddhist? Why do people try to make themselves look better than they actually are? Thanks for all the work you do with animals Joey! Keep up the great work!
Goddamn Joey... you're a bloody hero!
Listening to this guy was f*cking exhausting! To use spirituality as an excuse to exert power and abuse others is just sickening.
You're so right
Religious and spiritual people are the fucking worst hypocrites.
Wayward Winchester . The 'pretending to be' religious and spiritual ones are hypocrites as their actions and preachings contradict. Vegetarianism is not compassionate enough; veganism is.
There are plenty of studies that show plants are able detect when there getting cut as well as surrounding plants. They literally scream when gettting cut 😱
Meanwhile everybody else just went to work.
He’s not wrong or bad, but I wouldn’t call him a Buddhist. He isn’t religious, but more spiritual if you ask me. From what I can conclude, he believes in Biocentrism and Pantheism, everything in this universe is one living consciousness and everything has equal importance. That is his peaceful belief and practice and we need to respect it. Just because he has his own idealogy, and he doesn’t agree with Veganism, and feels the cycle of life is natural, doesn’t mean you have to attack his person and call him a hypocrite. Funny how so many Buddhists are cursing at him when Buddhism teaches you peace and not harvesting hate towards others.
Buddhist... a total spacer more like.
That's not really true. Mattheu Ricard is doing so much for the vegan movement.
Marie Mai
You haven't grasped what dombower had written. He didn't criticize Buddhists or Buddhism, but doubted that guy in the discussion to be a buddhist but rather a spaced out Freak.
I have deep appreciation for the activities of Matthieu Ricard, a wonderful representative of the Khyentse Lineage.
May all sentient beings actualize complete satisfactoriness and be fully content.
Care to point out why?
Urgence Pc
asking that why ?
Far out, man! 😆🤦🏻♀️😆
"this all evolved from the unsatisfied mind" epic
So true
In today's words - greed. Greed and ego.
Let me summarise it for you, long story short: Joey is calling him out for being a hypocrite for being ok with eating conventional meats like pork/chicken/beef, but not a dog. And he is calling Joey out for being a hypocrite for advocating animal safety but eating vegetables, because he believes vegetables are conscious living beings as well. There you have it, 2 different views.
The man’s view is complete bullshit.
This is certainly not a question of belief in my opinion. What the so-called "Buddhist" just did was to deny proven facts, to continue eating animal products.
Plans. Do. Not. Feel. Pain.
All living organisms are sentient beings. Consciousness doesn't exist inside a brain because like the good man said "EVERYTHING IS LIFE"
Joey it's so impressive how calm you can stay with people like this man. As soon as you make a point that what they're saying is self-contradictory, they go on to say 'that's not the point'. It absolutely is the point, it's proving how inconsistent your argument is. Seriously, well done!
It's frustrating that these buddhists are spouting misinformation about what buddhism really is. These are not accurate representations of the religion/philosophy.
It's scary he believed he actually made sense.
Reginald Finley it's scary that you couldn't understand what he was saying. If you ever learned about Taoism or Buddhism you would understand what he was saying and he is correct this vegan fucktard on the other hand is being just as ignorant as he claims people who eat meat are.
Yes the vegan was but the buddist was great
Reginald Finley Which one?
It's worse arguing with stubborn logically impaired people and I don't mean that as a convulated way to call them stupid.
Well thats my comedy for the xmas day, another who wants to defend plants over animals. Well why not attack those who spray plants with pesticides
Two different levels of awareness here, that bearded dude schooled him n had the patience not to repeat himself when the vegan couldnt comprehend his point, bravo
The guy had a different way of thinking yes, but plants do not scream out in pain, spurt hot blood from their arteries, thrash about and have the life leave their eyes when you chop them up. If you think a potato should have the same rights as a human or dog then you are definitely lying to yourself. That was the only excuse he had and stuck with it to be deliberately obtuse. There is violence and there is nonviolence. It’s plain and simple.
Why have our ears evolved to hear the frequency of animal screams and not the frequency of plants screams, if they do?
I admire your patience joey, i probably would have lost my cool with this guy..
How can he eat anything then when he says EVERYTHING suffers and feels pain ..??
Get over the suffering and put food in your mouth.
Hopefully some bacon
Joey you were amazing... I could not continue the conversation after 5 minutes if I wanted to.... his views is hilarious and scary at the same time.
I think the same about Joey's views... That's why we'll never live in a vegan world. Too many different points of view and everyone thinks their's is the right one.
Vegan views are scary too. They may be making our species extinct.
Joey "This is vegan food. No animals. You know vegan?"
Man "Yes, I used to be vegetarian."
I don't get why vegans try to convince others to not eat meat. But when the other side is trying to give there valid point. The vegan begins to criticize and disrespect the other. I just lost 25 brain cells
One of these men is intelligent and has some fantastic points to discuss calmly.
The other is an absolute throbber with a closed one minded point of view.
I’ll let you decide which is which.
Everything is Life!! ❤️❤️❤️
Living in harmony shouldn't include pesticides that start the death of a food chain....pastured animals live in harmony with the food chain....
Compassion and respect to all life... makes sense as all life is linked in the common tree of evolution
When the naturalist is more radical than a vegan.🤭😂🤣😂🤣🤭
Lol that's funny!
There may be no death of the spirit or soul, but there is most certainly and obviously,the reality of physical death.