I would like to see a theory about Sturm in the future. Do you think there will be more information in the remakes about the origins? My Tier List is the same: against Top Level Co´s like Kanbei and Sturm with an experienced Level player there is nothing than can stop them even if the battle is unfavorably for most of the time. In my experience, The S-Rank Tier and A-Rank Tier in combination with a great playstyle and knowing their strenghts/weakness they will come out as winner in 99% of the time.
It would have been funnier if Max was the one to interrogate Sturm because he got nerfed the hardest out of anyone -- Andy actually received a buff when Sturm "changed the meta."
Ironically, for me, it is the loss of health that annoys me more than the mere fuel icon. It's why Hawke is still at least an A-Tier CO in my book. He pretty much breaks the capture game for his opponent on large maps by taking away 1 HP from all infantry, which instantly increases the amount of time you need to capture with lone infantry units by 1.5 times (at least until the infantry heals after capture). I pretty much always use Andy whenever I have to go up against Hawke, Olaf, or Drake, as his CO power is a direct counter to theirs.
just realize something since you mention sonja's health hidden ability nullified by turning on battle animations... imagine the remake, if they're that detailed, they apply a static filter over sonja's unit screen in battle animations too to hide the unit's health..... I doubt they will do that....but damn if they do.... it would show the attention and care they are committed into this remake...
Should be pretty easy to do just in terms of the interface, but kind of pointless if you can still count the number of tank/men/planes/ships left in the unit; one for every two points of health. In the case of units represented by a single vehicle, such as bombers and battleshi,,s you'd need to count the number of times they fire. In the case of APCs and landers, there would be no way of telling at all.
@@amanofnoreputation2164 just make an overlay over sonja's units in the animations so it doesn't show the damage at all kind of like "LIVE FEED JAMMED" or something
@@amanofnoreputation2164 you got me wrong, what I mean is complete static cover(like white noise to simulate visuals been jammed) over sonja's side of the animation frame. you just don't see anything on her side if u turn on animations
So weak to snow in Sturm's case is like Superman's "Weakness" to magic. He just has no resistances to it, it affects him the same as any other normal person.
People say that. But if something bypasses your superpower (Invulnerability), it should be considered a weakness. Like how muramasa is considered Wolverine's weakness yet it affects him the same as everyone else, because it negates his healing factor.
@@gabrielcastejon7914 Yeah, makes sense. No matter if someone's invulnerable, or invisible, or he can fly or breathe under water, or whatever else, anything that negates the ability and transforms the person into basically just some regular strong dude would definitely be a weakness.
At first I was like "that footage looks sorta familiar". Feels super weird to see some of my old crappy footage used 11 years later for an analysis video. Either way, hype for the remake LESGO!
Something to bear in mind is that COs can move up and down tiers based entirely on map design, Sonja with or without FoW is the obvious example, but another slightly more obscure example is that all of the COs that deal global damage(Hawke, Olaf, Drake) are better on larger maps and worse on smaller maps. Unless a CO is entirely luck based, the map can and will play a huge part in how good a CO is.
Also the infantry specialists like Sami, and to a lesser extent Sensei, don't like huge maps that require high mobility. Grit also suffers a bit on maps that are very open and mobility dependent.
Def true, and i think mangs mentioned that as well. Sonja is weaker outta fog of war but generally plays more defensively due to improved counter strikes which are as strong as aw1 Max. Good Sonja ppl will not attack as much and keep many low hp units around to annoy you. Sami is worse if the map is large though her improved transports help her ferry the infantry more but again mech spam is less effective if they have to travel a long way forcing sami to use more transports and artillery having to move longer distances she might have to build tanks to interupt your caps at that pt. Max also might be harder to face if theres barely any forests, no chokepoints, and large making infintry cos harder to use and giving max easier time harrasing you if he has lotsa roads to bring recons around with. Balanced maps usually have chokepoints. And ya drake goes up if its a islands map with no airport and so many cities you can fund a navy. Again most maps will not be like this so this is rare esp since ships are so expensive.
@@colossaldonut5190 Interestingly drake's global damage makes him decent on any map that isn't too air heavy. Even then his anti air isn't weaker so he's not that crippled vs air enemies.
I think the word he was looking for was “nominal”-implying that a commander with no bonuses, but no weaknesses whose units do “exactly what they say on the tin.” You, are right that average is always average by definition, but since the average CO bonuses are better than the average weakness, a nominal powerless CO would be significantly worse than the actual average.
@@IONATVS Probably vanilla is the most accurate term. In stats, normal is a specific type of term just like average. If we are being anal enough to say not use average to mean bland or vanilla, then I guess we can be consistently anal and not use normal ;)
@@josephzeigler6853 I said "nominal" not "normal". You are correct that "normal" has a specific statistical meaning, but NOMINAL literally means "as it is named" and is used in technical engineering circles to say "exactly as specified in the original standard or document or blueprint that defined it" as opposed to merely within the acceptable margin of error (within tolerances) or completely out-of spec. Basically used to discuss what something is supposed to look like on paper so you can compare it to the often quite different reality.
@@MrMikpik except for the addition of the dual strike units and COs, all the COs that were in aw2 function exactly as they did in aw2 with the exception of Sturm. Since you can evaluate COs in a vacuum, I'm going to say you can use the awbw tier list as an authoritative list for aw2 as well.
@@blahmaster6k yeah I get what your saying, but the fact that there are more units and more Commanders changes the meta a bit, this one sticks only to aw2
I always found the double turn in DS to be the best and most exciting feature about DS. I care less about using both CO power on the same turn. Honestly I'd rather play with no CO powers or day to day bonuses at all but you get to charge up a double turn.
Wish certain people could put the past behind them, get their heads out of their asses and forgive the controversial thing Mangs did. The dude is literally the only notable Advance Wars content creator on here in my book.
@@squallleonhart9387 and he didnt even do anything wrong other than act cringy around a girl. im a believer that internet should be at least 13+ to get rid of these fucking idiots on twitter etc etc
The design philosophy behind Jess seems to have been that because her specialty encompasses so many units, ones that can potentially fill the roles of the air and (pffff) naval units it doesn't cover, they had to debuff her good to keep her from being overpower, overestimating the effect of quality over quantity. In reality, every advance wars game follows a predictable pattern of development: Early game infantry to develop the economy in and serve as fodder --> mid game light units for utility and mobility --> end game expensive heavy units for maximum stopping power to overwhelm choke points and either create a decisive opening or big enough value trades to erode the enemy capacity to produce units. Similar to Chess, the game can end at any stage of development; "end game" is just a reflection of what happens after skirmishes for outlying properties have settled and battle lines have formed. If any of these stages are hindered, it has a compound effect across time going into future stages. Jess is almost indistinguishable from Hawke in terms of her ground vehicles and has way better powers to support them, but she can't get to that point on sure footing because she has no alternative to using infantry to build up her forces. The only way to supplement this would be to play on maps where all the units are pre-deployed or the capture game is done away with in advance -- but where's the fun in that? Sonja has the opposite problem in that her early and midgame are strong, but her offensive capabilities are too weak to push her advantage. Sami has one of the best early games, but her midgame suffers because the only units that can circumvent her weaknesses are expensive air support, and they might not even be available. Sami mechs hit hard and cost dirt but don't have the necessary mobility to keep her early momentum going. Sensei has the same game plan as Sami, but can take it to the finish line because of his all-purpose -flying death buzzers- battle copters. Eagle could be said to specialize in the end game since his CO powers take a long time to develop but are powerful enough to swing the match once a strong force has been built up. Bad end games lead to stagnation. Bad midgames can be recovered from. But a bad early game makes everything an uphill struggle. A CO needs some serious strength to compensate for even the tiniest shortfall in infantry power, such as Grit in AW 1, or Colin in ADW2. Colin is a good CO period because even though he has weaker infantry, he can afford more of them, purchase mobile units like recons and battle copters to support them earlier, and needs fewer cities to support his economy. His end game doesn't suffer either because even though the power of his units is handicapped, he can still make good trades to wear the enemy down.
This seems right on the nose. Having to take the L on every early game battle by default is just debilitating. You can do things to make up for it, but the fact that you need to do that makes any counterplay even more effective because if you’re already likely playing suboptimally (either taking on more risk or preserving resources by taking free early properties) then any additional damage you incur compounds as the game progresses. Unless the CO has a really stellar way to come out into the midgame and take back what you either lost or missed out on, you just have a weaker CO.
Good analysis. One thing I will say though is that with Sami, using her COP and SCOP, and deploying indirects to support her infantry units can overcome infantry units lack of mobility
Colin's endgame is without equal though. Gold Rush is a relative increase so the more funds you have the better it becomes. During the end game if you ever let him pocket some cash he will spin out of control. After all the more money he has the more he will get. He pretty much doesn't have a powercap. So not only does he have a favorable trade in value but he can then also capitalize on that with gold rush. Also his lower deployment cost means being slightly behind in capture isn't as catastrophic for him as it is for other CO's. Finally his power of money means that even if you have a very strong wall build up he can gain the strongest firepower in the game and just blast through it.
@@Jet-Steam-Gray Eh, as someone else said Hachi can still build on super power, and I'd add that Sturm is basically *_slightly_* weaker Kanbei but with a meteor strike and a massive mobility buff letting him still win the game usually by retreating where you can't follow, out-maneuvering the enemy and marching through unexpected areas. If there's any decent amount of forests, mountains, or really anything with above 1 movement cost, and much more so in fog of war maps, I would say Sturm still dominates Kanbei. Never underestimate how powerful movement is.
Wow, I never realized that combining two units with more than 10 HP total refunds you the leftover HP as cash. Thanks for mentioning it in the Sensei section. This knowledge will come to good use for sure!
If I was designing the game I'd have made it you get 30% of the funds back to discourage merging for funds, but I want the remake to be fully faithful so I'd be disappointed if they copied my suggestion.
I played black hole rising on my older cousins old game boy advance and I really liked using black hole COs. Especially sturm because he reminded me of darth Vader and kid me was obsessed with Darth Vader
Darth Snifit RISES!!! But yeah Sturm is a really neat design and the best mix of comedically villainous and genuinely terrifying in terms of intimidation
I'm halfway into the video, on Kenbei, and I'm loving it so far. The funny analogies, the production value, the level of experience you have really shows as well. Great to see these videos, I hope you're having as much fun making them as we are watching.
Just like Hyper Repair, Hyper Upgrade also increases defense by 10% too. It probably matters a lot more in Hyper Upgrade than in Hyper Repair. Edit: I just learned all CO Powers increase defense by 10%. Derp.
I feel like an interesting conversation is: where would Drake - or just sea units in general - be if we had access to Days of Ruin sea units? I really liked Days of Ruin units because it seemed to make sea units actually viable without requiring you to pour a ridiculous amount of cash into them.
Grit with DoR battleships sounds terrifying. like holy hell. I don't know if Drake would be much better as Naval combat is more about countering units than mirror matches where def actually comes into play. like the only mirror matches you'll ever really see are Cruisers v Cruisers because cruisers annihilate subs and subs destroy battleships/gunboats/landers. for what is worth though Drake's fuel draining CO power would be really good against Sea Planes, and air units in general which at least from my experience tend to run out of fuel a lot faster in DoR.
@@CosmicToad5000 My original thoughts was that the DoR sea units were way cheaper than they were in AW 2, but it wasn't as much as I remember, save for being able to spam gunboats. One thing that really stands out to me between sea units in AW2 and DoR is that you actually get a hard counter against air units in DoR via Cruisers. I think they were supposed to be a counter in AW2 (They had an AA gun, after all), but they were destroyed so easily, even by battle copters, that there was no point in building them for that purpose.
Tbf, even in DoR, as long as Bombers and Seaplanes get the first strike on Cruisers they can get crippled, though they’ll take a bunch of damage from the counter. Battle copters got nerfed vs them so it’s suicide to take them on unless they’ve already been heavily damaged
Bomber and seaplane hurting cruiser are fine because bomber are more expensive and seaplane are build from carrier which is more expensive and you still need money to build seaplane after. Cruiser getting a lose agaisnt a unit half cheaper (B copter) and that has better chance to strike first is ridiculous
@@Talif_MoorI wouldn’t say there’s no point, at least in the campaign, as there are maps where that might be the only anti-air you can get to enemy air units. Power wise, though…yeah. Good if you can get the first strike, but take one hit back and it’s useless.
Day's of ruin would be hard to rank, because of how different that system works. However Dual Strike is also more complicated because of the skill tree that was added. Still would be cool though. You could make some absolutely broken CO's with the right skills.
That prelude... damn. That was brilliant. Andy: Ah yes, the same guy that doesn't know what an airport is? He's pretty basic plus Hyper Upgrade makes it worth the buff. Max: Pretty much brute force. Too bad for his indirect units though. They kind of suck. Sami: Her Super CO Power is pretty much this: hippity-hoppity. Your bases are my priority! Nell: Lady Luck has always been her side and her Super CO Power shows. Hachi: Broken. Just broken. Olaf: Nothing fancy but his Super CO Power can really hit hard. Grit: Well shuck my corn, you're history. Once his CO or Super CO Power hits, you're fucked. Literally. Colin: Taking P2W and "Screw the rules, I got money" to an extreme. Literally. Fun fact: Colin (and Sasha from Dual Strike) are based off the last Tsar's heirs, Alexei and Anastasia Romanov. Kanbei: They make this guy even more OP in this game. Samurai Spirit = forget it. You just can't take him down. Seriously. Sonja: So her Super CO Power gives her units Vantage. Sounds about right. Sensei: Infantry, Mechs and Battle Copters. He only needs to secure lots of cities and then boom, mech raid. Eagle: He's still OP even with the fact his CO Power in AW1 is now his Super CO Power in AW2. The Lightning Drive would hardly ever be used. Drake: You thought his Tsunami was bad. Typhoon is worse. Jess: You aren't wrong with her. She did get better in Dual Strike but here, not as much. Flak: No wonder he's at the low tier. Jeez. Lash: The more stars she gets in terrain, the stronger she gets and her super CO Power makes her brutal. Adder: Average. Hawke: He is a strong Black Hole CO. Made no better by his CO & Super CO Power has a risk/reward method. Sturm: Busted. Busted. Busted. 'nuff said.
Hachi kind of represents how the Japanese saw the United States when the second half of the Pacific Theater of WWII rolled around. The Japanese had lost about half of their battleships and most of their Aircraft Carriers (and were struggling to build new ones to replace them. The third ship intended to become the sister ship of Yamato and Musashi had to be converted to a Support Carrier two-thirds of the way through her construction to make up for the loss of carriers, and she was one of the few capital ships they could produce due to shortages of metal and fuel oil on the resource-deficient Japanese Islands). Meanwhile the US was building dozens of Essex-class aircraft carriers and Iowa-class battleships and training hundreds of American carrier-based fighters and bombers, so that after the Battle of Leyte Gulf, US forces overwhelmingly outnumbered Japanese forces in addition to having "game-breaking" new technologies like proximity-fuse AAA shells (which hard countered kamikazi attacks) and radar-guided fire control systems on all surface ships (which nullified the Japanese fleet's advantage in training for night-battles and resulted in American Fletcher-class destroyers curb-stomping their Japanese counterparts).
And yet they still estimated the cost of a traditional invasion as a million casualties. Crazy how destructive full scale war is even when one side is utterly dominant in terms of infrastructure
@@willosborne3711 Well sadly none of that tech helped the boots on the ground. That's why the US was so reluctant to actually make landfall - it would have been a bloodbath (even more than it already was ofc)
The thing that makes Sami so strong is that her early game is ridiculous. She can get out to a massive eco lead. If you can withstand her early pressure, you can push her back with stronger units but dang, I hate the first 15-20 days
That's why her weakness is bigger maps. Moving mechs across them is very very difficult but someone like Sensei doesn't have that weakness and doesn't care 😂 On a smaller map do not fight a sami and expect to have a good time.
I like the idea of Eagle getting an extra turn but having his units stronger or weaker depending on which super you used... Wonder if there's going to be a dual strike reboot.
I always liked Grit the most. If you can survive long enough with Grit, you can get to a point where not even the likes of Kanbei/Sturm can stop you. You can just have a mass of well-placed artillery defended with infantry meat shields, and you absolutely decimate everything from a distance.
Or, if you don’t mind losing the technique points (in solo where that’s a thing), skip the infantry wall part-still build them, just have them focus on caps like normal-and just build a massive wall of rockets. Sure, you’ll probably lose one to an enemy tank…and then that tank will immediately get obliterated by its six or so friends. Just, uh…don’t do this in Advance Wars By Web. Trust me, I tried it once, you’re just asking to die if you do that.
Ranred units have a passive drawback. The takes 2 turn to get operational. One to position themselves and another one to fire. So he is kind of slower than the other co. Plus they don't counterattack with direct hits. You also need to surround them with units to protect them.
The trick with joining Sensei's Mechs for money is so good he even explains it to Adder in the campaign. The developers intended you to play him that way. I think what makes people overrate Hawke so much is the campaign missions where you go up against him give him a large pre-deployed force of expensive units, so he gets Black Storm a LOT more than he would in a normal game. In Campaign Hawke is just Black Storming you constantly and that feels very oppressive to go up against. It's only after you unlock him and try him out in War Room that you REALLY start to feel the 9 star cost, and that was intentionally his weakness if his in-game bio is any indication.
That actually explains it quite a bit. I noticed that “builds power slower” weakness but thought the game was simply cheating with how he could spam it in campaign, like how in FoW the enemy seems to see everything that isn’t in a forest.
Powers charge based on the funds value of damage given or taken, and it charges faster for the one taking damage. Hawke's campaign missions tend to give him a lot of pre-deployed Fighters and Bombers, and other expensive units, so he's getting his Powers fast. And in Great Sea Battle he gets free air and navel units from the factory every turn.
@@BigKlingy Also scales based on damage dealt vs recieved with more recieved from damage taken rather than dealt, so if you're dominating vs him he'll get to charge his power a lot more too (which is less of a thing outside campaign, where it's not mostly predeployed, so if you're steamrolling through units in the same way you've likely already got the match pretty much wrapped up)
Personally, now that these videos got me into Advance Wars, I actually LIKE that Hawke is just A rank. He absolutely backs up his aura of strength, but that strength isn’t as oppressive as Kanbei’s or Sturm’s. Great power, but deliberately not so much as to be overwhelming; a perfect fit for the kind of fair fights and tests of power that Hawke as a character is seeking in the campaigns. I honestly think that he’s got just the right amount of power to be a fun CO to both play as and fight; buffing him would just break that balance and make him another Sturm. And even putting Meteor Strike aside, Sturm f$&@ing sucks to fight. Hawke is way better specifically because he’s just that bit easier to contend with.
It would be pretty stupid to have 2 separate Multiplayer modes in the game since that needlessly divides the playerbase. One single MP mode based on AW 2 would be smarter. It makes sense to remain faithful as far as campaign is concerned though since changing CO powers in campaign would make some missions a lot more difficult/ easier than intended.
Yea, if the game's as broken as these videos are making me think, just making a new version of the COs is the best call. Take inspiration from AW1 as a priority, but if there's a specific issue then just fix the issue. Especially since in the modern era they can balance patch this nonsense to a certain extent.
Maybe they will do like in Advance Wars By Web - take all AW1 and 2 CO and just put them in BUT change Sturm to his VS version from Advance Wars 1 (while addint superpower from Advance Wars 2). Sure, it still makes him strong (-20% attack but +20% defense, also no terrain cost) but he is not TIER OH GOD HELP ME like Hachi or Kanbei.
You neglected to mention that Sami also gets +1 movement on her transports, so she's not completely left in the dust on larger maps because even though her vehicles are weaker, she can develop her economy faster and can get to high value captures like bases, airports, and harbors before the enemy COs can. The reliability of her captures is particularly useful in this respect, since there generally aren't any units strong enough to interrupt her captures within the first few days.
I do hope you'll cover Dual Strike at some point. I know the Remake is only going to have these first two games but I'm really enjoying these Advance Wars videos and would love to see more from you. I always loved these games but I was never THAT good at them, and just seeing someone talk about all the strats and the COs makes me want to give the games another shot now that I'm not a stupid kid anymore.
One cool power I have had in my head for a original CO is something called "dig in" It stops your units from moving and attacking but gives you 75% defense. Of course you use it when your turn is about to end just like Lightning strike and it would be useful since your opponent can't push you back. So it's good to help you maintain advantage but it wouldn't be too overpowered since it won't help you get that advantage unlike Samurai Spirit.
I just want to say, that even though I have little to no interest in the meta (but I love AW obviously), you manage to make this very interesting to listen to. Very impressive sir.
When you were talking about Kanbei and his super power, I was real worried about defense because I thought “wait is defense a %bonus in this game or is it flat.” THEN you said it was a flat bonus and I screamed. Flat bonuses are scary.
(11:50) I feel I need to point out a slight correction here. The game rounds down the 1.5x capture rate multiplier for Sami's infantry, so one that has 3 HP left will only reduce the capture number by 4, not 5. Therefore, if Sami started capturing a property with a full HP infantry, dropping the capture number down to 5, then you need to reduce that infantry's HP to 3 or less in order to delay the capture by a day.
@@thepompf2049 My strat is to make a chunk of units and hold with those, then, don't spend a single dollar on units for a while and spam goldrush, when you managed to be the richest man alive, start building units nonstop and watch your enemy cry in fear.
Wow, this is definitely a significant improvement on the prior tier list! I had some concerns about the prior list but this is actually pretty on mark IMO. Also, you have the same favorite COs as I do! I love playing Adder, Olaf and Sonja as they are just so much more fun to play even if they aren't the best. You didn't mention it but being able to chain powers is actually something I would consider to be one of Adder's advantages as well since it can bring some strategic benefits with it. He's the fastest not only to getting his COP but also the fastest to setting up a 2 turn COP chain as well.
Black Wave/Black Storm aren't so great for pushing the attack, but they are nasty as counters to being pushed. The enemy pops their power, engages you. You get a ton of power charge, hit Black Storm, suddenly the tables are turned. Hawke wins games off of having the best fundamentals of any CO (Just plain better units of all types) and his power exists to act as a reversal card when other CO's push him with their powers and push the game back towards neutral, which is where he excels. He's pretty underwhelming seeming given his actual strength because "Just better at AW" isn't anywhere near as impactful feeling as the other A tier CO's, but he still earns the slot in A tier imo based on the fact that he really is "Just better at AW" with no strings attached. I kinda feel he's akin to stuff like SF4 Ryu, where he just doesn't feel good/bad matchups as strongly as other COs.
Kanbei can do a bootleg Victory March if: 1 He has a full HP infantry on the range of the enemy HQ 2 if he has Samurai Spirit. Of course he needs to clear the way, but if the above happens, you'll need a fixed damage like a silo or a SCOP of your on to even attempt to counter that.
Sentepeth Findos : Send more droids to the Jedi Knight. Their body's make a pile so high e won't be able to cross it! 17 year's ago i used Colin with a lot of infantry and no mater how many and my enemies where not able to cross my meatchield.😂
I'm not sure if you are already aware of this (probably since wargroove does the same thing I believe) but something worth mentioning in the lash segment it that terain defense actually scales with HP, so lash units with like half HP won't be able to take full advantage of the defense (they do still get the full Firepower tho) and I think it's something worth mentioning especially since you brought up Samurai Spirit which unlike terain Stars gives you permanent defense, which works with every HP amount because why not.
I've never played this series, but your videos have made me interested in picking up the remake when it comes out. Cheers man, thanks for all your great content on this stuff.
"They didn't design Hachi with multiplayer in mind." You're telling me. * 10% discount on all units with no power penalty? Check. * Puny CO Power meter? Check. * CO Power that lets you buy all units at half price for 3 stars? Check. * Super CO Power that does the same thing but also turns all your cities into ground bases and costs 5 stars? Check.
This was one of my favorite childhood games! Thank you for the tier list, that was incredible. I can't wait to try out Lash, Sensei, and Grit in the new game!
Note: i've read somewhere that Counterbreak, for some reason (Balance?) forgoes Sonja bonus on counterattacks,thats probably why 40:20 Andy's bomber wasn't shot out of the sky by a super vantage Sonja
25:55 Colin's real unit of choice is the neo-tank. It really is made for him as his reduced deployment cost benefits that expensive unit a lot and with how high it's firepower is the -10% doesn't really impact it.
My best guess is they put that bit about Sturm being "weak in snow" to trick clueless players into picking Olaf in the campaign and screwing themselves over with Winter Fury. ;) Also, as a Hawke main: I'd say you definitely put him where he should be--strong, but not overpowered. Good stuff. (Now, if we were judging COs based on their themes... Jess would be instant S-tier. Just sayin'.)
Fekkin' amazing intro. Love it. I picked up my ol' Black Hole Rising cart again recently just to derp around as my favorite. Sturm, of course. I also literally just watched your old tier list for AW2 yesterday. Will be neat to see if any opinions have changed over the what, 6 years? lol After view: A couple changes to tiers, Flak got his own place! lol I use Sturm in both AW1 and AW2 and honestly it is more for the aesthetic and I love robots/cyborgs. I play some Jugger in Dual Strike for this reason even though he is also pretty weak. The terrain movement is also great, it encourages more Rockets and such. It even helps on some water maps, as shoals/reefs slow down normal ships.
Nice video, I enjoyed the dual strike game but never played the first 2. If you ever plan to do the dual strike one I'd say prep well, not only do the CO's have powers you can also team them into twos. This allows when both meters are full for both to trigger their super power and get a turn (so you basically get two turns) but there are also synergies depending on which CO you put together.
thanks a lot man, I loved these tier list videos because I used to play this game as a child, and is so funny to see not only how wrong I was about the CO's, but also how bad I really were, like never using the small power or getting lots of units that are weak for my CO, never actually played this as a competitive game and all this info makes me want to play again, but gud this time
The reason Kanbei is buffed to 130/130 *in AW2 only* is because Sturm already has 120/120 stats day to day. If Kanbei was kept at 120/120 he would be considered a cheap Sturm ripoff.
I always wonder why Sturms units get stronger when the meteor falls. Do they get inspired/terrified by the display of strength? Do they worship meteors? Honestly the image of some Infantry in the mountains screeching and dancing like Tusken Raiders as hell breaks loose in the background really amuses me.
As a Sami main. I think there's a case for her only being high C. As you mention, she's incredibly powerful on small maps, or maps that have very good mid ground base establishments where she can essentially make an artificial map border. While the threat of Victory March always looms, Sami tends to get absolutely laid out if any sort of stalemate brews, and you can't get any sneaky captures off to upset the enemy's economy. She's weak to AA-guns in a very general sense, her tanks just don't deal meaningful damage to them, or to indirect units. On a larger map with no good foreward base establishment, what tends to happen is Sami rushes out, aggressively takes properties, and then has those unsupported infantry wiped out by tanks or AA guns as the slow train of mechs move towards the front, and her APCs begin conveying a handful at a time to the front. Sami has an awkward point in her playstyle in the midgame, where you want to really secure a foothold and lock in your presence somewhere, that she can be knee capped in by the fairly feeble front line she presents, and her relatively sluggish ability to move up to support that front line. If she DOES secure that support, often if there's a good, 2-or-more base area in the middle of the map where she can stick Mechs onto APCs or T-copters to slingshot them into the fight, then she does tend to grind through a stalemate by making a few tiles of progress every time her super goes off, but there's a shakey period where she can be pretty easily knocked off balance for the rest of the game. It could just be something I'm doing wrong, to be fair, but I don't tend to encounter the problem with most other COs.
She has the best transports in the game, +1 movement meaning no matter the size of the map unless its predeployed shes going to reach the center of the map first esp if its big where the most contested cities and factories are. She lost that in dual strike but since this is aw2 she has the best capture game in the game regardless of map and many times you can win just by having 1-2 more cities as in turn limit will give sami the win cause she has more. And also theres a better chance of sami reaching her super if theres more funds on both side. The only co that comes close is sensei, he has +1 move transports. can use super or reg and combine units to get frontline infintry then cap without the enemy being able to do anything. But sensei doesnt have the +50% capture rate as sami.
There was one single moment, where Eagles Lightning Drive in AW2 really helped me and that was in the mission to destroy the green earth factory where I had a single injured bomber without any support in range of the factory weakpoint and Lightning Drive boosted it just enough to be able to destroy the weakpoint :D
29:50 I think the reason developers increased Kanbei's boost to 30% was to make him stronger than Sturm (who had 20% boost already). If they kept it at 20%, then Kanbei would be crushed by Sturm. Sturm would basically just be Kanbei but without the extra cost, and with quicker-moving units.
Personally, I always thought Olaf should get a baseline defense buff (20%?), possibly doubled in the snow. And rain gives a -20% defense. Basically, make him the CO who specializes in stalling you.
🕑 Timestamps:
0:00 Prelude
1:37 Intro
2:54 Andy
5:53 Max
9:51 Sami
12:37 Nell
15:31 Hachi
17:49 Olaf
22:09 Grit
24:27 Colin
29:16 Kanbei
36:47 Sonja
41:56 Sensei
44:50 Eagle
48:57 Drake
54:56 Jess
1:00:06 Flak
1:03:31 Lash
1:07:30 Adder
1:09:51 Hawke
1:13:14 Sturm
1:17:53 Complete Tier List
Pog
Hahaha 🙂
@@thattimestampguy damn dude, he came prepared
I would like to see a theory about Sturm in the future. Do you think there will be more information in the remakes about the origins?
My Tier List is the same: against Top Level Co´s like Kanbei and Sturm with an experienced Level player there is nothing than can stop them even if the battle is unfavorably for most of the time. In my experience, The S-Rank Tier and A-Rank Tier in combination with a great playstyle and knowing their strenghts/weakness they will come out as winner in 99% of the time.
Have you read Fanfiction about Advance Wars?
Hardest substances on Earth
4. Aerogel
3. Diamond
2. Graphene
1. Whatever Kanbei's tanks are made out of
He made them out of Nokias.
Kanbei tanks are made out of Gameboys Nd Gamecubes
He made them out of Atari ET game cartridges.
i always picked kanbei lol. But also cause he looked cool/i like yellow
Nokia 3310
"But, statistically you will not see a lot of lightning strikes."
In other words, lightning doesn't strike twice.
Underrated comment. 😂
*in the same place but yeah... Igetit
Unless you live in British Columbia. Then you get 100,000 lightning strikes in a day.
@@HighLanderPonyYT Exactly, the same place, as in the same map.
@@krumplesthe2nd Eagle confirmed S-Tier in British Colombia.
For me, Jess is S rank for making me think the tank shell she was carrying was a giant pencil
wait that was a tank shell
....bruh
I'm so glad I was not the only one.
i used to think its a pencil too
what? it is not a pencil??
We called her the pencil lady
Leaving my comment now on how godamn genius and hilarious the opening skit is... Amazing editing lmaoo
That initial animation was pretty fun.
Lmao, the killed off Flak haha
It would have been funnier if Max was the one to interrogate Sturm because he got nerfed the hardest out of anyone -- Andy actually received a buff when Sturm "changed the meta."
Seriously, that was amazing. 10/10 intro.
Random quick question: who is your personal favorite CO?
"Against Opponents with OCD, Drake is an S Tier CO"
CAN CONFIRM, SCREW THAT FLASHING FUEL ICON
I feel that HAAAAAAAAAAARD
I really hate drake for that. thank god that you only fights against you once in dual strike
Ironically, for me, it is the loss of health that annoys me more than the mere fuel icon. It's why Hawke is still at least an A-Tier CO in my book.
He pretty much breaks the capture game for his opponent on large maps by taking away 1 HP from all infantry, which instantly increases the amount of time you need to capture with lone infantry units by 1.5 times (at least until the infantry heals after capture).
I pretty much always use Andy whenever I have to go up against Hawke, Olaf, or Drake, as his CO power is a direct counter to theirs.
@@GreyWolfLeaderTW Andy is good against Olaf or Drake but against Hawke you FEEL that additional firepower he has
it may be small but it still hurts
just realize something since you mention sonja's health hidden ability nullified by turning on battle animations...
imagine the remake, if they're that detailed, they apply a static filter over sonja's unit screen in battle animations too to hide the unit's health.....
I doubt they will do that....but damn if they do.... it would show the attention and care they are committed into this remake...
Should be pretty easy to do just in terms of the interface, but kind of pointless if you can still count the number of tank/men/planes/ships left in the unit; one for every two points of health.
In the case of units represented by a single vehicle, such as bombers and battleshi,,s you'd need to count the number of times they fire.
In the case of APCs and landers, there would be no way of telling at all.
@@amanofnoreputation2164 just make an overlay over sonja's units in the animations so it doesn't show the damage at all kind of like "LIVE FEED JAMMED" or something
@@rrenkrieg7988 This is such a great idea.
@@amanofnoreputation2164
you got me wrong, what I mean is complete static cover(like white noise to simulate visuals been jammed) over sonja's side of the animation frame. you just don't see anything on her side if u turn on animations
@@amanofnoreputation2164 Just shut her side completely in animations.
"It's MY sleepover, I get to choose the MOVIE"
Me and the bois on the Discord call:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
“What do you-“
*looks at video length*
“OH MY GOODNESS”
Me picking bedtime show with wifey
That was a great lecture, thanks
Legend has it that Andy survived that crash... His super was ready and he fixed the plane
If only he know what an airport was. Maybe he could have landed it.
He pulled a Megaman X6 and repaired himself lmao.
"Time for a tune up!"
So weak to snow in Sturm's case is like Superman's "Weakness" to magic. He just has no resistances to it, it affects him the same as any other normal person.
Snow to Sturm is Gharnef is to Starlight. Sturm's weakness is Fimbulvetr
People say that. But if something bypasses your superpower (Invulnerability), it should be considered a weakness. Like how muramasa is considered Wolverine's weakness yet it affects him the same as everyone else, because it negates his healing factor.
@@gabrielcastejon7914 Yeah, makes sense. No matter if someone's invulnerable, or invisible, or he can fly or breathe under water, or whatever else, anything that negates the ability and transforms the person into basically just some regular strong dude would definitely be a weakness.
It’s like a vampires “weakness” to a stake in the heart
At first I was like "that footage looks sorta familiar". Feels super weird to see some of my old crappy footage used 11 years later for an analysis video. Either way, hype for the remake LESGO!
yo i recognize ya!
Its fatguy703 guys.
Was just watching your playthrough of advance wars
Paper mario and now advanced wars, bringing all our childhood nostalgia back to life.
I still think your "Power of Money" clip should've been used.
Something to bear in mind is that COs can move up and down tiers based entirely on map design, Sonja with or without FoW is the obvious example, but another slightly more obscure example is that all of the COs that deal global damage(Hawke, Olaf, Drake) are better on larger maps and worse on smaller maps. Unless a CO is entirely luck based, the map can and will play a huge part in how good a CO is.
Also the infantry specialists like Sami, and to a lesser extent Sensei, don't like huge maps that require high mobility. Grit also suffers a bit on maps that are very open and mobility dependent.
Def true, and i think mangs mentioned that as well. Sonja is weaker outta fog of war but generally plays more defensively due to improved counter strikes which are as strong as aw1 Max. Good Sonja ppl will not attack as much and keep many low hp units around to annoy you. Sami is worse if the map is large though her improved transports help her ferry the infantry more but again mech spam is less effective if they have to travel a long way forcing sami to use more transports and artillery having to move longer distances she might have to build tanks to interupt your caps at that pt.
Max also might be harder to face if theres barely any forests, no chokepoints, and large making infintry cos harder to use and giving max easier time harrasing you if he has lotsa roads to bring recons around with. Balanced maps usually have chokepoints.
And ya drake goes up if its a islands map with no airport and so many cities you can fund a navy. Again most maps will not be like this so this is rare esp since ships are so expensive.
I mean a map that has 0 ports but 4 airports will be pretty bad for Drake.
@@colossaldonut5190 Interestingly drake's global damage makes him decent on any map that isn't too air heavy. Even then his anti air isn't weaker so he's not that crippled vs air enemies.
@@TheEmperorGulcasa but at that point isn't he just strictly inferior to Olaf? Unless the fuel drain is really that big of a deal.
So fighting against Olaf is basically like going to war against Russia.
"Finish before winter or perish"
on a russian map(a very big map with not a lot of road or building) Olaf would be so strong
Didnt Germany suffer this fate in WW2?
Aged like milk
@@MantaRaydiated and Napolean and Sweden
I mean Sturm's weakness to snow I guess is based off Nazi Germany's failed campaign into Russia because of the winter weather conditions.
"Being average is bad because most CO's are good."
That's called being sub-average, Mangs.
I think the word he was looking for was “nominal”-implying that a commander with no bonuses, but no weaknesses whose units do “exactly what they say on the tin.” You, are right that average is always average by definition, but since the average CO bonuses are better than the average weakness, a nominal powerless CO would be significantly worse than the actual average.
@@IONATVS Probably vanilla is the most accurate term. In stats, normal is a specific type of term just like average. If we are being anal enough to say not use average to mean bland or vanilla, then I guess we can be consistently anal and not use normal ;)
@@josephzeigler6853 I said "nominal" not "normal". You are correct that "normal" has a specific statistical meaning, but NOMINAL literally means "as it is named" and is used in technical engineering circles to say "exactly as specified in the original standard or document or blueprint that defined it" as opposed to merely within the acceptable margin of error (within tolerances) or completely out-of spec. Basically used to discuss what something is supposed to look like on paper so you can compare it to the often quite different reality.
In gaming, if something is Balanced , its non viable.
I think if you have some really low outliers you can have a majority be above average.
That fact about olaf and stalemates leading into winter makes olaf win is funny considering blue moon is like russia.
And the fact about Sturm's (an space hitler) weakness being the snow make that even funnier
@@mycrazylife6 YES
Better defeat Russia quickly, otherwise the cold sets in and your troops freeze to death
@@mycrazylife6 green earth always reminded me of Germany due to it being basically good at everything land, sea, and air combat.
@@edgelord8337 drake is based of a british dude (sir francis drake) though and britannia does rule the sea. Guess green earth is just europe
Changes from the previous tier list:
Promotions:
D-Tier to C-Tier: Max, Olaf, Drake
D-Tier to B-Tier: Eagle
C-Tier to B-Tier: Andy, Hawke
B-Tier to A-Tier: Grit, Sensei
Demotions:
A-Tier to B-Tier: Nell
D-Tier to E-Tier (which didn't exist in the previous list): Flak
Unchanged:
D-Tier: Adder, Jess
C-Tier: N/A
B-Tier: Sami, Sonja, Lash
A-Tier: Colin, Kanbei
S-Tier: Hachi, Sturm
Why doesn't he just look at the awbw tier list? That's been the consensus in competitive play for years and it's very different from this one.
@@blahmaster6k because awbw has all the Commanders and all the unit across the advance wars series, so that makes it pretty different from aw2
@@MrMikpik except for the addition of the dual strike units and COs, all the COs that were in aw2 function exactly as they did in aw2 with the exception of Sturm. Since you can evaluate COs in a vacuum, I'm going to say you can use the awbw tier list as an authoritative list for aw2 as well.
@@blahmaster6k yeah I get what your saying, but the fact that there are more units and more Commanders changes the meta a bit, this one sticks only to aw2
Wasn't Max S-tier in the previous tier list?
47:16 “Taking a double turn in AW is broken as all hell”
*Dual strike players sweating in the corner*
Sami: "It'd be a shame if one of my infantry could close the gap to the HQ..."
Sami+Eagle: We are 4 parallel universes ahead of you.
@@ilyasbasuki3207 but it takes a decade to charge the tag co
@@Tydorstus Even that doesn't negate the brokenness.
I always found the double turn in DS to be the best and most exciting feature about DS. I care less about using both CO power on the same turn. Honestly I'd rather play with no CO powers or day to day bonuses at all but you get to charge up a double turn.
MANGS BE FEEDING THE ADVANCE WARS FANS BROO.
Dudes giving us a feature length film maaaan.
this is why i stuck around all these years
Me too i love mangs
Wish certain people could put the past behind them, get their heads out of their asses and forgive the controversial thing Mangs did. The dude is literally the only notable Advance Wars content creator on here in my book.
@@squallleonhart9387 i feel the same about it too but i fail to see how this comment brought that up lol
@@squallleonhart9387 and he didnt even do anything wrong other than act cringy around a girl. im a believer that internet should be at least 13+ to get rid of these fucking idiots on twitter etc etc
The design philosophy behind Jess seems to have been that because her specialty encompasses so many units, ones that can potentially fill the roles of the air and (pffff) naval units it doesn't cover, they had to debuff her good to keep her from being overpower, overestimating the effect of quality over quantity.
In reality, every advance wars game follows a predictable pattern of development:
Early game infantry to develop the economy in and serve as fodder --> mid game light units for utility and mobility --> end game expensive heavy units for maximum stopping power to overwhelm choke points and either create a decisive opening or big enough value trades to erode the enemy capacity to produce units.
Similar to Chess, the game can end at any stage of development; "end game" is just a reflection of what happens after skirmishes for outlying properties have settled and battle lines have formed.
If any of these stages are hindered, it has a compound effect across time going into future stages. Jess is almost indistinguishable from Hawke in terms of her ground vehicles and has way better powers to support them, but she can't get to that point on sure footing because she has no alternative to using infantry to build up her forces.
The only way to supplement this would be to play on maps where all the units are pre-deployed or the capture game is done away with in advance -- but where's the fun in that?
Sonja has the opposite problem in that her early and midgame are strong, but her offensive capabilities are too weak to push her advantage. Sami has one of the best early games, but her midgame suffers because the only units that can circumvent her weaknesses are expensive air support, and they might not even be available. Sami mechs hit hard and cost dirt but don't have the necessary mobility to keep her early momentum going.
Sensei has the same game plan as Sami, but can take it to the finish line because of his all-purpose -flying death buzzers- battle copters.
Eagle could be said to specialize in the end game since his CO powers take a long time to develop but are powerful enough to swing the match once a strong force has been built up.
Bad end games lead to stagnation. Bad midgames can be recovered from. But a bad early game makes everything an uphill struggle.
A CO needs some serious strength to compensate for even the tiniest shortfall in infantry power, such as Grit in AW 1, or Colin in ADW2.
Colin is a good CO period because even though he has weaker infantry, he can afford more of them, purchase mobile units like recons and battle copters to support them earlier, and needs fewer cities to support his economy.
His end game doesn't suffer either because even though the power of his units is handicapped, he can still make good trades to wear the enemy down.
Really good analysis. Give this person a job, Nintendo/Intelligent Systems! :)
This seems right on the nose. Having to take the L on every early game battle by default is just debilitating. You can do things to make up for it, but the fact that you need to do that makes any counterplay even more effective because if you’re already likely playing suboptimally (either taking on more risk or preserving resources by taking free early properties) then any additional damage you incur compounds as the game progresses. Unless the CO has a really stellar way to come out into the midgame and take back what you either lost or missed out on, you just have a weaker CO.
Good analysis. One thing I will say though is that with Sami, using her COP and SCOP, and deploying indirects to support her infantry units can overcome infantry units lack of mobility
Colin's endgame is without equal though. Gold Rush is a relative increase so the more funds you have the better it becomes. During the end game if you ever let him pocket some cash he will spin out of control. After all the more money he has the more he will get. He pretty much doesn't have a powercap.
So not only does he have a favorable trade in value but he can then also capitalize on that with gold rush. Also his lower deployment cost means being slightly behind in capture isn't as catastrophic for him as it is for other CO's.
Finally his power of money means that even if you have a very strong wall build up he can gain the strongest firepower in the game and just blast through it.
O,7😊😅
Basically sturm, hachi, kanbei and colin are the best characters.
Honestly if the map is small enough then grit can become one of the best two.
And if you are playing in a map un which all the units you can have are given at the start Kanbei is god
@@Jet-Steam-Gray Not realy Hachi i better if he reaches i super power. Remeber he can build on cities then and you will have at least 2 or three there
Colin best character?
lemme insert the overused joke everyone uses
P2W Colin
@@Jet-Steam-Gray Eh, as someone else said Hachi can still build on super power, and I'd add that Sturm is basically *_slightly_* weaker Kanbei but with a meteor strike and a massive mobility buff letting him still win the game usually by retreating where you can't follow, out-maneuvering the enemy and marching through unexpected areas. If there's any decent amount of forests, mountains, or really anything with above 1 movement cost, and much more so in fog of war maps, I would say Sturm still dominates Kanbei. Never underestimate how powerful movement is.
Fog of War also makes Grit good, but he plays second-fiddle to Sonja there.
i need dual strike for switch damn it :D that game was my entire childhood
Days of Ruin gang
Did not expect to see you here.
When are you going to make a new video?
@@jammo7370 ty I was trying to remember the name of my favorite advance wars game and will have to replay it once I find it
Nice to see a RUclipsr I watch watching another RUclipsr I watch
He may be kind of bad, but Olaf is S-tier in my heart.
He's my lovable goofball.
I'd just watch him and Grit banter back and forth all day and night while it's snowing
Kent is s tier in hhm in my heart too
He has Santa Claus outfit by default in my heart.
I only just discovered your channel and, heck, that Bane edit had me in tears. Good stuff!
Wow, I never realized that combining two units with more than 10 HP total refunds you the leftover HP as cash.
Thanks for mentioning it in the Sensei section. This knowledge will come to good use for sure!
Sensei himself teaches you this in his campaign chapter, which is cool since his CO powers are designed to take advantage of this.
@@miwestraveler3986 No, Sensei tries to teach Adder, but the enemy is too much of a narcissist to listen
@@theschnozzler
Yeah, but in doing so, he teaches the player out-universe.
If I was designing the game I'd have made it you get 30% of the funds back to discourage merging for funds, but I want the remake to be fully faithful so I'd be disappointed if they copied my suggestion.
@@alex_zetsu why would you want to discourage that?
I played black hole rising on my older cousins old game boy advance and I really liked using black hole COs. Especially sturm because he reminded me of darth Vader and kid me was obsessed with Darth Vader
I mean, I think everyone who liked even a little bit Star Wars was obsesed with Darth Vader in some point of his life
So seems legit
Darth Snifit RISES!!!
But yeah Sturm is a really neat design and the best mix of comedically villainous and genuinely terrifying in terms of intimidation
"You can't enter a prolonged battle with Olaf because he will just whittle you down with snow" sounds like every historical invasion of Russia so far
Except gangs kan
I'm halfway into the video, on Kenbei, and I'm loving it so far. The funny analogies, the production value, the level of experience you have really shows as well. Great to see these videos, I hope you're having as much fun making them as we are watching.
Just like Hyper Repair, Hyper Upgrade also increases defense by 10% too. It probably matters a lot more in Hyper Upgrade than in Hyper Repair.
Edit: I just learned all CO Powers increase defense by 10%. Derp.
I feel like an interesting conversation is: where would Drake - or just sea units in general - be if we had access to Days of Ruin sea units? I really liked Days of Ruin units because it seemed to make sea units actually viable without requiring you to pour a ridiculous amount of cash into them.
Grit with DoR battleships sounds terrifying. like holy hell.
I don't know if Drake would be much better as Naval combat is more about countering units than mirror matches where def actually comes into play. like the only mirror matches you'll ever really see are Cruisers v Cruisers because cruisers annihilate subs and subs destroy battleships/gunboats/landers.
for what is worth though Drake's fuel draining CO power would be really good against Sea Planes, and air units in general which at least from my experience tend to run out of fuel a lot faster in DoR.
@@CosmicToad5000 My original thoughts was that the DoR sea units were way cheaper than they were in AW 2, but it wasn't as much as I remember, save for being able to spam gunboats.
One thing that really stands out to me between sea units in AW2 and DoR is that you actually get a hard counter against air units in DoR via Cruisers. I think they were supposed to be a counter in AW2 (They had an AA gun, after all), but they were destroyed so easily, even by battle copters, that there was no point in building them for that purpose.
Tbf, even in DoR, as long as Bombers and Seaplanes get the first strike on Cruisers they can get crippled, though they’ll take a bunch of damage from the counter.
Battle copters got nerfed vs them so it’s suicide to take them on unless they’ve already been heavily damaged
Bomber and seaplane hurting cruiser are fine because bomber are more expensive and seaplane are build from carrier which is more expensive and you still need money to build seaplane after. Cruiser getting a lose agaisnt a unit half cheaper (B copter) and that has better chance to strike first is ridiculous
@@Talif_MoorI wouldn’t say there’s no point, at least in the campaign, as there are maps where that might be the only anti-air you can get to enemy air units. Power wise, though…yeah. Good if you can get the first strike, but take one hit back and it’s useless.
Tier list for the other Advance Wars would be fun, even if they aren't relevant to the remake.
Day's of ruin would be hard to rank, because of how different that system works. However Dual Strike is also more complicated because of the skill tree that was added. Still would be cool though. You could make some absolutely broken CO's with the right skills.
super famicom wars be like
Mr Yammamoto Tier: Mr Yammamoto
S: Caroline and Billy Gates
F: Everyone else LOL
They would have to tier them as solo with no skill trees.
I can't wait to see how Sturm looks in the new art-style.
That prelude... damn. That was brilliant.
Andy: Ah yes, the same guy that doesn't know what an airport is? He's pretty basic plus Hyper Upgrade makes it worth the buff.
Max: Pretty much brute force. Too bad for his indirect units though. They kind of suck.
Sami: Her Super CO Power is pretty much this: hippity-hoppity. Your bases are my priority!
Nell: Lady Luck has always been her side and her Super CO Power shows.
Hachi: Broken. Just broken.
Olaf: Nothing fancy but his Super CO Power can really hit hard.
Grit: Well shuck my corn, you're history. Once his CO or Super CO Power hits, you're fucked. Literally.
Colin: Taking P2W and "Screw the rules, I got money" to an extreme. Literally. Fun fact: Colin (and Sasha from Dual Strike) are based off the last Tsar's heirs, Alexei and Anastasia Romanov.
Kanbei: They make this guy even more OP in this game. Samurai Spirit = forget it. You just can't take him down. Seriously.
Sonja: So her Super CO Power gives her units Vantage. Sounds about right.
Sensei: Infantry, Mechs and Battle Copters. He only needs to secure lots of cities and then boom, mech raid.
Eagle: He's still OP even with the fact his CO Power in AW1 is now his Super CO Power in AW2. The Lightning Drive would hardly ever be used.
Drake: You thought his Tsunami was bad. Typhoon is worse.
Jess: You aren't wrong with her. She did get better in Dual Strike but here, not as much.
Flak: No wonder he's at the low tier. Jeez.
Lash: The more stars she gets in terrain, the stronger she gets and her super CO Power makes her brutal.
Adder: Average.
Hawke: He is a strong Black Hole CO. Made no better by his CO & Super CO Power has a risk/reward method.
Sturm: Busted. Busted. Busted. 'nuff said.
Hachi kind of represents how the Japanese saw the United States when the second half of the Pacific Theater of WWII rolled around. The Japanese had lost about half of their battleships and most of their Aircraft Carriers (and were struggling to build new ones to replace them. The third ship intended to become the sister ship of Yamato and Musashi had to be converted to a Support Carrier two-thirds of the way through her construction to make up for the loss of carriers, and she was one of the few capital ships they could produce due to shortages of metal and fuel oil on the resource-deficient Japanese Islands).
Meanwhile the US was building dozens of Essex-class aircraft carriers and Iowa-class battleships and training hundreds of American carrier-based fighters and bombers, so that after the Battle of Leyte Gulf, US forces overwhelmingly outnumbered Japanese forces in addition to having "game-breaking" new technologies like proximity-fuse AAA shells (which hard countered kamikazi attacks) and radar-guided fire control systems on all surface ships (which nullified the Japanese fleet's advantage in training for night-battles and resulted in American Fletcher-class destroyers curb-stomping their Japanese counterparts).
And yet they still estimated the cost of a traditional invasion as a million casualties. Crazy how destructive full scale war is even when one side is utterly dominant in terms of infrastructure
@@willosborne3711 Well sadly none of that tech helped the boots on the ground. That's why the US was so reluctant to actually make landfall - it would have been a bloodbath (even more than it already was ofc)
The thing that makes Sami so strong is that her early game is ridiculous. She can get out to a massive eco lead. If you can withstand her early pressure, you can push her back with stronger units but dang, I hate the first 15-20 days
That's why her weakness is bigger maps. Moving mechs across them is very very difficult but someone like Sensei doesn't have that weakness and doesn't care 😂 On a smaller map do not fight a sami and expect to have a good time.
I like the idea of Eagle getting an extra turn but having his units stronger or weaker depending on which super you used... Wonder if there's going to be a dual strike reboot.
Now THATS an S-Tier prelude. Major props to the editor!
I always liked Grit the most. If you can survive long enough with Grit, you can get to a point where not even the likes of Kanbei/Sturm can stop you. You can just have a mass of well-placed artillery defended with infantry meat shields, and you absolutely decimate everything from a distance.
Or, if you don’t mind losing the technique points (in solo where that’s a thing), skip the infantry wall part-still build them, just have them focus on caps like normal-and just build a massive wall of rockets. Sure, you’ll probably lose one to an enemy tank…and then that tank will immediately get obliterated by its six or so friends.
Just, uh…don’t do this in Advance Wars By Web. Trust me, I tried it once, you’re just asking to die if you do that.
Ranred units have a passive drawback. The takes 2 turn to get operational. One to position themselves and another one to fire. So he is kind of slower than the other co.
Plus they don't counterattack with direct hits.
You also need to surround them with units to protect them.
The trick with joining Sensei's Mechs for money is so good he even explains it to Adder in the campaign. The developers intended you to play him that way.
I think what makes people overrate Hawke so much is the campaign missions where you go up against him give him a large pre-deployed force of expensive units, so he gets Black Storm a LOT more than he would in a normal game. In Campaign Hawke is just Black Storming you constantly and that feels very oppressive to go up against. It's only after you unlock him and try him out in War Room that you REALLY start to feel the 9 star cost, and that was intentionally his weakness if his in-game bio is any indication.
That actually explains it quite a bit. I noticed that “builds power slower” weakness but thought the game was simply cheating with how he could spam it in campaign, like how in FoW the enemy seems to see everything that isn’t in a forest.
Powers charge based on the funds value of damage given or taken, and it charges faster for the one taking damage. Hawke's campaign missions tend to give him a lot of pre-deployed Fighters and Bombers, and other expensive units, so he's getting his Powers fast. And in Great Sea Battle he gets free air and navel units from the factory every turn.
@@BigKlingy Also scales based on damage dealt vs recieved with more recieved from damage taken rather than dealt, so if you're dominating vs him he'll get to charge his power a lot more too (which is less of a thing outside campaign, where it's not mostly predeployed, so if you're steamrolling through units in the same way you've likely already got the match pretty much wrapped up)
I can see that because moving 30 mechs can get anoying and having 15 plus money is way better
Personally, now that these videos got me into Advance Wars, I actually LIKE that Hawke is just A rank. He absolutely backs up his aura of strength, but that strength isn’t as oppressive as Kanbei’s or Sturm’s. Great power, but deliberately not so much as to be overwhelming; a perfect fit for the kind of fair fights and tests of power that Hawke as a character is seeking in the campaigns.
I honestly think that he’s got just the right amount of power to be a fun CO to both play as and fight; buffing him would just break that balance and make him another Sturm. And even putting Meteor Strike aside, Sturm f$&@ing sucks to fight. Hawke is way better specifically because he’s just that bit easier to contend with.
It would be pretty stupid to have 2 separate Multiplayer modes in the game since that needlessly divides the playerbase.
One single MP mode based on AW 2 would be smarter.
It makes sense to remain faithful as far as campaign is concerned though since changing CO powers in campaign would make some missions a lot more difficult/ easier than intended.
Agreed
Yea, if the game's as broken as these videos are making me think, just making a new version of the COs is the best call. Take inspiration from AW1 as a priority, but if there's a specific issue then just fix the issue. Especially since in the modern era they can balance patch this nonsense to a certain extent.
Maybe they will do like in Advance Wars By Web - take all AW1 and 2 CO and just put them in BUT change Sturm to his VS version from Advance Wars 1 (while addint superpower from Advance Wars 2). Sure, it still makes him strong (-20% attack but +20% defense, also no terrain cost) but he is not TIER OH GOD HELP ME like Hachi or Kanbei.
Flack isn't E rank!
He's clearly F Rank For Flack
FlakE for E xD
But in one of the Advance Wars hacks, Flak is actually buffed being the only commander that can use indirect bombers.
@@stevengu1253 incoming Andy's Adventure Reboot xD
@@stevengu1253
Battleships in lakes intensifies.
@@stevengu1253 Nah,that's kalf
You neglected to mention that Sami also gets +1 movement on her transports, so she's not completely left in the dust on larger maps because even though her vehicles are weaker, she can develop her economy faster and can get to high value captures like bases, airports, and harbors before the enemy COs can.
The reliability of her captures is particularly useful in this respect, since there generally aren't any units strong enough to interrupt her captures within the first few days.
It still really hasn't sunk in that we're getting an Advance Wars reboot. I'm so hype
I do hope you'll cover Dual Strike at some point. I know the Remake is only going to have these first two games but I'm really enjoying these Advance Wars videos and would love to see more from you. I always loved these games but I was never THAT good at them, and just seeing someone talk about all the strats and the COs makes me want to give the games another shot now that I'm not a stupid kid anymore.
This channel has been around for a while. He made that 5 years ago.. ruclips.net/video/m64BWEMLwAE/видео.html
One cool power I have had in my head for a original CO is something called "dig in"
It stops your units from moving and attacking but gives you 75% defense. Of course you use it when your turn is about to end just like Lightning strike and it would be useful since your opponent can't push you back. So it's good to help you maintain advantage but it wouldn't be too overpowered since it won't help you get that advantage unlike Samurai Spirit.
I kinda forgot how many CO's this game had until I was that this video was an hour long.
Also sick intro my man.
In the time it takes for Eagle to charge lighting strike, Colin will be scrooge mcducking in piles of cash
LOL
It's nine to two
1.5^4
2.25
3.325
4.8825xgold
@@kfirnachum4928 You can't count it like this, because "glowing units" do not charge Your meter when they fight...
@@piotrtoborek2442 oh
Then it's the 3rd val assuming Colin is before eagle
That was great. Thanks for the time invested in both playing to inform your decision and make the video as well 😊
When playing as Drake, Eagle, or Jess: *I'M A GREEN UNIT!*
Or playing as Flak as the 3rd player.
Dude that Thanos Analogy with Olaf broke me.
Flak is the perfect tutorial CO to go against, they didn't wanted to make him so strong.
I just want to say, that even though I have little to no interest in the meta (but I love AW obviously), you manage to make this very interesting to listen to. Very impressive sir.
When you were talking about Kanbei and his super power, I was real worried about defense because I thought “wait is defense a %bonus in this game or is it flat.” THEN you said it was a flat bonus and I screamed.
Flat bonuses are scary.
(11:50) I feel I need to point out a slight correction here. The game rounds down the 1.5x capture rate multiplier for Sami's infantry, so one that has 3 HP left will only reduce the capture number by 4, not 5. Therefore, if Sami started capturing a property with a full HP infantry, dropping the capture number down to 5, then you need to reduce that infantry's HP to 3 or less in order to delay the capture by a day.
Goldrush is what us math experts call "exponential growth". And exponential growth is scary.
You just need to use it like 3 times and you will have more money than jeff bezos
Not really exponential since youll probably spend the money you get after a use sadly
@@thepompf2049 My strat is to make a chunk of units and hold with those, then, don't spend a single dollar on units for a while and spam goldrush, when you managed to be the richest man alive, start building units nonstop and watch your enemy cry in fear.
@@enzoponce1881 jeff bezos indeed
@@enzoponce1881 10,000 units are on their way with 300,000 more to be bought
Sonja's Superpower: Turn into Han Solo and shoot first.
she just use vantage+
Wow, this is definitely a significant improvement on the prior tier list! I had some concerns about the prior list but this is actually pretty on mark IMO. Also, you have the same favorite COs as I do! I love playing Adder, Olaf and Sonja as they are just so much more fun to play even if they aren't the best.
You didn't mention it but being able to chain powers is actually something I would consider to be one of Adder's advantages as well since it can bring some strategic benefits with it. He's the fastest not only to getting his COP but also the fastest to setting up a 2 turn COP chain as well.
Black Wave/Black Storm aren't so great for pushing the attack, but they are nasty as counters to being pushed. The enemy pops their power, engages you. You get a ton of power charge, hit Black Storm, suddenly the tables are turned. Hawke wins games off of having the best fundamentals of any CO (Just plain better units of all types) and his power exists to act as a reversal card when other CO's push him with their powers and push the game back towards neutral, which is where he excels.
He's pretty underwhelming seeming given his actual strength because "Just better at AW" isn't anywhere near as impactful feeling as the other A tier CO's, but he still earns the slot in A tier imo based on the fact that he really is "Just better at AW" with no strings attached. I kinda feel he's akin to stuff like SF4 Ryu, where he just doesn't feel good/bad matchups as strongly as other COs.
Kanbei can do a bootleg Victory March if:
1 He has a full HP infantry on the range of the enemy HQ
2 if he has Samurai Spirit.
Of course he needs to clear the way, but if the above happens, you'll need a fixed damage like a silo or a SCOP of your on to even attempt to counter that.
Meteor: Ooh money
Sturm: NO NO NO SMASH THE INFANTR--
Sturm has lost the game.
Ok, that intro was great, very fitting
Don't care if Colin is OP. I like my insecure rich kid.
Sentepeth Findos : Send more droids to the Jedi Knight. Their body's make a pile so high e won't be able to cross it!
17 year's ago i used Colin with a lot of infantry and no mater how many and my enemies where not able to cross my meatchield.😂
@@raychii7361 Ditto. I almost couldn't lose with Colin.
colin shapiro is known to destroy his foes with facts and logic
@@BoosterDuck9 The Perfect CIS officer
I always liked Grit and Flak Colin was my third favorite
Sonja in this game is literally the enbodiment of "Come on, hit me!"
Waylon Vibes
You wouldn't hit a girl with glasses, would you? Because she's inevitably going to hit back, **HARD**
@@kirbyis4ever
*Hits a girl with her glasses*
I'm not sure if you are already aware of this (probably since wargroove does the same thing I believe) but something worth mentioning in the lash segment it that terain defense actually scales with HP, so lash units with like half HP won't be able to take full advantage of the defense (they do still get the full Firepower tho) and I think it's something worth mentioning especially since you brought up Samurai Spirit which unlike terain Stars gives you permanent defense, which works with every HP amount because why not.
Andy still don't know what a airport is ... can someone teach andy about it...
Perhaps eagle can.
I can see Andy not passing on his Elementary school years.
@@prayingkabutops1392 *proceeds to start a battle with 8 planes*
@@el_mr6439 Rivals AC intensifies.
I've never played this series, but your videos have made me interested in picking up the remake when it comes out. Cheers man, thanks for all your great content on this stuff.
52:00 "most of your ground units, on the grounds"
The floor is made out of floor
Ahh, Hatchi. In Dual strike, I used to like using his power to deploy piperunners on cities as massive stationary artillery, fun times
As someone who loves TDKR and Advance Wars, the opening had me laughing my ass off. 10/10 liked and subscribed.
Could you please do more like the intro? I laughed so hard.
I am loving Advance Wars and I am currently replaying the old games!
Mangs talking for 1 hour at the sound of advance wars? Christmas came early 😍
Hannako you like Fire Emblem or Advance wars more?
@@Paraglare Fire Emblem. But because I can play Advance wars with my friends much more easily, I appreciate the AW franchise a lot as well.
@@HanakkoLove can mangs beat rivals?
@@soulhoney1227 nope
@@HanakkoLove good hopes ey?
"They didn't design Hachi with multiplayer in mind."
You're telling me.
* 10% discount on all units with no power penalty? Check.
* Puny CO Power meter? Check.
* CO Power that lets you buy all units at half price for 3 stars? Check.
* Super CO Power that does the same thing but also turns all your cities into ground bases and costs 5 stars? Check.
This was one of my favorite childhood games! Thank you for the tier list, that was incredible. I can't wait to try out Lash, Sensei, and Grit in the new game!
Note: i've read somewhere that Counterbreak, for some reason (Balance?) forgoes Sonja bonus on counterattacks,thats probably why 40:20 Andy's bomber wasn't shot out of the sky by a super vantage Sonja
25:55
Colin's real unit of choice is the neo-tank. It really is made for him as his reduced deployment cost benefits that expensive unit a lot and with how high it's firepower is the -10% doesn't really impact it.
My best guess is they put that bit about Sturm being "weak in snow" to trick clueless players into picking Olaf in the campaign and screwing themselves over with Winter Fury. ;)
Also, as a Hawke main: I'd say you definitely put him where he should be--strong, but not overpowered. Good stuff.
(Now, if we were judging COs based on their themes... Jess would be instant S-tier. Just sayin'.)
@29:20 "Emperor of the Missing Sock". WOW that's an obscure meme. Hats off to you sir, thank you for the giggle.
Lmao the stock image of the buff guy when Sturms turn came made me laugh too hard. He really is overpowered as hell
I’m glad this game has a nice fan base , I remember playing this game back in 2003 as a 12 year old on my gba sp
It speaks volumes when giving Flak indirect bombers and stronger anti-airs merely elevates him to _competent._
Great vid remake. Would love to see a vid series on CO matchups
Maybe it's just me, but Drake looks more like a bus driver than a ship captain
Fekkin' amazing intro. Love it.
I picked up my ol' Black Hole Rising cart again recently just to derp around as my favorite. Sturm, of course.
I also literally just watched your old tier list for AW2 yesterday. Will be neat to see if any opinions have changed over the what, 6 years? lol
After view: A couple changes to tiers, Flak got his own place! lol
I use Sturm in both AW1 and AW2 and honestly it is more for the aesthetic and I love robots/cyborgs. I play some Jugger in Dual Strike for this reason even though he is also pretty weak. The terrain movement is also great, it encourages more Rockets and such. It even helps on some water maps, as shoals/reefs slow down normal ships.
Drink game: Take a shot every time when mangs says “one of the most powerful/broken power/super”. Nice list btw, like your content
I absolutely LOVED that intro. Fighting Sturm is always a nightmare
I actually love that Sturm voice.
Nice video, I enjoyed the dual strike game but never played the first 2.
If you ever plan to do the dual strike one I'd say prep well, not only do the CO's have powers you can also team them into twos. This allows when both meters are full for both to trigger their super power and get a turn (so you basically get two turns) but there are also synergies depending on which CO you put together.
0:47 even added the machinge gun sfx XD
thanks a lot man, I loved these tier list videos because I used to play this game as a child, and is so funny to see not only how wrong I was about the CO's, but also how bad I really were, like never using the small power or getting lots of units that are weak for my CO, never actually played this as a competitive game and all this info makes me want to play again, but gud this time
44:20 Yes it is :u especially when you're already dominating the battle and you decide to create reinforcements, event if you didn't need them.
Please you gotta make this list for Dual strike!! I just found your channel and thanks to your tips now I’m beating the game. Great work :D
I love how he basically says that Olaf SNOWBALLS
Love the longer videos, thanks as always
The reason Kanbei is buffed to 130/130 *in AW2 only* is because Sturm already has 120/120 stats day to day.
If Kanbei was kept at 120/120 he would be considered a cheap Sturm ripoff.
And that would be fine, since Sturm was never supposed to be taken seriously as a CO anyway, more like a final boss.
Hey mangs, amazing video! Id love to see a nube tips/ strat guides for new players when it december comes around
I always wonder why Sturms units get stronger when the meteor falls. Do they get inspired/terrified by the display of strength? Do they worship meteors?
Honestly the image of some Infantry in the mountains screeching and dancing like Tusken Raiders as hell breaks loose in the background really amuses me.
I love how quickly the advance wars music made that scene from batman seem like it was from power rangers
As a Sami main.
I think there's a case for her only being high C.
As you mention, she's incredibly powerful on small maps, or maps that have very good mid ground base establishments where she can essentially make an artificial map border.
While the threat of Victory March always looms, Sami tends to get absolutely laid out if any sort of stalemate brews, and you can't get any sneaky captures off to upset the enemy's economy.
She's weak to AA-guns in a very general sense, her tanks just don't deal meaningful damage to them, or to indirect units. On a larger map with no good foreward base establishment, what tends to happen is Sami rushes out, aggressively takes properties, and then has those unsupported infantry wiped out by tanks or AA guns as the slow train of mechs move towards the front, and her APCs begin conveying a handful at a time to the front. Sami has an awkward point in her playstyle in the midgame, where you want to really secure a foothold and lock in your presence somewhere, that she can be knee capped in by the fairly feeble front line she presents, and her relatively sluggish ability to move up to support that front line. If she DOES secure that support, often if there's a good, 2-or-more base area in the middle of the map where she can stick Mechs onto APCs or T-copters to slingshot them into the fight, then she does tend to grind through a stalemate by making a few tiles of progress every time her super goes off, but there's a shakey period where she can be pretty easily knocked off balance for the rest of the game.
It could just be something I'm doing wrong, to be fair, but I don't tend to encounter the problem with most other COs.
She has the best transports in the game, +1 movement meaning no matter the size of the map unless its predeployed shes going to reach the center of the map first esp if its big where the most contested cities and factories are. She lost that in dual strike but since this is aw2 she has the best capture game in the game regardless of map and many times you can win just by having 1-2 more cities as in turn limit will give sami the win cause she has more.
And also theres a better chance of sami reaching her super if theres more funds on both side. The only co that comes close is sensei, he has +1 move transports. can use super or reg and combine units to get frontline infintry then cap without the enemy being able to do anything. But sensei doesnt have the +50% capture rate as sami.
There was one single moment, where Eagles Lightning Drive in AW2 really helped me and that was in the mission to destroy the green earth factory where I had a single injured bomber without any support in range of the factory weakpoint and Lightning Drive boosted it just enough to be able to destroy the weakpoint :D
Would be cool to see a new Dual Strike tier list to go along with these even if it's not included in the remake
29:50 I think the reason developers increased Kanbei's boost to 30% was to make him stronger than Sturm (who had 20% boost already). If they kept it at 20%, then Kanbei would be crushed by Sturm. Sturm would basically just be Kanbei but without the extra cost, and with quicker-moving units.
Personally, I always thought Olaf should get a baseline defense buff (20%?), possibly doubled in the snow. And rain gives a -20% defense. Basically, make him the CO who specializes in stalling you.