Playing against a grimm player is the equivalent to you opponent talking through an Xbox live mic. You can never fully understand their actions but it's always entertaining watching as a bystander.
One of the advantages that people often neglect when looking at Grimm is his ability to avoid needing Medium+ tanks. Grimm's normal tanks and battle copters can punch up when boosted by his COP meaning that he has an almost totally unique buy order. The fact that Grimm doesn't have to spend huge spikes of money to keep Mediums and Neos rolling to the front means he can often play from an economic disadvantage while retaining an effective army composition. It also means Grimm players can often sink cash into Rocket Artillery once they get ahead, cash most other COs need to spend on Mediums and Neos.
I don't think that a rocket artillery is the correct conclusion here. Grimm has an extremely tough time holding any position, and a rocket does about the same damage as an artillery, but with higher range and worse movement. But being able to punch up with tanks and copters is a good point. Looks like Grimm can just flood tanks and copters endlessly. His weak infantry is not a big loss if you produce a few less and he doesn't need to buy higher tech units as much, leaving more money for tanks.
@lagg1e Also helps his Infantry can still sometimes soften the opponent's units in order for the Tanks to roll in and finish the job. Since even if the Infantry aren't insanely damaging a 30% damage boost is still a big, and 1-2 extra points of damage can make a difference.
There is a bit of a flaw with this argument. Without his power, his tanks can't one shot enemy tanks. Being able to one shot normal tanks is a very important threshold. So while his tanks can often do what most other CO's medium tanks do (as long as Grimm get the first strike if he doesn't then...) it is missing the ability to take out one key unit. While his medium tanks do wallbreak tanks, they're also often too slow. His Neotanks are capable of not just one shoting tanks on roads but just about anything, but they share the artillery weakness.
1. His positioning is key and is the biggest part of this. Lesser players would crumble to one mistake, you're not allowed to mess up too much unless you have the lead already, making Grimm proverbial glass to use. 2. Cost management, both his meter and his money As fun as haymaker is, Chaining duster actually is brilliance, always keeping a 60%+ whatever towers you have boost to offense as much as you need. Cost management on money, this takes some predicting of where the enemy will go, which is another unique skill that normal players can't really do. He knows he'll lose units, the Grimm brain has to make peace with that, but he makes sure you lose FAR MORE cost than he did. If he isn't predicting, its more forcing the enemy into positions of his attacks, and the early tanks sharking in the water, to just punish anything that hits his capturing infantry. If the enemy sends a single infantry to ruin his caps, he'll swamp that with his own. If a tank or something interrupts the cap, a hit from just one of his tanks will send theirs straight to the morgue. He keeps his tanks in the back like ammo, and he fires the gun if a worthwhile target comes in his sightline. Almost like a venus flytrap. Anything not in these 2 categories, he seems to just trap to either send back or keep there until he produces something to deal with it. This ammo threatens smarter players, and smashes noobs. Terrifying. I've in summary learned for simplicity sake, you want to merely threaten your opponent with your firepower, as opposed to actually just running up and striking with it blindly. Vulgar display of power, I love this. More of these matches, Mangs. Keep em coming!
You see grimm's power bar in this match. Even after a few uses, it still goes flying up. I think I get it. He might be abusing the fact that grimm can benefit from both forms of bar generation. His units are easily killed and he can easily kill high value units. Meaning that with good play, his opponent is dealing with a 70% fire power army, constantly! The seemingly useless walls and surrounds might even be him baiting his opponent into giving him that bar. If so this man is a genius and a mad lad!
I had this thought as well. For how often Mangs has brought up the importance of the power meter, it wasn't addressed all that much here. Grimm's offense is so high that he doesn't really need his super power. His regular power is already good enough for whatever you're planning. So you get that more often and his regular power just requires a paltry 3 bars! Combine this with not bothering with higher tier units because your lower ones are already hitting as hard as them, and you have a lot of tanks hitting like medium tanks. If Grimm's opponent manages to hit back with a Medium Tank to wipe one, so what? There's 2 more tanks ready to take its place and gain back that value and more in a trade while the dead tank just helps build up the meter further. On paper, Grimm seems terrifying. How has he been overlooked for so long?
@@rishnix simply, he need good math/Checkmate brain,and a lot of practice. And naturally get a lot of practice on him is Hard, vs experience player he Easy lose, so it get a lot of matches/time to get Grimm experience on good opponents, easier to use him vs newbie and get fun now, then learn to contr-tactics vs good player.
@@rishnix simple, he is unorthodox. People try playing him like any other CO, and they fail without end. His lack of defense with the bonus of nearly always having 70% more attack means that he has to develop his own, radically different playstyle, and what Grimm Guy is doing right now, the very first pioneer of Grimm Theory
Yeah I think that losing his battlecopter at 24:40 was a premeditated move, it almost filled his bar for CO Power! He sacrificed a relatively strong unit, for a hefty bonus to everything else. And it was worth it!
The Transport Copters have some significant uses here, in that it protects the base from being capped, adds a blocking unit to the front, and to shoot it down drags out the AAs into a vulnerable position so when the Battle Copter comes in they're wounded and impotent. That said, it definitely maintains a bit of BM.
You're not necessarily wrong, but to be fair on the turn Mangs brings it up the AAs could have flipped which copter they attacked and been strictly better (and even kept the full health one unattackable by tank, I think!), along with allowing airport cap. If it was a stalling tactic, it wasn't actually all that inspired, so I'm inclined to think it really was mostly BM. 'Course, I'm nowhere near a GM, so what do I know? :P
@@HououinKyouma42 At the very least it's BM with utility! But yeah I barely play so I don't know a whole lot I'm just looking at what the benefits could be the moment it was put out and the map situation.
@@pubcle I think part of the "magic" of the T copters was the fact that they are transport copters, not exactly a unit that can deal damage, so there's always the chance your opponent will not take them seriously and instead go for another unit, like a B copter or an infantry, to try and clean your army away. It likely worked not in small part due to his opponent underestimating him, though, especially since with the exmachina, the battle copter and the medium tank would be unmoving for the next turn, those could have easily been ignored in favour of nailing shut that airport
@@pubcle Fair enough! And there's definitely at least some utility in what you saw (the first transport stops a base block without pulling the AA away from hitting infantry, for example). Even if it's mostly BM, better BM with utility than my MO of a move so devoid of utility that my opponent _thinks_ it's BM.
I did a review of this match when trying to understand how he became this successful. I'll type a detailed timestamp review later, but in a nutshell: 1. Very controlled aggression by Grimm. 2. Adequately punishing opponent overextensions because they think lowered defence makes him weak. Except you get whacked by Grimm's next turn retaliation fire and your ideas are pounded to dust as you then enter password to resign. Po1and lost this way vs Grimm Guy: You need to pressure him on multiple fronts. 3. While defence is often more valued than offence, grim's firepower boost is often enough to create possibilities that other COs can only dream of or get with powers. The only way you can fully exploit lowered defence is if you have some kind of movement boost. Unit overlap may not be enough to cut it vs Grimm, so positioning and stratrgic ideas are key.
@@wherewiiwentwrong There's plenty of COs that are tactically good against Grimm. Yes, movement COs overperform in the matchup (like if I knew I was playing against Grimm, one of my first choices would be Max) but it isn't that the others aren't tactically good. The Grimm player here outplayed his opponent by a significant margin. Grimm is a punchout that really favors the better player and severely punishes mistakes. Ignoring the movement COs, here's a few I think would be generally more well placed against Grimm than the others. Hawke. This plays into holding rough parity with Grimm in terms of d2d but with careful play, a black storm is pretty devastating. Grimm has controlled aggression but he's not going to just smash through if you're playing at a similar level. In this case, Vector was outplayed a good bit but almost stabilized after the ex machina. Black storm is in a similar camp but a bit better positioned against Grimm, I think. Sasha. It is a technical slugging match. Grimm has to time his powers carefully and Sasha will be positioned to drain him, leaving her to levy her income advantage. You still need to be careful but Sasha should do just fine, especially when you consider that Sasha can squeeze out some more tanks early game. Olaf. Reverse movement CO. Rachel. Grimm really is a patient technical bullying match. Grimm doesn't necessarily end up with a huge edge so much as he forces both players to play the game differently. If you understand how that works, then anything that gets you an edge over time like a direct damage CO will often do quite well against Grimm. In the case of Rachel, this is quite literally careful play with small engagements. Grimm ultimately does need to build a deathball to get full value and wants to have a really controlled pace till he decides to step on the gas but if he clumps up and steps on the gas, straight into covering fire he goes. You can't play sloppy with it but I'd say that Rachel has a tactical edge.
Sonja would also be a nasty match up for Grimm, she counterpunches extra hard and can remove any sort of defensive edge the Grimm player may be trying to eek out of terrain. Plus her ability to hide her unit's HP from the Grimm player would make her doubly nasty since the Grimm player is now much less sure about when and where he can strike unless he's paying very close attention.
Adder’s movement destroys Grimm in his own tier, but CO’s above his tier actually have problems with Grimm. He can actually challenge Kindle and Lash on properties. Grimm artillery is such a meme. You can bait so many units in with your reduced defense into artillery.
They hit like rockets if you can bait something into range. Especially in the fog people will leap to attack grimm’s units leaving themselves open to artillery. On knuckle duster or haymaker an artillery can kill basically any ground unit.
Grimm is one of the things that can prove a theory that has been in my head for several years as a former top player from another game that plays like famicom wars That said being attack > defense > speed > Attack beats defense because no matter how strong you can wall, you'll either get worn down or leave a weak point for the enemy to exploit Defense beats speed because regardless of how fast you can get in to somewhere or something, you won't last long when you can't even scratch the enemy's armor Speed beats attack because you can't deal the damage you wanted or needed to do when the enemy just makes you whiff your shots and poke at you constantly Since Grimm has a much better chance fighting against strong COs who wall better than COs who can move fast, it may tell us something about it
And this theory makes a lot of sense in Famicom wars. Top tier COs is one that has the most speed (Colin/Bachi) but still get heavily outmatched by High defenses and Firepower (Kanbei only losses mostly due to the lack of speed).
@@M30W3R I only recognize Elka Sir from UniWar forums, another AW clone you can play on the app store. Maybe that? Also if you're gonna play Uniwar beware of the crazy IAP. It was never like that until the owner passed the torch. 😩
I like to imagine that Grimm guy is not an alt and just some guy who came in the AWBW scene after lots of practice from somewhere else Kind of like Takumi Fujiwara in Initial D Damnit i got to the bit where Grimm admitted to being an alt and my dreams are ruined
Im going to laugh if its actually Voice of Akasha meming with grimm. But maybe not due to the fact we know Akasha has a perfect win rate and Grimmguy has lost TWO whole matches. If its akasha and he comes out and admits it those two people could technically say they beat the unbeatable.
The way he played the left side at 13:19 was really clever. Putting himself in threat range of that tank with pretty much every valuable unit he had was something I would never think to do as Grimm, but it was absolutely the best play and he controlled the left side for the entire rest of the match as a result. Reduced defense definitely matters, but it seems that putting yourself up in your opponent's face and relying on your opponent being afraid of your retaliation is the best strategy as Grimm. I wonder how his tier placement would change if his COP were 2 stars instead of 3. Being able to keep his power up (or at least having it regularly available as a threat) gave him a lot of control near the end of the match while still forcing him to play intelligently. I think that would be an interesting adjustment without throwing away his gimmick.
I remember playing an advanced wars rom where one of the characters was grim but with a 2 star regular power. It was really good since after your units get destroyed you can retaliate with a huge attack boost
Chaining the regular power every turn to stay on a permanent +70% firepower was pretty brutal. I wonder if trying to max the power bar then doing that is part of the usual strategy he uses?
I usually try to fill the bar as a kindle to always be ready to pop urban blight back to back 1 from the initial attack and the 2 if he dares to repair and tech up something expensive while i retreat and wait for my tech ups
@@Blue-mr7fe The Reason Pro players see Kindle as trash: Urban blight does Nothing if you know how to keep units off of properties and have Kindle's Day to day take advantage.
@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast yes and its map dependent which is why since he is off of a city the kindle has to build around it and makes for a more defensive playstyle which sorta sucks
I think there's a good chance that it's Voice of Akasha. VoA is good enough that it's likely they have several accounts, and has been around for a while to use multiple Grimm pseudonyms.
33:09 That's honestly something I never thought about and maybe a potential reason to rate grim a bit higher than other COs in his own tier. I'm not saying that the -def isn't a big deal, but having on demand super power like stopping force in the form of your regular power is arguably even better than his super because it's so cheap to push out - and you essentially can store up to two charges of it. It would be interesting to go into the battle calcs to see how many scenarios a knuckleduster will suffice and consequently how many require a haymaker to break through.
I do like playing as Grimm, especially on maps without comm towers. You can't wall as Grimm but equally you can't be walled against so the games never get stally.
Here are my thoughts on who Grimm Guy is: Po1and, JTQWN and Randomwayz are all having a game against him, so it shouldn't be any of them considering the GL rules. The guy his playstyle matches Starflash and Tordread, but Tordread has way to many games going on right now to start a Grimm alt. Starflash hasn't been active for a few weeks and even has been booted from all his league games. However, I doubt he would sack all of his games to start a Grimm alt, finishing them first would make more sense. Deejus, Go7 and atrueboss on the other hand are active, but they don't have a lot of games going on. All three of them are also content creators and would benefit from a video glorifying Grimm. Out of these three Go7 has the most matches going on, and he primarily streams instead of making a video, so I don't think it's him. Deejus and atrueboss on the other hand have very few games, they have a motive, and they seem like the person who would do something like this. So in conclusion, it's just Dsnoon trolling you. Nah just kidding of course, I think it's most likely atrueboss, and otherwise Deejus.
over at the AoE2 scene there has been a moderately well known string of tournaments over the years called the "hidden cup", the idea being, top players creating alts with ambigious names and both caster and audience being in the dark about their identity, with a 'face reveal' at the end of the finals. Just thought I'd bring it up.
The T-Copter makes actually sense. The AA could either target the B Copter or free the airport up, but not both. Keeps his production up, if the B Copter gets hit.
You definitely need to cast more of Grimm Guy's matches. Not only is he highly entertaining to watch, a lot of the small moves that he makes are very intelligent. Being able to use such a punishing character at the highest levels is a sign they've truly mastered the game.
I remember facing him back when i started AWBW 2-3 weeks ago, he was 9-1 then, i was playing kindle on "missed connections", i felt like i had no chance and that it wasn't even close, great player to learn from and cant wait to see more of him ^^ Great video as always Mangs :D
everybody think "hey grimm is so bad, how can he be CO". But in reality Grimm is the CO the most technical. Because With grimm you can take only engage and not receive this mean you must engage, engage and engage again. But to do that you need to plan your move at least 3 or 4 turn in advance to always have the best unit to respond to the enemy response (a tank for recon, mechs for tanks if possible, artillery for neotanks ...). so if you have this knowledge and this level to almost predict your opponent, Grimm can be a good T3 CO (or even t T2 almost equivalent to max on certain maps) .Else you will be rolled on each side and think grimms is the worst CO of the game. that's why this grimm player must be respected.
Well, this isn't Grimm vs. No CO, but this works too. I think the T Copter is a bit practical and not pure flex. It stops the infantry from blocking the airport without the AA getting involved, and since both it and a B copter will die to AA might as well take the cheaper unit.
This match is the literal *and* figurative equivalent of “Punching Up”. Excellent play from Grimm Guy, showing that Tiers Don’t always define a CO’s level of power. Skilled Play accounts for just as much of a CO’s success as how powerful the CO is.
Games reviewed initially before this video came out: 1. This game. 2. vs Po1and on Golden Probe Redux (The game with the message of "who are you?!" from Po1and. 3. vs mrboat on A Hope Forlorn. 4. vs lcg93 on Vadum of Valhalla Timestamp comments: 0:00 - 3:30 Few things: 1. Dope opener. 2. I was wondering if you were friends with this guy. Lo and behold, you are and you even have a game set up vs him. (As Adder, probably your best shot, but we'll see how it goes). 3. Meme-wise, you can see the message from Po1and above, that's how I know this guy is worth studying. 4. Ordinarily, T4 vs T1 would result in some bad outcomes, but we're assuming players of equal general skill here. CO methodology also plays a big role. And looking at this, I think VB does not have the strongest kit to deal with Grimm for reasons mentioned later. (At 5:10) 5:10 I got to the same conclusion as you did here. Except it's worse for VB because that 10% defence denies the critical 2HKO on cities for most COs, but not Grimm. And VB has nothing to compensate for this. That Grimm has this in his toolkit vs any CO not named Kanbei or Sturm or Javier 2T means that while Grimm does not want to be in a retaliation position vs the opponent, neither do you. This makes Grimm a high skill CO to use. Use him even averagely without accounting for his D2D and you will get stomped, but use it well, and Grimm can do things most people can only dream of or need powers to do so. 6:47 I won matches twice here without using Artillery. Controlling the bridges is one part of the play, but I don't find it to be the most essential until at least much later (at lower levels). There's isn't much to contest or push for there, especially when BCopters come in. So getting your Arty to go there can be tempo losing even with a plan. I did find centre control to be much more helpful, especially with the advanced airport cos any AA on the flank base can do a Celeste and reach it in 2 turns (only just, but it's bad enough) You could try to block 01,06 or 22,11 here, but often that means eating a hit from a unit in the forest. Not the best of ideas. Even if the plains occupant is VB. 8:50 Match starts here. 9:23 He only does this on this map. On other maps like A Hope Forlorn or even Vadum (where this is explainable), he does go for the base first. Looking at the next 5 turns, he uses the early income to go tank first and then either go recon as P1 or another tank as P2. As Grimm, because of your lowered defence, you would want your vehicles on the field ahead of time of your opponent or you will get tempo'd or zoned out harder than usual. 11:49 This puzzled me as well when I first saw it. It went on to not do much substantially. In fact, it's pretty much a passive signal seeing how in the next 5 turns, VB didn't do anything adventurous on that centre right area. 12:57 Interesting that this is an alt. It does explain the good play. 13:22 Good play from Grimm, typically the overextended infantry tends to be a punish target. This is a case where it is punished successfully, forcing VB into a difficult choice. (Tank attack is reasonable here, as is the infantry interrupt, but it will be tank trade central from there on, and neither trading benefits VB greatly, but it's much better than allowing Grimm to accumulate forces.) 16:10 With enough skill and planning, it does counter hard. 17:44 Not only just that, but MD tanks have 1 less move. Exactly the thing Grimm loves. (B Copters, even normal tanks on (S)COP. Think of it as Max without movement) 18:39 This is the turn where centre control matters so much. 20:30 That isn't really as free a shot as you might think. 21:10 explains why. That front switch is definitely a forced move, but it created more mistakes as well. 22:04 I say 50/50 for the VB player. It might work out only marginally for him if Grimm attacks. Better move for Grimm to just go centre and make that 1 B Copter deliver more value. 23:25 Not a fan of artillery here. Slightly behind on income and unit value. 25:28 Get ready to get used to this. He uses Knuckleduster a lot. 26:22 Even without the wallbreak the trade is good: Killing 1 tank and 1 MD tank and making 2 tanks useless vs 2 tank + 1 arty retaliation (The MD still lives, that's the key) is a trade I'd take even as Grimm. Also once again showing why centre control is so good on this map. 27:36 This is definitely a panicked series of moves. That AA not helping to protect the Arty amongst other issues. I can't imagine this fully working out in 5 days if Grimm went solid play here. Only hope is locking the airport. 28:09 Was VB saving money here? Double baseskip with MD only. (Hindsight: D16 Bomber + 1 infantry with another double base skip. I don't think this is going to work.) 28:53 For the people wanting some edgy jokes. 28:56 As others have pointed out, making a T Copter is actually a good move (but for the Ex-Machina). It beats keeping the airport vacant, it entices the AA to go for the centre B Copter, deflecting it from the airport, and it saves enough money (18k) such that VB can just go at least MD inf inf, or even tank tank recon. With only 2 unwounded inf 2 turns away from the airport, that T copter won't die unless the AA gets involved. It's a BM move that can be tactically explained. (Next fresh infantry is 3 - 4 turns away on that side) 29:55 Questionable moves by VB on the right flank. But then again, the options are so few that he had to do this and forgo a realistic airport cap prospect. Alright elsewhere, but then, Grimm still has the strong centre, and the right flank push is looking very overextended for VB. 31:10 Second T Copter 31:44 Got unlucky here, seeing that this is a 2HKO 64% of the time. Why not the full HP AA though... 32:34 Knuckleduster is what's needed more here. Grimm does not need the 90% when he needs more frequent reductions to his defence penalty, more so when his opponent's units are wounded. 33:14 Good play, punishing the double base skip via front shifting and then boxing in the bomber, forcing it to become passive at best. 34:17 Not quite. The moment the panic advance happened 3 turns ago and did not pull back, that was when the game is about lost. Grimm showed why here. (35:20 Too little too late here.) 35:35 B Copter can be freed, but VB would lose his MD tank. 37:15 He does not need to be reckless. The right flank is clean enough to steal income. Grimm's 38:11 Grimm's never really that suited for walling, it does look like baiting his opponent forward. 39:20 Yep, another overextension punishment (Po1and did a similar mistake except it is on the oppponent airport flank) . I wonder if the panic move at 27:36 was really a panic after that. 39:52 Match's over here.
Can you explain to me why Vector didnt 1shot the the Tcopter on the airport at around minute 33? Allowing Grimm to build the Bcopter is throwing the game
That MD tank trap was just the textbook example of thinking two steps ahead. He forced his opponent to take engagements on the road where it became a sitting duck for everything that was thrown at it. The battle copter too, you'd think Grimm would take any chance at attacking on even or advantageous engagements, instead he's putting his opponent's key units into a stranglehold that can't be escaped without exposing them to the finisher. I almost want to give this tactic a flashy name here, like "Strike second to strike first"
Fantastic match analysis Mangs! I'm glad you mentioned the base skip early on. While having 3 active bases is fantastic, there is something to be said for skipping capturing that location for a turn if it has the express goal of providing a positional advantage with an early tank. That slight tweak gave enough early-game advantage to gain complete control over the central properties for the entire game. Some of what we interpret as "disrespectful" is a bit like twisting the rules of engagement to take advantage of Grim's reliance on positional superiority; they are unusual choices, but really being a pro is knowing when it's worth breaking the rules. Sure, 2 transport copters is a massive loss of resources, but it also kept his airport open while the right flank attack had gradually lost impact and faltered. Which ultimately allowed him to turn up the screws with continuous battle copters in the late game. It truly is a masterclass of positioning while changing what we take for granted; Grim absolutely can't receive engagements, so Grimm Guy's patience and judgment on when to commit was incredible. Plus, those sarround's were legitimately beautiful.
Whoever it is, is probably decent at chess because Grimm seems like the type of character where either his units kill or get killed. So it's not a matter of "he can't wall" and it's more like "expect the wall to fall, but it has done its job anyway" Notice the units he uses that end up taking minor damage, he tries to heal them up to full so they can do full damage, but the ones that have taken significant damage (typically during his own attacking) he basically uses them as a wall. There is also one big advantage to a wall like this in that you don't have a bunch of almost dead units clogging up the positioning. They just die and are out of the way and then you can counter attack. Plus, this probably charges the super meter a bit faster compared to other COs. There's also another advantage on playing this way in that it seems to draw the opponent closer to your bases where they would be over extending and then getting crushed by the flanking and the faster reinforcing capabilities. I personally fully agree with capturing the city early on over the base in this case because having the initiative with the early tank sets up the situation where he has the initiative and positioning, allowing him to whittle away the opponent early game getting little victories that turned into big victories mid game with the numbers of hard hitting tanks. This is likely not the case on many other maps. The transport copter is very likely not a BM (or at least not fully a BM) and was likely just a stall tactic wanting to keep the airport safe and to tie up the opponent's units while the main force flanked and wiped out all of those troops. No reason to spend a extra money on combat choppers that would just get shot down anyway. It sure felt BM-y when he placed one right next to an anti-air gun though. What do you want to bet that this person has strategies to counter those COs that have bonus movement? Early neo tanks perhaps?
I don't think Deejus is Grimm Guy. He is primarily a Fog player and much better in Fog than in standard. Grimm Guy exclusively plays standard though and is beating top players despite the unfavorable matchup.
Honestly when you think about it. Does Grimm really need his Super power? His normal power gives a firepower boost as good if not better then most super powers in the game. Heck the firepower boost is the same as SAMURAI freaking SPIRIT. Being able to have that much firepower two turns back to back is terrifying. If you don't have a movement advantage I can imagine facing a Grim that has good positioning is pretty scary.
Grim its better now that com towers dont boost defense. before it was bad for grim against others, now that com towers boost powa it makes it better because 10% def on grim was not really a great help due to the fact that he was defense negative, and now that everyone has regular def his stando powa shines more. za warudo
Was wondering why vector sounded familiar. Just remembered I beat him in a league game like a year and a half ago as Sami. Haven't really played since, hes still going and doing pretty well.
Alright, here's my pre-watching theory for why Grimm Guy is winning: His -20% defense tricks enemy into playing agressively, destroying many units but exposing their positions AND allowing Grimm to use his power earlier. And when they least expect it, he activates the power and uses both the increased power and his enemy's exposed positions to destroy high priority targets. Now I'm gonna watch the video and see how far from the truth I am.
I actually think the T-Copter build was not entirely BM. Vector's Anti-air could have destroyed the B-Copter and the artillery would have done heavy damage to the Medium Tank. This means that as Von Bolt's CO Power comes in, Grimm Guy would have only infantry and a heavily damaged Medium Tank in the immediate area, and Von Bolt could have walled and maybe captured the Airport. The T Copter was the cheapest air unit that could hold the airport tile, and the only unit that can dislodge it is the Anti Air, which is now forced to choose between killing the more valuable B-Copter and dislodging the T-Copter to block and potentially capture the airport tile. I see it as more of a stalling move, basically paying 5000 to buy a turn and the option to build something on the airport next turn. If he had built a B-Copter instead, he would have had to either forgo one of his two tank builds that turn or base skip on one base. EDIT: Ok, the second T-Copter was more than a little BM.
Damn! What a cool match! Seeing someone take a CO that it´s several tiers lower and use it so masterfully is mesmerizing. Props to Vector too for persevering ultil things got... too Grimm! I think many players would be quite overwhelmed if a supposedly underpowered opponent turns out like this.
@15:37 It sounds like Grimm alts are the players who get sick of artillery/wall play and just want to run wild on the opponent. Same big-brain play but much more dynamic.
Plot twist: Grimm Guy is actually Mangs and he has made this channel exclusively to speak badly about Grimm and thus be able to climb the ranking knowing that he is OP.
That transports weren't disrespect, he was probably trying to divert an Ex Machina as well as mind gaming with Von Bolt's alzheimer, you just have to have a pretty high IQ to understand the thought process of a Grimmster player
10:25 => obviously he took the city for that early tank Also it's worth mentionning that he build tank on his weak side, then shift it to strong side when opponent respond with mech. This guys do knows what he's doing. BMing in mecanical games is rude, BMing in turn-based strategy games is FLEXING XD Hey, actually, the T-Copters allow him to defend the airport, so Von bolt has to use the AA to make room for infantry. he's "literally" buying time. Edit : Exactly, Von bolt did a big mistake at 32:07 ! Should have killed the T-copter and put a unit on that air port ! not blocking the air port led to the B-Copter at 33:30
Who do you think Grimm guy is?
Could he be Mangs, maxing out his Egg Power?
Is Grimm himself. (The Guy who made the design and programming) XD
I think probably Starflash, as he recently went on a break, and he is one of the most aggressive players in the game: perfect for an aggressive CO
I think this could be one of Starflash's attempts to completely change the meta
A black hole clone
Playing against a grimm player is the equivalent to you opponent talking through an Xbox live mic. You can never fully understand their actions but it's always entertaining watching as a bystander.
Nice pfp
MC Grimm "Let's get ready to rumble!", and Coach Grimm teach these players how to box.
Advance wars community:” You should build a lot of tanks and infantry.”
Grimm guy:” I stopped reading after tanks.”
Grimm guy:"walls? Where were going we dont need... walls."
I hope he starts every match by messaging the opponent:
"The outlook is Grimm"
Grimm tidings friend.
His enemies are always going to be subjected to a Grimm fate.
Brilliant joke
Add his allies in there too
As Grimm himself says: "Things are lookin' Grimm for you!"
"GG"
"You're saying GG before we even start?"
"Grimm Guy"
One of the advantages that people often neglect when looking at Grimm is his ability to avoid needing Medium+ tanks. Grimm's normal tanks and battle copters can punch up when boosted by his COP meaning that he has an almost totally unique buy order. The fact that Grimm doesn't have to spend huge spikes of money to keep Mediums and Neos rolling to the front means he can often play from an economic disadvantage while retaining an effective army composition. It also means Grimm players can often sink cash into Rocket Artillery once they get ahead, cash most other COs need to spend on Mediums and Neos.
What's funny is tanks can also be used more effectively against him by most COs.
@@pubcle hes a glass cannon it is what it is.
I don't think that a rocket artillery is the correct conclusion here. Grimm has an extremely tough time holding any position, and a rocket does about the same damage as an artillery, but with higher range and worse movement.
But being able to punch up with tanks and copters is a good point. Looks like Grimm can just flood tanks and copters endlessly. His weak infantry is not a big loss if you produce a few less and he doesn't need to buy higher tech units as much, leaving more money for tanks.
@lagg1e Also helps his Infantry can still sometimes soften the opponent's units in order for the Tanks to roll in and finish the job. Since even if the Infantry aren't insanely damaging a 30% damage boost is still a big, and 1-2 extra points of damage can make a difference.
There is a bit of a flaw with this argument. Without his power, his tanks can't one shot enemy tanks. Being able to one shot normal tanks is a very important threshold. So while his tanks can often do what most other CO's medium tanks do (as long as Grimm get the first strike if he doesn't then...) it is missing the ability to take out one key unit. While his medium tanks do wallbreak tanks, they're also often too slow. His Neotanks are capable of not just one shoting tanks on roads but just about anything, but they share the artillery weakness.
We got a Grimm Guy now we need a Flak Flanker
#freeFlak
If we had a Flak Guy, it would be Deejus 100%.
Flak is banned in global league...
What about a Jugger Jock?
@@ZorotheGallade Him too
"Yeah pretty sure its not rader elcaroman" damn right i wouldnt play that well even if i tried lmao
Ooo self burn those are rare.
LOL
1. His positioning is key and is the biggest part of this.
Lesser players would crumble to one mistake, you're not allowed to mess up too much unless you have the lead already, making Grimm proverbial glass to use.
2. Cost management, both his meter and his money
As fun as haymaker is, Chaining duster actually is brilliance, always keeping a 60%+ whatever towers you have boost to offense as much as you need.
Cost management on money, this takes some predicting of where the enemy will go, which is another unique skill that normal players can't really do. He knows he'll lose units, the Grimm brain has to make peace with that, but he makes sure you lose FAR MORE cost than he did. If he isn't predicting, its more forcing the enemy into positions of his attacks, and the early tanks sharking in the water, to just punish anything that hits his capturing infantry. If the enemy sends a single infantry to ruin his caps, he'll swamp that with his own. If a tank or something interrupts the cap, a hit from just one of his tanks will send theirs straight to the morgue.
He keeps his tanks in the back like ammo, and he fires the gun if a worthwhile target comes in his sightline. Almost like a venus flytrap. Anything not in these 2 categories, he seems to just trap to either send back or keep there until he produces something to deal with it. This ammo threatens smarter players, and smashes noobs. Terrifying.
I've in summary learned for simplicity sake, you want to merely threaten your opponent with your firepower, as opposed to actually just running up and striking with it blindly.
Vulgar display of power, I love this. More of these matches, Mangs. Keep em coming!
You see grimm's power bar in this match. Even after a few uses, it still goes flying up. I think I get it. He might be abusing the fact that grimm can benefit from both forms of bar generation. His units are easily killed and he can easily kill high value units. Meaning that with good play, his opponent is dealing with a 70% fire power army, constantly! The seemingly useless walls and surrounds might even be him baiting his opponent into giving him that bar. If so this man is a genius and a mad lad!
I had this thought as well. For how often Mangs has brought up the importance of the power meter, it wasn't addressed all that much here. Grimm's offense is so high that he doesn't really need his super power. His regular power is already good enough for whatever you're planning. So you get that more often and his regular power just requires a paltry 3 bars! Combine this with not bothering with higher tier units because your lower ones are already hitting as hard as them, and you have a lot of tanks hitting like medium tanks. If Grimm's opponent manages to hit back with a Medium Tank to wipe one, so what? There's 2 more tanks ready to take its place and gain back that value and more in a trade while the dead tank just helps build up the meter further. On paper, Grimm seems terrifying. How has he been overlooked for so long?
@@rishnix simply, he need good math/Checkmate brain,and a lot of practice.
And naturally get a lot of practice on him is Hard, vs experience player he Easy lose, so it get a lot of matches/time to get Grimm experience on good opponents,
easier to use him vs newbie and get fun now, then learn to contr-tactics vs good player.
@@rishnix simple, he is unorthodox. People try playing him like any other CO, and they fail without end. His lack of defense with the bonus of nearly always having 70% more attack means that he has to develop his own, radically different playstyle, and what Grimm Guy is doing right now, the very first pioneer of Grimm Theory
@@rishnix He was overlooked because he has bad matchups against anyone with a movement boost, which includes four bottom tier COs.
Yeah I think that losing his battlecopter at 24:40 was a premeditated move, it almost filled his bar for CO Power!
He sacrificed a relatively strong unit, for a hefty bonus to everything else. And it was worth it!
Spoilers: Grimmguy is Dangs.
Awwww I thought he was Wangs
I think it is the case. He even made shameless video covering himself as one of top 20 players, totally what Dangs would do.
I think his real nemesis would be the fully haired Bangs
The Transport Copters have some significant uses here, in that it protects the base from being capped, adds a blocking unit to the front, and to shoot it down drags out the AAs into a vulnerable position so when the Battle Copter comes in they're wounded and impotent. That said, it definitely maintains a bit of BM.
You're not necessarily wrong, but to be fair on the turn Mangs brings it up the AAs could have flipped which copter they attacked and been strictly better (and even kept the full health one unattackable by tank, I think!), along with allowing airport cap.
If it was a stalling tactic, it wasn't actually all that inspired, so I'm inclined to think it really was mostly BM.
'Course, I'm nowhere near a GM, so what do I know? :P
@@HououinKyouma42 At the very least it's BM with utility! But yeah I barely play so I don't know a whole lot I'm just looking at what the benefits could be the moment it was put out and the map situation.
@@pubcle I think part of the "magic" of the T copters was the fact that they are transport copters, not exactly a unit that can deal damage, so there's always the chance your opponent will not take them seriously and instead go for another unit, like a B copter or an infantry, to try and clean your army away.
It likely worked not in small part due to his opponent underestimating him, though, especially since with the exmachina, the battle copter and the medium tank would be unmoving for the next turn, those could have easily been ignored in favour of nailing shut that airport
@@pubcle Fair enough!
And there's definitely at least some utility in what you saw (the first transport stops a base block without pulling the AA away from hitting infantry, for example).
Even if it's mostly BM, better BM with utility than my MO of a move so devoid of utility that my opponent _thinks_ it's BM.
It's not BM if it works. BM would be building a pipe runner when you're far ahead.
I did a review of this match when trying to understand how he became this successful.
I'll type a detailed timestamp review later, but in a nutshell:
1. Very controlled aggression by Grimm.
2. Adequately punishing opponent overextensions because they think lowered defence makes him weak. Except you get whacked by Grimm's next turn retaliation fire and your ideas are pounded to dust as you then enter password to resign. Po1and lost this way vs Grimm Guy: You need to pressure him on multiple fronts.
3. While defence is often more valued than offence, grim's firepower boost is often enough to create possibilities that other COs can only dream of or get with powers. The only way you can fully exploit lowered defence is if you have some kind of movement boost. Unit overlap may not be enough to cut it vs Grimm, so positioning and stratrgic ideas are key.
So ironically enough, Adder is one of the few CO's tactically good against Grimm?
@@wherewiiwentwrong yes. adder is a huge reason why grimm is never chosen. and since adder is like the number one or two pick at t4......
@@wherewiiwentwrong There's plenty of COs that are tactically good against Grimm. Yes, movement COs overperform in the matchup (like if I knew I was playing against Grimm, one of my first choices would be Max) but it isn't that the others aren't tactically good. The Grimm player here outplayed his opponent by a significant margin. Grimm is a punchout that really favors the better player and severely punishes mistakes. Ignoring the movement COs, here's a few I think would be generally more well placed against Grimm than the others.
Hawke. This plays into holding rough parity with Grimm in terms of d2d but with careful play, a black storm is pretty devastating. Grimm has controlled aggression but he's not going to just smash through if you're playing at a similar level. In this case, Vector was outplayed a good bit but almost stabilized after the ex machina. Black storm is in a similar camp but a bit better positioned against Grimm, I think.
Sasha. It is a technical slugging match. Grimm has to time his powers carefully and Sasha will be positioned to drain him, leaving her to levy her income advantage. You still need to be careful but Sasha should do just fine, especially when you consider that Sasha can squeeze out some more tanks early game.
Olaf. Reverse movement CO.
Rachel. Grimm really is a patient technical bullying match. Grimm doesn't necessarily end up with a huge edge so much as he forces both players to play the game differently. If you understand how that works, then anything that gets you an edge over time like a direct damage CO will often do quite well against Grimm. In the case of Rachel, this is quite literally careful play with small engagements. Grimm ultimately does need to build a deathball to get full value and wants to have a really controlled pace till he decides to step on the gas but if he clumps up and steps on the gas, straight into covering fire he goes. You can't play sloppy with it but I'd say that Rachel has a tactical edge.
Sonja would also be a nasty match up for Grimm, she counterpunches extra hard and can remove any sort of defensive edge the Grimm player may be trying to eek out of terrain. Plus her ability to hide her unit's HP from the Grimm player would make her doubly nasty since the Grimm player is now much less sure about when and where he can strike unless he's paying very close attention.
"Fear not a man who uses a thousand moves, but fear a man who uses one move a thousand times."
Perfect quote for Grimm Guy
Adder’s movement destroys Grimm in his own tier, but CO’s above his tier actually have problems with Grimm. He can actually challenge Kindle and Lash on properties.
Grimm artillery is such a meme. You can bait so many units in with your reduced defense into artillery.
What meme?
They hit like rockets if you can bait something into range. Especially in the fog people will leap to attack grimm’s units leaving themselves open to artillery. On knuckle duster or haymaker an artillery can kill basically any ground unit.
@@yoloman3607 so grim artillery itself is a bait?
Grimm is one of the things that can prove a theory that has been in my head for several years as a former top player from another game that plays like famicom wars
That said being attack > defense > speed >
Attack beats defense because no matter how strong you can wall, you'll either get worn down or leave a weak point for the enemy to exploit
Defense beats speed because regardless of how fast you can get in to somewhere or something, you won't last long when you can't even scratch the enemy's armor
Speed beats attack because you can't deal the damage you wanted or needed to do when the enemy just makes you whiff your shots and poke at you constantly
Since Grimm has a much better chance fighting against strong COs who wall better than COs who can move fast, it may tell us something about it
>as a former top player from another game that plays like famicom wars
Which one is it?
Meanwhile the power of money is at the center of the triangle dynamic, reigning its supremacy over the lowly mortals
And this theory makes a lot of sense in Famicom wars. Top tier COs is one that has the most speed (Colin/Bachi) but still get heavily outmatched by High defenses and Firepower (Kanbei only losses mostly due to the lack of speed).
@@M30W3R I only recognize Elka Sir from UniWar forums, another AW clone you can play on the app store. Maybe that? Also if you're gonna play Uniwar beware of the crazy IAP. It was never like that until the owner passed the torch. 😩
yooo this guy's been a sensation for a lil while
glad you're covering his matches
Local thug brutally beats elderly wheelchair-bound man
I like to imagine that Grimm guy is not an alt and just some guy who came in the AWBW scene after lots of practice from somewhere else
Kind of like Takumi Fujiwara in Initial D
Damnit i got to the bit where Grimm admitted to being an alt and my dreams are ruined
That could just be a ruse so people will think it's a way better player then expected or he could be some other Grimm main their alt....
@@judobeer6720 ‘This is my Grimm alt. The other account is my Grimm main.’
His main could be low ranked. Dream isn't fully dead
The fact his name is not GRIMM REAPER is a god damned crying shame.
It's taken.
@@Mangs1337 FUGG
Im going to laugh if its actually Voice of Akasha meming with grimm. But maybe not due to the fact we know Akasha has a perfect win rate and Grimmguy has lost TWO whole matches. If its akasha and he comes out and admits it those two people could technically say they beat the unbeatable.
The way he played the left side at 13:19 was really clever. Putting himself in threat range of that tank with pretty much every valuable unit he had was something I would never think to do as Grimm, but it was absolutely the best play and he controlled the left side for the entire rest of the match as a result. Reduced defense definitely matters, but it seems that putting yourself up in your opponent's face and relying on your opponent being afraid of your retaliation is the best strategy as Grimm.
I wonder how his tier placement would change if his COP were 2 stars instead of 3. Being able to keep his power up (or at least having it regularly available as a threat) gave him a lot of control near the end of the match while still forcing him to play intelligently. I think that would be an interesting adjustment without throwing away his gimmick.
In my opinion he needs plus 1 move with powers even if it makes them more expensive or reduces the added firepower slightly.
I remember playing an advanced wars rom where one of the characters was grim but with a 2 star regular power. It was really good since after your units get destroyed you can retaliate with a huge attack boost
Chaining the regular power every turn to stay on a permanent +70% firepower was pretty brutal. I wonder if trying to max the power bar then doing that is part of the usual strategy he uses?
I usually try to fill the bar as a kindle to always be ready to pop urban blight back to back 1 from the initial attack and the 2 if he dares to repair and tech up something expensive while i retreat and wait for my tech ups
thats a good Sasha strategy to keep +10 to firepower and defense for an extended period in addition to denying it to the opponent
@@Blue-mr7fe The Reason Pro players see Kindle as trash: Urban blight does Nothing if you know how to keep units off of properties and have Kindle's Day to day take advantage.
@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast yes and its map dependent which is why since he is off of a city the kindle has to build around it and makes for a more defensive playstyle which sorta sucks
One of the greatest intros in Mangs history. I already knew Grimm's Theme was on the way and I broke into headbanging the second I heard it. Bravo.
Grimm player possibly soon in top 10 ? This world has gone mad. Mad respect for this madman if he manages to actually do this.
So, not only do we have Grimm Guy, there is also now a Grimm Girl on the Global League. Grimm Guy is ranked 24th, and Grimm Girl is 49th.
Wait a minute. Why haven’t we seen Dangs and Grimmguy in a room at the same time. 🤔
When you're weak against your colleagues but stronger than people who better than them
"How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?"
I think there's a good chance that it's Voice of Akasha. VoA is good enough that it's likely they have several accounts, and has been around for a while to use multiple Grimm pseudonyms.
33:09 That's honestly something I never thought about and maybe a potential reason to rate grim a bit higher than other COs in his own tier. I'm not saying that the -def isn't a big deal, but having on demand super power like stopping force in the form of your regular power is arguably even better than his super because it's so cheap to push out - and you essentially can store up to two charges of it. It would be interesting to go into the battle calcs to see how many scenarios a knuckleduster will suffice and consequently how many require a haymaker to break through.
I do like playing as Grimm, especially on maps without comm towers. You can't wall as Grimm but equally you can't be walled against so the games never get stally.
It would be very funny if this person's alt is higher rated than their main.
Mangs should cosplay Grimm one day
would be cool to do on stream, he just needs a pair of sunglasses and a marker to write an x on his head
We NEED the 3rd grandmasters tournament and we NEED Grimm Guy in it.
Here are my thoughts on who Grimm Guy is:
Po1and, JTQWN and Randomwayz are all having a game against him, so it shouldn't be any of them considering the GL rules.
The guy his playstyle matches Starflash and Tordread, but Tordread has way to many games going on right now to start a Grimm alt. Starflash hasn't been active for a few weeks and even has been booted from all his league games. However, I doubt he would sack all of his games to start a Grimm alt, finishing them first would make more sense.
Deejus, Go7 and atrueboss on the other hand are active, but they don't have a lot of games going on. All three of them are also content creators and would benefit from a video glorifying Grimm. Out of these three Go7 has the most matches going on, and he primarily streams instead of making a video, so I don't think it's him. Deejus and atrueboss on the other hand have very few games, they have a motive, and they seem like the person who would do something like this.
So in conclusion, it's just Dsnoon trolling you.
Nah just kidding of course, I think it's most likely atrueboss, and otherwise Deejus.
I was thinking Starflash the whole video and was surprised to see him not in the top 20. Bummer to see him go AWOL like that.
DSNOOON
Imagine if you had a game where GMs looked at a replay and had to figure out who the players were based on their tactics/moves.
over at the AoE2 scene there has been a moderately well known string of tournaments over the years called the "hidden cup", the idea being, top players creating alts with ambigious names and both caster and audience being in the dark about their identity, with a 'face reveal' at the end of the finals. Just thought I'd bring it up.
No joke... This was absolutely the best match I've seen in this channel. Incredible.
The T-Copter makes actually sense. The AA could either target the B Copter or free the airport up, but not both. Keeps his production up, if the B Copter gets hit.
You definitely need to cast more of Grimm Guy's matches. Not only is he highly entertaining to watch, a lot of the small moves that he makes are very intelligent. Being able to use such a punishing character at the highest levels is a sign they've truly mastered the game.
I remember facing him back when i started AWBW 2-3 weeks ago, he was 9-1 then, i was playing kindle on "missed connections", i felt like i had no chance and that it wasn't even close, great player to learn from and cant wait to see more of him ^^
Great video as always Mangs :D
He might be one of the inactive top players on the ladder instead imo.
everybody think "hey grimm is so bad, how can he be CO". But in reality Grimm is the CO the most technical. Because With grimm you can take only engage and not receive this mean you must engage, engage and engage again. But to do that you need to plan your move at least 3 or 4 turn in advance to always have the best unit to respond to the enemy response (a tank for recon, mechs for tanks if possible, artillery for neotanks ...). so if you have this knowledge and this level to almost predict your opponent, Grimm can be a good T3 CO (or even t T2 almost equivalent to max on certain maps) .Else you will be rolled on each side and think grimms is the worst CO of the game. that's why this grimm player must be respected.
Grimm t2 match-ups look pretty bad though..
Well, this isn't Grimm vs. No CO, but this works too.
I think the T Copter is a bit practical and not pure flex. It stops the infantry from blocking the airport without the AA getting involved, and since both it and a B copter will die to AA might as well take the cheaper unit.
Oh, Grimm still has the advantage over No CO.
This match is the literal *and* figurative equivalent of “Punching Up”.
Excellent play from Grimm Guy, showing that Tiers Don’t always define a CO’s level of power. Skilled Play accounts for just as much of a CO’s success as how powerful the CO is.
I didn't see anyone get punched so not sure about the literal part
Games reviewed initially before this video came out:
1. This game.
2. vs Po1and on Golden Probe Redux (The game with the message of "who are you?!" from Po1and.
3. vs mrboat on A Hope Forlorn.
4. vs lcg93 on Vadum of Valhalla
Timestamp comments:
0:00 - 3:30 Few things:
1. Dope opener.
2. I was wondering if you were friends with this guy. Lo and behold, you are and you even have a game set up vs him. (As Adder, probably your best shot, but we'll see how it goes).
3. Meme-wise, you can see the message from Po1and above, that's how I know this guy is worth studying.
4. Ordinarily, T4 vs T1 would result in some bad outcomes, but we're assuming players of equal general skill here. CO methodology also plays a big role. And looking at this, I think VB does not have the strongest kit to deal with Grimm for reasons mentioned later. (At 5:10)
5:10 I got to the same conclusion as you did here. Except it's worse for VB because that 10% defence denies the critical 2HKO on cities for most COs, but not Grimm. And VB has nothing to compensate for this.
That Grimm has this in his toolkit vs any CO not named Kanbei or Sturm or Javier 2T means that while Grimm does not want to be in a retaliation position vs the opponent, neither do you. This makes Grimm a high skill CO to use. Use him even averagely without accounting for his D2D and you will get stomped, but use it well, and Grimm can do things most people can only dream of or need powers to do so.
6:47 I won matches twice here without using Artillery. Controlling the bridges is one part of the play, but I don't find it to be the most essential until at least much later (at lower levels). There's isn't much to contest or push for there, especially when BCopters come in. So getting your Arty to go there can be tempo losing even with a plan. I did find centre control to be much more helpful, especially with the advanced airport cos any AA on the flank base can do a Celeste and reach it in 2 turns (only just, but it's bad enough) You could try to block 01,06 or 22,11 here, but often that means eating a hit from a unit in the forest. Not the best of ideas. Even if the plains occupant is VB.
8:50 Match starts here.
9:23 He only does this on this map. On other maps like A Hope Forlorn or even Vadum (where this is explainable), he does go for the base first. Looking at the next 5 turns, he uses the early income to go tank first and then either go recon as P1 or another tank as P2. As Grimm, because of your lowered defence, you would want your vehicles on the field ahead of time of your opponent or you will get tempo'd or zoned out harder than usual.
11:49 This puzzled me as well when I first saw it. It went on to not do much substantially. In fact, it's pretty much a passive signal seeing how in the next 5 turns, VB didn't do anything adventurous on that centre right area.
12:57 Interesting that this is an alt. It does explain the good play.
13:22 Good play from Grimm, typically the overextended infantry tends to be a punish target. This is a case where it is punished successfully, forcing VB into a difficult choice. (Tank attack is reasonable here, as is the infantry interrupt, but it will be tank trade central from there on, and neither trading benefits VB greatly, but it's much better than allowing Grimm to accumulate forces.)
16:10 With enough skill and planning, it does counter hard.
17:44 Not only just that, but MD tanks have 1 less move. Exactly the thing Grimm loves. (B Copters, even normal tanks on (S)COP. Think of it as Max without movement)
18:39 This is the turn where centre control matters so much.
20:30 That isn't really as free a shot as you might think. 21:10 explains why. That front switch is definitely a forced move, but it created more mistakes as well.
22:04 I say 50/50 for the VB player. It might work out only marginally for him if Grimm attacks. Better move for Grimm to just go centre and make that 1 B Copter deliver more value.
23:25 Not a fan of artillery here. Slightly behind on income and unit value.
25:28 Get ready to get used to this. He uses Knuckleduster a lot.
26:22 Even without the wallbreak the trade is good: Killing 1 tank and 1 MD tank and making 2 tanks useless vs 2 tank + 1 arty retaliation (The MD still lives, that's the key) is a trade I'd take even as Grimm. Also once again showing why centre control is so good on this map.
27:36 This is definitely a panicked series of moves. That AA not helping to protect the Arty amongst other issues. I can't imagine this fully working out in 5 days if Grimm went solid play here. Only hope is locking the airport.
28:09 Was VB saving money here? Double baseskip with MD only. (Hindsight: D16 Bomber + 1 infantry with another double base skip. I don't think this is going to work.)
28:53 For the people wanting some edgy jokes.
28:56 As others have pointed out, making a T Copter is actually a good move (but for the Ex-Machina). It beats keeping the airport vacant, it entices the AA to go for the centre B Copter, deflecting it from the airport, and it saves enough money (18k) such that VB can just go at least MD inf inf, or even tank tank recon. With only 2 unwounded inf 2 turns away from the airport, that T copter won't die unless the AA gets involved. It's a BM move that can be tactically explained. (Next fresh infantry is 3 - 4 turns away on that side)
29:55 Questionable moves by VB on the right flank. But then again, the options are so few that he had to do this and forgo a realistic airport cap prospect. Alright elsewhere, but then, Grimm still has the strong centre, and the right flank push is looking very overextended for VB.
31:10 Second T Copter
31:44 Got unlucky here, seeing that this is a 2HKO 64% of the time. Why not the full HP AA though...
32:34 Knuckleduster is what's needed more here. Grimm does not need the 90% when he needs more frequent reductions to his defence penalty, more so when his opponent's units are wounded.
33:14 Good play, punishing the double base skip via front shifting and then boxing in the bomber, forcing it to become passive at best.
34:17 Not quite. The moment the panic advance happened 3 turns ago and did not pull back, that was when the game is about lost. Grimm showed why here. (35:20 Too little too late here.)
35:35 B Copter can be freed, but VB would lose his MD tank.
37:15 He does not need to be reckless. The right flank is clean enough to steal income. Grimm's
38:11 Grimm's never really that suited for walling, it does look like baiting his opponent forward.
39:20 Yep, another overextension punishment (Po1and did a similar mistake except it is on the oppponent airport flank) . I wonder if the panic move at 27:36 was really a panic after that.
39:52 Match's over here.
"Dust off my face with your knuckles"
mangs plz
Can you explain to me why Vector didnt 1shot the the Tcopter on the airport at around minute 33? Allowing Grimm to build the Bcopter is throwing the game
Probably just a slipup. happens to everyone from time to time.
Grimm Guy is just trying to get Grimm promoted a tier where he belongs
That MD tank trap was just the textbook example of thinking two steps ahead. He forced his opponent to take engagements on the road where it became a sitting duck for everything that was thrown at it. The battle copter too, you'd think Grimm would take any chance at attacking on even or advantageous engagements, instead he's putting his opponent's key units into a stranglehold that can't be escaped without exposing them to the finisher. I almost want to give this tactic a flashy name here, like "Strike second to strike first"
how about "Rope a Dope"? Since so much of Grimm's terminology and themeing is already boxing related
My bet is that Grimm Guy is Grimm Guy, he's strong enough be make that kind of play, yk? and their playstyle are very simillar
Fantastic match analysis Mangs! I'm glad you mentioned the base skip early on. While having 3 active bases is fantastic, there is something to be said for skipping capturing that location for a turn if it has the express goal of providing a positional advantage with an early tank. That slight tweak gave enough early-game advantage to gain complete control over the central properties for the entire game. Some of what we interpret as "disrespectful" is a bit like twisting the rules of engagement to take advantage of Grim's reliance on positional superiority; they are unusual choices, but really being a pro is knowing when it's worth breaking the rules.
Sure, 2 transport copters is a massive loss of resources, but it also kept his airport open while the right flank attack had gradually lost impact and faltered. Which ultimately allowed him to turn up the screws with continuous battle copters in the late game. It truly is a masterclass of positioning while changing what we take for granted; Grim absolutely can't receive engagements, so Grimm Guy's patience and judgment on when to commit was incredible. Plus, those sarround's were legitimately beautiful.
Whoever it is, is probably decent at chess because Grimm seems like the type of character where either his units kill or get killed. So it's not a matter of "he can't wall" and it's more like "expect the wall to fall, but it has done its job anyway" Notice the units he uses that end up taking minor damage, he tries to heal them up to full so they can do full damage, but the ones that have taken significant damage (typically during his own attacking) he basically uses them as a wall. There is also one big advantage to a wall like this in that you don't have a bunch of almost dead units clogging up the positioning. They just die and are out of the way and then you can counter attack. Plus, this probably charges the super meter a bit faster compared to other COs.
There's also another advantage on playing this way in that it seems to draw the opponent closer to your bases where they would be over extending and then getting crushed by the flanking and the faster reinforcing capabilities.
I personally fully agree with capturing the city early on over the base in this case because having the initiative with the early tank sets up the situation where he has the initiative and positioning, allowing him to whittle away the opponent early game getting little victories that turned into big victories mid game with the numbers of hard hitting tanks. This is likely not the case on many other maps.
The transport copter is very likely not a BM (or at least not fully a BM) and was likely just a stall tactic wanting to keep the airport safe and to tie up the opponent's units while the main force flanked and wiped out all of those troops. No reason to spend a extra money on combat choppers that would just get shot down anyway. It sure felt BM-y when he placed one right next to an anti-air gun though.
What do you want to bet that this person has strategies to counter those COs that have bonus movement? Early neo tanks perhaps?
Who could Grimm Guy be? Who knows? 😄
ADMIT IT!
Mangs, if you have to change your dual strike tier list because of this genius, I’m sorry for you because it might take some time
I don't think Deejus is Grimm Guy. He is primarily a Fog player and much better in Fog than in standard. Grimm Guy exclusively plays standard though and is beating top players despite the unfavorable matchup.
Honestly when you think about it. Does Grimm really need his Super power?
His normal power gives a firepower boost as good if not better then most super powers in the game.
Heck the firepower boost is the same as SAMURAI freaking SPIRIT.
Being able to have that much firepower two turns back to back is terrifying.
If you don't have a movement advantage I can imagine facing a Grim that has good positioning is pretty scary.
8:45 This is not the music i expected but is very much appreciated. this should be played more often. this is skirmish battle song right?
Plays during Combat minigame in Dual strike
With all these tactics based on surrounding his targets it makes me feel like this is akashka fucking around
"You FOOL! You fell for it!
Thunder Grimm Split Attack!"
Please more Grim content! This is epic! 🔥🙏
I would bet, that this alt belongs to Voice of Akasha.
There is something about Grimm Guy's playstyle, that reminds me of him.
Grimm is like the Little Mac of advance wars. Clearly the worst character, but can still destroy and humiliate you if you're unprepared
Just a character that forces a lot more caution on both ends
"I know they say to respect your elders but after what you pulled, ain't no way I'm givin' you respect!"
i imangine how good he can be if everyone agrees we should make him with the day to day of AW1 Sturm
AW1 Campaign Sturm.
I absolutely love this channel and it makes me want to play advanced wars online
Regular Grimm Player: Where did my units go?
Grimm Guy: Where did your units go?
"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony defense's blessing, but because I am enlightened by my own offense."
Grim its better now that com towers dont boost defense. before it was bad for grim against others, now that com towers boost powa it makes it better because 10% def on grim was not really a great help due to the fact that he was defense negative, and now that everyone has regular def his stando powa shines more. za warudo
I discovered today that there are world leagues of advance wars. I can't believe this game is so active but that makes me happy.
looking back at this
we need Grimm Guy vs VoiceOfAkasha
Was wondering why vector sounded familiar. Just remembered I beat him in a league game like a year and a half ago as Sami. Haven't really played since, hes still going and doing pretty well.
Alright, here's my pre-watching theory for why Grimm Guy is winning:
His -20% defense tricks enemy into playing agressively, destroying many units but exposing their positions AND allowing Grimm to use his power earlier. And when they least expect it, he activates the power and uses both the increased power and his enemy's exposed positions to destroy high priority targets.
Now I'm gonna watch the video and see how far from the truth I am.
Mangs day 14 grimm is managing von bolts super. If he was harder on the attack vonbolt would have blasted a huge target.
Well, in lore, Grimm is the daredevil CO and one of Sense's students... Maybe this is the way of playing with him lmao
Grimm Guy can unironically look at the tier list defenders and say "skill issue"
4:00 Kindle on a property has more firepower than Grimm has, at all three levels (D2D, COP, SCOP).
Can you talk a little quieter I'm trying to hear the ending part of Grimm's music
It’s not Randomwayz since they’re facing off right now.
Someone immediately make a gif of that dance. what a treasure you are to the internet sir
🥚
I actually think the T-Copter build was not entirely BM. Vector's Anti-air could have destroyed the B-Copter and the artillery would have done heavy damage to the Medium Tank. This means that as Von Bolt's CO Power comes in, Grimm Guy would have only infantry and a heavily damaged Medium Tank in the immediate area, and Von Bolt could have walled and maybe captured the Airport. The T Copter was the cheapest air unit that could hold the airport tile, and the only unit that can dislodge it is the Anti Air, which is now forced to choose between killing the more valuable B-Copter and dislodging the T-Copter to block and potentially capture the airport tile. I see it as more of a stalling move, basically paying 5000 to buy a turn and the option to build something on the airport next turn. If he had built a B-Copter instead, he would have had to either forgo one of his two tank builds that turn or base skip on one base. EDIT: Ok, the second T-Copter was more than a little BM.
"he usually plays pretty cockily" -mangs
27:36 I think he may have been trying to get his power on that turn, which would have paralyzed the deathball
New meme for your consideration: When the Grimm (Doom) music kicks in.
'Lo. Mangs' cosplaying as Grimm be like:🤘😎
On that day, the Advance Wars By Web community received a Grimm reminder...
Damn! What a cool match! Seeing someone take a CO that it´s several tiers lower and use it so masterfully is mesmerizing. Props to Vector too for persevering ultil things got... too Grimm! I think many players would be quite overwhelmed if a supposedly underpowered opponent turns out like this.
I feel like it could be Sothe. I risk looking like a clown but Ill accept it
Who says it’s a single player? Could be a team of the best.
I actually played this guy the other day. I have never gotten above 900. It was a demolition.
@15:37 It sounds like Grimm alts are the players who get sick of artillery/wall play and just want to run wild on the opponent. Same big-brain play but much more dynamic.
Plot twist: Grimm Guy is actually Mangs and he has made this channel exclusively to speak badly about Grimm and thus be able to climb the ranking knowing that he is OP.
28:53 call a t-copter! call a t-copter! _but not for me._
That transports weren't disrespect, he was probably trying to divert an Ex Machina as well as mind gaming with Von Bolt's alzheimer, you just have to have a pretty high IQ to understand the thought process of a Grimmster player
If you like really galaxy brain, Grimm is just a CO that gives both players -20% defense… and if your not use to that then you won’t play well.
Doesn’t Grimm lose 30% of his defence? I also read on the wiki I think that his super power gives him a 10% defence boost
I think I played against him I remember getting real frustrated in a sami vs grim match a while back.
10:25 => obviously he took the city for that early tank
Also it's worth mentionning that he build tank on his weak side, then shift it to strong side when opponent respond with mech. This guys do knows what he's doing.
BMing in mecanical games is rude, BMing in turn-based strategy games is FLEXING XD
Hey, actually, the T-Copters allow him to defend the airport, so Von bolt has to use the AA to make room for infantry. he's "literally" buying time.
Edit : Exactly, Von bolt did a big mistake at 32:07 ! Should have killed the T-copter and put a unit on that air port ! not blocking the air port led to the B-Copter at 33:30
The future is looking Grimm...