This is one of those «spur of the moments” kinda videos. I was sitting around contemplating how much I enjoy Bonus Experience as a mechanic, and I figured that “Hey, I can make a video about this!”, so I did. I’d love to hear your opinions on Bonus Experience as a mechanic. Do you like it? Or dislike it? And why do you think it wasn’t brought back in any of the newer games?
I haven't had the chance to play the Tellius games yet, however I think it would be an excellent addition to the tools a designer can use to reward players in addition to the more typical tools of giving weapons or an extra cutscene for taking on additional challenge or completing certain objectives in a map. I think the most interesting mechanic that was mentioned was how green units give the experience they earn to you. That way even if all the green units die and you lose predetermined reward because of it, you can still salvage some experience that can buff your units so you can try to save green units the next time the opportunity presents itself. Also it lets helps let me justify using est archetypes more, so that's always a win.
Okay, you mentioned the possibility of tokens that you can steal from enemies to get bonus exp, and i instantly got an idea for what that token could be. Diaries. You could steal your foes diary and get experience from reading it. This could also help with characterization. Let's say, you have a generic chapter boss that only exists because the map needs a boss. That boss's diary could contain background information on that boss, like why they're fighting or what their personality is like. Also, the idea of an opponent walking up to you in the middle of a brutal battle, snatching your diary and reading it is hilarious to me.
So it's following the logic of the books that give extra skill but making it better. It sounds fun. They could also be used to explain certain things like why fliers are weak to wind magic/arrows or how magic works in the world. World building is another option
Well if they get rid of the infinite grinding that’s in the later games, then they should bring Bonus Experience back. I think they should only have one or the other. Not both.
@@MrKingONerds maybe have a difficulty mode. One where you can grind, while the other rewards you bonus experience. Easy let you grind, but you get none, if you play hard you cant grind, but can be rewarded bonus experience for accomplishing task that are hard
Grinding shouldn't be, and largely isn't, a part of later Fire Emblem at all. In 3H on hard or higher there's no grinding, which basically means it doesn't exist at all considering there's no reason to do aux battles on normal when you can probably beat the game without ever even using them or even using the monastery or even opening up the shop/battalion menu. Conquest doesn't have grinding which is part of why it's the best Fates gameplay wise. SoV's strength isn't gameplay and the grinding is part of that. Awakening I don't know but I assume there's a reason everyone prefers Conquest and it's not just the lack of Ambush spawns.
Absolutely, yes. See many modern fire emblem games have trouble creating "side objectives", adidtional things to be aware of outside of the main objective. They are either absent or in Three Houses' case, come in the form of a powerful enemy or monster you can try defeating for additional rewards. But again, most of the time these modern as well as pre- Tellius side objectives are rather straight forward: save village, get reward. Save character, recruit (other) character. In Tellius however these objectives come in the form of additional bonus EXP. This allows them to get much more creative when designing maps and objectives.
I wanna add something to your explanation of BEXP in FE10: Yes, Green units give their EXP they gained as BEXP, however, they only give exactly the same amount BEXP that they gained as EXP. And BEXP requirements scale heavily as a character levels up. Green units give you BEXP in the single to double digits, while you later on need BEXP in the four digits to actually level up. Look at the BEXP table you showed in the video for example: You gain 1400 BEXP for clearing a map and a measly 2 from friendly army fought. That's not even a single point of EXP for your units. My point is, there is no incentive to let green units gain any EXP, because you don't gain anything out of it. The BEXP they get you is completely irrelevant. If FE10 ever gets a remake, the Green unit BEXP needs to scale to their level. So, if a level 10 promoted green unit gains 10 EXP from combat, you get BEXP equal to whatever a level 10 promoted unit requires to get 10 EXP. Otherwise the BEXP from green units is completely irrelevant to the player.
fe12 drill grounds function fairly similarly to bonus exp, but it is a bit different. I posted a comment on this already, but I think it's a pretty well implemented mechanic and I am surprised to see it not mentioned in this video.
To play devil's advocate, those are remakes of games which have different philosophies based on the original. That being permadeath in mind, low growths, and weaker enemies. The latter two being so because if you play without resetting the enemies aren't as tough. And on the players end rewarding them for skilled play with stronger characters, but not enough that they can steamroll the game. Of course that's not always how it plays out but that's the idea.
Worth noting that Tellius lacks any Arenas, so they likely implemented it with that lacking common mechanic in mind. While I can see how it's exploitable, I feel that a roaming army should have the means to train and improve without risking their lives between heavy engagements. I think Dawn has the right idea by not letting it increase more than 3 points at any time, but I feel we can have 4 points go up and break even by just not being too generous with how much of it you get, and it would still mean a character is only ever gonna get half a perfect level up with it at most. As for character supports yielding benefits, instead of bonus exp., I'd rather bring an old mechanic back with how Genealogy of the Holy War went about it for example, where certain supports and certain talks with NPCs meant getting stat upgrades on the spot outright, which ought to reflect growth between teams even better to improve more on their specialties and cover for their weaknesses.
Perhaps a way to fix the 3 stats per level up is by making the player choose which stats they want to increase. Sounds broken on paper but is technically what people do on RD by using the bexp on units with caped stats. And at least now you don't hoard the bexp until the end of the game and it allows you to min max or fix unlucky level ups.
@@Greideren one way I've theorized is kinda complicated, but it's a pretty decent comprimise between late game abuse and total RNG imo. A unit's total growths are used for Bexp level ups. There's no constantly giving Jeigan three stat levelups or anything potentially stupid like that. Instead, say a unit has a total 325% in growths. Said unit gets 3 stats 75% of the time, and 4 stats 25% of the time. Then, stats are randomly chosen based on individual growths still uncapped. That way, Bonus Exp can consistently get low level units with good potential up to par with existent stat growth variation as well as stack out units with capped stats. (also make it so you can't use over a certain amount of BExp each time).
You touched on this somewhat in the video, but the main problem with BEXP as a mechanic is that it compounds a problem that most Fire Emblem games have -- that it's generally better to rely on 1 high level juggernaut to clear out the map, rather than using your full army. With BEXP, it generally makes more sense to dump it all on a unit like Jill so that she can solo the game, rather than spreading it out over many units. You mentioned some ideas that would help with this problem (like units only being able to receive 2 levels or so of BEXP per map), but another idea would be to impose a hard cap on the units that can receive bonus exp, that goes up each chapter. So for instance, on chapter 8, you can only feed BEXP to units level 10 or lower. But on chapter 9 it goes up to level 11 or lower, and so on. I've considered playing PoR with that ruleset before, though I'm not exactly sure what the cap should be. Maybe just the current chapter number + 2? But yeah, ultimately I like BEXP for being a cool way to encourage side objectives, and I'm surprised they never brought it back. But I like it much more as a mechanic for your low level units to catch up, rather than to make your already strong units stronger.
@@tena2013 I would be happy with those, but I still think a lot of changes should be made. There are a lot of subtle changes between PoR and RD (like Laguz being able to counterattack in their human forms) that I think should be consistent in both games if they ever port it over/remaster it.
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox if we ever did get a remake of RD I'd like seeing some improvements tbh. Like...less dawn brigade and more ike. But that's just me. I know a lot of people that done like the DB and I have to agree with them
I think it's funny how this feature is included in the latest Captain Tsubasa game, of all places. There you earn stat points based on what skills and playstyle you prioritize in a match, but you also get extra points after a match that you can put wherever. So even if you play a defender, you can still get really high offense or speed.
Whenever I play FE9 or FE10 I always look forward to approaching maps differently to get Bonus XP. I think BXP can keep people from approaching every map as a "Kill every last one of them" route meme. I really don't mind the "exploit" of FE10s BXP system. It's an active trade-off between aiming for optimal endgame units and immediate power. In most cases immediate power is more valuable than waiting until level 17 to gain three optimal levels. Your solution with the FE9 system also works though.
I really enjoyed bonus experience, I actually prefer the RD version as opposed to the PoR version but I think it would be nice to bring back because it's a good incentive to do more than just clear a map, kind of like the scoring in Advance Wars, it's not necessary but it feels cool.
Hello Mangs, In your leadership star video will you mention Yukimura? He actually has Leadership stars as his personal skill actually or a very similar concept to it. His personal Skill grants all allies on the battlefield +5 Hit if he's deployed.
I'd love to have it back again, its such a great substitute for grinding to make underleveled units catch up or further cap remaining stats when you're late into the game. It was also a great reward for clearing chapters in fewer turns or other objectives such as keeping allies alive or sparring enemies like in Geoffrey's chapter in RD as you mentioned. These kind of incentives make maps so much more engaging and unique, something the past few FEs aside from Conquest generally failed to accomplish in my opinion. Though I'd say I prefer BEXP as it works in RD, reaching caps on multiple stats is just too satisfying.
One thing that could also be quite interesting is a Training Ground type of Option in the Prep Menu where you can "buy" (be that with Bonus EXP, Manuals or just money) Training for your Units. Instead of just straight up getting exp however they could give you a +20%, 30% or even 50% exp gain boost for that specific unit for 1-3 chapters or so. This makes it so that you can't straight up go from level 1 to level 15 with BEXP, but still give your weaker units an exp buff to get on the level of your stronger ones
I like the way they handled drill grounds levels in fe12. instead of a guaranteed 3 stats, it uses the characters growth total. if someone has 375% growth total, they will get 3 points, with a 75% chance of getting 4, which makes it more rewarding for growth units, and it doesn't have the cap stat issue. For example, a unit with capped speed as a myrmidon can still level it with drill grounds, but it won't go up on the level up screen. However, it still goes up if you change to a class where the stat wouldn't be capped, such as promoting, or simply reclassing to something else. Also being attached to the drill grounds both helps and doesn't. It means weak scrubs won't be able to use this as much, but it also costs money and weapon durability. a round of the drill grounds usually costs between 500 and 1000 gold, and gives about 33 exp per win. You can get more exp if you go for a win streak, but outside of normal mode, you will have a hard time getting wins beyond the first round without rigging. That really is the biggest problem with this system though. Rigging, and ultimately I feel like that's why the mechanic hasn't returned. Of course they could do the fates lunatic mode thing, but they could also just give you a guaranteed increase in your highest growths, rather than using rng at all.
> It would only work if they took out the option to grind that newer games have > I did like it, as you could bring a new character up to speed with the rest of the party. Very similar to the way Xenoblade Chronicles 2 handled extra experience: If you did all the sidequests, you would quickly become over levelled, so they added Inns and Lodges where you could choose to apply your bonus experience and level up at your own pace.
Ooooooh, I like these ideas, especially on getting one free turn wheel charge! Gives you a reason to really think out your moves, but doesn't completely invalidate the mechanic. Three Houses had me starved for side objectives on the Golden Deer route (I wanted Claude's schemes to be a recurrent theme, but that's a talk for another time). I think we'd have to move back to a more linear Fire Emblem to really make it work, as if we can side grind like the last few titles, it just drops the incentive to try completely.
I like Chaz's idea where lower difficulties enable grinding where higher difficulties have morr limited or no grinding. It's not perfect but I like the general on paper idea. However, I'm also in the camp the series is becoming a bit "too rpg". By having grinding in the game, it influences how the overall game is designed. It's not the sole influence but it's one of the reasons Three Houses, for example, has enemies that scale to absurd levels making ironman runs virtually impossible. Or conversely using recently recruited units, which even then it lacks traditional recruitments.
@@korinoriz I wouldn't say 3 houses is impossible to ironman all you would have to do is train your replacements through adjutants and I also think awakening did a decent job with grinding on lower difficulties compared to higher difficulties because on higher difficulties the enemies are just to strong to reasonably fight and the rewards just aren't good in axillary battles also do you think 3 houses is designed around because I don't believe it is
I mostly liked it because it were connected with the story. It rewarded you for letting enemies live in certain cases, so inventivated you to play more accordingly to the narrative
I like your idea of meshing bonus experience with the divine pulse mechanic. I was thinking of maybe a threshold system to determine a penalty magnitude. For instance, first 2 divine pulses are free, 2 to 4 = -25% bonus exp, 5 to 7 = -50%, and so forth. I think this is a nice balance and gives you the option of using divine pulse in the presence of a misclick or unfortunate crit. However it could be implemented, I support these kinds of creative tweaks to spice things up a bit.
Ideas for BEXP that don’t necessarily need to be combined together: Promoted units cannot use BEXP to prevent just making one unit a god. Maybe make it a NG+ feature Maybe only have it available on lower difficulties to keep the higher difficulties more balanced I love bonus exp but it’s way too abusable in either state(fe9 or fe10) for harder difficulties in my opinion. I also like the idea of the fates level up system regardless of bonus experience. I think that’s just a cool design that gives the characters more personality instead of just abusing for level ups.
Another Game named Valkyrie Profile has a similar mechanic called "Event Experience" and allow you to award your characters with distributable EXP, and helps to cut the grind on fresh recruits. also it was exploited on hard mode(who sets unit default lvl to 1) since that game also has growth manipulation (and SP manipulation) ironically making the hard mode easier than the easy mode, that was the hardest one.
Lol that's funny. I love when hard modes end up being easier than the others for one reason or another (like making axes the best weapon in the game in RD since there's no weapon triangle in the hardest difficulty)
Bonus experience should come back along with more strenuous side objectives for each map. For example a survive x number of turns map with multiple tile locations the game wants you to defend. The more tiles you hang onto the more bonus experience you get.
I'm generally in favour of any mechanic in games that incentivises the player to do more than the bare minimum required to move on to the next section, like rewarding them with more EXP for playing faster or completing secondary goals or even just grading their performance. It keeps otherwise less challenging parts of the game interesting while not failing players if they're not up to the task, or imposing the more demanding objectives on to players who aren't interested.
I’m a very casual player so I can’t speak for those who dive deep into Fire Emblem. At least for me, bonus EXP really helps out so that I don’t have to grind as long with units who start out really weak, such as PoR Rolf or PoR Mist. Also, I would be able to help units catch up if I don’t use them in a chapter that would severely endanger them or they were simply unavailable. Without bonus experience, I might never use some units or they’d never become great units. I also feel annoyed with the idea of using reeking boxes over and over to grind levels in Awakening. I know that’s a vastly difference system but if I had to choose, then I’d go with bonus EXP. I understand what you mean in everything you explained and you had great points for the good and bad bonus EXP does. At least for me, I like it and in my last play through I barely used any of it.
Bonus XP was always nice and helped mitigate the easy mistake of accidentally overusing certain characters and that spiraling out of control. It also slightly frees up battle design if you think about it. If you have units on the map that part of your army is naturally better at fighting those good units then get tons more XP. If there's bonus XP, you don't have to worry about enemy composition making certain characters lag behind in levels. All in all, it would let you be more worried about making smart moves in the moment than smart moves for leveling everyone equally.
They could do a level cap so you cant bexp a unit past level 10 for chapter 6 for example. my favoorite part about bexp is when you forget it exists until the end of the game and dump it all on the elencia or rafiel to cap them.
I feel like fe10 was the best time to use bxp just because of the switching of what characters you can use. Future games had your characters consistent through the story so there wasn't too much of a need to catch up in leveling
Bonus Exp makes the Radiant games the most fun in the series. You can take a worthless unit and make them relevant in either game, though it's a bit more difficult in RD. The transfer mechanic from POR to RD is one I would also like to see introduced in newer games, as well.
Another thought would be to have a consumable item which you could apply to a unit during the preparations before a battle that would increase the experience that unit receives per combat/kill for the duration of the map.
One thing I don't think people think of (in Radiant Dawn) is giving characters experience up to 99 when you want a normal level up but still want to use BEXP. It just means that the first fight the unit is in next map is a guaranteed level up with the potential for more than three stat increases. I like the bonus experience, using it as a means of not fielding the same units over and over so they are prepared for the final battles of the game. I believe the game is best played by sending the appropriate units in on appropriate maps. With bonus exp, I have a reason in gameplay to do things that fit the story (rescue survivors, spare enemies, even use allied units) , and then I can use it however I want later. If I feel like doing a special run where I send only mounted units into the endgame, I can! If I want to make it a team full of priests and mages instead, I can! Send in literally just Dawn Brigade and Co. to fight the final boss? Absolutely! I don't have to bring them into every fight to level these units up, I can choose when to do that and when to give BEXP instead. And you can't just level a character up on BEXP alone, because then they will still have poor weapon ranks (unless they are laguz) and middling stats (unless they are... laguz... hmm...).
I think fire emblem is at its best when its giving you more varied choices to make to have your experience feel more unique and bonus experience is exactly that sort of mechanic.
I'm really not sure, it needs careful consideration. Another possible restriction is to make the max level you can get to with BEXP depend on certain factors, like how far you are into the game, or the average level of a certain amount of units or something. I got the idea from Fire Emblem Warriors, strangely enough.
At the very least it should be cool to have a mechanic that lets you send units that weren't deployed last map on patrol so they get extra experience and levels so they can keep up with your main army.
I especially like when bonus experience incentivizes you to play in unorthodox ways. The prison chapter and desert chapter from PoR become much more challenging and memorable if you try to meet their BE requirements. That being said, PoR gave you too much BE. You can trivialize the game by overlevelling a couple of characters with BE.
Bonus experience can make est-type characters viable, just for that it's good. But since they have a lot of levels to catch for. But instead of limiting the number of level-ups, setting a level-up limit based on how far you are into the game (like by chapters) to avoid over leveling (of course only for bonus exp)
loved this video. A lot of good points were brought up. The editing was super tight too. I think that bonus experience should be brought back, especially if we get another fire emblem game without a Jagen.
I would say path of radiance bonus exp with pre rolled level ups (as in all levels are predetermined when you start a new game). I would additionally do it so that there is a level cap that increases with each chapter. You can level past that cap with normal exp, but not with bonus exp.
well... I think that yes bonus EXP should be brought back just for old time's sake because I really loved it and I once had certain characters fall behind the recommended level cap and in the newer latest installment "fire emblem three houses" with it's installment newest mode of maddening mode... (in my own personal opinion, yes I know I can grind but I personally like the satisfaction of bonus EXP kinda like having an emergency reserve if a certain level is too hard...) I really felt that the game developers should have added it because it just skips a certain amount of levels...
One way I've theorized to balance BEXP is kinda complicated, but it's a pretty decent compromise between late game abuse and total RNG imo. A unit's total growths are used for Bexp level ups. There's no constantly giving Jeigan three stat levelups or anything potentially stupid like that. Instead, say a unit has a total 325% in growths. Said unit gets 3 stats 75% of the time, and 4 stats 25% of the time. Then, stats are randomly chosen based on individual growths still uncapped. That way, Bonus Exp can consistently get low level units with good potential up to par with existent stat growth variation as well as stack out units with capped stats. (also make it so you can't use over a certain amount of BEXP each time).
Hell yes they should. You should be rewarded to play well and bonus EXP is an amazing way to do it as long as you don't get broken and destroy the game.
The system of the newest fire emblem games allows you to grind with secondary battles so... adding bonus experience would be too much in terms of balance. However, if done properly, it could simply substitute the grind: we could be more motiveted to play and manage our resources better without wasting real time. I'd rather play "better" instead of play "more". It even makes sense: it's like a training at a military base.
Way to fix the exploit with Path Of Radiance Style Bonus Experience.... queue all the rolls for a character at the time the character is recruited... so that the level ups, while random, are already effectively set in stone, as the only manipulation possible would be to promote at a different level or do things that change growth rates. And you don't even have to save the whole array. you just have a seed. Edit: No I did not know that Fates already did this... lol.
Bonus XP is one of my favorite mechanics from the Tellius games. For one, it encourages map design to incorporate side objectives that can be rewarded beyond the usual bandit/thief with villages/chests. Even if you wanted a simple map with no real side objectives, it can serve as an anti-turtling mechanism. For two, it also allows many more units to be viable (though this could be up to FE9 just being a tad on the easy side). Whether it serves as a mechanism to catch up weaker units or snowball stronger units is ultimately up to the player, and this is true of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. The only downside is that Path of Radiance is far more inconsistent. You could dump it all on a single, already-strong character in Path of Radiance and have them carry the rest of the game for you, or you could dump it on Meg or Fiona to make them usable in Radiant Dawn (like I did in a draft once). There's no real right or wrong way to use bonus experience. Kind of like the argument for using stat boosts. You can use a Dracoshield to make somebody not get one shot, or you can use a Dracoshield to make a unit be able to completely ignore pegasus knights and myrmidons. Both are valid uses. It's also a mechanic that actually does feel like a bonus, and unlike villages/chests, it's not one that you would generally reset for (though I think this is a weaker argument that assumes a specific playstyle). I think it's fairly well balanced to reward those that are good at the game, without negatively affecting those that aren't as good. Not getting, say, 100 bonus EXP isn't nearly as bad as not getting a strong weapon/promotion item/stat booster (especially when the game tells you up front what you're missing out on). To that end, I think it's better that it only tells you Bonus XP after the mission. If they did tell you at the beginning of the mission, it probably would become something that is worth resetting for (especially if it gave you turn cutoffs).
Bonus EXP is best waifu. It was a way to encourage a certain approach to a map beyond story reasons. For example, that one chapter you showed, Geoffrey's Charge, has a narrative reason to try and avoid killing as much as possible. Giving the player an incentive to do the same is a good way to encourage them to engage more with the story and all that.
Keep radiant dawn's system but increase the XP cost according to the number of capped stats that the unit has. That way you have a bigger reason to use it on shit units but you're still able to abuse it on capped units, albeit at a bigger cost. Also, increase the number of master seals/crowns that you get during the game to allow for more early promotes since capped units will have a tougher time promoting with bonus XP.
I like being given incentives to push as well. Yes LTC play does exist, but in my mind if I didn't already plan out the entire game for maximum efficiency there's no point, and I don't enjoy playing FE competitively like going for the lowest turn count to do it. I like playing ironman and rolling with the good and the bad as the come to me, so adding more risk/reward options really compliments that way of playing.
Its good mechanic honestly i dont scum resets unless its literally blanks i dont think it matters if someone resets since pvp in fe has never really been a thing (fates pvp was a joke) if people are willing to reset for every level just to make a character they like extra good it shouldn't matter. I really dislike est in every game shes appeared in just because shes a large investment to make her good bonus id rather just dump bonus exp into a unit like that then just intentionally play around to make them "good". That being said i could also give the exp to units i like more and have more fun in the game. My best use of bonus exp has been to pull up low levels like mia to a point they are considered passable and not a liability and to patch up units i think are under performing. Theres lots of uses for it but i dont think it should matter too much with the levels if people reset that can be part of the fun.
As I'm playing through PoR right now, I'm really enjoying Bonus EXP and wish that it was in the later games. The reason why I think they didn't bring it back was because they introduced extra enemy encounters that allowed you to grind for EXP, so there wasn't really a need to have Bonus EXP. Personally, I would prefer if they removed the grinding maps and replaced it with Bonus EXP, because trying to beat CH 10 of PoR undetected was really cool and I thought it was a great way to spice up the gameplay, and I would love to see more of these bonus objectives/playstyles being used to gain a chunk of Bonus EXP in the future games.
Yes, because it allows for weak units that would join way too late to actually be viable (Est), without as much spoonfeeding. It also promotes efficiency and side objectives to get more, which can help players get better. It also lets players boost their personal favourites even further, if that is what they want to do. In RD's BEXP, it allowed for guaranteed stat levels, even with capped stats, so a lopsided unit could then level out and be a beast on the battlefield. I feel that it should be a mix of the two, not unlike FE12 in the drill grounds, where you get guaranteed stats equal to your total growth rates x100 (so 370% goes to 3 stats, with a 70% for a fourth).
I'd like a skill locked to a purposefully weak unit (wendy bad) that gives bonus exp for finishing off units. It could even have high growths and become est type units. It could be a cute buff for the archetype.
i loved Bonus EXP and i'd love to see it brought back i personally feel it shouldn't be easy to get the bonus i loved the old games were you made a mistake that was it restart or move on and i agree with the pushing forwards i'll fully admit if i had to face harder looking enemies i'd hang back and pick the weaker ones off first since there was never any reason not too. i'd love more rescue mission were you would get more exp for not being seen or beating a level with a low turn count or even getting bonus exp from gaining a certain amount of exp like to get in FE7 Genesis were you had a green unit who was strong mopping up the enemy units so they would hinder you or force you to move in and have more risk for the reward. Heck making most bonus exp gotten by gaining a certain amount of exp would be great it would force people not to only use level 20's
I really like bonus exp as a reward for doing challenges or non-direct things. could even go further since a lot of other games just reward gold or items for these things: give the player a choice of some bonus exp or gold/an item, if they do something challenging like a save a village across the map from a Brigand by turn 5.
I like your idea for bonus exp token and to add to that idea. We can make it so that the bonus exp token when used gives small bonus exp to the whole party so when distributing bonus exp to maximize the bonus exp start gain you have to spread out the bonus exp to everyone and cap it at 99% instead of dumping all of it onto 1 unit. This gives you incentive to play the units that are just a bit behind for some action so that you can get the most value but not completely game breaking. Also, maybe you can implement challenges in each chapter where you have to go out of your way if you really want to get the bonus exp token instead of just being a stealable. Almost like a small reward for those that chooses take on the challenge.
This might a weird but maybe you could bones exp when one of your units dies. It could something which bothered me for a while with redundant units: if they join fairly early and you dont manage to kill half of your army in the early game they never gonna be an replacement. A very good example would be characters like Ogier and Wendy in FE6. They are bad units from the start and the chapters after they join dont even have half the deployment slots you need to use every single unit in your army. Thus units like these have basically no function, because nobody would lose this many units in this short amount of time (and if you do the game might be to hard for you). Now imagine you run out of units mid or late game these early units wont help unless you had a way to level them up. Of course this needs to be limited but you could get back the equal or slightly less amount of exp an unit gained until their death which can now be spend on your weaker units and preferable only them. You could maybe make it flat out impossible to level up units who are close to a certain level depending on your chapter or they could just need an absurd amount of it. This way early replacement units have a function over they whole game as basically back up player ready to join the game when needed but having to use them instead of better units is still a punishment.
I was watching the latest Advance Wars video and thought that the system in it would probably fit well into FE. Like a turn limit, in which you would need to hold X amount of holds/castles, or just have more than the enemy. Give bonus exp for each holding over the X amount.
Three houses has weapon bonus experience, in a way. I like side-objectives in these games, but I think I prefer it when I'm rewarded with a weapon, a unit, or something like that. Bonus experience doesn't make a lot of flavor sense.
I think the bonus experience thing could be used like the arena from older games . Rather than fight ebenlies you fight your own army for bonus exp and level for both combatants . the thing is you have 3 chances for for each units to participate . what happens now is that you free training plot in up to 3 times but what happens if there one rounded? Well if you have a staff units they heal them back to full aftwr the fight but they can only help 3 times . if you one round one of your allies and can't heal them then there out of the next chapter . A different way to implement bonus exp wpuld be a limited amount of times you can use it which only grow the more the units gets stronger . A thrid option would be a bit evil . you can give units level caps or that bonus exp needs be be used the next chapter or it will be lost. I have no idea of this break the game or not but this is what I thought
It's an OK idea but the numbers needs to be significantly skewed towards boosting units that need to catch up rather than pumping EXP into already strong units, which tends to be the more optimal strategic decision
I know I'm late but a game that does bonus exp well is Symphony of War: The Nephilim Saga. In that game, you get level up tokens here and there and they grant a full level regardless of your current exp, and then sets your next level's xp to 0. However, the catch is that you CANNOT use it if the unit's current level is equal or higher than your army's highest level unit. Example: You want to use a token on your lord, but your lord's level matches or exceeds the highest level in your army. This would make bonus exp more balanced in my opinion, as it would be more used on weaker units instead of inflating an already inflated unit. Yes, it could still break the game, but not even close to how broken it gets in Path of Radiance.
I love bonus experience it allows you to use any unit you want and in iron man runs it allows you to patch your army up to fill in a spot I kinda wish it was it more FE games
So you should be rewarded for playing badly, but getting good RNs? That makes no sense. You're already rewarded by getting the good RN in the first place.
I wouldn't mind the existence of bonus exp in the next fire emblem as long as they have some mechanic like the school aspect or something else to do during a timeframe that isn't just fighting and you need something else to supplement the fact that you didn't fight, granted you can still end up not having any issues if you didn't fight and are getting SOMETHING out of it, not everyone could be for that sort of thing or maybe they wouldn't find that to be a fair enough trade off? (You have maybe 3 people gain a level in a weapon or magic and maybe learn a skill or get high enough to promote, they might not necessarily find that comparable to fighting a map and leveling some units, finding a few items and getting weapon and magic levels at the same time) I personally feel it's a nice preference and option as long as they don't have the bands in 9 (I don't know if they're in 10) I felt the pure control of your build and growth is boring and the fact that I don't even have to use a unit and can purely make them however I want with a band is not my playstyle
I think it was an excellent mechanic that should be brought back. With it most any unit can be viable, which allows for more replayability and less restriction on what units a player can and/or will use. A possible idea that could be implemented to prevent abusing it is making the game save itself every time you use it, that way you can't just reload your save if you get a bad or mediocre level.
I prefer bexp over grinding and I think raising caps keeping radiant dawn mechanic of 3 stats per level combined with insanely high 3 houses caps making abusing not as possible will make it balanced since you will not be able to force the weaker stats to grow as well and cap everything
I'd prefer a system similar to Echoes's party EXP but that scales based on how quickly you finish the chapter or fullfill side objectives (and that doesn't stop at 99 EXP but actually lets you level up). Can't be abused since it's spread among everyone, it lets players tackle chapters how they want (for example in a boss kill map, fast players that go straight to the boss would get more EXP from the bonus, while slower players will still get it by routing the whole map but with low bonus, balancing out the EXP for both playstyles and getting rid of the problem where many players still route boss kill maps just out of fear of missing out on EXP) and it incentivizes using a broader selection of characters. What this system would miss out on would only be the choice of who to give the EXP to, but personally I feel like that part of "favoritism" can still be heavily present in the game through the use of stat boosting items.
This is one of those «spur of the moments” kinda videos. I was sitting around contemplating how much I enjoy Bonus Experience as a mechanic, and I figured that “Hey, I can make a video about this!”, so I did.
I’d love to hear your opinions on Bonus Experience as a mechanic. Do you like it? Or dislike it? And why do you think it wasn’t brought back in any of the newer games?
Just a fyi the fates levels doesn't apply to conquest, conquest growth is resetable
The prologue is also the same
I honestly like it, really helps when you see a character you normally wouldnt use even if they look interesting.
I haven't had the chance to play the Tellius games yet, however I think it would be an excellent addition to the tools a designer can use to reward players in addition to the more typical tools of giving weapons or an extra cutscene for taking on additional challenge or completing certain objectives in a map.
I think the most interesting mechanic that was mentioned was how green units give the experience they earn to you. That way even if all the green units die and you lose predetermined reward because of it, you can still salvage some experience that can buff your units so you can try to save green units the next time the opportunity presents itself.
Also it lets helps let me justify using est archetypes more, so that's always a win.
i think it should be noted that three houses has a bonus exp system of sorts but it's not tied to levels it's tied to proficiencies
Okay, you mentioned the possibility of tokens that you can steal from enemies to get bonus exp, and i instantly got an idea for what that token could be. Diaries. You could steal your foes diary and get experience from reading it. This could also help with characterization. Let's say, you have a generic chapter boss that only exists because the map needs a boss. That boss's diary could contain background information on that boss, like why they're fighting or what their personality is like.
Also, the idea of an opponent walking up to you in the middle of a brutal battle, snatching your diary and reading it is hilarious to me.
That's a great idea!
Intsys hire this man
"Dear Diary, I think that commander for the enemy is hot. I sure do hope I don't have to kill them"
"Deer Diary, I made fun of Lysithea's age again"
Dear diary, the MC army is coming towards me, we're all going to die, I wish i was a recruitable character
So it's following the logic of the books that give extra skill but making it better. It sounds fun.
They could also be used to explain certain things like why fliers are weak to wind magic/arrows or how magic works in the world. World building is another option
Well if they get rid of the infinite grinding that’s in the later games, then they should bring Bonus Experience back. I think they should only have one or the other. Not both.
Facts
I'm in favor of getting rid of the grinding and I always loved bonus experience so I like this statement.
@@MrKingONerds maybe have a difficulty mode. One where you can grind, while the other rewards you bonus experience. Easy let you grind, but you get none, if you play hard you cant grind, but can be rewarded bonus experience for accomplishing task that are hard
@@thomask4538 wouldn’t that be a bit over complicated tho? (Along with confusing and overwhelming for newer players)
Grinding shouldn't be, and largely isn't, a part of later Fire Emblem at all.
In 3H on hard or higher there's no grinding, which basically means it doesn't exist at all considering there's no reason to do aux battles on normal when you can probably beat the game without ever even using them or even using the monastery or even opening up the shop/battalion menu.
Conquest doesn't have grinding which is part of why it's the best Fates gameplay wise. SoV's strength isn't gameplay and the grinding is part of that. Awakening I don't know but I assume there's a reason everyone prefers Conquest and it's not just the lack of Ambush spawns.
The bonus exp display is in path of radiance as well actually, but you can only see it on a 2nd playthrough onward, and like RD, it's off by default.
I was not aware of this. That's funny!
@@Mangs1337 Yeah I didn't know about it til like my 5th time playing the game lol
I think it depends on the version you're using.
Absolutely, yes.
See many modern fire emblem games have trouble creating "side objectives", adidtional things to be aware of outside of the main objective.
They are either absent or in Three Houses' case, come in the form of a powerful enemy or monster you can try defeating for additional rewards. But again, most of the time these modern as well as pre- Tellius side objectives are rather straight forward: save village, get reward. Save character, recruit (other) character. In Tellius however these objectives come in the form of additional bonus EXP. This allows them to get much more creative when designing maps and objectives.
I wanna add something to your explanation of BEXP in FE10: Yes, Green units give their EXP they gained as BEXP, however, they only give exactly the same amount BEXP that they gained as EXP. And BEXP requirements scale heavily as a character levels up. Green units give you BEXP in the single to double digits, while you later on need BEXP in the four digits to actually level up. Look at the BEXP table you showed in the video for example: You gain 1400 BEXP for clearing a map and a measly 2 from friendly army fought. That's not even a single point of EXP for your units. My point is, there is no incentive to let green units gain any EXP, because you don't gain anything out of it. The BEXP they get you is completely irrelevant.
If FE10 ever gets a remake, the Green unit BEXP needs to scale to their level. So, if a level 10 promoted green unit gains 10 EXP from combat, you get BEXP equal to whatever a level 10 promoted unit requires to get 10 EXP. Otherwise the BEXP from green units is completely irrelevant to the player.
Honestly, I'm surprised FE11 and FE12 didn't bring back Bonus Exp, considering their battle prep is based on Tellius'.
Doesn't FE12 have a battle prep arena?
fe12 drill grounds function fairly similarly to bonus exp, but it is a bit different. I posted a comment on this already, but I think it's a pretty well implemented mechanic and I am surprised to see it not mentioned in this video.
To play devil's advocate, those are remakes of games which have different philosophies based on the original. That being permadeath in mind, low growths, and weaker enemies. The latter two being so because if you play without resetting the enemies aren't as tough. And on the players end rewarding them for skilled play with stronger characters, but not enough that they can steamroll the game. Of course that's not always how it plays out but that's the idea.
Worth noting that Tellius lacks any Arenas, so they likely implemented it with that lacking common mechanic in mind. While I can see how it's exploitable, I feel that a roaming army should have the means to train and improve without risking their lives between heavy engagements. I think Dawn has the right idea by not letting it increase more than 3 points at any time, but I feel we can have 4 points go up and break even by just not being too generous with how much of it you get, and it would still mean a character is only ever gonna get half a perfect level up with it at most. As for character supports yielding benefits, instead of bonus exp., I'd rather bring an old mechanic back with how Genealogy of the Holy War went about it for example, where certain supports and certain talks with NPCs meant getting stat upgrades on the spot outright, which ought to reflect growth between teams even better to improve more on their specialties and cover for their weaknesses.
Perhaps a way to fix the 3 stats per level up is by making the player choose which stats they want to increase. Sounds broken on paper but is technically what people do on RD by using the bexp on units with caped stats. And at least now you don't hoard the bexp until the end of the game and it allows you to min max or fix unlucky level ups.
@@Greideren one way I've theorized is kinda complicated, but it's a pretty decent comprimise between late game abuse and total RNG imo.
A unit's total growths are used for Bexp level ups. There's no constantly giving Jeigan three stat levelups or anything potentially stupid like that. Instead, say a unit has a total 325% in growths. Said unit gets 3 stats 75% of the time, and 4 stats 25% of the time. Then, stats are randomly chosen based on individual growths still uncapped. That way, Bonus Exp can consistently get low level units with good potential up to par with existent stat growth variation as well as stack out units with capped stats. (also make it so you can't use over a certain amount of BExp each time).
You touched on this somewhat in the video, but the main problem with BEXP as a mechanic is that it compounds a problem that most Fire Emblem games have -- that it's generally better to rely on 1 high level juggernaut to clear out the map, rather than using your full army. With BEXP, it generally makes more sense to dump it all on a unit like Jill so that she can solo the game, rather than spreading it out over many units.
You mentioned some ideas that would help with this problem (like units only being able to receive 2 levels or so of BEXP per map), but another idea would be to impose a hard cap on the units that can receive bonus exp, that goes up each chapter. So for instance, on chapter 8, you can only feed BEXP to units level 10 or lower. But on chapter 9 it goes up to level 11 or lower, and so on. I've considered playing PoR with that ruleset before, though I'm not exactly sure what the cap should be. Maybe just the current chapter number + 2?
But yeah, ultimately I like BEXP for being a cool way to encourage side objectives, and I'm surprised they never brought it back. But I like it much more as a mechanic for your low level units to catch up, rather than to make your already strong units stronger.
Should bonus experience be brought back? Yes, along with a tellius remake.
Hell yeah, Let's go! Tellius Remake 2021!
I would be SO DOWN for a Tellius remake, maybe a 2 for 1 for the Switch??
Not remake, just a remaster port...and a sequel
@@tena2013 I would be happy with those, but I still think a lot of changes should be made. There are a lot of subtle changes between PoR and RD (like Laguz being able to counterattack in their human forms) that I think should be consistent in both games if they ever port it over/remaster it.
@@Yuni-is-Schrodingers-Fox if we ever did get a remake of RD I'd like seeing some improvements tbh. Like...less dawn brigade and more ike. But that's just me. I know a lot of people that done like the DB and I have to agree with them
I think it's funny how this feature is included in the latest Captain Tsubasa game, of all places. There you earn stat points based on what skills and playstyle you prioritize in a match, but you also get extra points after a match that you can put wherever. So even if you play a defender, you can still get really high offense or speed.
Whenever I play FE9 or FE10 I always look forward to approaching maps differently to get Bonus XP. I think BXP can keep people from approaching every map as a "Kill every last one of them" route meme.
I really don't mind the "exploit" of FE10s BXP system. It's an active trade-off between aiming for optimal endgame units and immediate power. In most cases immediate power is more valuable than waiting until level 17 to gain three optimal levels. Your solution with the FE9 system also works though.
I really enjoyed bonus experience, I actually prefer the RD version as opposed to the PoR version but I think it would be nice to bring back because it's a good incentive to do more than just clear a map, kind of like the scoring in Advance Wars, it's not necessary but it feels cool.
Hello Mangs, In your leadership star video will you mention Yukimura?
He actually has Leadership stars as his personal skill actually or a very similar concept to it.
His personal Skill grants all allies on the battlefield +5 Hit if he's deployed.
I like that the Danganronpa soundtrack seems like it’s going to be a norm as far as background music.
YES! :D
Thaaaaats nice!
Thank the gods I started playing it, or I would have been left confused for the entire video.
I'd love to have it back again, its such a great substitute for grinding to make underleveled units catch up or further cap remaining stats when you're late into the game.
It was also a great reward for clearing chapters in fewer turns or other objectives such as keeping allies alive or sparring enemies like in Geoffrey's chapter in RD as you mentioned.
These kind of incentives make maps so much more engaging and unique, something the past few FEs aside from Conquest generally failed to accomplish in my opinion.
Though I'd say I prefer BEXP as it works in RD, reaching caps on multiple stats is just too satisfying.
One thing that could also be quite interesting is a Training Ground type of Option in the Prep Menu where you can "buy" (be that with Bonus EXP, Manuals or just money) Training for your Units. Instead of just straight up getting exp however they could give you a +20%, 30% or even 50% exp gain boost for that specific unit for 1-3 chapters or so. This makes it so that you can't straight up go from level 1 to level 15 with BEXP, but still give your weaker units an exp buff to get on the level of your stronger ones
I like the way they handled drill grounds levels in fe12. instead of a guaranteed 3 stats, it uses the characters growth total. if someone has 375% growth total, they will get 3 points, with a 75% chance of getting 4, which makes it more rewarding for growth units, and it doesn't have the cap stat issue. For example, a unit with capped speed as a myrmidon can still level it with drill grounds, but it won't go up on the level up screen. However, it still goes up if you change to a class where the stat wouldn't be capped, such as promoting, or simply reclassing to something else.
Also being attached to the drill grounds both helps and doesn't. It means weak scrubs won't be able to use this as much, but it also costs money and weapon durability. a round of the drill grounds usually costs between 500 and 1000 gold, and gives about 33 exp per win. You can get more exp if you go for a win streak, but outside of normal mode, you will have a hard time getting wins beyond the first round without rigging. That really is the biggest problem with this system though. Rigging, and ultimately I feel like that's why the mechanic hasn't returned. Of course they could do the fates lunatic mode thing, but they could also just give you a guaranteed increase in your highest growths, rather than using rng at all.
> It would only work if they took out the option to grind that newer games have
> I did like it, as you could bring a new character up to speed with the rest of the party. Very similar to the way Xenoblade Chronicles 2 handled extra experience: If you did all the sidequests, you would quickly become over levelled, so they added Inns and Lodges where you could choose to apply your bonus experience and level up at your own pace.
In RD you can always BEXP your low-level units to 99 EXP, so they level up in battle and gain more than 3 stats
Ooooooh, I like these ideas, especially on getting one free turn wheel charge! Gives you a reason to really think out your moves, but doesn't completely invalidate the mechanic. Three Houses had me starved for side objectives on the Golden Deer route (I wanted Claude's schemes to be a recurrent theme, but that's a talk for another time).
I think we'd have to move back to a more linear Fire Emblem to really make it work, as if we can side grind like the last few titles, it just drops the incentive to try completely.
Telleus has no paralogs or grinding so bonus exp is to supplement this to lack of exp in maps so if there is no grinding I could see it coming back
I like Chaz's idea where lower difficulties enable grinding where higher difficulties have morr limited or no grinding. It's not perfect but I like the general on paper idea.
However, I'm also in the camp the series is becoming a bit "too rpg". By having grinding in the game, it influences how the overall game is designed. It's not the sole influence but it's one of the reasons Three Houses, for example, has enemies that scale to absurd levels making ironman runs virtually impossible. Or conversely using recently recruited units, which even then it lacks traditional recruitments.
@@korinoriz I wouldn't say 3 houses is impossible to ironman all you would have to do is train your replacements through adjutants and I also think awakening did a decent job with grinding on lower difficulties compared to higher difficulties because on higher difficulties the enemies are just to strong to reasonably fight and the rewards just aren't good in axillary battles also do you think 3 houses is designed around because I don't believe it is
I mostly liked it because it were connected with the story. It rewarded you for letting enemies live in certain cases, so inventivated you to play more accordingly to the narrative
I like your idea of meshing bonus experience with the divine pulse mechanic. I was thinking of maybe a threshold system to determine a penalty magnitude. For instance, first 2 divine pulses are free, 2 to 4 = -25% bonus exp, 5 to 7 = -50%, and so forth. I think this is a nice balance and gives you the option of using divine pulse in the presence of a misclick or unfortunate crit. However it could be implemented, I support these kinds of creative tweaks to spice things up a bit.
Ideas for BEXP that don’t necessarily need to be combined together:
Promoted units cannot use BEXP to prevent just making one unit a god.
Maybe make it a NG+ feature
Maybe only have it available on lower difficulties to keep the higher difficulties more balanced
I love bonus exp but it’s way too abusable in either state(fe9 or fe10) for harder difficulties in my opinion.
I also like the idea of the fates level up system regardless of bonus experience. I think that’s just a cool design that gives the characters more personality instead of just abusing for level ups.
Using Box 15 was a good choice, smooth jazz like that fits these kind of videos realy well.
Another Game named Valkyrie Profile has a similar mechanic called "Event Experience" and allow you to award your characters with distributable EXP, and helps to cut the grind on fresh recruits. also it was exploited on hard mode(who sets unit default lvl to 1) since that game also has growth manipulation (and SP manipulation) ironically making the hard mode easier than the easy mode, that was the hardest one.
Lol that's funny. I love when hard modes end up being easier than the others for one reason or another (like making axes the best weapon in the game in RD since there's no weapon triangle in the hardest difficulty)
Bonus experience should come back along with more strenuous side objectives for each map. For example a survive x number of turns map with multiple tile locations the game wants you to defend. The more tiles you hang onto the more bonus experience you get.
It would help out a lot in 3H especially for recruited students that rejoin late like Ashe and Lorenz.
Students you recruit late in 3H have high levels though. The drawback of late recruitment is that their weapon levels aren't modal
3H would be the worst to put it in since all the extra aux maps, they should just gut the aux maps and add it in every chapter then
I'm generally in favour of any mechanic in games that incentivises the player to do more than the bare minimum required to move on to the next section, like rewarding them with more EXP for playing faster or completing secondary goals or even just grading their performance. It keeps otherwise less challenging parts of the game interesting while not failing players if they're not up to the task, or imposing the more demanding objectives on to players who aren't interested.
I’m a very casual player so I can’t speak for those who dive deep into Fire Emblem.
At least for me, bonus EXP really helps out so that I don’t have to grind as long with units who start out really weak, such as PoR Rolf or PoR Mist. Also, I would be able to help units catch up if I don’t use them in a chapter that would severely endanger them or they were simply unavailable. Without bonus experience, I might never use some units or they’d never become great units. I also feel annoyed with the idea of using reeking boxes over and over to grind levels in Awakening. I know that’s a vastly difference system but if I had to choose, then I’d go with bonus EXP.
I understand what you mean in everything you explained and you had great points for the good and bad bonus EXP does. At least for me, I like it and in my last play through I barely used any of it.
Bonus XP was always nice and helped mitigate the easy mistake of accidentally overusing certain characters and that spiraling out of control. It also slightly frees up battle design if you think about it. If you have units on the map that part of your army is naturally better at fighting those good units then get tons more XP. If there's bonus XP, you don't have to worry about enemy composition making certain characters lag behind in levels. All in all, it would let you be more worried about making smart moves in the moment than smart moves for leveling everyone equally.
They could do a level cap so you cant bexp a unit past level 10 for chapter 6 for example. my favoorite part about bexp is when you forget it exists until the end of the game and dump it all on the elencia or rafiel to cap them.
I feel like fe10 was the best time to use bxp just because of the switching of what characters you can use. Future games had your characters consistent through the story so there wasn't too much of a need to catch up in leveling
Bonus Exp makes the Radiant games the most fun in the series. You can take a worthless unit and make them relevant in either game, though it's a bit more difficult in RD. The transfer mechanic from POR to RD is one I would also like to see introduced in newer games, as well.
In RD i didnt even bother giving full level ups. Just gave 99 exp, unless i had a laguz in which case dump hours
Another thought would be to have a consumable item which you could apply to a unit during the preparations before a battle that would increase the experience that unit receives per combat/kill for the duration of the map.
I've barely started the video and BOX 15 is playing. Clearly a man of culture.
Short answer in my opinion: yes
Yes it definitely should. This is better than stalling around and grinding
One thing I don't think people think of (in Radiant Dawn) is giving characters experience up to 99 when you want a normal level up but still want to use BEXP. It just means that the first fight the unit is in next map is a guaranteed level up with the potential for more than three stat increases.
I like the bonus experience, using it as a means of not fielding the same units over and over so they are prepared for the final battles of the game. I believe the game is best played by sending the appropriate units in on appropriate maps. With bonus exp, I have a reason in gameplay to do things that fit the story (rescue survivors, spare enemies, even use allied units) , and then I can use it however I want later. If I feel like doing a special run where I send only mounted units into the endgame, I can! If I want to make it a team full of priests and mages instead, I can! Send in literally just Dawn Brigade and Co. to fight the final boss? Absolutely! I don't have to bring them into every fight to level these units up, I can choose when to do that and when to give BEXP instead. And you can't just level a character up on BEXP alone, because then they will still have poor weapon ranks (unless they are laguz) and middling stats (unless they are... laguz... hmm...).
I think fire emblem is at its best when its giving you more varied choices to make to have your experience feel more unique and bonus experience is exactly that sort of mechanic.
I'm really not sure, it needs careful consideration.
Another possible restriction is to make the max level you can get to with BEXP depend on certain factors, like how far you are into the game, or the average level of a certain amount of units or something. I got the idea from Fire Emblem Warriors, strangely enough.
The extra experience for certain objectives creates little side missions that really spice up some chapters.
At the very least it should be cool to have a mechanic that lets you send units that weren't deployed last map on patrol so they get extra experience and levels so they can keep up with your main army.
I especially like when bonus experience incentivizes you to play in unorthodox ways. The prison chapter and desert chapter from PoR become much more challenging and memorable if you try to meet their BE requirements. That being said, PoR gave you too much BE. You can trivialize the game by overlevelling a couple of characters with BE.
Bonus experience can make est-type characters viable, just for that it's good. But since they have a lot of levels to catch for. But instead of limiting the number of level-ups, setting a level-up limit based on how far you are into the game (like by chapters) to avoid over leveling (of course only for bonus exp)
I think Radiant Dawn Bonus experience is the more balanced of all, and if brought back, should be that one
loved this video. A lot of good points were brought up. The editing was super tight too. I think that bonus experience should be brought back, especially if we get another fire emblem game without a Jagen.
I would say path of radiance bonus exp with pre rolled level ups (as in all levels are predetermined when you start a new game). I would additionally do it so that there is a level cap that increases with each chapter. You can level past that cap with normal exp, but not with bonus exp.
Bonus EXP and being able to level up into a promotion are two mechanics I miss dearly
well... I think that yes bonus EXP should be brought back just for old time's sake because I really loved it and I once had certain characters fall behind the recommended level cap and in the newer latest installment "fire emblem three houses" with it's installment newest mode of maddening mode...
(in my own personal opinion, yes I know I can grind but I personally like the satisfaction of bonus EXP kinda like having an emergency reserve if a certain level is too hard...)
I really felt that the game developers should have added it because it just skips a certain amount of levels...
trying to beat maps as fast as possible in the tellius games for maximum bonus exp is half the fun I hope they bring it back to the series eventually
You know, if anything, Fire Emblem Heroes has Bonus Experience implemented in the form of Crystals, so the mechanic is not completely dead.
Not a mechanic but in Fe4 each army had like a flag or logo and its own theme and honestly thats super cool.
One way I've theorized to balance BEXP is kinda complicated, but it's a pretty decent compromise between late game abuse and total RNG imo.
A unit's total growths are used for Bexp level ups. There's no constantly giving Jeigan three stat levelups or anything potentially stupid like that. Instead, say a unit has a total 325% in growths. Said unit gets 3 stats 75% of the time, and 4 stats 25% of the time. Then, stats are randomly chosen based on individual growths still uncapped. That way, Bonus Exp can consistently get low level units with good potential up to par with existent stat growth variation as well as stack out units with capped stats. (also make it so you can't use over a certain amount of BEXP each time).
Hell yes they should. You should be rewarded to play well and bonus EXP is an amazing way to do it as long as you don't get broken and destroy the game.
The system of the newest fire emblem games allows you to grind with secondary battles so... adding bonus experience would be too much in terms of balance.
However, if done properly, it could simply substitute the grind: we could be more motiveted to play and manage our resources better without wasting real time.
I'd rather play "better" instead of play "more".
It even makes sense: it's like a training at a military base.
only if its not gonna be spent correctly by our egg on video for our amusement
Way to fix the exploit with Path Of Radiance Style Bonus Experience.... queue all the rolls for a character at the time the character is recruited... so that the level ups, while random, are already effectively set in stone, as the only manipulation possible would be to promote at a different level or do things that change growth rates. And you don't even have to save the whole array. you just have a seed.
Edit: No I did not know that Fates already did this... lol.
Bonus XP is one of my favorite mechanics from the Tellius games. For one, it encourages map design to incorporate side objectives that can be rewarded beyond the usual bandit/thief with villages/chests. Even if you wanted a simple map with no real side objectives, it can serve as an anti-turtling mechanism. For two, it also allows many more units to be viable (though this could be up to FE9 just being a tad on the easy side).
Whether it serves as a mechanism to catch up weaker units or snowball stronger units is ultimately up to the player, and this is true of Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. The only downside is that Path of Radiance is far more inconsistent. You could dump it all on a single, already-strong character in Path of Radiance and have them carry the rest of the game for you, or you could dump it on Meg or Fiona to make them usable in Radiant Dawn (like I did in a draft once). There's no real right or wrong way to use bonus experience. Kind of like the argument for using stat boosts. You can use a Dracoshield to make somebody not get one shot, or you can use a Dracoshield to make a unit be able to completely ignore pegasus knights and myrmidons. Both are valid uses.
It's also a mechanic that actually does feel like a bonus, and unlike villages/chests, it's not one that you would generally reset for (though I think this is a weaker argument that assumes a specific playstyle). I think it's fairly well balanced to reward those that are good at the game, without negatively affecting those that aren't as good. Not getting, say, 100 bonus EXP isn't nearly as bad as not getting a strong weapon/promotion item/stat booster (especially when the game tells you up front what you're missing out on). To that end, I think it's better that it only tells you Bonus XP after the mission. If they did tell you at the beginning of the mission, it probably would become something that is worth resetting for (especially if it gave you turn cutoffs).
Bonus EXP is best waifu. It was a way to encourage a certain approach to a map beyond story reasons. For example, that one chapter you showed, Geoffrey's Charge, has a narrative reason to try and avoid killing as much as possible. Giving the player an incentive to do the same is a good way to encourage them to engage more with the story and all that.
These mechanical discussions are my favorite. You give great takes.
Keep radiant dawn's system but increase the XP cost according to the number of capped stats that the unit has. That way you have a bigger reason to use it on shit units but you're still able to abuse it on capped units, albeit at a bigger cost.
Also, increase the number of master seals/crowns that you get during the game to allow for more early promotes since capped units will have a tougher time promoting with bonus XP.
Just bring back the whole base prep phase from PoR and RD. Some of the best features of those games.but yes bonus experience is great
I always thought bonus exp was a good thing in the games it actually felt like you can just help your army rather than rely on enemies for exp
I like being given incentives to push as well. Yes LTC play does exist, but in my mind if I didn't already plan out the entire game for maximum efficiency there's no point, and I don't enjoy playing FE competitively like going for the lowest turn count to do it. I like playing ironman and rolling with the good and the bad as the come to me, so adding more risk/reward options really compliments that way of playing.
Its good mechanic honestly i dont scum resets unless its literally blanks i dont think it matters if someone resets since pvp in fe has never really been a thing (fates pvp was a joke) if people are willing to reset for every level just to make a character they like extra good it shouldn't matter. I really dislike est in every game shes appeared in just because shes a large investment to make her good bonus id rather just dump bonus exp into a unit like that then just intentionally play around to make them "good". That being said i could also give the exp to units i like more and have more fun in the game. My best use of bonus exp has been to pull up low levels like mia to a point they are considered passable and not a liability and to patch up units i think are under performing. Theres lots of uses for it but i dont think it should matter too much with the levels if people reset that can be part of the fun.
As I'm playing through PoR right now, I'm really enjoying Bonus EXP and wish that it was in the later games. The reason why I think they didn't bring it back was because they introduced extra enemy encounters that allowed you to grind for EXP, so there wasn't really a need to have Bonus EXP. Personally, I would prefer if they removed the grinding maps and replaced it with Bonus EXP, because trying to beat CH 10 of PoR undetected was really cool and I thought it was a great way to spice up the gameplay, and I would love to see more of these bonus objectives/playstyles being used to gain a chunk of Bonus EXP in the future games.
Yes, because it allows for weak units that would join way too late to actually be viable (Est), without as much spoonfeeding. It also promotes efficiency and side objectives to get more, which can help players get better. It also lets players boost their personal favourites even further, if that is what they want to do. In RD's BEXP, it allowed for guaranteed stat levels, even with capped stats, so a lopsided unit could then level out and be a beast on the battlefield. I feel that it should be a mix of the two, not unlike FE12 in the drill grounds, where you get guaranteed stats equal to your total growth rates x100 (so 370% goes to 3 stats, with a 70% for a fourth).
I like that now that youve played danganronpa, youre using danganronpa music
I'd like a skill locked to a purposefully weak unit (wendy bad) that gives bonus exp for finishing off units. It could even have high growths and become est type units. It could be a cute buff for the archetype.
It already exists, it's called Paragon
@@maxthemagelord5757 you can give this earned bonus exp to other units. unlike paragon where it only boosts your exp.
i loved Bonus EXP and i'd love to see it brought back i personally feel it shouldn't be easy to get the bonus i loved the old games were you made a mistake that was it restart or move on and i agree with the pushing forwards i'll fully admit if i had to face harder looking enemies i'd hang back and pick the weaker ones off first since there was never any reason not too. i'd love more rescue mission were you would get more exp for not being seen or beating a level with a low turn count or even getting bonus exp from gaining a certain amount of exp like to get in FE7 Genesis were you had a green unit who was strong mopping up the enemy units so they would hinder you or force you to move in and have more risk for the reward.
Heck making most bonus exp gotten by gaining a certain amount of exp would be great it would force people not to only use level 20's
I like the idea of either hoarding it for one unit or put me over the precipice to upgrade multiple units.
I really like bonus exp as a reward for doing challenges or non-direct things. could even go further since a lot of other games just reward gold or items for these things: give the player a choice of some bonus exp or gold/an item, if they do something challenging like a save a village across the map from a Brigand by turn 5.
I like your idea for bonus exp token and to add to that idea.
We can make it so that the bonus exp token when used gives small bonus exp to the whole party so when distributing bonus exp to maximize the bonus exp start gain you have to spread out the bonus exp to everyone and cap it at 99% instead of dumping all of it onto 1 unit.
This gives you incentive to play the units that are just a bit behind for some action so that you can get the most value but not completely game breaking.
Also, maybe you can implement challenges in each chapter where you have to go out of your way if you really want to get the bonus exp token instead of just being a stealable. Almost like a small reward for those that chooses take on the challenge.
I personally believe BEXP is superior to grinding. Easier difficulties could just give a large enough amount to where grinding isn’t needed
This might a weird but maybe you could bones exp when one of your units dies. It could something which bothered me for a while with redundant units: if they join fairly early and you dont manage to kill half of your army in the early game they never gonna be an replacement. A very good example would be characters like Ogier and Wendy in FE6. They are bad units from the start and the chapters after they join dont even have half the deployment slots you need to use every single unit in your army. Thus units like these have basically no function, because nobody would lose this many units in this short amount of time (and if you do the game might be to hard for you). Now imagine you run out of units mid or late game these early units wont help unless you had a way to level them up. Of course this needs to be limited but you could get back the equal or slightly less amount of exp an unit gained until their death which can now be spend on your weaker units and preferable only them. You could maybe make it flat out impossible to level up units who are close to a certain level depending on your chapter or they could just need an absurd amount of it. This way early replacement units have a function over they whole game as basically back up player ready to join the game when needed but having to use them instead of better units is still a punishment.
I've always thought this too. Early benched units wouldn't be quite so useless if they at least had the potential to be used later in the game.
Bonus xp was the only way Astrid got more then one strength upgrade in Radiant Dawn.
I was watching the latest Advance Wars video and thought that the system in it would probably fit well into FE. Like a turn limit, in which you would need to hold X amount of holds/castles, or just have more than the enemy. Give bonus exp for each holding over the X amount.
Bonus experience is a good mechanic in it's core, but depending on how it's implemented, it could be either good or bad
Three houses has weapon bonus experience, in a way.
I like side-objectives in these games, but I think I prefer it when I'm rewarded with a weapon, a unit, or something like that. Bonus experience doesn't make a lot of flavor sense.
I think the bonus experience thing could be used like the arena from older games .
Rather than fight ebenlies you fight your own army for bonus exp and level for both combatants . the thing is you have 3 chances for for each units to participate . what happens now is that you free training plot in up to 3 times but what happens if there one rounded? Well if you have a staff units they heal them back to full aftwr the fight but they can only help 3 times . if you one round one of your allies and can't heal them then there out of the next chapter .
A different way to implement bonus exp wpuld be a limited amount of times you can use it which only grow the more the units gets stronger .
A thrid option would be a bit evil . you can give units level caps or that bonus exp needs be be used the next chapter or it will be lost.
I have no idea of this break the game or not but this is what I thought
There was FE romhack, which made first your idea into life, with all fight between units, bonus exp and staff units healing losers.
@@Artemas_16 oh thats great thank you
It's an OK idea but the numbers needs to be significantly skewed towards boosting units that need to catch up rather than pumping EXP into already strong units, which tends to be the more optimal strategic decision
I would love to see BEXP come back in FE I love the mechanic.
I know I'm late but a game that does bonus exp well is Symphony of War: The Nephilim Saga. In that game, you get level up tokens here and there and they grant a full level regardless of your current exp, and then sets your next level's xp to 0. However, the catch is that you CANNOT use it if the unit's current level is equal or higher than your army's highest level unit. Example: You want to use a token on your lord, but your lord's level matches or exceeds the highest level in your army. This would make bonus exp more balanced in my opinion, as it would be more used on weaker units instead of inflating an already inflated unit. Yes, it could still break the game, but not even close to how broken it gets in Path of Radiance.
I like the Danganronpa soundtrack in the backround
What about the ability to get a couple of stat ups each chapter? That sounds like it could be balanced if you get stat-screwed.
I love bonus experience it allows you to use any unit you want and in iron man runs it allows you to patch your army up to fill in a spot I kinda wish it was it more FE games
I usually used it on units who might max out at level 20 mid-battle to promote them so that I could keep using them without throwing away xp.
To answer the question of this video: Yes
i feel as if another way of getting bonus exp should be taking massive risks, for example attacking an enemy on low heath of something
So you should be rewarded for playing badly, but getting good RNs? That makes no sense. You're already rewarded by getting the good RN in the first place.
I wouldn't mind the existence of bonus exp in the next fire emblem as long as they have some mechanic like the school aspect or something else to do during a timeframe that isn't just fighting and you need something else to supplement the fact that you didn't fight, granted you can still end up not having any issues if you didn't fight and are getting SOMETHING out of it, not everyone could be for that sort of thing or maybe they wouldn't find that to be a fair enough trade off? (You have maybe 3 people gain a level in a weapon or magic and maybe learn a skill or get high enough to promote, they might not necessarily find that comparable to fighting a map and leveling some units, finding a few items and getting weapon and magic levels at the same time) I personally feel it's a nice preference and option as long as they don't have the bands in 9 (I don't know if they're in 10) I felt the pure control of your build and growth is boring and the fact that I don't even have to use a unit and can purely make them however I want with a band is not my playstyle
I think it was an excellent mechanic that should be brought back. With it most any unit can be viable, which allows for more replayability and less restriction on what units a player can and/or will use. A possible idea that could be implemented to prevent abusing it is making the game save itself every time you use it, that way you can't just reload your save if you get a bad or mediocre level.
How about limiting the bonus exp by capping the level ups to match your currently highest leveled character?
I prefer bexp over grinding and I think raising caps keeping radiant dawn mechanic of 3 stats per level combined with insanely high 3 houses caps making abusing not as possible will make it balanced since you will not be able to force the weaker stats to grow as well and cap everything
I'd prefer a system similar to Echoes's party EXP but that scales based on how quickly you finish the chapter or fullfill side objectives (and that doesn't stop at 99 EXP but actually lets you level up). Can't be abused since it's spread among everyone, it lets players tackle chapters how they want (for example in a boss kill map, fast players that go straight to the boss would get more EXP from the bonus, while slower players will still get it by routing the whole map but with low bonus, balancing out the EXP for both playstyles and getting rid of the problem where many players still route boss kill maps just out of fear of missing out on EXP) and it incentivizes using a broader selection of characters.
What this system would miss out on would only be the choice of who to give the EXP to, but personally I feel like that part of "favoritism" can still be heavily present in the game through the use of stat boosting items.
Bonus Xp as a resource that can be used to buy unique items or help growth etc.
Great vid. I'd like to see more like this
All in want is a 6th 7th & 8th remake if they put in the bonus exp that would make the wait even better