Four years and countless speed videos later and this is still by far the greatest video on disc speed available. Amazing job; hope this channel gets a revival as this is still invaluable into for new players like me! Thank you!
I am a year late to this party, but as a fledgling noob, I gotta start somewhere for answers to the most obvious questions... THIS RESOURCE IS GREAT. SUBBED. Thanks for the easy to understand tutorials.
I'd love for the glide portion of this series to talk a little bit about the relationship between a disc's glide rating and wind, specifically how to choose discs which are good in headwind/tailwind situations based on their glide rating. Thanks for the great videos!
Please make a video about snap. I have a bum shoulder which keeps me from throwing discs very hard. I'd like to learn how to use snap to possibly make up for that.
You didn't put the links in the description. So here they are: Bradley Walker: More Snap - Part 1: ruclips.net/video/qGGYsSUGKXk/видео.html More Snap - Part 2: ruclips.net/video/QhM6XMxlErk/видео.html Closed shoulder snap drill: ruclips.net/video/LffYBb1vQjQ/видео.html I like that you addressed the MVP overmolding process - but you didn't cover it fully. The Tesla is NOT the longest disc available - and for a few reasons. Firstly, the rim-width of the Tesla is only 20mm, so it cannot possibly fly as far as a disc with a 24mm wing. Secondly, MVP have a very strong preference for flat-top discs, without any sort of dome at all, and this reduces the glide rating of a disc, while fractionally increasing air-speed, and reducing drag. For distance throws, you need lots of glide. You partially addressed the issue with MVP - and it boils down to: THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. You can add more weight to the rim, but the overall angular momentum of the disc will not change, so the disc will spin more slowly for the same energy. This negates much of the positive spin (no pun intended) which MVP put out. I do believe it is beneficial to have the extra weight at the rim, so that the gyroscopic stability is enhanced somewhat, but there's no extra energy appearing magically from somewhere, to propel the disc further. This is the reason a 25mm wing MVP (if they ever produce one) will not fly further than a similar driver from Latitude 64, for the same energy input. HOWEVER! If you can learn to apply more snap, THEN (and only then) will you reap the rewards of an MVP disc. BUT, this would also mean you could apply even more spin to a non-gyro disc... It all comes down to players understanding the flight paths of their discs at various hyzer and nose angles, accounting for wind - and there is no magic in an MVP disc. They ARE very good discs indeed - but mainly because MVP are specialist overmolders with great experience in plastic overmolding. For my money, right now, no one is making better drivers than Latitude64/Westside. They actually machine the flashing off the lower corner of the leading edge, and this is easily discernible by anyone who cares to look. You will feel the spot where the machining overlaps - something which will never ever appear on a disc straight out of a mold, as they are spun on lathes, and must be perfectly circular.
+Chris Davies They put a link to their webpage where they have the links to the videos. However they linked to "Average Disc Golf - Excellent Snap Video" and the More Snap videos you linked are far superior to that. +1 for Bradley Walker instead of ADG
I have noticed that the manufacturers determine the speed of the drivers based on the metric measurement of the rim. So the speed equals the size of the rim minus one centimeter. So a 14 speed disc will have a 2.4 centimeter rim or a 24 millimeter rim
I hear the pros talk about spin rate 26.5 rpm and also forward motion up to 60+ mph at release. What is the relationship of spin vs forward motion with distance, and do people actually try to improve one or the other with different moves/drills, or do spin and forward velocity both naturally increase together as technique improves?
Would really have loved to see some sort of guideline on what speed means. How fast is an innova destroyer or boss meant to be thrown? 50mph? 60? Vibram prints speeds in mph on their disc, but they don't have any consistency with other brands.
I am curious if disc manufacturers will be able to use more of a precise "robot" of sort that can truly measure speed and other flight characteristics like they do for golf balls.
I have a general question for you. I watched many of these videos on one recently it was comparing forehand to backhand disc speeds and torque etc.. One of the examples it showed said that to throw a disc 300 feet backhand the disc had to leave the throwers hand around 54 mph. So my question is, without a specific disc being discussed how can you generalize that statement? So a 7 speed leopard 3 thrown at 54 mph with other factors being equal will fly around 300 feet and so will a wraith or boss at that same speed? I thought the whole point of disc speed ratings was to help determine disc speed for your particular arm speed, so a player with slower arm speed may find a 9 speed disc like a Valkyrie flies much better and more predictably than a 12 speed destroyer. I always wanted to know specifically each disc speed rating ## and how it equates to actual mph and rpm. There are lots of other factors but in general a 5 speed disc needs less speed out of the hand to fly according to its design and intended flight than a 10 speed disc and so on. It would be nice to know what speed a disc expected itself to be thrown and then having a good way to gauge your own arm speed to determine your capabilities prior to buying discs, so if you find that you can throw a disc 42 mph only thats it, you can then look for your speed range in discs that will fly well then thrown 42 mph. Do you get what I am trying to decipher? Thanks for all the great videos, I love your stuff, very informative.
Hi Matt! Wow, that's a lot to "un-pack"! We are working on a new video now that shows the relationship between disc Speed ratings and release velocities, as well as spin RPM. Rather than typing a couple of pages here, I'll work to get the video out for you ASAP!
Ok, I appreciate your time for reading my question and hopefully a new video can help clear up any confusion on my part. It just seemed that the speed necessary for throwing a 7 speed fairway driver 300 feet probably isnt the same as throwing a 12 speed destroyer 300 feet.
mornius1 yes that is true. which is why most people you are who throw MVP do not use the mac weight disc unlike you see with Innova or other manufacturers. I myself throw all MVP discs but another faster than a mid I have to use a disc between 160 and 170 grams depending on the speed of the disc. the only discs that I may have as mac weight are my windy day discs. I have noticed as well do to the over mold their light weight discs fade much harder then the heavier discs because they only make the core of the disc lighter and leave the over mold at normal weight
I would like to hear some more argumentation of why high speed discs would have more mass farther away from the center. This is my thinking: Let's compare a putter and a driver. Both are the same weight and made of the same plastic with same density. I also assume that both of the discs flight plates are of the same thickness. (I don't know if that's really the case or is there some significant differences between the flight plate thickness) Also, both discs are of the same diameter. If the flight plates are of the same thickness and density, the placement of the weight on the rim determines the moment of inertia. The putter has a narrow and a high rim, as the driver has a wide and low rim. So, the mass of the rim is actually closer to the center in a DRIVER. This means that the moment of inertia is actually higher in a PUTTER.
So wouldn't MVP/Axiom discs act as a higher speed disc than ones from other companies with the same rim width? Thus you would get a higher speed disc with a smaller/more comfortable grip?
RockCh4lk They wouldn't be faster per say. The discs with a smaller rim size would theoretically spin longer than a disc of the same rim size without the overmold.
I would agree with this considering speed as a rating is more descriptive of how fast a disc need be thrown to achieve the rest of the numbers as described, rather than as how fast the disc moves through the air. Extrapolating on what you have written here, the effect would be that MVP discs would need to be thrown faster than an equivalent rim width from a non-overmold manufacturer in order to achieve its flight numbers. The trade off in my experience seems to be a high speed stability across the board which seems to be more forgiving, even on understable molds and once a disc stabilizes on a line, it tends to hold it for what might seem to be a longer time than I'd otherwise expect before fading a fade which is also less sudden than 'normal'. I hypothesize that this translates to a roughly equal distance to that of a traditional disc, but on a less sensitive golf line. It also creates the impression of less glide as the disc more determinedly reaches the end of flight, rather than losing spin and 'floating' out of its line. Net result in my extensive use is 'different', not farther - but having an array of different types of shot in your bag is a wonderful thing and thus I'll always have a few key molds in single shot and over-molded discs.
snap is movement of your fingers after throw. Not related of good throw at all. There could be speed lower affect too when finger stucks edge of rim. Otherwise this channel is very good and helpful to use teaching basic and more for others.
I really dont like using the phrasing "high speed discs are faster". Discs are always as fast as you throw them. High speed discs require more power to fly properly, that's all. Btw SImon did his speed records with a 100g dog frisbee. I guess weight is more important than rim shape.
Four years and countless speed videos later and this is still by far the greatest video on disc speed available.
Amazing job; hope this channel gets a revival as this is still invaluable into for new players like me! Thank you!
I'm only 40 seconds in and I'm already SUPER APPRECIATIVE of this video. THANK YOU!!!!!!
God these are such great videos. So underrated and so well done. I hope you do more.
Thanks McSquizzee -- more are coming soon!
I am a year late to this party, but as a fledgling noob, I gotta start somewhere for answers to the most obvious questions... THIS RESOURCE IS GREAT. SUBBED. Thanks for the easy to understand tutorials.
I love your videos. I'm getting ready to watch them all for the third time. I can't wait for the others. Thanks for sharing!
This is the best channel ever!!! So happy i discovered it and i can't wait for more!
isn't it about time for another video? They've all been great and very informative.
These are excellent, well thought out videos. I appreciate them!
hell yeah thanks for the downriver disc golf shoutout. This video helps alot. Devils trail should definitley be open next spring.
I'd love for the glide portion of this series to talk a little bit about the relationship between a disc's glide rating and wind, specifically how to choose discs which are good in headwind/tailwind situations based on their glide rating.
Thanks for the great videos!
These videos are brilliant - please keep making them. Great work.
Please make a video about snap. I have a bum shoulder which keeps me from throwing discs very hard. I'd like to learn how to use snap to possibly make up for that.
You didn't put the links in the description. So here they are:
Bradley Walker: More Snap - Part 1: ruclips.net/video/qGGYsSUGKXk/видео.html
More Snap - Part 2: ruclips.net/video/QhM6XMxlErk/видео.html
Closed shoulder snap drill: ruclips.net/video/LffYBb1vQjQ/видео.html
I like that you addressed the MVP overmolding process - but you didn't cover it fully. The Tesla is NOT the longest disc available - and for a few reasons. Firstly, the rim-width of the Tesla is only 20mm, so it cannot possibly fly as far as a disc with a 24mm wing.
Secondly, MVP have a very strong preference for flat-top discs, without any sort of dome at all, and this reduces the glide rating of a disc, while fractionally increasing air-speed, and reducing drag. For distance throws, you need lots of glide.
You partially addressed the issue with MVP - and it boils down to: THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH. You can add more weight to the rim, but the overall angular momentum of the disc will not change, so the disc will spin more slowly for the same energy. This negates much of the positive spin (no pun intended) which MVP put out.
I do believe it is beneficial to have the extra weight at the rim, so that the gyroscopic stability is enhanced somewhat, but there's no extra energy appearing magically from somewhere, to propel the disc further.
This is the reason a 25mm wing MVP (if they ever produce one) will not fly further than a similar driver from Latitude 64, for the same energy input.
HOWEVER! If you can learn to apply more snap, THEN (and only then) will you reap the rewards of an MVP disc. BUT, this would also mean you could apply even more spin to a non-gyro disc...
It all comes down to players understanding the flight paths of their discs at various hyzer and nose angles, accounting for wind - and there is no magic in an MVP disc. They ARE very good discs indeed - but mainly because MVP are specialist overmolders with great experience in plastic overmolding.
For my money, right now, no one is making better drivers than Latitude64/Westside. They actually machine the flashing off the lower corner of the leading edge, and this is easily discernible by anyone who cares to look. You will feel the spot where the machining overlaps - something which will never ever appear on a disc straight out of a mold, as they are spun on lathes, and must be perfectly circular.
+Chris Davies They put a link to their webpage where they have the links to the videos. However they linked to "Average Disc Golf - Excellent Snap Video" and the More Snap videos you linked are far superior to that.
+1 for Bradley Walker instead of ADG
I absolutely love your videos. Thank you for want you do!
Awe. Some. Wish I would have had these around when I started playing!
Ready for those other parts! Thanks for the awesome info!
Great videos. How about making one on the perfect height to throw your drives?
Please do part 2!! Love the videos!
Dude, we need some more videos!! 😁
I love these videos. please make more
always great vids yall. maybe you could do snap in another vid.
It would also be great if you scienced up the best "nose down" angle to release the disc for distance. Thanks for the awesome videos.
I have noticed that the manufacturers determine the speed of the drivers based on the metric measurement of the rim. So the speed equals the size of the rim minus one centimeter. So a 14 speed disc will have a 2.4 centimeter rim or a 24 millimeter rim
Very nice -- great backup detail! Which rating will be next? I hope it's Glide...
Great work! When is new video coming?
The snap video, puh-lease! :D
great work. thank you
I hear the pros talk about spin rate 26.5 rpm and also forward motion up to 60+ mph at release. What is the relationship of spin vs forward motion with distance, and do people actually try to improve one or the other with different moves/drills, or do spin and forward velocity both naturally increase together as technique improves?
Would really have loved to see some sort of guideline on what speed means. How fast is an innova destroyer or boss meant to be thrown? 50mph? 60? Vibram prints speeds in mph on their disc, but they don't have any consistency with other brands.
in my opinion... simple conversion from Lat64 to Innova flight ratings: just subtract 1 to 1.5 from each category.
Do you have videos on glide, turn, and fade as well? I am new to the sport and I am trying to understand these.
Thanks!
I am curious if disc manufacturers will be able to use more of a precise "robot" of sort that can truly measure speed and other flight characteristics like they do for golf balls.
do an entire vid on snap alone!!!!
I have a general question for you.
I watched many of these videos on one recently it was comparing forehand to backhand disc speeds and torque etc..
One of the examples it showed said that to throw a disc 300 feet backhand the disc had to leave the throwers hand around 54 mph.
So my question is, without a specific disc being discussed how can you generalize that statement?
So a 7 speed leopard 3 thrown at 54 mph with other factors being equal will fly around 300 feet and so will a wraith or boss at that same speed?
I thought the whole point of disc speed ratings was to help determine disc speed for your particular arm speed, so a player with slower arm speed may find a 9 speed disc like a Valkyrie flies much better and more predictably than a 12 speed destroyer.
I always wanted to know specifically each disc speed rating ## and how it equates to actual mph and rpm.
There are lots of other factors but in general a 5 speed disc needs less speed out of the hand to fly according to its design and intended flight than a 10 speed disc and so on.
It would be nice to know what speed a disc expected itself to be thrown and then having a good way to gauge your own arm speed to determine your capabilities prior to buying discs, so if you find that you can throw a disc 42 mph only thats it, you can then look for your speed range in discs that will fly well then thrown 42 mph.
Do you get what I am trying to decipher?
Thanks for all the great videos, I love your stuff, very informative.
Hi Matt! Wow, that's a lot to "un-pack"!
We are working on a new video now that shows the relationship between disc Speed ratings and release velocities, as well as spin RPM. Rather than typing a couple of pages here, I'll work to get the video out for you ASAP!
Ok, I appreciate your time for reading my question and hopefully a new video can help clear up any confusion on my part.
It just seemed that the speed necessary for throwing a 7 speed fairway driver 300 feet probably isnt the same as throwing a 12 speed destroyer 300 feet.
So MVP discs are more difficult to snap as more of their weight is on the outer rim and therefore they are more suited for advanced players?
mornius1 yes that is true. which is why most people you are who throw MVP do not use the mac weight disc unlike you see with Innova or other manufacturers. I myself throw all MVP discs but another faster than a mid I have to use a disc between 160 and 170 grams depending on the speed of the disc. the only discs that I may have as mac weight are my windy day discs. I have noticed as well do to the over mold their light weight discs fade much harder then the heavier discs because they only make the core of the disc lighter and leave the over mold at normal weight
..brilliant...
I would like to hear some more argumentation of why high speed discs would have more mass farther away from the center.
This is my thinking:
Let's compare a putter and a driver. Both are the same weight and made of the same plastic with same density. I also assume that both of the discs flight plates are of the same thickness. (I don't know if that's really the case or is there some significant differences between the flight plate thickness) Also, both discs are of the same diameter.
If the flight plates are of the same thickness and density, the placement of the weight on the rim determines the moment of inertia. The putter has a narrow and a high rim, as the driver has a wide and low rim. So, the mass of the rim is actually closer to the center in a DRIVER. This means that the moment of inertia is actually higher in a PUTTER.
The thinking sounds right. The flight plate of a driver is actually MUCH thinner though.
more on snap please
So wouldn't MVP/Axiom discs act as a higher speed disc than ones from other companies with the same rim width? Thus you would get a higher speed disc with a smaller/more comfortable grip?
RockCh4lk They wouldn't be faster per say. The discs with a smaller rim size would theoretically spin longer than a disc of the same rim size without the overmold.
I would agree with this considering speed as a rating is more descriptive of how fast a disc need be thrown to achieve the rest of the numbers as described, rather than as how fast the disc moves through the air. Extrapolating on what you have written here, the effect would be that MVP discs would need to be thrown faster than an equivalent rim width from a non-overmold manufacturer in order to achieve its flight numbers. The trade off in my experience seems to be a high speed stability across the board which seems to be more forgiving, even on understable molds and once a disc stabilizes on a line, it tends to hold it for what might seem to be a longer time than I'd otherwise expect before fading a fade which is also less sudden than 'normal'. I hypothesize that this translates to a roughly equal distance to that of a traditional disc, but on a less sensitive golf line. It also creates the impression of less glide as the disc more determinedly reaches the end of flight, rather than losing spin and 'floating' out of its line. Net result in my extensive use is 'different', not farther - but having an array of different types of shot in your bag is a wonderful thing and thus I'll always have a few key molds in single shot and over-molded discs.
Why isn’t speed based on how aerodynamic a disc is? Put a blunt edge on a wide rim disc it’s still slow.
snap is movement of your fingers after throw. Not related of good throw at all. There could be speed lower affect too when finger stucks edge of rim.
Otherwise this channel is very good and helpful to use teaching basic and more for others.
I really dont like using the phrasing "high speed discs are faster". Discs are always as fast as you throw them.
High speed discs require more power to fly properly, that's all.
Btw SImon did his speed records with a 100g dog frisbee. I guess weight is more important than rim shape.
Is the lock picking lawyer the narrator of this channel ?
in my opinion... simple conversion from Lat64 to Innova flight ratings: just subtract 1 to 1.5 from each category.