I like the AA on return fire tactic. Sometimes I put my AA on return fire for a baiting in planes. Can be very effective, especially in the opening with these deadly lighter AA like flakvierling, dubla or vekotin.
I assumed Allot's Flackvierling non-usage was a miss-click but having read his thought process, it makes more sense. In hindsight, not buying them would have been a better option but having spent the points already, it made sense to preserve them until needed, rather that lose them after a few pot-shots at Tempests. His explaination for the AA/Arty battle also makes sense, though it was based on the assumption that the Centaurs were in A phase. In the end it worked out well, as WSM expended most of his ammo on a hamdful of 45pt 75mm & some 105s. This kept the arty off his other unit, which helped Allot a lot (that rhymes). Appart from the dogged infantry/SPW play, the straw that was about to break the camels back was unleashing Rosselsprungs light armour reserve which, while not amazing tanks, are easily purched in C-phase at 20pts & they could have bullied the infantry once the last Littlejohns were finished off. Not sure if that realization prompted WSN's surrender but I don's see how he could have made any progress vs armour with none of his own to take them out. He could have attacked them with Tempests but the carefully preserved Flackvierlings could have fended them off without fearing arty retaliation. Of course, all this is gleaned from a God view of the battle & hindsight. I was as confused as most watching but understanding the rationale of the players makes the viewing experience extra enjoyable.
atkpwr, I have to tell you something that happened to me today... I've been watching all your videos right after you post them. Today I had sinoplasty surgery and I came back from anesthesia talking in english to my doctor (I'm brazilian) telling him I was a commander for the soviets and I was fighting the americans. He laughed hard. I don't remember everything I said, but somewhere in between I said the sentence "I work for the communists" 😆. Anyway, I think I've been reading too many cold war books and watching all your videos.
I've seen this mentioned in several videos so far and I know some people have already commented but I feel like there hasn't been a definitive answer thus far. I can confidently say, the Tempest is superior to the Typhoon. Comparing the fighter versions, the Tempest is 10pts more expensive to gain 40 km/h and faster firing cannons, with other stats the same. As for the bomber versions, comparing the 250lb and 500lb bomb version, the Tempest is 5pts more expensive to gain 35 km/h, faster firing cannons and medium agility instead of bad. I can definitely say with exception for the fact that the Typhoon has specific variants such as the AT rocket version that the Tempest doesn't have, the Tempest is superior to the Typhoon. This is in line with reality, as the Tempest was an upgrade of the Typhoon in real life.
Yeah I 100% agree that transport speeds are some of the hardest negatives a division can have, quite a few of the best divisions right now are mostly top tier because they either have a legion of half tracks or they get transports that are extremely fast. the Traction being the most exaggerated example and I feel like it should get nerfed down to 95 Km/h, a division with otherwise very good units can become near useless because its transports only travel 60Km/h and then you get soviet divisions with already low quality troops moving at a snails pace with those slow soviet trucks.
placing them on return fire to avoid being targeted by arty is one thing but then still leaving them in the same position and not moving and putting distance between them is wrong. For the arty battle - taking out possibly 10+ arty pieces (number unknown at the start) is just not worth the battle if the guns (as expected) are split up. All up I think the lack of half tracks killed him in the end
I like what Allot did. Used his artillery to attract enemey arty and get a bit of value out of them and just accepted he wasn't gonna have a chance to win the arty war anyways (which, yeah, he wasn't gonna beat the Centaurs).
Early JU87s were for centaurs which what i thought a phase arty was. As its the only available counter. It tried to drive around enemy aa. This is also the reason my arty didnt fire at his arty. As it doesnt have a chance against centaurs, so plan was to avoid his counterbatt and try to hit important other targets. Artywar cant be won against them. And in the end it worked. A lot of investment from WSN and very little points in arty on my side that went down all while his arty barely killed anything other than arty while my arty did. Also I didnt get all the reconplanes, they just reload very fast. Return fire for AA is so that I only fire them when he overextends. I do not want to fire and reveal my AA against a tempest that Im only going to pin a little. Because there is so much arty about that is not worth the risk of losing my only 2 good AA pieces. Also it can be used as a trap making the opponent think there is no AA and overextend their planes to later turn the aa on. They are in the same spot to have a chance to kill tempests as a single flakvierling will struggle alone to do it. The moments you complain about dead tempests you overestimate flakvierlings. They are on hill so dont have full vision and also have short range. What would happen is they fire on tempest, it would smoke and get away and then the 2 only real AA pieces would get hammered by arty. Trading all my AA vs damaging a plane is not worth it. I did miss a 38min chance. 42min tempest is a good example that even with both of them they struggle to kill a single tempest heading straight for them. If I had my trap set here I could have traded the LG for the tempest. The other chances would have been a losing move. If I had split the flakvierlings he could just send his airforce and kill it without arty and it also isnt enough to kill tempests. I went for killy AA over defensive AA. WSN was running low on stuff and he was in a spot where he needed 12/12 back to win the game and he didnt see a way to stop the 15/9 so he gave up.
Cant say I overly agree with that, no point in buying them and just having them sit when you could have them drive off tempesters at the very least and could have saved several of your air units, that alone makes the risk of revealing them worth it IMO, not to mention you can move them after they fire, back and forth between different spots to prevent them from just getting nailed immediately from arty.
@@rocketman1104 Centaurs and the small howitzers have incredibly fast aimtime making the aa still vunerable to them even if they move. And as my entire available AA its a big loss if they die. Hence I had them on return to turn them on when they could actually kill airunits. Instead of dealing a small amount of damage to reaveal. I dont think there were any aircombats where them firing would have saved any of my planes. Partly my problem with I should have baited more above them.
Atkpwr stealing my videos smh I just posted this match yesterday Just kidding, nice to see more eyes on the tournament! Also, having watched & casted the game myself, the end was fairly clear to me. No spoilers, but the deck efficiency at the end was clear, and the position would have deteriorated even further than there. Having said that, it was said to the players of the tournament that they're to try and play till the end, but yeah you even said it yourself - nothing to respond with, the unit concentrations were clearly also in favor of the winner.
Exactly this was for mobility. The commander during the game switched from central to a southern position to switch where it gave vet during this game.
I cope with the: "Allot just flexing on WSN by not willing to shoot his arty knowing well that his prime, and after trash caning the enemy air force at the start he is doubling down by turning the AA of as well".
I like the AA on return fire tactic. Sometimes I put my AA on return fire for a baiting in planes. Can be very effective, especially in the opening with these deadly lighter AA like flakvierling, dubla or vekotin.
I suppose, just felt like a lot of losses for that choice
@@atkpwrgaming yeah, commented before finishing the video. Probably could have been put fire at will sooner👍
Yes agreed, transports should be the same speed. Divs with slow transports always feel like they put you behind from the beginning.
Yeah it sucks I dont care for that at all
I assumed Allot's Flackvierling non-usage was a miss-click but having read his thought process, it makes more sense. In hindsight, not buying them would have been a better option but having spent the points already, it made sense to preserve them until needed, rather that lose them after a few pot-shots at Tempests.
His explaination for the AA/Arty battle also makes sense, though it was based on the assumption that the Centaurs were in A phase. In the end it worked out well, as WSM expended most of his ammo on a hamdful of 45pt 75mm & some 105s. This kept the arty off his other unit, which helped Allot a lot (that rhymes).
Appart from the dogged infantry/SPW play, the straw that was about to break the camels back was unleashing Rosselsprungs light armour reserve which, while not amazing tanks, are easily purched in C-phase at 20pts & they could have bullied the infantry once the last Littlejohns were finished off. Not sure if that realization prompted WSN's surrender but I don's see how he could have made any progress vs armour with none of his own to take them out. He could have attacked them with Tempests but the carefully preserved Flackvierlings could have fended them off without fearing arty retaliation.
Of course, all this is gleaned from a God view of the battle & hindsight. I was as confused as most watching but understanding the rationale of the players makes the viewing experience extra enjoyable.
Yeah it makes sense in hindsight, still not a huge fan of it but definitely some 4D Chess moves there from allot
atkpwr, I have to tell you something that happened to me today... I've been watching all your videos right after you post them. Today I had sinoplasty surgery and I came back from anesthesia talking in english to my doctor (I'm brazilian) telling him I was a commander for the soviets and I was fighting the americans. He laughed hard. I don't remember everything I said, but somewhere in between I said the sentence "I work for the communists" 😆. Anyway, I think I've been reading too many cold war books and watching all your videos.
Beautiful, workers of the world unite!
Hope your recovery goes well. :)
Thanks so much! Good luck in recovery!
I've seen this mentioned in several videos so far and I know some people have already commented but I feel like there hasn't been a definitive answer thus far. I can confidently say, the Tempest is superior to the Typhoon. Comparing the fighter versions, the Tempest is 10pts more expensive to gain 40 km/h and faster firing cannons, with other stats the same. As for the bomber versions, comparing the 250lb and 500lb bomb version, the Tempest is 5pts more expensive to gain 35 km/h, faster firing cannons and medium agility instead of bad.
I can definitely say with exception for the fact that the Typhoon has specific variants such as the AT rocket version that the Tempest doesn't have, the Tempest is superior to the Typhoon. This is in line with reality, as the Tempest was an upgrade of the Typhoon in real life.
Good to know, thanks for clarifying!
insanely entertaining videos man! great fun watching this after school
Thanks for watching!
Yeah I 100% agree that transport speeds are some of the hardest negatives a division can have, quite a few of the best divisions right now are mostly top tier because they either have a legion of half tracks or they get transports that are extremely fast. the Traction being the most exaggerated example and I feel like it should get nerfed down to 95 Km/h, a division with otherwise very good units can become near useless because its transports only travel 60Km/h and then you get soviet divisions with already low quality troops moving at a snails pace with those slow soviet trucks.
Yeah I feel that 60km transports in general are just overly punishing and often times kill divisions that have enough struggles as is
Get well soon! Thx for casting!
Thank you you too!
placing them on return fire to avoid being targeted by arty is one thing but then still leaving them in the same position and not moving and putting distance between them is wrong. For the arty battle - taking out possibly 10+ arty pieces (number unknown at the start) is just not worth the battle if the guns (as expected) are split up. All up I think the lack of half tracks killed him in the end
Agreed!
I like what Allot did. Used his artillery to attract enemey arty and get a bit of value out of them and just accepted he wasn't gonna have a chance to win the arty war anyways (which, yeah, he wasn't gonna beat the Centaurs).
Yeah it definitely worked out well!
Bit confused about the commander for Unternehmen. Like, only 3 leaders and a commander?
I agree it does seem a little light
I guess that he simply forgot about his AA
No I think he was doing that on purpose, next level play
Early JU87s were for centaurs which what i thought a phase arty was. As its the only available counter. It tried to drive around enemy aa. This is also the reason my arty didnt fire at his arty. As it doesnt have a chance against centaurs, so plan was to avoid his counterbatt and try to hit important other targets. Artywar cant be won against them. And in the end it worked. A lot of investment from WSN and very little points in arty on my side that went down all while his arty barely killed anything other than arty while my arty did.
Also I didnt get all the reconplanes, they just reload very fast.
Return fire for AA is so that I only fire them when he overextends. I do not want to fire and reveal my AA against a tempest that Im only going to pin a little. Because there is so much arty about that is not worth the risk of losing my only 2 good AA pieces. Also it can be used as a trap making the opponent think there is no AA and overextend their planes to later turn the aa on.
They are in the same spot to have a chance to kill tempests as a single flakvierling will struggle alone to do it.
The moments you complain about dead tempests you overestimate flakvierlings. They are on hill so dont have full vision and also have short range. What would happen is they fire on tempest, it would smoke and get away and then the 2 only real AA pieces would get hammered by arty. Trading all my AA vs damaging a plane is not worth it. I did miss a 38min chance. 42min tempest is a good example that even with both of them they struggle to kill a single tempest heading straight for them. If I had my trap set here I could have traded the LG for the tempest.
The other chances would have been a losing move. If I had split the flakvierlings he could just send his airforce and kill it without arty and it also isnt enough to kill tempests. I went for killy AA over defensive AA.
WSN was running low on stuff and he was in a spot where he needed 12/12 back to win the game and he didnt see a way to stop the 15/9 so he gave up.
Thanks for the explanation, very enlightening!
Cant say I overly agree with that, no point in buying them and just having them sit when you could have them drive off tempesters at the very least and could have saved several of your air units, that alone makes the risk of revealing them worth it IMO, not to mention you can move them after they fire, back and forth between different spots to prevent them from just getting nailed immediately from arty.
@@rocketman1104 Centaurs and the small howitzers have incredibly fast aimtime making the aa still vunerable to them even if they move. And as my entire available AA its a big loss if they die. Hence I had them on return to turn them on when they could actually kill airunits. Instead of dealing a small amount of damage to reaveal. I dont think there were any aircombats where them firing would have saved any of my planes. Partly my problem with I should have baited more above them.
I love look 6th airborne in game
Its a cool looking division
Atkpwr stealing my videos smh I just posted this match yesterday
Just kidding, nice to see more eyes on the tournament!
Also, having watched & casted the game myself, the end was fairly clear to me. No spoilers, but the deck efficiency at the end was clear, and the position would have deteriorated even further than there. Having said that, it was said to the players of the tournament that they're to try and play till the end, but yeah you even said it yourself - nothing to respond with, the unit concentrations were clearly also in favor of the winner.
Yeah it was a really interesting match, its not often that things run out with attrition like that
I like motorcycle commander because of the mobility. I generally dislike most foot commanders.
Exactly this was for mobility. The commander during the game switched from central to a southern position to switch where it gave vet during this game.
They just feel so killable and difficult to hide
"Garbage on wheels", but its a tank so its on tracks....
Lol, true
I cope with the: "Allot just flexing on WSN by not willing to shoot his arty knowing well that his prime, and after trash caning the enemy air force at the start he is doubling down by turning the AA of as well".
Hahaha most definitely!
AA new tactic never saw that before... still wondering why??
Yeah I dont get it either haha
If you like 40k you should check out men of war 2/men of war assault squad 2, they have 40k mods
Thanks for the suggestion!