Alright. Let’s remove the trans and deer stuff from the equation and let’s judge steph on competency Let’s set that the goal of the team is to develop safety measures and rules to make Twitch function safely and give everyone a voice. A qualified person to be on this team, in my opinion, would be people who are very good at keeping hard neutral stances on lots of things and are able to look at situations from multiple angles in order to best create rules. What steph has demonstrated is ZERO of those attributes. Just in the clips we’ve seen she - has a tendency to intellectually lie about her reasons as to why she wants things done - she has a disdain and blatant bias against certain races and genders - she meets any criticisms of what she says with a solid “ no you’re wrong you must be a cis White male if you think that” which shows a lack of mental maturity and lack of critical thinking - and the head scratching video just shows a sense of this person is not playing with a full deck of cards - she also states on full blast that she knows people cannot get rid of her which shows heavy arrogance. So right off the bat from Steph we see attributes of Bias, mental immaturity, lack of critical thinking or ability to compromise on subjects, HEAVY arrogance, wanton wishes to use power for personal vendettas, and a bit of mental instability These are not the attributes of a person you want making the rules you have to follow regardless if the team does or does not do anything major in the long run. This person is not fit for the position they hold and to keep them there discredits the entire team as a whole.
Judging her competency, or lack thereof, is what people should have done to begin with. Not turn her into a meme and basically harass her because of her trying to be more "in tune" with deers by eating grass every morning or whatever she does. I mean, that's basically what vegans do anyway and we all put up with them. But because of many people choosing to inject their own personal agendas to make fun of her for being a transgendered "deer," stubbornly refusing to acknowledge her as a female and instead, ignorantly claiming she is "still a male" or even an "it" in some cases, etc., they effectively made it more difficult for Twitch to take appropriate action to removing her from her appointed position for the offensive comments she did make and the behavior she is displaying. Now, if Twitch did demote her, they can be accused of participating in the bullying, or approving of it, and I'm sure Twitch doesn't want all that negative attention from journalist websites like Kotaku who would gladly capitalize on the opportunity to show how woke and SJW they are. Conveniently for Steph, what she calls "weirdness" (or what is surely mental instability and confusion) benefited her because people couldn't help but focus on that in an attempt to get revenge for her "evil white people" narrative. Now she's yet another marginalized person with immunity.
Mr. Killjoy frankly people at the outset were doing just that myself included. Sadly though in a world of billions of people you only need a few bad actors to give people like this defense they need to hide behind. Frankly it’s something that I’ve come to terms with as unavoidable and unless society as a whole can come together and understand the difference between criticism and bullying unfortunately people like this will always be able to hide behind naive angry people like this. Because the news sites aren’t going to report on the hundreds of thousands of people that dislike Steph based on the fact she’s an asshole. They’re going to hone in on the like 20 people “le epic edgy totally funny” /pol/tards or the kiwi’s that crop up to make jokes about the situation and frame those 20 people as “targeted harassment aimed at a trans woman” so they can completely disregard the opinions of hundreds of thousands of people who don’t like steph because she’s an unstable power tripping asshole.
Screw it, I’ll say it. The reason why I don’t feel safe streaming on Twitch? It’s not the trolls, it’s not the haters. It’s Twitch. Their TOS is this looming axe that swings with no regularity and no regulation to their OWN RULES. Until Twitch solves for that, there’s no need for this dumb “safety council”.
I think what people don't realise though when it comes to any kind of moderation is no case is exactly the same and as such ToS are just a very loose guideline not some hard and fast rules. They need to be like that because the more specific you get the more loopholes that people have to take advantage of which you are then in no position to act on. The problem with them being loose guidelines though is everyone has their own mind and that makes interpretation of the guidelines different so almost identical cases handled by two different moderators will often be handled differently. For example back in the early 2000's it was something I was paid to do on an internet forum for an online game and there were plenty of complaints about consistency especially over a certain 3 letter f word that's used as a derogatory term against gays. We had one moderator who was hardline, he would delete any post he saw with that word in and ban the user as he saw it as having nothing but a negative use whereas someone like myself who believes that words aren't hateful, its the context of words often left it because with game/forum that was 70% British where the term is used more to refer to a cigarette and not a derogatory term against homosexual. And that highlights the problem, everyone has different ideas based on their own life experiences and where they are from. That's why you get inconsistencies and you will never get rid of that on any platform unless we are all become some kind of hive mind
It's not about what she identify as or what her gender is, it's literally about the things she's said in the past week. It didn't even. Take her a week to claim most gamers are white supremacists come on man don't deflect
To be fair, for some communities her being trans *very much* matters and is a point of contention. Some people aren't able to see a trans person saying and doing harmful shit without projecting that onto trans people as a whole and trying to redirect the conversation to have that as a main issue that somehow needs to be pointed out and mocked. While she did do and say some *really* stupid shit, pretending that the fact that she's trans (and an otherkin, but I don't think anyone really gives a fuck about that aspect) doesn't amplify the backlash is silly.
@@sere971 LGBTQ or not, if you do stupid shit like falsely call many people white supremacists, or say voice chat is a problem. You are going to attract harassers that will use any insults and attack the person for anything. Are these assholes, yes, should they be stopped, yes. Just because people say mean things on the internet to someone that said stupid shit and has stupid views, doesnt mean they are forgiven for their views and the points made on why their views are stupid should not be looked over. You are bringing up something to mask over the problem.
@@irohjinnouchi2043 I agree, being a minority doesn't allow you to be a shitty person, the same way if you have a mental health issue doesn't allow you to thread people like shit. But most comments and threads about her are only focus in her gender identity, being a trans woman or because he is a problem to the "mens rights". The disscussion is starting to go from "she is a really shitty person that doesn't represet what the council is about" to "he is a man", "men's rights matter", "white people life matters", etc.
Steph has done alot of wrong, she's told people to kill others in deleted tweets, she's been disrespectful towards a couple of groups of people, and alot of disgusting behavior
The main point of the video, isn't about who's on the council, it's about how "Twitch won't really do anything with this council because there's no accountability or metric and it's just a PR move."
Devin, it's not her being trans, its the white supremacist comments. How is someone like this going to make the platform less toxic? Maybe this team could have done good things, but I don't see that happening after the start that it had.
Hes doing more coverage in monday night stream. The first thing he brought up was that there are enough people discussing these elements to not have to cover it. He does however see aditional criticism that twitchs selection has lead to it lossing its initial goal of preventing targeted bullying by selecting someone that has goaded people to target and bully them. Now no one will take this council seriously unless she stands down.
@@RealTaIk If you are public figure, that's supposed to be advocating for trans rights, you better be able to handle the heat. I'v only seen the clips, but from that it seems like she only considers things from her own perspective and is using her negative experiences, to spread more hate.
@@atarashiazarashi1789 Well maybe she planned it, negative marketing is huge for growing in the internet. Even if most people hate you, some people will agree with you, follow you and support you.
What i know about this - There's a deer person and she brags about how she's gonna use her power to mess with "elit white cis male gamers" and she doesn't like voice chat in games. That's all I, an outsider who doesn't really gives a damn about this, know of it. Is this a good look for Twitch ? HELL NO. She's getting fired or this whole thing collapses. Oh and my opinion on this. All it's gonna do it will mess with people's creative freedom. It might fix some issues but will most likely just limit people who actually care about what they do and how they do it. We live in a time where making jokes is not ok anymore. Whatever you say can get you canceled. This will push this idea even further. It's quite ironic that one of the members might get canceled for what she said. ALSO bro get MoonMoon on again, talk with him about his Minecraft cult server and this Twitch Council crap.
@@bluebomber1003 That's not really constructive to the argument, which is on the principals and what she says. If it's a trans person and she prefers to be called a she, then it's pretty phobic to point that out among this sea of content that has been presented. It actually hurts the argument of people, like myself and this guy who don't want this person to represent anybody because they're incapable to carry out the duty NOT because they're trans. Attacking their sexual identity accomplishes ZERO and actually hurts everyone's case more.
3:53 to 4:25 Explains why certain people get ban and others dont. If they have someone Like FerociouslySteph as " Safety Council ", i could just imagine what they have behind the twitch staff ban team.
I disagree that the council will have no effect, when twitch passes policy and gets backlash they can easily use this council as the scapegoat that they were advised this was a good thing
I did like your point made in the video, mainly that more communities should be in the council, but you did make a mistake on what people are mad about the "deer woman" its not about the deer crap, its about her views on the gaming community and calling everyone that disagrees with her a white bigot. I don't think you are stupid and missed this fact, you purposefully didn't include it. From what i know you love research and analyzing, you wouldnt miss this fact
"but you did make a mistake on what people are mad about the "deer woman" its not about the deer crap, its about her views on the gaming community and calling everyone that disagrees with her a white bigot." You're partially right, but also completely missing a *big* element of the harassment that she's receiving. Do you really not notice the sheer amount of comments that the deer shit and her being trans is getting? Even in this very comment section there's a plethora of examples, and I think Devin Nash has cultivated a fairly nontoxic community-- or at least that's my impression, yet you still have dipshits in the comments going "he*" and harping on the deer thing despite having a ton of ammo to use against her from what she said alone, and not needing to go to either of those places. Some level of discrimination based on both her being an otherkin as well as being trans (the former I couldn't care less about, but the latter is a big issue in gaming in general) is present, even if a good portion of people do only have a problem with her for her actions and words.
@@sere971 I dont think i am missing anything, is harassment a problem, yes, yes it is. We need to stop it. I couldnt care less about the her being trans or her deer things. My main point of my comment was that Devin did not point out the real problem of her being on the team. I am not defending the people harassing her for anything, even for views on the gaming community of voice chat. Harassment is harassment and never ok. But people should have the right to question her views and debate her about them. I dont think she is a very good representative for the lgbtq community for those views, even more so now that shes bragging about her power. I could be wrong about views and she could have a decent point, but she is now bragging about her new power, thats not very mature of her. TLDR: I dont think harassing should be allowed for any reason, and Devin purposefully left out her REAL controversy about her bragging about power and her views on voice chat/gaming community are filled with white bigots
Another thing I personally think is with the "streamer council" idea that it might be nice to also get a few smaller to midsized streamers in there as well, as their needs can deviate from those of bigger streamers (also offering different perspectives).
The amount of people missing the point of the video is insane, the point is Council right at the start isn't going to change or do anything about the structural problems in Twitch. People saying because Steph is there representing the opposite of the council have a point, but that isn't the main discussion here. Also as Devin said, she can profit a lot from this drama and actually can be something that she planned even if she ends out of the council. Edit: Also the argument about Steph "abusing power" is hilarious, the council have little power already and she isn't the only person nor she is the head of it, her decisions or ideas will have opposition or will be under judge by the rest of the members and upper managment at twitch.
A lot of people’s issues with Steph was her stance on voice chat being removed from games (at least that’s the impression I got from jumping into her stream an hour after this announcement). Some people are worried she will have an actual impact on the industry by being attached to this project. I’m with Devin, though, I don’t think this council is anything other than a PR stunt in it’s current form.
Excellent video. Always nice hearing your perspective. I'd love to see you cover larger streamers/youtubers on their starting out, how they developed, what they did to set themselves apart. Your talk with Pestily was really informative, but I'd love to get more perspective on what new streamers/youtubers should expect, common pitfalls in the platforms, ways to differentiate etc. You touch on discovery a lot, I'd be interested to hear your take on the best ways to be discovered, your thoughts on tiktok, insta, etc.
Damn, finally a well-spoken, objective and insightful video on the safety council drama, and the comments are all still “deer trans white supremacist lul”. Smh, just goes to show that most people don’t actually want solutions or nuanced discussion, they want sensationalized confirmation bias.
I think the biggest problem with "steph" is the fact she had said on stream that all white males are racist. so, she has a clear opinion that shouldn't be praised or given a position like this.
Daaaamn.. ur 2 council approach is gold. This is what u need to be the ultimate streaming platform. It would clearly show ur organization is here to fix the health of the business and community surrounding it.
Devin, this is the most articulate and intelligent take I have seen on this issue. I want to thank you, and I am really glad to have come across your channel.
I like how this "deer" is untouchable. Not a single big streamer dares to look towards her/it presence. Even if it says super absurd racial things, no one can say shit. The only one close to that is maybe Asmon, everyone else is just walking on eggshells and dancing around the topic. Even mr.debate about truth Density couldn't open his mouth about this topic, his righteousness doesn't activate unless it's Hassan speaking. Dev Nash is also shifting the topic to make it as a general statement about twitch guideline which no one is arguing about in first place. This deer is untouchable.
My first thought about this was how you explained it, but also how they will use the face of the streams as shield to protect them self. I can already see how the next drama of some one on twitch will lead to some one of the council to be more targeted of harassment.
Waking up on Monday. It's cold, it's raining, there is no motivation in me to do anything. I check notifications, new vid by Devon Nash... And immediately the day makes sense again! :D
What are you thoughts on the partnership staff? I don't know if you have a video taking about it. But I want to know if I'm the only one who believes they need to be changed.
To actually comment on the topic though. I truly agree with the lack of effectiveness this council will have. The fact that there is no mental health expert on this council is also one of my biggest things. Mindstate and psychology are huge in this business and in my small stream alone i discuss and address these kinds of things with my viewers. It's my favorite thing to discuss,blending my athletic coaching background into my gaming.
yeah alot of ppl have "bullies" and "trolls" in their chat. if the mods do their job they mute/remove them. or you can be like everybody else and laugh at them and ignore them. there is only a need for this type of board if there are really "toxic" ppl being harrassed.
Yoo very well said. Kind of sad they cant get it together with how rules are enforced. Its a tough platform to manage since competitive gaming communities are inheriently toxic. It does blow my mind not one esports representative is on the council.
You know when someone like Devin has so few subscribers that people in this world are just not worth the time anymore. A well analysed talk as always given with valid points and making total sense. Something very rare this days. Instead 10 IQ people with their boobs out are getting million subscribers on YT and thousands of views on Twitch. Keep it up, I hope you will get much bigger soon as you totally deserve it.
This is what was troubling me before I found out who exactly was on the council -- what's the point? Twitch knows where their problems are -- they're screamed at them every time they post. Beyond the optics, what was the point? Then to see who they appointed (you can guess the specific one) to the council, that made it even more of a circus show.
it's not about the deer things her comments voice chat and few other things she has made comments about it including all gamers being male white supremacist
The council will be blamed for any change in policy that is not applied with an even hand and with twitch's record I'm not holding my breath. It doesn't matter how little influence the council actually has it's the perception that it does that will cause the blame. Best case scenario for Twitch is that they can pawn off a catastrophically bad ToS change on the council disband it and revert to a "lighter" rule that was "their original intent"
you have a point about the negative harassment is a thing. Look at WWE heels or dsp gaming. There is so much negativity that i would say these personalities are more popular than a lot of faces out there. there are points this can backfire if the target was really beloved. The last of us 2 for example :)
Are any of the council members getting payed for this? Do they have immunity? What if one of them breaks one of the rules, what happens then? Do they rotate or are these the members until they quit and someone else gets invited? How were the 4 non-streaming members chosen? Do we really have to have professors and doctors and whatnot for advice? One of them is a leader of a project for an organization which says it's ok to gather personal data under the right circumstances, relating to THE virus. If Twitch wants someone to council over their safety staff or whatever is under attack, why not hire another such staff to overlook and advise the other staff? How about we hold Twitch accountable for its deeds? Well now they've appointed "experts" who could provide additional information, maybe even data that could agree with its intentions. The ferocious one seems to be there just for bamboozling at face value. By now Twitch has seen all of the clips and heard what's to hear. I guess we'll see very soon what they'll do about it and where things are going.
This video seems full of deflections and fence sitting. Not really sure what Im supposed to get from the small nuggets of actual info between all the stuttering
I have come from the future, September 8th 2020, 2:42 AM EST. to be exact and i bring information regarding the accuracy of this video. Devin Nash was correct and is probably a time traveler too.
Ceo’s, positive community managers, anti-bullying foundations and non-profit orgs, high-level individuals who promptly earned the right for this spot. Then you have someone who just went trans.... And that one trans just so happened to be the only one who made a statement saying other people should be afraid of her/him. Changing your sex doesn’t make you a hero or a public figure. Maybe i’m missing something...
Just deleted my twitch acct. I was on the fence because I really wanted to start streaming actual gameplay but people like her made this a very easy decision for me. YT streams are the way to go now.
After that deer person stated those outlandish statements to her livestream, you know gamers will be giving her, the council, and Twitch the finger, and move to RUclips, Mixer, or some other gaming platform community. No one wants to see some novice flaunting his/her rights against everyone that isn’t worthy like an asshole, just because Twitch landed that novice a seat in the council.
That logic is kinda flawed where the best people to hire on to the council are people with nothing to lose. I get your POV of having people with nothing to lose lead the council because that allows them to critique without the fear of any flack from Twitch, but what will their incentive be then to work on that council if not to make Twitch better? VS the people who live off Twitch Rev who have a better incentive to see the platform thrive? It becomes more of a mutualistic relationship vs hey I dont care what they do, Im not going to be affected anyway and even if I do get affected, I dont care.
either they are insulting the fans by putting up the illusion that this council mattered at all... why even make it in that case,..........or they are lying to us now that it backfired.
idk who that stef person is but she identifies as a deer? She really does that or people are just messing around? If she does why would anyone take her or her opinions seriously? Honest question.
It has nothing to do with her being a deer or trans I don't think she should have the pos. Staff as staff she represents twitch to an extent and she made a bad call with some choice words. I think the council could work if twitch takes it seriously and if they want a trans person on the council I know multiple twitch streamers who would repisent them alot better and do more in the pos if taken seriously. As I said if she was on my staff she would have been dropped right after that video. Wish I was a head mod I'd reach out to them as well as fellow head mods and staff work out the flaws. If take point and get the rule and mod staff running smoothly as possible. Push for a mod chat head mod chat mod ability to ghost streams and chats clear stated rules stream and member reporting chat for the rules rules and member blacklist against abusing the reporting system so if you have a history of false flagging your reports no longer hold water and we won't recive your reports. If you end up with a ban head mods have the ability and discretion to review and remove bans as well as the ability to higher and fire mods under them and the ability for our higher ups request recommendations for mod promotions to an extra head mod and all actions taken by a mod or head mod gets stamped with that mods name the higher ups shouldn't be involved unless the head mods and mods arnt doing their jobs or abusing their jobs. Or we have a dispute for the community against a rule we feel uncomfortable enforcing
I'm angry that twitch thots aren't represented. I'd love to know what alinity or amouranth has to say on bullying. I demand diversity on my bullshit council. 😂 Seriously though if they wanted someone that's all into gay rights activism there has to be plenty of better picks than deer lady. What an absolute shit show.
You are joking but they probably should have. You need all viewpoints to be represented to be fair otherwise you risk having a council that's skewed towards one group and effectively targets another group. I don't know enough about the rest of the council but just imagine what it could be like if it was skewed to LGBTQ+ representation especially if they are people who the echo-chamber of their community has made them as bigoted and hateful as Steph has clearly become. You wouldn't find policies that land in a nice middle ground, they would be skewed against cis creators
Devin, "more diverse" you say, so from your list of ppl they were all Americans? maybe some more people from elsewhere on the planet too would be a good idea
Why are you blaming Amazon (who's literally cutting you checks because you aren't profitable and might never be) when in reality, the problem is literally one person on the "Trust and Safety Council"?
its good vs evil their stream i'm guessing. evil tends to win a lot of times. but if nobody cares, the power of negative marketing indeed. on another note, have you noticed that no good news ever comes from the twitch world. like the only time i heard good news from twitch is when Ninja was streaming with the Famous rapper guy.
On the flip side, aren't these guys basically just "Beta testers" for new Twitch policies? If there's massive outrage with these guys maybe they might rethink their decisions?
I watched this after XQC's Reddit recap. I can understand how you can read through this comment section and think people are overplaying the transphobic harassment, but please go look. The comments are literally indistinguishable from a 4chan/pol thread in XQC's comments. He didn't even say anything transphobic. He even tried to do some push back on the live chat's transphobia. I hate her, but this is so depressing. Why do people have to go prove her point when she calls them a bunch of transphobic racists?
>I'm not advocating for putting pro-bullying people on safety committee > Let's put the fucking face of sexism on twitch on it This is pathetic my dude
I know twitch is based in the US but holy shit that ‘deer’ person is so closed minded. Do they understand that twitch is a GLOBAL platform? People in India, Korea, Japan etc aren’t white supremacists 🤣🤣
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Alright. Let’s remove the trans and deer stuff from the equation and let’s judge steph on competency
Let’s set that the goal of the team is to develop safety measures and rules to make Twitch function safely and give everyone a voice. A qualified person to be on this team, in my opinion, would be people who are very good at keeping hard neutral stances on lots of things and are able to look at situations from multiple angles in order to best create rules.
What steph has demonstrated is ZERO of those attributes. Just in the clips we’ve seen she
- has a tendency to intellectually lie about her reasons as to why she wants things done
- she has a disdain and blatant bias against certain races and genders
- she meets any criticisms of what she says with a solid “ no you’re wrong you must be a cis White male if you think that” which shows a lack of mental maturity and lack of critical thinking
- and the head scratching video just shows a sense of this person is not playing with a full deck of cards
- she also states on full blast that she knows people cannot get rid of her which shows heavy arrogance.
So right off the bat from Steph we see attributes of Bias, mental immaturity, lack of critical thinking or ability to compromise on subjects, HEAVY arrogance, wanton wishes to use power for personal vendettas, and a bit of mental instability
These are not the attributes of a person you want making the rules you have to follow regardless if the team does or does not do anything major in the long run. This person is not fit for the position they hold and to keep them there discredits the entire team as a whole.
Thank for explaining my thoughts this clearly
bingo you nailed it.
Bravo! That's exactly the problem with this person.
Judging her competency, or lack thereof, is what people should have done to begin with. Not turn her into a meme and basically harass her because of her trying to be more "in tune" with deers by eating grass every morning or whatever she does. I mean, that's basically what vegans do anyway and we all put up with them. But because of many people choosing to inject their own personal agendas to make fun of her for being a transgendered "deer," stubbornly refusing to acknowledge her as a female and instead, ignorantly claiming she is "still a male" or even an "it" in some cases, etc., they effectively made it more difficult for Twitch to take appropriate action to removing her from her appointed position for the offensive comments she did make and the behavior she is displaying. Now, if Twitch did demote her, they can be accused of participating in the bullying, or approving of it, and I'm sure Twitch doesn't want all that negative attention from journalist websites like Kotaku who would gladly capitalize on the opportunity to show how woke and SJW they are. Conveniently for Steph, what she calls "weirdness" (or what is surely mental instability and confusion) benefited her because people couldn't help but focus on that in an attempt to get revenge for her "evil white people" narrative. Now she's yet another marginalized person with immunity.
Mr. Killjoy frankly people at the outset were doing just that myself included. Sadly though in a world of billions of people you only need a few bad actors to give people like this defense they need to hide behind. Frankly it’s something that I’ve come to terms with as unavoidable and unless society as a whole can come together and understand the difference between criticism and bullying unfortunately people like this will always be able to hide behind naive angry people like this. Because the news sites aren’t going to report on the hundreds of thousands of people that dislike Steph based on the fact she’s an asshole. They’re going to hone in on the like 20 people “le epic edgy totally funny” /pol/tards or the kiwi’s that crop up to make jokes about the situation and frame those 20 people as “targeted harassment aimed at a trans woman” so they can completely disregard the opinions of hundreds of thousands of people who don’t like steph because she’s an unstable power tripping asshole.
Screw it, I’ll say it. The reason why I don’t feel safe streaming on Twitch? It’s not the trolls, it’s not the haters. It’s Twitch. Their TOS is this looming axe that swings with no regularity and no regulation to their OWN RULES. Until Twitch solves for that, there’s no need for this dumb “safety council”.
I think what people don't realise though when it comes to any kind of moderation is no case is exactly the same and as such ToS are just a very loose guideline not some hard and fast rules. They need to be like that because the more specific you get the more loopholes that people have to take advantage of which you are then in no position to act on. The problem with them being loose guidelines though is everyone has their own mind and that makes interpretation of the guidelines different so almost identical cases handled by two different moderators will often be handled differently. For example back in the early 2000's it was something I was paid to do on an internet forum for an online game and there were plenty of complaints about consistency especially over a certain 3 letter f word that's used as a derogatory term against gays. We had one moderator who was hardline, he would delete any post he saw with that word in and ban the user as he saw it as having nothing but a negative use whereas someone like myself who believes that words aren't hateful, its the context of words often left it because with game/forum that was 70% British where the term is used more to refer to a cigarette and not a derogatory term against homosexual. And that highlights the problem, everyone has different ideas based on their own life experiences and where they are from. That's why you get inconsistencies and you will never get rid of that on any platform unless we are all become some kind of hive mind
Pretty much. Twitch is the most toxic part of Twitch.
Not being able to stream on another platforms in twitch TOS is like me not being able to post my food pictures from facebook to pintrest
It's not about what she identify as or what her gender is, it's literally about the things she's said in the past week. It didn't even. Take her a week to claim most gamers are white supremacists come on man don't deflect
To be fair, for some communities her being trans *very much* matters and is a point of contention.
Some people aren't able to see a trans person saying and doing harmful shit without projecting that onto trans people as a whole and trying to redirect the conversation to have that as a main issue that somehow needs to be pointed out and mocked.
While she did do and say some *really* stupid shit, pretending that the fact that she's trans (and an otherkin, but I don't think anyone really gives a fuck about that aspect) doesn't amplify the backlash is silly.
@@sere971 Also to completely omit what she said, which for sure has been the bigger part of the sane discussion is equally silly.
@@sere971 LGBTQ or not, if you do stupid shit like falsely call many people white supremacists, or say voice chat is a problem. You are going to attract harassers that will use any insults and attack the person for anything. Are these assholes, yes, should they be stopped, yes. Just because people say mean things on the internet to someone that said stupid shit and has stupid views, doesnt mean they are forgiven for their views and the points made on why their views are stupid should not be looked over. You are bringing up something to mask over the problem.
@@irohjinnouchi2043 I agree, being a minority doesn't allow you to be a shitty person, the same way if you have a mental health issue doesn't allow you to thread people like shit. But most comments and threads about her are only focus in her gender identity, being a trans woman or because he is a problem to the "mens rights". The disscussion is starting to go from "she is a really shitty person that doesn't represet what the council is about" to "he is a man", "men's rights matter", "white people life matters", etc.
He literally works for twitch he’s not going to criticize them
Steph has done alot of wrong, she's told people to kill others in deleted tweets, she's been disrespectful towards a couple of groups of people, and alot of disgusting behavior
Yeah, but no one cares. It's fine when "they" do it. It's not fine when "we" do it. That's always how it is.
@@dabbingsquidward5748 Nice nobody asked
Anyway to substantiate the call to murder tweets? I’m looking can’t find nada
Thijmstickman it’s a man
just horrible that twitch is supporting that kind of behavior
The main point of the video, isn't about who's on the council, it's about how "Twitch won't really do anything with this council because there's no accountability or metric and it's just a PR move."
You got it, Is surprising how many people miss the point and allowed bad actors to profit from this
welcome to mixer
すたっぶずジェームズ that comment didn’t age well 😂
Who woulda thought literally a month later mixer would an hero
Welcome back
Oh "deer" we seem to gotten into a "twitchy" position in the way we are "counseling" ourselves.
laughed hard on this one cant lie
Ba dum tsss...
This was way funnier than it should be
Devin, it's not her being trans, its the white supremacist comments. How is someone like this going to make the platform less toxic? Maybe this team could have done good things, but I don't see that happening after the start that it had.
Hes doing more coverage in monday night stream. The first thing he brought up was that there are enough people discussing these elements to not have to cover it. He does however see aditional criticism that twitchs selection has lead to it lossing its initial goal of preventing targeted bullying by selecting someone that has goaded people to target and bully them. Now no one will take this council seriously unless she stands down.
Not like the council will actually make a difference anyway it’s just to make twitch look good
but she made most of her stupid comments after hundreds of people went after her.
@@RealTaIk If you are public figure, that's supposed to be advocating for trans rights, you better be able to handle the heat. I'v only seen the clips, but from that it seems like she only considers things from her own perspective and is using her negative experiences, to spread more hate.
@@atarashiazarashi1789 Well maybe she planned it, negative marketing is huge for growing in the internet. Even if most people hate you, some people will agree with you, follow you and support you.
What i know about this - There's a deer person and she brags about how she's gonna use her power to mess with "elit white cis male gamers" and she doesn't like voice chat in games. That's all I, an outsider who doesn't really gives a damn about this, know of it. Is this a good look for Twitch ? HELL NO. She's getting fired or this whole thing collapses. Oh and my opinion on this. All it's gonna do it will mess with people's creative freedom. It might fix some issues but will most likely just limit people who actually care about what they do and how they do it. We live in a time where making jokes is not ok anymore. Whatever you say can get you canceled. This will push this idea even further. It's quite ironic that one of the members might get canceled for what she said.
ALSO bro get MoonMoon on again, talk with him about his Minecraft cult server and this Twitch Council crap.
@@bluebomber1003 That's not really constructive to the argument, which is on the principals and what she says. If it's a trans person and she prefers to be called a she, then it's pretty phobic to point that out among this sea of content that has been presented. It actually hurts the argument of people, like myself and this guy who don't want this person to represent anybody because they're incapable to carry out the duty NOT because they're trans. Attacking their sexual identity accomplishes ZERO and actually hurts everyone's case more.
This video caught me like a twitch safety council member in headlights
Anyone that celebrates not having consequences for anything they do should not be in such a position.
3:53 to 4:25 Explains why certain people get ban and others dont. If they have someone Like FerociouslySteph as " Safety Council ", i could just imagine what they have behind the twitch staff ban team.
I disagree that the council will have no effect, when twitch passes policy and gets backlash they can easily use this council as the scapegoat that they were advised this was a good thing
I did like your point made in the video, mainly that more communities should be in the council, but you did make a mistake on what people are mad about the "deer woman" its not about the deer crap, its about her views on the gaming community and calling everyone that disagrees with her a white bigot. I don't think you are stupid and missed this fact, you purposefully didn't include it. From what i know you love research and analyzing, you wouldnt miss this fact
"but you did make a mistake on what people are mad about the "deer woman" its not about the deer crap, its about her views on the gaming community and calling everyone that disagrees with her a white bigot."
You're partially right, but also completely missing a *big* element of the harassment that she's receiving. Do you really not notice the sheer amount of comments that the deer shit and her being trans is getting? Even in this very comment section there's a plethora of examples, and I think Devin Nash has cultivated a fairly nontoxic community-- or at least that's my impression, yet you still have dipshits in the comments going "he*" and harping on the deer thing despite having a ton of ammo to use against her from what she said alone, and not needing to go to either of those places.
Some level of discrimination based on both her being an otherkin as well as being trans (the former I couldn't care less about, but the latter is a big issue in gaming in general) is present, even if a good portion of people do only have a problem with her for her actions and words.
@@sere971 I dont think i am missing anything, is harassment a problem, yes, yes it is. We need to stop it. I couldnt care less about the her being trans or her deer things. My main point of my comment was that Devin did not point out the real problem of her being on the team. I am not defending the people harassing her for anything, even for views on the gaming community of voice chat. Harassment is harassment and never ok. But people should have the right to question her views and debate her about them. I dont think she is a very good representative for the lgbtq community for those views, even more so now that shes bragging about her power. I could be wrong about views and she could have a decent point, but she is now bragging about her new power, thats not very mature of her.
TLDR: I dont think harassing should be allowed for any reason, and Devin purposefully left out her REAL controversy about her bragging about power and her views on voice chat/gaming community are filled with white bigots
Another thing I personally think is with the "streamer council" idea that it might be nice to also get a few smaller to midsized streamers in there as well, as their needs can deviate from those of bigger streamers (also offering different perspectives).
"She identifies with a deer"
I hate how this is a thing in 2020.
Devin should have been on this council change my mind
He would spend the entire time playing PoE with Zizaran
Yes. We need balanced minds in something like that. Not mentally unbalanced individuals.
Head of the council more like.
@@Pestily and you, I imagine
I'm excited to hear your take on this! You tend to have very balanced explanations of these big issues.
My take is that cinnamon on porridge is the best
@@imkojjan you monster!... I agree wholeheartedly! :D
The amount of people missing the point of the video is insane, the point is Council right at the start isn't going to change or do anything about the structural problems in Twitch. People saying because Steph is there representing the opposite of the council have a point, but that isn't the main discussion here. Also as Devin said, she can profit a lot from this drama and actually can be something that she planned even if she ends out of the council.
Edit: Also the argument about Steph "abusing power" is hilarious, the council have little power already and she isn't the only person nor she is the head of it, her decisions or ideas will have opposition or will be under judge by the rest of the members and upper managment at twitch.
A lot of people’s issues with Steph was her stance on voice chat being removed from games (at least that’s the impression I got from jumping into her stream an hour after this announcement). Some people are worried she will have an actual impact on the industry by being attached to this project. I’m with Devin, though, I don’t think this council is anything other than a PR stunt in it’s current form.
we are living the second fall of rome and people dont even see it.
Excellent video. Always nice hearing your perspective. I'd love to see you cover larger streamers/youtubers on their starting out, how they developed, what they did to set themselves apart. Your talk with Pestily was really informative, but I'd love to get more perspective on what new streamers/youtubers should expect, common pitfalls in the platforms, ways to differentiate etc. You touch on discovery a lot, I'd be interested to hear your take on the best ways to be discovered, your thoughts on tiktok, insta, etc.
Damn, finally a well-spoken, objective and insightful video on the safety council drama, and the comments are all still “deer trans white supremacist lul”. Smh, just goes to show that most people don’t actually want solutions or nuanced discussion, they want sensationalized confirmation bias.
I think the biggest problem with "steph" is the fact she had said on stream that all white males are racist. so, she has a clear opinion that shouldn't be praised or given a position like this.
No cap I've been waiting for you to make a video about this since the inception of the council 😂
I just love listening to your opinion on these issues. keep up the content brotha!🙏
Daaaamn.. ur 2 council approach is gold. This is what u need to be the ultimate streaming platform. It would clearly show ur organization is here to fix the health of the business and community surrounding it.
Devin, this is the most articulate and intelligent take I have seen on this issue. I want to thank you, and I am really glad to have come across your channel.
Do you have any tips for a new streamer on twitch
I like how this "deer" is untouchable. Not a single big streamer dares to look towards her/it presence. Even if it says super absurd racial things, no one can say shit. The only one close to that is maybe Asmon, everyone else is just walking on eggshells and dancing around the topic. Even mr.debate about truth Density couldn't open his mouth about this topic, his righteousness doesn't activate unless it's Hassan speaking. Dev Nash is also shifting the topic to make it as a general statement about twitch guideline which no one is arguing about in first place.
This deer is untouchable.
Twitch: “No politics in chat”. Oh here’s an email about LGBT.
Awesome vid! Thanks for making this. Your content always teaches me so much!
I've never seen someone more deserving of the Hotpokket emote
My first thought about this was how you explained it, but also how they will use the face of the streams as shield to protect them self.
I can already see how the next drama of some one on twitch will lead to some one of the council to be more targeted of harassment.
Waking up on Monday. It's cold, it's raining, there is no motivation in me to do anything. I check notifications, new vid by Devon Nash... And immediately the day makes sense again! :D
Devin got me when he said I could be a Twi'lek Jedi. My man
twitch always has and always will be a joke of a website
What are you thoughts on the partnership staff? I don't know if you have a video taking about it. But I want to know if I'm the only one who believes they need to be changed.
How can you have a council that was formed to eliminate toxicity on Twitch and put the most toxic streamer on the platform on it?
Great points and video as always, keep it up!
Devin, how has Twitch not given you a consulting position on strategy? Probably because they can't afford you. Love it dude thanks for this.
To actually comment on the topic though. I truly agree with the lack of effectiveness this council will have.
The fact that there is no mental health expert on this council is also one of my biggest things. Mindstate and psychology are huge in this business and in my small stream alone i discuss and address these kinds of things with my viewers.
It's my favorite thing to discuss,blending my athletic coaching background into my gaming.
Isn't every streamer bullied by people on Twitch in their Twitch chats?
yeah alot of ppl have "bullies" and "trolls" in their chat. if the mods do their job they mute/remove them. or you can be like everybody else and laugh at them and ignore them. there is only a need for this type of board if there are really "toxic" ppl being harrassed.
This is honestly so disgusting.
Yoo very well said. Kind of sad they cant get it together with how rules are enforced. Its a tough platform to manage since competitive gaming communities are inheriently toxic. It does blow my mind not one esports representative is on the council.
You know when someone like Devin has so few subscribers that people in this world are just not worth the time anymore. A well analysed talk as always given with valid points and making total sense. Something very rare this days. Instead 10 IQ people with their boobs out are getting million subscribers on YT and thousands of views on Twitch. Keep it up, I hope you will get much bigger soon as you totally deserve it.
I think the real question isn't why, but why now.
This is what was troubling me before I found out who exactly was on the council -- what's the point? Twitch knows where their problems are -- they're screamed at them every time they post. Beyond the optics, what was the point?
Then to see who they appointed (you can guess the specific one) to the council, that made it even more of a circus show.
Mixer is very quickly starting to look like a way better platform now
it's not about the deer things her comments voice chat and few other things she has made comments about it including all gamers being male white supremacist
I need more frequent uploads!
Twi'lek Jedi are some of my favorite people
The council will be blamed for any change in policy that is not applied with an even hand and with twitch's record I'm not holding my breath. It doesn't matter how little influence the council actually has it's the perception that it does that will cause the blame. Best case scenario for Twitch is that they can pawn off a catastrophically bad ToS change on the council disband it and revert to a "lighter" rule that was "their original intent"
Asmongold on that council would be gold lmao.
I think devin should be on the safety council
no one ever talks about the Art section haha
Good vid
you have a point about the negative harassment is a thing. Look at WWE heels or dsp gaming. There is so much negativity that i would say these personalities are more popular than a lot of faces out there.
there are points this can backfire if the target was really beloved. The last of us 2 for example :)
Are any of the council members getting payed for this? Do they have immunity? What if one of them breaks one of the rules, what happens then? Do they rotate or are these the members until they quit and someone else gets invited? How were the 4 non-streaming members chosen? Do we really have to have professors and doctors and whatnot for advice? One of them is a leader of a project for an organization which says it's ok to gather personal data under the right circumstances, relating to THE virus. If Twitch wants someone to council over their safety staff or whatever is under attack, why not hire another such staff to overlook and advise the other staff? How about we hold Twitch accountable for its deeds? Well now they've appointed "experts" who could provide additional information, maybe even data that could agree with its intentions. The ferocious one seems to be there just for bamboozling at face value. By now Twitch has seen all of the clips and heard what's to hear. I guess we'll see very soon what they'll do about it and where things are going.
This video seems full of deflections and fence sitting. Not really sure what Im supposed to get from the small nuggets of actual info between all the stuttering
So you are saying we need to heavily bully Council Safey members so they know bullying from all the angles? :)
saw Zizaran thought of you
I have come from the future, September 8th 2020, 2:42 AM EST. to be exact and i bring information regarding the accuracy of this video. Devin Nash was correct and is probably a time traveler too.
I think the people from safety council were on moderation team to begin with.
Deer lives matter!
Deer Gang
Ceo’s, positive community managers, anti-bullying foundations and non-profit orgs, high-level individuals who promptly earned the right for this spot.
Then you have someone who just went trans....
And that one trans just so happened to be the only one who made a statement saying other people should be afraid of her/him.
Changing your sex doesn’t make you a hero or a public figure. Maybe i’m missing something...
twitch seems to get upset about something new every week
“I wasn’t originally gonna make a video about this” - yeah right
Dont forget LI Taylor was part of the gamergate anti gamer journalism stuff.
Just deleted my twitch acct. I was on the fence because I really wanted to start streaming actual gameplay but people like her made this a very easy decision for me. YT streams are the way to go now.
the ADL said hi.
Upper echelon made a pretty good video on it, though his was bashing it alot xD
After that deer person stated those outlandish statements to her livestream, you know gamers will be giving her, the council, and Twitch the finger, and move to RUclips, Mixer, or some other gaming platform community. No one wants to see some novice flaunting his/her rights against everyone that isn’t worthy like an asshole, just because Twitch landed that novice a seat in the council.
Idk it just seems bad representation from twitch even if it leads to nothing will it actually effect anything thats debaitable
If I worked for twitch and saw this I would be calling you and giving you a job.
youtube unsubbed me for some reason. back in the fold
WOW, amazing people with a serious and amazing position, for the power.
then here comes that YIKES of a person...
That logic is kinda flawed where the best people to hire on to the council are people with nothing to lose. I get your POV of having people with nothing to lose lead the council because that allows them to critique without the fear of any flack from Twitch, but what will their incentive be then to work on that council if not to make Twitch better? VS the people who live off Twitch Rev who have a better incentive to see the platform thrive? It becomes more of a mutualistic relationship vs hey I dont care what they do, Im not going to be affected anyway and even if I do get affected, I dont care.
either they are insulting the fans by putting up the illusion that this council mattered at all... why even make it in that case,..........or they are lying to us now that it backfired.
You can tell the maturity of the audience by the length of comments change my mind
idk who that stef person is but she identifies as a deer? She really does that or people are just messing around? If she does why would anyone take her or her opinions seriously? Honest question.
If twitch is smart they'll remove her
good vid
It has nothing to do with her being a deer or trans I don't think she should have the pos. Staff as staff she represents twitch to an extent and she made a bad call with some choice words. I think the council could work if twitch takes it seriously and if they want a trans person on the council I know multiple twitch streamers who would repisent them alot better and do more in the pos if taken seriously. As I said if she was on my staff she would have been dropped right after that video. Wish I was a head mod I'd reach out to them as well as fellow head mods and staff work out the flaws. If take point and get the rule and mod staff running smoothly as possible. Push for a mod chat head mod chat mod ability to ghost streams and chats clear stated rules stream and member reporting chat for the rules rules and member blacklist against abusing the reporting system so if you have a history of false flagging your reports no longer hold water and we won't recive your reports. If you end up with a ban head mods have the ability and discretion to review and remove bans as well as the ability to higher and fire mods under them and the ability for our higher ups request recommendations for mod promotions to an extra head mod and all actions taken by a mod or head mod gets stamped with that mods name the higher ups shouldn't be involved unless the head mods and mods arnt doing their jobs or abusing their jobs. Or we have a dispute for the community against a rule we feel uncomfortable enforcing
needs an innovation council not a safety council
I'm angry that twitch thots aren't represented. I'd love to know what alinity or amouranth has to say on bullying. I demand diversity on my bullshit council. 😂 Seriously though if they wanted someone that's all into gay rights activism there has to be plenty of better picks than deer lady. What an absolute shit show.
You are joking but they probably should have. You need all viewpoints to be represented to be fair otherwise you risk having a council that's skewed towards one group and effectively targets another group. I don't know enough about the rest of the council but just imagine what it could be like if it was skewed to LGBTQ+ representation especially if they are people who the echo-chamber of their community has made them as bigoted and hateful as Steph has clearly become. You wouldn't find policies that land in a nice middle ground, they would be skewed against cis creators
Everyone blowing up over "the deer" and I'm just here like HA they called it the S.A.C (Smooth twitch)
Devin, "more diverse" you say, so from your list of ppl they were all Americans? maybe some more people from elsewhere on the planet too would be a good idea
Why are you blaming Amazon (who's literally cutting you checks because you aren't profitable and might never be) when in reality, the problem is literally one person on the "Trust and Safety Council"?
oh deer
its good vs evil their stream i'm guessing. evil tends to win a lot of times. but if nobody cares, the power of negative marketing indeed. on another note, have you noticed that no good news ever comes from the twitch world. like the only time i heard good news from twitch is when Ninja was streaming with the Famous rapper guy.
On the flip side, aren't these guys basically just "Beta testers" for new Twitch policies? If there's massive outrage with these guys maybe they might rethink their decisions?
I hear its up to %50 these days.
there's no such thing as bad publicity
There's bad negative publicity. But the popularity keeps growing.
I watched this after XQC's Reddit recap. I can understand how you can read through this comment section and think people are overplaying the transphobic harassment, but please go look. The comments are literally indistinguishable from a 4chan/pol thread in XQC's comments. He didn't even say anything transphobic. He even tried to do some push back on the live chat's transphobia. I hate her, but this is so depressing. Why do people have to go prove her point when she calls them a bunch of transphobic racists?
I can't believe people like Steph exist in 2020. Science has gone to far na.
Lold at the idea to put fucking trainwrecks on the fucking safety committee, this is such silly bothsideism (not that I'm surprised, but still)
>I'm not advocating for putting pro-bullying people on safety committee
> Let's put the fucking face of sexism on twitch on it
This is pathetic my dude
If you believe yourself to be a deer, maybe you should have the same authority as a deer too :)
I know twitch is based in the US but holy shit that ‘deer’ person is so closed minded. Do they understand that twitch is a GLOBAL platform? People in India, Korea, Japan etc aren’t white supremacists 🤣🤣
Mega left