@@lightning_11 I REALLY DIDNT ASK, PLEASE, JUST MARRY ME THEMISTEREPIC, IM A HARDTIME GOONER AND I REALLY NEED YOUR TIME SO PLEASE LET ME TAKE YOU TO PROM
You left out the main reason that was given at the time for the rules and enforcement change: Some servers had very high price perks, with some children taking their parents' credit cards and charging thousands of dollars. Some parents even tried to sue Mojang, not realizing the servers where not run by them. At the same time, many non-competitive servers with only reasonably priced donator levels providing only minor quality of life perks were in panic mode.
Yep, and unfortunately only the honest ones left out of fear. The issue still persisted, but only from those who couldn’t care less about it, and those just so happened to be the ones they were trying to clamp down on.
He very much left this out to try and swing the narrative. There is 0 way he didn't know about this. This entire video was very much made in bad faith.
The whole video felt way too one-sided. He should have presented Mojang's perspective, but he only showed the servers owners perspective, making Mojang seem to be the "bad guys", despite the EULA being reasonable and that p2w servers were hurting minecraft's reputation among parents, and like it or not, at the time, the majority of the minecraft playerbase were children or young teenagers(and maybe still is)
So the Minecraft community banded together... to defend P2W crap so hard that Notch quit and sold it to Micro I guess they did get what they wished for
Agreed in that. "Choose lesser evil" is a bs of a reason to let this keep going. I'm pretty happy the servers that did that kind of stuff went this much down in popularity initially. And now.. They are just allowing this again. "Step in the right direction" my a$$, that is a whole step backwards.
@@linnymiddy Stop with the excuses. There is nothing worth defending about this decision, and Mojang having given up on their previous stance is complete and utter garbage.
Notch didn't even do anything about it though did he? The Mojang team did, Notch was just widely known as the creator of Minecraft, so people blamed him. At least from what I know
And Don't forget that since Microsoft took over Minecraft some really great mods we're never updated ever again because some creators we're fearful or have a distan of Microsoft
Servers cost money, sure. Having some kind of system to cover costs is fine, but a lot of these pay-to-win servers that specifically target kids is deplorable. Not to mention rampant gambling. Like seriously?
@TheRian125 definitely true. When it comes to online play. I have always been a fan and advocate of subscription based gameplay. It is much better to ask someone to pay X dollars to logon and play at an equal standing with all other players, than offer a "free" service that treats whales better than everyone else. If a server requires money to operate, charge a monthly fee that covers operating costs and maybe a little profit, and if necessary adjust it for inflation periodically. If you have a good service, people will play. If you offer a free trial you can get even more to play. Microtransactions and pay2win platforms have ruined so many otherwise good games. Subs are a very easy way to cover scaling network costs and leave room for maintenance and development and marketing. Running a for-profit server of a game you don't own, doesn't even really sound legal anyways, so not sure why the ones doing it were ever surprised by Mojangs reaction, especially after microsoft took over.
I will never be able to understand Minecraft Players man. They hated on Notch for forcing servers to remove P2W features to the point that he had to sell Minecraft to a corporation and yet now they wonder why so many Minecraft servers has in-game gambling that takes advantage of children who don't know any better🤦
>to the point that he had to sell Minecraft to a corporation He'd ALREADY been planning on getting out, he hadnt been super involved in the past 3 years and he wanted to work on something else already. The headache that was the EULA drama and dealing with Legal Shit only made that worse.
I do think they had good intentions and the right to change the EULA but they did it in the worst way possible, first not allowing profit was indefensible imo, then gave no chance for pay to win servers to adapt so many just did not survive. If they had been transparent and gave proper warnings in good time things would have gone much much better
One character from a film once said "You get what you fucking deserve." and since I heard it I always use it. You wanted to defend P2W? You got it by the corporation that is even more evasive than Notch himself. Go gamble on minecraft and enjoy the pain.
Sorry, pay to win ain't the way. If people can't run a server without it then they shouldn't be running a server. Pay 2 Win is gambling, and the usual target is children. Its bad in triple a gaming, and its bad here. "But its easier to pay for the server, and makes more money", is not a good reason to use an exploitative business model.
Also, the argument with "having to pay lots for advertising" is complete garbage as every server has to deal with the same problems. So if pay to win is being forbidden and income across all servers drops, costs for advertising would automatically adjust by falling because nobody could afford the 27.000$ per month for the best position anymore.
I get why people hated realms when they were added, and putting it in that context I also get that feeling of greedy corporate actions, but just saying, to a group of children who couldn’t host a regular server with parents willing to spend, it was a pretty good option
For sure. My friends and I as a kid played on realms so we could all talk easier (we were online friends) and since we were like 12 it worked. It was also safer than pay to play servers lol. Still besties with one of those people today
NAH , That's the easy way. Fuck that. I couldn't afford it so I figured out how I could make some money + host a server myself. That shit wouldn't have happened if I didn't have the motivation. Fuck the kids, they don't deserve a server if they don't have the resources to host it
Realms are hosted on a potato and even a cheap $5 vps on some server host would perform better. It is literally like free minehut hosting sort of performance
@@synkstar9921 I’m not gonna disagree. They could be very frustrating to use at times. (And from I hear still are now?) But it was my group’s only option, so we got past that.
@@naejelangelogonzales6623 Honestly he biggest falw as a person is believing he is a game designer and athor and hating that he can m,ake a mistajke nin those areas... When in realioty he is the one true Game engine dev God whith no equal even from Unreal engine and frostbigtes devs teams that are funding by major AAA games as well as billion USD compnmies... Like Notch with Minecraft 1 made the best game engine of all time in terms of longevity, flexablity and easye of use something no other game engine has ever come close to matching ever... Not even coding laungues besides Machine code but that cheating... Like MIne craft has not only been able to be flawless to dev with back then over a dacde ago but now for both Mojang and fans... And if fexable enough to take revotionary stuff that no modern coomuter can run... Like at all mostly because servers and render farms don't run game well or at all as is but same for modern super comupers.... I am overjoyed to see Notch just now coming to terms with the fact he isn't a game designer or athor... He is the one and only game engine God. And I don't think anyone wants it anyother way...
The moral of the story: Minecraft players whine about not being allowed to run P2W servers, but will demand companies not have P2W monetization in other games they actually devved, because THAT'S unfair.
Holy shit that server list at 2:22 hits hard. I was a "dev" in Shadowraze. I made that banner for them, as well as the website design, etc... good old memories...
For big servers they are hosting them cost tons of money and people need an actual insensitive to buy stuff instead of just cosmetics. The only real exception are very old servers such as 2b2t or feather64 because they already have VERY dedicated players. The average new Gen server won't have this privilege tho so they have to go p2w or die.
Key differences here. Nobody would pay to play a minecraft server if there were already similar minecraft servers that were free to play. Most of these games require you to pay to play, and each of these games is vastly different from one another, unlike Minecraft servers, which are just instances of Minecraft that were modified. This means that people *would* buy the game to play it because it's a unique experience that you can't find anywhere else. An example of games that failed to be unique is mobile games. When was the last time you saw a non-p2w (or one that isn't infested with ads) mobile game that isn't cross-platform? And yes, there are games called live service games that are inspired by games that were successful. The reason they were successful is because they were unique in their own way. The main point I'm making is that Minecraft servers can't turn a profit without p2w mechanics because they are too similar to be pay to play. Nobody would buy them, just like how nobody would buy Realms subscriptions (because there's already free multiplayer servers) or Bedrock microtransactions (because you can use mods on Java to get those accessories). On the large scale, for the games who struck it rich, millions of copies of the game would be sold for (example) $60. That would definitely be enough to supply costs. The MMOs that require big servers use monthly subscriptions to keep them running, which people *do* pay.
@@Kevin-nr2jcpeople act like it's a right for their server to make money, also people literally pay to play custom experiences of free mmos like runescape, that business has existed for decades.
@@vCherrykAI16 they had a lot of time to figure out a monetization scheme that wasn't a predatory mess, but they waited until they weren't allowed to do that anymore to do any of it
I feel this video ENTIRELY OMITTED a major factor of this situation. The ***MAIN*** reason they cracked down on servers doing P2W back then was because of kids using their parents credit cards. Mojang was inundated by emails and calls from irate parents who were demanding refunds for these unapproved charges (some were upwards of 10's of thousands of dollars), and threatening legal action if they didn't. Mojang, however, couldn't refund them as they weren't the ones who took the money. Regardless, Mojang was looking at potential legal repercussions if they didn't at least try to do something. Realms were created as a "safer" alternative for families/children as well. I mean, it is infinitely easier to set up a Realm than it is a normal server and since it was ran by Mojang/Microsoft it couldn't have such microtransactions on them (that is until they added their own store post Miscrosoft..but that was well after all of this). You, and the other P2W server owners, seem to conveniently forget these details. I honestly think you know all this, but are purposely leaving it out of this video to try and swing the narrative, honestly. You fell off hard, man. I was a big fan for years but recently you seem to be omitting a lot of information and defending P2W far too hard (ever since you opened your own). I get that servers need money to operate, I wont argue that. But I will argue the methods being used are wrong considering MineCrafts main playerbase. If you cant run a server without implementing P2W, then you shouldnt be operating a server at all. If you cant afford it, don't fucking do it.
That's not the fault of the server owners, this happens for every game and online service. These kids would have still done the same thing, even if the servers weren't pay to win. The responsibility is on the parents here. You say I shouldn't defend p2w, but you are unable to provide a viable monetisation alternative that is proven to work. Until you can, you cannot in good faith argue that p2w is bad.
That doesn't work for minecraft. Nobody wants to pay to play a server, that would effectively kill it. Furthermore, my server actually had (and and still does have), a subscription based non p2w rank on my SMP, and while it helped to cover things like hosting, it wasn't nearly enough. For example, the most people we ever had subscribed to this rank (which cost $10 per month), was about 30 (so roughly $300 a month). That is not even enough to cover our dedi lol. Now on the contrary you have a p2w server with a $150 rank. On that server multiple people may buy that rank each month, easily beating the revenue from a subscription rank
They relied on an unethical method to exist, when that unethical method goes away, they obviously die. That's not because the eula is bad, but rather because the prior system allowed no ethical alternative that would thrive post-eula.
Wait so the fault of notch selling minecraft is pay2win eula madness? Oh my fucking god I wanna cry, minecraft would be so much better if not the stupid community doing backlash, notch would have never quit and the game would be great.....
Its wild that people actually defended this. Sure servers have costs but theres always ways to deal with that. And I mena because of that backlash we have gambling and lootboxes now in servers, servers don't want to make money just to cover server costs anymore, people make servers -to- make money now.
The fact that companies are forced tolisten to children and scammers is insane to me Anything p2w in a paid game is scummy no matter how you twist or turn it
It's not that mojang was wrong, it's that the server owners thought that the eula would only affect their server, while everyone else would go scot free and continue using p2w, it's a narcissistic mindset that ended up ruining the minecraft server scene entirely. Fairly enforced anti-p2w measures would certainly HELP honest servers thrive, it wouldn't take away money, as kids would spend their parents' money on the garbage these servers would sell regardless.
I'm expected to feel sorry for these server owners when they're "opening coffee shops" and "having other investments" when this minecraft thing of scamming kids didn't work out? That's fucking hilarious.
I love how "mc multiplayer community" bullied the fair pro-player creator to defend p2w trash so MC got sold to a company which gave them exactly the p2w trash they wanted and now deserve
because you just HAVE to pay money to advertise your server, right? you HAVE to make more than 20% profit on it! that TOTALLY justifies charging people with microtransactions and loot crates! oh no, how will we be able to afford paying artists and web developers for our MINECRAFT SERVER? jeez, people treating minecraft servers as a legitimate business instead of just something you do because you like a video game is super lame. i'm not surprised notch was over it. heck, just ask for donations to help cover costs and if your server is something people actually like, they will gladly help support it. like... is there something that i'm not understanding here?
It wasn’t that simple back then, and it’s easy to jump on the band wagon of “micro-transaction bad” nowadays, but it really was not as big of an issue as it is now, and ironically the issues now are due to Microsoft and major corporations. Half the game was built by the community and you had to be there to understand the progress. Now those “builders” are gone and the game is slowly becoming a shell of what it once was, with the majority of people who _DO_ want to take advantage of others now being the only ones left. The game taught so many current computer science and engineering majors working right now in the real world solve very complex issues, and the process for that has become more and more complicated and strange as Microsoft has tried to more and more push the people who built the game’s community out by making it not as easy to mod (with _actual_ code) and mess around with. I’m not saying it is impossible nor hard to mod the game, it’s just, different; a bit more nuance that wasn’t there in the beginning. Notch had to do what he had to do because of the law, p2w was very confusing to put lightly because the law surrounding donations and receiving “things” for them in return was not very clear back then with regards to digital items and the enforcement of it was very iffy. Server hosts just saw it as a way to offset the cost of hosting and possibly to make some money on the side if they got more people to play, it was a very mutual relationship with Mojang and the community, then they all got tossed out and many beloved servers had to be shut down because they could no longer support themselves since they were already barely making things work monetarily. Now the only ones left _aren’t_ those people and that’s why the game is struggling.
@@_vizec conplete lack of perspective is the problem. If the eula was fairly enforced, there would be no harmful competition, all these issues you mentioned wouldn't exist. If the community didn't complain, everything would be better. Noone would need to use p2w, because noone else would be using p2w to compete with them.
@@JustThiemo if it's a business then it is not a very good one tbh. This is the sort of thing that should be for hobbyists and enthusiasts first and foremost and if it happens to be lucrative, dope.
It bums me out looking back at how popular our server was in 2013 compared to now. Back then we consistently got 100+ concurrent players, now we are lucky to get 10. Thankfully we still have a dedicated community so funding the server is doable for us without using a pay-to-win model, but I don't think we'll ever get back to the player counts we had back then.
its not because of eula changes, old players grew up, new players have so many free games now they don't have to bother with minecraft servers, I've always played on minecraft servers because a lot of them recreated popular games I couldn't play, now kids can just go play fortnite or something.
I remember when I first got a Family Minecraft account in 2013 My friend would come over and help my brother Figure out Hypixel while I would watch him play. That eventually lead us to getting MCPE on all our IPads in 2015/16 and we would play Minecraft basically everyday after school! I still enjoy Minecraft all these years later but it feels like a massive part of my Minecraft Childhood was lost and it seems like I’ll never get it back :’(
This was a fun era to run a server through. I was accused almost daily of breaking the EULA and people reporting me. It was stressful for the big guys who could no longer pay bills and it was stressful for us smaller servers who weren't even doing anything wrong.
All the people saying minecraft 2 gonna be a thing, its not, its headline baiting for another small game notch is making, if you want minecraft 2, check out vintage story.
@@TheMisterEpic so the better solution is still doing p2w? The hell kinda fried logic is that? Instead of crying like a bunch of children cause you can't get your easy paydays from selling gambling to kids find a more longterm solution. Or ya know, mojang bad or whatever lmao. Give me a break I've heard wild takes before but this takes the cake.
@@TheMisterEpicNot being able to survive is such an excuse lmao locking out certain items, perks and gamemodes behind a paywall is bad, you can still monetize a server but also make it f2p friendly like, very long grind able methods to obtain p2w items, make p2w features only result in faster progression, etc
shutting down p2w is good actually, the reason they enforced this is bc many parents were complaining to mojang about servers that tricked their kids into spending thousands of dollars
Shutting down p2w is not good, as there are no viable alternative server monetisation models proven to work. Until you can tell me some, that are proven to work, your argument will always be incorrect.
@ literally all the major servers on bedrock and java today are not p2w and they’re doing fine, it been years since the EULA changes and servers still exist with a sizeable player base.
That is not true either. Bedrock is different since they have free advertising through the in-game bedrock server list, but on java, the top server Hypixel is pay to win with SkyBlock, mccomplex is pay to win, vortexmc is pay to win, donutsmp is pay to win, amongst many others. The few higher up non p2w ones I can think of (mcci, hoplite, minemen), all either had free advertising through youtubers/big influencer events (which the average server doesnt have access to), or were older servers who became popular back when it was easier to grow and less competitive. Furthermore, minigame/practice servers like minemen club, cosmetic microtransactions are much more effective, and hosting costs are lower
@@plokenv people liked the string dupe, the villager bug where you could infinitely cure, sneak-sprint, 2clickMine, etc. im not talking about dupe glitches man
turkey tried to ban minecraft and did it partly. during the ban, lots of turkish servers (one of which was called "prumencraft") was closed. the ban lift, however most of the servers were gone forever.
"our server cannot survive if we were eula compliant" is like arguing in court that you wouldn't be able to eat if you hadn't robbed the bank, thus you should be allowed to rob the bank
This would be the case if what the servers were doing were illegal or unethical. Many of the servers in 2014 who were negatively affected by this eula change featured 0 gambling elements, and only had ranks as their pay to win mechanics. Selling pay to win ranks is not illegal or unethical
The way this video is clearly biased towards server owners is kinda crazy, most of these servers were pay to win and most of the people playing and most importantly buying things were kids. I dont think that a good enough reason to be angry at notch and I actually respect them for doing what they did. Obviously servers now have a lot of gambling and im not sure if they did back then but it would not surprise me if they did and which makes me respect Mojang even more for this.
I presented all the facts of the situation. Most of these servers were pay to win, as that is what's required to remain operational (as explained in the video)
My honest opinion about the situation is simple. Why host a minecraft server in the first place? If its to maintain a community, then the community should pay for its upkeep. If its for your friends, a temporary server or realms works just fine. This is only a problem for servers who exist solely to make money. Being the top dog of the industry. Ones who want as many people to buy into their system as possible. There is no good intentions here from the server owners prospective. They clearly just want money.
This logic isn't really great. Why do people make games in the first place? Why do people do what they do in the first place. And a lot of the time that is for money. And it's not just due to greed, often times especially in the case of Minecraft servers, server owners want to make money so they can turn one of their favourite hobbies and passions into a full-time job. And as for players, there's a reason they played these servers. There's a reason Mineplex, and all the other big servers who got 1000s of players daily, got those players for so long. And that's because these players find these servers fun and enjoyable. The experiences these servers offered, what made them become so loved by players world wide, were only possible when the server operated with the goal of making money. Whether you like it or not the fact of the matter is, money allowed for the creation of the games most famous and most beloved servers.
@@TheMisterEpic Yes, there are other ways of making money that isn't through a minecraft server. I see minecraft servers as hubs for people to chat and play through, not products onto themselves. Imagine doing this on a discord server for an example. Minecraft servers, that are not monopolized by big branded minigame servers, are mainly community based. So it should be up to the community to decide if the server should stay alive or not. Not forced down loot boxes and locked behind features just to justify its existence. Saying that those behaviors are justified misses the whole point of why to host a minecraft server. Unless you treat it like a business. Which is a sign of greed more then anything else. You want to make money from hosting a minecraft server. Its not because people want it or its an actual passion project. If it was a passion project, then why do you need to beg for it? But maybe I'm just a bit anarchical when it comes to these kinds of things. There is no one stopping people from making a business from minecraft servers. But saying "Making a business" is considered a passion project just sounds disgusting to me. There is no passion other then for money here.
@@TheMisterEpic I get trying to make a hobby into a business, and I'm not defending Mojang's abuse of the EULA, but forcing peoples hand into paying just so you can do so is scummy. Look at early access games, people trying to turn hobby into business, does not justify a lot of them adding micro transactions, asking people for 30-60 euro for a promise that the game will be finished at some point and promising to be the best game ever. Servers trying to go from passion to business asking players to gamble or pay for items is the same deal. Also I feel like the reason most servers no longer get the traffic they once did is because of less active java players, Realms and private servers, minigames are also not as popular as they once were with most youtube content focused on building and SMPs now.
@@Strandedpasta Hey! People need money to live. Are you saying that jobs are bad? Why do you bring down these people who are keeping your favorite servers alive while also surviving themselves?
Here in Czechia it was not that big of a deal, because 95% of servers were for cracked players. I was aware of only 2 slightly successful non-cracked servers, and one of them was a youtuber-only server.
And this right here, is why minecraft is just not that great of a game anymore. What's the point of a giant sandbox if you're all alone and have nobody to enjoy it with? Servers made this game reach it's heights. Mojang killed them, and by extension, the game as a whole. The only hope for a return to the golden age of block games now is Hytale.
Going to make another comment on the subject, sue me. But maybe calling greedy is undermining the point. Minecraft servers are hugely unprofitable. They can't work as a business without external funding. So why are we justifying all the shitty behavior that servers do to survive? Why are we giving them the same privilege as youtube videos? Which on the youtube side of things, is free advertising compared to servers. Why are we trying to keep a failing business model alive? I get it that some have passion, but using it as an excuse isn't enough. Passion doesn't go through without a plan, and most plans are exploiting children or high donation perks. Maybe we should let these big servers die in flames. Since they are only remembered for their shitty practices these days. If they refuse to adapt, then so be it, its not our responsibility to keep servers alive after all.
I guess the reason people want them to survive, is because they are fun to play. At the end of the day, these servers don't get as many players as they do for no reason. Most of the negative press they receive happens on RUclips or social media, which the average person playing these servers doesn't care about, nor participate in, it's largely an isolated echo chamber. Personally, my best experiences playing Minecraft were on large p2w servers, and those experiences (like factions) wouldn't be possible with the servers being p2w
servers dying without bullshit p2w stuff just showed how weak the foundation of whole mc multiplayer was. Its very hard me to have much or any sympathy for any of server owners who put p2w trash into their servers. This my option 10 years ago and still is. Same comes with servers with any form of gambling
The foundation is weak due to the lack of proper support from Mojang. If Mojang had for example, done as little as provide an in-game server list, a huge expense these servers had being advertising costs would disappear, and they wouldn't need as much money to operate.
And now after selling Minecraft to Microsoft it’s become corporate and lacking any soul, with Bedrock basically being a bigger cash grab than the Realms feature. We got the EULA changes at the cost of corporate greed. It’s essentially a Monkey’s Paw wish.
Honestly, if most non-cosmetic content/features on a pvp/minigame server was obtainable for free but slower than with a rank, that is a better monetization model than gambling. I would have been perfectly fine with Mineplex's minigame kits like that as long as they were reasonably balanced. Honestly, I dislike more hypixel's coin multipliers which originally came from ranks before EULA change and now network level, which you can get boosted in with buying global multipliers. The coin based minigames offer strength progression, making people with those perks significantly stronger, in addition to usually being more skilled in the game. Getting into those games is hard as most of the few people playing them anymore are veterans, skywars being the most succesful.
The whole #saveminecraft thing was a movement started by youtubers and server owners who had a monetary incentive to keep the P2W aspects in play. They were straight up using their power to manipulate the fanbase into supporting P2W garbage. Mojang was right on this one.
My patrons [Im also a content creator] pay for the community server I've been hosting the past 7 years. 0 micro transactions and our survival world is still rocking. It's free for anyone that wants to join... but the downside is we see a max of 10 people on at one time dailym I dont understand why people flock to pay 2 win... thats insane.
What ppl are missing here is: mojang quietly bought bucket! Told no one, used their volunteers, all to benefit realms. Notch and Dinnerbone are no better than microsoft
I had no idea that the huge decline in Minecraft popularity was entirely due to the EULA changes. I rarely played multiplayer to begin with, so I thought it was related to the youtube algorithm.
It isnt super expensive. You dont need to pay for fancy plugins. You dont need advertising. You dont need the biggest server farm to run it if you aren't already at a ton of concurrent users maxing out the specs of a smaller system. People just use these as excuses to exploit others.
@@Aves_1 i agree this is probably the case alot of the time, but what that video was trying to say is that the system has become so corrupt that you have no coice but to pay up if you want your server to go anywhere. so even servers with good intentions have to get down on their knees and beg their players for money. its a very broken system that needs to be completely redone
@@Aves_1 you cant make the server profitable without all of these. no plugins = worse experience for the players = no money; no advertising = no players = no money; bad servers = worse experience for the players = no money
One person is capable of amazing things that inspires millions or more. Large mobs of people have *_never_* shown such capability. Ever. "Persons" are smart, but people are stupid.
There is a difference in between maintaining the costs of servers and actually offer gambling and p2w products. Like monthly rank subscriptions with few small perks are for covering the costs but actually selling packages of like prot 10, sharpness 10 or whatever OP netherite equipment for 150 dollars is just p2w yes. But on the other hand they need to keep servers entertaining, but are also profiting this way of Notch's creation. Its a bit of a gray area. Where would you draw the line on offering products to cover hosting costs, and just plainly selling Mojang's product for pure profit? Servers like Hypixel and Mineplex were and still are expensive with such huge player lists. A simple Minecraft world you are using daily already is pretty big. But hosting a server where 30k players can join worldwide needs good internet and hard/software to keep it up.
It's pretty clear that most of the people who were complaining about this change were not worried about maintaining a server just for their community, they wanted to draw pay pigs in order to turn a profit, spending more and more to snowball more profit, it's no surprise that servers that operated like this died the moment the money even slightly dipped, as for advertising your server to those not in your community you may as well be screaming into the void if you are not on the first page, it's a waste of money, if your community truly cared to help out they would.
That's just not true at all. Most of the servers who complained and complied, were servers such as McPvP, who by today's standards were the furthest thing from p2w prior to complying. If you can't see the fact that many servers who were ethically monetized, were killed by this change, whereas the unethically monetized servers didn't comply and continued to function for a few years, then I don't know how else to show it to you. The servers that died and were most affected, were the ones who weren't as p2w, as they were the ones already riding a fine line prior to the EULA changes. The EULA changes only made the prevalence of unethically monetized servers increase.
День назад
Turning a profit is a good thing, it encourages people to invest in their server and increases competition.
To be honest I don't really feel bad about the servers being shut down because they couldn't fund it. Like, yea it sucks for the people invested, but I wouldn't feel bad about my favorite store closing if it was only afloat by selling crack lol. "You don't understand, I have to sell p2w services to impressionable, exploitable kids with no recognition of the worth of money" come on. Be real,
Despite this video being made to paint the removal of P2W in a negative light, it reinforces that such a decision is more favourable. I'm glad I never got involved with large servers, it's just suffocating; from a player perspective
not going to lie the amount of times I've been brainwashed into buying stuff on minecraft because every youtuber had it was insane. i believe the eula changes to a degree. also there are servers that would actually just falsely ban you and say you were cheating then make you pay 15$ for an unban or losing all your progress and moving on to a different server. really greedy way of getting money out of children
I’m actually pretty interested in seeing a Minecraft like game by Notch. This may give us some insight into what could’ve been Minecraft if it followed Notch’s vision. I can imagine it’ll start with no goddamn micro transactions. The micro transactions would be replaced by a strong modding community like Java Edition Minecraft was and is.
I always hated p2w and never participated in servers. Didn't really care. Crazy that fans forced notch into selling minecraft only to probably watch people take p2w servers down with cheats, honestly only thing mojang really screwed up on was bukkit, in my opinion
hearing that BBH video again from when Mcpvp shut down brings back memories. That server was so good, sucks they were one of the only ones to actually try and abide by Mojang's rules and they were punished for it. Their monetization was actually very fair tbh, meanwhile servers like archon, cosmic, etc were all able to thrive for multiple years after even when essentially ignoring/finding workarounds for the EULA
That's ironic how all the complaining got Notch to sell the game to Microsoft, which I'd argue has been much worse for the game than anything in that EULA ever was
Good thing for Mojang he's a sub 95 IQ Mongoloid because he's been fumbling the ball so hard since getting all that money I think he's going to run off with it soon.
Makes sense, since most sever activity is spread far and wide, and most Minigame servers are Dead on Arrival, or die in the face of "I'm you, but more Popular" :V
I'm like halfway through this video, I hope you start expanding on some things, because in the video you just got done explaining server costs, without saying the word "overhead." Granted, that's possible to do, but I have no idea what your daily costs per player were on avg, and then later you say you need pay to win mechanics because otherwise your server would make 5x less. Again, need to see numbers about this, but also, since I have no idea what your avg cost per player is and you didn't give a solid amount of how much you actually make from both different methods, it's impossible to make a conclusion, it simply "sounds bad". Here's hoping your second half gets better.
"You need to pay for server hosting" - Nope, no you don't "You need to pay for plugins" - Nope, no you don't "You need to pay for advertising" - Nope, no you don't
Also, all of that can be fixed by having something like open source plugins, or mojang owned server browser, that fairly advertises servers, and server hosting from your own pc, essentially just for the passion of it.
@@Whatismusic123 … Dont expose your home network. Too risky. You can get a totally free server by using Oracle Cloud computing. There is a free tier that can handle 1000 concurrent players. The only downfall is Oracle requires you to verify your identity and provide a credit card. There is great info on how to set it up here on YT. :)
""You need to pay for server hosting" - Nope, no you don't" yes, yes you do. Even if you set the server to run in your own home on a spare PC, THAT'S GOING TO CONSUME ELECTRICITY AND ELECTRICITY COSTS **MONEY**
It's very true how none p2w is hard to keep afloat if it wasn't for the community I created who's willing to donate. I would have been forced to shut down 2 years ago. It's just getting too expensive.
I never really played any PVP focused servers, 10 years ago I mostly played on creative plot servers, nowadays that type of server is definitely dead, and the server I used to play on is barely hanging on by a thread (I'm not active on there anymore), it had a boost in 2020 cause of Covid then went back to barely having more than 20 players at peak times, then for a while from about 2021 until 2023 I didn't play any server at all, instead focusing on Creative Mode singleplayer, before eventually joining an SMP that I still play today
With the current setup, the spirit of competition in PVP servers is marred by pay to win mechanics. Yet I acknowledge that financing a non P2W PVP server without Mojang's support or a subscription fee is very difficult. I don't have a solution, but I avoid PVP servers for this reason so I don't have to lose my items and bases to people who have unfair advantages. In a non-PVP environment, at least the advantages whales have can't be leveraged against me in such an oppressive manner.
Maybe it's just that I never played on public servers so I don't have that attachment, but like... if your server can't survive without pushing pay-to-win to a player base of actual children.... then maybe... it doesn't deserve to survive... 🤷
Make sure to subscribe!
Check out my minecraft server: og-network.net
Discord: discord.com/invite/ognetwork
i love ur vids
TIME!! We survived until 3:31 before Mojang secretly updated their terms of service...
I REALLY DIDNT ASK, PLEASE, JUST MARRY ME THEMISTEREPIC, IM A HARDTIME GOONER AND I REALLY NEED YOUR TIME SO PLEASE LET ME TAKE YOU TO PROM
I REALLY DIDNT ASK, PLEASE, JUST MARRY ME THEMISTEREPIC, IM A HARDTIME GOONER AND I REALLY NEED YOUR TIME SO PLEASE LET ME TAKE YOU TO PROM
@@lightning_11 I REALLY DIDNT ASK, PLEASE, JUST MARRY ME THEMISTEREPIC, IM A HARDTIME GOONER AND I REALLY NEED YOUR TIME SO PLEASE LET ME TAKE YOU TO PROM
You left out the main reason that was given at the time for the rules and enforcement change: Some servers had very high price perks, with some children taking their parents' credit cards and charging thousands of dollars. Some parents even tried to sue Mojang, not realizing the servers where not run by them.
At the same time, many non-competitive servers with only reasonably priced donator levels providing only minor quality of life perks were in panic mode.
Yep, and unfortunately only the honest ones left out of fear. The issue still persisted, but only from those who couldn’t care less about it, and those just so happened to be the ones they were trying to clamp down on.
@@_vizec problem is that mojang didn't enforce it
Plus the gambling. Don’t forget about that.
He very much left this out to try and swing the narrative. There is 0 way he didn't know about this. This entire video was very much made in bad faith.
The whole video felt way too one-sided. He should have presented Mojang's perspective, but he only showed the servers owners perspective, making Mojang seem to be the "bad guys", despite the EULA being reasonable and that p2w servers were hurting minecraft's reputation among parents, and like it or not, at the time, the majority of the minecraft playerbase were children or young teenagers(and maybe still is)
So the Minecraft community banded together... to defend P2W crap
so hard that Notch quit and sold it to Micro
I guess they did get what they wished for
You gotta choose the lesser evil sometimes, and that was before minecraft gambling became a huge issue it is nowadays
Agreed in that. "Choose lesser evil" is a bs of a reason to let this keep going. I'm pretty happy the servers that did that kind of stuff went this much down in popularity initially. And now.. They are just allowing this again. "Step in the right direction" my a$$, that is a whole step backwards.
@@linnymiddy Stop with the excuses. There is nothing worth defending about this decision, and Mojang having given up on their previous stance is complete and utter garbage.
Notch didn't even do anything about it though did he? The Mojang team did, Notch was just widely known as the creator of Minecraft, so people blamed him. At least from what I know
And Don't forget that since Microsoft took over Minecraft some really great mods we're never updated ever again because some creators we're fearful or have a distan of Microsoft
Servers cost money, sure. Having some kind of system to cover costs is fine, but a lot of these pay-to-win servers that specifically target kids is deplorable. Not to mention rampant gambling. Like seriously?
yeah i feel p2w is downright child exploitation in most cases. if you cant afford to make a server then dont make one 🤷
Remove the gambling high-risk reward
you're not wrong, but there's a giant difference between a pay to win server and a Casino with a Minecraft skin
@@k2a2l2 Gambling is bad, especially targeted towards kids.
But P2W - if you take that away, it's hard to make a server financially viable.
@TheRian125 definitely true. When it comes to online play. I have always been a fan and advocate of subscription based gameplay. It is much better to ask someone to pay X dollars to logon and play at an equal standing with all other players, than offer a "free" service that treats whales better than everyone else. If a server requires money to operate, charge a monthly fee that covers operating costs and maybe a little profit, and if necessary adjust it for inflation periodically. If you have a good service, people will play. If you offer a free trial you can get even more to play. Microtransactions and pay2win platforms have ruined so many otherwise good games. Subs are a very easy way to cover scaling network costs and leave room for maintenance and development and marketing. Running a for-profit server of a game you don't own, doesn't even really sound legal anyways, so not sure why the ones doing it were ever surprised by Mojangs reaction, especially after microsoft took over.
I will never be able to understand Minecraft Players man. They hated on Notch for forcing servers to remove P2W features to the point that he had to sell Minecraft to a corporation and yet now they wonder why so many Minecraft servers has in-game gambling that takes advantage of children who don't know any better🤦
>to the point that he had to sell Minecraft to a corporation
He'd ALREADY been planning on getting out, he hadnt been super involved in the past 3 years and he wanted to work on something else already.
The headache that was the EULA drama and dealing with Legal Shit only made that worse.
its always the grown ass babies ruining everything for the rest of the community, happens to every game
I do think they had good intentions and the right to change the EULA but they did it in the worst way possible, first not allowing profit was indefensible imo, then gave no chance for pay to win servers to adapt so many just did not survive. If they had been transparent and gave proper warnings in good time things would have gone much much better
This is why Notch is becoming xenophob and racist?
It's almost like there needs to be middle ground with nether end of extremes
One character from a film once said "You get what you fucking deserve." and since I heard it I always use it. You wanted to defend P2W? You got it by the corporation that is even more evasive than Notch himself. Go gamble on minecraft and enjoy the pain.
Sorry, pay to win ain't the way. If people can't run a server without it then they shouldn't be running a server. Pay 2 Win is gambling, and the usual target is children. Its bad in triple a gaming, and its bad here. "But its easier to pay for the server, and makes more money", is not a good reason to use an exploitative business model.
Also, the argument with "having to pay lots for advertising" is complete garbage as every server has to deal with the same problems. So if pay to win is being forbidden and income across all servers drops, costs for advertising would automatically adjust by falling because nobody could afford the 27.000$ per month for the best position anymore.
I get why people hated realms when they were added, and putting it in that context I also get that feeling of greedy corporate actions, but just saying, to a group of children who couldn’t host a regular server with parents willing to spend, it was a pretty good option
For sure. My friends and I as a kid played on realms so we could all talk easier (we were online friends) and since we were like 12 it worked. It was also safer than pay to play servers lol. Still besties with one of those people today
NAH , That's the easy way. Fuck that. I couldn't afford it so I figured out how I could make some money + host a server myself. That shit wouldn't have happened if I didn't have the motivation. Fuck the kids, they don't deserve a server if they don't have the resources to host it
Realms are hosted on a potato and even a cheap $5 vps on some server host would perform better. It is literally like free minehut hosting sort of performance
@@synkstar9921Bedrock realms is fine and most people use that anyway
@@synkstar9921 I’m not gonna disagree. They could be very frustrating to use at times. (And from I hear still are now?) But it was my group’s only option, so we got past that.
The timing of this video with Notch's news is impeccable lol
Notch's news? Wdym?
Him making minecraft 2 after the 2 year period of the contract with mojang
@@naejelangelogonzales6623 Honestly he biggest falw as a person is believing he is a game designer and athor and hating that he can m,ake a mistajke nin those areas... When in realioty he is the one true Game engine dev God whith no equal even from Unreal engine and frostbigtes devs teams that are funding by major AAA games as well as billion USD compnmies... Like Notch with Minecraft 1 made the best game engine of all time in terms of longevity, flexablity and easye of use something no other game engine has ever come close to matching ever... Not even coding laungues besides Machine code but that cheating... Like MIne craft has not only been able to be flawless to dev with back then over a dacde ago but now for both Mojang and fans... And if fexable enough to take revotionary stuff that no modern coomuter can run... Like at all mostly because servers and render farms don't run game well or at all as is but same for modern super comupers.... I am overjoyed to see Notch just now coming to terms with the fact he isn't a game designer or athor... He is the one and only game engine God. And I don't think anyone wants it anyother way...
Well now i just learned about it form the comments in this video.
@@PigFan570 hes making minecraft 2
The moral of the story: Minecraft players whine about not being allowed to run P2W servers, but will demand companies not have P2W monetization in other games they actually devved, because THAT'S unfair.
And now we're getting a sequel...
Insane
Hahaha we'll see
Really? I doubt it, you could keep adding content to Minecraft so there would be no need for a Minecraft 2
WATBTADS
@@PigFan570 notch tweeted that he was thinking about making a sort of sequel to minecraft (different branding ofc since he no longer owns the rights)
And a bonus showdown with Honey
And now Notch is considering making Minecraft 2
wauit whhat
Doesn't the contract selling Mojang to Microsoft prohibit the creation of Minecraft 2?
It's a spiritual successor. @@lightning_11
@@lightning_11he can’t call it Minecraft 2 but according to Notch the period was only about 2 years where he couldn’t make a similar new game
Thats Fake
So notch was being greedy, but yall weren’t… yeah okay guy that’s believable.
This exactly lol glad im not the only one questioning that
yeah it really comes across as "we deserve to be able to make money off of your game through unethical business practices you don't want to support!"
Holy shit that server list at 2:22 hits hard. I was a "dev" in Shadowraze. I made that banner for them, as well as the website design, etc... good old memories...
WOAHH
P2W mechanics are never needed, theres plenty successful games and servers that do not use that
For big servers they are hosting them cost tons of money and people need an actual insensitive to buy stuff instead of just cosmetics. The only real exception are very old servers such as 2b2t or feather64 because they already have VERY dedicated players. The average new Gen server won't have this privilege tho so they have to go p2w or die.
Key differences here. Nobody would pay to play a minecraft server if there were already similar minecraft servers that were free to play. Most of these games require you to pay to play, and each of these games is vastly different from one another, unlike Minecraft servers, which are just instances of Minecraft that were modified. This means that people *would* buy the game to play it because it's a unique experience that you can't find anywhere else.
An example of games that failed to be unique is mobile games. When was the last time you saw a non-p2w (or one that isn't infested with ads) mobile game that isn't cross-platform?
And yes, there are games called live service games that are inspired by games that were successful. The reason they were successful is because they were unique in their own way.
The main point I'm making is that Minecraft servers can't turn a profit without p2w mechanics because they are too similar to be pay to play.
Nobody would buy them, just like how nobody would buy Realms subscriptions (because there's already free multiplayer servers) or Bedrock microtransactions (because you can use mods on Java to get those accessories).
On the large scale, for the games who struck it rich, millions of copies of the game would be sold for (example) $60.
That would definitely be enough to supply costs.
The MMOs that require big servers use monthly subscriptions to keep them running, which people *do* pay.
@@Kevin-nr2jcpeople act like it's a right for their server to make money, also people literally pay to play custom experiences of free mmos like runescape, that business has existed for decades.
0:00 "10 years ago in 2014", this fucking hurts man. 2014 was like 2 years ago
For me it feels like 6 years ago.
a lot of these seemed like they were hanging on by a thread pre-eula-change
They were. they could've had a chance to recover, but the eula change killed any chances
and the EULA changes were a pair of scissors
"Our business would fail without child labor" aah servers
@@vCherrykAI16 their recovery would be fueled by unethical practices.
@@vCherrykAI16 they had a lot of time to figure out a monetization scheme that wasn't a predatory mess, but they waited until they weren't allowed to do that anymore to do any of it
I feel this video ENTIRELY OMITTED a major factor of this situation. The ***MAIN*** reason they cracked down on servers doing P2W back then was because of kids using their parents credit cards. Mojang was inundated by emails and calls from irate parents who were demanding refunds for these unapproved charges (some were upwards of 10's of thousands of dollars), and threatening legal action if they didn't. Mojang, however, couldn't refund them as they weren't the ones who took the money. Regardless, Mojang was looking at potential legal repercussions if they didn't at least try to do something. Realms were created as a "safer" alternative for families/children as well. I mean, it is infinitely easier to set up a Realm than it is a normal server and since it was ran by Mojang/Microsoft it couldn't have such microtransactions on them (that is until they added their own store post Miscrosoft..but that was well after all of this).
You, and the other P2W server owners, seem to conveniently forget these details. I honestly think you know all this, but are purposely leaving it out of this video to try and swing the narrative, honestly.
You fell off hard, man. I was a big fan for years but recently you seem to be omitting a lot of information and defending P2W far too hard (ever since you opened your own). I get that servers need money to operate, I wont argue that. But I will argue the methods being used are wrong considering MineCrafts main playerbase. If you cant run a server without implementing P2W, then you shouldnt be operating a server at all. If you cant afford it, don't fucking do it.
Then probably more than a half of servers will die = players get bored = game dead
That's not the fault of the server owners, this happens for every game and online service. These kids would have still done the same thing, even if the servers weren't pay to win. The responsibility is on the parents here.
You say I shouldn't defend p2w, but you are unable to provide a viable monetisation alternative that is proven to work.
Until you can, you cannot in good faith argue that p2w is bad.
@@TheMisterEpic subscription fee.
Problem solved.
You are allowed to charge for access just not for power.
That doesn't work for minecraft. Nobody wants to pay to play a server, that would effectively kill it. Furthermore, my server actually had (and and still does have), a subscription based non p2w rank on my SMP, and while it helped to cover things like hosting, it wasn't nearly enough. For example, the most people we ever had subscribed to this rank (which cost $10 per month), was about 30 (so roughly $300 a month). That is not even enough to cover our dedi lol. Now on the contrary you have a p2w server with a $150 rank. On that server multiple people may buy that rank each month, easily beating the revenue from a subscription rank
@@kaliek5281 That never work on servers, and will probably never work. Servers are not something that "special" to pay for access
Notch dodged an entire grenade launcher in 2014.
This is the minecraft equivalent of "our business would be impossible to operate without child labor! The costs would be too high!!"
They relied on an unethical method to exist, when that unethical method goes away, they obviously die. That's not because the eula is bad, but rather because the prior system allowed no ethical alternative that would thrive post-eula.
Wait so the fault of notch selling minecraft is pay2win eula madness? Oh my fucking god I wanna cry, minecraft would be so much better if not the stupid community doing backlash, notch would have never quit and the game would be great.....
And then the community blames everyone but themselves for causing this.
The most vocal got their way. Discussions were censored on Reddit.
The community is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!
Its wild that people actually defended this. Sure servers have costs but theres always ways to deal with that. And I mena because of that backlash we have gambling and lootboxes now in servers, servers don't want to make money just to cover server costs anymore, people make servers -to- make money now.
The fact that companies are forced tolisten to children and scammers is insane to me
Anything p2w in a paid game is scummy no matter how you twist or turn it
i was ready for some game changing 2b2t glitch from back in the day that couldve been used to destory all servers
"The Day 2b2t Almost Died"
@@inklinng This FitMC video was the worst that was ever made. He legit took the L
It's not that mojang was wrong, it's that the server owners thought that the eula would only affect their server, while everyone else would go scot free and continue using p2w, it's a narcissistic mindset that ended up ruining the minecraft server scene entirely. Fairly enforced anti-p2w measures would certainly HELP honest servers thrive, it wouldn't take away money, as kids would spend their parents' money on the garbage these servers would sell regardless.
I'm expected to feel sorry for these server owners when they're "opening coffee shops" and "having other investments" when this minecraft thing of scamming kids didn't work out? That's fucking hilarious.
I love how "mc multiplayer community" bullied the fair pro-player creator to defend p2w trash so MC got sold to a company which gave them exactly the p2w trash they wanted and now deserve
because you just HAVE to pay money to advertise your server, right? you HAVE to make more than 20% profit on it! that TOTALLY justifies charging people with microtransactions and loot crates! oh no, how will we be able to afford paying artists and web developers for our MINECRAFT SERVER? jeez, people treating minecraft servers as a legitimate business instead of just something you do because you like a video game is super lame. i'm not surprised notch was over it. heck, just ask for donations to help cover costs and if your server is something people actually like, they will gladly help support it. like... is there something that i'm not understanding here?
It wasn’t that simple back then, and it’s easy to jump on the band wagon of “micro-transaction bad” nowadays, but it really was not as big of an issue as it is now, and ironically the issues now are due to Microsoft and major corporations. Half the game was built by the community and you had to be there to understand the progress. Now those “builders” are gone and the game is slowly becoming a shell of what it once was, with the majority of people who _DO_ want to take advantage of others now being the only ones left. The game taught so many current computer science and engineering majors working right now in the real world solve very complex issues, and the process for that has become more and more complicated and strange as Microsoft has tried to more and more push the people who built the game’s community out by making it not as easy to mod (with _actual_ code) and mess around with. I’m not saying it is impossible nor hard to mod the game, it’s just, different; a bit more nuance that wasn’t there in the beginning. Notch had to do what he had to do because of the law, p2w was very confusing to put lightly because the law surrounding donations and receiving “things” for them in return was not very clear back then with regards to digital items and the enforcement of it was very iffy. Server hosts just saw it as a way to offset the cost of hosting and possibly to make some money on the side if they got more people to play, it was a very mutual relationship with Mojang and the community, then they all got tossed out and many beloved servers had to be shut down because they could no longer support themselves since they were already barely making things work monetarily. Now the only ones left _aren’t_ those people and that’s why the game is struggling.
@@_vizec conplete lack of perspective is the problem. If the eula was fairly enforced, there would be no harmful competition, all these issues you mentioned wouldn't exist. If the community didn't complain, everything would be better. Noone would need to use p2w, because noone else would be using p2w to compete with them.
It is a business.
@@JustThiemo if it's a business then it is not a very good one tbh. This is the sort of thing that should be for hobbyists and enthusiasts first and foremost and if it happens to be lucrative, dope.
@@JustThiemo Busineeses have to follow rules and relegations
It bums me out looking back at how popular our server was in 2013 compared to now. Back then we consistently got 100+ concurrent players, now we are lucky to get 10. Thankfully we still have a dedicated community so funding the server is doable for us without using a pay-to-win model, but I don't think we'll ever get back to the player counts we had back then.
its not because of eula changes, old players grew up, new players have so many free games now they don't have to bother with minecraft servers, I've always played on minecraft servers because a lot of them recreated popular games I couldn't play, now kids can just go play fortnite or something.
I just spent 10 minutes troubleshooting my headset that wasnt working to find out it was on 0 volume.
I remember when I first got a Family Minecraft account in 2013 My friend would come over and help my brother Figure out Hypixel while I would watch him play. That eventually lead us to getting MCPE on all our IPads in 2015/16 and we would play Minecraft basically everyday after school! I still enjoy Minecraft all these years later but it feels like a massive part of my Minecraft Childhood was lost and it seems like I’ll never get it back :’(
Mojang should just be consistent. Giving some servers special treatment isn’t okay, no matter what rules are being broken.
This was a fun era to run a server through. I was accused almost daily of breaking the EULA and people reporting me. It was stressful for the big guys who could no longer pay bills and it was stressful for us smaller servers who weren't even doing anything wrong.
All the people saying minecraft 2 gonna be a thing, its not, its headline baiting for another small game notch is making, if you want minecraft 2, check out vintage story.
Nah. Sequel to Minecraft is 4D Miner.
We will also get Hytale in 2096
vintage story is hella buggy and it doesn't have that "minecraft feel"
Notch literally said it would be a spiritual successor.
@@StefanoAbruzzi do you know what that even means
Why are less people playing multiplayer now than 10 years ago ? Think about it. We group up
Love your videos man, keep up the great work you have a great storytelling ability
Are we really defending p2w servers now?
Yes, because without being pay to win, servers couldn't survive, watch the video
@@TheMisterEpici watched the video. Servers can monetize without being p2w. Get over yourself.
@@Aves_1 really? how?
@@TheMisterEpic so the better solution is still doing p2w? The hell kinda fried logic is that? Instead of crying like a bunch of children cause you can't get your easy paydays from selling gambling to kids find a more longterm solution. Or ya know, mojang bad or whatever lmao. Give me a break I've heard wild takes before but this takes the cake.
@@TheMisterEpicNot being able to survive is such an excuse lmao locking out certain items, perks and gamemodes behind a paywall is bad, you can still monetize a server but also make it f2p friendly like, very long grind able methods to obtain p2w items, make p2w features only result in faster progression, etc
And now mojang might be being sued for this same thing.
Hilarious.
shutting down p2w is good actually, the reason they enforced this is bc many parents were complaining to mojang about servers that tricked their kids into spending thousands of dollars
Shutting down p2w is not good, as there are no viable alternative server monetisation models proven to work.
Until you can tell me some, that are proven to work, your argument will always be incorrect.
@ literally all the major servers on bedrock and java today are not p2w and they’re doing fine, it been years since the EULA changes and servers still exist with a sizeable player base.
That is not true either. Bedrock is different since they have free advertising through the in-game bedrock server list, but on java, the top server Hypixel is pay to win with SkyBlock, mccomplex is pay to win, vortexmc is pay to win, donutsmp is pay to win, amongst many others.
The few higher up non p2w ones I can think of (mcci, hoplite, minemen), all either had free advertising through youtubers/big influencer events (which the average server doesnt have access to), or were older servers who became popular back when it was easier to grow and less competitive. Furthermore, minigame/practice servers like minemen club, cosmetic microtransactions are much more effective, and hosting costs are lower
@@TheMisterEpic perhaps a bedrock style servers menu might benefit java then
My previous video literally talked a out this, it was about how an in-game server list could be game changing, you should check it out
Man, I forgot all about this. 13 year old me was pissed when all my favorite servers shut down.
Minecraft and Silksong show why indie developers need support, they don’t know how to handle how big their games became
Mojang when they see bug reports and suggestions: "ehh..." 😐
Mojang when they see dramas: "YOU'RE GOING DOWN!!!!" 👺👿🤬😡
also mojang when they see bugs everybody loves and wants to keep: 😈👿👹👺
@@nidhu595
Bugs like "dupe glitch" got patched...
Ahh... Classic mojang 💀
@@plokenv people liked the string dupe, the villager bug where you could infinitely cure, sneak-sprint, 2clickMine, etc. im not talking about dupe glitches man
@@nidhu595 string dupe is one of them
However one thing in common almost everyone loved those glitches
L mojang
I haven't seen any of your videos in years, and this is significantly better than what I remember!
And they wonder why Notch sold the game to Microsoft
turkey tried to ban minecraft and did it partly. during the ban, lots of turkish servers (one of which was called "prumencraft") was closed. the ban lift, however most of the servers were gone forever.
"our server cannot survive if we were eula compliant" is like arguing in court that you wouldn't be able to eat if you hadn't robbed the bank, thus you should be allowed to rob the bank
This would be the case if what the servers were doing were illegal or unethical. Many of the servers in 2014 who were negatively affected by this eula change featured 0 gambling elements, and only had ranks as their pay to win mechanics. Selling pay to win ranks is not illegal or unethical
The way this video is clearly biased towards server owners is kinda crazy, most of these servers were pay to win and most of the people playing and most importantly buying things were kids. I dont think that a good enough reason to be angry at notch and I actually respect them for doing what they did. Obviously servers now have a lot of gambling and im not sure if they did back then but it would not surprise me if they did and which makes me respect Mojang even more for this.
I presented all the facts of the situation. Most of these servers were pay to win, as that is what's required to remain operational (as explained in the video)
My honest opinion about the situation is simple. Why host a minecraft server in the first place? If its to maintain a community, then the community should pay for its upkeep. If its for your friends, a temporary server or realms works just fine.
This is only a problem for servers who exist solely to make money. Being the top dog of the industry. Ones who want as many people to buy into their system as possible. There is no good intentions here from the server owners prospective. They clearly just want money.
This logic isn't really great. Why do people make games in the first place? Why do people do what they do in the first place. And a lot of the time that is for money. And it's not just due to greed, often times especially in the case of Minecraft servers, server owners want to make money so they can turn one of their favourite hobbies and passions into a full-time job.
And as for players, there's a reason they played these servers. There's a reason Mineplex, and all the other big servers who got 1000s of players daily, got those players for so long. And that's because these players find these servers fun and enjoyable. The experiences these servers offered, what made them become so loved by players world wide, were only possible when the server operated with the goal of making money.
Whether you like it or not the fact of the matter is, money allowed for the creation of the games most famous and most beloved servers.
"This is only a problem for servers who exist solely to make money." i could count the amount of non p2w servers that can break even on one hand
@@TheMisterEpic Yes, there are other ways of making money that isn't through a minecraft server. I see minecraft servers as hubs for people to chat and play through, not products onto themselves. Imagine doing this on a discord server for an example. Minecraft servers, that are not monopolized by big branded minigame servers, are mainly community based. So it should be up to the community to decide if the server should stay alive or not.
Not forced down loot boxes and locked behind features just to justify its existence. Saying that those behaviors are justified misses the whole point of why to host a minecraft server. Unless you treat it like a business. Which is a sign of greed more then anything else. You want to make money from hosting a minecraft server. Its not because people want it or its an actual passion project. If it was a passion project, then why do you need to beg for it?
But maybe I'm just a bit anarchical when it comes to these kinds of things. There is no one stopping people from making a business from minecraft servers. But saying "Making a business" is considered a passion project just sounds disgusting to me. There is no passion other then for money here.
@@TheMisterEpic I get trying to make a hobby into a business, and I'm not defending Mojang's abuse of the EULA, but forcing peoples hand into paying just so you can do so is scummy.
Look at early access games, people trying to turn hobby into business, does not justify a lot of them adding micro transactions, asking people for 30-60 euro for a promise that the game will be finished at some point and promising to be the best game ever. Servers trying to go from passion to business asking players to gamble or pay for items is the same deal.
Also I feel like the reason most servers no longer get the traffic they once did is because of less active java players, Realms and private servers, minigames are also not as popular as they once were with most youtube content focused on building and SMPs now.
@@Strandedpasta Hey! People need money to live. Are you saying that jobs are bad? Why do you bring down these people who are keeping your favorite servers alive while also surviving themselves?
Honestly, I'd rather a bunch of dead servers than a bunch of gambling addicts.
Here in Czechia it was not that big of a deal, because 95% of servers were for cracked players. I was aware of only 2 slightly successful non-cracked servers, and one of them was a youtuber-only server.
And this right here, is why minecraft is just not that great of a game anymore.
What's the point of a giant sandbox if you're all alone and have nobody to enjoy it with? Servers made this game reach it's heights. Mojang killed them, and by extension, the game as a whole.
The only hope for a return to the golden age of block games now is Hytale.
Going to make another comment on the subject, sue me.
But maybe calling greedy is undermining the point. Minecraft servers are hugely unprofitable. They can't work as a business without external funding. So why are we justifying all the shitty behavior that servers do to survive? Why are we giving them the same privilege as youtube videos? Which on the youtube side of things, is free advertising compared to servers. Why are we trying to keep a failing business model alive? I get it that some have passion, but using it as an excuse isn't enough. Passion doesn't go through without a plan, and most plans are exploiting children or high donation perks. Maybe we should let these big servers die in flames. Since they are only remembered for their shitty practices these days. If they refuse to adapt, then so be it, its not our responsibility to keep servers alive after all.
I guess the reason people want them to survive, is because they are fun to play. At the end of the day, these servers don't get as many players as they do for no reason. Most of the negative press they receive happens on RUclips or social media, which the average person playing these servers doesn't care about, nor participate in, it's largely an isolated echo chamber.
Personally, my best experiences playing Minecraft were on large p2w servers, and those experiences (like factions) wouldn't be possible with the servers being p2w
servers dying without bullshit p2w stuff just showed how weak the foundation of whole mc multiplayer was. Its very hard me to have much or any sympathy for any of server owners who put p2w trash into their servers. This my option 10 years ago and still is. Same comes with servers with any form of gambling
The foundation is weak due to the lack of proper support from Mojang. If Mojang had for example, done as little as provide an in-game server list, a huge expense these servers had being advertising costs would disappear, and they wouldn't need as much money to operate.
And now after selling Minecraft to Microsoft it’s become corporate and lacking any soul, with Bedrock basically being a bigger cash grab than the Realms feature.
We got the EULA changes at the cost of corporate greed. It’s essentially a Monkey’s Paw wish.
Bedrock? Yes. Java's still fine
Honestly, if most non-cosmetic content/features on a pvp/minigame server was obtainable for free but slower than with a rank, that is a better monetization model than gambling. I would have been perfectly fine with Mineplex's minigame kits like that as long as they were reasonably balanced.
Honestly, I dislike more hypixel's coin multipliers which originally came from ranks before EULA change and now network level, which you can get boosted in with buying global multipliers. The coin based minigames offer strength progression, making people with those perks significantly stronger, in addition to usually being more skilled in the game. Getting into those games is hard as most of the few people playing them anymore are veterans, skywars being the most succesful.
The whole #saveminecraft thing was a movement started by youtubers and server owners who had a monetary incentive to keep the P2W aspects in play. They were straight up using their power to manipulate the fanbase into supporting P2W garbage. Mojang was right on this one.
Mojang hasn't done anything right in years. If they actually cared they'd have looked to find a fair compromise.
My patrons [Im also a content creator] pay for the community server I've been hosting the past 7 years. 0 micro transactions and our survival world is still rocking. It's free for anyone that wants to join... but the downside is we see a max of 10 people on at one time dailym
I dont understand why people flock to pay 2 win... thats insane.
i bet your server has a much better culture because of it!
Imagine running something like hypixel with 10 players limit.
What ppl are missing here is: mojang quietly bought bucket! Told no one, used their volunteers, all to benefit realms. Notch and Dinnerbone are no better than microsoft
I had no idea that the huge decline in Minecraft popularity was entirely due to the EULA changes. I rarely played multiplayer to begin with, so I thought it was related to the youtube algorithm.
19:46
Although its not a lot Bedrock does have like 3 more with Hive, Cubecraft, and Lifeboat
Because bedrock is cheaper and multi platform, java is only for pc
1:18 what song are you using here?
Pretty sure it’s Alpha by c418
Another 10 years later... That guy wanted to deal with his own hand
Its hard to feel bad for the server owners after seeing that 500 USD Kraken+ thing like come on lmao
if running a server wasn't so expensive (per TheMisterEpic's last video), they wouldn't need to ask for so much money from the players
It isnt super expensive. You dont need to pay for fancy plugins. You dont need advertising. You dont need the biggest server farm to run it if you aren't already at a ton of concurrent users maxing out the specs of a smaller system.
People just use these as excuses to exploit others.
@@Aves_1 i agree this is probably the case alot of the time, but what that video was trying to say is that the system has become so corrupt that you have no coice but to pay up if you want your server to go anywhere. so even servers with good intentions have to get down on their knees and beg their players for money. its a very broken system that needs to be completely redone
@@Aves_1 you cant make the server profitable without all of these. no plugins = worse experience for the players = no money; no advertising = no players = no money; bad servers = worse experience for the players = no money
@@thatsaylary that's why mojang banning pay to win would fix that, because then there wouldn't be expensive competition.
@@Whatismusic123 Banning p2w won't make servers cheaper.
One person is capable of amazing things that inspires millions or more.
Large mobs of people have *_never_* shown such capability. Ever.
"Persons" are smart, but people are stupid.
There is a difference in between maintaining the costs of servers and actually offer gambling and p2w products. Like monthly rank subscriptions with few small perks are for covering the costs but actually selling packages of like prot 10, sharpness 10 or whatever OP netherite equipment for 150 dollars is just p2w yes. But on the other hand they need to keep servers entertaining, but are also profiting this way of Notch's creation. Its a bit of a gray area. Where would you draw the line on offering products to cover hosting costs, and just plainly selling Mojang's product for pure profit? Servers like Hypixel and Mineplex were and still are expensive with such huge player lists. A simple Minecraft world you are using daily already is pretty big. But hosting a server where 30k players can join worldwide needs good internet and hard/software to keep it up.
It's pretty clear that most of the people who were complaining about this change were not worried about maintaining a server just for their community, they wanted to draw pay pigs in order to turn a profit, spending more and more to snowball more profit, it's no surprise that servers that operated like this died the moment the money even slightly dipped, as for advertising your server to those not in your community you may as well be screaming into the void if you are not on the first page, it's a waste of money, if your community truly cared to help out they would.
That's just not true at all. Most of the servers who complained and complied, were servers such as McPvP, who by today's standards were the furthest thing from p2w prior to complying. If you can't see the fact that many servers who were ethically monetized, were killed by this change, whereas the unethically monetized servers didn't comply and continued to function for a few years, then I don't know how else to show it to you. The servers that died and were most affected, were the ones who weren't as p2w, as they were the ones already riding a fine line prior to the EULA changes. The EULA changes only made the prevalence of unethically monetized servers increase.
Turning a profit is a good thing, it encourages people to invest in their server and increases competition.
To be honest I don't really feel bad about the servers being shut down because they couldn't fund it. Like, yea it sucks for the people invested, but I wouldn't feel bad about my favorite store closing if it was only afloat by selling crack lol. "You don't understand, I have to sell p2w services to impressionable, exploitable kids with no recognition of the worth of money" come on. Be real,
If rack is the only thing the store sells, it's obvious that this store will close without selling crack.
Despite this video being made to paint the removal of P2W in a negative light, it reinforces that such a decision is more favourable. I'm glad I never got involved with large servers, it's just suffocating; from a player perspective
Sneakily chages of the Eula sounds like a tad bit illegal, since the Eula is essentially a Comtract, right?
That's because it literally is. You can even sue them for that. If you have enough money.
Love your videos Mister Epic!!! Keep it up you're a legend
i mean, i thought that realms was just a safer option, if you don't want to use a shady server
not going to lie the amount of times I've been brainwashed into buying stuff on minecraft because every youtuber had it was insane. i believe the eula changes to a degree. also there are servers that would actually just falsely ban you and say you were cheating then make you pay 15$ for an unban or losing all your progress and moving on to a different server. really greedy way of getting money out of children
Keep surprising us with your wonderful ideas. Your videos are a real inspiration.💓😛🤪
I’m actually pretty interested in seeing a Minecraft like game by Notch. This may give us some insight into what could’ve been Minecraft if it followed Notch’s vision. I can imagine it’ll start with no goddamn micro transactions. The micro transactions would be replaced by a strong modding community like Java Edition Minecraft was and is.
I always hated p2w and never participated in servers. Didn't really care. Crazy that fans forced notch into selling minecraft only to probably watch people take p2w servers down with cheats, honestly only thing mojang really screwed up on was bukkit, in my opinion
Wait. The EULA change backlash was what pushed Notch to sell Mojang and Minecraft? Could the internet not ruin something for once?!
So that's probably what suffocated out lichcraft eventually
hearing that BBH video again from when Mcpvp shut down brings back memories. That server was so good, sucks they were one of the only ones to actually try and abide by Mojang's rules and they were punished for it. Their monetization was actually very fair tbh, meanwhile servers like archon, cosmic, etc were all able to thrive for multiple years after even when essentially ignoring/finding workarounds for the EULA
That's ironic how all the complaining got Notch to sell the game to Microsoft, which I'd argue has been much worse for the game than anything in that EULA ever was
now 90% of servers are p2w with overpriced gambling crates
The biggest back lash, is Kian being pissed, at Mojang for breaking the law.
Good thing for Mojang he's a sub 95 IQ Mongoloid because he's been fumbling the ball so hard since getting all that money I think he's going to run off with it soon.
I hope the sequel to Minecraft will be good
non p2w servers is good idk what youre talking about its his game and bukkit is due to someone wanting to ruin bukkit
i was today years old when i learned that hypixel is the only 10k+ one left
Makes sense, since most sever activity is spread far and wide, and most Minigame servers are Dead on Arrival, or die in the face of "I'm you, but more Popular" :V
I'm like halfway through this video, I hope you start expanding on some things, because in the video you just got done explaining server costs, without saying the word "overhead." Granted, that's possible to do, but I have no idea what your daily costs per player were on avg, and then later you say you need pay to win mechanics because otherwise your server would make 5x less. Again, need to see numbers about this, but also, since I have no idea what your avg cost per player is and you didn't give a solid amount of how much you actually make from both different methods, it's impossible to make a conclusion, it simply "sounds bad". Here's hoping your second half gets better.
i spotted this when it uploaded 10 seconds ago. HOORAY!!! 🎉
"You need to pay for server hosting" - Nope, no you don't
"You need to pay for plugins" - Nope, no you don't
"You need to pay for advertising" - Nope, no you don't
Also, all of that can be fixed by having something like open source plugins, or mojang owned server browser, that fairly advertises servers, and server hosting from your own pc, essentially just for the passion of it.
Theres enough ways to earn money w/o p2w
@@Whatismusic123 … Dont expose your home network. Too risky. You can get a totally free server by using Oracle Cloud computing. There is a free tier that can handle 1000 concurrent players. The only downfall is Oracle requires you to verify your identity and provide a credit card. There is great info on how to set it up here on YT. :)
How are we supposed to run server for free?
""You need to pay for server hosting" - Nope, no you don't" yes, yes you do.
Even if you set the server to run in your own home on a spare PC, THAT'S GOING TO CONSUME ELECTRICITY
AND ELECTRICITY COSTS **MONEY**
Does anyone else hear this weird pitched record scratch or "ergh" sound in the video that just goes through the left ear of the headphones?
Sorry I dropped my Thwomp.
fitmc aah title
Hahahaha
Lmao
totally
It's very true how none p2w is hard to keep afloat if it wasn't for the community I created who's willing to donate. I would have been forced to shut down 2 years ago. It's just getting too expensive.
I never really played any PVP focused servers, 10 years ago I mostly played on creative plot servers, nowadays that type of server is definitely dead, and the server I used to play on is barely hanging on by a thread (I'm not active on there anymore), it had a boost in 2020 cause of Covid then went back to barely having more than 20 players at peak times, then for a while from about 2021 until 2023 I didn't play any server at all, instead focusing on Creative Mode singleplayer, before eventually joining an SMP that I still play today
With the current setup, the spirit of competition in PVP servers is marred by pay to win mechanics. Yet I acknowledge that financing a non P2W PVP server without Mojang's support or a subscription fee is very difficult. I don't have a solution, but I avoid PVP servers for this reason so I don't have to lose my items and bases to people who have unfair advantages. In a non-PVP environment, at least the advantages whales have can't be leveraged against me in such an oppressive manner.
Do a video on Minecraft Java modding vs Minecraft bedrock addons
Bedrock addons are as limited, if not even more limited, than java datapacks.
Why'd you include the Daredevil Theme at 12:34 though
Great video!
Love your videos^^
Well that was the closest Minecraft ever got to collapse...
19:45 u missed cubcraft & hoplite.
Maybe it's just that I never played on public servers so I don't have that attachment, but like... if your server can't survive without pushing pay-to-win to a player base of actual children.... then maybe... it doesn't deserve to survive... 🤷
"If your big ass server can't run for free, it doesn't deserve to survive."