Tested! Raised Reverse Stem BeMoreBikes
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- Опубликовано: 14 апр 2023
- Would you try this wild looking stem? We passed it around to a few riders and are excited to dhare out feedback on the BeMoreBike Raised Reverse Stem.
Want to get one to try yourself? Visit: bemorebikes.com/
Price: $400
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Definitely cool that hes thinking way outside of whats normal, its like 15 years of little changes at once.
Exactly
Maybe a dropper stem is coming in the near future 🤔
Given that we have dropper posts, and suspension forks, it should work. Would make enduro bikes climb like XC, and descend like DH. Would probably cost at least $150 though, if you look at dropper post pricing. SRAM could integrate this in their flight attendant system too.
It could work with the fork to maintain the same body position even when the fork gets compressed. For example, if your fork uses 150mm of travel on a bump, your stem height increases by 150mm, keeping the bike perfectly level.
😂 please no! 😂
A what?
I see this coming, same thought while watching
@@wx2999 After a dropper stem, how about a dropper handlebar with a lever to get your handlebar shorter for tight squeezes and wider where leverage is needed.
Crazy how this is the 3rd video from mtb RUclipsrs on this stem this week! Love to try it, it makes total sense for downhill riding! Love that standing position it seems to put you in!
“The universal athletic position is the foundation of all movement.” My conjecture is biking breaks this universal rule for one reason ONLY - the desire to overcome wind resistance - rarely and issue in most MTB scenarios. You set a KOM on your very first ride! You can’t ignore that. In spite of all the bike size issues you mentioned - posturing in the universal athletic position just works! A bit more reach on your bike and this problem is gone. Dirt bikes are the model - not sport bikes. The industry (and us consumers) are slowly getting there. Hats off to BMB for shaking’ it up.
Good to push the envelope of norms every once in a while to reevaluate those things we think are traditionally better.
Exactly, you never learn if you don’t experiment. I started experimenting with all kinds of heights and offsets about 3 years ago. Anything from below traditional to 80mm taller than the RR (Raised Reversed) stem seen here, and offsets from 70mm forward to -50mm Reversed. These were tested in back to back runs always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. In my tests I was very consistently a lot faster with the RR stem than the traditional stems.
Great video Drew! Thanks for trying the product and reporting back. Since I don’t really ride steep trails, and when I do I’m already going faster than I feel comfortable crashing at, sounds like this is not something I’d be after. Again, nice work!
Hey thanks Jeff! Pretty sure you spend plenty of time on steep trails… this may help you manual down them even better. 🙌🙌
You gotta try it Jeff would love to hear your review on it aswell
Your hair is giving great horned owl vibes and it’s awesome.
Oh thank you! Haha. That wind was pushing strong! Haha.
I'm interested in where things go with this stem, but I do think there is agood reason why the Mondraker 0mm stem concept got scrapped. On the Making Up the Numbers podcast Brook MacDonald explained that he rode it during part of a WC season. He tested it on steep trails and found it OK. But when he raced Ft. William, he crashed every single run he did on the hill and ended up 69th. He put a traditional stem on (40mm I think) and then went on to get his first and only WC win later that year. He pretty much put it all down to not being able to weight the front wheel in corners dude to the 0mm stem. Curious to hear more about how you guys found it on tighter, flat corners where loading up the front wheel is key.
Would a bike with a longer reach solve the issue back then? I mean a bike with +40mm reach should result in the same bodyposition? Of Course, you need to put a possible extra "default" rise aside which however should be bearable with a focus on DH.. 🙂
@@oliviano I don’t know the specific geometry numbers on Brook’s bike back then, but I think that was the original rationale behind the 0mm stem - replace the 40 to 50mm of stem length with 40 to 50mm of reach. That said, this one of of the drivers of modern long reach bikes, so maybe if they went longer again it would help? Not sure.
@Evan..finally some common sense. I keep trying to say this to ppl in comments and no one seems to understand it. You need grip on the front wheel or else your front part of the bike will wash out. That's why mondraker didn't succeed with the zero stem(later 10mm stem); they were great in straight line.. but very bad in corners. I also shortens the reach of the bike so, you'll need a dedicated longer reach frame to compensate.
@@evanblackwell3920 yes, mondraker frames were longer, being effectively upsized from a reach POV with more than an actual size. (M was longer than L sized bikes from its day)
Pro performance is about what's comfortable for them. Not what is theoretically best. Not saying this is the best, but if you put him on this stem for the same amount of time as he spent on a 40 then would probably be a very different story
Possibly the most informative and interesting vid I've seen from you guys, or most bike related channels. Thanks so much. Definitely got me thinking.
Our pleasure!
I feel like almost everything that we take for granted on our bikes now was once extreme. 800 mil bars?! 29" wheels?! Many things we use on our bikes now REQUIRED a change in body position to fully take advantage of all the benefits while overcoming some of the shortcomings (modern geo). I'm glad there are still people thinking outside the box and coming up with new ideas. I hope someone gives this kid a job! I thought the review was even handed and fair. Not gushing but also not so blindly against the stem that you deny the benefits and possible use cases, even though it's not a Goldilocks stem for YOU!
I love the reviews in this channel!
Nice review!
I've been running 35mm spacers under my stem in combination with a 40mm rise bar and this really was a game changer for me. Also tried 50mm rise, but as you mentioned, I had troubles getting the weight down on the front when climbing
I’m riding 35mm spacers, 50 mm bars with the spams 33 mm stem. I d love to try it, that standing positions while going down or hitting jumps looks a lot more of moto style. That position has always felt stronger and given me a lot more confidence and control!
Who cares about climbing lmao I used this for a weekend and it was fun!
I definitely think you nailed it with hitting your knees on the bar when doing steep, tight climbs. I expect this would also happen on fast flat tracks where you want to peddle through the turns. The moto geometry makes sense from a stability perspective, but on a moto you can position yourself differently because you're not peddling through the turns.
This was a great product review. Thank you. I wonder if those who specialize in fitting bikes will do similar reviews. Thanks again.
More stack, short stem, and raised bars is how I have been setting up my bike for years. I set it up so with the bend of the handle bars my hands are even with the steerer tube. I started that after racing downhill in the early 2000’s because I felt more in the bike than on top of the bike like a motorcycle. The reversed raised looks a little too aggressive for me. I don’t like being that upright.
I think that's just something you have to get used to (using more of your core) and the problem with this product IMO, is the rest of the bike's geometry doesn't adjust to the drastic changes. I'd also like to see how it handles jumps, which I don't think either Drew or Seth discussed. Also, a lot of people, myself included, consider aesthetics, and while it might not in and of itself be a deal breaker, it's definitely a negative. It looks like if you're riding a lot of downhill, and especially if you're not climbing, that feeling of not going OTB is the biggest benefitn and why it's so intriguing.
The RR (Raised Reversed) stems position is not that crazy feeling when you actually ride it. Don’t let the visual scare you off. One of the most common responses is that it doesn’t feel as weird as it looks and that it wasn’t what they expected. 10:57 It’s actually very similar to a dirt bike both in stack and reach feet to hands and having your hands behind the steering axis. It’s interesting to me how similar they are considering the RR stem was not inspired by or designed to emulate the position of a dirt bike. I don’t even ride dirt bikes. The RR stem was developed over almost 3 years testing anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you now see, and anything from 70mm forward to -50mm Reversed always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. The RR stem that you see here is the culmination of all that testing to find the best Enduro mtb stem geometry.
I've been doing that for years with a very short stem and high-rise bars with out knowing why it works, its does give you confidence on the ride particularly when you compare it to a traditional setup
Thanks, Drew. I was looking forward to this test. I use a 32mm stem and an 80mm rise handlebar. I feel more comfortable with a higher stack height. This stem might be good for me. I will just have to save up the step $400 price.
I had a similar revelation just last week when I tried a friends bike that is too big for me with really tall stack. Insanely good on steeps but some other downsides. Certainly making me reconsider the setup on my own bike.
Thanks for sharing! Always good to step outside our comfort zones.
I could see this being for a bikepark rider on a long Enduro/freeride bike. Very interesting product and awesome review as usual 👌🏾
It reminds me of Lee McCormick's RAD bike sizing system. More stack and less reach can actually be better.
This is super interesting. Still seems like early days. Can’t wait to see how it develops further
Newer bike geo(long reach, steeped SA and low BB height) was created for climbing, speed, stability and balance between them all, but I believe good old Friday fails otb-endo numbers can be attributed to low stack height, low bar rise and super wide bars. This Reverse stem just brings a bike's geo numbers back to the 2000s... shorter reach with taller stack and in many cases, a high rise bar. Great for maneuverability and DH/steeps, but not so great on the climbs because of lack of weight over the front wheel. Many riders are looking for the same feel that this stem provides by using a shorter stem and decreasing reach and increasing stack height by using 50mm+ riser bars with 12°+ back sweep. The back sweep being the key to getting the bars aligned with or behind the head tube.
I am completely sold on higher stacks and short stems. Not this extreme, but it definitely points out how far you can go, sort of like the Grim Donut bike... great and informative review!
Thanks for sharing and appreciate you watching.
I would be very interested in a 0mm stem that sits over and centered on the steering tube. I have been gradually going to taller bars and really like the idea that a neutral position on the steering axis. Would probably then go back to a lo/no rise bar for starters.
I’ve been running short stems and high rise bars for a few years now (40/45/50mm stems and deity highside 80mm bars). I’m on a L/XL bikes.
I like the idea of this and would want to try it out. I grew up on a BMX with a raised handlebar and would hit steep stuff with confidence. You do have to change your technique to climb and weight the front end without unloading the rear tire to much.
When I picked up MTB, it took me awhile to get use to the low and forward position. I feel like if there are varying options of height and stem lengths to dial in on what works for my reach and stance, I could find a combo that would improve my decent and still be capable on the climb.
The first thing I thought of were bmx bars running in line with the forks. Interestingly, I always ran mine at a forward angle.
Thanks for the review Drew, I think nailed it when you talked about compromise, as for the moto comparison, there are any number of reasons why the rider’s position on a moto doesn’t translate to bikes but that’s another conversation.
I agree with part of the premise. One of the issues is that bicycle geo is not designed in many cases to accommodate this, creating some of the issues you spoke about such as cramped knees in technical turns. I would like to try the basic idea with a longer reach bike minimizing that cramped issue or a size up longer reach bike. Just like the mullet set up follows more of the motorcycle design.
Maybe it would work better with a size up bike. It would made more sense cos the weight distribution and reach could be spot on. At 178 cm I ride an S4 Enduro with a 30 mm stem as tall as the fork tube made it possible. I´m questioning about even taller bars.Dakota Norton rides a very high bar,maybe that´s why hehehe.
I love my SQ Lab 30x bars with the 16 degree back-sweeps on a bike with enough reach. 40mm stem and my hands are behind the stem. They looks weird, feel weird when you stand over them, and then as you start descending they feel amazing.
It would be super interesting to see a head2head with this bike and the same model one size down, short but normal stem, and a regular riser bar.
Ran into him at a snow valley bike park and got the chance to try it out, definitely weird at first but also very comfortable. Convinced me to get a 50mm rise bar 😂
Just seen this review. Earlier this summer I had switch to a 45mm stem with a 15* rise and a set of Deity 80mm rise bars. Previous was 70mm stem with a 3* rise with 10mm rise bars. Wow what a difference. I'm keeping the current set up.
I feel like there is something to be said about aesthetics, and this product will probably not take off based on the esthetics alone. However Ive watched a few sizing / bike geometry videos that propose the idea that shorter reaches on smaller bikes proportional for your height, is way more adventitious for handing for the very reason it puts your body position in a more up right position with more bend in both arms and legs. And having taken modern mountain bike instructor training for coaching mtb, this kind of body position is actually ideal for descending. I personally like a, shorter reach higher stack height, short stem and, higher rise swept back handle bars. I also like shorter chainstays and am not a fan of long raked out bikes. So I'm wondering if tweeks to frame geometry, like steeper top tube angle, longer head tube, higher stack height, a zero mm stem, and higher handle bars, would maybe produce a similar handling feel of this raised reverse stem, but with a more proportional esthetic looking bike. Now also considering the climbing penalty of this reverse stem, maybe similar product with a less extreme rise would still provide descending advantage with less penalty to climbing position and be more aesthetically pleasing. I know one thing Im gonna be maxing out my stack height, angling my bars with more sweep back, maybe even get a higher rise bar. Though I just got a new E Thirteen 35mm carbon bar, so probably will just add a stem spacer and mess a bit with the sweep bake of my bar. And will now be open to trying iterations of this bike geometry in future bikes, and cock pit options, considering this fastinating info!
I wonder if dropper stems are in our future.. Drop to climb and rise to decend. I know it sounds crazy
Great review. Interesting concept for sure. It looks like stem is in-line with steerer tube. DId you try rolling bars all the way forward to see how that impacted feel and handling?
I've met him at a SoCal race. Super nice guy
I wonder what advantages this could offer that a longer fork wouldn't do better. Like a longer for will accomplish the same rise in position, but by adding useful travel, and slackening the head angle for more stability
I already use a 75 mm rise bar and have no problems climbing with it. The higher upright position gives me more confidence on steep descents.
It takes pressure off the cervical spine because the rider is more upright - older riders especially need this for comfort. On uphill accents you really need a lower set of bars when you're standing on the peddles.
Bronson is blowing up! Seeing this thing everywhere (could be the algorithm)
waiting for your long term review of fezzari timp peak. especially the 635 wh battery range, and overall handling compared to levo.
Higher rise bars are appearing more often and rise the hands up higher without losing as much reach
seen a couple of these reviews now and I think you nailed it - going to try a taller stack height (more spacers, bar rise, 35mm stem) on my next park bike and see how I like it.
Nice! Thanks for watching and it’s always great to experiment with new stuff and give it a long enough period to get beyond the awkward new phase and see if it really does have positive changes.
@@TheLoamWolf a short stem with a high rise bar can be exactly the same as a long stem and lower bar with more stem spacers. You’d have to do a little math but its important to know that.
@@andrewfife8437 Disagree. You may be able to replicate the riding position to some extent, but a long stem is still a long stem. The effect on steering is far different. I’ve been running 35mm length stems for years and went down to a 32mm this year. When I get on a bike with a 50+ mm stem I feel like I’m steering a boat with a tiller. Think of it as the center point of the handlebar where it clamps in the stem, and it draws an arc around the steering axis. The shorter that radius is, the more direct your steering. I’ve felt for a long time that that is actually more important than the actual fit of the bike, as long as the bike frame is your size. I’m not interested in this wacky thing being reviewed, but I think it’s an interesting concept that deserves to be considered.
@@natepittenger7084 I like people pushing the boundaries too. You're a little off on the stem thing though. Stem length isn't 'real,' but rather what matters is the position the ends of the bars (grips) end up in relative to the steering axis. So you could have a crazy handlebar the has a swoop or something that goes way out in front like a 300 mm stem or something, but if the grips end up in the same spot in this weird hypothetical bar/stem set up, the steering would be exactly the same. So your bar sweep, bar roll, all of that plays a part in steering response. It's just a common and incorrect misunderstanding to think that stem lengths do what they do. Hopefully that clears things up.
@@andrewfife8437This is true. The position of your hands relative to the steering axis is what actually matters for determining the kinematics of the steering geometry and the feel. Looking at stem length alone doesn’t tell you the full story. This is actually the reason that I designed a Raised and Reversed stem instead of a Raised bar with a special shape that could give you this same geometry. A really tall bar is not ideal because it will move your hands quite significantly relative to the steering axis when adjusting bar role, and is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back. Since bar role is highly dependent on personal preferences, running a low rise bar with a Raised stem allows the rider to tune their bar roll to their preference without as significantly changing their hand position relative to the steering axis.
I figured this out on my bike. For a happy medium, I use two spacers and a 75 mm riser bar. I get all the benefits without the negative effects. Got to experiment with your setup and find what works best for you!
Pretty much the same here. 36mm of spacers (maxed out), high stack height bike (Tallboy XXL) and a 75mm riser. A lot of that is due being tall.. but compared to how I used to be set up for XC with a flat bar.. this is so much better. I'm faster through XC trails in addition to the better descending and easier to hop. Even with all that though, my grips are still about 20mm below my seat level. I'd love to try this stem, but not willing to pay $400 for a test ride. I am going to try a $60 90mm rise bar off Amazon though
Just got the new Deity 80mm rise bars 😎
@@crislabossiere6234so did you end up going with the 400 one
Another great review. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
Bronson had a vision to help make gains
As you say it's the space in the legs when it tighter turns and steep climbing that's the main down side
Long as he reaps some reward for the effort he's put into this project then good on him
Mixed Wheel sizes (moto), handlebars behind steering stem (moto), USD and dual crown forks (moto), motorized cycle (moto)...I think I'll just go out and ride my moto 😁
You don’t like your stem low, you’ve learned to like it because that’s all we’ve had
Maybe so!
This
Exactly! You never learn what really works best if you don’t experiment. I started experimenting with all kinds of heights and offsets about 3 years ago. Anything from below traditional to 80mm taller than the RR (Raised Reversed) stem seen here, and offsets from 70mm forward to -50mm Reversed. These were tested in back to back runs always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. In my tests I was very consistently a lot faster, more controlled, and more comfortable with the RR stem than the traditional stems.
I'm sure this raised reversed stem is great on really steep descents, but as mentioned in the video, it has some huge negatives. It emphasises a point that perhaps our current bars are too low, at least for some. I rode for years on what ever the bike came with and always felt I was hunched over the bike like on a XC or road bike trying to get arrow dynamic. Once I realise that, at least for me, all bikes have a much too low bars and sometimes too long a stem, I've gone to riser bars on all my bikes. It has helped comfort wise but also made me feel much more balanced on the bike, especially descents.
Saw this stem on Berm Peak and Seth was very impressed with the functionality of it. Although, Seth wasn't very keen on going up hills with it.
Watched Seth's vid too. As well as downhill bikes, it should work for many trail and enduro bikes. Especially if you shuttle regularly. With a few variations and colors (and maybe better aesthetics) on sale Bronson is onto a winner.
Thanks for sharing Daniel.
Great, honest review ❤
I get it and believe it. Cleaner cooler look would be bmx/moto style 2pc bars with a short stem.
Drew - out of interest what bar height did you end up with? I've been running taller bars on my Murmur for a while now and get a bar height of 112/113cm from the ground (depending on bar and fork travel). I have found it helps as described and doesn't overly get in the way of climbing. Current set up is 70mm rise Ergotec x 12 degree backsweep bars, 20mm spacers and 31mm stem and 170mm fork.
What took you guys so long to make it more like a motorcycle. I've been riding for years with short stem and 3 inch riser bars rolled back a bit. Definitely a plus on downhill and you get used to uphill tech climbs.
If that was an inch shorter and black I'd buy one for sure! Seems like it would put the bars exactly where I want my hands to be when riding
Wouldn’t high rise bars basically have the same benefits? I’m a taller rider and don’t like “the look” of high rise bars, but recently I put on some Spank Spoon 60mm risers and immediately loved them. They feel more like your in the bike vs on top of the bike. More comfortable and stable feeling for me.
I think this stem is more suitable on modern long travel Enduro bikes, on which the reach has increased way too much. So, instead of sizing down, one can go with this stem
it is suite for all of those who take corners slow enough to not have their front wheels wash out.
The bicycle industry is so hard headed. Ive said for years that Motocross bikes have paved the way for MTB development. Disc brakes, suspension, tires, etc. have all started to mirror MX bikes.
I've been running a shorter stem and riser bars for 25 years. It mimics the handling of my CRF450. I run the Pro Taper A76 bars and they work so good.
I took my flat bars off my budget bike and took a conduit bender and swept then back 20 degrees . Now I know you can buy bars withe big back sweeps but I did not want to spend money to find out . Now it forces my hands back a behind the steering tube. It is a more ergonomic comfortable position . It also feels as a better attack position . No clipping the thighs on on tight turns and for me it was free . Yeah it looks to be good in the steep . Reduces the chance of otb .
Some downhill parks should just rent these out, so many people would be curious to try this on their regular bikes at a park. Very curious to see if any downhill racers try it or use it in a race this season. Every upgrade has a downside and it sounds like climbing isn't great with this. That said I really really want to try it haha.
Needs to be converted in some way. Dropper stem / two position folding stem etc. Also without dinging on a good quality CNC piece made in Cali, a high rise bar might be a better and cheaper way to test the same concepts.
Do you think for a bike for lift service only days, this makes sense? It's extreme for a trail or enduro setup, but it seems like for long slack heavy downhill bikes, the drawbacks probably don't matter so much and the strengths would be enhanced?
May be a 'dropper' version is the answer for uphill and tight turns. Don't know if that would even be possible 😂
If it makes folks faster on race day we will see it implemented and eventually adopted in some form. I predict some changes at retail over the next few years that take this into account
I just put a stem extender on my bike and it feels insanely natural. It's not the stem from the video, but it makes my stack about 6in tall. The one difference is that my bars are still in front of the head tube. I rode it for the first time today and I also set a KOM and got 3 separate all time top tens on my first ride.
People say this makes climbing harder, but I disagree. I did a 900 vertical ft climb and had zero issues. Also I was able to climb a large stair set that i usually have issues climbing (it's a personal challenge to try and ride up any stairs i find). So far I only have seen benefits. I also let my buddy try it and he is going to get the same thing. I don't want to love it, but I think I do.
Ha ha thanks for sharing!
A PR on a new bike and stem is huge. It seems worthy of more investigation. Perhaps a bike with a longer reach, more spacers under the stem, narrower bars, ect, could mitigate the negative effects.
This is the most diplomatic review of his opinions I’ve seen. 😂
What if it was half the height or turned forward? Something closer to a DH stem would suit me better.
I ve always preferred riser bars and short stems because of the upright position they give you. I I Always go with minimum 40 mm rise but recently put 60 mm rise bar on one bike and a 80mm rise bar on my other bike and Ii don’t think I will be going back to shorter rise bar.
This idea seems to me like it would mostly benefit the downhill focused category. For a more all rounder ride a short stem and high rise bars will give a more balanced ride feel. Also you can get high rise bars for around 100 $.
Deity and spank make some really tall ones
It’s good to see this part of the bike being looked at more closely. It seems to be an overlooked topic yet it is so important for the overall ride feel of the bike. I also wish bike brands would offer more backsweep options on there bars. I generally find most bars would be more comfortable with more back sweep ?!
I just question being able to get weight on the front end when cornering. Especially since i had bought a longer stem just for that reason...
this stem puts you on the back wheel.. thus, the bike's balance will be off.. thus, your front wheel will massively wash out.
I upsized my frame and, with a longer reach, higher stack and my usual preferred high rise bars and 40mm stem, I should have been faster and more confident on the downs. The problem is, it didn't worked, as my front wheel was washing out in corners... so, I had do drop 1 spacer and also change to a 10mm rise bars... and now my bike feels balanced again.
If you don't do corners and only have mostly straight-ish tracks/trails, then good for you(in fact not!, and the eff with trails that have only bermed corners) but, for mtb-ers who ride on real tracks, this is a joke, sorry.
Mondraker tried it 10 years ago and had similar results in straight line and straight steep tracks.. but, everywhere else, it was a flop. Then again, 10 years ago, mountain biking trails were actual trails, not the bobsled type of tracks we have now.
as far as climbing is concerned, i think you would have to compensate with a longer reach to avoid the cramped effect like you mentioned. so i assume that it would work better on bikes that already have that characteristic
Yeah that’s correct. Good point.
@@TheLoamWolf why not try the stem backwards? It might give you the reach you need for those tricky swithbacks...
@@TheLoamWolf That makes me wonder if sizing a bike up 1 size and then using this stem would be a good combo. Longer wheelbase for more stability. Plus the benefits of the stem. And hopefully enough clearance for switchbacks. could be interesting
it wouldnt be so cramped if u went high up then there would be room for ur leg to go under the bars when u turn them.
@@mauimaxmtb2154 I tried this 2 years ago. I'm 175 cm and went for frame with 470 reach. I put 31mm length stem from renthal and 30 mm rise bars. The front was unstable through roots and rocks. Now I have frame with 450 reach, got 45mm stem and 50 mm riser spank bars, no spacers under the stem.
The bigger bike was Radon Swoop carbon frame, and the small bike is GT Force 2021 alluminum model both 29 inch. Since this experiment I'm not fan of a bigger size frames tbh.
Tanglefoot cycles has rigid bikes(think 90s rigid mtbs modernized) designed around 0° stem. It's part of their whole thing. Sounds like a 15mm longer reach on the bike would solve some issues here.
Works or not any new idea is always welcome
Would love someone to try this backwards ie raised short stem. this would aleviate some of the tight turn issues maybe.
I'm quite new to moutain biking and I've always felt uncomfortable leaning so far over. When I see this, I imagine feeling more stable. I wonder what people that aren't used to the way the handle bars are now would take to this high stem.
Look into the Soma Dream bar
59mm rise and backsweep to being grips closer to you
Make it a "dropper stem" at the flick of a switch shift it forward by 45 degrees for climbing.
I could see something like this excelling on ebikes (where climbing won't be as effected) and DH bikes (where climbing doesn't matter as much).
One big bike brand already tried those kind of stem and didn’t make, not sure if this one gonna make, if it does, congratulations to the new designer
What you think about the timp with the zeb and super deluxe? Super deluxe can handle everything or need an X2?
If you compare the ride position of a Mt biker to a moto cross rider you can see that they have their bars way higher and more like where this is heading. Maybe this stem is not ideal. but heading in the right direction for some riders. Nice to see someone experimenting.
How much of a difference do you think a raised stem with no offset would make?
I woild like to see a frame that accomodate the reach for a 0 stem and riser bar. The only bike that i know about is san quentin the XL has a 17" seat tube.
I've been using 8 inch s and m bmx slam bars on my mtbikes since the 90s
Amazing how many RUclipsrs have been trying this thing. Good for the guy who invented it maybe he’ll sell a couple.
If good for downhill then maybe I should buy one for my DH bike, what about the jumps though? It seems to me that will be awfully on a jump line?
The explanation behind it is pretty interesting. Anyway, as it costs 400$, maybe you can try the same principle by using a stem extender or stem raiser for 15$. Im sure its not the same but ill give it a try on my enduro bike. A dropper stem will be cool, like canyon shapeshifter, In a few years our bikes will be transformers, with IA and hell knows what else...:P
As said on here Amazon £8.65 stem extender then you can play about with your stem and bars to see if it works for you
Anyway you do it, i think increasing the distance between the handlebar grips and the connection to the steerer tube increases leverage and resulting torsional loads to the steerer tube from rider. Ask Archimedes,... I would guess companies like RockShox and Fox would suggest it's not safe and/or they're not to be held liable for failure of the steerer tube.
@@themtchannel2110 yep. I finally gpt a Bontrager adjustable stem for 20€ just to tey it. Just to play around. I will transform the bike into a DH murder machine but not for all trais. The part i want to test is how the fear part, it doesnt take the risks away but will look easier (not sure its a good thing :D)
This open a lot os thinking and tunning. I probably end up with a higher rise bars but lets try it!
@@parisgwyr7865 mebbe make it look less intimidating but seems like bashing the front wheel, throws the rider forward of course. that weight being applied at a greater distance from ground contact may increase the chance of OTB. i'm impressed and take note that TLW got the fast times tho for sure
Would love to see that run on the Grim Donut…
That is exactly why I was frustrated that Rockshox discontinued the RS Zeb Dual; I have 1 on my Levo and looking to get another on my Scott eBike and cant find one anymore. I drop my travel to 150mm on Climbs then switch up to 180mm on DH. Best of both worlds right? I think thats a more viable option than that $400 stem.
Will this product make frame manufacturers not warranty cracked frames since this alters the riders geometry and puts more force on the seat-tube and upper-tubes meet?
How about just putting and dirt jump bar (80 mm) what can be the diference ?
finally, shortened head tubes voices will be heard
How long before we see a dropper stem, where it's high for descending but low (and thus more forward) for climbing?
To make this work in all conditions, the effective reach needs to increase by 6" or so, in order for this motorcross-bike style handlebar height thing (look at the side profile of a motorcross bike and you'll see an incredible similarity), really work as a trailbike, without all the knee clearance & close cockpit problems.
I’ve tried the RR stem on my XL 515mm reach bike. I’m 6’0”. Had no issues with my knees hitting
@@cben86 at 6'0" you could ride a large couldn't you? So sizing up 1 size and using this stem sounds like it might be interesting
@@mauimaxmtb2154 I could ride a large but I came from a bike that was on the shorter side of large and it always felt cramped. The biggest issue I have with larger bikes is that stack does not scale with reach. I'm running an 80mm rise bar and a bunch of spacers so my handlebar grips are about level with my seat at full extension. Makes for much better riding experience. I can't recommend this enough
And 50kg of wight in the front/center area.
6:38 From what I could see, this lack of knee clearance was an issue with technique from not having fully adapted to the RR (Raised Reversed) stem and with bike setup to better suit the RR stem. The RR stem actually works really well on tight switchbacks with the correct technique for using it. I much prefer it over traditional, and find I can turn tighter with greater ease tending now to take the sharper inside line on switchback climbs. What you need to do is tilt the nose of your seat down some, and shift your butt forward on it a bit too. You can combine this with also shifting the seat forward on its rails some. With the seat in this position, it is easier to do a pedal stroke where you bring your knee in towards the frame, as if to point your knee at the stem, without the nose of the saddle getting in the way. Along with that, it helps you to not be so far over the rear on steep climbs so that the front stays down easier. If you are tall, you can even run more spacers underneath the RR stem so that your knees will go under the bar easier. Most times when I am pedaling while turning seated, and the bar could otherwise hit my leg, I simply bring my knee in towards the frame and lean the bike more under me. It’s muscle memory for me now, and I no longer even think about it. Sometimes I even bring my knee further out to clear the bar completely so that it can turn all the way, even to inline with the seat without obstruction. The seat looks to be pushed back on the rails with the nose even pointed up some in these scenes, and the rider is tending to point their knee out in the direction they are turning. It can take some time to adjust techniques that you’ve become used to doing but given a proper chance, traditional 50mm - 35mm stems will actually be the ones that feel really weird and foreign.
Does the stem need that much length? Could it be shorter for a compromise? Feel like it would be good on a slightly bigger bike. If your bike is already a little short, this seems like it would cramp you up a lot???
Maybe needs to be a reverse dropper on steer tube. Up on DH, down when pedaling.
I considered a dropper stem a couple years ago while I was developing the RR stem. Ultimately I moved away from the idea because I found that climbing wasn’t an issue with the RR stem given time to adjust to it and the right technique. I actually greatly prefer climbing with the RR stem relative to a traditional stem, and many of my customers like the climbing more too. With a traditional low and forward offset stem, when you are climbing something steep and trying to leverage yourself forward when pedaling hard, you can’t really pull back on the bars to keep yourself forward without the front end starting to wander and flop around uncontrollably. This is because with the forward offset of traditional stems, the bars pull closer to you when they turn. To compensate for this, riders tend to ride elbows up and pulling more up on the bars. This can lead to the front wheel lifting during hard pedal strokes. Finding that balance between pulling the front up to stop it from wandering, and pulling the bars back to stop it from lifting is a constant challenge that typically is dealt with by lowering your bars so low that you are basically falling forward onto them with straighter arms to support your body. With the Reversed offset of the RR stem, the bars pull closer to you when they stabilize straight, so the front end doesn’t wander and flop around uncontrollably. Because of this, you can ride with low relaxed and bent elbows and shoulders while pulling back and slightly down so that the front isn’t lifting. You can also combine this with tilting the nose of your seat down some, shifting your butt forward on it a bit, and potentially even shifting the seat forward on its rails some. On more mellow climbs, you have a much more comfortable upright position with an open chest for easy breathing, and minimal weight supported on your hands.
Seems like in many ways it is a compensator for improper body position, I question if the confidence from having a more upright body position is going to continue after someone gets used to the taller position. I feel it makes more of a case for taller stack heights on downhill bikes. I haven't heard anyone having issues weighting the front wheel, however if you are dropping pressure in the fork, there is less weight on the front which will take away traction. If moving traction from the front to the back wheel is beneficial does that mean there is a body position issue which could be fixed without the sacrifices of the tall stem?
Ok. This is extreme but nothing has made me question my set up as much as this. Now I’m gonna mess with this idea… moving my hand position closer to a zero offset compared to the steering axis… however negative seems kinda excessive. There’s gotta be a goldilocks zone here for improvement in riding the ups and downs. Thanks for the video.
Yeah you got it. We're definitely going to be experimenting too!
I’m certainly no engineer, but a dual crown enduro fork (c’mon, Formula!) would be able to do many of the same things while improving suspension quality. Take a look at Dak Norton’s cockpit- a ton of spacers under the top crown, upright and short stem with greater support and adjustability.
Better steering, less binding of the fork due to flex, more room for springs and dampers, and a highly adjustable stack.
Wins all around, especially if we can get that dual crown Selva in production that weighs about the same as a Zeb.