"Why Doesn't My Dress Fit" A Size Comparison :: McCalls etc Pattern Envelopes Are Lying To Us!
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- Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2024
- EDIT: I cut out my thoughts about the pattern photo shoots and how the garments are probably pinned and clipped like they are for ready to wear clothing as I have never seen evidence of it. I do indeed think that this happens to make the garments look "better" on the pattern envelopes but having never seen a behind the scenes photo of it I decided not to mention it in the video, I probably should have.
Hey Peeps! The title of this video is very "tongue in cheek" but the sentiment is true. The "Big 4" pattern envelopes are not as helpful as they could and SHOULD be.
I genuinely can not remember when I found out about the finished garment measurements that are printed on the tissue paper of the patterns but they are exclusively what I use to get my garments to fit me the way that I want them to, I totally ignore the size recommendation on the outer pattern envelope.
The companies have all the finished garment measurements and I think they should be clearly printed on the pattern envelope so that you can pick a size that works for you. I also think the garment that the model wears on the pattern envelope should reflect the sizing the pattern company is telling you to make.....which currently they most definitely do NOT.
Again (I know I say this a lot put it bears repeating) fit is a very personal thing and I am in no way saying that everyone should make their garments fit the way I like mine to fit. What I am saying is that pattern company should give us the information so we can easily make that decision for ourselves.
What do you think? What information would you like to see available before you've made a purchase?
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I just used a pattern by Threaders(?) the Charlie Shirt Dress, it has loads of fitting instructions, based off the method mentioned in the comments I think (so you don't need to buy the book) it does specify that you should go by the upper bust measurement, it also has lines printed on the pattern for pretty much every adjustment you might want to make as well as instructions on how to do that. I decided to just try the size that looked like it should fit based on the finished measurements and adjusted as I went. But now I want to try making it again and see how helpful the adjustments instructions are.
I think I've read somewhere that if you're above a B cup you should use the upper bust measurement and then do a full bust adjustment, but that's so much work for every pattern! Some have C and D cup pieces to use instead, they could all do that.
Nape of neck to back waist would be useful, but would also be good to have front neck to waist as well, bicep, shoulder width, cup size the pattern is drafted for... Garment measurements alone would be more useful than the size charts, they could just use letters for each size like smaller pattern makers often do. So many ways to improve. This video is super helpful though
When I did a tailoring course in the 1990s, our tutor told us to always measure the pattern pieces and compare them to our own measurements regardless of the size printed on them. Then add whatever “ease” you want and choose the nearest “size” and alter accordingly (thirty years later and still the same issues). X
That’s what I’ve been doing. I am underweight ( less than 100lbs) and only 5’3. I’m so glad I started practicing on old sheets, and found that their smallest size is even smaller than I am. I guess if you’re small , make a size larger, if you’re average or bigger , size up lol so I measured the pattern and sure enough, where’s the 3” ease when I am the exact measurements on the envelope. So I made the size on the envelope and added enough ease, because they’re pjs.
Accuracy on printed measurement is open to input error. Always measure your pattern pieces twice. Viscose fabric tend to grow or relax when manipulated or worn, so you may need to consider the growth and adjust. I love patterns without seam allowances measrements are easy and you can add your favouite seam allowance for particular seams.
The differences between the two dresses are unbelievable. Your version is so flattering
You’re so right. I used to work as a stylist on ready to wear photo shoots. Bulldog clips were often used at the back to cinch in waists.
Nancy Zeimans Pattern Fitting with Confidence has changed my life. She suggests finding your size by fitting your shoulders then adjusting other areas. Based on that, my size will always be a 12. Using the techniques in her book, altering the rest of the pattern, if need be, is incredibly easy and quick using her slide and pivot technique. I absolutely love sewing big 4 patterns since having found this book. I am no longer confused by what the envelope says. It has eliminated any doubt or frustration I had making these patterns. It's made everything so easy and my makes fit so well! I encourage everyone who has fitting trouble to read this and to give it a try.
This is awesome and I shall totally be checking out the book. I think it's bad that a separate book is necessary though. Fingers crossed that the envelopes will change. Thank you again for the recommendation 😊
Very interesting. I love watching her videos. I will check this out
I to have been using Nancy's fit book plus her video tape (shows how long ago I started witht
Oops! Anyhoo I thoroughly recommend Nancy's technique. Nowadays I often draft my own patterns as by using Nancy's method I have my own personal bodice block. Doesn't stop me buying other patterns though !! Happy stitching 😀 Caroline R-G
I also used Nancy’s method religiously. I found one of her old books dirt cheap on Amazon when I first started sewing. Over time I’ve also learned since I have a moderate sized chest that I don’t even have to adjust anything. I instead just use a 1/2 inch SA instead of 5/8!
All so TRUE, I have just made a vogue coat and went off the pattern measurements which have turned out to be well out to what it said. I also agree that home sewing is very difficult once you're a senior with ample breasts.
I only learned that the bust measurement for the ‘big 4’ refers to the upper bust measurement from watching sewing tutorials. And that is correct information. If my bust is 38” and I cut out size 16, the shoulders are too wide and there is too much ease at the bust line. My upper bust measurement is 36” and that is size 14 and the blouse fits!!!! I have only had to 🙃 lower bust darts an inch and the finished garment is great! Believe me, I ALWAYS seek guidance before I jump into sewing. I make the muslin, too!! Merry Christmas Sian and to your lovely parents and kitty, too!!! 🌲🎼🎺🔥🥂
Everything you have said has always been a real frustration for home sewers. I am 73 and have been sewing since I was very young. I have always had trouble fitting myself, but for some reason found it was a tad easier for my little girls!!! Because I am very full-busted and only 5' 1", I have struggled for years. It has only been the last 10 years that I found how to do a full bust adjustment, which was a true blessing. Thanks again. I am so happy that Rachel mentioned you in her vlogs. Love your vlogs.
Totally agree with you. Finally someone with the gumption to say something! Why do you think there are so many private other pattern companies now! Love the comment about Nancy’s book. Will look for that one. We should write to the Big Four, asking to include these measurements on the envelope. Love your dress.
I'd like to see a shoulder width measurement. Especially on knit patterns. I want my sleeves to start in the proper place so I can move easily.
That would probably help me too, I have narrow shoulders so things often are a bit weird on my shoulders. (Not that I'd know how to fix it yet)
somebody below has probably reiterated this, but yes, the majority of the patterns assume a B cup and the best fit at the shoulder/upper chest is to go by your upper chest measurement. I agree about putting finished measurements on the back of the pattern!
Yes yes yes! Agree 💯 % with everything you’ve said here Sian!
Big 4 take a note of what’s being said in the comments.... 👂
How much money are you losing out on by not sharing proper information with sewists?
Many comments saying people had tried and given up sewing because of this issue...
I wonder how many customers never returned to you??? 🤔
And now with the rise of indie pattern designers you don’t have the monopoly you used to have... 😜
I’ve had this issue myself. I’m a curvy plus size sewist and I am so grateful that I had a year of sewing lessons before the first lockdown.
But not everyone is that lucky.
Proper ease and measurements please!
Thank you for going to all this trouble to illustrate this situation Sian! 👏🙏🤗
I believe I learned from watching Sewing with Nancy that by using the upper bust measurement the shoulders would fit. And it’s easier to fix the rest of a garment’s fit as opposed to the shoulders. As for the “arbitrary ease”, if you are a slimmer person it will be particularly annoying but as a fuller figured person not so much. But remember you can cut away fabric but adding it is not always as easy. I also thoroughly agree on those finished garment measurements. Giving me the finished dimensions for back length is not helpful when my trouble spot is my waist.
What I find funny is I'm measuring myself to see what size I need for Butterick 6702 which comes with separate pieces for the different cup sizes and it SAYS I should make for an A/B cup but I know for a fact that I am not an A/B cup, haven't been that small since I was a preteen and I won't be making an A/B cup in my dress. I also find that the instructions for different pattern companies are SOOOO hard and convoluted to follow, especially (as I have been finding out) with Simplicity patterns, they add steps (or leave them out) in places they should (or should not) do. I love the big 4 pattern companies but come on give us patterns that are 1. Easy to figure out what we need to make size wise. and 2. instructions you don't need a degree to figure out how to do it!
Well said Sian, the difference in the two dresses was immediately obvious and the size you chose was far and away the better fit on you.
I am so glad you made this video. I have been sewing for over 40 years and lately have had a lot of trouble with McCalls patterns in particular. I tend to like working with Vogue or Butterick patterns as the details in the patterns enables me to get a nicer fit. I have also encountered several patterns with poorly written or missing instruction points. Although, I own a lot of McCalls patterns I must say that they are not my favorites and I spend a lot of time making needed adjustments to make the garments fit properly. I am also picky about fabric selection as that is key to getting a great looking garment! Thank you for your awesome videos!
Thank you for this video. I can’t tell you how many garments I have made that I followed the measurements on the pattern envelope only to find the garments way too big. I have found this with the “Big 4” and Style Arc patterns. You have helped me find my “sew-jo” again!
Good to know about StyleArc. I haven't seen any indie patterns yet, but I have a few.
I have narrow shoulder point to point. It would be helpful to have that measurement in my opinion. I could definitely see a difference in the two dresses. I have learned so much from your channel in fitting patterns to fit me. I also love Nancy Ziemans pattern fitting with confidence. I have the book and watch her RUclips tutorials as well.
The upper/full bust thing is to figure out a starting point if you have a large cup size, so you can make sure the pattern fits your shoulders and back and do a full bust adjustment. In theory, their standard size chart assumes that your full bust is 2” larger than your upper bust (pattern cup size B). My upper bust is 44” and full bust is about 49” (pattern cup size ~DD/E), but I also like slightly less ease across the full bust than a pattern typically gives. So I often do a pattern size 22 and a 3-4” FBA to get a pretty good fit with minimal further adjustment. The other big benefit of doing a FBA rather than sizing up is that it gives more length over the bust so that it doesn’t pull the style lines too far up. I’m quite short waisted for my height, with a proportionally high apex, and I typically have to take about an inch out of many bodices to make them fit my back and sides. Making sure there’s still enough length over the bust/center front is a big deal.
Oh my gosh, I’m looking at the pattern envelope and the finished measurements are there! For bust anyway. I got here by chance, so funny! I was googling McCall’s bust measuring and it turns out this is the dress I’m making. Aw I just love you sharing your experience, thank you! And I’m glad they’ve partially listened to you! No bicep or waist, but bust is better than nothing! 😄😃
Totally agree with all your comments. I have over 40 years experience in garment construction, and have never been so frustrated with garment sewing patterns as I am with today's patterns. I truly enjoy sewing, but the joy is slowly being reduced by pattern inaccuracies. Thanks for your post; hopefully it will gain attention.
Absolutely!!! Finished garment measurements on the back of a pattern envelope would be a game changer! 💜💗
Having trouble fitting is why I quit sewing years ago. Now I am going to give sewing a go again, I hope I am not too discouraged. Thank you for doing this video.
The upper bust thing is sometimes what’s mistakenly recommended when you need to do an FBA. I always need FBAs, so when I look at the big 4 patterns, I would subtract 2 from the bust measurement to figure out what the high bust measurement is for that pattern and go based off of that. That being said, I don’t use big 4 because of the lack of finished garment measurements on the envelope and having to do a 2-2.5” FBA (4-5” added total). The insane ease that you’re mentioning is another reason. If I can’t trust the actual numbers printed on the pattern pieces, what’s the point?
I’ve been sewing for 30+ years and only found out in the last couple about the finished garment measurements being printed on the pattern. And as you’ve proved, this still means nothing! I’ve also been victim to making the pattern according to my RTW size (dinner date with a ex boyfriend and his parents and could barely eat anything). Also, if there are two pattern packets for the same garment, I’m on the borderline between the two so I’ve no way of knowing if I need the smaller size or the larger one. I’ve moved away from the big 4 as the indies do it so much better.
I also wish the older patterns had searchable hashtags. It is really hard searching on Instagram for examples of garments on real people.
Excellent video!
Totally agree. The arbitrary ease is very frustrating because you can't use what you learned from previous makes. Every one is starting over from scratch with a lot of work and it's a reason why I will often lean towards independent patterns instead.
I agree with you!
All that you said plus armsythe. I am athletic and need this extra room. Thank you for your video. Creating my own bodice block to help judge pattern tissues.
Totally agree! I got back into sewing a few years ago and bought a pattern based on the measurements and had to take it in so much, it was smaller than the smallest size in that range and wasted so much fabric.
I agree with your frustration. I must, must have the finished waist size, accurately. As an older, rectangular apple I have had to give up on the big 4 patterns. I have many but have been afraid to use them again.
Thank you, thank you for requesting what we all need! There is no reason they cannot put all the needed information on the pattern. At the very least I would like to see high/full bust measurement, length from neck to waist, length from waist to hem bottom added to the envelope. And they should all include full bust variations.
I agree with you on the fact that when I make a pattern with the recommended size, I want it to fit like the picture looks. I don’t really care what the finished size is per se except that I want it to look like the picture. The fullness of skirts is another thing. Ps I never knew that finished garment measurements were on the pattern pieces until I heard you say that. Never noticed them before.
I recently watched the By Hand London webinar on Fitting for beginners and it was a revelation in terms of choosing the right size to start with. I highly recommend it. Very good value and I believe still accessible from their website. There will still be adjustments to make but choosing the best starting point helps. And yes more info on the pattern envelopes would be useful.
I recently started a sewing bullet journal. For each pattern I have a table that lists my measurements, pattern's recommended size for my measurements, pattern's recommended ease (calculated by subtraction), my final choice of size, my final choice's ease (calculated). I kinda guess my final size by wiggling my tape measurer against my body at those length options and seeing if I like that fit. Usually my preferred option is 1-3 inches ease depending on the cut and placement for something that is fitted in that area. I have some patterns that would have recommended adding 6"+ positive ease on fitted stretchy knit clothes. Then I have a whole section to list adjustments that I did such as widening and lengthening the arms, shortening the skirt, or raise/lower the neckline.
yessss!! to a great video ... yeah to wised up sewists ... it pisses me off big time this 'mystery about the difference between the advertised/pictured garment and what a sewist actually gets after spending hours and $$ on fabric, not to mention lost dreams and self esteme ... I made my first vogue pattern at 14, it didn't fit. I continued trying with them for years and years, ended up hating myself because nothing fit and it was a mystery to me as to why they didn't ...I eventually wised up. But lots of sewists just give up. We don't put up with false advertising in other areas of our life, we don't need to put up with it here. I don't buy them anymore. I draft my own patterns now off my own slopers. Commercial patterns makers stop lying and being mysterious and offering this minimal info that only the initiated understand how to 'work'. Hmmm pretty angry it seems -still- after all these years.
It is so disheartening as a new seamstress. I have only made a couple of dresses and they were just….. disappointing. They ended up looking ill fitting and I just blamed my body for being ‘wrong’ and was put off sewing for some time. I also do not have the expertise to know where the extra length should be added (at 6 foot tall, it is unlikely that I will not need to add some length somewhere to just about anything I make).
The more information provided about the pattern - the better! I am happy to look for that information elsewhere (although being clear on the pattern envelope would of course be the most useful!). Thank you for highlighting this, I will certainly pass this video on to others who are also new to sewing in the future!
I once took a class from Sandra Bettina, and the big revelation for me was that she revealed that in trying to attract the customer by requiring the least amount of material, the pattern fabric volume would not support the bias cut version of the finished product, which was the version pictured. That she said was the difference between a garment that looked professional (as pictured on the pattern), and one that looked "homemade." That information changed everything for me--I had just begun to sew for my five daughters and I woul have given up sewing as not worth the effort except for that enlightenment!
Betzina, dang spell check...
I appreciate your video and JUST found it because I want to make McCalls M6791 for my daughter for Christmas. When I compared her measurements to the envelope the resulting size was unbelievably large and she hates baggy clothes!
Other than just a thumbs up, I wanted to mention this: when reading the (Melissa Watson) directions inside it does say to ‘measure your high bust and use that in place of bust on the measurement’... I am with you regarding this, not only didn't know but have no idea why this is even a real thing. Anyway... thank you for your video.
Thank you for this vlog,it's really needed.Firstly,I've been , properly,sewing for 51 years and the bust measurement is the bust measurement NOT the upper bust measurement. I think it would have been easier to see the difference in the dresses if they had been made up in a plain fabric.I can easily see the difference but others may not and that's why I think some may not fully grasp the difference.I do realise there's a cost in making garments but for this experiment a cheaper toile fabric could have been used and then the difference would easily have been seen. I agree, totally,in what your saying. Pattern companies need to realise that since the internet even beginners have so much more access to be able to sew more competently so these measurements are a must.When I first started sewing I chose my size ,in 1970 sizes, a size 8,they , completely ,drown me. I know Indie patterns give more information but their different size markers,numbers letters etc.do not , necessarily,equate to the larger sizes their aiming at.Some pattern companies size 22 is the same as others 30.Checking the measurements is a must. I bought a Tilly and the button loose dress pattern up to a size 20.On checking the measurements. I did not fit into it.We decided to use it for my daughter,she is a size 10 rtw and needed a size 20 .I know pattern sizes are not the same as rtw but there should be a better comparison.The cost of indie are also so expensive and many new sewers seem to choose these rather than the big four.If the big four put the information your suggesting on their envelopes maybe more RUclipsrs and beginners would use them.I know you do and the variety of designs they offer is great.Like indie patterns ,once you've found the big four that suits your shape there are less alterations needed. This does not negate the big four pattern companies from supplying all the necessary measurements on the pattern envelope as well as online as this experiment of yours shows.
Even ready-to-wear catalogs show a model who's wearing something that has been clothes pinned tighter for the photo. For lengthen and shorten lines, if you have a larger bust, you probably also have a lower bust, so the lengthen or shorten line should be above the bustline. If you are shorter-waisted, the lengthen or shorten line should be between the bust and the waist.
That larger dress you made looks like it would be a great maternity version 😂😂😂 I love seeing your comparison, your sizing looks much better. You're right, finished garment measurements are so very useful.
They definitely need to advertise the ease within the patterns on the envelope along with the finished measurements. Each pattern has a different wearing ease depending on the styles. I'm a plus sized sewist and many times I don't purchase a pattern because the hip measurements don't go large enough, yet when you see others make them up they look awesome and full of wearing ease! So even if the measurements on the envelope shows the pattern fitting specific measurements the pattern could actually fit much larger and look fitted vs encompassed in fabric and looking dowdy! I know plus size patterns are hard to create with the various sizings but I find they are either made for very tall broad shouldered women or for apple shaped women , very fitted and tents! Where is the in between? Maybe they need to put on the model's measurements and what size of dress she is wearing on the FRONT of the envelope! Another thing specially for plus sized patterns for pants, the thigh measurement!
I have the hip issue too. Often 2-3 sizes diff from waist. I started buying for my upper half & adj/grade out for the lower. Blouses/dresses only. Pants are a whole separate issue.
Thank you so much for this video. I have been struggling with sizing (only been "properly" sewing for a couple years now). I will pay closer attention to the finished measurements. Also, I watched one of your sew-alongs, and saw how you measured from seam allowance to seam allowance (with a soft tape measure), deciding where to alter pattern pieces. Thank you.
I have had the same problem and I totally agree that the information should be so much better. I’ve bought so many patterns and then realised I need the other size range in the pattern which is not only annoying but can get expensive!
I agree! I have extremely narrow shoulders and when I make the big 4 patterns they always turn out huge on me. That is why I don’t even consider buying them anymore. I strictly buy indie patterns now… they are drafted much better and almost always publish the finished garment measurements.
I love that you did this I always avoid big 4 because of this exact problem because everything comes up gigantic thank you so much for this
You make wonderful points and I completely agree with all your suggestions to the pattern companies. My take away from this is that we have to measure the actual pattern pieces and do the math to determine the actual finished measurements. We shouldn't have to do that.
Here's hoping! I find I get a better fit by using my high bust measurement and as my full bust is only 2in more I can usually get away with not doing an Fba. I really would prefer a nape to waist and a waist to hem measurement as a vertically challenged person 😁. Also absolutely with shorten/lengthen lines, I can be put off a pattern if there is no obvious place to shorten 😔.
I agree with you that we need more detail on the envelope. I don’t know why they don’t put the high bust measurement on the envelope as when McCalls patterns first came out the measurement you had to take was the high bust measurement. A lot of sewing /fitting books advise you to use the pattern size closest to your high bust measurement if you have a full bust. As regards the garments on the models, they are probably made up in the smallest size and then pulled in with bulldog clips/grips or pins at the back for the photo shoot which is why they appear to fit well. If you look carefully at ready to wear clothing on mannequins, they are often pinned in the back to create a better fit from the front. Why are the big 4 patterns on sale in America so often whereas here in the UK they go on sale once a year and if you blink you miss the sale?
I think they are dumping them. Honestly. They have been on sale here every month ...very unusual . I am hoping there are new things on the way???
I totally agree with you! I would also love to see pertinent finished garment measurements and suggested wearing ease (ie. model is wearing size X and her measurements are xyz).
When I got back into sewing, I started with a skirt without knowing ANYTHING about finished measurements vs. the packet or other helpful tips. So I made a size 22 because that's what matched my measurements. It was too big to fit me, so I had to hack it apart and take in seams and mess about with it until it fit. I only wore it a couple of times before I had to admit defeat and it saddened me because I loved the fabric I'd bought but it just wasn't wearable. The current guidelines on the back are just so useless they might as well leave them off. As you say: all they do is serve to confuse people and possibly put them off sewing altogether. I want accurate (and useful) finished garment details, and definitely the bodice length because I also always need to lengthen that piece and it would help to know how much I might need to add instead of just estimating it.
This is the reason I stopped making the big 5 patterns. I spent so much time and effort making a garment and was so disappointed when the item didn’t fit. So frustrating. I usually use alternative patterns to make garments, like Tilly and the buttons, Friday pattern co, etc.
Thank you so much for the comparison video! 😊 I Must say if I had not discovered your channel and gone every time with the sizes the pattern company suggested, my makes would not fit as good as they do now. So thank you, Siân, your hard work on this channel and sharing your experiences has made such a difference for my work as well. And this comparison video is a perfect demonstration of that. 💖
fortunately for me, i do very little adjustments if any on the big four, i absolutely love them!
Well done . I found out about the ease on the pattern paper from you , when I first starting following you 💗🇦🇺
Thank you so much for this video. It explains so many of my failures :(. I wish I had known. I eventually worked out that I always had to downsize the shoulders as they were always too big and that necklines didn't look the same on me as they did on the envelope. It was so frustrating. Very discouraging. Yes the pattern companies could do so much better. I love your beautiful dresses. They are so pretty on you!
I have stopped buying big four patterns for all the reasone you have highlighted. I find that the independent pattern designers give far more useful information, and also test their patterns on a range of women of all shapes and sizes so I can see how the garment really looks. A very interesting video. I have subscribed!
RE: Pattern as a guide .. excellent point. You can take a 42 inch busted woman; that pattern can't be sewn the same for a 25 yr old, a 40 year old, or 69+. Hence, a mock-up, or slopper, aldong with your bodies measurements are so important, as compared to the patterns.
I also learned about using the upper bust measurement for bust in the last few years as a trick. I don’t think they mean for you to use this but if you have a cup size larger than B, especially if it’s much larger, the upper bust measurement is a better reflection of our upper frame size. Big 4 is not meant for curvy girls. I find I need a size 10 for my shoulders, size 14 for bust and hips and 16 for waist. The last time I could fit into a size on the pattern envelope was when I was a skinny stick in high school. Although I have to grade somewhat with Indie patterns, the measurements for sizing are so much more accurate.
Thank you. This is a really helpful video. It is also news to me that the bust measurement on the envelope is the high bust measurements! This may explain why I have to much ease across the shoulders! 🤔
I agree that the pattern companies make up a sample, and then find a model who looks best in the finished garment, regardless of what their actual measurements are versus the size that was made up.
because big 4 is pretty consistently too big for almost everybody i wonder if they add extra ease b/c they figure that customers will be more unhappy if their garments end up too small rather than too big? it's the only thing that makes sense to me. i also suspect that the garments don't fit the models that well and that they are clipped/pinned in the back to make them look more fitted. RTW does this all the time...why wouldn't pattern companies do it also?
I've wondered that too. I did originally mention the clipping/pinning of garments but then I found the side on shot of the model wearing the dress so I cut it out but you're right I think they totally "fudge" the photo shoots.
@@KittenishBehaviourSian i'm such a cynic. i assume for the side view they just moved the clips to the side of the body. 😆
🤣 thats what I thought too but I didn't want people "coming" for me in the comments saying you could see it wasn't pinned 🤣🤣🤣
Thank you for tackling this. The difference in your dresses is obvious. I'm 40 and started learning sewing clothing construction at home when I was 8. We have always needed finished garment sizes.
I am busty and short waisted. I have to add significant length to bodice and blouse fronts to get the waist down to waist level. I would love to see neck to waist measurement for front and back added to patterns. I also want upper arm circumference and shoulder width.
For pants patterns, we need thigh and calf measurements.
Thank you! I could not agree more! I quit sewing 15 years ago because of this! I have just started back for my daughter that can not buy ready to wear because of her "extreme ratios". Most patterns give me severe panic attacks every time we pick a new one out. It usually take me 3 to 4 toiles to get it right even with measuring the pattern and adjusting the toiles. No finished measurements and hidden ease on patterns is flat out evil and wasteful!
I completely agree! Most of us know that garments aren't going to fit perfectly straight out of the envelope but giving us more pattern measurements would make the process so much easier. They absolutely should have all the finished garment measurements on their websites.
So true. I hope they listen!
I have often bought both size ranges of a pattern. When I get it home, I carefully remove the tissue from one envelope and measure the pieces. If I’ve guess correctly, I can return the unopened pattern to JoAnn’s (a 15 minute drive from my home). If I guessed incorrectly. I VERY carefully resold the pattern and return it. Not a great system but it works god me right now.
Indy patterns are quickly becoming my preference.
Sian, I am happy to join your team of pattern “dealers”! I can purchase patterns here and send them to you.
Lols! Welcome to the dealers 😂😉. Wouldn’t it be nice to not have to get into the pattern to find the info you need 😍
I think the second one you made looks beautiful. The first one is… frumpy. As to what else I’d like on the envelope… what kind of fabric did they use to make up the sample. That would really help new sewers who are going into it with little knowledge of fabric types. And honestly, sometimes they put so many different types of fabric that it can get confusing.
Excellent video, agree we need more info and clarity. Do they not realise they are turning off beginners to sewing , who should be important for their pattern sales. The smaller dress fits you do much better.
I really think things need to change. I have totally given up with the big 4 pattern companies, having had so many garments ending up drowning me, as your sizing indicator dress did. Now I only purchase Indie patterns, as they come with so much more information included, despite liking many of the big 4 designs. Maybe the big 4 will be willing to change when they realise that the way things are at present is costing them sales. I would also like the finished width across the shoulders to be given, as that often gives me problems.
Oh god yes the bicep measurement!! I have really chunky upper arms... I have been changing all the sleeves to bishop sleeves purely so they fit....
Me too!
@@KittenishBehaviourSian Drives me mad. Im 5'1 big bust and booty, menopause belly but short length waist but I have a waist... Its a nightmare. I love making clothes but purely due to the lack of information on patterns I dont make things. I have to adjust so much it puts me off.. Why cant they put all the information we need on them??
I always take time to measure the actual paper pattern before I start so I know which size to cut out. Easy.
Easy yes, but if you’re like me and between the size bundles it would be nice to have the information before I make a purchase so I can make an informed purchase.
Yes I see where you are coming from. I’m old by way of being 70 and have been sewing since I was 15, so the sewing thing well……….😀
Thankyou, I feel like I’m not so hopeless now. As nothing I’ve been making lately fits at all. Basically it’s a matter of guess work
100%! Yes! On the envelope please 🙏🏼
Very helpful fitting analysis
Hi Siân! New subscriber here and so happy I came across your channel. This video certainly resonated with me; pattern sizing can be so difficult. Thanks for all the information and I'm looking forward to watching more videos! Cheers! ~Angela
Hear! Hear!! Thank you for this and I'm very glad to know that Mimi G is also on top of this issue.
I think they've been around so long and doing this under outdated assumptions for so long that a good shaking up is in order. You've done a fine, thorough job here on a much needed service.
I never got into using patterns, probably partly because of this issue, but I feel so bad for people new to sewing who aren't aware of it and might end up feeling like the problem lies with them, even feeling like they just *can't* sew and should give up. Yes, one can learn how to adapt patterns and go in with a sceptical attitude, but they shouldn't *have* to. It would be so easy to just label the sizes correctly for a basic fit that matches the one in the pictures. There'd be nothing to stop anyone sizing up from there if they wanted a looser fit. The whole thing is ridiculous.
So yeah, great video; thank you!
- ✨🐐
I find the finished neck to hem to be such a useless measurement, it means nothing. I usually have to shorten most commercial patterns by around 2 inches at the waist before I even do anything else. But yeah the wearing ease of the big 4 is a tad over the top. on the dress you made, your measurements looks so much better. I have started pattern drafting and using that altering my patterns to suit style lines from the envelopes and that is working much better from me. Videos by the Closet Historian has helped significantly in building my confidence with pattern drafting. Still sorting out small fit issues but get much better results now than when I first started.
First off, I hope you are sending your video to Something Delightful, owners of McCall. I have never heard that the bust on the pattern is high bust. Lots of people like Palmer Pletsch recommend choosing the pattern based on one’s high bust because it will fit better in the shoulders and neck. I always measure the pattern to determine how much ease has been added and then choose accordingly which i absolutely agree should be on the outside of the envelope. Foe the greening and shortening the top, dont you measure from shoulder to bust and compare to pattern to know if you need to lengthen above the bust or below. I do love the big 4 but after all these years of sewing I’ve just know what size I will buy. I hope the big 4 are listening. Thank you so much for the rant, loved it.
I agree with what u are saying one hundred....my very first mccalls pattern i ever made I went by thw body measurements ....hear this ...it was for knits...so u know knits has negative ease...made the dress a size smaller than my size and after making the dress I could almost fit two of me in it...followed SA and was a disaster.....and i almost never made their patterns again....but our love for sewing means we are persistent and dedicated to them...and that was before i knew about finished garment measurements....so i agree with our rant one hundred
It's so annoying when they just put the length and hem circumference. It's insulting. I imagine them thinking "well we put something there. That's good enough." In addition to all of the measurements you mentioned AND being consistent with ease AND telling us exactly how much wear and design ease is in the pattern AND dressing the models based on what the envelope says WITHOUT CLIPS, I would also like the shoulder measurement. That's pie in the sky thinking, I know, but every other measurement I can adjust as long as the shoulder fits. BTW, yes choosing a size off of your upper bust measurement is what is recommended.
Youve put so much work into this Sian to illustrate a point perfectly, I’ve heard so much about the ‘bust’ measurement really meaning your upper bust and either doing an sba or fba as needed so that the garment fits your shoulders, this makes total sense but why then do most sewing books and measurement guides tell you to measure your full bust?? I just don’t get it.
It's very simple. The big 4 draft for a B cup, so if you have a B cup, you can safely choose your pattern by the full bust measurement. However if your cup size is larger than a B, you should purchase the pattern by your upper bust measurement and adjust the pattern for your filled bust. All dressmaking requires measuring and fitting. That's lesson 101 in the sewing world.
fuller
@@emptyspools where is that lesson taught/written/linked to/explained though?? That’s the problem. It’s not “common” knowledge, just reading through the comments on this video show that it’s not common knowledge. The pattern envelope should have more information on it or at the very least the website.
Unfortunately, the pattern companies do not see themselves as sewing and fitting instructors. We as sewers need to understand that sewing patterns companies are not a one stop shop. Like all endeavors, you have to do the reseaech. I was fortunate that two of my sewing mentors worked at McCalls.
@@emptyspools I’m an experienced sewer and know all
About measuring and fitting, my point is that if the big 4 want to compete they need to up their game considerably, there are a lot of new people to sewing and they might pick up a mccalls pattern and expect to be able to choose their size from the information on the envelope before purchasing, nowhere on there does it say which bust measurement you should use ie upper full or under, depending on your cup size, we should be making it easy for beginners not more difficult by setting them up to fail, they could easily link to their website for more information before deciding what pattern size to choose but they decline to do that, there is no wonder the indies are much more popular in the sewing community as they listen to sewers needs and respond to that
Agree so much with you after having problems with my upper body - always too much fabric even after using my upper bust and not the full bust, so annoying not to have the finished garment measurements on the envelope and having to wait until you open the tissue pattern and finding that there is heaps of ease. If the independent patterns can include the finished garment measurements why are the big 4 unable to do it? It is so annoying and time wasting. By the way your second dress looks amazing on you.
Agree with everything being said here. Hope the big 4 see this and maybe are able to incorporate some changes.
I agree with you. It's frustrating to spend that much on a pattern and all the fabric and notions and waste your time sewing something that never looks or fits like the picture or the sizes given. It's my biggest disappointment and I have many friends who don't sew anymore because of it. So much work for nothing!
It would be so helpful to have finished garment measurements included on the pattern envelope. I learned to sew 50ish years ago, used my mom's size 8 patterns with good results. Today, without you and other lovely sewing vloggers, I would be sewing stylish potato sacks🤣Thank you, Siân, for expressing the sentiments of the sewing community.
This reminds me of my first and only sewing project. Making myself pajama pants from McCall’s. I assumed the measurements given on the envelope would tell me what size to choose. Complete beginner to sewing. And assuming pajama pants were a harmless first project because how wrong could they end up being? They came out far too big for me, even though the envelope said it should have. Luckily they were suitable, albeit still too big, for my mother and she wears them to this day. But it definitely has given me hesitation and intimidation to sew another thing. To have it not fit me whatsoever and scramble to find a suitable recipient of the garment. Above all the disappointment that I did not get to enjoy the garment I worked hard on.
I have very narrow shoulders and a wide back. I have to sew a size 10 for above the bust and the shoulders. And an 18 for my back and a 16 for my full bust. I also have to sew an 18 for my large biceps.
One of my biggest frustrations is that I’m still a relatively new seamstress. And I’m itty bitty (like 24” waist) the pattern envelops tell me I should be cutting out a 6-10 (depends on the style of dress. And some envelopes don’t even go that small) but because they add wearing ease. I ALWAYS have to take them in even though i make them smallest size on the envelope. It’s also frustrating because I’m a new seamstress and not skilled at sizing up/ down. And scaling is even harder when you have no guidelines to follow (like “grade to size 10”)
If i had the time, drafting my own would take just as long and probably fit better. Afterall I have to do so many alterations anyways
Also I’m just realizing there’s some patterns i just can never make because the amount of wearing ease means that the smallest size would be over 5-6” larger than my measurements. And it’s really hard to scale down that much.
I sad irony that you cant sew a pattern because it’ll always come out too big (vs too small)
I have the exact same issue, same waist. I had to really hunt for patterns my size. But I did come across a pj pattern, I was the second smallest size, the smallest was 23” waist. The finished measurements on the pattern, showed I would have 3 inches of wearing ease. I made the muslin, and there was no ease at all. So I had to manually add ease, when I actually made the pjs. I would expect pjs to also have more than 3” ease also.
I have a terrible time trying to fit for my daughter who’s size 4-6 in RTW and only 4’11 tall, so far she’s only had hoodies because she likes them oversized anyway! We’re currently making her a ‘frankencoat’ which is a mash-up of 2 patterns and has quite a lot of style details, by some magical occurrence I got the bodice to fit pretty quickly but think it’s because I’ve studied a lot of fitting books I thankfully invested in and read hungrily from cover to cover!
I have been struggling with macalls 7974 for weeks , formygrandaughter , she has a models figure , and I'm desperately trying to make it even wearable,. I came across your video using this pattern , it made me feel somewhat sane its impossible to make it fit but I'm trying to make it salvage able , thanks for your videos , I am taking it in everywhere I can so disappointing,
Rewatching. As far as I know the Big 4 bust measurement is the full bust measurement. If you want the upper bust measurement you have to subtract 2” from the given bust measurement. That is assuming pattern is designed for a B cup, which most of thier pattterns are unless otherwise stated. 😽💕
AMEN!. Great video. You are absolutely right. In regards of the bust on the envelope, it is the bust size not the upper bust, you can contact Mccalls to clarify. What many fitting experts like Nancy Zimmerman said is to use YOUR upper bust and chose the pattern bust measurement base on that, this will give better fitting in shoulders and neck and made a Full/ small Bust adjustment. Lest hope Mimi G can made this possible
No, not upper bust with Nancy. Nancy Zieman is using a front armpit to armpit measurement to guide to a shoulder fit. She then alters the rest of the garment as needed. Interesting idea.
@@robyn3349 You are right, my bad, too many books on fitting. This concept is explain by Palmer / Pletsch in the Complete Guide To Fitting: Chapter 4 "Buy The Right Size". I know many others advise this is well
More thoughts on this: it seems like the big 4 are terrified of people's garments coming out too small, so they err on the large side. Maybe more margins creep in during the process, if at each stage they err on the large side? I find that the indie designers are more transparent about ease (the information is available online somewhere even if it's not on the outside of the envelope). In my old Vogue Knitting magazines, they give you an indication of fit: "close-fitting", "oversized" etc for each pattern (and that refers to a fairly specific amount of ease). Given that knitted yarn is more "recoverable" than cut and sewn fabric (and that you can't return tissue patterns once you've opened them- I'm frequently on the dividing line between size bundles and the idea of making an expensive mistake makes me nervous), it baffles me that more measurements aren't on the outside of the envelope!
Thanks for going to the trouble to show this. I appreciate it is a lot of work, but once a bugbear has taken hold, there's nothing for it but to go to the trouble to evict it! I have been so disappointed and frustrated when I follow the pattern to the letter and end up with a frumpy garment that does not look at all like what I expect from the pattern pictures. It is just so soul sucking! BTW, if I had tried on the "envelope recommended size" dress in the store, I would not have bought it, as I would have felt very unattractive. As a matter of fact, I would have tried to size down, and would rather have lived with not being able to raise my arms or tacking the button placket so it doesn't gape rather than going up a size for a frumpy dress. Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but once there is fact, as illustrated very nicely here, your opinion is no longer valid.
And as for the totally pointless "finished garment measurements" they do provide, well, it's not like I need to know if I would fit through my door based on the width of my panniers or hoop? ( I mean, logically, isn't that the only reason to provide a hem circumference??!?!?!). I need to know if my bust and waist and hip will fit into the dress! PLEASE somebody, ANYBODY, explain to me what those measurements are for. Is it some industry secret? Some useful but unknown formula you can plug that in to to come up with what size to make? Because I DON'T KNOW! I just can't imaging why that would be included on the packet for no reason, right?
I have the exact same issue and it's driving me crazy. The dress is too big (2 sizes at least), shoulders had to be reduced by a couple of cm...I tried to save it by adding bust darts, but it still looks too big 😣. And this is for a woven fabric. In knits I'll probably size down by 3-4 sizes
I am a new sewer and the struggle is real. Thanks for this
Ehh, saying they’re lying is a bit strong. But they’re definitely still running the apparel sizing and such as if not much has changed from the 70s. Except everything is multi-size now. None of my vintage patterns have finished garment measurements except length and occasionally hem width. I honestly think some of the indies have more people working on each aspect of a pattern than the “Big 4” often do.
The bigger issue is that they assume a knowledge-base and don’t provide much to start with themselves. Old Vogue Sewing books & the Singer ones are what I often recommend when people are set on sewing apparel, especially with our easy access to Big 4 here in the US.
Well said.
FYI- over 5 years ago, an American sewist (Shams) posted a similar viewpoint on her blog. She got invited to talk to the president of Vogue Patterns in person at a sewing expo and filled him in on all the problems sewists have with the big 4. We were hopeful that things would change. And then the big 4 got bought by a paper/crafting company and they don't seem to know much about patterns or sewing. It's very frustrating. However, there may be another chance. Mimi G, a US pattern designer and vlogger was recently named a director at the Big 4. She also has a fabric store and her husband is also a pattern designer. She has the ear of those running the big 4. See if you can direct your comments to her . She's on RUclips. She may listen and help. But yes, totally agree on poor fit. Badly worded instructions are another issue. Keep pushing. You are right!
I started commenting before I finished watching. You are moving in the right direction.
PS currently hand stitching about the last metre of hem on a very full skirt (maxi length, ~ 5m skirt circumference, although with 1/4 fullness in the front, 3/4 in the back, like a walking skirt). And yes, I buy my bias binding in 25 metre rolls! Using 4cm scarlet binding for this (because why not); fun flash of colour, helps protect the hem of the skirt, and adds to the whoosh factor :)