8 is so tragic because all he wanted to do was to continue to travel and save people. But the Time-War just grew and consumed everywhere it reached. To the point where even he wasn’t enough to stop it. And it’s even more tragic that not many fans even know about it.
8's birth was the Doctor returning to optimism and idealism after 7's chessmaster and 'greater good' phase... The universe then proceeded to grind that optimism into a fine powder and make him suffer for his idealism, again and again and again. His death was easily one of, if not THE most despairing regenerations of the Doctor's entire existence. Renouncing his name, his purpose and his hope. 8 was a good man. But he was born into a era that had no place for good men.
Damn. yeah. 2 years ago me has no idea what’s coming and would be horrified if I told her. Obviously not to the same level as the doctor in any way but the sentiment is very similar.
What makes this so sad, is the simple fact, 10 is remembering how fun and joyous travelling was before the Time War. Before everything he saw was with dark eyes and the Doctor we know from 1 to 8 died. And he was reborn as a bitter and angry War Doctor. You see 10 looks like the happy go lucky Doctor of old but it's almost one big trick to fool himself as much as anyone else. So, he can pretend the bogey monsters didn't really come from under his bed and ruin his dreams.
There's a similar moment in All Flesh is Grass. Time Lord Victorious might have been a pain to gather together, but there's some real deep stuff in there.
"I guess I did headbutt Karn quite hard, memories are a bit wobbly" A simple description of the 8th Doctor's long complicated life, plus the whole debacle of his canonicity, and whether is it Big Finish or the EDA novels that count, or both.
I legit love this line so much. So cool to hear 10 acknowledge the death of 8. Wish more doctors would talk about their past deaths more often it's really never brought up much.
Oh, it's both. Even a ref to the EDA The Bodysnatchers in the Lucie Miller audios and the purple Volkswagen Beetle turning up in Dark Eyes (along with The Company of Friends and Fitz being name dropped in the 10th Doctor Titan Comics series) outright confirms they all happened
What I find so interesting is how care free and happy the doctor was before hand and 10 remembers that he feels about because that version of himself is close to enduring that and I think he misses the simpler times when things were brighter
Big Finish audios are amazing because the possibilities are endless. You just close your eyes and it’s a whole entire episode right there in front of you. So much better than TV
@@marsbar31000the tv show doesn’t often describe the visuals to you though (unless you’re watching the Chibnall era. I heard something about him having written his episodes to accommodate viewers looking at their phones).
Im glad the 14th doctor finally got to have some rest! These doctors truly never stopped dealing with problems one after another never slowing down never looking back and yeah its nice knowing he got to stop and enjoy life and share stories i actually think bi regeneration with 14th getting to chill was great writing for us fans
@@timrob12i don't think so the doomsday event was with rose tyler no with donna noble yes her daughter will be name rose but that can be a residual memories or echoes of her old and erased memory when they do the metacrisis of a human and a time a lord
@@bugy_sponge idk if any stories currently exist where they do but they always could in the future. the key thing is that when the Doctor meets once of his future selves, he can't remember the events after he leaves his future selves' timestream. after the 10th Doctor left the 11th Doctor in the gallery after Day of the Doctor, he didn't remember meeting his future self at all. similarly, 11th Doctor doesn't remember meeting the Curator because that's a future incarnation of himself. so there's always room for more stories. novels or audios are entirely possible where 8 and 10 can meet without it breaking canon or anything.
Truly sad. The Doctor never did regain that care free and happy attitude again throughout New Who, not until 13. She was the only one that felt like The Doctor was finally healing and had found their optimism and love for everything in the universe again.
1:07 i wish , i wish i could apologise to My younger Self like this, Gues i'm doing that now "Terribly Alone , Even when Surrounded by the Best of Friends" If Only The Younger Joe knew But i Wouldnt be Who i am If it wasent For Those Mistakes Rigth Joe ?
Could I have a crumb of context for what is about to happen to 8? I haven't been able to listen to the Big Finish audio. Is he about to engage in the Time War?
From what I've seen from other fans, 8s whole deal was that he was desperately trying to be the doctor in a universe that didnt really value him anymore. The time war was in full swing and he kept failing to save people. Eventually he came to the conclusion that the universe needed a warrior more than a doctor and he would basically force himself to regenerate into a version of himself that was more willing to fight on the battlefield
@@ollieeyre3983 so the creature down on that planet, how does the 8th doctor going to it mean that it'll spiral into the time war? Like in terms of Point A to Point B
@@hopelessgamer2538he still tried until his death, he was kept alive by the Sisters of Karn to enable him to choose his new form rather than randomly …he chose a warrior and got the War Doctor
@@Hello-Studentsit doesn’t. It’s just that TLV happens shortly before the Time War begins. Well, I say begin. From the 8th Doctor’s perspective it just randomly appeared one day and overwrote the adventure he was on. One minute, he and his companion Sheena were investigating a nefarious plot on a luxury cruise liner, the next, the cruise liner became a refugee ship fleeing from the Daleks, Sheena had been erased from history, and the Time War had suddenly been happening for a while.
Nope...13s entire run was garbage writing...only good bits were where the older doctors return, i mean...they literally destroyed galafrey again... and fucked up the doctors entire origin story
From the 8th Doctor’s perspective, this happens a short while before the Time War began. From the 10th Doctor’s perspective, this is happening shortly after the Waters of Mars (as well as the rest of the Time Lord Victorious multi-media event).
Really I'm starting to hate the time war and what it did to the whoniverse. It burned through an off screen Regen, got rid of gallefrey and any side time lord stories, shrunk the universe and it wasn't even Paul McGann who was involved. I get why they did it, it solved certain problems at the time but in the long run it hurts more than helps.
While not handled as well after russell I liked that they got rid of gallifray I really wasn't a fan of any time lord stories other than their first in the war games. Plus was a more intresting direction for nuwho
@hazmat7949 I disagree. I liked Time Lord stories, especially when they sent the Doctor off on some mission or other because that's how the deal worked. Doctor has freedom in exchange for favours from time to time. Or the time when the Doctor became President of Gellefrey to avoid legal troubles. Plus in Big Finish the Time Lords make appearances and there are some great stories. The Eighth Doctor fights a galactic war with Mobius, or when he gets sent to the anti time universe after he fought Rassilon. It was also another check on the Doctors importance factor. As the last time lord he has basically become Superman last son of Gallefrey. It's always nice to know that the Time Lords can check his shit anytime anywhere if they had to.
Yup. Even during Chibnall's disastrous tenure and the Timeless Child Retcon, Big Finish's main Doctor Who stories were killing it. (MAIN, not spin-offs or whatever the hell "Doom's Day" is) EDIT: And considering the first 60th anniversary special showed that Davies' new tenure will be an extension of Chibnall's run's tendency to virtue signal and alienate, I think Big Finish will CONTINUE to kill it and be the best Doctor Who readily available in the modern day.
Oh, Doctor Who was never political? Someone go back to the 60s and tell the BBC that, so they can avoid making the Daleks obvious Nazis, and the Cybermen communists. Next you'll tell me Starship Troopers is just a fun romp about shooting bugs and seeing a few tits.
@@NoobixCube to be fair, the Cybermen weren't communists, that's a later interpretation. The anxiety there was cybernetic replacements and surgery gone wild. But there's the entirety of the UNIT era to point to, as well, where many of the episodes are thinly veiled political allegories, sometimes not even veiled at all. Or the 80s, where villains were often Margaret Thatcher, other reactionary forces, or actual straight up Nazis.
He’s being reminded of how happy and carefree he used to be before his life got ruined by the time war. I think he has a right to be a little dramatic in this instance.
Now Thanks to the Bi Generation all the Doctors Came back they all Bi Generated they are all alive and out there in the Present in the Galaxy and Can Pop in at any Time, This is Fantastic.
The thing is that they can’t talk like they would on TV, because their voice is their only asset in audio. If they’re not speaking clearly, then the listener can’t follow what’s happening (the Committee/Cyberplanner from Spare Parts, for instance).
All these Big Finish multi Doc stories are so lame. It used to be something unique and special, BF have ruined it by doing dozens and dozens of multi Docs. It isn’t special anymore. Plus it’s obvious that most of the time they’re not even recording their parts at the same time.
The expanded media is not representative of the tv show. They only get weirder and more referential because they know that most of the people buying these audios are the hardcore nerds.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
8 is so tragic because all he wanted to do was to continue to travel and save people. But the Time-War just grew and consumed everywhere it reached. To the point where even he wasn’t enough to stop it. And it’s even more tragic that not many fans even know about it.
8's birth was the Doctor returning to optimism and idealism after 7's chessmaster and 'greater good' phase... The universe then proceeded to grind that optimism into a fine powder and make him suffer for his idealism, again and again and again.
His death was easily one of, if not THE most despairing regenerations of the Doctor's entire existence. Renouncing his name, his purpose and his hope.
8 was a good man. But he was born into a era that had no place for good men.
@@JamesTobiasStewartDude needs a hug, he only wanted to be someone that people could count on, but the universe said no to that. 😭
@@windghost2 Oh absolutely. He needs one and after all the shit he went through, he more than deserves it.
Then he became John Hurt
They are actors.
"I'm sorry for everything I'm about to put you through" ... If we could talk to our younger selves, I feel like so many of us would say the same.
Such a painfully true statement.
tearing up in the club right now… well said :, )
Damn. yeah. 2 years ago me has no idea what’s coming and would be horrified if I told her. Obviously not to the same level as the doctor in any way but the sentiment is very similar.
What makes this so sad, is the simple fact, 10 is remembering how fun and joyous travelling was before the Time War. Before everything he saw was with dark eyes and the Doctor we know from 1 to 8 died. And he was reborn as a bitter and angry War Doctor.
You see 10 looks like the happy go lucky Doctor of old but it's almost one big trick to fool himself as much as anyone else. So, he can pretend the bogey monsters didn't really come from under his bed and ruin his dreams.
Bullllllllll shhhhhiiiit
There's a similar moment in All Flesh is Grass. Time Lord Victorious might have been a pain to gather together, but there's some real deep stuff in there.
Oh yes@@RichieTheTotodile pain is usually more revealing than happiness.
David
That's perfectly said.
Wasn't 7 a bastard?
Like he was good at getting people to kill themselves kinda evil.
"I guess I did headbutt Karn quite hard, memories are a bit wobbly"
A simple description of the 8th Doctor's long complicated life, plus the whole debacle of his canonicity, and whether is it Big Finish or the EDA novels that count, or both.
I legit love this line so much. So cool to hear 10 acknowledge the death of 8. Wish more doctors would talk about their past deaths more often it's really never brought up much.
Oh, it's both. Even a ref to the EDA The Bodysnatchers in the Lucie Miller audios and the purple Volkswagen Beetle turning up in Dark Eyes (along with The Company of Friends and Fitz being name dropped in the 10th Doctor Titan Comics series) outright confirms they all happened
@@SuperWolsey Exactly. Time is messy.
@@misterblueskyyy with Ace in recent years it's messier.
@@SuperWolsey tbh it’s weird since aren’t a lot of those novels wiped from history anyway
8 has enough psychotic breaks that his memory loss could easily be explained away by one of them, he defined the phrase "madman with a box".
12 had his fair share as well
What I find so interesting is how care free and happy the doctor was before hand and 10 remembers that he feels about because that version of himself is close to enduring that and I think he misses the simpler times when things were brighter
Big Finish audios are amazing because the possibilities are endless. You just close your eyes and it’s a whole entire episode right there in front of you. So much better than TV
I mean you can do that with TV.
@@marsbar31000lol true
I wouldn’t start saying any of them are better than the other, they’re just really different.
@@marsbar31000the tv show doesn’t often describe the visuals to you though (unless you’re watching the Chibnall era. I heard something about him having written his episodes to accommodate viewers looking at their phones).
@@EditedAF987 That just means you'd need more imagination.
Im glad the 14th doctor finally got to have some rest! These doctors truly never stopped dealing with problems one after another never slowing down never looking back and yeah its nice knowing he got to stop and enjoy life and share stories i actually think bi regeneration with 14th getting to chill was great writing for us fans
As council of geeks said, bi generation sounds like a bad idea on paper but it was done so well that it’s actually great
@@hopekeeley2122 Agreed. They were based for that.
I blame the fact i watched Ducktales earlier but i could not unhear Scrooge McDuck during the first 10 seconds. And i am so not complaining
he doesn’t hide his natural accent as much in these compared with when he’s being filled so his Scottish blood shines through 😎
I'm convinced that Fourteen has appeared to deal with something that Timelord Victorious didn't finish. Something TV needs Doctor-Donna to complete.
I'm convinced you're 1000% wrong. Wanna bet on it?
Highly doubt it. It'll have nowt to do with TLV, it's all a new story with the Toymaker
@@DBProds96 Maybe it has a connection to the Doom's Day event, though.
@@timrob12i don't think so the doomsday event was with rose tyler no with donna noble yes her daughter will be name rose but that can be a residual memories or echoes of her old and erased memory when they do the metacrisis of a human and a time a lord
@@kr3227 I meant the current Doom's Day multi-platform event.
1:03 makes me cry every time! David Tennent is such a treasure!
Me when I’m watching old photos of me
I've actually been wishing for a scene like this. Thank you, Big Finish.
Oh god that's so sad.
Eight is so tragic he has my heart and soul
Why is losing his memory, like, half of the eighth doctor's personality?
So McGanns Doctor and Tennents Doctor never actually interact?
not in this story
@@Schrobich does that mean they actually meet? sorry to bother with the question but I can't find info about it anywhere oddly enough
@@bugy_sponge they do meet in the novel _Time Lord Victorious: All Flesh is Grass_ - and the 9th Doctor is there as well.
@@bugy_sponge idk if any stories currently exist where they do but they always could in the future. the key thing is that when the Doctor meets once of his future selves, he can't remember the events after he leaves his future selves' timestream. after the 10th Doctor left the 11th Doctor in the gallery after Day of the Doctor, he didn't remember meeting his future self at all. similarly, 11th Doctor doesn't remember meeting the Curator because that's a future incarnation of himself.
so there's always room for more stories. novels or audios are entirely possible where 8 and 10 can meet without it breaking canon or anything.
But the 7th knows what the 8th looks like (it's in the fandom time theory one of them)
Truly sad. The Doctor never did regain that care free and happy attitude again throughout New Who, not until 13. She was the only one that felt like The Doctor was finally healing and had found their optimism and love for everything in the universe again.
That’s just bad writing. she didn’t give a single shit about gallifrey getting destroyed again and half the universe getting wiped out
@@TheGeoXWar There's always that one nuWho fan with a hot take. 13 felt like a classic Doctor in all the best ways.
@@ajzn97 that’s not a hot take. It’s literally what happened.
@@TheGeoXWar Nah, nuWho fans are very selective and only talk from what they little know about DW (5 or 6 years of a 60 year old show) in general.
@@ajzn97 that’s normal, why do you expect people to know everything about a 60 year old show? even for classic who standards, 13 is poorly written.
My headcanon is that Eighth Doctor was in Day of the Doctor
You mean, Night of the Doctor.
@mayotango1317 do you know what a headcanon is?
I wasnt even aware that there was a doctor who audio drama o.o
Oh man, Big Finish has Sooo many episodes. Get on that!
Oh there are many many many many many audio dramas with many of the doctors
I would love to see a series following this story set up with 13 and fugitive doctors.
Based on 13 searching for answers prior to flux
If only her acting wasn't so shite
I'd prefer it if we just all collectively forgot about the "not Doctor".
@@mikebliss3153 I liked Jo Martin's performance
@@MrSamMaloney That makes one of us.
@@mikebliss3153 That's the beautiful thing about fandom we can all have different views and get along. :)
Address the King Of The Weevils yet?
1:07 i wish , i wish i could apologise to My younger Self like this, Gues i'm doing that now
"Terribly Alone , Even when Surrounded by the Best of Friends"
If Only The Younger Joe knew
But i Wouldnt be Who i am
If it wasent For Those Mistakes
Rigth Joe ?
Does anyone know the name of the music at 0:15
Could I have a crumb of context for what is about to happen to 8?
I haven't been able to listen to the Big Finish audio. Is he about to engage in the Time War?
From what I've seen from other fans, 8s whole deal was that he was desperately trying to be the doctor in a universe that didnt really value him anymore. The time war was in full swing and he kept failing to save people. Eventually he came to the conclusion that the universe needed a warrior more than a doctor and he would basically force himself to regenerate into a version of himself that was more willing to fight on the battlefield
He’s referring to the events of Time Lord Victorious and the Time War
@@ollieeyre3983 so the creature down on that planet, how does the 8th doctor going to it mean that it'll spiral into the time war? Like in terms of Point A to Point B
@@hopelessgamer2538he still tried until his death, he was kept alive by the Sisters of Karn to enable him to choose his new form rather than randomly …he chose a warrior and got the War Doctor
@@Hello-Studentsit doesn’t. It’s just that TLV happens shortly before the Time War begins. Well, I say begin. From the 8th Doctor’s perspective it just randomly appeared one day and overwrote the adventure he was on.
One minute, he and his companion Sheena were investigating a nefarious plot on a luxury cruise liner, the next, the cruise liner became a refugee ship fleeing from the Daleks, Sheena had been erased from history, and the Time War had suddenly been happening for a while.
this reminds me of prince of persia, warrior within
The Big Finish team should do the TV series
Fuck yeah...that would be awesome
This is woke fanservice.
How...how is it woke fanservice...this is legit better than anything we have had since the 12th doctor regenerated
@@BlueMoon56832 What about Power of the Doctor.
Nope...13s entire run was garbage writing...only good bits were where the older doctors return, i mean...they literally destroyed galafrey again... and fucked up the doctors entire origin story
ouchie
When did this Happen? I Hope this is Canon it's so Cool.
From the 8th Doctor’s perspective, this happens a short while before the Time War began. From the 10th Doctor’s perspective, this is happening shortly after the Waters of Mars (as well as the rest of the Time Lord Victorious multi-media event).
Is this fanmade or audio from Big finish?
It's a Big Finish
Really I'm starting to hate the time war and what it did to the whoniverse. It burned through an off screen Regen, got rid of gallefrey and any side time lord stories, shrunk the universe and it wasn't even Paul McGann who was involved. I get why they did it, it solved certain problems at the time but in the long run it hurts more than helps.
While not handled as well after russell I liked that they got rid of gallifray I really wasn't a fan of any time lord stories other than their first in the war games. Plus was a more intresting direction for nuwho
@hazmat7949 I disagree. I liked Time Lord stories, especially when they sent the Doctor off on some mission or other because that's how the deal worked. Doctor has freedom in exchange for favours from time to time. Or the time when the Doctor became President of Gellefrey to avoid legal troubles. Plus in Big Finish the Time Lords make appearances and there are some great stories. The Eighth Doctor fights a galactic war with Mobius, or when he gets sent to the anti time universe after he fought Rassilon. It was also another check on the Doctors importance factor. As the last time lord he has basically become Superman last son of Gallefrey. It's always nice to know that the Time Lords can check his shit anytime anywhere if they had to.
Ouch
Yup. Even during Chibnall's disastrous tenure and the Timeless Child Retcon, Big Finish's main Doctor Who stories were killing it. (MAIN, not spin-offs or whatever the hell "Doom's Day" is)
EDIT: And considering the first 60th anniversary special showed that Davies' new tenure will be an extension of Chibnall's run's tendency to virtue signal and alienate, I think Big Finish will CONTINUE to kill it and be the best Doctor Who readily available in the modern day.
CBBC Doom
Why are people still so mad about Doom's Day? It's literally just some stories.
Get a life and/or acknowledge that Doctor Who was always political. This is in line with a lot of Davies first run
Oh, Doctor Who was never political? Someone go back to the 60s and tell the BBC that, so they can avoid making the Daleks obvious Nazis, and the Cybermen communists. Next you'll tell me Starship Troopers is just a fun romp about shooting bugs and seeing a few tits.
@@NoobixCube to be fair, the Cybermen weren't communists, that's a later interpretation. The anxiety there was cybernetic replacements and surgery gone wild. But there's the entirety of the UNIT era to point to, as well, where many of the episodes are thinly veiled political allegories, sometimes not even veiled at all. Or the 80s, where villains were often Margaret Thatcher, other reactionary forces, or actual straight up Nazis.
I wish 10 got dragged more often by his other incarnations for being such a fucking drama queen.
He’s being reminded of how happy and carefree he used to be before his life got ruined by the time war. I think he has a right to be a little dramatic in this instance.
Now Thanks to the Bi Generation all the Doctors Came back they all Bi Generated they are all alive and out there in the Present in the Galaxy and Can Pop in at any Time, This is Fantastic.
Bad writing more like
Only 14-15 bigenerated
Heh BI generation
Nah that was some Weird Idea Rusty Had
Only 14 , For Now only 14
I just hate the way they sound u can pure tell it’s a audio story I wish they just sounded like it wud in an episode
The thing is that they can’t talk like they would on TV, because their voice is their only asset in audio. If they’re not speaking clearly, then the listener can’t follow what’s happening (the Committee/Cyberplanner from Spare Parts, for instance).
Gotta find something to whinge about, huh?
I honestly don't know what you mean.
Well... That's because it is an audio story
you're not intelligent
The writing of Big Finish is soooooo bad 😭😭
This comment is so badddd 😭😭😭😭😭
This comment is terrible 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Why cry
Cap, This is amazing
How
All these Big Finish multi Doc stories are so lame. It used to be something unique and special, BF have ruined it by doing dozens and dozens of multi Docs. It isn’t special anymore. Plus it’s obvious that most of the time they’re not even recording their parts at the same time.
Good lord I'm glad I stopped watching this series a decade ago before it became a flailing fan pandering self referential circle jerk.
bye then lol
The expanded media is not representative of the tv show. They only get weirder and more referential because they know that most of the people buying these audios are the hardcore nerds.
No one cares, mate.
Really? A decade? You miss the Capaldi era.