Clearing the MYST: A 30th Anniversary Retrospective
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- #myst #pointandclickadventuregames #cyanworlds
Welcome to me revisiting one of the most important but untapped games of my youth: Myst by Cyan Worlds, spearheaded by Rand and Robyn Miller. This game was the highest selling PC game of the 90s and reinvented the point and click adventure genre. But has it Aged gracefully or is it a relic? And can I respect a game's greatness even if I often struggle to enjoy actually playing? The answers to these questions and more lie within...Myst!
0:00 Myst & Me
9:36 The Myth of Myst
20:07 Living Within Constraints
24:18 Music
25:05 Sound Effects
27:00 Voice Acting
27:53 Game Testing
29:49 A Story for the Ages
35:35 A Philosophy of Design
38:33 Puzzles As Friction
42:00 Myst Island Ship Puzzle
42:59 Channelwood Age Puzzle
45:35 Stoneship Age Puzzle
47:33 Gear Puzzle
48:20 Mechanical Age Context
49:52 Selenitic Age Puzzles
54:55 Meaning Amidst the Myst
57:07 The Burden of the Believer
1:00:13 To the End of the Ages
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RESOURCES USED:
www.allatwan.net/characters.html
archive.org/details/MacWorld_...
gwern.net/doc/fiction/science...
archive.org/details/from-myst...
www.academia.edu/675667/Navig...
grantland.com/features/lookin...
web.archive.org/web/199707131...
www.denofgeek.com/games/myst-...
www.macworld.com/article/1777...
www.avclub.com/myst-creator-r...
www.rockpapershotgun.com/myst...
adventuregamers.com/articles/...
www.inverse.com/gaming/myst-c...
www.adventureclassicgaming.co...
/ a_rant_on_mysts_mazeru...
www.spokesman.com/galleries/2... - photo credits Don Marquis, Associated Press; Dan Pelle, The Spokesman-Review; Jeff T. Green, Ap;
literatemachine.com/2020/11/2...
glitterberri.com/the-spirit-o...
www.bing.com/search?pglt=41&q... - Rock Paper Shotgun
archive.org/details/1989-08-c... - Manhole award
store.steampowered.com/curato... - for those who want to play games in the point and click adventure before and after Myst’s release
/ two-histories-of-myst
• Creating the Story of ... @FieldOfViewGameDesign
• MYST (2021) REMAKE Gam... @RECTHYDRA
• Spelunx and the Caves ... @CROLUL
• Cosmic Osmo and the Wo... @Wasabialt
• The Manhole (1988)
• Grandma Gamer Meets He... @Localish
• TINTIN Edition Compari... @ftloc
• Myst - Full Longplay @theadventuregamer9062
• Arcade Longplay - Luna... @hirudov2d
• Dev Talk: Rand Miller ... @Cyan-Official • Mysterium 2020 - A Cha... @MysteriumCon
• Making of - Myst (1993) @NeoGamer
• Classic Postmortem: Th... @gdconf
• Star Wars: Dark Forces... - @GamePlayShare
• The Amazon Trail 3rd E... @lilbumblebear
• Zork II walkthrough (A... - @AppleAdventures
• Colossal Cave Adventur... @GladeSwope
• Indiana Jones and the ... - @thriftweeds
• Sam & Max Hit the Road... @NintendoComplete
• Thief Gold | Expert Di... @ErmacgerdLongplays
• DOOM 100% Walkthrough ...
• Bricklaying. £350 an hour @CharlieCollison 
Игры
It's amazing how they were able to create all those sounds using ordinary objects. They also blew bubbles in a toilet to create the sound of bubbles outside when you solve the compass puzzle in Stoneship.
Yup! I cant remember if I included that one but def remember that being in the Making Of featurette. So creative how they got most of those sounds!
the best thing about this game was that it was a puzzle game that was strictly logic based. no items, nothing else to fuck up your intuition of the puzzles other than your interpretation of what the game is telling you.
Yeah no inventory was a big thing even back then! You either carried one page or dropped it and had to pick up the other. It was all on screen, all outside the player physically speaking
As a video creator who recently made a video on Myst 3, thank you for expanding MystTube! Very high quality video here!
Thank you so much! I know I'm not a true believer in the sense that I'm a puzzle guy but had to get my two cents to say that even if not's someone's thing, it's still worth experiencing :) I'm excited to watch what you've got going on!
When my dad left for Australia for over a year, we got to buy two games. I picked X-COM: Terror from the Deep and Myst. He warned me against Myst because it was a puzzle game and I was terrible at them. (I got Dark Forces instead.) Years later, my friend brought it over and we played it for about 20 minutes before it was like "nah, I'm good." I'm glad people don't like it and I respect the brothers for figuring it out. I enjoyed what I played of Obduction a few years ago, but holy crap, these puzzles get sooooo terrible.
Rivens apparently the worst offender, Exile (Myst 3) being much closer to Myst I hear. Yeah, i dont mind getting trashed for my outsider take on Mysts actual gameplay. I like what I like about and dont much need to "figure it out" to enjoy it or respect it. Im not much of a puzzler by trade although Im certainly not a puzzle hater, just harder to make it baseline satisfying.
And Dark Forces is a great choice. Im very hyped to get the remaster on Xbox even i own the ogs off Steam. I played that series solely for years back when i was 10 or 11
The first myst still holds up. Not sure I understand your comment
I've always been somewhat intrigued by this game but have never had the courage to commit to actually playing it. It definitely does seem like a good game to play with friends or family (depending on how cooperative you can all be). I'm jealous you got to play through it with your dad and brother, it seems like a good memory.
A great video as always, dude!
We didnt get far at all but def a fun life experience and one of the few games that really benefits from two heads is better than one. Thanks, my dude!
Hot take: The Maze runner is a good puzzle, it's just in the wrong game. You're allowed to make a ton of "progress" before even noticing the sound. Once you notice the sound you have to realize the shape of the puzzle is where you get the info of what the sounds represent. And when you're on that path, you are allowed to make a wrong judgment, and are expected to figure that out and scratch out the bad guess that lead you there.
That's not a Myst puzzle, that's a Riven puzzle.
I love that description. Yeah, thats what I felt like I was missing here, how to get into where one starts thinking like the devs do without flat out being told. Modern games dont even try but I wish we had something a little more in between. But hey, I still appreciate Myst even if Im kinda awful at it
Well said and well done! Myst was the only game released up to that point that made me feel like gaming was actually starting to realize its potential.
Yeah no matter how much I cant comprehend, theres so much you feel instinctually thats responding to the Millers careful genius
such a great video!!! didn't know much about Myst before this (though I've heard its name), but now I feel like I know it all inside and out
Thats the goal! Im glad you had a good experience!
So I'm 5 minutes in, and you know what, I love this kind of content; I could put you on all day, maybe a playlist? Just saying, so good to listen to, and it's interesting, always very interesting
:)) thanks, man. Thats really nice to hear. I very much enjoyed digging up the history. The puzzles arent my bag anyway but i took a stab cuz theyre important and people are reasonably correcting me.
I paid full price (IIRC it was either $59.99 or $79.99 - PC games could be stupidly expensive back then) for this game back in 1994 at Montgomery Ward. A buddy and I spent several weeks hunched over the keyboard staring at my 14 inch CRT color monitor working our way through the puzzles. At one point, when we were on the verge of just giving up, I ran out and paid 20 bucks for the strategy guide so we could continue. And we did, for several more weeks. IIRC, we got close to finishing, but this game had difficult areas even with a strategy guide, so we eventually lost interest and quit. Despite the negatives, the locations in the game have lodged permanently in my brain. To the point that I've purchased every single re-release, re-do and remaster of this game. Without my friend here to help me though, I don't get very far. Not my favorite game by any measure, but a very fond memory nonetheless. Great video.
Thank you, great comment! I really relate to the locations staying with you. Yeah, I was surprised how much Doom and Wolfenstein cost back in the day, like 50 or so. We complai n games got expensive but they really got cheaper especially when accounting for inflation
47:26 North is indicated on the compass there and that is 0 degrees, 135 degrees clockwise is the correct button to press. The telescope itself counts up clockwise.
I realized my fault was presuming the compass was in increments of 5 just like the telescope is so that weird assumption fubared me :/
This is how you do retrospectives. I wasn't even particularly interested in Myst, but boy was this a great watch. Definitely didn't myst the point there :) Also, holy reference list Batman!
:))) thanks so much, that means a lot! Dude, right? Every time i turned around i found a new interview with some new info
The Myst novels were quite good too, at least from what I remember.
I think the third was only disappointing because it set up sequels that never came, but it's safe sticking with the first two.
Yeah i meant to read those before i finished but got ahead of myself
You know talking about the video game industry as a whole and how they chase trends reminded me of a David Bowie interview where he talked about not playing to the gallery
Basically saying doing so as a creative you’ll always produce your worst work that way and how it’s better to work just outside your comfort zone
Idk just something that came to mind as a creative myself and with a majority artist family it really spoke to me and kinda relates to the stagnation of the current modern gaming industry as it continues to tread the same ground while chasing trends
David Lynch also has some great interviews about the creative process too which I also really take to heart but I feel like I’m kinda rambling atm so yeah
Just got me thinking and felt like leaving it as a comment
Great vid, would love to see a full on retrospective on the whole Myst series as I like your style
Also the Alone In The Dark vids were also great
Yeah! I respect Bowie and Lynch a lot. Im finding I review quite a bit of work inspired by him; I even started out my Virginia review with a quotation of his. Yeah, doing the rest of the Myst series would be tough mechanically speaking, its a bit beyond me but Ill add it to my list of requests 😉
Great video! I enjoy listening to you talk. Subbed and excited for more!
Thanks so much! Glad to have you here!
Myst is probably one of the most interesting series to talk about in gaming, but playing it is a bit of a chore.
It's far too easy to get confused because the puzzle elements are often too far away from each other for you to actually observe any effect from what you're doing.
If you don't know what is supposed to happen you can get lost trying to work out what happened, which is a massive issue if you have adhd like me. If the switch doesn't do anything within my field of view when I use it and I don't perfectly recall the state of each screen I can easily forget that I touched the switch, or how to even get back to it (though that's a problem brought on by the slideshow navigation that makes it very easy to end up facing away from the thing you're looking for, without a convenient way to turn around and take in the environment) I'm not going to have a good time.
I feel like the game demonstrates a lot of what not to do with puzzle design. Basically every problem could be addressed by either giving the player an inventory, or putting all the information needed to understand the puzzle in a less spread out way. If I need to read something to use some arcane device the manual should be in the same room. If I pull a lever or push a button, there should be a visual indication of what I did in the same room.
I know that item puzzles can be kind of lame, but I think that there's a potential for them to be really helpful in giving players direction.
Resident Evil is a great example of this: you're always picking up something that directs you towards the next progression barrier.
There's no reason why you can't have multiple puzzles accessible at once, but the difference between having three key items that you can add to slots in a final puzzle before activating it, and having the final puzzle require you to fiddle with controls that can only be accessed by opening three locked doors at different ends of an island, is that in the former instance tells you how far you've progressed and the latter makes it far too easy to get confused, or miss one of the puzzles and get stuck trying to solve the problem with only two of the three needed controls because you can't see the effect of what you're doing.
As it stands, the game actively seems to go out of its way to misdirect and confuse the player in order to try and extend the play time (and I get that it's thematically appropriate, but these are meant to be places that people lived in and they make Raccoon City seem comparatively plausible as a place where people clock in each day carrying around a bunch of keys shaped like animals and at least three objects that they will need insert into sockets inlaid into a water fountain before they can go to the toilet.)
Excellent points. Those were my quibbles as well. The pieces are so disparately strewn about oftentimes its hard to arrive at an intuitive feeling for what the gimmick is
@@HighFunctioningMedium I feel like they were trying to hide the fact that they didn't have the resources available to fully animate the screens, but when so many of the devices you're using face directly away from what happens when you activate them it starts to feel a bit silly. I get that they wanted to maintain immersion by avoiding situations where the lack of animation would be problematic, but it's one of those things that ends up being more contrived than anything.
Trying to imagine the people of these ages trying to do basic tasks whilst every piece of technology can apparently only function when you can't see what it does is quite amusing though.
Forgot to comment on this when it was released! Great video, thourough retrospective of the og and its creators, while telling your own story and relation to Myst. Great job! Looking forward to the future!
Thanks, pal! To tha futahhhh
Nice video! I've been a fan of the series ever since I played the first game on Sega Saturn. The one published by Sunsoft.
46:22 Are you saying the water pump in Stoneship is on a timer? I don't think that's true. No need to rush into the lighthouse because of that. Only the battery for the lighthouse's light is on a timer, if I remember correctly.
47:11 That's clearly a compass rose, not a "ferris wheel", and there aren't "32 lights in increments of 5". There are 32 buttons around a full circle (=360 degrees), corresponding to the 4 cardinal directions of a compass (North, East, South, West), plus three further levels of subdivisions (e.g. NE, NNE, NNNE). Look up "cardinal direction" and "compass rose" in Wikipedia, if it's unclear.
The transfer of learning you're supposed to do here is: look through the telescope, notice the significant point of interest, remember its compass direction / heading, which the telescope displays in degrees. Then, when you encounter this compass rose, realize that it has to do with cardinal directions, and therefore has a connection to the only other thing that does in this Age, the telescope. You need to be able to translate degrees to compass points, but that shouldn't be a problem if you paid attention in school (0 degrees is north, 90 degrees is east, and so on).
Certainly possible that's only in the Xbox version. Couldve sworn that was relevant but pardon my mistake if not. Another gentleman i spoke to today mentioned that so i may just be wrong!
Did you watch that "ferris wheel" section or just listen? I had a note on screen acknowledging the degrees and such. The increments of 5 still equal 65 not 135 if starting from N. It seems backwards
Unless the compass starts counting counter clockwise which would be weird
@@HighFunctioningMedium I doubt that the Xbox version of the game deviates from all the versions of Myst that I've played over the years, none of which had the water pump on a timer.
I did watch the video, but I don't understand how you get "32 lights in increments of 5". The telescope in Stoneship displays its heading in degrees. Yes, it has tick marks in increments of 5 degrees. The numbers go from 0 up to 350, only to loop around at 360=0. You do know that a circle is commonly divided into 360 degrees, right? If you want to approach it mathematically: the compass rose has 32 buttons in a full circle, thus their increment is *not* 5, but 360/32 = 11.25 degrees! So, if the first button is north, N = 0 degrees, the second button is NNNE = 11.25 degrees, the third button is NNE = 22.5 degrees, the fifth button is NE = 45 degrees, the ninth button is E = 90 degrees, and so on. North on the compass rose is marked by a fleur-de-lis.
I've edited my previous comment for clarity, perhaps that will help. If not, I really recommend reading the mentioned Wikipedia articles, or at least looking at the pictures there.
@@amarokoramaright so I wrote that silly description based off memory and then tried to throw it a bone some by the note once I looked at the PC footage, which was much more obviously a compass. Ha you know what? I think I'm transposing the increments of 5 from the rangefinder thing and retrofitting them back into the compass increments as if that was the similitude between them. Goodness, weird assumption from my "intuition" there. Thanks for unpacking that one.
dude this was such a good watch and I am not the biggest fan of point and click games
I really appreciate that, man :) im not either but this was a labor of love. Wont say itll be the last but prob one of the few point and clicks i do. They gotta be either hilarious or have great subject matter!
You ought to reexamine the lighthouse puzzle. There is no time limit, it never returns to it's previous state unless you press a different button on the pump. The lighthouse chest puzzle is one the the most well design puzzles in Myst because it challenges the player's understanding of buoyancy, a very grounded concept.
3rd person to tell me this so duly noted. Its a clever idea. A little weird to conceptualize but def a creative interlocking set of elements.
Great video, man, truly an artform in and of itself 😉. I enjoyed learning more about Myst. I've never playe dit and only seen a lottle here and there. I recently saw it had a kinda spiritual successor.
Thanks, boss :) i think the Witness is pretty heavily inspired by it. Which one you thinking of?
@HighFunctioningMedium Yeah, the Witness is for sure, but I think the one I'm thinking of is OBDUCTION.
@Deadforge yup made by Rand Miller, the man himself. I think i referenced it once here
Amazing deep dive, loved this.
I appreciate it :) glad it brought some value to you!
Very cool video about MYST! So much thought and time put into it. Wanted to thank you for making me a part of it with amazon trail. :)
Youre very welcome! Thanks so much for providing some needed footage. I find its hard as hell to get these 32 bit games working on new machines oftentimes so you provided a great service!
Now that's a concise summary of John Myst's bizarre adventures 😎
Youre such a memester XD
Mic sounds a million times better you nailed it man!
Glad it sounds good! I almost reuploaded this morning because it sounded so harsh. It was weighing on my mind quite a bit last night as I tried to cap off the high frequencies but it got reallly muddy so I had to back off. Thanks for putting that bug in my ear though and I appreciate the compliment!
The dentist chair bit got me already love it 😊
;) the Millers really leaned into that, didnt they? They call it the dentists chair and even use the drill for the date changing monitor XD
My father brought home riven. I understand the struggle
Blessing and a curse, isnt it? Heard a lot of people loved Riven but also said it was the hardest by far of the first 3 games
I played myst to try to understand riven. It was a blessing that was cursed...
Yeah, thats a RUclips walkthrough watch for me, dawg XD
John Myst lets go
John Myst, reporting for duty, SIR!
Just got this on the 3ds Very interesting port.
No kidding! That sounds like a really friendly platform for Myst!
YESSSSS NEW UPLOAD
Thats how i feel toooooo ;) finally back to me groveling for the classics while complaining about what i dont get XD
We had the guide with the game and i always got stuck. Like, i loved what it was doing, but could never figure out what to do. I still expect to rediscover the guide while deep cleaning my parents house
Yeah, its making more sense to me in retrospect but these games just kinda feel like youre either on their wavelength or off totally. Gotta kinda throw up your hands sometimes. Man, finding the original guidebook would sure be cool. Im an "antiques" nerd
I'm his brother, and do not remember ever helping him. I just wanted to click buttons haha
Hey, somebodys gotta click the buttons!
Was finally able to pass the space ship music puzzle a couple of years ago.
Ride on! That one seemed pretty intuitive and it feels, i dunno, simply but effectively diegetic
lmao i literally drew a map on graph paper to get through the mine cart maze, absolutely tedious but eventually i found every dead end then found the right way out. im sure they never even imagined such a creatively stupid solution to the puzzle
Hats off to you. Gotta do what you gotta do. I'm very manual and tactile and visual in how I learn and think about things so I'd prob have to do that too back in the day
For a second i thought this is "Mist"
which is a VERY different kind of game lul
Ha which one is that? Im seeing a survival game and an NFT game Xzd
Anybody else wish they could make this island somewhere I mean that's one hell of a legacy to leave behind
Wouldnt that be an awesome theme park attraction if not just a recreated set?
59:35 I see what you did there 😎😎😎
Hey man, im just a realistttt
Mads Mikkelsen is Hifuncs dad? Makes sense actually.
Just the one that looks most like and hes one of my dads fav actors so Dads Mikkelsen it is XD actually it was my wifes idea to use him as a proxy!
Because of your old man you probably got to watch some of the best action movies I mean if you see what's coming out none of them hold a candle to Schwarzenegger movies like The running man or the Legacy that is and is epic Opus Rocky franchise
It's funny. I didn't see Total Recall until last year with my wife but that sound he makes is so classic I had to use it. My dads a little more realistic or gritty I guess so he likes stuff like Payback, Lethal Weapon, Terminator, etc. Guess Total Recall was too whacky or something. Though his favorite movie is Blade Runner so y'know!
Truly sad you've not seen The running man definitely worth a watch to get a chance
Yeah HBOs got so many of these movies and Im working thru them. Just saw Robocop last week finally
you kinda sound like MrBtongue
Thats a new one! Lemme look this person up...shoot, I do, dont I!
Good voice @@HighFunctioningMedium
@1sweetree i appreciate that very much!
Myst? Bah! I had the far superior Pyst starring John Goodman.... Wait was that actually real or just a tbi? Well, either way it was better than Myst.
Oh yeah, Pyst is a hundred percent a parody of Myst XD I read about it in passing but somehow never crossed my mind to make room for it!
@@HighFunctioningMedium To be fair it's a fever dream best left forgotten.
Hey im down for memes every now and again
I can see it now. This will be the video where you finally “make it”, your subscriber count explodes, and in about 10 years time you’ll go and spoil it all by saying or doing something you can’t take back while high on your own hype.
What happened to you, HFM?
I guess I'm just Too High on My Own Hype to Function Medium.....
Too hard...I had to BUY a walkthrough book.
Oh i hear you 100 percent
I didn't expect this video to have this many jokes so I stopped watching on minute 7.
7 mins is the dumbest joke. The rest of the video is much more straightforward and prosaic if you wanted to give it another chance. I think youll enjoy it. Lotta good history and stuff :)
trash game
Harsh! Not my cup of tea in many ways, but def a vibe