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My Relationship to Zen
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- Опубликовано: 9 янв 2024
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Nishijima Roshi sounds like what the kids these days call 'based'
He was mos' def' based!
"a guild of funeral directer" That is basically the image I have of Buddhism on general in Japan, as a funeral business. Anyway, I really like what you said in here, Brad. I love the philosophy of zen, I love the ideas you teach on this channel and what I read in Zen books. But I don't like organizations and I think I would also reject the general soto-shu organization as you have. I always liked that about Siddhartha, the Hermann Hesse novel, that Siddhartha accepted that the Buddha was an enlightened being and had much to teach, but that he just couldn't be a part of an organization and had to go his own way. Anyway, loved the video and like the book idea.
My relationship to Zen is also complicated. I have spent decades practicing, with on and off periods, most recently an "on" period. Largely my experience has been with SFZC American Soto, however I've been doing Koan practice in the past year with a White Plum lineage teacher. I'm also quite well read in Zen literature, and Japanese / Asian culture, having got an MA degree from Columbia University in East Asian Studies in 2005. Nonetheless, I feel consistently torn between Zen practice and my earlier obsession with Western Esoteric traditions, and just traditional western culture / literature, which I studied as an undergrad ( I also grew up with European parents so my experiential link with European culture is strong). I'm also frequently torn between Zen / Buddhist asceticism, and my equally strong drive for Hedonism.... hence, although I frequently have moments of great passion / appreciation for the wonders of Zen practice / tradition.... I nonetheless cannot commit fully to totally identifying as a Zen Buddhist.....because I have all these other deeply held identities that seem to conflict with Zen. I'm also often turned off by "true believers" who've drunk the coolaid.....and that's probably a result of my skeptic, deconstructionist academic background.
Another contemporary guru with a similar story as E.T., is a woman named Byron Katie, someone who was at one time (back in the 80’s) a psychotically depressed real estate broker in the Mojave area of California. She’s got an interesting process she calls “The Work”, for opening up your mind and broadening your perspective. When I described it to my psychotherapist, he started laughing, and when I asked him why, he said “that’s called cognitive disputing, and we’ve been doing it since the 1950s.”
Now I don’t wanna take away anything from these two individuals, and I actually find the notion of spontaneous awakening very interesting. I would also like to note that they have both been credited by some with making Buddhism much more easily understood (in a basic sense) in a couple of decades, than Buddhism has in 2500 years.
Brad, you should write whatever book you want but I think your approach and style would work really well to "translate" koans like you did in the previous video. Koans, even when translated into English, are sometimes so deeply encoded in the cultural of ancient Asia and the history of Zen to make sense to people who might otherwise "get" them. I bet there is a decent-sized audience (for zen books anyway) for a "Don't Be a Jerk" version of "Shinji Shobogenzo."
Interesting idea. Thanks!
Just want to second this comment!
It was through literature (Eastern lit, especially the Chuang Tzu) and philosophy (my Western Psych class had a small mention about Buddhism in the Schopenhauer part) that I came to Zen in college. Your first book re-excited it in me in 2010 or so and I have been offhandedly practicing since then. Wouldn't have it any other way! Love ya Brad!
Thank you!
Hardcore Zen is my Bible. I refer to it often and have had many copies because I share it so often and never get it back.
I'm not quite understanding what Zen centers did from 2020-2023 that were wrong?
maybe the reference is to zen centers asking that people who come to sit should be vaccinated against covid ? Brad seems to be opposed to this...
@@4kassis It was more than asking. It was a requirement at many big Zen centers in the US long after pretty much everyone else had realized there was never any good reason to require vaccinations.
@@HardcoreZenMaybe because English is not my native language that I don’t understand what you mean here. Are the 1.2 million COVID deaths in the US not “good reason” enough? Please explain to this ignoramus.
@@HardcoreZenStill spreading anti-vax nonsense. How embarrassing.
@@HardcoreZenI think that is one of the fundamental problems in many institutions. The initial response made some sense - we didn't know what we know today. However, institutions have a hard time admitting when they are wrong, especially hierarchical institutions. It would make some people lose face, and we can't have that now, can we?
We are seeing the same today in the failure to institute new, better protections against covid. Turns out you have to pay attention to the air, not the handwashing and other shit. This would require a lot of leaders to admit they were initially wrong, which is why millions are getting seriously ill with long covid every year, possibly crippled for life. Enforcing N95 masks during covid surges is a good example: It would be the only right thing to do, but doing so would require so many to admit that they are almost completely wrong that I don't see it happening.
It takes a lot to admit that you were wrong. I feel Zen is a philosophy that requires you to look at your thoughts, emotions, feelings and recognize when you are wrong. This seems to occasionally work on the individual level, but almost never in institutions.
I love you for your honesty.
Thank you for this video.
Now I know for sure it's not just me.
Lots of love.
Excellent video Brad & a timely reminder of why I 'follow' you. (Loosely) I agree that institutions/ organisations suck but I too can't shake this Zen thing hahahaha.
Viva Ziggy! I’ve made the attempt to start a sitting group where I live in upstate NY. I’m pretty sure that it’s a bust.
Its funny the first time I read Hardcore Zen - I stumbled across it at a bookstore - for the record im 53 and an "old hardcore kid" myself - and fellow musician - I read the whole thing - and you kinda pissed me off lol! I didnt "like" you. LOL! Of course - I then realized that I was looking for this whole mystical "thing" - an ex psychonaut as well.. lol ... and your book is like "Uhhmmm no dude. Fuck all that. Sit down. Shut the fuck up. And breathe. Be here. THATS IT! Thats all you get! The pretty lights are a distraction from what you are really looking for - jack ass." Im kidding - sorta. But for months after I read it - it it would come back to me - and Id grumble - but Im not a complete dolt - If it keeps coming back up perhaps I should do myself the solid and reread it. I did and now you and your work have been a big part of my personal path since 2006. I even had my ex wife reading your books. I used to regularly give copies of Sit Down And Shut UP as gifts... when I had money.. lol. All that said - its kind of validating to hear that you had a similar response to the man that ultimately became your teacher - Im not suggesting you are my teacher - but your work and words have taught me a lot . BTW - Im not a Buddhist - nor am I a Zen practitioner - I consider myself "adjacent" - and one of the things thats kept me from looking for a teacher is everything you mentioned about Zen organizations. I have a real sensitivity to hierarchy - IM not a fan of ritual - maybe its due to the fact that Im on spectrum - but I was drawn to Zen and Buddhism with the desire to strip away the inessential layers of "Self" and find peace and some kind of meaningful "contentment" in just being. That being said in part - due to the way I learn - just books doesn't cut it - I too am a verbal processor - but I cannot imagine becoming a member of a center of any kind. Does one really need to pledge allegiance to a guru in order to study?
Your psychedelic, kaleidoscopic intro blew my mind. I need a nap.
ah, thank you venerable odo 🙏
“Stupid secular people” as Dogen would call em.
Sitting rooms. Heck call em power of now rooms
SEE INFINITE REALITY and feel your hips ache rooms lol
Dear venerable Brad Warner, that Marx' quote at the beginning is so relevant to that certifying body
What the hell kinda rigged memorized Dharma battle is that???😂
Funny story, I read every day Zen by Joko Beck in jail and sat down and shut up twice a day for 10 months of a one year sentence. When I got out I was sitting at this rinzai zendo, but I'd never speak even during tea and conversation after practice. After some months the Roshi asked me directly what I thought of the story from Zen flesh Zen bones that was being discussed. I said with sheepish honesty that I thought it was beautiful until it was over thought and discussed to death😅 I further explained that a lot of my friends growing up got into band trivia, could tell you the band members and release date of all the albums and such. I never cared, I turned it up loud and enjoyed it. Well he started inviting me to lunch after tea. He offered to give transmission and have me run the zendo within a month or so of lunches, but I declined. I suspect it was more of a lesson for the couple of uptight monks seemingly competing for the successor spot; which seems like typical Zen master behavior 😂 Anyway, that's my story of almost becoming a Zen master and giving Roshi Dharma talks on bad religion songs in my minivan on our way to lunch😃🙏😂
Life is weird
You only mentioned Krishnamurti in passing, but one of his main biggies was the total no no of organised truth. Of course, institutions play an important role. As a small guy I realise that I cannot begin to comprehend the realities at play that cause them to act the way they do - I'm sure they are trying their best, as are we all.
Sounds like you had a cool experience in Japan. I'm trying to get a job teaching English in Japan - fingers crossed! Always wanted to live in Japan since I graduated college but things didn't work out. One thing I know is I definitely won't miss out on American politics. 🙄
This was very enlightening about where exactly you stand in the Zen tradition. I appreciate and support where you are coming from. I've read Hardcore Zen and am almost done with The Other Side of Zen. What would you recommend as my next book of yours to read?
Oh gosh. I don't know. You might enjoy Letters to a Dead Friend About Zen. The 2 Dogen books (Don't Be a Jerk and It Came From Beyond Zen) are an attempt to write a scholarly Buddhist book that non-scholars could enjoy.
'All that is solid melts into air' is from Marx and Engels' magnificent The Communist Manifesto.
Dharma combat in the White Plum sangha is not scripted.
In the US most Zen organizations have gone back to the old style of un-scripted "dharma combat." In Japan it's still scripted, and Japan is where I lived at the time.
All your books are dope
*My two cents on Brad's best book. The reason I suggest Hardcore Zen is his best is because it has a ''how to'' chapter. Until I picked up this book all the stuff I'd read had been theory, koans, mystic BS, and word salad. That includes the famous westerners like Watts, and the obscure Japanese/Chinese both past and present.
All of it was fog, wrapped in smoke and just as hard to grasp.
Hardcore Zen offered me a chance to ''do zen'' if such a thing is possible. Brad said, sit like this, now you're doing it. No sandals, or parachute pants, no robes, no mantras, no incense. AND he said, no one else can give it to you, no one is closer to you, in your ''you-ness'' than you.
And Zazen is mostly numbness, tingling, boring and dull and frustrating. Nothing else was/is promised.
I give the book as a gift to friends (who ask) and I buy copies and mark them up with pens and highlighters, my shelf has #3 such abused and dog-eared editions right now.
Thank you! I really appreciate this comment!
...but did the Mailman leave anything...?
I want to hear about the poop show!
Do you still speak with tim? It seems like you haven't spoken for a while...
It's not as if we are "not speaking," but I haven't spoken to him for a while.
What you're saying about the steps required to become registered by Sotoshu rather reminds me of what I heard from people who became registered (?) Urasenke teachers. Pay a rather thick wad of money (dunno how much exactly) and succeed, the process leaving some bad aftertaste in your mouth.
Make mullets great again? Please not
Basically you wonder if you are secular or non secular. Meanwhile i thought you were about 30 years old 😅 back then the view was 'eastern religion is not our thing', thetes them and us. Typical Colonialism. I did what you did and in 1990s i read words by the Buddha and got into Tibetan, spent years wondering what on earth they were talking about then Theravada appeared and FINALLY i understood what the Buddha taught. My music era is psychedelic too, but not the culture which goes nowhere.
Theravada is by far the most understandable approach for me too. Most of my understanding of Buddhism comes from Ajahns and Bhikkhus on RUclips, especially those with very palliative talks like Ajahn Brahm lol. I experience depression and anxiety and need the palliative stuff. As much as I like Brad and his takes on authority and organized religion.
So you don't like Soto shu because you are not interested in being part of an organization, but you question Tolle for not crediting an organization?
Not crediting a school of thought, not crediting anything he heard along the way - which is suspicious if you're using the same imagery and words as past masters. Not saying that Tolle does that - I'm not capable of listening to more than a few minutes of his stuff. If you listen to J Krishnamurti for example, his words are his own, his line of inquiry is unconventional.
@macdougdoug except he does all time? He's literally said many times that nothing he's saying is new, he's saying the same things the Buddha was saying thousands of years ago, he takes no credit for the teachings at all and doesn't claim to be saying anything special or to be special in any way, in fact he says the opposite constantly.
@@ForeverMasterless If you are referring to Tolle, then there seems to be a disagreement with the original claim (that he comes across as someone without a tradition) - which I cannot comment on (not being familiar with Tolle)
As I said, I don't know where Tolle got his ideas. But if *I* left out all the references to the teachers and the tradition I've learned from I'd feel dishonest.
@@HardcoreZen I agree with your POV on this. But Tolle is pretty smart. By being vague, some think he sounds like a Buddhist and others a Vedantist.
Eckhart Tolle and Zen masters:
“I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats.”
― Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment
Good quote!
Why bother running a zen center? Why not instead, do private consultations? That way, you can control the quality of students (if someone, like for example me, is a shitty student you can refuse consultation). You can charge money. Not because you want to monetize the dharma but because if the student is paying money he is more likely to take it seriously. Also, if you are charging a good chunk of money (say $200 an hour) it keeps stupid questions to a minimum (such as, is meditating while trying to poop at supersonic speeds worthwhile). Also both you and the student have a lot more control over the quality of the consultation (i.e. you don't have to "obey" the Soto-shitsu or whatever drama). Seems like a good idea.
It's not a bad idea. And I have thought about it. My problem is that I'd feel like I was ripping people off if I charged them money to talk to me. I can't get over that. I have actually done this a couple of times as a fund-raising thing for the Zen center. So, in those cases the money didn't actually go to me. Yet I still felt like I was cheating people.
@@HardcoreZen "Yet I still felt like I was cheating people."
You wouldn't be "just talking to people" like talking to the cashier at the grocery store. You would be giving them useful advice on their practice (which is why they would be paying you). It's not much different than psychological talk therapy.
I still want to ask, do you remember me? I'm Brian Dean.
You sound just like those scam artists like Tai Lopez who are like I only charge you for my garbage courses because I need to know you’re serious and willing to put down cash.
@@HakuYuki001 I do? On the other hand, I do understand the basis for charging high fees for courses in order to make people feel more committed to them. I have never done that myself. But I can see how that would tend to make ppl who take the courses stick with them longer and be more serious about them. The downside is the "sunken cost fallacy" wherein someone over-estimates the effectiveness (or value) of something based on the cost of acquiring that thing.
Anyway, zazen is not supposed to be "effective."
@@HakuYuki001 So how is Brad Warner different if that's the case? He puts out books (i.e. talking to his audience in written word) and puts out videos (i.e. talking to his audience in video form). Then, the audience thinks they get something useful from him and so, gives him money through patrion.
The only real difference if he does private consulting is that he can personalize the teachings to the individual he is talking to.
It's still a case of, he gives useful information, then the person gives him money. It's just that currently he is doing it in a less direct sort of way so that he can ignore that this is what he is really doing.
What's the difference between giving you the information in a book, and telling you the information personally?
Ghasso
what did san Fransico zen center do during covid?
required jab
@@coolnormalworld In my view, the right thing. I can't wrap my head around Brad's non mask non vax view but I am still here for the Zen thank goodness
@@t.c.bramblett617 I am often in a place where I find myself disagreeing with Brad whenever he talks about anything other than Zen but I also can't find anyone that speaks more directly and accessibly on Zen, so I keep coming back. 🤷 Whatcha gonna do?
@@DavidDistracto On the one hand I feel Brad should make a clear statement about his opinions about societal rules, individual freedom and wariness towards big brother- but on the other hand I'm worried he'll come across as a totally confused conspiracy theorist. Worried because I like him as the guy who introduced me to Dogen.
@@macdougdoug Meh, I don't think he needs to speak on anything other than Zen, for my money. People are allowed to be people outside of their specialized area, I don't have to agree with everyone on everything, I do think there are some valid concerns around the jab, even if I come down supporting it myself. Pluralistic society and all.