Nissa Nissa Is The Key That Unlocks The Azor Ahai Prophecy
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- The prophecy of Azor Ahai foretells the return of a great hero who is destined to save humanity from the coming darkness. But the death of Nissa Nissa might be the key to unlocking the true nature of this legend.
Content Of This Video:
00:00 Azor Ahai From A Different Angle
03:43 Daenerys Targaryen's Nissa Nissa
08:08 How Do We See Azor Ahai & Nissa Nissa?
10:46 Stannis Baratheon's Nissa Nissa
13:53 Why Azor Ahai Really Matters
15:45 Outro 
Развлечения
Nissa Nissa is the true hero of the story. Sacrificing others for power is horrible. Sacrificing yourself for others is noble.
Yes, I often draw parallels to the story of Abraham and his son. Abraham believed he had to sacrifice his own son and was prepared to do so. Most attention is given to Abraham's actions. However, what about his son, Ishmael/Isaac? (The name varies across religions.) He was literally ready to lie there and let his own father take his life. He seems like the more heroic one. Because he chose to believe that it is the right Thing to do. But his Father Abraham feels like he has no choice.
And I really hope that's what happened, because Lightbringer is a very strangely powerful weapon and I think it would be interesting if it got an extra boost of mojo because Nissa Nissa was a willing participant, but I'm iffy on that since the contemporary "Nissa Nissas" of the story were both killed without consent.
@@samwinchester1326that is really funny. Because here in islamic world it's very popular for dad's to reference this story to to convince their sons to do something 😂
@@HillsAliveYTin typical grrm fashion she was probably willing at first till she realized what was really about to happen think of it like the harvest in the originals davina was willing till she saw her friends die and only died when she had no choice
#Azorahaiwasabadguy
I also noticed the absurdity of Azor Ahai killing his wife being viewed as him making a noble sacrifice, but at the time I wrote it off, as a combination of:
1. Patriarchal societies having myths where women are relegated to a function of a man's story.
2. Truly being willing to sacrifice *everything* in the interests of the greater good meaning sacrificing not only your own life, but your connections to others. Basically Azor sacrificing Missa in this way forms parallels with both Jon Snow staying by the wall to guard the realms of men, rather than running off, and avenging his murdered father, and Arya having to give up her desire for revenge, and become 'no one' in order to gain the power necessary to achieve it.
I think your reading, that Azor Ahai is intended to be a fundamentally villainous figure, who happens to accomplish a single great heroic deed, and that Dany's arc is a deliberate parallel of this works better, though.
This Azor Ahai (Not the one in the in-universe myths) sounds an awful lot like Kazuma from Naruto Shippuden!
Like Azor Ahai, Kazuma was also a purported hero. In reality, he was a power-hungry war-monger who was also a bad father!
I appreciate you Miss Hill on the fugaziness of Khal Drogo. The fact that Ned Stark gets more shit then this guy, as a Ned fan is very annoying 😅. Half the fanfare the character gets is because he was played by Momoa. Him and Daemon Targaryen are cut from the same fabric, their both badasses but also very villainous in their nature.
Yeah I'm obviously critical of Ned but he and Khal Drogo aren't even in the same universe, like especially the book version of Khal Drogo has literally zero redeeming qualities as a human.
A based opinion as always Hills
@@HillsAliveYT Exactly, book Drogo is less appealing then his TV counterpart. And that’s saying something 😂😂
@@HillsAliveYT That's a criticism both George and the show had got. The Dothrarki are not humanized the same way that the Wildlings are. Humanizing them would have made a huge difference.
add Stannis to that as well. People blindly fanning over his strict moral codes and dutifulness. He's so not all that. still not as bad as Drogo
I think Lord Davos’s thoughts on Azor Ahai are incredibly relevant. I can’t find the chapter but when he thinks about or hears the story he thinks about his own wife and how awful that would be to do to her. I think Azor is the savior of the world but I also think he’s a villain.
On a kind of different note I think the story of AA also gives us the explanation of how V Steel is made. Slavery was common in Valyria. They did a lot of weird stuff to their slaves too. It would actually make a lot of sense that human sacrifice is a part of the creation of a v steel blade. Maybe the strength of the blade is determined by the loss and how important the sacrifice was to the wielded of the sword. That would
Make Lighy Bringer incredibly powerful
Yeah the Valyrian steel bit is actually interesting to me because I also think that there is some sort of human sacrifice involved, but if we're to assume that Lightbringer was something different and even more powerful, I wonder what actually gave it that extra mojo.
@@HillsAliveYTdo you think lightbringer is dawn?
Literally so after Davos is done hearing the story he thinks to himself “I am not made of the stuff of hero’s”
When Davos is one of the more heroic characters in the book. I think it was George as plainly as he can telling us what he thinks of Azor Ahai.
I've always thought that Valyrian steel would be made like every other Valyrian magic: with fire and blood. A human sacrifice. A blood ritual involving harnessing the power of the fourteen flames to imbue the metal. It would explain why it can't be replicated after the doom. Even with dragon fire available the Targaryan's couldn't produce more. The Smiths of Qohor can only rework it because, even though they know the incantations they don't have the power source.
@@thekrakensdaughter yes!!! That exactly is what I was talking about. That line didn’t strike me as important it took me out back and gave me a damn concussion. Davos is one of the most honorable and heroic people in the whole series. I agree 100% GRRM was giving us a hint about who AA really was in the story. A hero maybe. But a bad person
Maybe Azor Ahai is a well-intentioned villain who does great harm because he takes advice from the wrong people, but then learns the consequences of his actions, breaks free from his advisors, and then tries to redeem himself by saving the world. It would be quite interesting if Bran, Daenerys and Jon were important contributors to making the long night possible, but then they grow up and manage to fix the problems they created.
I think he was a power-hungry war-monger who only cares about himself. Furthermore it's been implied that Azor Ahai was responsible for the Long Night.
It's easy to kill someone for the greater good. But it is hard and more heroic to sacrifice yourself
Exactly!
But there are ofcause more layers. Nissa Nissa as a willing sacrifice could be a lie, told by the only one who survived the incident. It could be just murder. And then there are all the magic levels. It could be cult thing where she or they both believed that this was necessary. And they could have been both right and wrong.
A very magic and literal interpretation is that she was a fire wight. Beric lights his sword on fire with his own blood. I do think this will happen again, but it is only a very small part of all the meaning of this legend.
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 yess. These are good points to consider
And fingers crossed Nissa Nissa knew what was happening going into it, although the mirrors of Drogo and Shireen both aren't exactly volunteering for the gig.
It is also a sex and childbirthing metaphor as well.
I think the Azor Ahai and Rhollor thing goes back to the Bloodstone Emperor and is not what everyone thinks it is.
Azor Ahai has more in common with Euron Greyjoy than with any hero
❤❤
I feel like the other aspects of the Azor Ahai myth often get overlooked so I'm super happy to see Nissa Nissa discussed.
Also, this is probably completely bonkers but one of my friends is completely convinced that the 'lion' from the myth will be one of the Lannisters. He thought that maybe Stannis would execute Tommon but Jaime and Tyrion are both contenders. We have a £20 bet that whoever kills a major Lannister with a sword will end up fulfilling the prophecy. He also believes that Tyrion is a thematically corrupted Azor Ahai because he killed Tywin (the Not Lion) and then Shae (his Not Nissa Nissa) which in my friends mind makes him the perfect suspect for Azor Ahai.
Actually while I don't think Tyrion is Azor Ahai I really dig that Tyrion thing, that is definitely a foil relationship that I did not notice but totally makes sense.
What did he lose at the blackwater other than his credit and nose?
Hmmm…….maybe to spite Westeros he invents a system that he thinks will suck (republicanism) that actually winds up being super successful and popular after he’s gone? 🤣
Balance is a core concept that repeats in the story. There are so many different factions vying for control.
So the idea that Azor Ahai is a villain, a herald of an opposite apocalypse, is a very interesting idea. Both fire and ice are two extremes of bad outcomes.
Specifically about Nissa Nissa, I think it is interesting that you might contrast nissa nissa dying to produce light bringer, might be contrasted against Padme dying because of Anakin.
Anakin trying to get power to protect Padme, ultimately is the reason why she dies and he becomes this powerful villain. Anakin doesn't care about the world.
By contrast, Nissa Nissa is killed to produce the ultimate hero to save the world.
Just some thoughts. Good video
The fact that Nissa Nissa keeps getting overlooked it part of how men in this story look upon the use of women. They are a means to an end, be it children, political gains or as leverage. The power that women hold is greater than just being used in such rituals. George is very critical of such stories and actions.
I do wonder how the legend will influence the story as a whole. I think is is a symbol of the grandure mighty men allow themselves to believe in to justify their horrible actions. How could you be the villan if your actions are for the greater good and survival of mankind? Then again, could you still be considered human if your actions are so inhumane towards your fellow (wo)men?
The Azor Ahai myth replaying always struck me as suspicious because while the three elements used to cool the blade - water, lion, wife - seem specific, they are actually incredibly broad. I have a friend who believes that Littlefinger is Azor Ahai because he dueled Brandon at RIVERrun, killed Joffrey the pseudo-Lannister, and... was involved, maybe, or aware of the plot ahead of time, perhaps, or at least existed at the same time that Catelyn was killed? Or perhaps will try to kill Sansa in future? I have another friend who thinks that the Targaryen Dynasty is Azor Ahai, like they were attacked by Daemon WATERS and his descendants, then they were almost completely wiped out by Lannisters in the Sack of King's Landing, then the House will be completely wiped out by Jon stabbing Dany, or Dany stabbing Jon, or both of them simultaneously stabbing the other... completely ignores the Doom of Valyria and the Dance of the Dragons as near-extinction events for the Targaryens, as well as the role of the other Great Houses of Westeros in Robert's Rebellion, but I guess any square peg can fit in a round hole if you just shove it in hard enough? I've also heard the theory that Rhaegar fulfils the prophecy because he got himself killed in a river, then his family was slaughtered by Lannisters, then the love of his life, Lyanna (ignore me, I'm just gonna sit in the corner here puking at that) dies in childbirth. Anything coastal, rainy, near a well or river; anything related to the Lannisters, Westerlands, shadowcats, hrakkars or the half-dozen other Houses with a lion in their sigil... Westeros is piled high with the corpses of dead loved ones, so you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who hasn't lost a Nissa Nissa, and if you really squint at it just right, many of these people can be assigned blame for the death of their loved one.
You're probably right, though, Dany is the closest we'll get to a recreation of the myth... the core of the legend, the sacrifice what you hold dearest for insane super powers, is albeit messily fulfilled with Dany... it feels very GRRM-y...
I do feel like the scale of Dany’s sacrifice is meaningful, even if it isn’t pure true love. Drogo (and the unborn child) are everything she has at that point. It’s essentially the destruction of her pre-hero life in order to be reborn.
Oh I defo agree that it's meaningful, I think she really feels what she thinks she feels, it's also just completely deranged because 13 year olds aren't madly in love with anyone, let alone adult rapist mass murderers.
@@HillsAliveYT I'm pretty sure there are some real life true crime community members that fit that description.
Another great video!
I agree that Azor Ahai has not been coded as a hero in the legend of the forging of Lightbringer. However, I'm not convinced that he's been coded as villain either. What Azor Ahai has indisputably been coded as in the legend is as a CRAFTSMAN.
And not just any craftsman: Azor Ahai has been coded as a blood magic user.
If you remove the "romance" and "heroics" from the legend of the forging of Lightbringer, you get a step-by-step recipe for not only how to imbue molten metal with a human soul, but also how to imbue metal with a soul at its strongest and most loyal state.
I disagree that: "in order to gain the greatest power, it is required to make the greatest sacrifice".
I also disagree that "the reason Lightbringer is imbued with so much power is because Azor Ahai loved her more than everyone."
The legend never stated that Azor Ahai loved Nissa Nissa more than everyone.
The legend states that he TOLD HER "Nissa Nissa, bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world." and then proceeded to stab her.
If Azor Ahai truly loved Nissa Nissa "best of all that is in this world", what worldly reason could he possibly have to kill her and trap her soul into a sword? He's not just killing her, he's imprisoned her for all time just so that he could have a nifty tool.
I suggest that readers forget about what Azor Ahai felt and focus on how NISSA NISSA must have felt hearing his words at the very INSTANT before the sword was plunged into her heart. The love, the relief, the joy.
There's a strong argument that Azor Ahai obviously loved Nissa Nissa less that he'd claimed. But for the purposes of making a soul-imbued sword, this doesn't matter. What matters is that SHE loved HIM, if only for a few precious seconds before he shanked her.
Imbuing the soul of water "broke" the first sword.
Imbuing the soul of a lion that probably bloody hates you "shattered" the second sword.
Imbuing the third sword with the soul of a woman killed at the instant that you've "confessed" your love for her worked like a charm.
I love the ending🥲
Oh so you're getting like a Qyburn vibe from him? I can dig it.
@@HillsAliveYT yes, if the brand of magic/science that Qyburn discovered became so influential that entire empires rise and fall because of it.
As it currently stands, the legend of the forging of Lightbringer is almost a story that each of the empires and nations of ancient Essos teach their children on the first day of blood-magic preschool: "here are the main ingredients of blood-magic; blood, fire and a soul..."
The only difference is that each nation would refuse to accept that blood-magic was invented by anyone other than their own countryman, with a proper Valyrian/Qohori/Quaartheen/Novossi name.
Think Oppenheimer or the Manhattan project in a thousand years, if atomic fission was a much, much simpler science and the world was subsequently plunged into a dark age.
One thing about Azor Ahai that the Fandom also overlooks is the simple fact that he failed.
His magical ritual didn't end the others, and if his method didn't work the first time, why would it work now? Itbhas been suggested that some sort of pact with the others was made to end the long night, as seen with Craster and the nightfort giving child sacrifices to the others, so I wonder if the diplomacy so many characters have been trying to learn will be more significant than any battle with the others.
I have even seen some people speculating that not only did he fail, but he is also the reason why the long night started and some people connect him with Bloodstone Emperor and Nissa Nissa with Amethyst Empress
Supposedly he ended the Long Night with lightbringer. However, I think Azor Ahai might've instigated The Long Night.
The assumption/idea that Nissa Nissa's death was Azor Ahai's sacrifice rather than her own has always seemed to me like just another way Melissandre/the fire priests is/are wrong. Like, in text, because what we know of the forging of Lightbringer does not support it.
Granted, we only have the one story that mentions it, and perhaps there are others in what is probably in universe a great body of study around this mythic hero figure. But since we are the audience and thus can (generally) assume that we will hear the important parts, we can assume this IS the important part. Which is that thee long night only ended because of perserverance and self sacrifice- from Nissa Nissa as much if not moreso than from her husband.
So, there are three things we know (and thus are likely to be important) about Nissa Nissa: she sacrificed herself willingly (or as willingly as one can when their provider/spouse asks them to and the world is literally freezing to death lol), she/the ritual/both had sufficent power that her death cry dracked the moon, and she was in a way an active participant in ending the long night- all stories make it clear that the Hero needed his sword and this story makes it clear that important characteristics of her (soul, life, strength and most tellingly of all courage) imbued the blade with magic, and presumably her soul was still there and continued to do so as her husband fought.
There are also a few things we can suppose about Nissa Nissa based on the story, logic, and how magic works in this world. She was probably aware of and agreed to the sacrifice ahead of time/had the chance to try and get out of it if she wished to- if only because the story implies she knew what was going on and it'd be kind of hard to hide that your husband was making magic swords to try and save the world. If we assume she knew, that means she wanted the night to end enough (or loved her husband enough) to be willing to die to see it come to fruition. That the ritual was strong enough to crack the moon means it's likely that her blood was unusual/powerful, likely either magical or king's blood or something similar since that is an incredible amount of power to get out of a death cry. And finally, the way she is implied to remain as a part of the sword is reminicent of warging.
This is why I agree that Danny is Azor Ahai reborn- but don't agree that Droggo is Nissa Nissa. There's no consent in Droggo's death, and while it IS very clearly blood magic, there's no indication that it's sacrifical magic? Because the two do seem to be distinct. Melissandre is frequently wrong about everything, but her description of offering things of import based on their value to you (eg. a spouse or child) rather than their intrinsic value (eg. king's blood) marks a clear difference between the types of magic. Some things matter because they are inherently magical (the blood of a magic practitioner/priest regardless of denomination, for instance) and some things matter because of what they mean to the person giving them up. We don't actually see much evidence of the latter type of magic in text (there isn't much direct evidence of magic there anyway, and nearly all can be explained as blood magic), but for Nissa Nissa to be relevant at all there has to be some sort of power to sacrifice/self sacrifice. And if that's the case then Droggo does not fit the role at all since he was 1. not a willing participant, 2. functionally braindead when Danny killed him (making the 'loss' less), and 3. there's no evidence of his continuance beyond his death (also he dies BEFORE the ritual, rather than during it. Since we know souls leave pretty much immediately upon death- from the Varymyr chapter- there's nothing but blood left of him)
This brings me to my preffered alternative theory- Jon is Nissa Nissa, or will be. Willingness to self sacrifice, desire to protect all of humanity, powerful/unusual blood, and some ability to persist after death ALL describe Jon better than pretty much anyone else in the story. Add to that the Danny parallels to Azor Ahai, and you have a set up for a potential romantic tragedy/subversion of typical happy endings, along with a gender flip to keep things spicy. This works on multiple levels, including the literary parallels between Ned's death (which occured because he wanted to protect someone) setting a war into motion and Jon's willing sacrifice bringging one to a close.
Being forced/feeling compelled to kill her (probable, by that point) lover and (likely) nephew to save the world is ALSO a much better set up for Danny's turn to the dark side/willingness to mass arson than...depression because everyone isn't kissing your feet all the time. Defeating the others will be the climax of the story, but given GRRM's love for the Scouring of the Shire, it's likely the Kings Landing/iron throne plot will happen after. So if Danny, fresh from killing the only family she had left (either her lover or her nephew or both) and sacrificing a great deal to literally save the world has to face a pretender claiming to be her kin that she's already been warned about and a bunch of out of touch people who have only a limited idea of what's been going on but are willing to back this false dragon for the throne over their rightful queen, her having a mental breakdown and acting recklessly in a way that causes mass casualties makes sense. There's also the possibility that, afterwards, she gets killed by/with whatever weapon was/in imbued with Jon's soul (possibly wielded by Arya) which would make some of what happened in the show make sense. Like, if GRRM was giving D&D the cliff notes version, he probably would say "and then Jon kills Danny for killing all those people" rather than going into all the drama about Jon currently being a magic sword XD
George is such a good writer that by the time Drogo dies I felt sad for Dany. Like just pure emotional response, when it’s literally a man who BOUGHT A CHILD dying
in the story, the people in asoiaf defo overlooks the importance of nissa nissa.
but i have never seen a video or discussion online that overlooked her importance. i think the readers are definitely aware that she (whatever she is a paceholder for) definitely matters in the prophecy.
To me, the Azor Ahai legend is an example of something humans invent who understand only violence and destruction to the point that they raise both to a near god-like reverence. You would have to be a sociopath to accept that your god would require of you to murder the one in the world you love the most. If you were not mentally degenerate beforehand, you would be afterwards. Only religious fanatics think up such things.
What kind of god would need anyone to commit such atrocities? It reminds me of the Star Trek: The Final Frontier when the self-proclaimed god tells Kirk to bring his starship closer that he may use it to spread his "power to every corner of creation", and Kirk asks, "what does god need with a starship?". What does R'hllor need with such a heinous sacrifice? A sacrifice, which would only serve to demonstrate how in-human Azor Ahai is and how in-human and unworthy of worship R'hllor is. Why would a god require Azor Ahai at all? He's a god. He should be all powerful. He should simply snap his fingers and all the White Walkers would vanish, and all the walking dead would fall to the ground, never to raise again. PERIOD.
"Any Man Who Must Say 'I Am The King' Is No True King." Any god who requires you to sacrifice, is No True God.
I think JRR used Azor Ahai to demonstrate how easily humans allow themselves to be fooled by illogical mumbo-jumbo. A flash here, a puff of smoke there, and everyone is pulling their hair out and falling to the ground, or shoving a sword into the breast of their beloved wife, while some demon-trickster sets it aflame.
R'hllor is probably just the cousin of the demon the Children of the Forest called upon to create the first White Walker. Since then they periodically let their followers go try to bash each others heads in, while R'hllor and... B'hllor sit back and laugh their asses off.
I'll have some fun - Azor Ahai is a blacksmith, so Gendry is Azor Ahai and Arya is Nissa Nissa. She comes back to westeros and with all her talk about the god of death and Gendry joining the brotherhood, he'll forge Lightbringer using her, thinking she might be be revived. Will she? Won't she?
For "Born amidst salt and smoke", reborn _as_ Azor Ahai in a warzone, let's say the shadow of town put to the torch.
You are right insofar as Azor Ahai is not the only hero of the story. Nissa Nissa offers herself voluntarily, and that is surely a heroic act in itself.
Where people get this idea that AA sacrificed her so that he might gain power for himself, however, I do not understand.
True, he did this with the aim of creating a weapon, but it's not conquest he used it for.
We know a little something about how blood-and-fire magic works in ASOIAF, and it makes sense that sacrificing the one you love most, coupled with the voluntary act of offering oneself up, the combination of the heat of the freshly-forged steel and the lifeblood of Nissa Nissa, plus the spiritual aspect of her vitality ("but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel."), all constitute a potent combination particularly opposed to the ice-and-death magic animating the Others.
As for the name Lightbringer, what would you call a blade meant to help end a cataclysm called The Long Night?
Christian associations have no place here.
As an aside, in the books Danny is given to Drogo, yes (the Dothraki don't do buying and selling) by her brother as a means of securing their future help in his retaking the Iron Throne, but Drogo doesn't rape Danny. He does everything he can, given their being complete strangers and the language barrier and her age and reluctance at the whole thing, to show her that he understands the dificult position she's in, and for a barbarian warlord he shows a tremendous amount of empathy--rough around the edges, to be sure, but very real.
So the role of Nissa Nissa in the legend clearly mirrors how women are portrayed in most real-world myths, where the man is the hero, and the woman is a plot point without much going on. GRRM is definitely trying to subvert that... though I'm wondering, how? I'm trying to think... are there any legends in asoiaf that would pair well with that of Azor Ahai where though its not stated, the twin legend could be centering around Nissa Nissa? Or are we supposed to read it as Nissa Nissa being the real hero, for her self-sacrifice? (not sure what, but something about this rubs me the wrong way... maybe its just the Azor Ahai-centric framing, but I read her death as very cringe, like it was the story of a very novice writer who wanted their protagonist to be perfect and not have to make controversial choices, but wrote some very heavy conflict into the story, so their solution to paint themselves out of the corner is to warp the world and other characters absurdly to resolve the conflict without blemishing their protagonist.) Or is GRRM subverting it by simply swapping the gneders of the protagonists with Dany and Drogo?
Yeah, the self-sacrifice angle also seems a bit ick to me, but it's possible that he just wrote something I find ick. It wouldn't be the first time.
A woman sacrificing a great deal and a man reciving all credit for it is pretty cringe, yeah XD
More seriously though...I think the text is attempting to show both of them as heroic? At least in the forging legend. And the subversion/reflection of real life comes in how Azor Ahai is glorified for doing this objectively terrible (if potentially necessary) thing and everyone else assumes it was his sacrifice of her (rather than her sacrifice for the world) that made Lightbringer a thing. Because even in the very clearly biased telling of the legend we get in cannon (with the whole "why I cannot say" about her being willing to sacrifice her life- for the world ya doofus) there's clear implications that it only came about because she walked into this willingly (specifically the mention of her courage filling the blade).
So basically, Melissandre is wrong about everything as usual XD
....Although I will say, turning a woman into a literal object (le sword) is a new and interesting level of female disempowerment and objectification XD
I always read as they both sacrificed a great deal. Nissa Nissa willingly sacrificed her life and Azor Ahai had to kill metaphorically kill his own heart and do something abominable: DUty is the death of Love kind of sacrifice. As such, I don't find the tale misogynistic at all, I guess I wish the people of Westeros understood just how much of a hero Nissa was. She is basically Planeto's Jesus with Azor Ahai being Judas. (P.S: Gnostic believe that Judas is actually not a bad guy but HAD to do it, even Catholics believe he hated every minute of it, the decision and regret almost made him insane). It 's basically a world where Judas receives all the glory and praise and Jesus is ignored.
There is the legend of Night's King and his "Corpse Queen". I suspect we can't fully understand either legend without the other, but they're both so shrouded in myth and mystery, it's hard to draw strong conclusions. They both involve love and dubious consent, sex and childbirth, sacrifice and sorcery, and global cataclysm.
There are definitely some awful lessons in each that fit perfectly with the misogyny of Westeros. That the most heroic thing a woman can do is submit to a man, to bear his child despite the cost to her own life. That her consent is beautiful, if not strictly necessary or meaningful. That the most vile thing a man can do is submit to a woman or give her the power of his seed (be that his emotional devotion beyond duty, or perhaps the inheritance of his trueborn children).
Ugh, I just realized Stannis may end up doing both at once by burning Shireen: Sacrificing his most beloved to make war more effectively, and sacrificing his child because his wife vaguely told him to. "A woman was his downfall" and all that. Subverting both myths will mean threading a pretty difficult needle, so the message is indeed "Don't sacrifice people pointlessly" and not "Be careful not to re-create the wrong misogynist myth while trying to re-create the right one".
I've always thought GRRM is playing at euphemism and the story is allegorical. That the legends of Bran the builder and the last hero. Azor Ahai, The Grest Empire of the Dawn, and many others, are all fragments of the truth remembered through different cultural memories of the last Long Night. In one place it turned into the religion of R'hllor with the Azor Ahai myth at the heart of its doctrine. But the real events have been lost to time and all we or the characters get are misremembered bits that give the outline but none of the details. There was a great cataclysm and a war that ended an empire. A leader created a great weapon that allowed the enemy to be over come and ended the war. That weapon required a blood sacrifice to create it. That’s all the facts that can be wrought from the different legends and myths.
Personally, I don't think Lightbringer was an actual sword; but the first dragon and it's creation required blood magic. We're told that one of the BIG rules of magic is that 'only death can pay for life' and even though its been theorized that dragons were created by the Valyrians there's evidence that dragons predate the rise of Valyria. That dragons were created with magic does seem true. That they were weapons created specifically to fight The Others leads into why dragons return to the world NOW.
If Daenerys is Azor Ahai reborn or The Prince that is Promised then the dragons are her flaming sword. Also, Daenerys sacrifice isn't Khal Drogo but het unborn son Rheggo.
Nissa Nissa might not have existed in the form that the R'hllor myth thinks of her. One theory popularly put forth is she was the Amethyst Empress. She might simply be a memory for the need of a human sacrifice and a reiteration of the theme of love and duty being opposing forces within humanity.
Rhaego was sacrificed for Drogo. As for her dragons, it should be noted that she also sacrificed herself (she could’ve been her own Nissa Nissa).
Wrong, Stannis is the one true king and the real Azor Ahia. It is pretty clear GRRM wouldn’t name someone Stannis if we weren’t supposed to stan them. That is science. Check mate libs of Westeros.
(This should have been read dripping in sarcasm)
Damn, another solid video and a deconstruction of something most fans were looking at from a totally different perspective.
Technically another version of the Azor Ahai myth is the bloodstone emperor myth and his nissa nissa is the amethyst empress. The Bloodstone emperor is considered a villain. Same myth different version.
Daenerys wasn't sacrificing anything in killing veggie-Drogo. She was just getting rid of the burden he had become while mourning the loss of what he had been before.
It’s just a misunderstood Caesarean, hints for Lyanna’s (2nd) death and Daenerys’ (1st) death
I think it's possible that Azor Ahai, Hirkoon the hero, and Edric Stormchaser are three different people with similar stories, all of whom were needed to end the long night. And over thousands of years, the stories were melded together. The dragon must have three heads. Jon, Dany, and (maybe) Stannis. Jon may not have fired the arrow that killed Ygritte, but she probably would have lived if he hadn't warned Castle Black of the Magnar's attack. And he brought knowledge of obsidian to the night's watch. Each of the three sacrifices--Ygritte, Drogo, and Shireen--have different significance, each of which lines up to an aspect of Nissa Nissa.
I am writing a fanfic where Jon Snow awakens with Acnologia's powers after his resurrection. Yup the same Acnologia from Fairy Tail. Wish me luck.
Another great video.
Azhor Ahai and Nissa Nissa are archetypes that echo in almost all of the plotlines.
Honestly, maybe I’m a little simple because I this the story of the light bringer and Nysa Nysa is that victory over abject evil and death requires great sacrifice. I mean the legend is that he sacrificed what he loved most to gain the power to save the world from total destruction, which could be a metaphor for any number of sacred horses.
In fact it's been implied that Azor Ahai was actually responsible for the Long Night as well.
Also wisdom in old texts is often personified as a women. Maybe killing nissa is more about transcending wisdom for blind faith. Its a metaphor more than a person. Meaning the hero has to put reason aside to win the day since victory will seem impossible? I still like the lone gunman metaphor i posted above better but if its real prophecy blind faith will have to play a role.
Most likely, Dany is Lighbringer, and Jon is Azor Ahai, based on Mel’s being shown Jon in the flames when she asks to see Azor Ahai. It’s certainly true that Jon, Tyrion, and Dany have parallel journeys where all three kill their lover-Ygritte, Shae, Drogo-and Martin may intend for their to be three simultaneous versions of Azor Ahai who all fulfill the prophecy. But we have more clues pointing to Jon than the rest, and it’s more interesting and unexpected if Lightbribger, the red sword of heroes, despite looking like the Night’s Watch and the dragons and the sword Dawn really turns out to be Dany. In many ways Stannis is the us the forerunner for Dany throughout the story, and Stannis himself is described by Marting over and over with adjectives like smoldering and heated and aflame. The same type of language is not used so often for Dany, but she is the one human who has literally survived an inferno and is most associated with the dragons, although I have argued that Jon and Tyrion will also be dragon riders with lots of foreshadowing, and if not them we also have dragon rider symbolism for Bran and Jaqen. Note that one of the meanings for Bran-the French one-is a flaming sword. I would tend to say ultimately Dany, Bran, and Stannis fulfill the symbolic prophecies as the sword Lightbringer itself while Jon, Tyrion, and Jaqen fulfill then prophecy in the role of Azor Ahai the wielded of the flaming sword. There are reasons to think that Stannis will end up as the Last Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch serving Jon, with their positions in the North switching after Stannis sacrifices Shireen and takes the black and Jon is named king; while Tyrion metaphorically wields Dany as her hand if the queen and chief advisor and strategist; and in storylines left out of the show Bran plays a bigger role defending Westeros while Jon and Dany fly North, and Bran works with Jaqen and Arya to remove the threats of Euron and Varys-Illyrio-Griffins and stop the army of the dead.
Another great video here. I love how you dived into the lore and broke everything down.
Question. I keep hearing that if Daemon and his wife been on Kinglanding. When Viserys died, Daemon would not have harmed any of the greens and let them live.
Based on Daemons actions in the book and show. I highly doubt his let anyone who could challenge his wife’s crown live.
Thank you, I also thought this an iffy story. Like it sounded more like a deal with a devil instead of a deal with a higher being
"Love is the death of duty." Perhaps the death of a most cherished one is the price?
The Azor Ahai Prophecy/Legend always struck me as a false prophet/fable that only gotten more deluded and convoluted over centuries as justification for men like Stannis Baratheon, to justify their horrid actions in the name of the greater good and glory. Prophecies always give me wiry vibes. I don’t trust them.
Yeah, I think GRRM has been pretty open about the fact that he uses prophecies more to screw with his characters' heads than as an actual indication of what's going to happen, but any horrific act done in the name of the "greater good" is always dubious af to me too.
@@HillsAliveYT Yeah, I definitely think GRRM put prophecies in the story to mess with both the characters heads and our own. Especially since the fandom can get very deep into the theory rabbit hole. I never bought the “Ends justify the means “ way of thinking.
@Okkotsu86275 What does justify the means?
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 What?
@Okkotsu86275 If the means doesn't justify the ends, what do you think makes an action just, right or morally good?
I read a fic that has Stannis step into the flames instead of his daughter.
That would be a much better sacrifice on his end.
Trusting his daughter, I mean.
Death is easy, living is hard
Areo Hotah is Azor Ahai because he's the only POV character who's married to his weapon.
Maybe
There is another option.
That the story IS corrupted and Nissa Nissa choses to sacrifice herself for the sake of the world.
The myth seems to imply that Nissa Nissa KNOWS what will happen.... what if we take it a step further?
Maybe Azor Ahai was unwilling to sacrifice her, but she took it into her own hands and did it herself so the world could go on.
I personally agree!!! think its another one of Georges deconstructions of Classic texts and Mythos.
How many times have we seen a woman being sacrificed, for the greater good?
from Salem Witch Trials to Greek godesses for men, to being thrown into a living volcano...I think its a critique of that.
Maybe its what really started the long night? (as a reverse) or maybe its all for nothing..
(sorry for the rant..just dislike the trope and hope George does not play it straight!)
As always an amazing take! Hills!!
Hill's Alive + LmL collab when?
I saw the myth as a metaphor for the old western idea of the person that secures safety from a threat is the one who cant benefit from it. So the loner gunman strolls into a town of bandits banish them but has to leave themself because they are too unsavory for future safety. Nissa nissa is a metaphor for power but power that damns you. Both danny and jon save the day but damn themselves in the process. Both lose their loves. Both suffer tragically. But both are necessary for different reasons. Myths simplify over time and one day the story of jon and danny probably will as well. With one being seen the hero or merged into an identity where both make up one historical figure. Sadly heroes are often both heroes and villains. Their actions are heroic due to circumstances more than nature…like the lone gunman.
Thanks for this Video as always a great one. What puzzles me the most is the Fact that no one get's the Apokalypse-paralells from the John-Prophecy in the Bible. But than again most People only know the nice Stories from the Bible which are read to them in the Church. The more critical parts, like Jesus who goes on a rampage in a Temple because People do Business there instead of praying (considering the social position of Jews around that time it is actually understandable why Jews did Business in the Temple instead of the Market Place) those Stories are not so widely known and John's Apocalypse is also part of the lesser known Parts of the Bible.
The Dothraki are perhaps sad when Drogo goes, but it is fate. They are a very fatalistic people.
Ah, I see you are also a fellow LmL fan 😂
The Church of Stary Wisdom is everywhere...
As another person commented below, I am absolutely convinced on the parallels between the Bloodstone Emperor and Azhor Ahai. I fully believe that Nissa Nissa was the… Pearl Empress? Did I get that right? I forget the last gemstone named empress of the Empire of the Dawn. But anyways, it seems that what this story is talking about is central to how magic works in this world as you pointed out. The story makes explicitly clear how dangerous magic is, and the kind of terror it brings. I lean towards the idea that the killing of Nissa Nissa is what both brought about the long night and what ultimately ended it. Seems very GRRM, to have this terrible weapon that is not inherently terrible but the use and intention behind the use of it. Because clearly the bloodstone emperor did everything, torture and necromancy and cannibalism and slavery. He clearly was trying to gain any kind of magical power, similar as Euron. It seems to me that the slaying of Nissa Nissa/Pearl Empress would be the final straw that broke the magics back, so to speak. Unleashing powers into this world, kind of like a Pandora’s box, that unleashed tremendous evil but also allowed for the vanquishing of that evil. And I don’t mean vanquishing like conquering, I mean simply dealing with it. I highly doubt this series will end as a big battle between the Others and the living, I think it’s more of a debate on the use of this tremendous power. Of which Azhor Ahai/bloodstone emperor and Nissa Nissa/Pearl Empress are central to understanding. This whole series is a treatise on power and the role it plays in the world after all, why would we expect anything different from the greatest source of power in the series?
Maybe the point of the story is to make us question the difference between "sacrifice" and "murder".
Oh, yes, the innocent that die or suffer so that someone gains more power is a major theme in the book. It is classic of M. to subvert the trope: it's not the innocent that dies, it's in reality a big baddie, and the one who killed him is even worse (lol). In the traditional myths, the innocent quite often is saved miraculously by some god or hero.
Of course Daenerys is Azor Ahai, there's no question about it. She literally has a lightbringer or three.
I am not sure about Stannis though; I'm waiting to see how the timelines will work. The situation in the book as it is rather indicates that it will be Selyse who will sacrifice Shireen. Selyse is more of a fanatic than Stannis. In this case it would be a different version of Agamemnon, and so another subversion of the "the father sacrifices his daughter" trope, which appears too often in the book (also in several versions).
Dany tries two times to do whatever she needs to do before she succeeds? She is a "child of three".
maybe?
Daenerys wasn't a tween when Drogo died, she was a teen.
Nissa Nissa lived on through Lightbringer. Drogo lives on through Drogon.
I think we're overestimating Azor Ahai's role in this story. Look at the people being sacrificed in the main timeline - Drogo and Shireen - people with king's blood. 'Power resides where men believe it resides', and people believe that there's power in the blood of a king. I think it very likely that it was Nissa Nissa's king's blood/queen's blood combined with the blood magic performed by Azor Ahai that was the most important part of the prophecy.
I have a theory. What if Azot Ahai is the leader of The Others
Magic and sacrifice are never the solution in ASOIAF. They can be the source of a problem, but never the answer to it. I don't believe the stories of Azor Ahai one bit. If he sacrificed his wife to forge Lightbringer, then that was somehow a part of the problem of the Long Night, and it didn't end the Long Night.
I think we'll learn that all he achieved by driving the Others back, if he actually did do that, was unnecessarily prolonging the conflict.
We'll learn the Long Night could have been ended through more peaceful means, but that he chose violence, and he failed. Instead of the seasons returning to normal they became sporadic and created long winters full of famine. Instead of the Others being defeated they were driven into the far north, plotting their eventual return. That doesn't sound like victory to me.
I think Azor Ahai's so-called victory was a choice that caused thousands of years of struggle for the entire world.
Did he sacrifice her, or did she sacrifice herself? That's the crux of the moral question.
But the sacrifice has to be willing to make the magic work.....
Yea I think it's more likely that Jon is the song of Ice and fire after all he is the only union between targaryen that is associated whit fire and Stark the cold north ice. if Dany is Azor ahai what's the point of Jon what the point of R+J=L then that whole theory becomes pointless
Girl please, we all know eho Azor Ahai really is.
Hot Pie.
I mean, they do rhyme.
@@HillsAliveYTOMG!! I did not expect a reply. Thank you so much xD I've recently started my own video essays. You were my inspiration for it. I uploaded my 3rd video recently, what if Jamie Lannister was sent to the wall after killing Aerys.
Wouldn't Stannis Baratheon's Nissa Nissa be Mellisandre?
Maybe Nissa Nissa was a dragon.
If you are talking about deaths caused, Dany is arguably worse than Drogo.
In the series maybe but I don't think in the books.
@@saymyname2417 well D&D have received the info from GRRM how the story ends.
So King Bran and Mad Queen Dany are most likely still going to happen (although hopefully better prepared).
@@dissect123 - Well, yes, if Dany goes lizzard nukes and unleashes her slave hordes she will DEFINITELY outdo her mass murderer r*pist husband!
And yes, Martin told DnD the outcome if only in broad strokes. That's something some people don't want to acknowledge because they just hate how the whole story turned out 😂...
What r u talking about. Arya was azor ahai she has nothing to do with the prophecy that's why it makes so much sense!!!
I do not think it is useful to look at most characters as "goodies" and "baddies". The argument in this video is a good case for Azor Ahai being a much more complicated figure than the pure hero of myth, rather than a simple reversal to a villain. Similarly, I don't think Dany will be a pure hero or villain but a conflicted character navigating a complicated situation. So unlike the HBO series the final showdown between the (human) characters wont be "good guys" vs "crazy murderlady in 3rd reich imagery" but between conflicting political ideals.
Does the Azor Ahai legend intersect with Dany's past at all? After all, Khal Drogo died because he did not follow the medical advice he had available. His death is his own fault, Dany just finished it for him, because he would not have called the coma like state as real life. However awful Drogo is as your basic rape culture barbarian, he could not live as a weakened leader and Dany thinks she loves him. I really don't think she was sacrificing him.
*Later, she has an intuition about the dragon eggs and heat of the pyre, after all, Drogo was already dead.*
Azor Ahai being Evil would be the laziest subversion. What'd be more interesting is if it was entirely Nissa Nissa who chose to sacrifice herself and he even tried to stop it.
I also want the new Azor Ahai to not be a Targyrean at all, I want the their fixation on thinking it must be fulfilled through them to be entirely their ignorance.
Lightbringer being a associating with The Devil is entirely a mistranslation, in the Greek the name Phosphorus is a title of Jesus .it's not used in Isaiah 14 in the Hebrew or Greek.
"It will indisputably her choice" God I hate Existentialism.
5:13 Most traditional religions are a doomsday cult.
He’s a Greek hero did great things but they are also terrible and only benefit him
Dying to save the world sounds like something Daenarys would do. So she would be both Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa.
Stannis is Azor Ahai, he burns his daughter (the woman he loves the most) and lightbringer is Jon.