I remembered renting this and thinking it would be great like Dishonored. I can’t believe it’s been 7 years! Tell me this came out in October because I remember listening to Opie and Anthony ft. Jim Norton’s “Jocktober”
A openworld Thief game actually sound really good. All they need to do is copy Hitman and replace assasinations with thieving and it will be a easy GOTY if they manage to put a good story in it.
Well it was really a combination of Splinter Cell: Conviction, Hitman Absolution, and Thief 4. There’s a reason that the only one of these series still left standing is the one that ultimately returned to its roots
Kidboy you don't know what "it really was" cause you don't work in the industry nor do you know someone in it. You're just simply what's called a "basement dwelling typer" which means you just say anything 🤡
There was a weird phase in late 2000s and early 2010s when every major steallth game franchise going through a existential crisis. They were rebooting every stealth franchise, and it was always with a new creative team who didn't even understood what made the original great in the first place.. I think Metal Gear Survive officially put the last nail in the coffin on steath genre
Stealth games just like horror games have been on a decline for a while there's no denying that, there are outliers like Hitman and Resident Evil but generally stealth same as horror doesn't sell very well in the AAA arena.
The different pieces of your equipment that you use to traverse the world weren't a problem in and of themselves, actually -- I quite appreciated that you often needed to have specialized equipment to get unique items that you could subsequently view (even rotating the model around) at your leisure. It's one of the few gameplay mechanics I wish had been fleshed out more in Deadly Shadows. The problem is that you end up carrying so much specialized equipment on you (razor is fine, wrench/wirecutter/permanent trinkets, not so much) that it screws with one of the key tenets of the first two games -- that Garrett was such an expert that he discarded most of his extraneous equipment between missions, not just because he enjoys the challenge (he specifically wears shoes with taps on them because not doing so would make sneaking far too easy!), but because the extra gear typically bogs him down and you never really have a need beyond some extra arrows or fence tips per mission. It doesn't help that most of the places you need to access with this specialized equipment are ''extremely'' superficial -- either an item that's right behind a grate that you need to unscrew, or a path that is still just a slightly-alternate circuit through an otherwise-linear stage that only has one path anyway.
@@Ghost_Of_SAS fun fact, that’s why the Mona Lisa is so small nowadays! It’s been cut and stolen so many times it’s now theorised to be half its original size! (Which is a LOT when it comes to canvas)
I actually really enjoyed this game, it might just be because I never played the originals and I just was looking for a sneak based game but I thoroughly enjoyed it
Thief thematically is about the BALANCE of order and chaos. Too much chaos? You get the Trickster - the apotheosis of the Pagans Too much order, you get Karras - the apotheosis of the Hammerites or their Mechanist cult The Keepers are trying to keep a balance between these two forces. This is what future Thief devs and projects need to understand x
Yep spot on. It's all about the balance. Even the Keepers themselves lost balance by trying to believe they're above it and they can decide what it is. That's how you got the Hag. The thing is, the Thief Franchise doesn't NEED rebooting. Thief Deadly Shadows ended with Garett taking in an orphan girl to train her. Why not make her story? 10-20 years after Karras, Trickster and the Hag? No more Glyphs, with both Technology AND Magic probably under lockdown, could definitely set a nice sort of renaissance \ Victorian era with a lot of hidden factions vying for the power vacuum left behind the big guys. Missions exploring old pagan or mechanist hideouts, stuff that the protagonist has only ever heard about second hand from her mentor. But even if you DO reboot, don't use Garett as the protagonist, use him as the mentor. He should be what Artimus was for Garett. You can't have Garett without Stephen Russel, so just move on from him. Be the Bioshock to Thief's System Shock. Dishonored 2 knew to use Stephen Russel as the voice of Corvo, because Dishonored was inspired by Thief. Like I said, there's plenty of directions you can take this to, even incorporating some elements of the new Thief's story. But this new Thief had everything wrong. Bad story, bad characters, bad design, bad ai, I remember being so disgusted after playing it.
It's insane how you can simply make observations, end it with "x" after backhandedly telling the developers how to do their job (which you have no experience in) and people will bomb you with internet points you represent everything I despise about armchair game critics
@@LudvigJosvason Yeah he told devs who made a mediocre entry in a good franchise, so mediocre it killed the franchise, what to do storywise and thematic wise with the franchise based on its previous successful entry. Your take is pretty terrible. Reflecting and advising is valid criticism. You however, are obviously either a failing game dev, or someone who has a personal attachment to a game so that if someone criticizes it you think they're criticizing you. Grow up.
It's kinda interesting that they dug up the title "Thief Taker General". Back in the 1700s I believe, in London, before the city had an organized police force, Thief Taker General was an official position assigned by the parliament to someone who was good at recovering stolen property for a fee. What ended up happening was that the Thief Taker General was actually working with the gangs (and sometimes even running them). Basically, he was both the problem and the solution, which let him make a huge amount of money out of both the gangs and the victims.
While you're most certainly right on much of it, I do believe the thief-taker general was a much less official position, and was a self-styled title for a vigilante by the name of Jonathan Wild. Don't let this discount the other things you've said, though! I'm just a silly pedant. ❤
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who actually likes this game, and I started with the original Thief; not Thief Gold, the original Thief the Dark Project. I played all of them and I still like this one. I admit it's the worst of the bunch, but it's still fun. Navigating The City is a bitch, but the missions aren't terrible. Maybe I just love Thief (as a brand/concept) too much.
I would disagree heartily. The missions are quite bad. Literally the only mission that felt like a thief mission was a DLC. Obviously the developers realized they done f*cked up, so they gave the fans what they wanted in the form of a 20 minute after thought. If the whole game had been like the bank heist, this game would have been an incredible addition to the series. But instead of being about stealing, it's about drama, magic, plague, civil unrest. When I found myself stumbling through an abandoned asylum trying to avoid goblin creatures, I realized the creators had no idea what game they were supposed to be creating.
No, you're not. The only difference is that you don't make "being a gamer TM" your personality and therefore, you can afford to say stuff like "Thief 4 was pretty good" or "Walking Dead Survival Instinct was flawed as f but there is enjoyment to be had" etc. People have cornered themselves into their own perceived notion that being a gamer TM came with a checklist or some sh!t like that. 9 years ago, it was cool to say that Fallout 3 was sh!t and FF6 was a better FF than FF7... Because they all know that, statistically, FF7 is most people's first RPG so, claiming to like the previous one(s) makes you a more OG gamer TM... You have a super-power in today's day and age: you can like things you like without giving 2 fµcks about what other people will think about you. You are a free person. They're not, they're trapped, trying their hardest to convince the rest of the world that they are REAL gamerz TM, which REQUIRES you to sh!t on Fallout 3, only praise the first 2, sh!t on Thief 4, only praise the previous ones etc. Any deviation from that and they'd feel like Candy Crush players... Which should be okay to be... but... There's a good reason why Dark Souls games took off... Are you really a gamer if you haven't beaten them? But wait!!! In which difficulty? Well, there's no easy difficulty, is there?... But what if there was? Ever thought about that? Then it would mean that "I beat Dark Soul" could mean "I beat it in easy difficulty"... which would make you NOT a real gamer! And we can't have that... can we? Oh no, we can't. Even though adding an OPTIONAL mode wouldn't take anything away from the game, it could damage Dark Souls players' very fragile ego... See what I mean? It's all about ego, gamer credentials etc. That's the reason they played the game in the first place and the reason they're fighting so hard against the inclusion of an (optional) easy mode You don't care about that. So you can say stuff like "guys, I actually liked it!", you should be proud of yourself. I mean that. You are a complete person, on your own, you don't need other people's approval to exist. You are more than your video game "achievement" list. They're not. You can enjoy this good game (not great but "good" is already quite good!), they can't. That's really sad when you think about it, how many other stuff they are missing out on?! And for what? Impressing DarkLordxxx666 on the internet? To what end? He beat dark souls too and he thinks he's a better gamer than you anyway... Thief 4, worse game ever... Can you imagine believing something like that?! I mean, the PS2 alone has 2500 games... Thief 4 is worse than all of them and then some?! How pathetic it is to live like that... I feel sorry for them, happy for people like you.
I remember reading somewhere that the devs for Thief 4 had not played the originals and that they made a stream playing the first one and they were commenting the differences like "Wow this Garret is so different from what we've made". Unbelievable.
Well, garret isnt in thief 4, its a brand new character. And considering "Randy Smith, a designer on the original trilogy, suggested to the studio of creating a new character instead of using Garrett" I find it increasingly hard to believe the devs never played the original games.
“a thief with a heart of gold” ehh, I dont know if that exactly describes garett. he more “wont do something overly malicious if he doesn’t have to, but will still get his hands dirty if he does” kind of guy. then add in a splash of amicability and cynicism, and you got Garett!
@@midshipman8654 Exactly! Garret is like "For f%$k's sake, how did I get myself into this stuff again? Eh, might as well save the world or whatever. If those freaks destroy it where am I gonna steal stuff?"
The girl in Thi4f is probably a nameless girl Garrett catches in the ending of Thief: Deadly Shadows (№3). It wraps up the story of Garrett himself: in the beginning of Dark Project he is recruted to Keepers the same way, through failed attempt to steal keeper's property. Personally back then I would like to see a game where we could play as apprentice of Garrett. Alas, got a different outcome. Thi4f is the game no one actually been asked for. The story of previous trilogy is concluded: all major power structures in the City were contained and balance restored, there is nothing else to do.
this is canonically not the same garret. She is Garret's apprentice, who he decided to teach when she tried to steal from him. He caught her red handed trying to pickpocket him She was raised in the house of blossoms and when it came the time for her to have her first time, she kills the customer. She escapes when a guard caught her red handed as he was patrolling. She tries to survives on the streets, sees Garret, tries to steal from him, Garret catches her hand, then she escapes and she chases him and he loses her. She came to Basso because he's the only one she knew in the city (according to Basso) and he shelters her. Basso calls Garret because she wants her to meet him, he just thought they would get along, and when he shows up she realizes he's the guy she tried to steal from. Time skip, Garret is her mentor now, a guard is about to attack Garret and she kills him instead of knocking him out, and Garret refuses to work with her anymore. This is taking in mind she has killed people before against Garret's orders (she doesn't always kill them). She becomes an assassin after that. That's all in the comic, but the game does show a scene where she kills a guy in the house of blossoms and escapes. I also think it was pretty clear they were partners in crime, idk why mrixt had doubts, everything else is just not clear in the game (that scene with Eryn at the house of blossoms is so random and vague you don't piece it together, I was just confused) I find it weird that the comic also differs from the canon that the game presented.
I feel the biggest flaw of Thief 4 was the complete removal of the lore that made the old games feel so fascinating. The Keepers, Hammerites, Mechanists and Pagans. This is quality content, you''ve got yourself another subscriber!
Yeah they could have introduced the less annoying girl from 3rd thief game ending with Garrett as mentor, and they really should have improved the positional audio so you can actually hear where footsteps come from. Oh well, we have Dishonored for a spiritual successor instead.
this game is such a strange case. it feels like a first draft of a game that got polished enough to get a semi-functional release. it feels like the sorta version of a game somebody would make to experiment with ideas before they scrap most of it and use the good ideas in a different draft.
I think a better title would be "biggest disappointment of all time". The game may be fine and dandy when viewed in a vacuum, but it has very little of what makes a Thief game special, other than a basic premise.
@@PikkaBird I'm currently playing through and that's pretty much were I sit. As someone who only played the originals a little I didnt really have the same attachment as the community and coming at it from that perspective I quite like the game. Far from prefect, but servicable and has some good levels. But I cant totally understand the fan reaction as it's a huge departure of what made those originals so iconic.
@@trtvitor1385Of course, if you look at it in the grand scheme of things there have been some spectacular fumbles. But from the point of view of a Thief fan this game was an atrocious dud.
Thanks for featuring my map! It's the one with ink all over the place and I made it because I really hated the whole UI, including the map in Thief 4 for it's modern and sterile style. This one looks like it's straight from Garrett's pocket. Actually I quite like the game for it's atmosphere, and as a standalone I'd love it I think, including all the animations... I actually like that... As an entry to the Thief franchise though.. Uh... [insert rant] I'm old and played Thief 1 on release and I am still replaying all the games once in a while because they are really that great. What redeems Thief 4 a bit, is the fact that we are able to switch off nearly all HUD elements so you got none of that modern crap on your screen and can go full immersion. The elements that are left are tweakable by a few mods (like the always slightly visible equipped weapons and tools). Concerning Eren: She's Garrett's wayward apprentice, which is why he cares and feels responsible to her (which doesn't excuse this horrible emo story they pushed on this game). When they were still developing the game as a real prequel to the franchise, she was supposed to be the girl Garrett catches stealing in the end of Thief 3. Basso is actually a character from Thief 2, and the guy whose girlfriend Garrett frees in the very first mission of the game. When they rebooted, all these references got lost of course. :(
Same thing! And even after I played Dishonored and Deus Ex series, Thief 4 remains to be a good game for me, thx to the amazing esthetics, atmosphere, and a cool fluent gameplay 😉
I'm glad you mentioned about the action buttons and loading times, that was such a big deal on consoles. I remember playing this game on Xbox back in the days, it was annoying going through this action and then having a loading time after that.
I used some mods when playing through Thief 4, it removed that weird focus perk and did a lot of other things to make the game seem more like the older thieves (mostly like thief 3). But the mod actually made it a lot of fun,I do really hate the button mashing and the walking through the tight passageway. However, I loved the city when playing thief 3 back when it released and I do think it makes it a little bit more alive by going to the different missions. Nice video, I enjoyed it!
I am playing thief after playing Dishonored 2 and I feel like something is missing because I can't jump where ever I wan't, fighting is almost non existing and arrow aim is so lame. I know it's a stealth game and you should avoid fighting but that I can not use bow and arrow normaly is annoying.
As a outsider to the games, I personally enjoyed the game. Not many games get that stealth feeling right. Now the game is $19.99 and comes with the bank heist DLC. That was a great decision to add the DLC on. I enjoy it for what it is. It will keep me entertained for a while.
"The third one is with Orion, so you go to Orion and... _vision steal(?)..._ the last piece from him. While being attacked(?)... maybe, suddenly, by... a ghost(?)... of Erin(!?)... the girl you care about for some reason? This leads Orion to suddenly see you there, because.... you were invisible maybe(?)" "AND THE THIEF TAKER GENERAL IS THERE NOW!" I've never seen a more hilarious story recap in a video before, lol. Trying hard to lay out the whole thing, spoilers or no, but it's so bizarrely/poorly told that _you actually can't really do it._ All the events just too loosely stitched together in a way that leaves too many question marks to really form all the connective tissue necessary. Best way to point out a flaw is just to bust out an example and show it plays out :P God damn, this whole video is brilliant - your work is super entertaining; so glad I discovered this channel.
I do have to point out that it's established from the beginning that they see each other as family (rivals but still with a familial bond) That's why he cares about Erin.
I feel like thief 3 is the worst of the trilogy, but also kind of the easiest to get into. That’s why it’s my most played thief as well. Like thief 1 and 2 are better, but boy some of those quest are hard and I actually really like the third person view of thief 3.
So when I got the game I had no clue it was part of a series so i judged it as a stand alone game. It ended up being one of my favorite games to play, despite all it’s flaws. I’m quite surprised you didn’t mention the complete lack of brightness adjustability (at least on console). It’s such a dark game and it’s lack of brightness settings really makes it hard to play in anywhere but a dark room. I pretty much agree with everything you said about it, except I feel like the story is more fleshed out than you’ve given it credit for (not by much to be fair). Actually before today I didn’t know the game was so hated. Completely valid and understandable, just took me by surprise.
I loved this game. Sound, graphics, atmosphere were all great. Yeah, it's weird being a master thief stealing random crap from people's houses, but I never played the original games and thoroughly enjoyed the stealth. It's like a medieval Splinter Cell with supernatural stuff mixed in.
Those last words say it all. It's such sad that this is the end for such a lovely series of games, I can't even find the thi4f teaser pictures or arts anymore, they promised so much and somewhere along the road, they just let a bunch of manager's papa's boys to handle the project.
Yeah... I forgot that they promised so much. I was interested because of the teaser content, but I never got the game until years later at a heavily discounted price... Even that didn't really feel worth it.
Great video that put the short comings of this game into words I couldn't quite express myself. I was waiting for the moment when you mentioned the ton of mini-animations you do throughout the game. It's probably what I was most annoyed about with the game. I'm a big fan of the 3 first games as well and pre-ordered this one but only played through it once, where I would play the old games so much that I would even ghost them and feel inspired by the atmosphere of the world to the point of ALMOST making fan fiction.
The way you’ve broken this down is exceptional, sir. Thank you for putting into words what anyone who played this game felt was SO far off from previous titles.
I love the dodge you can do (though it should have bigger a cool down) which helps out with dealing with sneaking between large gaps or getting out of potentially dangerous situation which can get you caught
The biggest thing that bugged me was what Thi4f did with the blackjack. In the original games, it was so satisfying bonking guards over the head with the blackjack, and that was only a simple melee attack. You don't get the same levels of satisfaction when you try to make it "cinematic" by reducing it to an animation while playing an unnecessary sound effect every time you do it.
@@TheCrimsonElite666 in the OG series, it was also a coin toss between enemies being deaf af and suddenly all of them having sight and hearing ability of Superman
A bit late here but this was a game that I never got much past the introduction because it was really boring and slow, having dropped it like two times. Dishonored on the other hand, I finished both of them on the hardest difficulty. What a masterpiece.
That Thief 4 game had exceptional graphics for it's time to be honest, to give it credit where credit is due (unfortunately that's hard to see because of visual aesthetic they chose)
I think thats why its a bit linear with these qte to mask loading times. I think if it had been designed only for PC it would look and play differently.
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc I'm sorry. But no. The graphics were really muddy and they looked worse then Dishonored and Bioshock (the most recent Bioshock game had, in fact been built in the same engine). That is some EXTREME rose tinted specs you got there.
@@Stettafire yes visual aesthetics not pleasing, both dishonored and to a lesser extent Bioshock Infinite were shone for being graphically outdated (but aesthetically good)
Anyone else spend most your time trying to remember where tf you are supposed to be going when you were not staring at a loading screen? Blessings from Ireland, great channel 🇮🇪
I like thief 4, but I am glad I can now understand why people hate it thanks to this video. A big difference from the past garret and the new one, is that like you said he steals because he needs to, but the reboot one just has an addiction to stealing (the patient that the asylum talks about might not be Garret, but the ending confirms he has an addiction) edit: Throughout the video, I kept thinking "yes, he fell off" because this Garret has an addiction problem. This is canon, it's not an unintentional portrayal as a result of poor writing edit2: Also, my headcannon is that Garret is not a reliable narrator, and that everything we see can be put in doubt, even the existence of the thief taker general or at least his boss battle. The comic is the true canon, which is unfinished
Yeah, that is probably the best description. It's alright. And forgettable. But only for the fact that it's neither the best game ever made, nor absolute shite, nor a trainwreck, nor laden with controversy. It exists and has no major flaw, but also doesn't set itself apart.
I never understood the hate it got. I'm an old Thief fan and I bought this on release and really liked it. After I finished it I was surprised when I found how much hate it got. I recommend really giving it a try. It is a good game.
As a stealth game, I'd be real interested in how Kojima would tackle a reboot or sequel, but only as far as gameplay goes that is. I'm sure if he had his hands on it it'd probably miss the mark entirely in the narrative department and have it all turned into a exposition-heavy narrative on the military with 80 hours of cutscenes and inserted characters named after movies or something lol 😅
I don't know why I just watched a 1 hour video of gus fring talking about a game I've never heard of from a series I've had no experiences with, but I enjoyed the experience 👍
I have fond memories of playing all the Thief games, even 4. You make a lot of valid points, especially about opening windows, not marking them, etc. I can see the influence of classic Thief on Metro Exodus. Thanks for the memories--I was going to give it another try, but now I remember why I got frustrated with it.
I played Thief deadly shadows and this one, I actually like this one while it may not have the charm of the older ones, but i think they did portray being a thief really well, its nerve wracking hearing voices and footsteps nearby when lockpicking or taking items or finding where the prize is.
What a fantastic breakdown that eloquently put into words exactly what I was feeling after sinking 3.3 hours into this game. I got it on steam for 2.5 british pounds and still feel ripped off.
I'm fighting for this beautiful game to be remembered fondly. It's different from the originals, that doesn't make it bad. One of my fav games of all time. I payed $60 for my copy and it was worth every penny to me. It's a game I can play to soothe my OCD anxiety and the visuals/sounds are beyond relaxing.
@@mihaimercenarul7467 I'm sorry that you've confused your shitty opinion with fact 😢 It must suck to lack so much awareness. Oh well. Now get out of my replies 🥰
It would've been nice if there was like a tax collector or some rent or debt to pay so that Garrett was always starved for cash, giving the player more incentive to steal
Whenever I find myself replaying F.E.A.R., and find Offices deep down in a Level, I can't help but to think, how in Reality, the Employee would take half an Hour just to get to their Desk
I always felt like I didn’t get enough money for all the upgrades and tools available, granted I didn’t really replay missions, but for stuff like that upgrade worth 9,800 gold that increases health and focus, I would never get near that number cause I usually restocked arrows, bought tools I needed like the razor, and buy focus points
I don't think the rope arrow locations were due to narrative control. I think it's more likely: 1- the same reason why many modern games have yellow paint marking climbable ledges: the high graphical fidelity demands overly complex and overly cluttered map design, and then it becomes terribly hard to tell the important things apart from the clutter, unless they're glaringly marked. This is why I hate realistic graphics... 2- the fact that most of the city is made of wood. In T1 and T2, rope arrows could be shot at anything made of wood, because it only makes sense, and that must be accounted for in map design. But then the city missions were mostly made of stone and plaster, so the rope arrows were more useful inside a mansion's yard, for example, not as much in the city (except maybe for secrets). When the city is completely made of wood, then there's no way to limit rope arrows. Either way, it's really unfortunate. Using a rope arrow in T2014 will never make you feel clever, or like you achieved something on your own.
It's very easy to make up something to bypass the limitation of rope arrow, Batman has been using a grippling gun for ages already, something like a "claw arrow" that could that grip on stones/ brick will do, but vastly more expensive, it also controls player freedom in hub, so there could be certain area the player could not explore until you have some of those arrow.
Thief isn’t in any realm the worst game of all time. I had fun of it and think it’s a pretty solid stealth game. The story is abhorrent, though. This is coming from someone who practically worships every facet of the original trilogy.
It’s was the shalebridge cradle for me, my sister and I would seriously run away from the Xbox if one of those light bulb looking dudes caught us and run away again if he was still on screen trying to kill us lol
My favourite level was the Horn of quintus. The fact that you can hear it from far before seeing it was a genius idea. The whole level was so perfect. Mean while thief4 .. oh spoons. Gotta steal some of those. Ohh yeah... spooooooooonzzzzz
I played this back in the day because I thought it looked similar to dishonered. I remember it being pretty average. Not bad, just average. It's actually one of the few games I've actually beat.
This "Garrett" is the imposter mentioned in Deadly Shadows when Garrett looked through the window and saw "Garrett" and some dude trying to hire him for the job...
This feels like a game designed by the Lego franchise: mash buttons, move forward, and you’ll reach the end. Bummer. The creativity of the first game is what made it my favorite.
Which Thief game is your favorite? It's been a while, but 2 in my mind feels like the one I enjoyed the most playing through. I might do a playthrough from 1 to 4 just to see.
I assume you played this on a modern pc, but this game was also plagued with severe technical problems on consoles at launch. On the PS4 version, there was a game breaking bug where attempting to get to one story area would put you in an infinite, inescapable loading screen. This bug wasn't fixed for months and it could never be fixed if your ps4 wasn't connected to the internet. It made a lot of people I know (including myself) stop playing it and never complete the game. I also remember bad framerate being an issue, especially during combat. That mightve played a role in its bad playerbase.
Thief 4 has one really good level. The ghost level. It's genuinely interesting and has a really good level design. The rest of the game is meh, nothing compared to the originals.
This game makes me mad as a game that's consistently annoying, tedious and unfun, but then randomly throws in one of the best horror sequences in a game i've ever experienced only to never do it again.
I bought this game in 2014 and after couple of hours forgot about it... I came back to it in 2023 and I really enjoyed playing through :) it will never be as good as the original which I plaid as a little kid... now as a grown up old man I like thief 4 too :)
The stealth mechanics were fine, but the horrible AI, terrible voice acting, forgettable story with lame characters, repetitive missions, and weak level design really brought it all down. I also had horrible system performance on PC when it came out. Such a disappointment.
I really liked this one! I'm really impressed that you were able to keep a consistent pace and level of interest throughout too, cuz I normally find myself zoning out at some point during longer videos like this. My only criticism would be that the transitions between segments sometimes came a bit abruptly compared to the flow of your phrases, but it was still really good! 😁👍
So the original Thief trilogy was an immersive sim while the new Thief is an anti-immersive sim. Luckily Blood West can be considered "what if Garrett was reincarnated as a cowboy, died, and then got resurrected as an undead nightmare to exterminate undead".
Immersive Sim more like pretentious the genre my god, what's an Immersive sim what's included what's not you tell me? Old ass PC games that not only looks like trash play like it too 😮 yet lauded because it carries the of so mystique meaningless term of 'Immersive Sim' hilarious 😂 Thief 2014 in unnobjectionably the best thief game ever made gamers go on on orn about how but but subjectivity lol nah the old thief sucks , don't hold up at all in the slightest we can compare and contrast all things in this world I guess thier in no agreed upon best anything ever! ex best Basketball Player that year etc , subjectivity the crutch of old heads 😂
14:00 - this right here is the symbol of what was wrong with the game. It was alright as a game, but there was a LOT of bad game development choices made that really held the game back. This was the first game that made me sit back and question "why am I playing video games? Do I not enjoy gaming anymore?"
Great review, and still sad to listen to, especially the part of "Rule of Cool" and the cinematic experience. Seems this is still a thing that is going on, and the free simulation experience, along with RPG elements that inserts you into the world, giving you actual choices, is just gone. There are a few experiences, and a lot subpar, that doesn't come close to the original, and it just absolutely sucks. The whole cinematic experience works for the movies, for that very reason, but a game isn't a movie, and oh how I hated opening those windows, watching cutscenes, and blablabla. Dishonored had its fair share of cinematic events too, but they really wanted to emulate the thief world, in their own take, and outdid it so incredibly well, which puts Thief 4 to such shame, since they were supposed to be the continuation, and evolvement of the originals, but it feels more like it's devolving.
I was assured that making a bad game is usually just as difficult as making a good one, unless you made it bad intentionally to save time but then it is still a difficult process. He said bad games are usually due to interference and/or incompetence and that almost no games are intentionally made to be bad. Makes a great deal of sense to me for any complex project.
As a Thief game it's blasphemy in church, yeah. If you completely erase your expectations and treat it as a slightly more stealthy Dishinored clone, it's "ok". Just "ok".
I just played it for the first time for ps5. I never played the originals, and yup - it’s okay. I just wished they would patch it so it runs better with 60fps and no frame jutter
“In the original games you could shoot rope arrows practically anywhere...” what? No, this is factually not true lol rope arrows could only be used on wooden surfaces. VINE arrows could be on any surface but they weren’t given to the player until the game was practically over.
he said "basically" everywhere, to make a valid point. maybe you don't know what basically means in this context. in Thief 1 and 2 you had many more places and opportunities to use rope arrows and change how you approach a mission. In Thief 4, you had very few predefined specific spots in the entire game where a rope arrow could be shot and did not make much difference in your mission. Also in Thief 4 those rope arrow spots are highlighted for idiots. In Thief 1 and 2 you get gratification from finding structures that would take a rope arrow. And your comment about vine arrows is actually what is factually not true, they cannot be shot on any surface either, just on a couple more surfaces besides wood.
@@Curt_Randall “basically everywhere” and “ONLY wooden surfaces” are two very different things, you’re the one that’s confused here. There are many different materials besides wood used in the thief games for sound propagation and other strategic options. Go into a mechanist building and you’ll be hard pressed to find a wooden surface anywhere. Vine arrows have stuck to every solid surface I’ve shot them at, so if you want to contest that you have to actually give a concrete example rather than just a “nuh uh!” 😂
Certainly the worst part of this is the door animations, remember Chaos Theory? Released nine years earlier? The one with the door animations the player could control completely? It's remarkable how forgetful the industry can be.
Also everything you said about stealing random junk is true, as well as with the door animation. They really should have run all these gameplay mechanics through some testing first. Because the setting and the sounds are pretty cool. Almost assasins creed like
Thing about that "junk" is.. those aren't cheap scissors and pen like we have, those are actually Gold or Silver scissors and pens, which even to this day, a gold plated Scissor or Pen is still worth a pretty penny.. Silver unfortunately has declined quite a bit.
@@samuelhaverghast2442 Yeah, out of all the problems this game has the fact silver pens are worth a lot is the least of them. I actually liked that bit. They are easy to steal and are worth a lot, of course you would steal them if given an option
All those issues about the city... If I remember correctly, in Thief 3 Garet actually marked locations that he stole from on his map, factions would attack you if you become an enemy after certain point (and you could regain their friendship), and guards would not attack you if you not famous enough or didn't do anything illegal... Oh... And all that city shenanigans were an actual preparation before the next mission (like stealing maps, gathering info, etc.) + some main missions took place directly in that city... And all side missions were just a fun sidestories that made the city more alive and immersive... It's like developers had a perfect example on what to do, but they did completely opposite...
As someone who never heard of the series before this installment, I'd I've had a pretty good time with it so I've never really understood where did all the hate come from
Great video. Find it bizarre a studio such as Eidos Montreal who did such a great job giving players freedom in the Deus Ex games become so constricting in their game design for Thief.
The game industry is repurposing old games IP for the masses now, not the original fans. Games are being made bad like this on purpose, not by accident. The masses don't want very complicated, difficult games.
Horrible take considering Elden ring sold 20 plus million copies, And why would devs want to make a game for og fans opposed to the masses. It’s a business and games would most likely fail if it doesn’t appeal to the masses
I'm just playing this game for the first time because it was free on Epic. I never played the originals. I find it to be a bad game. Bad story, bad design, bad maps. Stupidly easy doesn't begin to tell it. And the filth... Embarrassing to the industry and to the people who made it. Utter trash.
What enticed you in the first place just the freeness herpes as long as it's free pretty dumb , bad story take it or leave it gameplay matters most of course, I like the gameplay and looks aesthetic etc, bad map design lol ok sure I'm sure you're like a cartographer, maps don't matter just like most post 2008 AAA games you can navigate this game purely by sight what a trash nock , get good the end 😂
I actually got introduced to Thief through the 4th game. I got it for free from some Xbox sale and thought that it was alright. I never beat it, though. But since everyone made such a big fuss over the game, I decided to check out the old games and instantly fell in love.
THANK YOU. It was the first game I ever sold because I couldn't even finish it. It was extremely boring and tedious and I don't see anybody who shares my views.
Perhaps a small correction: iirc, Garret does't steal to survive. Although it is his only way of subsistence, he actually steals by choice. It's what he likes to do. It's what he's really good at. And it's his wicked passion to overcome the challenges involved, and iirc also to achieve and live up to a reputation of being the best among thieves. The only time he stole out of real necessity was when he was a kid, until the keepers found him.
@@SyndicateOperative no. That's just his way of saying thieving is his choice of subsistence, like I said. He is a thief by choice, not by necessity. Garrett isn't a deadbeat without the skills or the brain to do anything else. Much the opposite. He could very easily be a successful craftsman, or artist, or businessman, and be paying bills that way. Thieving isn't a matter of survival for him; it's a career choice, rather. And it's only because because he's really that good at it, or otherwise thieving wouln't even be a reliable way of subsistence. It's a _very-high-risk/uncertain-reward_ kind of thing that will more likely grant you a dank cell in Cragscletft than a stable financial situation. Or a knife to the back. He is smart enough to know his limits. He'd be doing something else less risky and more reliable to pay rents if he wasn't so good at thieving and evading enemies.
I played Thi4f before the previous games. I thought the game was messy, disjointed, and unfocused mess. The game was just a chore to play, feeling like piloting a vehicle on tracks than a nimble thief. The levels were wayyyyyy too linear and the story... Dogshit. The graphics weren't bad, but the artstyle was: Too much darkness with small little shapes made it look awfully muddy and busy. I went back to play the previous games just to check if people were just bullshitting and my oh my... They weren't. The best part about this game is that it introduced me to the previous games.
This is what happens when they don't even play out the previous games to see where the gameplay comes from... totally clueless about what they needed to achieve
i had only ever played "theif: deadly shadows" it's was a pain in the ass to get running back in the XP days but once you did it was actually a great game after you figured out how to get past the first area. guess i may give this a go being it's on sale. but i HIGHLY recommend both STYX games if you're looking for a stealth game and haven't played them.
Bought the first Styx game for 2$ on GOG thinking " eh that might be fun , never really heard of that " and ended up really liking it 👍 Im not a stealth game enthusiast really but I 100% recommend Styx
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I remembered renting this and thinking it would be great like Dishonored. I can’t believe it’s been 7 years! Tell me this came out in October because I remember listening to Opie and Anthony ft. Jim Norton’s “Jocktober”
@@DefendUrPolicyDontScapegoatLie What doea your channel name and pic mean ?
I think Doom 2016 (AKA Doom *4)* was the right way to do it: be both a reboot AND a continuation that respects the original.
A openworld Thief game actually sound really good. All they need to do is copy Hitman and replace assasinations with thieving and it will be a easy GOTY if they manage to put a good story in it.
The best way I’ve seen thief 4 described is, “a thief game trying to be dishonored, a game inspired by the thief games”.
Very accurate
@@reallycool also, Erin is the girl from the ending of thief 3, (who tries to pickpocket Garrett) and is implied to be his protégé
Except in this reboot they state that this is a reincarnation of Garrett and the first three games are a historical myth, so this Erin could be anyone
@@reallycool oh I didn’t know that lol. I figured it was the same one my bad.
@Dale Macarena the originals, not thief 4
i feel like this game bombed and the entire triple A game industry was like "well i guess gamers just dont like stealth games anymore"
Well it was really a combination of Splinter Cell: Conviction, Hitman Absolution, and Thief 4. There’s a reason that the only one of these series still left standing is the one that ultimately returned to its roots
Kidboy you don't know what "it really was" cause you don't work in the industry nor do you know someone in it. You're just simply what's called a "basement dwelling typer" which means you just say anything 🤡
There was a weird phase in late 2000s and early 2010s when every major steallth game franchise going through a existential crisis. They were rebooting every stealth franchise, and it was always with a new creative team who didn't even understood what made the original great in the first place.. I think Metal Gear Survive officially put the last nail in the coffin on steath genre
Stealth games just like horror games have been on a decline for a while there's no denying that, there are outliers like Hitman and Resident Evil but generally stealth same as horror doesn't sell very well in the AAA arena.
@@charaznable8072 at least horror games get churned out like butter by the indie dev community, stealth doesnt get nearly as much attention.
Imagine buying a stolen painting that's beeing cut with a razor. That would make the painting smaller every time it's stolen.
Its just cut from the canvas, probably put onto a different canvas.
Easier to steal as well, if you’ve ever watched them explain it on white collar.
The different pieces of your equipment that you use to traverse the world weren't a problem in and of themselves, actually -- I quite appreciated that you often needed to have specialized equipment to get unique items that you could subsequently view (even rotating the model around) at your leisure. It's one of the few gameplay mechanics I wish had been fleshed out more in Deadly Shadows.
The problem is that you end up carrying so much specialized equipment on you (razor is fine, wrench/wirecutter/permanent trinkets, not so much) that it screws with one of the key tenets of the first two games -- that Garrett was such an expert that he discarded most of his extraneous equipment between missions, not just because he enjoys the challenge (he specifically wears shoes with taps on them because not doing so would make sneaking far too easy!), but because the extra gear typically bogs him down and you never really have a need beyond some extra arrows or fence tips per mission.
It doesn't help that most of the places you need to access with this specialized equipment are ''extremely'' superficial -- either an item that's right behind a grate that you need to unscrew, or a path that is still just a slightly-alternate circuit through an otherwise-linear stage that only has one path anyway.
@@Ghost_Of_SAS fun fact, that’s why the Mona Lisa is so small nowadays! It’s been cut and stolen so many times it’s now theorised to be half its original size! (Which is a LOT when it comes to canvas)
I actually really enjoyed this game, it might just be because I never played the originals and I just was looking for a sneak based game but I thoroughly enjoyed it
It had penty of flaws and was plagued with bugs, but overall it was enjoyable.
Lol.
Same.
Yeah its definitely not the the worst game of all time. Guy clearly never played Agony
same for me as well. i enjoyed.
Thief thematically is about the BALANCE of order and chaos.
Too much chaos? You get the Trickster - the apotheosis of the Pagans
Too much order, you get Karras - the apotheosis of the Hammerites or their Mechanist cult
The Keepers are trying to keep a balance between these two forces.
This is what future Thief devs and projects need to understand x
Wow! Hey! You are really insightful! You're totally right! I remember all the quotes about Balance in the original games.
Yep spot on. It's all about the balance. Even the Keepers themselves lost balance by trying to believe they're above it and they can decide what it is. That's how you got the Hag.
The thing is, the Thief Franchise doesn't NEED rebooting. Thief Deadly Shadows ended with Garett taking in an orphan girl to train her. Why not make her story? 10-20 years after Karras, Trickster and the Hag? No more Glyphs, with both Technology AND Magic probably under lockdown, could definitely set a nice sort of renaissance \ Victorian era with a lot of hidden factions vying for the power vacuum left behind the big guys. Missions exploring old pagan or mechanist hideouts, stuff that the protagonist has only ever heard about second hand from her mentor.
But even if you DO reboot, don't use Garett as the protagonist, use him as the mentor. He should be what Artimus was for Garett. You can't have Garett without Stephen Russel, so just move on from him. Be the Bioshock to Thief's System Shock. Dishonored 2 knew to use Stephen Russel as the voice of Corvo, because Dishonored was inspired by Thief.
Like I said, there's plenty of directions you can take this to, even incorporating some elements of the new Thief's story. But this new Thief had everything wrong. Bad story, bad characters, bad design, bad ai, I remember being so disgusted after playing it.
It's insane how you can simply make observations, end it with "x" after backhandedly telling the developers how to do their job (which you have no experience in) and people will bomb you with internet points
you represent everything I despise about armchair game critics
@@LudvigJosvason Yeah he told devs who made a mediocre entry in a good franchise, so mediocre it killed the franchise, what to do storywise and thematic wise with the franchise based on its previous successful entry. Your take is pretty terrible. Reflecting and advising is valid criticism. You however, are obviously either a failing game dev, or someone who has a personal attachment to a game so that if someone criticizes it you think they're criticizing you. Grow up.
@@LudvigJosvason you can dismiss it and scroll along.
It's kinda interesting that they dug up the title "Thief Taker General". Back in the 1700s I believe, in London, before the city had an organized police force, Thief Taker General was an official position assigned by the parliament to someone who was good at recovering stolen property for a fee. What ended up happening was that the Thief Taker General was actually working with the gangs (and sometimes even running them). Basically, he was both the problem and the solution, which let him make a huge amount of money out of both the gangs and the victims.
2 words, Jenny Craig
While you're most certainly right on much of it, I do believe the thief-taker general was a much less official position, and was a self-styled title for a vigilante by the name of Jonathan Wild. Don't let this discount the other things you've said, though! I'm just a silly pedant. ❤
@@Koweth All I know about this topic comes from the Extra History video series, Policing London, so I'm hardly an authority. You could be right.
@@Andre-fq6xg extra history is a wonderful way to learn history. I'm glad you've watched their content! 🙂
@@Koweth Yeah, I like history. My favorite time period is Victorian England.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who actually likes this game, and I started with the original Thief; not Thief Gold, the original Thief the Dark Project. I played all of them and I still like this one. I admit it's the worst of the bunch, but it's still fun. Navigating The City is a bitch, but the missions aren't terrible. Maybe I just love Thief (as a brand/concept) too much.
There's nothing wrong with liking something irrespective of it's quality.
I like it too. In comparison to games coming out today, its a good one. Actually I like the gameplay and ont like the story.
I would disagree heartily. The missions are quite bad. Literally the only mission that felt like a thief mission was a DLC. Obviously the developers realized they done f*cked up, so they gave the fans what they wanted in the form of a 20 minute after thought. If the whole game had been like the bank heist, this game would have been an incredible addition to the series. But instead of being about stealing, it's about drama, magic, plague, civil unrest. When I found myself stumbling through an abandoned asylum trying to avoid goblin creatures, I realized the creators had no idea what game they were supposed to be creating.
I love this game 🎯
No, you're not. The only difference is that you don't make "being a gamer TM" your personality and therefore, you can afford to say stuff like
"Thief 4 was pretty good" or "Walking Dead Survival Instinct was flawed as f but there is enjoyment to be had" etc.
People have cornered themselves into their own perceived notion that being a gamer TM came with a checklist or some sh!t like that. 9 years ago, it was cool to say that Fallout 3 was sh!t and FF6 was a better FF than FF7... Because they all know that, statistically, FF7 is most people's first RPG so, claiming to like the previous one(s) makes you a more OG gamer TM...
You have a super-power in today's day and age: you can like things you like without giving 2 fµcks about what other people will think about you. You are a free person.
They're not, they're trapped, trying their hardest to convince the rest of the world that they are REAL gamerz TM, which REQUIRES you to sh!t on Fallout 3, only praise the first 2, sh!t on Thief 4, only praise the previous ones etc. Any deviation from that and they'd feel like Candy Crush players... Which should be okay to be... but...
There's a good reason why Dark Souls games took off... Are you really a gamer if you haven't beaten them? But wait!!! In which difficulty? Well, there's no easy difficulty, is there?... But what if there was? Ever thought about that? Then it would mean that "I beat Dark Soul" could mean "I beat it in easy difficulty"... which would make you NOT a real gamer! And we can't have that... can we? Oh no, we can't. Even though adding an OPTIONAL mode wouldn't take anything away from the game, it could damage Dark Souls players' very fragile ego... See what I mean? It's all about ego, gamer credentials etc. That's the reason they played the game in the first place and the reason they're fighting so hard against the inclusion of an (optional) easy mode
You don't care about that. So you can say stuff like "guys, I actually liked it!", you should be proud of yourself. I mean that. You are a complete person, on your own, you don't need other people's approval to exist. You are more than your video game "achievement" list. They're not.
You can enjoy this good game (not great but "good" is already quite good!), they can't. That's really sad when you think about it, how many other stuff they are missing out on?! And for what? Impressing DarkLordxxx666 on the internet? To what end? He beat dark souls too and he thinks he's a better gamer than you anyway...
Thief 4, worse game ever... Can you imagine believing something like that?! I mean, the PS2 alone has 2500 games... Thief 4 is worse than all of them and then some?! How pathetic it is to live like that... I feel sorry for them, happy for people like you.
I remember reading somewhere that the devs for Thief 4 had not played the originals and that they made a stream playing the first one and they were commenting the differences like "Wow this Garret is so different from what we've made". Unbelievable.
I wish I'd seen that
I wish i could unsee that.. disgusting
Well, garret isnt in thief 4, its a brand new character.
And considering "Randy Smith, a designer on the original trilogy, suggested to the studio of creating a new character instead of using Garrett" I find it increasingly hard to believe the devs never played the original games.
This is simple BS. Devs knew and played all previous Thief games of course.
stop making shit up
“a thief with a heart of gold”
ehh, I dont know if that exactly describes garett. he more “wont do something overly malicious if he doesn’t have to, but will still get his hands dirty if he does” kind of guy.
then add in a splash of amicability and cynicism, and you got Garett!
@@midshipman8654 Exactly!
Garret is like "For f%$k's sake, how did I get myself into this stuff again? Eh, might as well save the world or whatever. If those freaks destroy it where am I gonna steal stuff?"
ya ‘heart of gold’ is basically an archetype. whatever you said isn’t really. thats what hes getting at.
The girl in Thi4f is probably a nameless girl Garrett catches in the ending of Thief: Deadly Shadows (№3). It wraps up the story of Garrett himself: in the beginning of Dark Project he is recruted to Keepers the same way, through failed attempt to steal keeper's property. Personally back then I would like to see a game where we could play as apprentice of Garrett. Alas, got a different outcome.
Thi4f is the game no one actually been asked for. The story of previous trilogy is concluded: all major power structures in the City were contained and balance restored, there is nothing else to do.
this is canonically not the same garret. She is Garret's apprentice, who he decided to teach when she tried to steal from him. He caught her red handed trying to pickpocket him
She was raised in the house of blossoms and when it came the time for her to have her first time, she kills the customer. She escapes when a guard caught her red handed as he was patrolling. She tries to survives on the streets, sees Garret, tries to steal from him, Garret catches her hand, then she escapes and she chases him and he loses her. She came to Basso because he's the only one she knew in the city (according to Basso) and he shelters her. Basso calls Garret because she wants her to meet him, he just thought they would get along, and when he shows up she realizes he's the guy she tried to steal from. Time skip, Garret is her mentor now, a guard is about to attack Garret and she kills him instead of knocking him out, and Garret refuses to work with her anymore. This is taking in mind she has killed people before against Garret's orders (she doesn't always kill them). She becomes an assassin after that.
That's all in the comic, but the game does show a scene where she kills a guy in the house of blossoms and escapes. I also think it was pretty clear they were partners in crime, idk why mrixt had doubts, everything else is just not clear in the game (that scene with Eryn at the house of blossoms is so random and vague you don't piece it together, I was just confused)
I find it weird that the comic also differs from the canon that the game presented.
I feel the biggest flaw of Thief 4 was the complete removal of the lore that made the old games feel so fascinating. The Keepers, Hammerites, Mechanists and Pagans.
This is quality content, you''ve got yourself another subscriber!
Yeah that was basically the problem for me
I seriously dont understand why they made it if they didnt love and honor the previous games.
Yeah they could have introduced the less annoying girl from 3rd thief game ending with Garrett as mentor, and they really should have improved the positional audio so you can actually hear where footsteps come from. Oh well, we have Dishonored for a spiritual successor instead.
this game is such a strange case. it feels like a first draft of a game that got polished enough to get a semi-functional release. it feels like the sorta version of a game somebody would make to experiment with ideas before they scrap most of it and use the good ideas in a different draft.
far from being worst game of all time , i actually enjoyed the game a lot
I think a better title would be "biggest disappointment of all time". The game may be fine and dandy when viewed in a vacuum, but it has very little of what makes a Thief game special, other than a basic premise.
It's a good game. Sure, it doesn't reach the creative heights from 1 and 2, but I have enjoyed playing it several times. This guy's just got a beef.
@@PikkaBird I'm currently playing through and that's pretty much were I sit. As someone who only played the originals a little I didnt really have the same attachment as the community and coming at it from that perspective I quite like the game. Far from prefect, but servicable and has some good levels. But I cant totally understand the fan reaction as it's a huge departure of what made those originals so iconic.
@@PikkaBird there were games with far more hype than this that bombed
@@trtvitor1385Of course, if you look at it in the grand scheme of things there have been some spectacular fumbles. But from the point of view of a Thief fan this game was an atrocious dud.
This was my first Thief game and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Thanks for featuring my map! It's the one with ink all over the place and I made it because I really hated the whole UI, including the map in Thief 4 for it's modern and sterile style. This one looks like it's straight from Garrett's pocket.
Actually I quite like the game for it's atmosphere, and as a standalone I'd love it I think, including all the animations... I actually like that... As an entry to the Thief franchise though.. Uh... [insert rant]
I'm old and played Thief 1 on release and I am still replaying all the games once in a while because they are really that great.
What redeems Thief 4 a bit, is the fact that we are able to switch off nearly all HUD elements so you got none of that modern crap on your screen and can go full immersion. The elements that are left are tweakable by a few mods (like the always slightly visible equipped weapons and tools).
Concerning Eren: She's Garrett's wayward apprentice, which is why he cares and feels responsible to her (which doesn't excuse this horrible emo story they pushed on this game). When they were still developing the game as a real prequel to the franchise, she was supposed to be the girl Garrett catches stealing in the end of Thief 3.
Basso is actually a character from Thief 2, and the guy whose girlfriend Garrett frees in the very first mission of the game.
When they rebooted, all these references got lost of course. :(
It was my first stealth game, so I obviously liked it quite a bit, and it brought me into the stealth game genre
Same thing! And even after I played Dishonored and Deus Ex series, Thief 4 remains to be a good game for me, thx to the amazing esthetics, atmosphere, and a cool fluent gameplay 😉
Hope you got into Metal Gear by now
I'm glad you mentioned about the action buttons and loading times, that was such a big deal on consoles. I remember playing this game on Xbox back in the days, it was annoying going through this action and then having a loading time after that.
The woodsie lord probably one of the coolest villains of all time. Wish it could be continued or expanded on.
I used some mods when playing through Thief 4, it removed that weird focus perk and did a lot of other things to make the game seem more like the older thieves (mostly like thief 3). But the mod actually made it a lot of fun,I do really hate the button mashing and the walking through the tight passageway.
However, I loved the city when playing thief 3 back when it released and I do think it makes it a little bit more alive by going to the different missions.
Nice video, I enjoyed it!
the biggest crime of this game is the thief taker generals haircut
I played this game because it was free on some launcher. Saw it was released after dishonored 1, cackled. What a failure.
I also got it for free from epic this week and i dropped it after an hour it aint it
I am playing thief after playing Dishonored 2 and I feel like something is missing because I can't jump where ever I wan't, fighting is almost non existing and arrow aim is so lame. I know it's a stealth game and you should avoid fighting but that I can not use bow and arrow normaly is annoying.
As a outsider to the games, I personally enjoyed the game. Not many games get that stealth feeling right. Now the game is $19.99 and comes with the bank heist DLC. That was a great decision to add the DLC on. I enjoy it for what it is. It will keep me entertained for a while.
I personally enjoyed this game and yes, I've played every single thief game.
"The third one is with Orion, so you go to Orion and... _vision steal(?)..._ the last piece from him. While being attacked(?)... maybe, suddenly, by... a ghost(?)... of Erin(!?)... the girl you care about for some reason? This leads Orion to suddenly see you there, because.... you were invisible maybe(?)"
"AND THE THIEF TAKER GENERAL IS THERE NOW!"
I've never seen a more hilarious story recap in a video before, lol. Trying hard to lay out the whole thing, spoilers or no, but it's so bizarrely/poorly told that _you actually can't really do it._ All the events just too loosely stitched together in a way that leaves too many question marks to really form all the connective tissue necessary. Best way to point out a flaw is just to bust out an example and show it plays out :P God damn, this whole video is brilliant - your work is super entertaining; so glad I discovered this channel.
Thanks! I really tried, too!
@@reallycool Oh it shows, lol! And we all greatly appreciate the effort too (^-^)
I do have to point out that it's established from the beginning that they see each other as family (rivals but still with a familial bond) That's why he cares about Erin.
Thief 3 was my intro to the series and still my favorite. I replay it at least once a year.
Me too, I also like to replay Thief 3 from time to time
The Cradle calls
I feel like thief 3 is the worst of the trilogy, but also kind of the easiest to get into. That’s why it’s my most played thief as well.
Like thief 1 and 2 are better, but boy some of those quest are hard and I actually really like the third person view of thief 3.
@@WaddyMuters true. The Thieves guild pisses me off at least once every playthrough
you can now play a mod called Black Parade, which is a pretty good thief game in and of itself
So when I got the game I had no clue it was part of a series so i judged it as a stand alone game. It ended up being one of my favorite games to play, despite all it’s flaws. I’m quite surprised you didn’t mention the complete lack of brightness adjustability (at least on console). It’s such a dark game and it’s lack of brightness settings really makes it hard to play in anywhere but a dark room.
I pretty much agree with everything you said about it, except I feel like the story is more fleshed out than you’ve given it credit for (not by much to be fair).
Actually before today I didn’t know the game was so hated. Completely valid and understandable, just took me by surprise.
I loved this game. Sound, graphics, atmosphere were all great. Yeah, it's weird being a master thief stealing random crap from people's houses, but I never played the original games and thoroughly enjoyed the stealth. It's like a medieval Splinter Cell with supernatural stuff mixed in.
Hmmm like that explanation
It's just Dishonored, but a bit buggy still a somewhat good game
@@MonkeySupa7 Dishonored series was inspired by thief
Awww well bless your heart 💕
Those last words say it all. It's such sad that this is the end for such a lovely series of games, I can't even find the thi4f teaser pictures or arts anymore, they promised so much and somewhere along the road, they just let a bunch of manager's papa's boys to handle the project.
Yeah... I forgot that they promised so much. I was interested because of the teaser content, but I never got the game until years later at a heavily discounted price... Even that didn't really feel worth it.
As a call back - Have you also played the rebooted 'Syndicate'? - Taking a tactical isometric game and converting it to an FPS.... oh boy.
oh god no wonder I didn't hear much about it. That just sounds DUMB. Who was the clown in charge of that circus?
Great video that put the short comings of this game into words I couldn't quite express myself.
I was waiting for the moment when you mentioned the ton of mini-animations you do throughout the game. It's probably what I was most annoyed about with the game.
I'm a big fan of the 3 first games as well and pre-ordered this one but only played through it once, where I would play the old games so much that I would even ghost them and feel inspired by the atmosphere of the world to the point of ALMOST making fan fiction.
The atmosphere is the thickest, realest, most inspiring I’ve ever come across.
The way you’ve broken this down is exceptional, sir. Thank you for putting into words what anyone who played this game felt was SO far off from previous titles.
Thanks, yeah I wanted to finally be able to say exactly what it was I don't like about it, and now I think I can do that
@@reallycool I don't like you don't you dare say anything like that about thief you're bad fuck off
Honestly I like animation but holy shit this game has way too many
I love the dodge you can do (though it should have bigger a cool down) which helps out with dealing with sneaking between large gaps or getting out of potentially dangerous situation which can get you caught
@@titanjakob1056 i can agree there
The biggest thing that bugged me was what Thi4f did with the blackjack. In the original games, it was so satisfying bonking guards over the head with the blackjack, and that was only a simple melee attack. You don't get the same levels of satisfaction when you try to make it "cinematic" by reducing it to an animation while playing an unnecessary sound effect every time you do it.
@@TheCrimsonElite666 in the OG series, it was also a coin toss between enemies being deaf af and suddenly all of them having sight and hearing ability of Superman
I laughed my ass off from 50:00 to 53:00 because the way you tried to explain the confused ending. I think writers were just as confused.
A bit late here but this was a game that I never got much past the introduction because it was really boring and slow, having dropped it like two times.
Dishonored on the other hand, I finished both of them on the hardest difficulty. What a masterpiece.
That Thief 4 game had exceptional graphics for it's time to be honest, to give it credit where credit is due (unfortunately that's hard to see because of visual aesthetic they chose)
I think thats why its a bit linear with these qte to mask loading times. I think if it had been designed only for PC it would look and play differently.
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc I'm sorry. But no. The graphics were really muddy and they looked worse then Dishonored and Bioshock (the most recent Bioshock game had, in fact been built in the same engine). That is some EXTREME rose tinted specs you got there.
@@Stettafire yes visual aesthetics not pleasing, both dishonored and to a lesser extent Bioshock Infinite were shone for being graphically outdated (but aesthetically good)
Anyone else spend most your time trying to remember where tf you are supposed to be going when you were not staring at a loading screen? Blessings from Ireland, great channel 🇮🇪
I like thief 4, but I am glad I can now understand why people hate it thanks to this video.
A big difference from the past garret and the new one, is that like you said he steals because he needs to, but the reboot one just has an addiction to stealing (the patient that the asylum talks about might not be Garret, but the ending confirms he has an addiction)
edit: Throughout the video, I kept thinking "yes, he fell off" because this Garret has an addiction problem. This is canon, it's not an unintentional portrayal as a result of poor writing edit2: Also, my headcannon is that Garret is not a reliable narrator, and that everything we see can be put in doubt, even the existence of the thief taker general or at least his boss battle. The comic is the true canon, which is unfinished
this was my first thief game, i thought it was alright. Definitely far better than some of the other disasters that come out nowadays
100%
I hate this days fifa and cod 2 games that are way of that gamers likes
Yeah, that is probably the best description. It's alright. And forgettable.
But only for the fact that it's neither the best game ever made, nor absolute shite, nor a trainwreck, nor laden with controversy.
It exists and has no major flaw, but also doesn't set itself apart.
@@infinitygamer-un4qq people were complaining about fifa and cod when this thief game came out lol, literally nothing has changed.
I recently finished the originals, and I personally think that this game is alright. Definitely in my top 10
@atheilredpeople have different tastes
How boring shall we make the game?
Eidos-Montréal: "Yes"
I never understood the hate it got. I'm an old Thief fan and I bought this on release and really liked it. After I finished it I was surprised when I found how much hate it got. I recommend really giving it a try. It is a good game.
As a stealth game, I'd be real interested in how Kojima would tackle a reboot or sequel, but only as far as gameplay goes that is. I'm sure if he had his hands on it it'd probably miss the mark entirely in the narrative department and have it all turned into a exposition-heavy narrative on the military with 80 hours of cutscenes and inserted characters named after movies or something lol 😅
It would be weird thats all I know.
I don't know why I just watched a 1 hour video of gus fring talking about a game I've never heard of from a series I've had no experiences with, but I enjoyed the experience 👍
I hide in plain sight.
I have fond memories of playing all the Thief games, even 4. You make a lot of valid points, especially about opening windows, not marking them, etc. I can see the influence of classic Thief on Metro Exodus. Thanks for the memories--I was going to give it another try, but now I remember why I got frustrated with it.
I played Thief deadly shadows and this one, I actually like this one while it may not have the charm of the older ones, but i think they did portray being a thief really well, its nerve wracking hearing voices and footsteps nearby when lockpicking or taking items or finding where the prize is.
What a fantastic breakdown that eloquently put into words exactly what I was feeling after sinking 3.3 hours into this game. I got it on steam for 2.5 british pounds and still feel ripped off.
Should have just bought Dishonored
As a kid who got the game for 30 bucks and never played the old games, i loved it 9/10
I'm fighting for this beautiful game to be remembered fondly. It's different from the originals, that doesn't make it bad. One of my fav games of all time. I payed $60 for my copy and it was worth every penny to me. It's a game I can play to soothe my OCD anxiety and the visuals/sounds are beyond relaxing.
I'm really pleased you had that experience.
gross
@@mihaimercenarul7467 this comment is gross 😃
@@IshidaSado nope, it's the truth
@@mihaimercenarul7467 I'm sorry that you've confused your shitty opinion with fact 😢 It must suck to lack so much awareness. Oh well. Now get out of my replies 🥰
Thief 4 is like: "You downloaded a wrong thief" kinda deal.
It would've been nice if there was like a tax collector or some rent or debt to pay so that Garrett was always starved for cash, giving the player more incentive to steal
Theres plenty to steal for, you got trinkets and other things that help for 28,000 gold and more.
Whenever I find myself replaying F.E.A.R., and find Offices deep down in a Level, I can't help but to think, how in Reality, the Employee would take half an Hour just to get to their Desk
I always felt like I didn’t get enough money for all the upgrades and tools available, granted I didn’t really replay missions, but for stuff like that upgrade worth 9,800 gold that increases health and focus, I would never get near that number cause I usually restocked arrows, bought tools I needed like the razor, and buy focus points
I legit thought you switched to Assassin's Creed footage when talking about the climbing mechanics, wow this game is messy
I don't think the rope arrow locations were due to narrative control. I think it's more likely:
1- the same reason why many modern games have yellow paint marking climbable ledges: the high graphical fidelity demands overly complex and overly cluttered map design, and then it becomes terribly hard to tell the important things apart from the clutter, unless they're glaringly marked. This is why I hate realistic graphics...
2- the fact that most of the city is made of wood. In T1 and T2, rope arrows could be shot at anything made of wood, because it only makes sense, and that must be accounted for in map design. But then the city missions were mostly made of stone and plaster, so the rope arrows were more useful inside a mansion's yard, for example, not as much in the city (except maybe for secrets). When the city is completely made of wood, then there's no way to limit rope arrows.
Either way, it's really unfortunate. Using a rope arrow in T2014 will never make you feel clever, or like you achieved something on your own.
It's very easy to make up something to bypass the limitation of rope arrow, Batman has been using a grippling gun for ages already, something like a "claw arrow" that could that grip on stones/ brick will do, but vastly more expensive, it also controls player freedom in hub, so there could be certain area the player could not explore until you have some of those arrow.
Thief isn’t in any realm the worst game of all time. I had fun of it and think it’s a pretty solid stealth game. The story is abhorrent, though.
This is coming from someone who practically worships every facet of the original trilogy.
the cathedral lvl in thief 1 was soooooo scary back then :D I generally agree with your review, 4 didnt live up to my expectations at all
It’s was the shalebridge cradle for me, my sister and I would seriously run away from the Xbox if one of those light bulb looking dudes caught us and run away again if he was still on screen trying to kill us lol
My favourite level was the Horn of quintus. The fact that you can hear it from far before seeing it was a genius idea. The whole level was so perfect. Mean while thief4 .. oh spoons. Gotta steal some of those. Ohh yeah... spooooooooonzzzzz
thief 1&2 are imo 2 of the best stealth games ever made, the voice of Garrett is iconic.
I played this back in the day because I thought it looked similar to dishonered. I remember it being pretty average. Not bad, just average. It's actually one of the few games I've actually beat.
This "Garrett" is the imposter mentioned in Deadly Shadows when Garrett looked through the window and saw "Garrett" and some dude trying to hire him for the job...
the new garret voice actor killed it tho i love his lines specifically
Having played all the games… I really liked this game. It is not like the other games, but I still found it enjoyable.
This feels like a game designed by the Lego franchise: mash buttons, move forward, and you’ll reach the end. Bummer. The creativity of the first game is what made it my favorite.
Which Thief game is your favorite? It's been a while, but 2 in my mind feels like the one I enjoyed the most playing through. I might do a playthrough from 1 to 4 just to see.
„Thief 4 the game I pre-ordered and the game I shouldn’t have“
Uff thanks for reminding me literally the only game ever I preordered. Never again.
LONG MAN. GOOD.
All of it for you
@@reallycool great to see one from you, sausage arms
Where are the views god damn it!!
@@lazy7789 PewDiePie stole them lol jk
I assume you played this on a modern pc, but this game was also plagued with severe technical problems on consoles at launch. On the PS4 version, there was a game breaking bug where attempting to get to one story area would put you in an infinite, inescapable loading screen. This bug wasn't fixed for months and it could never be fixed if your ps4 wasn't connected to the internet. It made a lot of people I know (including myself) stop playing it and never complete the game. I also remember bad framerate being an issue, especially during combat. That mightve played a role in its bad playerbase.
Thief 4 has one really good level. The ghost level. It's genuinely interesting and has a really good level design. The rest of the game is meh, nothing compared to the originals.
Sadly even that level is so incredibly linear
And it's a just a rip-off of the shalebridge cradle from thief 3
@@kingdomkey2262 A very bad ripoff. Shalebridge is still one of my favorite levels of all games.
This game makes me mad as a game that's consistently annoying, tedious and unfun, but then randomly throws in one of the best horror sequences in a game i've ever experienced only to never do it again.
I bought this game in 2014 and after couple of hours forgot about it... I came back to it in 2023 and I really enjoyed playing through :) it will never be as good as the original which I plaid as a little kid... now as a grown up old man I like thief 4 too :)
The stealth mechanics were fine, but the horrible AI, terrible voice acting, forgettable story with lame characters, repetitive missions, and weak level design really brought it all down. I also had horrible system performance on PC when it came out. Such a disappointment.
I really liked this one! I'm really impressed that you were able to keep a consistent pace and level of interest throughout too, cuz I normally find myself zoning out at some point during longer videos like this.
My only criticism would be that the transitions between segments sometimes came a bit abruptly compared to the flow of your phrases, but it was still really good! 😁👍
So the original Thief trilogy was an immersive sim while the new Thief is an anti-immersive sim. Luckily Blood West can be considered "what if Garrett was reincarnated as a cowboy, died, and then got resurrected as an undead nightmare to exterminate undead".
Immersive Sim more like pretentious the genre my god, what's an Immersive sim what's included what's not you tell me? Old ass PC games that not only looks like trash play like it too 😮 yet lauded because it carries the of so mystique meaningless term of 'Immersive Sim' hilarious 😂 Thief 2014 in unnobjectionably the best thief game ever made gamers go on on orn about how but but subjectivity lol nah the old thief sucks , don't hold up at all in the slightest we can compare and contrast all things in this world I guess thier in no agreed upon best anything ever! ex best Basketball Player that year etc , subjectivity the crutch of old heads 😂
14:00 - this right here is the symbol of what was wrong with the game. It was alright as a game, but there was a LOT of bad game development choices made that really held the game back. This was the first game that made me sit back and question "why am I playing video games? Do I not enjoy gaming anymore?"
Great review, and still sad to listen to, especially the part of "Rule of Cool" and the cinematic experience. Seems this is still a thing that is going on, and the free simulation experience, along with RPG elements that inserts you into the world, giving you actual choices, is just gone. There are a few experiences, and a lot subpar, that doesn't come close to the original, and it just absolutely sucks. The whole cinematic experience works for the movies, for that very reason, but a game isn't a movie, and oh how I hated opening those windows, watching cutscenes, and blablabla. Dishonored had its fair share of cinematic events too, but they really wanted to emulate the thief world, in their own take, and outdid it so incredibly well, which puts Thief 4 to such shame, since they were supposed to be the continuation, and evolvement of the originals, but it feels more like it's devolving.
I was assured that making a bad game is usually just as difficult as making a good one, unless you made it bad intentionally to save time but then it is still a difficult process.
He said bad games are usually due to interference and/or incompetence and that almost no games are intentionally made to be bad.
Makes a great deal of sense to me for any complex project.
Ok dude I like this game but the only thing i hated was the ending
As a Thief game it's blasphemy in church, yeah. If you completely erase your expectations and treat it as a slightly more stealthy Dishinored clone, it's "ok". Just "ok".
I just played it for the first time for ps5. I never played the originals, and yup - it’s okay. I just wished they would patch it so it runs better with 60fps and no frame jutter
Did anyone else get so lost and found the map nearly impossible to understand as it had no 3d element and made little sense.....or was it just me
“In the original games you could shoot rope arrows practically anywhere...” what? No, this is factually not true lol rope arrows could only be used on wooden surfaces. VINE arrows could be on any surface but they weren’t given to the player until the game was practically over.
he said "basically" everywhere, to make a valid point. maybe you don't know what basically means in this context. in Thief 1 and 2 you had many more places and opportunities to use rope arrows and change how you approach a mission. In Thief 4, you had very few predefined specific spots in the entire game where a rope arrow could be shot and did not make much difference in your mission. Also in Thief 4 those rope arrow spots are highlighted for idiots. In Thief 1 and 2 you get gratification from finding structures that would take a rope arrow. And your comment about vine arrows is actually what is factually not true, they cannot be shot on any surface either, just on a couple more surfaces besides wood.
@@Curt_Randall “basically everywhere” and “ONLY wooden surfaces” are two very different things, you’re the one that’s confused here. There are many different materials besides wood used in the thief games for sound propagation and other strategic options. Go into a mechanist building and you’ll be hard pressed to find a wooden surface anywhere. Vine arrows have stuck to every solid surface I’ve shot them at, so if you want to contest that you have to actually give a concrete example rather than just a “nuh uh!” 😂
@@uhuhuh1966 you're just trying to be a pain now playing word scrabble. from the video I know he played both games and know what he meant.
@@Curt_Randall is…is that you trying to say that my “big words” confuse you? The fuq? Get a dictionary and keep up or something 👀 phone a friend
Certainly the worst part of this is the door animations, remember Chaos Theory? Released nine years earlier? The one with the door animations the player could control completely? It's remarkable how forgetful the industry can be.
I still like thief 4 tbh.
Where were the Pagans?
The Hammerites?
The Keepers!?
No. This isn't Thief. I don't know what this game is.
Also everything you said about stealing random junk is true, as well as with the door animation. They really should have run all these gameplay mechanics through some testing first. Because the setting and the sounds are pretty cool. Almost assasins creed like
The one that always made me laugh the most were the scissors. It's just so petty.
Thing about that "junk" is.. those aren't cheap scissors and pen like we have, those are actually Gold or Silver scissors and pens, which even to this day, a gold plated Scissor or Pen is still worth a pretty penny.. Silver unfortunately has declined quite a bit.
@@samuelhaverghast2442 Yeah, out of all the problems this game has the fact silver pens are worth a lot is the least of them. I actually liked that bit. They are easy to steal and are worth a lot, of course you would steal them if given an option
All those issues about the city... If I remember correctly, in Thief 3 Garet actually marked locations that he stole from on his map, factions would attack you if you become an enemy after certain point (and you could regain their friendship), and guards would not attack you if you not famous enough or didn't do anything illegal... Oh... And all that city shenanigans were an actual preparation before the next mission (like stealing maps, gathering info, etc.) + some main missions took place directly in that city... And all side missions were just a fun sidestories that made the city more alive and immersive...
It's like developers had a perfect example on what to do, but they did completely opposite...
Well its free on Epic Games this week so...
I gave it a try, I'm uninstalling it xD
As someone who never heard of the series before this installment, I'd I've had a pretty good time with it so I've never really understood where did all the hate come from
Great video. Find it bizarre a studio such as Eidos Montreal who did such a great job giving players freedom in the Deus Ex games become so constricting in their game design for Thief.
The game industry is repurposing old games IP for the masses now, not the original fans. Games are being made bad like this on purpose, not by accident. The masses don't want very complicated, difficult games.
Horrible take considering Elden ring sold 20 plus million copies, And why would devs want to make a game for og fans opposed to the masses. It’s a business and games would most likely fail if it doesn’t appeal to the masses
I miss the old thief games, but this one isn't that bad.
I'm just playing this game for the first time because it was free on Epic. I never played the originals. I find it to be a bad game. Bad story, bad design, bad maps. Stupidly easy doesn't begin to tell it. And the filth... Embarrassing to the industry and to the people who made it. Utter trash.
What enticed you in the first place just the freeness herpes as long as it's free pretty dumb , bad story take it or leave it gameplay matters most of course, I like the gameplay and looks aesthetic etc, bad map design lol ok sure I'm sure you're like a cartographer, maps don't matter just like most post 2008 AAA games you can navigate this game purely by sight what a trash nock , get good the end 😂
I actually got introduced to Thief through the 4th game. I got it for free from some Xbox sale and thought that it was alright.
I never beat it, though.
But since everyone made such a big fuss over the game, I decided to check out the old games and instantly fell in love.
THANK YOU. It was the first game I ever sold because I couldn't even finish it. It was extremely boring and tedious and I don't see anybody who shares my views.
Perhaps a small correction: iirc, Garret does't steal to survive. Although it is his only way of subsistence, he actually steals by choice. It's what he likes to do. It's what he's really good at. And it's his wicked passion to overcome the challenges involved, and iirc also to achieve and live up to a reputation of being the best among thieves.
The only time he stole out of real necessity was when he was a kid, until the keepers found him.
Garrett steals to survive in the first three; it's mentioned regularly that the main reason he's taking on these jobs is because rent is due.
@@SyndicateOperative no. That's just his way of saying thieving is his choice of subsistence, like I said. He is a thief by choice, not by necessity. Garrett isn't a deadbeat without the skills or the brain to do anything else. Much the opposite. He could very easily be a successful craftsman, or artist, or businessman, and be paying bills that way. Thieving isn't a matter of survival for him; it's a career choice, rather.
And it's only because because he's really that good at it, or otherwise thieving wouln't even be a reliable way of subsistence. It's a _very-high-risk/uncertain-reward_ kind of thing that will more likely grant you a dank cell in Cragscletft than a stable financial situation. Or a knife to the back.
He is smart enough to know his limits. He'd be doing something else less risky and more reliable to pay rents if he wasn't so good at thieving and evading enemies.
I played Thi4f before the previous games. I thought the game was messy, disjointed, and unfocused mess. The game was just a chore to play, feeling like piloting a vehicle on tracks than a nimble thief. The levels were wayyyyyy too linear and the story... Dogshit. The graphics weren't bad, but the artstyle was: Too much darkness with small little shapes made it look awfully muddy and busy.
I went back to play the previous games just to check if people were just bullshitting and my oh my... They weren't.
The best part about this game is that it introduced me to the previous games.
I picked up the game today, I wanted to replay chapter 1 after completing it. Even using some guides I couldn't go back to chapter 1 start area
This is what happens when they don't even play out the previous games to see where the gameplay comes from... totally clueless about what they needed to achieve
i had only ever played "theif: deadly shadows" it's was a pain in the ass to get running back in the XP days but once you did it was actually a great game after you figured out how to get past the first area. guess i may give this a go being it's on sale. but i HIGHLY recommend both STYX games if you're looking for a stealth game and haven't played them.
The Styx games are criminally underrated.
Bought the first Styx game for 2$ on GOG thinking " eh that might be fun , never really heard of that " and ended up really liking it 👍 Im not a stealth game enthusiast really but I 100% recommend Styx
@@timinou9915 styx gang🤙
@@XX-121 😎🍻
I always recommend people to check out Styx. They are really closer then thief 4 and probably the closest games to the of thief trilogy out there.