Where to start: Photons - yes there is shot noise in light but most of the problematic noise in a video system comes from the electronics. It's only when you get to extremely low light levels that the randomness in light starts to become a factor. Photon shot noise only increases by around 1/2 a stop for each stop you go down while the effects of read noise doubles for each stop you go down. So in the deep shadows the read noise from the electronics is almost always more significant than the shot noise. The number of photons hitting a photosite during a typical exposure is not in the thousands, it will be in the 10's of thousands and the amount of photons needed to result in a full image well in a typical modern sensor is closer to 100,000.
Dynamic range from the top of the well can and often is manipulated. In a dual ISO sensor the full well capacity is increased by adding an additional capacitor for the sensitivity range, this shifts the sensitivity down by the image well now needing a lot more photons/electrons to fill the well. There is no reason why additional capacitance can't be added in other sensor designs to increase the highlight range of the photosite. But there are other bottlenecks such as the maximum voltage swing that the emitter follower can handle or limitations in the ADC.
The least amount of noise would come from sensor run much cooler than 40c. A cold sensor will deliver less noise than a warmer one. But it is very difficult to run a sensor below the dew point of the environment the camera is in without condensation forming. Additionally it would require a lot of extra power to actively cool a sensor to below the ambient temperature. So, sensors are typically allowed to run at at least 40c as it is easy to use variable speed fan cooling to maintain a temperature higher than most normal operating environments. Many cameras take the air that is used to cool the electronics and then pass this already warm air over the sensor to quickly bring the sensor up to a constant temperature. This is more electrically efficient than trying to use a peltier device to regulate the temperature. And the majority of cameras no longer need black balancing.
There are many ways to allow a 12 bit ADC to record a dynamic range greater than 12 stops. The source follower buffer between the image well and ADC can have a non linear response. The use of non-linear ADCs on CMOS sensors has been common for a long time as has the use of Floating Point ADC's. Sensor manufacturers are often very secretive about the processes they use, but there are plenty of well established ways to get a lot more than 12 stops from 12 bits. The 12 bits ADC can only 12 stops argument simply doesn't hold water and there are plenty of camera tests that prove this. Where 12 bit is limiting is not the range of stops but the precision. Precision is important because you want to be able to record the sensor noise as finely as possible. If the ADC is too coarse, the noise will be coarse and separating the noise from the smallest stops becomes more difficult and as a result you get a poor SNR. A deeper bit depth would allow the noise to be recorded more precisely allowing for smaller lower stop levels to be discerned or used. So, a 12 bit ADC won't generally allow you to go as far into the shadows as a 14bit ADC. But the total Range may be the same. But there are a lot of other factors that affect noise such as screening and filtering, management of noise in the power supply etc, so why a 12 bit ADC will tend to limit the useable range and a s a result many similar sensor designs will perform very similarly it certainly isn't the only factor to be considered.
If you plot linear gamma using a log scale (stops) on one axis and a linear scale (code values) on the other then of course you will get a curve. Change the log stop axis to lumens and you will get a straight line. The reason your charts are counter intuitive is because you are mixing log and linear scales on the same chart.
Log gamma isn't almost lossless, it actually very lossy, don't mistake the concept of "visually lossless" with what is actually going on, with log huge amounts of data is being discarded, data that can never be recovered. And it's not just highlight data. Most log implementations use power law gamma up to somewhere around middle grey and then become log at middle grey. If they didn't have the lower power law curve at the bottom there loosy nature of log would result in insufficient mid range date for a decent image. Go up 1 log stop from middle grey and you only have half as much tonal information as you could have, 2 stops up and only a quarter - these aren't highlights, this is the mid range where skin tones etc are, even a normal power law gamma such as Rec-709 will give you more mid range tonal information than log (at the same bit depth for both). If you do work with high bit depth linear material you can see a difference in the highlight textures, especially if you are doing an exposure shift. Log is a fairly big compromise, it is very lossy.
Dude!! This would be among the best video I have ever seen!! A creative person talking about the camera with such technicalilty with such depth, not shilling for any company, the humour in the video, DAMN!! I just wanna say this. Please don't look at the views and feel discouraged. You got the potential to be an amazing storyteller! An hour just flew by!! Please do make more videos! RUclips needs people who can talk technicalities of image capturing, but also touch grass and speak reality. You just made my day amazing dude! Thanks for the 8 weeks of effort! Worth every minute (atleast for us lol)!!
This video is so good, it should be the first video suggested for anyone searching for DSLR, mirrorless, cinematography, videography or anything related to video. Google should pin this to YT's main page. There are a lot of great videos, a lot, but none are close to how good is this one. Amazing work my man! 👍
@@shagral Not sure if it was just dumb luck or you are actually a really smart and intelligent person but this video is good on so many levels that the challenge you are facing is being able to consistently come up with videos at this level. I imagine the production effort was serious so it would be stupid to think you could post weekly stuff like this but even if you post once every 3 months something at this level, you would totally rock YT. Honestly, it's the first video that actually blew me away and makes me want to like it 10 times and I've seen a million videos on YT. It goes very in-depth while at the same time being extremely relatable and not seeming like you are patronizing the viewers with your knowledge and yes, your funny moments definitely make it more enjoyable. Really, really, really good job man!
I would consider not counting on the actual Production & active Research - Time ... the real time you spend were all the moments you were thinkin where to start or how to put all that together. Thats way more than 8 weeks of 8 to 10 h days .... All I can say is: very much Thank You for your good work!!!
This is one of the best videos on the topic. Hats off! As a VFX professional approaching hobby cinematography I quickly realised how the cinematic look was influenced by the limitations of the filmstock and the creative workarounds DPs came up with to manage the scene contrast before if was recorded. But it's expensive to achieve. People these days think they can slap a LUT on a crappily lit scene and expect magic because 'dynamic range'... LOL But i also realised the problems with uncontrollable saturated light sources when doing run-n-gun , namely street lights and car lights which have become much brighter due to LEDs being used.
thank you very much, finally a video where we are not trying to sell you the latest camera, with wider rims and chrome mirrors. very informative, no lame marketing, no "amazing revolution" or "game changer" or "you absolutely need it", I had forgotten that you could still get information on RUclips. thanks again
Just randomly stumbled on this amazing video. No previous exposure to any of this stuff, but was riveted by the drama. Obviously I see parallels in other areas of life, human nature seems to mean we often obsess about the wrong things. Very well executed.
You can already get a 14-stop camera for under $10,000.... Get the Fuji X-H2S, then get a DJI Gimbal that solves the wonky IBIS, then get the DJI LiDAR addon that lets you autofocus manual cinema lenses which solves the lens ecosystem and sketchy autofocus problems. EZ.
Definitely one of the most important video to watch for all camera nerds to escape all the marketing bs. We often chase the latest cameras with high chart scores and end up not using their full potential.
I've been shooting for over 10 years now and i've never seen it all explained this effectively, I learned a bunch of stuff I thought I already knew too
This is without a doubt one of the best videos on the topic. Very thorough not just from a theoretical side but from a practical side as well. Absolutely criminal this doesn't have more views
Totally agree with conclusions, great video. But objective DR tests prove your “DR is limited to the ADC” wrong, despite misgivings you may have with them. Manufacturers use compression at the analogue level and the digital level. Also, if you know what you’re doing, you can capture nearly just as good at 8 bit. Also, also, I have an Alexa hook up if you’re looking to shoot in the Sacramento area.
Came here from Camera Conspiracies... bruuuh... this video is insanely underviewed and underrated!!! What the hell man.. this was a delightful masterpiece of knowledge to watch.. thank you so much!
Yes I remember now, it was shot during the location scout for a proof of concept reel and ended up in the final movie Edit: @owlbot didn't notice the user name at first. Hi Kenny! Love your Frame & Reference podcast, great work. Hope you enjoyed the video.
@@shagral Oh wow thanks man that means a lot. I absolutely did enjoy the video, you certainly put more work into making education fun than I do LMAO! Your production value is up there with the best on this platform
Bravo! Probably the most informative and honest video on YT about video camera technology. Great illustrations and clever humor bits help retain the attention all the way to end. Thank you, look forward to more of your videos.
This is one of the best videos I have watched in a long time! I came in via what I thought was a click-bait title, because dynamic range interests me, but from a photography perspective, but this is no click-bait, but the real thing. Excellent job. Interesting and informative, I learned a lot. If I did anything meaningful with video, I would instantly subscribe.
06:10 Tony Northup might want a word with you. He tested the images alone from equal size but different pixel count sensors. In all the cases higher pixel count sensor gave the more usable image.
Another way to put it, the cinematographer creates the scene by controlling the light and the camera only captures it. 'Why do cinema productions with the most expensive camera use so many lights?'
99% agree, just a nerdy thing. The AD circuit can code DR into more or fewer bits. 12 bit does not need to code 12 stops. with fewer bits you start to mess with digital noise vs. shot noise, dark noise and AD noise. But strictly speaking, the coding is not 1 to 1.
You didn't have to go this hard. I already liked the video. But seriously, great job! It wasn't only delivering helpful information and facts. You synthesized those to give PERSPECTIVE! something we should all be looking for. Thank you for this.
Just finished this. Wow man, i'm impressed at the quality of your. No youtube on this entire platform has even discussed all this and to the detail you have. I managed to come to the same conclusions as you did. I use an old canon dslr with a 14 year old sensor and today I came to the most baffling conclusion which is it's dynamic range matches those of modern sensors. At first I couldn't believe it but switching from 14bit mode to 12bit mode made it fully apparent. About a stop or more of dynamic range loss sealed the deal. It's actually crazy how similar cameras/video are to microphones and audio systems
I would have taken 2hours of this. Truly don't have words to describe what I just watched. But I laughed way more at the paradoxes than I should have 😂. Masterfully put together and also felt that inspiration at the end
Crazy good video so far. So glad youtube recommended it Edit: just finished, and I want to say thank you. This was super informative and never lost my attention. I had to watch in separate sessions due to my schedule, but this was something that I actively sat down to watch and gave my attention to. Excited to see more of your work
Bit depth is not directly related to dynamic range. There is not a one to one correspondence between bits and each stop. The bit depth creates the total possible number of increments that can be assigned to the stop levels. So if you have 12 bits you have 4096 levels. If there are 13 stops, you can assign 315 levels(4096/13) for each stop. If you had a camera with 16 stops and wanted 315 increments or more per stop(16x315=5040), you would just need one extra bit(13 bits=8192 levels, 8192/16 stops=512 increments per stop).
Must watch video. Also a self help video for those with GAS. This deepest and biggest cutting through the BS of camera marketing I have ever witnessed!
bro, I searched countless times what dynamic range is actually. watched many videos. your video never showed up. the most practical video I have seen about dynamic range
i feel like there is a whole spectrum of its own within the world of computational photography and its dynamic range capabilities. but as a standalone for a simple breakdown of most of the important factors of hardware photosensor equipment this was very well made and commendable have a great day
thank you, mate. this was really good. i would have been even harsher towards the end, so i appreciate how reserved you've been about the tech specs being the imaginary currency for people who so often have never and may very likely will never make a body of artistic work.
Agreed, but I do get the allure of tech, I think we should learn the tools, but it's so easy to get lost in the specs & comparisons and forget they're just that - tools.
@@shagral oh i'm absolutely with you; it's on us as technicians that also have creative vision to know about the skills required and how the tools work, but i simply worry that tech elitism has provided the platform for so many who have chronically avoid stepping up creatively.
Incredibly instructive, well researched and fun. It’s so useful. Give us a simple way to financially support this video, the insane amount of work you put into it definitely deserves it. Keep going!
Thanks for the kind words! Memberships & supers are now active on the channel. Alternatively there are links to paypal and crypto in the description. Thanks, I appreciate the support!
Highlights: 00:00 The camera industry has misled us with dynamic range numbers, but understanding technical aspects and addressing noise can improve sensor sensitivity and dynamic range. 08:58 The digital translation of voltage in cameras is limited by the analog to digital converter, determining the dynamic range of the sensor and leading to differences in color grading between photos and videos. 14:08 Light is linear but our perception is not, so cameras use logarithmic gamma to compress highlights and expand shadows, limiting dynamic range without increasing bit depth. 20:15 CineD and Gerald Undone's focus on Imatest scores can lead to confusion, as in-camera noise reduction, raw format differences, and other factors can inflate dynamic range numbers, making accurate comparisons difficult. 28:17 Professional video cameras operate in 12-bit readout mode, with exceptions like Fujifilm's XH2S and Canon's DGO cameras in 14-bit mode, but the jump to 14-stop dynamic range comes with a significant cost increase, and camera choice for production is based on various factors, not just dynamic range. 33:05 Dynamic range in cinema camera design is a conscious choice, but the pursuit of ultimate image quality may be more theoretical than practical, with the focus on achieving a specific aesthetic rather than matching the capabilities of our eyes. 37:29 Understanding dynamic range is crucial for achieving a punchier image and mimicking our visual experience, with modern post-production techniques and lighting control being key in filmmaking. 43:19 Dynamic range in cameras is a creative choice, not a limitation, and the value of art and creativity cannot be reduced to technical specifications, as true art comes from simplicity and the quest for essence and truth.
Very interesting. Some nerdy details I already knew, and some I had no idea. That video is a lot of work. Thanks for that! ;) Regardless of all that, I do look at numbers (mainly CineD Lab Tests) when I'm looking to upgrade camera body, just to give me an idea, but I always judged DR by eye, based on my experience with the previous camera I owned. I also ALWAYS use a precise LogC conversion taylored to the sensor of my camera (Emotive Color), so all of the cameras I owned since 2017 had the exact same colors. That way, it's very easy to notice other aspects of your new image. Does it feel like I see more in the shadows when exposed for the highlights? When I switched from the GH5 to the BMPCC 6K, the extra stop of DR was VERY noiticeable. When I switched from BMPCC 6K to the Lumix S5, I didn't expect that much of a difference since IMATEST only showed 0.3 stop difference.. but i was wrong.. it was still noticeable in some shots, especially when shooting a very high dynamic range scene, like in the woods, where there are strong sunlight piercing the trees canopy and very strong shadows. From S5 to S5IIX, I haven't noticed any difference, since it's pretty much the same (0.2 stop difference based on CineD's IMATEST). We could also just say that most modern cameras have enough dynamic range to meet most requirements, that people should learn how to ''use/control'' their dynamic range instead of obsessing about the numbers. Camera manufacturers should now focus more on improving where it truly lacks, compared to the competition's equivalent. Still, we all dream of being able to shoot indoors with only natural light, expose for shadows and not having blown out windows.. and people aren't going to change until it's achieved. You can always blew them out in post if you want to. Not that there's anything wrong with blown out windows though. We're used to see movies shot on 35mm film, and there was still lots of blown out windows. They could have used ND gels, but they still choosed the embrasse the windows as speculars.. indeed as an artistic choice, and it can be beautiful/well desired. So I definitely agree with you... use your eyes and artistic sense, and just create! We absolutely do not NEED more DR that those affordable mirrorless cameras can offer in 2024, and even though I would gladly take some more.. I wouldn't replace my S5IIX for extra DR alone, that's for sure. Creating a clean highlight rolloff, smoothly fading to pure white, is extremely easy on ANY camera. You just need to taylor it to your sensor's response (where the highlights RGB channels start clipping unevenly). You simply desaturate this area and smooth out the top of the curve. Yes, you will technically loose this ''useless/ugly'' highlight data, but your image will look much prettier and film-like/Alexa-like.
I'm not an English speaker so I can't understand 100% of your video, but it was worth paying attention about an hour. Of course the conclusion ends with what everybody knows, but it's the thing that everyone can't achieve it. Thx for the great video.
Pure Masterclass here busting all myths with actual facts. If there was an Oscar for RUclips Camera Education category, then this video truly wins that!! Subscribed for ever for such content. Will surely support you sooner or later for your Arri Alexa :)
I'll admit, I was intimidated by the 58:32 runtime. Boy am I glad I decided to click and watch anyways. You crammed so much useful information into 1 hour! I subbed immediately and look forward to whatever you've got cooking in the future.
Amazing video, RUclips algorithm doing you dirty! I reckon this will only gain momentum. I sat through the entire hour and enjoyed it thoroughly. Subscribed, cheers.
btw for the xh2s the engineers state in an interview the xh2s is actually 14bit processing, but not readout. Not entire sure what the equates to ruclips.net/video/Dnjx7QHALIQ/видео.htmlsi=BBGWp4Tw9432x7RV
Great video! I really learned a lot. Love the facts. I hope your channel grows a lot! 😁 It would be great to see shorter videos from you, e.g. a series of videos about a topic instead of a long video. But this might be my own preference. 😊
This is my new favorite RUclips video of all time. F*@#ing fantastic work. Kudos to you. Deakins is at home in his living room giving it a golf clap as we speak.
Nice beginning, but around last third... Why on Earth everyone who actually get high end camera like FX3/A7S3 (it still insane out of most ppl price range) must spread "camera is nothing, you need lights, storyline, props, forget about dynamic range, shit 8 bit noise (that especially after youtube compression looks like paper banner 2 color crp), be creative ". Throw away your high end gear and try to be creative.
WOW!… I must be a level 4 nerd. Watched it all the way through on mute, and just reading the ccs, with Dave Brubeck trio jazz in the background. Gonna get rid of my Canon 5Dmk2, and get me an 8k Sweet Potato just like yours!… I see you!… Excellent work maaaan! Subbed 🙏🏿
29:20 The best part about this is possessing a Canon DSLR body with Digic 5. It records 14bit RAW video but only up to about 3.8MP/2.7K which is half of 4K resolution. It also possesses dual gain but that cuts the resolution in half (about 1.9MP/1080p)
WOW - what an impressively thought out and researched vid! Thank you! You could probably have made virtually the same point about resolution, lens aberrations, or even camera stabilizers. Really good speech about tech fetishes being more about procrastination and comfort than art.
good video. i agree the most important ingredient is the photographer/videographer but there is a visible difference in equipment, mostly lenses. the third ingredient is luck when talking about wildlife photography and landscape to some degree. photographers also like using their camera tool. fuji is very fun to use but not the greatest at autofocus which is critical for wildlife action shots.
Where to start:
Photons - yes there is shot noise in light but most of the problematic noise in a video system comes from the electronics. It's only when you get to extremely low light levels that the randomness in light starts to become a factor. Photon shot noise only increases by around 1/2 a stop for each stop you go down while the effects of read noise doubles for each stop you go down. So in the deep shadows the read noise from the electronics is almost always more significant than the shot noise.
The number of photons hitting a photosite during a typical exposure is not in the thousands, it will be in the 10's of thousands and the amount of photons needed to result in a full image well in a typical modern sensor is closer to 100,000.
Dynamic range from the top of the well can and often is manipulated. In a dual ISO sensor the full well capacity is increased by adding an additional capacitor for the sensitivity range, this shifts the sensitivity down by the image well now needing a lot more photons/electrons to fill the well. There is no reason why additional capacitance can't be added in other sensor designs to increase the highlight range of the photosite. But there are other bottlenecks such as the maximum voltage swing that the emitter follower can handle or limitations in the ADC.
The least amount of noise would come from sensor run much cooler than 40c. A cold sensor will deliver less noise than a warmer one. But it is very difficult to run a sensor below the dew point of the environment the camera is in without condensation forming. Additionally it would require a lot of extra power to actively cool a sensor to below the ambient temperature. So, sensors are typically allowed to run at at least 40c as it is easy to use variable speed fan cooling to maintain a temperature higher than most normal operating environments. Many cameras take the air that is used to cool the electronics and then pass this already warm air over the sensor to quickly bring the sensor up to a constant temperature. This is more electrically efficient than trying to use a peltier device to regulate the temperature. And the majority of cameras no longer need black balancing.
There are many ways to allow a 12 bit ADC to record a dynamic range greater than 12 stops. The source follower buffer between the image well and ADC can have a non linear response. The use of non-linear ADCs on CMOS sensors has been common for a long time as has the use of Floating Point ADC's. Sensor manufacturers are often very secretive about the processes they use, but there are plenty of well established ways to get a lot more than 12 stops from 12 bits. The 12 bits ADC can only 12 stops argument simply doesn't hold water and there are plenty of camera tests that prove this.
Where 12 bit is limiting is not the range of stops but the precision. Precision is important because you want to be able to record the sensor noise as finely as possible. If the ADC is too coarse, the noise will be coarse and separating the noise from the smallest stops becomes more difficult and as a result you get a poor SNR. A deeper bit depth would allow the noise to be recorded more precisely allowing for smaller lower stop levels to be discerned or used. So, a 12 bit ADC won't generally allow you to go as far into the shadows as a 14bit ADC. But the total Range may be the same. But there are a lot of other factors that affect noise such as screening and filtering, management of noise in the power supply etc, so why a 12 bit ADC will tend to limit the useable range and a s a result many similar sensor designs will perform very similarly it certainly isn't the only factor to be considered.
If you plot linear gamma using a log scale (stops) on one axis and a linear scale (code values) on the other then of course you will get a curve. Change the log stop axis to lumens and you will get a straight line. The reason your charts are counter intuitive is because you are mixing log and linear scales on the same chart.
Log gamma isn't almost lossless, it actually very lossy, don't mistake the concept of "visually lossless" with what is actually going on, with log huge amounts of data is being discarded, data that can never be recovered. And it's not just highlight data. Most log implementations use power law gamma up to somewhere around middle grey and then become log at middle grey. If they didn't have the lower power law curve at the bottom there loosy nature of log would result in insufficient mid range date for a decent image. Go up 1 log stop from middle grey and you only have half as much tonal information as you could have, 2 stops up and only a quarter - these aren't highlights, this is the mid range where skin tones etc are, even a normal power law gamma such as Rec-709 will give you more mid range tonal information than log (at the same bit depth for both). If you do work with high bit depth linear material you can see a difference in the highlight textures, especially if you are doing an exposure shift. Log is a fairly big compromise, it is very lossy.
I may not need more dynamic range, but I do need to see nerd level 4 now.
Haha I better get some more foil
Thank you @cameraconspiracies for recommending this video
@cameraconspiracies Thx for finding @shagral awesome video!
Monkey strength vs Nerd level! Let the games begin!
@@cameraconspiracies he said something good about the xh2s , buy it! haha
It comforts me that this video has only 1.4k views, because this proves that views and quality are unrelated. Amazing video!
Camera Conspiracy sent here,.... Definitely deserved more views, great video and a new subscriber 👍
That nerd sent me here too.
Welcome aboard!
Same here
Same here!
Same here!
I'm going to watch this whole video so that you get promoted in the algorithm. Love it so far!
Awesome, thanks ✌️
Dude!! This would be among the best video I have ever seen!! A creative person talking about the camera with such technicalilty with such depth, not shilling for any company, the humour in the video, DAMN!!
I just wanna say this. Please don't look at the views and feel discouraged. You got the potential to be an amazing storyteller!
An hour just flew by!! Please do make more videos! RUclips needs people who can talk technicalities of image capturing, but also touch grass and speak reality.
You just made my day amazing dude! Thanks for the 8 weeks of effort! Worth every minute (atleast for us lol)!!
Thanks so much for the comment! I'm very proud of the video, but will probably never make anything like that again, at least not purely on enthusiasm.
@@shagral Understandable. But the video is appreciated
This is the BEST video I've seen on the subject and deserves an award, seriously!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. I think it deserves some views at least :3
Recommended by Camera Conspiracies. Holy cow, fantastic video. I haven’t watched anything this informationally significant in a long while.
Thank you!
Dude this video is so well done. The amount of effort you put into this is astounding. Great work. Excited to see your channel grow
Thanks for the kind words! ✌🏻️
This video is so good, it should be the first video suggested for anyone searching for DSLR, mirrorless, cinematography, videography or anything related to video. Google should pin this to YT's main page. There are a lot of great videos, a lot, but none are close to how good is this one. Amazing work my man! 👍
thank you so much!
@@shagral Not sure if it was just dumb luck or you are actually a really smart and intelligent person but this video is good on so many levels that the challenge you are facing is being able to consistently come up with videos at this level. I imagine the production effort was serious so it would be stupid to think you could post weekly stuff like this but even if you post once every 3 months something at this level, you would totally rock YT. Honestly, it's the first video that actually blew me away and makes me want to like it 10 times and I've seen a million videos on YT. It goes very in-depth while at the same time being extremely relatable and not seeming like you are patronizing the viewers with your knowledge and yes, your funny moments definitely make it more enjoyable. Really, really, really good job man!
Actually, I'll ask - ballpark, how long it took to make this video?
It says right at the end of the video - it took 8 weeks
I would consider not counting on the actual Production & active Research - Time ... the real time you spend were all the moments you were thinkin where to start or how to put all that together. Thats way more than 8 weeks of 8 to 10 h days ....
All I can say is: very much Thank You for your good work!!!
This is one of the best videos on the topic. Hats off! As a VFX professional approaching hobby cinematography I quickly realised how the cinematic look was influenced by the limitations of the filmstock and the creative workarounds DPs came up with to manage the scene contrast before if was recorded. But it's expensive to achieve.
People these days think they can slap a LUT on a crappily lit scene and expect magic because 'dynamic range'... LOL
But i also realised the problems with uncontrollable saturated light sources when doing run-n-gun , namely street lights and car lights which have become much brighter due to LEDs being used.
thank you very much, finally a video where we are not trying to sell you the latest camera, with wider rims and chrome mirrors. very informative, no lame marketing, no "amazing revolution" or "game changer" or "you absolutely need it", I had forgotten that you could still get information on RUclips.
thanks again
Just randomly stumbled on this amazing video. No previous exposure to any of this stuff, but was riveted by the drama. Obviously I see parallels in other areas of life, human nature seems to mean we often obsess about the wrong things. Very well executed.
You can already get a 14-stop camera for under $10,000.... Get the Fuji X-H2S, then get a DJI Gimbal that solves the wonky IBIS, then get the DJI LiDAR addon that lets you autofocus manual cinema lenses which solves the lens ecosystem and sketchy autofocus problems. EZ.
Camera Conspiracy sent here. Amazingly detailed video.
Thanks!
Is this the best videography video you've ever watched? Yes... the answer is yes...
Thanks 🙌🏻
Definitely one of the most important video to watch for all camera nerds to escape all the marketing bs. We often chase the latest cameras with high chart scores and end up not using their full potential.
Thank you
I've been shooting for over 10 years now and i've never seen it all explained this effectively, I learned a bunch of stuff I thought I already knew too
Thanks, glad to have you here
This is without a doubt one of the best videos on the topic. Very thorough not just from a theoretical side but from a practical side as well. Absolutely criminal this doesn't have more views
Thanks for watching!
Totally agree with conclusions, great video. But objective DR tests prove your “DR is limited to the ADC” wrong, despite misgivings you may have with them. Manufacturers use compression at the analogue level and the digital level.
Also, if you know what you’re doing, you can capture nearly just as good at 8 bit.
Also, also, I have an Alexa hook up if you’re looking to shoot in the Sacramento area.
It is the best video about DR topic I've ever seen on youtube. Thank you for the good work!!! Please, don't stop!
Came here from Camera Conspiracies...
bruuuh... this video is insanely underviewed and underrated!!! What the hell man.. this was a delightful masterpiece of knowledge to watch.. thank you so much!
Much appreciated!
Bro the last third of the video was what the whole online camera community needs to hear. Well done!
Fun Fact: that motorcycle shot you used as an example from The Creator was shot on a Nikon Z6!
Yes I remember now, it was shot during the location scout for a proof of concept reel and ended up in the final movie
Edit: @owlbot didn't notice the user name at first. Hi Kenny! Love your Frame & Reference podcast, great work. Hope you enjoyed the video.
@@shagral Oh wow thanks man that means a lot. I absolutely did enjoy the video, you certainly put more work into making education fun than I do LMAO! Your production value is up there with the best on this platform
@Owlbot thanks Kenny 🙌🏻 looking forward to the episode with Greig Fraser. Hope he finally got himself a decent microphone 🤣
@shagral man you know the show, everyone's on airpods and then I do my best in post 😂
@ I find it hilarious that these top 1% of DPs can't invest a couple of hundos into a decent zoom setup. I mean they do these calls all of the time
Bravo! Probably the most informative and honest video on YT about video camera technology. Great illustrations and clever humor bits help retain the attention all the way to end. Thank you, look forward to more of your videos.
Thanks! Glad to have you here.
Fantastic work. This should be watched by everyone interested in digital imaging.
Thank you!
I learned more in this video than my last 6 months on RUclips, or even last year. Thank you.
Glad to hear it!
This is one of the best videos I have watched in a long time! I came in via what I thought was a click-bait title, because dynamic range interests me, but from a photography perspective, but this is no click-bait, but the real thing. Excellent job. Interesting and informative, I learned a lot. If I did anything meaningful with video, I would instantly subscribe.
I feel like I just went through therapy.... Really needed to hear. Great approach, and great message.
Every filmmaker should watch this video.
Unsurprisingly, I agree 🤣
finally someone who talks the very truth... it's been a long time I personally waited for an analysis like this one. My best regards
06:10 Tony Northup might want a word with you. He tested the images alone from equal size but different pixel count sensors. In all the cases higher pixel count sensor gave the more usable image.
What is usable? Link the video or state what he specifically meant by useable.
To crop?
Camera Conspiracy sent here
Another way to put it, the cinematographer creates the scene by controlling the light and the camera only captures it.
'Why do cinema productions with the most expensive camera use so many lights?'
99% agree, just a nerdy thing. The AD circuit can code DR into more or fewer bits. 12 bit does not need to code 12 stops. with fewer bits you start to mess with digital noise vs. shot noise, dark noise and AD noise. But strictly speaking, the coding is not 1 to 1.
You didn't have to go this hard. I already liked the video. But seriously, great job! It wasn't only delivering helpful information and facts. You synthesized those to give PERSPECTIVE! something we should all be looking for. Thank you for this.
Haha thanks! I wasn't planning to go this hard, it just sort of happened.
Just finished this. Wow man, i'm impressed at the quality of your. No youtube on this entire platform has even discussed all this and to the detail you have.
I managed to come to the same conclusions as you did. I use an old canon dslr with a 14 year old sensor and today I came to the most baffling conclusion which is it's dynamic range matches those of modern sensors. At first I couldn't believe it but switching from 14bit mode to 12bit mode made it fully apparent. About a stop or more of dynamic range loss sealed the deal.
It's actually crazy how similar cameras/video are to microphones and audio systems
I would have taken 2hours of this. Truly don't have words to describe what I just watched. But I laughed way more at the paradoxes than I should have 😂. Masterfully put together and also felt that inspiration at the end
Crazy good video so far. So glad youtube recommended it
Edit: just finished, and I want to say thank you. This was super informative and never lost my attention. I had to watch in separate sessions due to my schedule, but this was something that I actively sat down to watch and gave my attention to. Excited to see more of your work
Glad you enjoyed it!
Bit depth is not directly related to dynamic range. There is not a one to one correspondence between bits and each stop. The bit depth creates the total possible number of increments that can be assigned to the stop levels. So if you have 12 bits you have 4096 levels. If there are 13 stops, you can assign 315 levels(4096/13) for each stop. If you had a camera with 16 stops and wanted 315 increments or more per stop(16x315=5040), you would just need one extra bit(13 bits=8192 levels, 8192/16 stops=512 increments per stop).
Must watch video. Also a self help video for those with GAS. This deepest and biggest cutting through the BS of camera marketing I have ever witnessed!
This is a documentary on its own
Pretty much! Thx for watching ✌🏻️
This video is awesome! I feel like i actually understand all this stuff for the first time. Much appreciated
I learned a lot from this as a merely amateur stills photographer. Makes a mockery of some of the more nerdy camera reviews.
bro, I searched countless times what dynamic range is actually. watched many videos. your video never showed up. the most practical video I have seen about dynamic range
I'm glad the algorithm finally got it to you 👍🏻
This channel is going to be massive.
Great work! Also involved in video development myself. Good luck. The insight of this video is worth more than $50.
Thank you, I really appreciate the support 🙌🏻
i feel like there is a whole spectrum of its own within the world of computational photography and its dynamic range capabilities.
but as a standalone for a simple breakdown of most of the important factors of hardware photosensor equipment this was very well made and commendable
have a great day
Thank you!
Potato rig was amazing! Came here for information, stayed for the puns.
Some gems of quotable lines in this video. Great great stuff.
Glad you liked it! Potato rig was later consumed with some beautifully seared steak. Waste not want not!
@@shagral ;D
thank you, mate. this was really good. i would have been even harsher towards the end, so i appreciate how reserved you've been about the tech specs being the imaginary currency for people who so often have never and may very likely will never make a body of artistic work.
Agreed, but I do get the allure of tech, I think we should learn the tools, but it's so easy to get lost in the specs & comparisons and forget they're just that - tools.
@@shagral oh i'm absolutely with you; it's on us as technicians that also have creative vision to know about the skills required and how the tools work, but i simply worry that tech elitism has provided the platform for so many who have chronically avoid stepping up creatively.
Incredibly instructive, well researched and fun. It’s so useful. Give us a simple way to financially support this video, the insane amount of work you put into it definitely deserves it. Keep going!
Thanks for the kind words! Memberships & supers are now active on the channel. Alternatively there are links to paypal and crypto in the description. Thanks, I appreciate the support!
@@shagral examples movies in your video are just rubbish. I haven't seen really great movies
@@shagral not working, make sure you activate it in youtube studio
Weird, everything is "on" on my end. Just tested on another account and it works. Are you sure these are available in your region?
Highlights:
00:00 The camera industry has misled us with dynamic range numbers, but understanding technical aspects and addressing noise can improve sensor sensitivity and dynamic range.
08:58 The digital translation of voltage in cameras is limited by the analog to digital converter, determining the dynamic range of the sensor and leading to differences in color grading between photos and videos.
14:08 Light is linear but our perception is not, so cameras use logarithmic gamma to compress highlights and expand shadows, limiting dynamic range without increasing bit depth.
20:15 CineD and Gerald Undone's focus on Imatest scores can lead to confusion, as in-camera noise reduction, raw format differences, and other factors can inflate dynamic range numbers, making accurate comparisons difficult.
28:17 Professional video cameras operate in 12-bit readout mode, with exceptions like Fujifilm's XH2S and Canon's DGO cameras in 14-bit mode, but the jump to 14-stop dynamic range comes with a significant cost increase, and camera choice for production is based on various factors, not just dynamic range.
33:05 Dynamic range in cinema camera design is a conscious choice, but the pursuit of ultimate image quality may be more theoretical than practical, with the focus on achieving a specific aesthetic rather than matching the capabilities of our eyes.
37:29 Understanding dynamic range is crucial for achieving a punchier image and mimicking our visual experience, with modern post-production techniques and lighting control being key in filmmaking.
43:19 Dynamic range in cameras is a creative choice, not a limitation, and the value of art and creativity cannot be reduced to technical specifications, as true art comes from simplicity and the quest for essence and truth.
This is the best in-depth video on dynamic range followed by the one by filmmaker IQ. Thank you Shagral. You got a new subscriber.
Thank you & welcome!
Wow. A master class indeed and full of assumption busting truths! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Finally someone pointing out all that dynamic range comercial nonsense, thanks!
Now this is literally RUclips University! Thanks for the lecture professor. Subscribed!
Camera Conspiracies sent me here. Could not agree more that this channel deserves way more subs!
thank you & welcome!
thank you for this amazing video. So much information, yet so well presented. Loved it! Camera Conspiracies sent here.
Awesome, thank you!
camera conspiracies sent me..great vid and explaination
Finally. Finally somebody explains it how I’ve always wanted it explained. Hitting every minute point and detail. Bravo. 🙌🏼
Glad it was helpful!
Very interesting. Some nerdy details I already knew, and some I had no idea. That video is a lot of work. Thanks for that! ;)
Regardless of all that, I do look at numbers (mainly CineD Lab Tests) when I'm looking to upgrade camera body, just to give me an idea, but I always judged DR by eye, based on my experience with the previous camera I owned. I also ALWAYS use a precise LogC conversion taylored to the sensor of my camera (Emotive Color), so all of the cameras I owned since 2017 had the exact same colors. That way, it's very easy to notice other aspects of your new image. Does it feel like I see more in the shadows when exposed for the highlights? When I switched from the GH5 to the BMPCC 6K, the extra stop of DR was VERY noiticeable. When I switched from BMPCC 6K to the Lumix S5, I didn't expect that much of a difference since IMATEST only showed 0.3 stop difference.. but i was wrong.. it was still noticeable in some shots, especially when shooting a very high dynamic range scene, like in the woods, where there are strong sunlight piercing the trees canopy and very strong shadows. From S5 to S5IIX, I haven't noticed any difference, since it's pretty much the same (0.2 stop difference based on CineD's IMATEST).
We could also just say that most modern cameras have enough dynamic range to meet most requirements, that people should learn how to ''use/control'' their dynamic range instead of obsessing about the numbers. Camera manufacturers should now focus more on improving where it truly lacks, compared to the competition's equivalent. Still, we all dream of being able to shoot indoors with only natural light, expose for shadows and not having blown out windows.. and people aren't going to change until it's achieved. You can always blew them out in post if you want to. Not that there's anything wrong with blown out windows though. We're used to see movies shot on 35mm film, and there was still lots of blown out windows. They could have used ND gels, but they still choosed the embrasse the windows as speculars.. indeed as an artistic choice, and it can be beautiful/well desired. So I definitely agree with you... use your eyes and artistic sense, and just create! We absolutely do not NEED more DR that those affordable mirrorless cameras can offer in 2024, and even though I would gladly take some more.. I wouldn't replace my S5IIX for extra DR alone, that's for sure.
Creating a clean highlight rolloff, smoothly fading to pure white, is extremely easy on ANY camera. You just need to taylor it to your sensor's response (where the highlights RGB channels start clipping unevenly). You simply desaturate this area and smooth out the top of the curve. Yes, you will technically loose this ''useless/ugly'' highlight data, but your image will look much prettier and film-like/Alexa-like.
I'm speechless. Great work, much appreciated!
Thanks!
I'm not an English speaker so I can't understand 100% of your video, but it was worth paying attention about an hour. Of course the conclusion ends with what everybody knows, but it's the thing that everyone can't achieve it. Thx for the great video.
Thanks for watching!
Brilliant and highly informative video! Steve Yedlin would be proud! 🙂
The best videos on this topic I've ever watched. Thank you.
My pleasure 👌🏻
Pure Masterclass here busting all myths with actual facts.
If there was an Oscar for RUclips Camera Education category, then this video truly wins that!!
Subscribed for ever for such content.
Will surely support you sooner or later for your Arri Alexa :)
Haha thank you so much! BTW, I wrote my feature film, so Alexa needed asap 🤣
Why does this video only have 150+ likes. This was amazing!
One of the best videos i ever seen. Thank you cameraconspiracies
Incredible work, you need more views bro just keep it up and ur going to be huge much love
Thanks, will do! 🖤
I'll admit, I was intimidated by the 58:32 runtime. Boy am I glad I decided to click and watch anyways. You crammed so much useful information into 1 hour! I subbed immediately and look forward to whatever you've got cooking in the future.
Thanks for giving it a shot, I appreciate it 👍🏻
Esse é o melhor vídeo que já vi em toda minha vida sobre fotografia e arte. Obrigado e parabéns.
Amazing video, RUclips algorithm doing you dirty! I reckon this will only gain momentum. I sat through the entire hour and enjoyed it thoroughly. Subscribed, cheers.
Thank you, glad to hear that
Very very very very ve... USEFUL! Nice explanation, pure gold, excellent quality work, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
holy shit, this is so deep. deserves more views/likes. but sadly people don't care. they just want to point and shoot.
respect from nerdy gigachads
btw for the xh2s the engineers state in an interview the xh2s is actually 14bit processing, but not readout. Not entire sure what the equates to ruclips.net/video/Dnjx7QHALIQ/видео.htmlsi=BBGWp4Tw9432x7RV
Great video! I really learned a lot. Love the facts. I hope your channel grows a lot! 😁
It would be great to see shorter videos from you, e.g. a series of videos about a topic instead of a long video. But this might be my own preference. 😊
The best video on the subject I've ever seen so far.
Thanks!
ShagralUNDONE! I’m just happy to find this kind of channels.
Thanks! Welcome aboard ✌🏻️
This is my new favorite RUclips video of all time. F*@#ing fantastic work. Kudos to you. Deakins is at home in his living room giving it a golf clap as we speak.
Haha, thanks! I'm very proud of it. Shame the algorithm didn't cooperate this time, though.
Wow! What a great video!! Thank you so much for this detailed explanation!!! Keep up the good work :) (Camera Cons sent me here!)
Welcome!
Man! Thank you for making this video. Thank you somuch ♥️♥️♥️♥️
My pleasure!
Every video maker should see this video!!!!
whoa a camera tech video that is accurate understands the subject matter
One of the best RUclips videos I’ve ever watched. Awesome stuff
Thank you 🙌🏻
Nice beginning, but around last third... Why on Earth everyone who actually get high end camera like FX3/A7S3 (it still insane out of most ppl price range) must spread "camera is nothing, you need lights, storyline, props, forget about dynamic range, shit 8 bit noise (that especially after youtube compression looks like paper banner 2 color crp), be creative ". Throw away your high end gear and try to be creative.
A quarter in and oh lord. Nice content, man! Can't wait to see more technical and factual breakdowns like those!
Thanks! and stay tuned for more
Super cool video, can't wait to watch this later!
This is one of the best videos I’ve watched. Really well explained 👏
Wow, thanks!
WOW!… I must be a level 4 nerd. Watched it all the way through on mute, and just reading the ccs, with Dave Brubeck trio jazz in the background. Gonna get rid of my Canon 5Dmk2, and get me an 8k Sweet Potato just like yours!… I see you!… Excellent work maaaan! Subbed 🙏🏿
Thx & welcome!
This was extremely informative, thank you.
29:20 The best part about this is possessing a Canon DSLR body with Digic 5. It records 14bit RAW video but only up to about 3.8MP/2.7K which is half of 4K resolution.
It also possesses dual gain but that cuts the resolution in half (about 1.9MP/1080p)
WOW - what an impressively thought out and researched vid! Thank you! You could probably have made virtually the same point about resolution, lens aberrations, or even camera stabilizers. Really good speech about tech fetishes being more about procrastination and comfort than art.
thanks for watching ;)
Great video. Thanks so much for breaking down dynamic range in a clear explanation. Subscribed.
Awesome, thank you & welcome!
Great video! Perfect blend of new information along with the supporting data. It's the new standard for instructional videos.
Thank you!
Absolutely awesome explanation, great editing and animations too!
Glad you liked it!
How did this masterclass only have 8k views. What the hell?
Such an incredible video! Thank you very much!
Glad it was helpful, cheers!
good video. i agree the most important ingredient is the photographer/videographer but there is a visible difference in equipment, mostly lenses. the third ingredient is luck when talking about wildlife photography and landscape to some degree. photographers also like using their camera tool. fuji is very fun to use but not the greatest at autofocus which is critical for wildlife action shots.
Man, you are the hero. We love this video more than coffee 😅 great job, gonna check your band as well.
🙌🏻thank you!
Great video. Thank you so much!
Very interesting and educational. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. It is highly appreciated 👍
Thanks for watching!