Wow! I am really happy to hear how amazing Surefire’s customer service is! Thank you for sharing! This just made up my mind as to who to buy! Now that I know Surefire will backup their products like this, I’m ready to buy! Thanks! I’m so happy you were able to get your damaged products replaced! 😊
Im glad they replaced your barrel. I always get a tap and die that matches the thread pitch of the barrel in case i need to clean up the threads. Things dont always leave the factory how they should be
Really great info, thanks. I’ve put on and taken off a ton of muzzle devices and I’m really surprised this hasn’t happened to me. I’ll definitely try to be aware of the type of threads I’m working with from now on.
Galling happens all the time if your male and female threads don't have enough clearance (class of threads) AND both materials are the same type & grades of steel. Stainless is the worst at galling. (titanium is just as bad) In this instance you needed the proper anti seize on the threads. For very high temps use NICKEL based anti-seize. About 25 years ago I threaded a stainless barrel for a A2 flash hider, using the flash hider as a "gauge" for fitting the threads and a single point threading tool in my lathe. Later the owner of the barrel screwed on a AAC Ranger stainless suppressor that galled. We had to use a hydraulic press to hold the barrel and when removing the suppressor it ripped the threaded end right off the barrel. Had to bore out the suppressor to remove the end of the barrel and internally re-thread it, but it worked. ALWAYS USE ANTI-SEIZE on stainless vs stainless. Iv'e installed many suppressor brakes. If it's properly torqued it won't loosen off. No need for Rocksett as most customers come back later and want the mount removed and installed on a different weapon.
Wow brother! Crazy experience, glad it worked out for you. By the way, I got my Proof setup figured out. Action screws were out of spec and now it shoots lights out! I will say the Proof is very picky when it comes to bullets. Shoots Sierra 168 bthp match 0.5 MOA consistently. Everything else shoots 1 MOA or greater.
I had the SAME exact experience with a brand new Surefire SOCOM MB and new Proof carbon barrel. Same issue, not tools just hand tight. I had two identical MBs. Confirmed the other installed no problem on another Proof barrel. Short story was SF denied any liability and after arguing, they eventually agreed to replace the MB but stated the device was “in spec”. Not the first negative CS experience with SF and looking at the threads on the defective MB, it was clear there were some burs that were not removed before coating.
Class 1-3 are clearance threads. They will all work with each other, and they can be mixed in use. Class 1A, and 2A have allowance for fit on the A(external) thread. Class 3A does not have an allowance, so if an internal thread (class B) tolerance is at the basic pitch diameter and a class 3A is at the basic pitch diameter, this will be "line to line" and you will have a greater chance of galling the threads. Best practice is to clean, then use a threadlocker and assemble, before assembly if you're going to test fit, use anti-seize especially if one or the other threads is SS. Nitride or phosphate will resistant galling.
@@shofardefense The only time you get an interference fit is when 3A and 3B thread forms are mating. That situation is where you get a machined fitment with virtually zero 'slop'. The 1A and 2A thread forms are clearanced to a greater degree with 1A being a very loose fit and as as such, you will notice slop when installing mating parts in either 1A or 2A. There was something amiss in your situation as 2B on the SF Warcomp should have readily installed without galling.
Watched this with my 5yo son. As a former mechanical engineer I made it to the part of the video where you said you degreased the threads and i leaned over and said, "I'll bet you cleaning out the dishwasher that the threads galled after he got it on a couple turns." He's grumbling while unloading the dishwasher right now. Fwiw we used to spec all stainless threaded joints, or stainless to stainless fasteners be lubricated with loctite 567 or equivalent. Even just stainless threaded rod with a stainless nut got the the pipe sealant. Oil works 95% of the time but the 567 always worked.
You are definitely correct. I didn't know that at the time and was following the directions on Surefire's video. I definitely know now, and hopefully, this video saves someone else from having the same problem.
@@shofardefense I agree it's probably not common knowledge outside of engineering and some technical trades. I appreciate the video trying to save others the trouble you went through.
I just had to do the same removal technique...bouthgt a geissele upper from a local guy an he had threadlocked the muzzle brake on while i wanted to use surefires 3 prong for their suppresser...im glad it handt fully set as i put near 150 ft lbs to remove it...am a mechanic by hobby or i may not have had the strength to remove it...proper torque works just fine
Just take the messed up threads down and clean them up with a file. Then use the correct thread pitch and screw on the appropriate one after lubing it of course. It can be saved.
Soft stainless steel has low Charpy strength (corner strength). threads are nothing but a bunch of corners. 300 series stainless and non-hardened 400 series stainless is known to gull in the threads. at works I specify stainless parts with threads to be hardened, this prevents the gulling. It is possible the barrel material or the attachment were softer materials basically below 35-40 Rockwell C in the threads. 416 barrel steel is usually 35 Rockwell C and up. If you drop that attachment on the concrete and it dents, that means its soft. it is is not damaged then the barrel is soft. in order to start the gulling process the stainless needs to have micro fractures from friction in the surface and the fractures open up and the material from one of the components enters those fractures, and boom you have gulled the threads. if the material is hard enough it will not fracture from friction. I suggest using pipe tape for a grease free barrier. I have messed up printed call out on 2 and 3 classes of threads with littles issues in stainless. class 3 has the tightest fit and class 1 has the loosest fit for perspective with class 2 being the standard fit.
Fine threads are more prone to galling. Stainless is more prone to gall. Lubrication is needed to help prevent galling. Don't feel bad. This is not common knowledge. I know because I'm a millwright /machinist for 20 years. And to be honest I have never heard of class 2 or 3 threads. I guess I learned something today. The threads on my proof barrel are extremely precise. The machining is on par or better than high pressure swedge lock fittings. No experience with surefire but I will soon.
no idea if you've asked them again, but I think it would be because they are in the same military support/discount group where they are working together.
I’m just letting people know. The shit isn’t gonna work now because of that orange paper insert that they put in the muzzle device package saying he uses class three threads that you don’t want to use a different class 3B3 whatever class two whatever type of thread
Never was a fan of rock set or any other glue on barrel threads. I’ve galled a couple myself. I’m a big fan of using anti seize. You can buy that at the auto parts store.
I’m guessing proof research does stainless barrels? If so you need to put never seize of the threads…I’m a metal fabricator and stainless galls very fast
They are stainless. I agree. I think the problem is that rockset won't set with never seize on, so they instruct people to clean and degrease it first. The trick, in my opinion, is using never seize to put it on several times to season the threads and then removing that to put on the rockset.
Same. Exact. Thing. With my 18“ neither surefire or proof seemed surprised. I sent both the barrel and brake out to surefire next day. How long did it take for the replacement barrel?
It took about 2 months for them to determine they were going to replace the barrel. However, it took about 2 more months to get it because proof was out of my barrel at the time. Let me know how it goes for you.
@@shofardefense they’re replacing both but unfortunately I still have to send the new barrel out to get modified for my lmt upper. They didn’t say it was because of the thread class though which was odd. Said it was probably an end run brake. I had that brake on my a rainer arm’s barrel that sucked so I sent it back.
That really sucks once all the said and done, the barrel itself is 1000 bucks Now be aware your fire on their most recent muzzled devices have an orange Paper that tells you the class of threads that will work with it and do not use it with that because they’re not gonna be liable as does a company that makes your hundred dollar muzzle delays thousand dollar suppressor but they wanna lose $1000 every time someone takes a chunk of threads out of the barrel course not so companies of getting even high end companies they’ve been getting very very like where they used to be like oh we could do that for you no problem or let me check. We might actually have some MK 13 hangover still are not the same as they used to be
There is ONLY one way any Surefire muzzle devise goes on. Dimple down! It’s a suppressor adaptor and blast diffuser adaptor. Only one way to put it on. The locking lugs must be at the bottom 6pm
If barrek threads come off just from tightening a muzzle device on then its a garabge barrel no mstter the price and hype. Ive put on a million different muzzle devices and brakes and all types of everything and have never had this happening. The barrel threads had to be off. Yes school of american rifle explains the importance of chekcing whay type of threads they are
Could have saved yourself a lot of pain by simply applying some kroil oil and let it seep into the threads apply a little bit of heat to the break that will help pull the oil into the threads and it would have turned right off never try to turn a break off that you turned on to a thread dry if it seizes up without trying this technique first might save you ruining the threads
I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure it would have helped. It was seized because on a molecular level the two surfaces had literally welded together.
Wow! I am really happy to hear how amazing Surefire’s customer service is! Thank you for sharing! This just made up my mind as to who to buy! Now that I know Surefire will backup their products like this, I’m ready to buy! Thanks! I’m so happy you were able to get your damaged products replaced! 😊
You just saved me from a disaster. I’m doing a 11.5 bcm/ proof barrel with a surefire warcomp.
Glad it helped. That's the reason I made the video.
Im glad they replaced your barrel. I always get a tap and die that matches the thread pitch of the barrel in case i need to clean up the threads. Things dont always leave the factory how they should be
Really great info, thanks. I’ve put on and taken off a ton of muzzle devices and I’m really surprised this hasn’t happened to me. I’ll definitely try to be aware of the type of threads I’m working with from now on.
Galling happens all the time if your male and female threads don't have enough clearance (class of threads) AND both materials are the same type & grades of steel. Stainless is the worst at galling. (titanium is just as bad) In this instance you needed the proper anti seize on the threads. For very high temps use NICKEL based anti-seize. About 25 years ago I threaded a stainless barrel for a A2 flash hider, using the flash hider as a "gauge" for fitting the threads and a single point threading tool in my lathe. Later the owner of the barrel screwed on a AAC Ranger stainless suppressor that galled. We had to use a hydraulic press to hold the barrel and when removing the suppressor it ripped the threaded end right off the barrel. Had to bore out the suppressor to remove the end of the barrel and internally re-thread it, but it worked. ALWAYS USE ANTI-SEIZE on stainless vs stainless. Iv'e installed many suppressor brakes. If it's properly torqued it won't loosen off. No need for Rocksett as most customers come back later and want the mount removed and installed on a different weapon.
Good information. I appreciate it.
some very valuable information! thanks for sharing sir! on my quest for a bolt action build barrel right now and really looking at proof
Yes sir. I hope it helps.
Been there done that, but with rocksett in the mix. I now order new muzzle device for each new barrel.
Dang this is really good info. Thanks sir
Hope it helps
Wow brother! Crazy experience, glad it worked out for you. By the way, I got my Proof setup figured out. Action screws were out of spec and now it shoots lights out! I will say the Proof is very picky when it comes to bullets. Shoots Sierra 168 bthp match 0.5 MOA consistently. Everything else shoots 1 MOA or greater.
Shalom shalom my brother. Bless you! I'm glad you got it worked out. I look forward to seeing you at the feast.
This is a good video, thank you for taking the time to put this out.
You're welcome. I hope it helps.
If you want the corner the whole holster market. Come up with a good holster that accommodates your suppressor attached
I had the SAME exact experience with a brand new Surefire SOCOM MB and new Proof carbon barrel. Same issue, not tools just hand tight. I had two identical MBs. Confirmed the other installed no problem on another Proof barrel. Short story was SF denied any liability and after arguing, they eventually agreed to replace the MB but stated the device was “in spec”. Not the first negative CS experience with SF and looking at the threads on the defective MB, it was clear there were some burs that were not removed before coating.
Sorry to hear that. I'm a little surprised surefire didn't respond better just based off the experience I had with them.
Class 1-3 are clearance threads. They will all work with each other, and they can be mixed in use. Class 1A, and 2A have allowance for fit on the A(external) thread. Class 3A does not have an allowance, so if an internal thread (class B) tolerance is at the basic pitch diameter and a class 3A is at the basic pitch diameter, this will be "line to line" and you will have a greater chance of galling the threads. Best practice is to clean, then use a threadlocker and assemble, before assembly if you're going to test fit, use anti-seize especially if one or the other threads is SS. Nitride or phosphate will resistant galling.
Do you have any suggestions on reading or videos where I can get more info regarding the classes?
Machinist handbook, any edition will do , read the chapter on threads, you'll have a better understanding.
@@shofardefense The only time you get an interference fit is when 3A and 3B thread forms are mating. That situation is where you get a machined fitment with virtually zero 'slop'. The 1A and 2A thread forms are clearanced to a greater degree with 1A being a very loose fit and as as such, you will notice slop when installing mating parts in either 1A or 2A. There was something amiss in your situation as 2B on the SF Warcomp should have readily installed without galling.
Watched this with my 5yo son. As a former mechanical engineer I made it to the part of the video where you said you degreased the threads and i leaned over and said, "I'll bet you cleaning out the dishwasher that the threads galled after he got it on a couple turns." He's grumbling while unloading the dishwasher right now.
Fwiw we used to spec all stainless threaded joints, or stainless to stainless fasteners be lubricated with loctite 567 or equivalent. Even just stainless threaded rod with a stainless nut got the the pipe sealant. Oil works 95% of the time but the 567 always worked.
You are definitely correct. I didn't know that at the time and was following the directions on Surefire's video. I definitely know now, and hopefully, this video saves someone else from having the same problem.
@@shofardefense I agree it's probably not common knowledge outside of engineering and some technical trades. I appreciate the video trying to save others the trouble you went through.
Anti-seize compound
I just had to do the same removal technique...bouthgt a geissele upper from a local guy an he had threadlocked the muzzle brake on while i wanted to use surefires 3 prong for their suppresser...im glad it handt fully set as i put near 150 ft lbs to remove it...am a mechanic by hobby or i may not have had the strength to remove it...proper torque works just fine
Just take the messed up threads down and clean them up with a file. Then use the correct thread pitch and screw on the appropriate one after lubing it of course. It can be saved.
Exactly what I would've done
Soft stainless steel has low Charpy strength (corner strength). threads are nothing but a bunch of corners. 300 series stainless and non-hardened 400 series stainless is known to gull in the threads. at works I specify stainless parts with threads to be hardened, this prevents the gulling. It is possible the barrel material or the attachment were softer materials basically below 35-40 Rockwell C in the threads. 416 barrel steel is usually 35 Rockwell C and up. If you drop that attachment on the concrete and it dents, that means its soft. it is is not damaged then the barrel is soft. in order to start the gulling process the stainless needs to have micro fractures from friction in the surface and the fractures open up and the material from one of the components enters those fractures, and boom you have gulled the threads. if the material is hard enough it will not fracture from friction.
I suggest using pipe tape for a grease free barrier. I have messed up printed call out on 2 and 3 classes of threads with littles issues in stainless. class 3 has the tightest fit and class 1 has the loosest fit for perspective with class 2 being the standard fit.
That's great information. I appreciate it.
Fine threads are more prone to galling. Stainless is more prone to gall. Lubrication is needed to help prevent galling. Don't feel bad. This is not common knowledge. I know because I'm a millwright /machinist for 20 years. And to be honest I have never heard of class 2 or 3 threads. I guess I learned something today. The threads on my proof barrel are extremely precise. The machining is on par or better than high pressure swedge lock fittings. No experience with surefire but I will soon.
The Proof threads are definitely precise. Overall, it was a good learning lesson. I appreciate your comment, sir.
Surefire Mounts.... many are undersized!!!
4 barrels destroyed, Surefire replaced the barrels.
The Warcomp are also prone to leaks gas
Lube it up before you use it! Good info 👍!
Had this same issue when installing a Surefire comp on a new barrel. Had to trash the entire set up. Luckily it was a cheap barrel.
great video! but hey definitely invest in a bluetooth mic. I will be subscribing regardless
Yes sir, we've purchased good mics. Thanks for the subscribe.
Same thing happened to me with a rainier match barrel and surefire break. Difference is surefire told me to pound sand so to speak.
I'm surprised to hear that about Surefire's response. They were extremely helpful when this happened to me.
no idea if you've asked them again, but I think it would be because they are in the same military support/discount group where they are working together.
I’m just letting people know. The shit isn’t gonna work now because of that orange paper insert that they put in the muzzle device package saying he uses class three threads that you don’t want to use a different class 3B3 whatever class two whatever type of thread
That's good info. It's definitely best to match the threads properly, but to also use lubrication when first putting it on.
Never was a fan of rock set or any other glue on barrel threads. I’ve galled a couple myself. I’m a big fan of using anti seize. You can buy that at the auto parts store.
I’m guessing proof research does stainless barrels? If so you need to put never seize of the threads…I’m a metal fabricator and stainless galls very fast
They are stainless. I agree. I think the problem is that rockset won't set with never seize on, so they instruct people to clean and degrease it first. The trick, in my opinion, is using never seize to put it on several times to season the threads and then removing that to put on the rockset.
I had this happen with an x-caliber carbon barrel and a out of a drawer brake…. Ruined a vet expensive barrel
Same. Exact. Thing. With my 18“ neither surefire or proof seemed surprised. I sent both the barrel and brake out to surefire next day. How long did it take for the replacement barrel?
It took about 2 months for them to determine they were going to replace the barrel. However, it took about 2 more months to get it because proof was out of my barrel at the time. Let me know how it goes for you.
They ended up cleaning the threads and crown and replacing the muzzle device.
Are you happy with the result?
Just found this out the hard way 😡. Really hope surefire makes it right
I hope they do too. Hopefully, more people can see this video and avoid the problem. Let me know how it turns out.
@@shofardefense they’re replacing both but unfortunately I still have to send the new barrel out to get modified for my lmt upper. They didn’t say it was because of the thread class though which was odd. Said it was probably an end run brake. I had that brake on my a rainer arm’s barrel that sucked so I sent it back.
APA would have been your friend in this situation, live and learn.
Help me out. What is APA?
That really sucks once all the said and done, the barrel itself is 1000 bucks Now be aware your fire on their most recent muzzled devices have an orange Paper that tells you the class of threads that will work with it and do not use it with that because they’re not gonna be liable as does a company that makes your hundred dollar muzzle delays thousand dollar suppressor but they wanna lose $1000 every time someone takes a chunk of threads out of the barrel course not so companies of getting even high end companies they’ve been getting very very like where they used to be like oh we could do that for you no problem or let me check. We might actually have some MK 13 hangover still are not the same as they used to be
There is ONLY one way any Surefire muzzle devise goes on. Dimple down! It’s a suppressor adaptor and blast diffuser adaptor. Only one way to put it on. The locking lugs must be at the bottom 6pm
Surefire disagrees with you
If barrek threads come off just from tightening a muzzle device on then its a garabge barrel no mstter the price and hype. Ive put on a million different muzzle devices and brakes and all types of everything and have never had this happening. The barrel threads had to be off. Yes school of american rifle explains the importance of chekcing whay type of threads they are
Could have saved yourself a lot of pain by simply applying some kroil oil and let it seep into the threads apply a little bit of heat to the break that will help pull the oil into the threads and it would have turned right off never try to turn a break off that you turned on to a thread dry if it seizes up without trying this technique first might save you ruining the threads
I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure it would have helped. It was seized because on a molecular level the two surfaces had literally welded together.