Thats definetly one of the things that creeps me out most about krakoa, everyone seems very "docile" with these changes. Its truly genius how Hickman builds suspense in hoxpox even when no one is in any danger. Loved this video, thank u so much for searching my theory!!
yeah, a lot of characters wouldn't be cool with it or would have some issues to say the least so it'd be interesting to see a series showing how they were convinced but i think it was necesary for Hickman to skip that stuff to make HoX/PoX more exciting. Also we still haven't seen a lot of characters interact in krakoa so i think it will take a while to get a series during the time gap
"Why would Charles and Moira wait so long to begin their plan?" My guess (and it's just a guess) is that they needed mutantkind to go through the trials, tribulations, and trauma to have enough social capital to create a whole new culture (and from where it's going, perhaps even a new religion). As a real world corollary, the traumatic history of the Jewish diaspora informs so much of past and current Israeli politics; perhaps Charles/Moira wanted to manufacture the same political dynamic in their own nation-state? Might tie in into HoXPoX, which essentially started with Magneto (a holocaust survivor) in Jerusalem. As a side bonus, I could also see the traumatic history giving mutants a better understanding of what's at stake: the X-Men suicide mission to destroy the Mother Mold. It also helps that the X-Men and plenty of other mutants now know how to rage war because of real life experience. Scott Summers at - say - age 15 wouldn't have that. That ends my TedTalk. :p
I have a related but different explanation. It's not a coincidence that Krakoa arose after the resurrections of Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, and Xavier. I think that Krakoa happened because these 4 figureheads of the X-Men got to see that nothing gets better. That their attempts to make the world better ultimately fail and that their sacrifices are for nothing. They get a stark illustration that nothing changes if they continue doing what they've already done for so long so all they can do now is try something else. And that something else is to listen to Moira and start actually fighting for the place they deserve in the world versus fighting for others with the hope. that their place will appear.
Regarding Jean's change in ideologies, just because right now she's living and helping the development of Krakoa and currently the island mostly only allows mutants doesn't mean that it will be that way forever. The way i see it is that she (and a lot of other characters) understand that the mutants have been through real hard times and they need to reagroup and become stronger again before being able to live with humans again. Charles said in the 4th issue of X-men that he hasn't fully given up on his dream, it's just changed a bit
Yeah I agree but I do hope that Krakoa isn't suddenly opened to humans too, just seems devaluing of it. Plus ofc, you'd need the permission of Krakoa itself.
I think the endgame of current Krakoan geopolitics is exactly the opposite: In time, as Mutant population grows, Krakoa will absorb other political entities. First Genosha, then, who knows? Population should be 100% mutant before such assimilations, and it's unlikely that we'll ever see a case in a comic, but that's the probable outcome. Also, humans can get into other Krakoan territories, just not the main Island
I'm also re-reading the Claremont era X-men and it's really fun to do that with the Moira/Xavier/Magneto retcon in mind. The retcon works pretty well, except for one thing : Moira’s death, which will need some further retconning IMHO (Xavier and Jean really experienced the death of the Shiar Golem. It also explains why Xavier, while being a good guy, regularly does some very uncool things (I am all for this retcon, I never liked Xavier being something else than a benevolent person). It saves both times where Magneto stopped being a simple villain (Once in the Claremont era and more recently Cullen Bunn's run in the Magneto series). If I'm not mistaken, Stryfe's Strike Files did hint at the fact than neither Xavier nor Magneto could save mutantkind on their own, That their only hope was to work together in order to change the world. if it was not in the SSF, it was definitely worded at some time in the 90's. Sinister long obsession of collecting Mutants DNA, was NEVER explained. Hickman solved that in a very unexpected and clever way (The resurrection protocoles). Yes, Sinister is like a gardener that looks after Mutantkind and uses soft evolution to direct or preserve it and its purity from fatal interferences like Apocalypse, but that is not an endgame in itself. Sinister's goal/endgame was NEVER explained. EDIT : I was wrong on this one : he wanted to create race of... himself to populate the earth. fanfix.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/mister-sinisters-origin/ I am so curious to see Hickman's explanation about him : - Collecting Human DNA. - Collecting all the Summers brothers. Waiting for Apocalypse to be ready works very well too : Apocalypse did evolve a lot as a character between his first apparition in X-Factor and Hox/Pox. Same for all the villain Mutants : through decades of publications, all factions tried to pushed their agenda and failed. While surprising at first while discovering Hox/Pox, having them all join Krakoa actually makes sense : They all went through so much sh*t and failed attempts, that they all know or feel that they won’t achieve anything meaningful for the mutant race if they don’t finally unite. Some might simply enjoy having a secure home and let the fight behind them. Due to Mike Carey’s run, I believe Exodus is happy to be at the sides of both Xavier and Magneto, which he both respects. Sinister is an assh*ole and has his own unknown agenda, but Xavier and Magneto need him and his DNA data-bank badly. The one I really wonder about is Apocalypse. His ultimate goal was once to use twelve mutants to ascend to godhood and reign on a darwinist Earth. I wonder if he still has that dream, or if he moved on. While I have no problem to believe that he might happily go with the ride (and why not ? He is immortal, so he can wait to see where all this goes or desist if he gets bored, disapproves or thinks of newer plans while having so many Omega Mutants in his surrounding), I just can’t help thinking that he either suspects or knows that there is more to Krakoa than Xavier and Magneto let on. I also cannot believe that Moira second life ended just by accident. That her plane crashed just because of bad luck ? No, there is no coincidence in a Jonathan Hickman stay. That life ended because of some time-travel/whatever sh*t. Someone tried to stop Moira’s reincarnations for good if you ask me ! Can't wait to see how the Time-travelers fit into this (Old Cable/Kid Cable/Stryfe). Bishop's past does not seem relevant anymore after the whole "messiah Saga", and Ahab and his future also seem irrelevant after the Days of Future yet to come, Extermination and the latest X-Force iteration. Althought there is a second younger Ahab from the present and our reality, and not from Rachel Grey's future somewhere in the 616 present (Not the one coming from Rachel's future, the one created by Apocalypse during "The Twelve" crossover). I wonder if Hickman will build on that or ignore it. Hickman really did a great new starting point based on all than came before. You can feel how he organized the hot mess that the X-Men universe became into something that is structured and finally making sense. I can’t wait for what comes next ! May his reign last long ! :)
awwww yeah, I am very into your Moira's second life theory! Taps into something I've been wondering about: What if there was somebody else like Moira? What if there were a whole lot of somebody elses like Moira?
It said in one of the X books that Moira faked her own death . She is still in hiding right now and don't want people to know she is alive . the Hickman era books are a great read right now and some more then others everyone have their favorite Characters . Still want to find what is up with Kitty and why she can't comeback . Havok is my favorite Marvel character and the Summers Family getting another member can't wait to find out who they are . Some of my theories are maybe finally making Adam X codename X-Treme a brother or even Gambit asit was said in X Men The End Event . Now i have a new off the wall Theory what if Orphan Maker is a brother . Nanny put him in the Armor because he can't control his powers but if never said what his powers where so may soon he will loose the Armor .
@@Comicbookherald What if there was someone else like Moira ? Wow, now I get Vertigo ! :D I would not be surprised if someone was able to sort of travel between Moira's life, or at least was watching her and either use her or try to move her in some direction. After all, the Nimrod/Bastion/Sentinels of the future were never shy about coming back to our present. Or maybe the Sentient Black Holes Dominions do suspect something after year 1000 Apocalypse X-Men got sucked into Xorn's own black hole and they are trying to stop Moira. So many possibilities !!! One more thing : When Cable arrived for the very first time in our era, the first "X-Men" he met were Moira and Rahne. uncannyxmen.net/comics/issue/cable-minus-1 It was also implied that : - Cable arrived at our time with his full powers on. (Cable minus 1). Rahne forgot about that first meeting ! Never explained. - A bit later. Cable met Xavier, BUT, Xavier never remember that first encounter as implied in Cable#8,page 27. After that (because of that ?) Cable somehow lost his telepathic powers. That loss was also never explained. I always thought he lost his TP powers to make Xavier forget about him. Question is : Why did Cable have Xavier and Rahne forget about him, but not Moira ? I really hope Hickman will integrate this in his story. I really wonder what Moira's opinion of the time-travelers like Cable/Bishop/RachelSummers/Stryfe/Genesis is. That Moira retcon is really fascinating !
@@havokan45 So I am not the only one thinking that Orphan Maker is a Summer brother !!! :) while fighting X-Factor for the first time (X-Factor #31), he resisted Cyclops eyebeam without problem, which is a feature of the Summers brothers. Cyclops thought it was the armour, but pleeeease ;) On top of that, Orphan-Maker was held prisoner at Sinister's orphanage. His power turned on in Generation X #2-4 issue by Scott Lobdell : he throws bullets made of... bone. Quite lame powers IMHO. X-Treme was supposed to be a Summer Brother. Still is if you ask me. And Nanny is... Sara Grey, Jean Grey's sister ;) She worked for The Right, and when she discovered that they were anti-mutants, they abducted her at her home, and turned her into Nanny. Hence her light telepathic powers. If you look at what we know from Sara Grey and Nanny, it all intersects perfectly. I don't know if Lobdell and Nicieza knew about that. I always believed that the Sara Grey we saw in the Phalanx Covenant crossover was just a projection of Sara grey's mind, not her since she was Nanny all along. I Believe Hickman connected the dots, because it can't be a coincidence that Alex Summers, Nanny and Orphan Maker are part of the new Hellions team and already on their way to Sinister former orphanage ! I long believed that Gambit was a Summers Brother, because he is the only X-Man that NEVER got hit by Cyclops eye beam (!!!) but he was originaly supposed to be Sinister (created at the time by Claremont as an old and very powerful telepath stuck in a kid body) in telepathic disguise, but the Cajun was so popular he became his own character :) Just for the sake of mentioning it : Under Claremont, Nanny/Orphan Maker and Sinister were inspired by Peter Pan : Sinister original design by Silvestri was actually an evil Peter Pan ! Since Sinister's apparence was a mental projection, Silvestri gave it the look of a very cool Bad Guy as seen by a child. Same can be said of Gambit looks. And while we're at it : Ahab as created by Claremont and Alan Davis was not Roderick Campbell, but was supposed to be Alistaire Stuart. Funny thing is that Rodrick Campbell shares a lot with Alistaire Stuart : a love story with Rachel Summers and his life destroyed by his affiliation with mutants (Alistair Stuart sister died so). That would explained why Cable kinda find Ahab familiar in the cross-over "Days of future present" : he probably met Alistaire Stuart and his sister after coming to our era. After all, their job as W.H.O. was to investigate mutants in the United kingdom at the time.
Nanny worked for the Right i think it was when they found out she was a Mutant locker her in the their egg armor . in Uncanny X Men like 247 i think it is Nanny turned Storm , Havok , Dazzler, in to kids . Havok and Dazzler as kids was put in to armor like Orphan Maker's Colossus bust's them out . Havok is still in a daze shoots at Nanny ship and ship falls to the ground with what was believed to be Storm body at the time Outback X Men is my favorite X Men team of all time Havok , Storm, Longshot , Dazzler, Rogue, Colossus, Psylocke , Wolverine .
Her plan was for mutants to be recognized as a nation, yes--as a people that are bound together by their commonality of being mutants, but still integrated along with the rest of humanity, not as a separate entity, segregated from humanity itself, living on an Island. She wanted to continue the dream that Charles Xavier originally had, of having both mutants and humans living together in peace. With Krakoa, it's the opposite of what her idea was to be. In my opinion, Jean, like many others, are operating out of character, and I think Charles is responsible for that, with Moira masterminding as well. We will see though.
Loving your content. Please keep up the great work. This is the best up and coming comics channel I've seen in the last 6 months. Thanks so much to you and your team, if applicable.
Great video. I think Jordan or Hickman confirmed that Charles was in Fantom X's body, but was resurrected in his original body after his X-Force death. They say that he is even drawn less muscular after that. I'm not sure if they were trolling though.
I'm also going through Claremont's X-men run (using your reading order) and I think seeing what doesn't really work with retconning would be super interesting. It would also be a good way to revisit interpreting Moira's journals now that we have more information and more DoX issues.
That 6 month gap between Rosenberg's and Hickman's run is Hickman saying: "You can do what you want after i'm gone...but, give me my damn money on trades. My shit is gold."
Good video. With the non-releases of Marvel comics, I'm wondering how the planned new series and the resolution of the X-Men/Fantastic 4 mini would "color" your predictions if they were released on schedule. My vote is on the ret-con issue. I'm always balancing how far to go back in X-men history with Hickman's current take on the mutants.
Yeah, it's sad to reflect on the alternate reality where the X-Men Free Comic Book Day 2020 issue was already released, and all my theories are about something else entirely. New Marauders in two weeks, though!
I know what we are told are the rules of Krakoa and to the resurrection protocols who is to say there weren't/aren't duplicates of Charlie X or others roaming around at the same time or all kicking it in Moira's secret spot?
Let's not forget that when we last saw Illyana she was stomping around a military base like a Doom boss having lost her mutant powers and gone full Darkchylde. Next we see her in DOX she's chugging coffee and wielding a different sword without a hint of her demonic side mentioned since.
I think a lot of that has to do because she’s an omega level mutant and right now things are pretty quite/peaceful on Krakoa. Her character will probably be more flushed out when a big event occurs. Similar to how Vulcan is behaving.
You didn't speak about Magik. She lost her powers and became the Darkchylde before the time skip When she came back she had her powers, no Darkchylde and she wasn't the ruler of Limbo anymore. How did that all happen?
Avengers on Krakoa; Wolverine, Beast, Sunspot, Sunfire, Cannonball, Justice, Firestar, Kid Omega, Namor, Storm, Rogue, Sabretooth, Havok, Dazzler, Squirrel Girl & Old Man Cable. X-gene drive power set, who have appeared as Avengers in publications. The Great Lakes Avengers changed to GL-X for a panel, but unsure if they are X-gene mutants or fall into anther category. Roy Thomas's Bloodhawk of Avengers 179-180 (circa 1979) was called a Mutant by Hank McCoy, but in retrospect more likely an inhuman.
"Giant Size Nightcrawler, that actually was Giant Size Cypher, but wasn't called that way, obviously for marketing reasons"... big LOL. (Both are two of my fave Marvel characters, I'd put Doug over Kurt, though but not with much distance between them)
Where’s Layla Miller (the girls that knows stuff). We’ve seen Jamie Madrox and his clones and not her. I don’t see him leaving her and there child alone on a farm, while he lives in Krakoa. I need that explained from Hickman.
Yeah this is a good question. The Madrox piece could just be at least one version w/ Layla and co, but I'm curious what impact her powers might have on the visions of mutantkind's future.
I think the plan is to take away the sides. Sacrifice is always brought up. So why not be the enemy too. Eventually mutant and machine merg, which will make the phalanx more chaotic maybe?
Now we've seen Farouk on Krakoa but people seem to forget that Farouk and Shadow King is two entities. Farouk is a mutant while shadow king is something completely different... some kind of parasite. I wouldn't be surprised however if SK is mucking around in Xaviers head ever since Xavier pulled the bodysnatch move. Something is very very wrong with Krakoa.
I'm not convinced that Miss Sinister is a clone. I think Sinister's original subconscious is in the body of Black Womb. She was even wearing the same outfit Black Womb was last seen in, & it was not absolutely confirmed that Black Womb died in that fight.
Could Havok's resurrection issues somehow stem from his time inhabiting the evil Havok of the Mutant X universes body over the inversion? he acted as a temporary nexus of all realities throughout a sizeable portion of that series run, perhaps there's some residual effects lingering from that ?
Thing I don't think you(CBH) get is if Moira showed Xavier his own future that future multiple times and at an early age a lot of stuff that would have happened didn't in this life time.
this is the "Out" Marvel has should this new idea of the X-men bombs. The X-men, the originals, are imprisoned under Krakoa, like Sabertooth. every X-men seen is a resurrected clone. Their personality has been altered by Xavier to his "preferred" version. (Cyclops the good little solider, Jean Grey as Marvel Girl, Vulcan as a good little mutant, etc) I believe Mystique will eventually discover this as she will "burn it all down" The other theory is that Moira jumps to her last life and all this has been yet another attempt to change things.
If all of Hickman’s run is simply an alternate timeline/universe similar to Age of Apocalypse that would be pretty crazy. A definite possibility but given Hickman’s success with FF, Avengers, New Avengers and Secret Wars run, I doubt this X-men won’t be the real deal.
@@210SAi That is certainly a way out that they teased early on in the run the "10 possibly one more if you play it right" line Destiny dropped before Moira got fried by Pyro.
if you are thinking about covering pax romana, you should also look into transhuman. it covers a lot of the same ideias of the x^3 timeline and in the end the "x-men" win
@@ThatJewishKid11 No worries! It's difficult to explain, but her main thing is that she can kinda create visions and illusions of people's thoughts and dreams/nightmares. This is what the famous New Mutants story "Demon Bear" and the New Mutants film are about! She is also a member of The Valkyries - An Asgardian all female group of warriors!
The thing with Havok does have a potential explanation in hellions that does NOT involve the personality inversion of Axis= The return of the Goblin Queen. Remember that Alex once had a thing with Maddy during the time she was corrupted and became the Goblin Queen. During the Inferno, for a time Alex fell under her sway and she called him her Goblin Prince. Then at end of Hellions we see she's back. So maybe Alex is having a resurgence of Goblin Prince personality resonating with the Goblin Queen. Sure She's been back before and nothing was shown of it affecting Alex, but that may be because she wasn't trying to influence him them vs now she is. With Blindfold, its possible that no one asks why she's not there because they think its because the authorities "respecting her choices' and not reverse the suicide. You mentioned the change in Jean Grey but not in Kitty/Kate. And No I don't mean her name change or the presumed "more aggressive" (she always did have a violent side, just recent years downplayed her and made her more boring & ooc) No I mean the change of her leading the X-Men and having the Outreach Center in Central Park to working with Krakoa. Like the pre-Dawn of X Jean Grey, the former Kitty Pryde was about trying to integrating the two factions. Both women had their moments and speeches about no us vs them, we're all the same. Then BOOM we get Krakoa and neither are voicing discontent at the separation that goes against their previous works. I've heard some people think that this is an AU or recreated world akin to the AoA, instead of being the mainstream. What are your thoughts on that?
Rahne isn't dead. I just bought Wolverine: Rahne of Terra. I also bought a tonne of the original New Mutants Series from the 80's.. Over $1500.00 in comics including Wolverine 1rst & 2nd series plus the original Uncanny. This new crap isn't doing it for me.
Thats definetly one of the things that creeps me out most about krakoa, everyone seems very "docile" with these changes. Its truly genius how Hickman builds suspense in hoxpox even when no one is in any danger. Loved this video, thank u so much for searching my theory!!
yeah, a lot of characters wouldn't be cool with it or would have some issues to say the least so it'd be interesting to see a series showing how they were convinced but i think it was necesary for Hickman to skip that stuff to make HoX/PoX more exciting. Also we still haven't seen a lot of characters interact in krakoa so i think it will take a while to get a series during the time gap
OMG I loved the Rosenberg run on Uncanny X-Men, can’t believe you didn’t
"Why would Charles and Moira wait so long to begin their plan?"
My guess (and it's just a guess) is that they needed mutantkind to go through the trials, tribulations, and trauma to have enough social capital to create a whole new culture (and from where it's going, perhaps even a new religion). As a real world corollary, the traumatic history of the Jewish diaspora informs so much of past and current Israeli politics; perhaps Charles/Moira wanted to manufacture the same political dynamic in their own nation-state? Might tie in into HoXPoX, which essentially started with Magneto (a holocaust survivor) in Jerusalem. As a side bonus, I could also see the traumatic history giving mutants a better understanding of what's at stake: the X-Men suicide mission to destroy the Mother Mold. It also helps that the X-Men and plenty of other mutants now know how to rage war because of real life experience. Scott Summers at - say - age 15 wouldn't have that.
That ends my TedTalk. :p
I have a related but different explanation. It's not a coincidence that Krakoa arose after the resurrections of Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, and Xavier. I think that Krakoa happened because these 4 figureheads of the X-Men got to see that nothing gets better. That their attempts to make the world better ultimately fail and that their sacrifices are for nothing. They get a stark illustration that nothing changes if they continue doing what they've already done for so long so all they can do now is try something else. And that something else is to listen to Moira and start actually fighting for the place they deserve in the world versus fighting for others with the hope. that their place will appear.
This actually makes sense
Regarding Jean's change in ideologies, just because right now she's living and helping the development of Krakoa and currently the island mostly only allows mutants doesn't mean that it will be that way forever. The way i see it is that she (and a lot of other characters) understand that the mutants have been through real hard times and they need to reagroup and become stronger again before being able to live with humans again. Charles said in the 4th issue of X-men that he hasn't fully given up on his dream, it's just changed a bit
Yes, exactly
Yeah but that may be that mutants look at humans like animals rather than equals
Yeah I agree but I do hope that Krakoa isn't suddenly opened to humans too, just seems devaluing of it. Plus ofc, you'd need the permission of Krakoa itself.
I think the endgame of current Krakoan geopolitics is exactly the opposite: In time, as Mutant population grows, Krakoa will absorb other political entities. First Genosha, then, who knows? Population should be 100% mutant before such assimilations, and it's unlikely that we'll ever see a case in a comic, but that's the probable outcome. Also, humans can get into other Krakoan territories, just not the main Island
I'm also re-reading the Claremont era X-men and it's really fun to do that with the Moira/Xavier/Magneto retcon in mind.
The retcon works pretty well, except for one thing : Moira’s death, which will need some further retconning IMHO (Xavier and Jean really experienced the death of the Shiar Golem.
It also explains why Xavier, while being a good guy, regularly does some very uncool things (I am all for this retcon, I never liked Xavier being something else than a benevolent person).
It saves both times where Magneto stopped being a simple villain (Once in the Claremont era and more recently Cullen Bunn's run in the Magneto series).
If I'm not mistaken, Stryfe's Strike Files did hint at the fact than neither Xavier nor Magneto could save mutantkind on their own, That their only hope was to work together in order to change the world. if it was not in the SSF, it was definitely worded at some time in the 90's.
Sinister long obsession of collecting Mutants DNA, was NEVER explained. Hickman solved that in a very unexpected and clever way (The resurrection protocoles).
Yes, Sinister is like a gardener that looks after Mutantkind and uses soft evolution to direct or preserve it and its purity from fatal interferences like Apocalypse, but that is not an endgame in itself.
Sinister's goal/endgame was NEVER explained.
EDIT : I was wrong on this one : he wanted to create race of... himself to populate the earth.
fanfix.wordpress.com/2015/01/20/mister-sinisters-origin/
I am so curious to see Hickman's explanation about him :
- Collecting Human DNA.
- Collecting all the Summers brothers.
Waiting for Apocalypse to be ready works very well too : Apocalypse did evolve a lot as a character between his first apparition in X-Factor and Hox/Pox.
Same for all the villain Mutants : through decades of publications, all factions tried to pushed their agenda and failed.
While surprising at first while discovering Hox/Pox, having them all join Krakoa actually makes sense : They all went through so much sh*t and failed attempts, that they all know or feel that they won’t achieve anything meaningful for the mutant race if they don’t finally unite. Some might simply enjoy having a secure home and let the fight behind them.
Due to Mike Carey’s run, I believe Exodus is happy to be at the sides of both Xavier and Magneto, which he both respects.
Sinister is an assh*ole and has his own unknown agenda, but Xavier and Magneto need him and his DNA data-bank badly.
The one I really wonder about is Apocalypse.
His ultimate goal was once to use twelve mutants to ascend to godhood and reign on a darwinist Earth. I wonder if he still has that dream, or if he moved on.
While I have no problem to believe that he might happily go with the ride (and why not ? He is immortal, so he can wait to see where all this goes or desist if he gets bored, disapproves or thinks of newer plans while having so many Omega Mutants in his surrounding), I just can’t help thinking that he either suspects or knows that there is more to Krakoa than Xavier and Magneto let on.
I also cannot believe that Moira second life ended just by accident. That her plane crashed just because of bad luck ? No, there is no coincidence in a Jonathan Hickman stay.
That life ended because of some time-travel/whatever sh*t. Someone tried to stop Moira’s reincarnations for good if you ask me !
Can't wait to see how the Time-travelers fit into this (Old Cable/Kid Cable/Stryfe). Bishop's past does not seem relevant anymore after the whole "messiah Saga", and Ahab and his future also seem irrelevant after the Days of Future yet to come, Extermination and the latest X-Force iteration. Althought there is a second younger Ahab from the present and our reality, and not from Rachel Grey's future somewhere in the 616 present (Not the one coming from Rachel's future, the one created by Apocalypse during "The Twelve" crossover). I wonder if Hickman will build on that or ignore it.
Hickman really did a great new starting point based on all than came before.
You can feel how he organized the hot mess that the X-Men universe became into something that is structured and finally making sense.
I can’t wait for what comes next ! May his reign last long ! :)
awwww yeah, I am very into your Moira's second life theory! Taps into something I've been wondering about: What if there was somebody else like Moira? What if there were a whole lot of somebody elses like Moira?
It said in one of the X books that Moira faked her own death . She is still in hiding right now and don't want people to know she is alive . the Hickman era books are a great read right now and some more then others everyone have their favorite Characters . Still want to find what is up with Kitty and why she can't comeback . Havok is my favorite Marvel character and the Summers Family getting another member can't wait to find out who they are . Some of my theories are maybe finally making Adam X codename X-Treme a brother or even Gambit asit was said in X Men The End Event . Now i have a new off the wall Theory what if Orphan Maker is a brother . Nanny put him in the Armor because he can't control his powers but if never said what his powers where so may soon he will loose the Armor .
@@Comicbookherald What if there was someone else like Moira ?
Wow, now I get Vertigo ! :D
I would not be surprised if someone was able to sort of travel between Moira's life, or at least was watching her and either use her or try to move her in some direction.
After all, the Nimrod/Bastion/Sentinels of the future were never shy about coming back to our present.
Or maybe the Sentient Black Holes Dominions do suspect something after year 1000 Apocalypse X-Men got sucked into Xorn's own black hole and they are trying to stop Moira.
So many possibilities !!!
One more thing : When Cable arrived for the very first time in our era, the first "X-Men" he met were Moira and Rahne.
uncannyxmen.net/comics/issue/cable-minus-1
It was also implied that :
- Cable arrived at our time with his full powers on. (Cable minus 1). Rahne forgot about that first meeting ! Never explained.
- A bit later. Cable met Xavier, BUT, Xavier never remember that first encounter as implied in Cable#8,page 27. After that (because of that ?) Cable somehow lost his telepathic powers. That loss was also never explained. I always thought he lost his TP powers to make Xavier forget about him. Question is : Why did Cable have Xavier and Rahne forget about him, but not Moira ?
I really hope Hickman will integrate this in his story.
I really wonder what Moira's opinion of the time-travelers like Cable/Bishop/RachelSummers/Stryfe/Genesis is.
That Moira retcon is really fascinating !
@@havokan45 So I am not the only one thinking that Orphan Maker is a Summer brother !!! :) while fighting X-Factor for the first time (X-Factor #31), he resisted Cyclops eyebeam without problem, which is a feature of the Summers brothers. Cyclops thought it was the armour, but pleeeease ;)
On top of that, Orphan-Maker was held prisoner at Sinister's orphanage.
His power turned on in Generation X #2-4 issue by Scott Lobdell : he throws bullets made of... bone. Quite lame powers IMHO.
X-Treme was supposed to be a Summer Brother. Still is if you ask me.
And Nanny is... Sara Grey, Jean Grey's sister ;)
She worked for The Right, and when she discovered that they were anti-mutants, they abducted her at her home, and turned her into Nanny.
Hence her light telepathic powers.
If you look at what we know from Sara Grey and Nanny, it all intersects perfectly.
I don't know if Lobdell and Nicieza knew about that. I always believed that the Sara Grey we saw in the Phalanx Covenant crossover was just a projection of Sara grey's mind, not her since she was Nanny all along.
I Believe Hickman connected the dots, because it can't be a coincidence that Alex Summers, Nanny and Orphan Maker are part of the new Hellions team and already on their way to Sinister former orphanage !
I long believed that Gambit was a Summers Brother, because he is the only X-Man that NEVER got hit by Cyclops eye beam (!!!) but he was originaly supposed to be Sinister (created at the time by Claremont as an old and very powerful telepath stuck in a kid body) in telepathic disguise, but the Cajun was so popular he became his own character :)
Just for the sake of mentioning it : Under Claremont, Nanny/Orphan Maker and Sinister were inspired by Peter Pan : Sinister original design by Silvestri was actually an evil Peter Pan !
Since Sinister's apparence was a mental projection, Silvestri gave it the look of a very cool Bad Guy as seen by a child. Same can be said of Gambit looks.
And while we're at it : Ahab as created by Claremont and Alan Davis was not Roderick Campbell, but was supposed to be Alistaire Stuart.
Funny thing is that Rodrick Campbell shares a lot with Alistaire Stuart : a love story with Rachel Summers and his life destroyed by his affiliation with mutants (Alistair Stuart sister died so).
That would explained why Cable kinda find Ahab familiar in the cross-over "Days of future present" : he probably met Alistaire Stuart and his sister after coming to our era. After all, their job as W.H.O. was to investigate mutants in the United kingdom at the time.
Nanny worked for the Right i think it was when they found out she was a Mutant locker her in the their egg armor . in Uncanny X Men like 247 i think it is Nanny turned Storm , Havok , Dazzler, in to kids . Havok and Dazzler as kids was put in to armor like Orphan Maker's Colossus bust's them out . Havok is still in a daze shoots at Nanny ship and ship falls to the ground with what was believed to be Storm body at the time Outback X Men is my favorite X Men team of all time Havok , Storm, Longshot , Dazzler, Rogue, Colossus, Psylocke , Wolverine .
Awesome video man, very professional. I've been using your reading orders for years. Never knew you had a channel so subscribed instantly lol
In Red, Jean was also working on building a mutant nation. Now she has it. On top of that.. She live on the moon with her family.
Her plan was for mutants to be recognized as a nation, yes--as a people that are bound together by their commonality of being mutants, but still integrated along with the rest of humanity, not as a separate entity, segregated from humanity itself, living on an Island. She wanted to continue the dream that Charles Xavier originally had, of having both mutants and humans living together in peace. With Krakoa, it's the opposite of what her idea was to be. In my opinion, Jean, like many others, are operating out of character, and I think Charles is responsible for that, with Moira masterminding as well. We will see though.
@@michaelbrower7141 Not everything but the big part of it. I think it's get there one day. maybe.
Loving your content. Please keep up the great work. This is the best up and coming comics channel I've seen in the last 6 months. Thanks so much to you and your team, if applicable.
This channel keeps my faith and interest in DoX.
Thanks so much - glad you're enjoying the coverage!
I'm all over it.
I love this stuff.
Great vid.
I think Hickman said that the body that died in X-force #1 was Fantomex's
This sounds familiar now that you mention it! There's an upcoming Giant-Size Fantomex so guess he'll have to use a husk.
It was mention by Xavier that he only use Fantomex body is materials to create his own new body?
Great video. I think Jordan or Hickman confirmed that Charles was in Fantom X's body, but was resurrected in his original body after his X-Force death. They say that he is even drawn less muscular after that. I'm not sure if they were trolling though.
I'm also going through Claremont's X-men run (using your reading order) and I think seeing what doesn't really work with retconning would be super interesting. It would also be a good way to revisit interpreting Moira's journals now that we have more information and more DoX issues.
That 6 month gap between Rosenberg's and Hickman's run is Hickman saying: "You can do what you want after i'm gone...but, give me my damn money on trades. My shit is gold."
Good video. With the non-releases of Marvel comics, I'm wondering how the planned new series and the resolution of the X-Men/Fantastic 4 mini would "color" your predictions if they were released on schedule. My vote is on the ret-con issue. I'm always balancing how far to go back in X-men history with Hickman's current take on the mutants.
Yeah, it's sad to reflect on the alternate reality where the X-Men Free Comic Book Day 2020 issue was already released, and all my theories are about something else entirely. New Marauders in two weeks, though!
I know what we are told are the rules of Krakoa and to the resurrection protocols who is to say there weren't/aren't duplicates of Charlie X or others roaming around at the same time or all kicking it in Moira's secret spot?
What happened to legion before house of X and is there a chance he’ll come back in dawn of X?
He is in Fantom xs body till he's killed in x-force
Let's not forget that when we last saw Illyana she was stomping around a military base like a Doom boss having lost her mutant powers and gone full Darkchylde. Next we see her in DOX she's chugging coffee and wielding a different sword without a hint of her demonic side mentioned since.
Havok was controlled by the marauder ‘malice’ before maybe she is back in the mix, scalphunter is so why not
Jean is so different in the new series. Have been a Jean fan since the 80s, loved her in "Red". She seems lifeless and distant in the new X-Men books.
Her "red"' one made me a fan of her I'm was scratching my head when I see her in her marvel girl outfit
I think a lot of that has to do because she’s an omega level mutant and right now things are pretty quite/peaceful on Krakoa. Her character will probably be more flushed out when a big event occurs. Similar to how Vulcan is behaving.
You didn't speak about Magik.
She lost her powers and became the Darkchylde before the time skip
When she came back she had her powers, no Darkchylde and she wasn't the ruler of Limbo anymore. How did that all happen?
This was in my extended cut and I couldn't figure out where to splice it in :) I need a good Magick flashback issue for sure!
Avengers on Krakoa; Wolverine, Beast, Sunspot, Sunfire, Cannonball, Justice, Firestar, Kid Omega, Namor, Storm, Rogue, Sabretooth, Havok, Dazzler, Squirrel Girl & Old Man Cable. X-gene drive power set, who have appeared as Avengers in publications. The Great Lakes Avengers changed to GL-X for a panel, but unsure if they are X-gene mutants or fall into anther category. Roy Thomas's Bloodhawk of Avengers 179-180 (circa 1979) was called a Mutant by Hank McCoy, but in retrospect more likely an inhuman.
Awesome video. I'm still baffled by Moiras ability and her whole involvement. I hope she isn't just a reboot device.
Yeah I think my ideal scenario is a 12 issue Moira solo book lays out so much more of her plan and *then* the reset bomb happens with that context
"Giant Size Nightcrawler, that actually was Giant Size Cypher, but wasn't called that way, obviously for marketing reasons"... big LOL. (Both are two of my fave Marvel characters, I'd put Doug over Kurt, though but not with much distance between them)
I loved the Rosenberg Uncanny run.
Where’s Layla Miller (the girls that knows stuff). We’ve seen Jamie Madrox and his clones and not her. I don’t see him leaving her and there child alone on a farm, while he lives in Krakoa. I need that explained from Hickman.
Yeah this is a good question. The Madrox piece could just be at least one version w/ Layla and co, but I'm curious what impact her powers might have on the visions of mutantkind's future.
I was just about to post the same thing, haha. Layla Miller isn't exactly a precog. I would think she was welcome on Krakoa.
If I remember correctly Layla wasn’t a mutant was she?
Thanks for another great video
Looking back i really liked the uncanny xmen run leading up to hox pox. More so than dawn of x.
I think the plan is to take away the sides. Sacrifice is always brought up. So why not be the enemy too. Eventually mutant and machine merg, which will make the phalanx more chaotic maybe?
That's pretty interesting. If you can't beat em, join em? Kind of works with the original Professor X dream, too, in an unexpected way!
Thanks for this video!!
Now we've seen Farouk on Krakoa but people seem to forget that Farouk and Shadow King is two entities. Farouk is a mutant while shadow king is something completely different... some kind of parasite.
I wouldn't be surprised however if SK is mucking around in Xaviers head ever since Xavier pulled the bodysnatch move. Something is very very wrong with Krakoa.
Amazingly Great Video!🍺🥃🍻
I'm not convinced that Miss Sinister is a clone. I think Sinister's original subconscious is in the body of Black Womb. She was even wearing the same outfit Black Womb was last seen in, & it was not absolutely confirmed that Black Womb died in that fight.
Great video!
Could Havok's resurrection issues somehow stem from his time inhabiting the evil Havok of the Mutant X universes body over the inversion? he acted as a temporary nexus of all realities throughout a sizeable portion of that series run, perhaps there's some residual effects lingering from that ?
Love your work. What I want to know is why didn't Moira kill Wanda? Or warn Charles about Cassandra Nova?
@Comic Book Herald:
Is this a part of Krakin' Krakoa? Where would it fit if it is?
He’s just going through the most recent writers leading up to the Hickman PoX HoX universe. This is the last and most recent run before Hickman
Thing I don't think you(CBH) get is if Moira showed Xavier his own future that future multiple times and at an early age a lot of stuff that would have happened didn't in this life time.
I'd love an omega level mutant video! In depth. Thanks.
Great video
it would be nice if x man, the collective, shaman and sasquatch get involved with krakoa
this is the "Out" Marvel has should this new idea of the X-men bombs.
The X-men, the originals, are imprisoned under Krakoa, like Sabertooth.
every X-men seen is a resurrected clone.
Their personality has been altered by Xavier to his "preferred" version. (Cyclops the good little solider, Jean Grey as Marvel Girl, Vulcan as a good little mutant, etc)
I believe Mystique will eventually discover this as she will "burn it all down"
The other theory is that Moira jumps to her last life and all this has been yet another attempt to change things.
If all of Hickman’s run is simply an alternate timeline/universe similar to Age of Apocalypse that would be pretty crazy. A definite possibility but given Hickman’s success with FF, Avengers, New Avengers and Secret Wars run, I doubt this X-men won’t be the real deal.
@@210SAi That is certainly a way out that they teased early on in the run the "10 possibly one more if you play it right" line Destiny dropped before Moira got fried by Pyro.
Xavier might have multiple bodies and is operating as a hive mind
Professor X hasn't been in his own original body since the early 80's.
if you are thinking about covering pax romana, you should also look into transhuman. it covers a lot of the same ideias of the x^3 timeline and in the end the "x-men" win
Well now I have to read that :) Pax and Transhuman are the only Hickman works I hadn't read prior to HoX PoX, I believe
Where is Typhoid Mary?
And i think moiras gonna use timetravel when she gets tired of all the sacrifice in life 10. And she'll have a conversation and kill her 11th life
Man I need my X Men! Comics are the worst hit by Corona!
Hickman isn't a writer that continues other writer's plot threads
What mutant is this in the image saying “Wolfsbane is dead ?” She looks so cool who is that ?
Dani Moonstar/Mirage! She's mainly a New Mutants character!
GELATO MOVIE wow thank you for the fast reply I really appreciate this ! do you know what her power set is ?
@@ThatJewishKid11 No worries! It's difficult to explain, but her main thing is that she can kinda create visions and illusions of people's thoughts and dreams/nightmares. This is what the famous New Mutants story "Demon Bear" and the New Mutants film are about! She is also a member of The Valkyries - An Asgardian all female group of warriors!
Farouk appeared in the last empyre xmen tie in so... Hickman does not care at all
Someone who looks like him appeared on a splash page but didn’t do anything. Could have just been a mistake by the artist and missed by the editor.
The thing with Havok does have a potential explanation in hellions that does NOT involve the personality inversion of Axis= The return of the Goblin Queen.
Remember that Alex once had a thing with Maddy during the time she was corrupted and became the Goblin Queen. During the Inferno, for a time Alex fell under her sway and she called him her Goblin Prince. Then at end of Hellions we see she's back. So maybe Alex is having a resurgence of Goblin Prince personality resonating with the Goblin Queen.
Sure She's been back before and nothing was shown of it affecting Alex, but that may be because she wasn't trying to influence him them vs now she is.
With Blindfold, its possible that no one asks why she's not there because they think its because the authorities "respecting her choices' and not reverse the suicide.
You mentioned the change in Jean Grey but not in Kitty/Kate. And No I don't mean her name change or the presumed "more aggressive" (she always did have a violent side, just recent years downplayed her and made her more boring & ooc) No I mean the change of her leading the X-Men and having the Outreach Center in Central Park to working with Krakoa. Like the pre-Dawn of X Jean Grey, the former Kitty Pryde was about trying to integrating the two factions. Both women had their moments and speeches about no us vs them, we're all the same. Then BOOM we get Krakoa and neither are voicing discontent at the separation that goes against their previous works.
I've heard some people think that this is an AU or recreated world akin to the AoA, instead of being the mainstream. What are your thoughts on that?
Rahne isn't dead. I just bought Wolverine: Rahne of Terra. I also bought a tonne of the original New Mutants Series from the 80's.. Over $1500.00 in comics including Wolverine 1rst & 2nd series plus the original Uncanny. This new crap isn't doing it for me.
god age of x-man was garbage
This reboot has been horrible. Hickman has destroyed the X-men and that’s saying a lot considering how bad it was before house of x.
Hickman is the best thing to happen to X-men in the last 3-5 years maybe more