A lot of content creators are asking me what they can do to prevent getting scammed if they're with an agency. The easiest thing to do is demand contract transparency all the way through the deal. Most agencies will sign a deal between YOU and THEM, and the price they set in that agreement isn't necessarily what they got from the brand. You can ask what the deal was that the agency signed between THEM and THE BRAND. That number will always be what they really get paid. This is especially important if you're signed exclusively under a talent agency that's doing deals on your behalf directly with brands. Don't be afraid to ask for transparency from agencies. They work for you. If they can't show you how the whole deal gets done, that's an easy red flag.
This is exactly what trucker brokers do in the industry which is why IRL lots of things are expensive. Because brokers demand higher from people wanting things shipped and then lie about how much the offer to the drivers. So the drivers suffer, the companies over pay and the customer has to eat the higher cost. The only person this benefits is the broker. Very similar.
Man I feel naive. When I was signed with different agencies, I asked to be in meetings as I’m older and have plenty of experience in corporate settings. I was never taken up on that offer. I also did not understand why the various agencies wanted to keep me when my rates were relatively low - now I’m seeing that they were nowhere near as low as I was being told.
Never been signed to a talent agency but I have had marketing agencies reach me directly and they are already connected with the brand. Crazy to think I’ve probably had hundreds of thousands of dollars stolen from me over the last decade.
Yeah the Arcadum situation was extremely upsetting. The dude was so talented and did a ton of community stuff but had this secret personality and harms, intimidates people behind the scenes. It's not only bad for the victims, but the entire community feels betrayed. I generally try to have compassion for people eho have done bad things, because none of us on this Earth are free of personal failings, And if I can't forgive others how could I ever forgive myself? Crtain behavior is really hard to get past, though. Still, I do hope he sought help so he could change his behavior, but the community will never see him the same. In the end, it's really risky to represent someone, so I think you made the correct pivot.
Something that really caught me about that situation is how successful he was but how awful he was at actually running the business. He intimidated people into constant free work but had way more funding than he needed to make everybody happy as can be. He was an evil moron when it came to dealing with people just on a day to day level, it's no wonder he was a psychopathic predator when it came to women in his personal life.
@@GypsumGeneration Yeah that's only tip of the iceberg, I had watched the Destiny breakdown of the entire situation for context but even that is NEVER even close to approaching exactly how many bad things happen that nobody knows about, and it's sad how many people out there who are much more sneaky are cashing in and not getting caught, and if someone comes forward, people think it's just a clout chaser who wants to "ruin someone's career." Like if you didn't want to ruin your career, just be a better person. The only people who should fear someome coming forward in 99.999998% of cases is someone who is guilty of what they are being accused of. And the messed up part is that extremely small fraction of people have EVERYTHING taken from them, especially their reputation, even if they were proven innocent. Still, it happens so rarely that I always default to believing the victim until proven otherwise.
@@michaelricheson849 Pretty sure it's more important to be a good storyteller, know how to read human psychology, how to create an immersive environment, and generally being a nice person to be around.
@@RebeccaLoran well, some of those ladies were known clout chasers and grifters😅 But yeah, if out of 100 stories even 1 is real he is a legit vile thing. Many of those stories were wild...
This isn't just an issue in Creator issue, it is a talent issue across the board; Models, bands, performers, dancers. Exclusive agency contracts are bullshit and frequently burn the talent.
Lol! Everyone in the comments acting like this is some new thing! 😂 I've been on RUclips since 2006 and let me tell you - this is how it's done. This is the established path for decades. It's not right or good, obviously, but absolutely nothing about this is new at all. There's been so many scandals about this that it's absolutely baffling to me that not everybody in the entire planet has already heard about this.
I really like that you show the comment that you’re reacting to in chat, but using the iPhone sounds makes me think that a message is sending delayed lol - love the new style btw!
lol I remember this back in the day on youtube, there were these middlemen who you would HAVE to sign up with back in the day in order to get ads / monetization on youtube I forget what they were called but there was a huge revolt against them like 10+ years ago. I guess they found a way to sleaze their way back into the fold.
How is it legal for talent agencies to lie to their talent about their deals? If lying about the value of a deal isn't outright fraud, then at a bare minimum I would assume that talent agencies have a legal duty to their clients that would forbid that behavior, in the same way that real estate agents can't lie about an offer and take thousands of dollars off the top.
He can't and likely doesn't see it as helpful even if he could. You heard him mentioned burning bridges elsewhere in the video and this sounds like another way to do it. Also even if he starts a successful witchhunt that bankrupts those agencies, whats stopping them from simply changing their name and doing it all over, armed with lessons from their past to keep their scams more subtle this time? The problem is with the trend not the participants. As long as creators continue to sign those contracts the trend will persist and passing opportunists will participate hence why he is making a video like this.
He pretty much gave you the criteria to look out for. "If they want you to sign exclusively to the agency, don't do it." The problem with "name & shame" is that he only needs to name one agency that actually doesn't screw over one of their talents and he's risking a defamation lawsuit (and potentially a bunch of NDA breaches depending on where he got the information about some agency contracts in the first place).
With all respect due (and in your case it's a lot from me) this is a bad take. It's not my responsibility to delete my business because creators choose to sign predatory contracts. It's my responsibility to run a good and ethical business and empower creators I work with. I've done a ton of work on this channel and on my Patreon on how to identify the bad guys. Now it's your job and responsibility to protect your channel. I'm not going to risk my own business and open myself up to lawsuits so I can "name and shame." This is an attitude spawned from the creator world because you have no real consequences for stirring up drama on your channels - it drives you views and ad revenue. In the real world serious accusations against big businesses get you sued and blacklisted even if you're in the right. Good people don't control the world and the crowd has no power there. I made this video (and I will make more) to empower creators to make informed decisions. I won't fight your battles for you.
I feel like you made a similar video to this some number of years ago. Crazy to me that the streamers are still signing these deals with scummy talent agencies.
I ran into a guy doing this in the biotech space. I'm not going to say what exactly the service was or where its located, but several times as the client , when I'd reach out to the tech that would be coming into the space , the handler company would reach out to me and tell me to not talk directly to the technical company only through their booking company. Biggest red flag you're potentially dealing with a talent markup company.
So many holes in this.. why not stay a talent agency and sign people non-exclusively and just take a 40% cut? Talent will see you are offering them better deals without you needing to expose anyone directly and talent will come to you because of the bigger overall take home share.
Do you know what someone like me can do? I'm doing crazy views on gaming tutorials, around 1.5 to 3 million a month. But i cant find a brand that understands i can get millions of views on a certain game, but it'll be spread over 100 videos that i release all within days of each other. All they want is 30-second intergrations, but i can't do that because my videos are useslly only 2 min long. I know i can sell things like gamepass, i know my videos would be valuable to other game creators to promote their new up and coming games. But i haven't had any luck. Do you have any suggestions? Very informative video btw
how is it not possible to figure out a way to do it ethically? all you have to do is like CC them in the email with the sponsor showing the amount they offered.
I think it is possible, at least on a smaller personal level. if it were me, I would have a manager whose email inbox is visible to me at all times. That precludes them from managing multiple parties thru one inbox but if all comms are legally shared and must be as part of the contract it's kind of hard to get fucked.
he is saying that making 20% of a deal is the cap and that working with the sponsors directly makes more money that working since you can increases your margins (so he can make maybe 30-40% profit on a deal. and that the only way you make more money working with streamers is by scamming them. So he is saying, that there is way to do ethically but that way is a shit way to make money.
An agencies pay doesn't scale with the skill or added value of the agent. Even if an agent is awesome and manages to find huge deals, he isn't able to take a cut that represents this added value, because of the 20% system. This limits scalability (being a better agent doesn't reward you with more money)To compare: imagine if instead of taking a cut, you make an agreement with your talent that you pay them a flat amount relative to Their value, now your work as an agent does scale with your skills (you will make more if you manage to get amazing sponsors), but of course that would look terrible. And that in essence happens now: he can approach talent and pay them for sponsorships relative to the value that talent provides, And Devin's agency can take a cut depending on his skill in finding good advertising opportunities.
If he CC's them, he's talking to them. Which gets him blacklisted. This video IS him doing it ethically. He can't go to the talents directly but he can make them informed that they might be getting taken advantage of.
In negotiations could you not just charge the brand more instead of hurting the creator? So, instead of banking the 80k + 20% of the 100k deal. You tell the brand it must be 120k, then work out the contract with the streamer that if the marketing agency is able to increase the value of the deal beyond the indicial offer would be profit for the agency going out of the way to capitalize their weight in the deal or group of creators? I'm sure there is a better way to explain what I'm trying to mean. You also can increase the number of creators you work with, again that brings more drama and issues though.
Probably because they don’t know any better. Most streamers/creators aren’t business savvy people. They are usually people who play video games for a living. If all of their friends use a certain agency they most likely will too
@@Howie_2114 I don’t even think it’s necessarily that. A lot of streamers are pretty savvy. Some are just busy. If you are streaming 8-10hours 5 or 6 days a week you don’t spend your spare time chasing sponsors. Emails get missed, you receive many emails a day. Many of whom are people posing as sponsors to phish you. It’s a minefield and working out which emails are worth investing time and actually replying to isn’t always easy. At the end of the day sometimes it feels easier to stream an extra 4 hours or work on a video rather than do the admin.
A lot of this stuff is probably like a business secret, so unless you are INSANELY picky or have a friend that runs a business and is willing to tell you, then most people won't know any better.
Do you work with any gaming podcasts? (Speaking as a podcast network owner who's always looking for opportunities. Just shot you a message through your website contact form. Let's chat.)
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A lot of content creators are asking me what they can do to prevent getting scammed if they're with an agency. The easiest thing to do is demand contract transparency all the way through the deal. Most agencies will sign a deal between YOU and THEM, and the price they set in that agreement isn't necessarily what they got from the brand. You can ask what the deal was that the agency signed between THEM and THE BRAND. That number will always be what they really get paid. This is especially important if you're signed exclusively under a talent agency that's doing deals on your behalf directly with brands. Don't be afraid to ask for transparency from agencies. They work for you. If they can't show you how the whole deal gets done, that's an easy red flag.
This is exactly what trucker brokers do in the industry which is why IRL lots of things are expensive. Because brokers demand higher from people wanting things shipped and then lie about how much the offer to the drivers. So the drivers suffer, the companies over pay and the customer has to eat the higher cost. The only person this benefits is the broker. Very similar.
Man I feel naive. When I was signed with different agencies, I asked to be in meetings as I’m older and have plenty of experience in corporate settings. I was never taken up on that offer. I also did not understand why the various agencies wanted to keep me when my rates were relatively low - now I’m seeing that they were nowhere near as low as I was being told.
Doing ad deals with Twitch streamers is like giving an addict $100k and expect them to get a college education
This is why I turn down like 99% of offers that come my way
this is insane, thought this died off after machina crazy to see that it just evolved instead
1:05 He is talking about Arcadum. I can 100% guarantee it.
Never been signed to a talent agency but I have had marketing agencies reach me directly and they are already connected with the brand. Crazy to think I’ve probably had hundreds of thousands of dollars stolen from me over the last decade.
Yeah the Arcadum situation was extremely upsetting. The dude was so talented and did a ton of community stuff but had this secret personality and harms, intimidates people behind the scenes.
It's not only bad for the victims, but the entire community feels betrayed.
I generally try to have compassion for people eho have done bad things, because none of us on this Earth are free of personal failings, And if I can't forgive others how could I ever forgive myself? Crtain behavior is really hard to get past, though.
Still, I do hope he sought help so he could change his behavior, but the community will never see him the same.
In the end, it's really risky to represent someone, so I think you made the correct pivot.
Something that really caught me about that situation is how successful he was but how awful he was at actually running the business. He intimidated people into constant free work but had way more funding than he needed to make everybody happy as can be. He was an evil moron when it came to dealing with people just on a day to day level, it's no wonder he was a psychopathic predator when it came to women in his personal life.
@@GypsumGeneration Yeah that's only tip of the iceberg, I had watched the Destiny breakdown of the entire situation for context but even that is NEVER even close to approaching exactly how many bad things happen that nobody knows about, and it's sad how many people out there who are much more sneaky are cashing in and not getting caught, and if someone comes forward, people think it's just a clout chaser who wants to "ruin someone's career."
Like if you didn't want to ruin your career, just be a better person. The only people who should fear someome coming forward in 99.999998% of cases is someone who is guilty of what they are being accused of.
And the messed up part is that extremely small fraction of people have EVERYTHING taken from them, especially their reputation, even if they were proven innocent. Still, it happens so rarely that I always default to believing the victim until proven otherwise.
To be the best DM you have to be an abusive manipulator.
@@michaelricheson849 Pretty sure it's more important to be a good storyteller, know how to read human psychology, how to create an immersive environment, and generally being a nice person to be around.
@@RebeccaLoran well, some of those ladies were known clout chasers and grifters😅
But yeah, if out of 100 stories even 1 is real he is a legit vile thing. Many of those stories were wild...
This isn't just an issue in Creator issue, it is a talent issue across the board; Models, bands, performers, dancers. Exclusive agency contracts are bullshit and frequently burn the talent.
thats insane, had no clue this was happening. tysm
Now that I’m in the business side of this industry I’m realizing how bad talent agencies generally are
It’s not personal, it’s just business.
Thanks for spreading awareness
Bless you Devin for just telling the truth. Saw many many deals like this in combat sports as well.
Hearing Devin on these topics really makes me feel like I should have finished my business/marketing diploma.. What a great business you've built 🤟
Thanks for the information
Lol! Everyone in the comments acting like this is some new thing! 😂 I've been on RUclips since 2006 and let me tell you - this is how it's done. This is the established path for decades. It's not right or good, obviously, but absolutely nothing about this is new at all. There's been so many scandals about this that it's absolutely baffling to me that not everybody in the entire planet has already heard about this.
I actually learn a lot from these videos
Another valuable diamond! Glad you back, King!
I really like that you show the comment that you’re reacting to in chat, but using the iPhone sounds makes me think that a message is sending delayed lol - love the new style btw!
lol I remember this back in the day on youtube, there were these middlemen who you would HAVE to sign up with back in the day in order to get ads / monetization on youtube I forget what they were called but there was a huge revolt against them like 10+ years ago. I guess they found a way to sleaze their way back into the fold.
Multi-channel networks IIRC. Something something sell shovels during a gold rush something something lipstick on a pig
Machinima?
How is it legal for talent agencies to lie to their talent about their deals? If lying about the value of a deal isn't outright fraud, then at a bare minimum I would assume that talent agencies have a legal duty to their clients that would forbid that behavior, in the same way that real estate agents can't lie about an offer and take thousands of dollars off the top.
Thanks Devin!
so if you know of them call them out so us creators can be informed 7:33
He can't and likely doesn't see it as helpful even if he could. You heard him mentioned burning bridges elsewhere in the video and this sounds like another way to do it. Also even if he starts a successful witchhunt that bankrupts those agencies, whats stopping them from simply changing their name and doing it all over, armed with lessons from their past to keep their scams more subtle this time? The problem is with the trend not the participants. As long as creators continue to sign those contracts the trend will persist and passing opportunists will participate hence why he is making a video like this.
He pretty much gave you the criteria to look out for. "If they want you to sign exclusively to the agency, don't do it."
The problem with "name & shame" is that he only needs to name one agency that actually doesn't screw over one of their talents and he's risking a defamation lawsuit (and potentially a bunch of NDA breaches depending on where he got the information about some agency contracts in the first place).
With all respect due (and in your case it's a lot from me) this is a bad take. It's not my responsibility to delete my business because creators choose to sign predatory contracts. It's my responsibility to run a good and ethical business and empower creators I work with. I've done a ton of work on this channel and on my Patreon on how to identify the bad guys. Now it's your job and responsibility to protect your channel. I'm not going to risk my own business and open myself up to lawsuits so I can "name and shame." This is an attitude spawned from the creator world because you have no real consequences for stirring up drama on your channels - it drives you views and ad revenue. In the real world serious accusations against big businesses get you sued and blacklisted even if you're in the right. Good people don't control the world and the crowd has no power there.
I made this video (and I will make more) to empower creators to make informed decisions. I won't fight your battles for you.
That has to be illegal, its just no one has actually called attention to it.
I feel like you made a similar video to this some number of years ago. Crazy to me that the streamers are still signing these deals with scummy talent agencies.
I ran into a guy doing this in the biotech space. I'm not going to say what exactly the service was or where its located, but several times as the client , when I'd reach out to the tech that would be coming into the space , the handler company would reach out to me and tell me to not talk directly to the technical company only through their booking company.
Biggest red flag you're potentially dealing with a talent markup company.
A pop filter would be fantastic, the audio is insane with the amount of plosives
Big E brought me here!
Would love to see a breakdown of what happened with BLEED
This is insane
So many holes in this.. why not stay a talent agency and sign people non-exclusively and just take a 40% cut? Talent will see you are offering them better deals without you needing to expose anyone directly and talent will come to you because of the bigger overall take home share.
Can an influencer ask their agency if they can see the contract offer from the brand?
whats the multiple chat app ur using in this video?
Damn thats brutal!
Do you know what someone like me can do? I'm doing crazy views on gaming tutorials, around 1.5 to 3 million a month. But i cant find a brand that understands i can get millions of views on a certain game, but it'll be spread over 100 videos that i release all within days of each other. All they want is 30-second intergrations, but i can't do that because my videos are useslly only 2 min long.
I know i can sell things like gamepass, i know my videos would be valuable to other game creators to promote their new up and coming games. But i haven't had any luck.
Do you have any suggestions? Very informative video btw
The four dislikes on this video....definitely influencers LOL
His “ethical way” still is t transparent. Now he just tells the brand an inflated price and pays the taker a fraction
Imagine an ethical talent agency that makes trillions of dollars being a daycare. LOL
how is it not possible to figure out a way to do it ethically? all you have to do is like CC them in the email with the sponsor showing the amount they offered.
I think it’s to do with the margins. Doing it ethically limits you to a max 20% at most of a deal. Doing it unethically gets you 80%+.
I think it is possible, at least on a smaller personal level. if it were me, I would have a manager whose email inbox is visible to me at all times. That precludes them from managing multiple parties thru one inbox but if all comms are legally shared and must be as part of the contract it's kind of hard to get fucked.
he is saying that making 20% of a deal is the cap and that working with the sponsors directly makes more money that working since you can increases your margins (so he can make maybe 30-40% profit on a deal. and that the only way you make more money working with streamers is by scamming them.
So he is saying, that there is way to do ethically but that way is a shit way to make money.
An agencies pay doesn't scale with the skill or added value of the agent. Even if an agent is awesome and manages to find huge deals, he isn't able to take a cut that represents this added value, because of the 20% system. This limits scalability (being a better agent doesn't reward you with more money)To compare: imagine if instead of taking a cut, you make an agreement with your talent that you pay them a flat amount relative to Their value, now your work as an agent does scale with your skills (you will make more if you manage to get amazing sponsors), but of course that would look terrible. And that in essence happens now: he can approach talent and pay them for sponsorships relative to the value that talent provides, And Devin's agency can take a cut depending on his skill in finding good advertising opportunities.
If he CC's them, he's talking to them. Which gets him blacklisted.
This video IS him doing it ethically. He can't go to the talents directly but he can make them informed that they might be getting taken advantage of.
Love these videos, but the Discord audio noises are a bit annoying.
what app is that for multi chat?
In negotiations could you not just charge the brand more instead of hurting the creator? So, instead of banking the 80k + 20% of the 100k deal. You tell the brand it must be 120k, then work out the contract with the streamer that if the marketing agency is able to increase the value of the deal beyond the indicial offer would be profit for the agency going out of the way to capitalize their weight in the deal or group of creators? I'm sure there is a better way to explain what I'm trying to mean. You also can increase the number of creators you work with, again that brings more drama and issues though.
I thought I noticed a title change lol
typical gatekeeper behaviour
everyone knows this is at least a possibility
The thumb nail is crazy :D
It's unethical 'not' to talk to the talent.
This video IS him doing it ethically. He can't go to the talents directly but he can make them informed that they might be getting taken advantage of.
@@SenkaZver It doesn't make it ethical to not do it because it would cut business off.
This sounds like standard Hollywood, entertainment, etc scummy deal practices
So why do creators use talent agencies instead of dealing with companies and ppl like you directly? How is this not theft or fraud?
Probably because they don’t know any better. Most streamers/creators aren’t business savvy people. They are usually people who play video games for a living. If all of their friends use a certain agency they most likely will too
@@Howie_2114 I don’t even think it’s necessarily that. A lot of streamers are pretty savvy.
Some are just busy. If you are streaming 8-10hours 5 or 6 days a week you don’t spend your spare time chasing sponsors.
Emails get missed, you receive many emails a day. Many of whom are people posing as sponsors to phish you. It’s a minefield and working out which emails are worth investing time and actually replying to isn’t always easy. At the end of the day sometimes it feels easier to stream an extra 4 hours or work on a video rather than do the admin.
A lot of this stuff is probably like a business secret, so unless you are INSANELY picky or have a friend that runs a business and is willing to tell you, then most people won't know any better.
i love casually dropping im doing ads for the US army. LETS GO WAR!
womp womp
third
First 🥇
This is nothing new lmao. I swear Devin Nash has had some absolute SHIT takes lately lol
I love Devin's content and respect him a lot but I'm really disliking his shorts content lately.
Do you work with any gaming podcasts? (Speaking as a podcast network owner who's always looking for opportunities. Just shot you a message through your website contact form. Let's chat.)