Men and Women can NEVER be friends in Korea 👫🚫 | Korean Pizza Club | EP.12
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Can men and women be friends ONLY? While many might ask why this is even a question, Koreans beg to differ, as many responses and debate results show that Koreans think that either side will always cross the line.
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C*H*A*T*G*P*TGeneratedSEOScript
In a society where traditional gender roles and expectations continue to influence interpersonal relationships, the question of whether men and women can truly be friends without romantic feelings arising has sparked countless discussions. Many proponents of this viewpoint argue that societal norms in Korea often discourage close, platonic friendships between genders. Deep-rooted notions of gender segregation and the fear of being perceived as something more than just friends can hinder the development of authentic relationships. Additionally, some believe that the strong emphasis on hierarchical relationships and maintaining social propriety further exacerbates the challenges of forming genuine friendships between men and women.
On the other hand, opposing voices assert that genuine friendships between men and women are not only possible but essential for a well-rounded social experience. They argue that perpetuating the idea that platonic connections between genders are impossible perpetuates harmful stereotypes and reinforces a binary view of relationships. By embracing the idea that men and women can be true friends, individuals can foster a sense of emotional intimacy, support, and understanding that transcends traditional norms.
Throughout this episode, we delve into personal anecdotes and real-life experiences shared by both men and women in Korea, shedding light on the diverse perspectives surrounding this intriguing debate. So, buckle up, hit that play button, and join us on this engaging journey as we unpack the fascinating question: Can men and women ever be "just friends" in Korea? 🍕👀
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#KoreanPizzaClub #KPCPodcast #KoreanPodcast
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Timestamps
00:00 Teaser
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I strongly argue that everyone needs other gender friends!!😤
"dont give up Kelsey" 🤣❤
I agree. Because I've learn valuable things about how my female friends and male friends see and understand things. The idea that you can only be boyfriend or girlfriend with someone is ridiculous and shows how little emotional maturity people have
Absolutely!
Yes and especially if you don't have siblings of the other gender!
I agree so much, it was very frustrating to hear people living without permitting themselves or others, dear ones even, to not have some friends because of their gender
Yes. I have several guy friends that I’m close too and there are no feelings other than friendship. We are more like siblings. We can form bonds with people and not want to sleep with them.
from your perspective
the issue is guys know how other guys think. And they know how susceptible women are to their emotions and nothing is 100% to women. if their life was on the life they would cheat in a second. While some men would rather die than break a promise. I say that to say women function differently and very rarely would women die by the sword. Only time things like pride apply to women isnt 'not cheating', but when a women's child is on the line, I 1000% trust women to keep any promise regarding their child. But not dating their best friend.. that's not one of the things I would just simply trust a women's word on.
I will say, my bf and I were quite serious(marriage was always the goal with us) and living together and were together about 4 years at the time and one day I was going to work and he said how a girl he was friends with in highschool had reached out to him and wanted to hang out and that they had crushed on eachother back then but "the timing was never right when they were both in relationships when the other was available". She was now single and knew and understood he was in a relationship and said she just wanted to hang out and become friends again. So he asked if it was okay if she came over. I was trying to be cool and confident as I was about him but as I was at work and knew she was over, I got more uneasy bc I know how women are. Men are naive at how nasty and conniving women can be. I trusted my bf but not her and I would still be mad if something transpired where she tried something and he stopped it. So I texted him I was uncomfortable and changed my mind bc I didn't know her and stuff. Looking back now I should've told him I was cool with it if they had gone somewhere mutual and public, I think it really would've been a different situation in my comfort level. Anyways, he told her I was uncomfortable and she had to leave and she never tried to reach out to him again. She ended up pregnant by some random a few months after and I, and by then my bf also, came to the conclusion she had been on the prowl. But yeah, I think it would've been different if I had thought to say beforehand if they'd meet at a park or something instead would've been a more appropriate setting and also if I had met her and knew her and what she was like, you know. Maybe bc I feel I'm a good judge of character when I meet people. Just it was so sudden and I felt off-balance was the main thing. But in the end anyways, we suspected she might not have been in good faith anyways so we night have dodged a bullet. Anyways, we married 3 years later(been married 5 years now) and are still happy and best friends and I trust him still. It's all about communication and trust comes easily when all is communicated and nothing is grey or left unsaid.
18:40 its better to focus on having the same values, then to check ✔️ all the boxes.
This comment is important. ❤
Actually, in the west, everyone in a friend group (male & females) could be perfectly heterosexual or whatever, and they hang on each other, hug and kiss when they greet each other because in the west/euro is like accepting them like family, and it would not make a girlfriend or boyfriend jealous. You can read the vibe in the west if there is toooooo much going on. It would be obvious to everyone really. But friend hugs and stuff is never a problem. But I have to admit that after I was in a serious relationship with a guy for a while, when I finally have a girls night out after a long time, he did not want me to go and was a prude. He is spoiled and protective at this point. So their jealousy or insecurities come to the surface, but they are okay running around hanging with their friends with no problem. Double standard might happen with some types of men.
I’ve had lots of different people tell me that I can’t have friends who are guys as a women because of safety or my partner will be upset. My partner has always been nonchalant so I actually had no idea this was a thing until a random guy who I barely knew asked how long I had known a certain guy friend. This felt like a weird question and he then proceeded to argue with me about how at some point my friend and I would “like” (just putting it that way) each other. That’s insane as neither of us had ever thought that, that guy friend of mine has a lot of girls as friends too so that’s why it didn’t occur to me as weird. The more Korean Koreans I meet the more I can understand why people are uncomfortable but just personally I have always thought, if your partner takes the opportunity to cheat on you with a “friend” they were going to do it at some point and you stressing and trying to prevent it goes to show your relationship isn’t truly about trust or genuine love for each other. The more I think about diverse sexualities too it’s like, what? Are you going to completely isolate your partner if they’re pansexual? I guess it’s just preference at the end of the day, but I’m not bothered and I haven’t in my relationship fallen for a friend ever, it’s platonic love and I root for them in their own relationships.
I’m from US, I personally love male friends. My closest girlfriends are more “ tomboy.” Gay masculine friends are the best or a guy friend who had a very secure relationship and I know he wants nothing to do with me romantically. But even then I keep my distance or have boundaries incase his partner/wife might feel uncomfortable. I also don’t want my partner to feel uncomfortable. Everything just depends on the situation.
As a bisexual person, I find this topic hilarious - according to this mentality, I should have no friends whatsoever when I’m in a relationship because ‘something could happen’ 😂
Same. And I have the added layer of being demisexual and bisexual. So literally everyone I have ever found attractive have been my friend first.
I think that's a little different because with straight male and female it's defined role in a sense.
This!!! 😂😂
i’m a lesbian but i still find it so weird, because i definitely gravitate towards female relationships, not just romantically, and the idea that i could ever be attracted to any of my friends is just ludicrous to me, that has never happened ever, that’s like crushing on my siblings.
Or only be friends with people attracted to the other sex than you when in reality you might only even MEET like 2-3 people like that in a year lol let alone have friendship compatibility
I agree with Kelsey, it's important for society that men and women can be friends. And yes it's possible.
It's possible for a small fraction of people, meaning it's highly unlikely to happen on a grand scale because we are just not designed like that. The fact that this conversation exists shows that men and women can't be friends
@@NewCanadianTurtle I'm from sweden and where I come from most women and men are just friends with each other. Sometimes people fall in love but otherwise you are just friends. Not every man will connect to and going to be intrested in EVERY women in another way and vice versa. This isn't about self control even. You will not be intrested in a sexual or romantic way with everyone of opposite sex. I think it's very important to be able to form stable friendly relationships with people of the oposite sex. That way you will understand more people and also your partner. Also just more good dynamic in society. I guess the people I know and myself are a living prof that it is possible :)
I’m not Korean obviously, but I feel like men and women are often “friends” in groups, just not one on one. Most friend groups have a group of girls and a group of guys that hangout. They often end up dating each other, but that’s not always the case.
@@xander_k_ I don't agree, I have often been hanging out or have projects with guy friends alone and we haven't had any issues. And I know more people than myself having those types of relationships :)
@@MoreToThePicture congratulations on being a statistical outlier.
I have seen work friendships turn into adultery, so it is easy to understand why people feel vulnerable to cheating.
I was raised by a single mom and as a dude working in healthcare, I have been surrounded by women my whole life and find female friends to be an important part of my life. No Significant other could convince me to leave my close friends regardless of gender. I can have female friends and find them attractive but understand you dont try to sleep with your friends just like your same sex friends. Also regular friendships have boundaries as should friendships of differing sexes.
Sure you can have female friends but if the Love of your life told you not to see them again I think that you wouldn’t you know why? Only because those “Female friends “ aren’t going to give you what your True Love would. They aren’t going to be your wife and I don’t recommend venting to a woman about your relationship problems. You sabotaging a possible relationship over keeping “Female friends “ might hurt you more than you think in the long run. 🤗
To other’s reading this the key is in this guys post, “raised by a single mom.” You have picked up single mom knowledge in terms of relationships! Not saying your mom raised you terribly at all but in terms of relationships from people who’s parents are still together the advice is very different. My parents who are married 30+ yrs believe the exact opposite (no opposite sex friends) and they say it’s one of the biggest reasons they have been married for so long.
@@PleasePay1 different strokes for different folks
@jIRehlozano6257 strongly disagree here. If you are a person like the op here or like me, that's what's normal to you. You can't just leave all ur friends and spend ur life only with ur so. That's not how it works. How I deal with it is that I talk about this from the very very start. If they don't like it, then I don't get in a relationship with them. They are no true love if they can't make any sacrifices for me
I feel like the fixation on self-control is strange. Are you all secretly attracted to your friends? I have guy friends who I am not attracted to in any way. There is no need for self-control because there are no urges to control, to begin with.
I was thinking this too 😂
it’s so weird, i am not attracted to everyone, in fact i am attracted to very few people, what’s there to control?
Right? It builds on the cliché that guys want sex all the time
Yeah. I found this fundamentally weird. My friends are like my cousins. I don't have to make any effort to NOT be attracted to my family.
@@Smittenhamsterbecause we do.. Our emotions are not exclusive to our sex drive so we can want sex with someone without feeling like we need to be safe or the need to get to know that person first. Whereas women need a feeling of safety, a chance to know the person emotionally and time to initiate their superior EQ to find out if the guy is a psycho or normal. This difference is the reason why most women don't understand men yet Always talk as if men should be thinking the same way a woman does but we just simply don't and women cannot gaslight men into thinking like a woman. We are just different animals and that doesnt make anybody good or bad. We just are
I’m queer so I always find it so fascinating watching straight people debate whether they can/can’t be friends with the opposite sex 😂 boundaries work wondersss.
Kelsey is bisexual, that’s why she reacted that way in the beginning lol
What the hell is queer😂😂😂😂
Basically you are NOT the norm. That should answer all your questions.
Girl and guy friendship can work as long as boundaries( No romantic and sexual feelings) are set between them.
True
Problem is a lot of men misinterpret woman and think that they romantically have feelings for them when in reality they were just trying to be friendly with them. Then some men go behind your back and talk crap about you just because they don't like you and assume you are flirting with them even though you were not. Reason why I can't have male friends.
@@minxili3317 I don't agree with male/female friendship, but at the same time, those men you mention are literal beta virgins. They're not worth paying attention to.
Yes bust most case men talk to women if they find them attractive, ever for another reasons
Amen! But that's almost like the last step of the process I feel. First and foremost both men and women have to have a baseline platonic love toward everyone - men and women (and children and elderly, etc, etc, everyone) and a baseline respect for everyone and this has to always be there as a foundation and thus, logically, always precede romantic love anyway. When you have that you actually sincerely care about the person and this comes first, priority-wise but often time-wise too, before possible sexual attraction and romantic feelings. Then IF a friendship forms but both sides have their reasons why they don't want to be more than friends THEN they actually care about protecting the friendship. Then they can set more specific boundaries if whatever is default in their culture is not enough which - it most probably isn't because every culture has grey areas and each person is a little bit different.
Male and female friendships are important for a single person. It doesn't help that our society is highly driven towards "you need to find your person for life" so a lot of people has these intentions even though it's actually kind of immature. People all want to look for love and throw away the concept of friendship. The death of friendship is a really isolating thing that a lot of people go through. Loneliness is at an all time high. People do not know how to be friends and romantic relationships do not necessarily fix that.
That's so true...
"People do not know how to be friends and romantic relationships do not necessarily fix that." So true! People discount the beauty of friendships.
So true! Thank you sooo much for talking about this.
Agree with Kelsey, my girl friends are like sisters to me, and they see me as brother as well. In Brazil work like that, we don't mixed things. We call ''amizade colorida'' ( a separate thing )when we are not really best friends, so kiss and sex happens, but real friends nope.
This was definitely my favourite episode. It was funny, especially the perilla/shrimp leaf scenarios LOL. I hope this topic continues.
Really interesting what David said about in a Korean couple, if a boyfriend hugged a friend who was a girl in front of his girlfriend, she would scold him and her. I'm from the UK and this just wouldn't happen here, at least not in any social circle I'm a part of. It's really normal to hug other friends, boy or girl actually. It's just the done thing here. In my opinion, if my fiancé got angry about me hugging another friend who was a girl (she never would but for the sake of argument!) I'd see it as a jealousy/self esteem problem on my fiancé's end and I'd want to get to the bottom of that. It's just showing insecurity in my opinion. I used to be a bit like that in my early twenties with previous girlfriends around other guys and now I cringe at the thought!
I’m an American woman, and I have had male friends my whole life. My best friend in high school was a guy. It has never been a problem in my romantic relationships, because I refused to date anyone who didn’t trust me. That said, everyone needs to fully understand their places, so they never overstep the boundaries of friendship. For example, always respect your friend’s partner and make a sincere effort to bring the partner into the friendship circle. That is a great way to earn trust.
Yeah, And the whole world can now see the moral, social, family values of American society and how it is depleting to the point of no return.
@@FromPlanetZX what does that have to do with her having male friends? Having male friends is not contributing to the downfall of American society. Just say you’re insecure or just want to bash 🇺🇸 and be done with it.
Beautifully Stated 👏🏼
@@kimleemoonlol, an american shouldn't really be giving dating advice or friendship advice or ANY advice on any relationship ever, especially between a man and woman. Tbat country cant even sort out how many genders are there, you really think the world takes them seriously ?! 😂
Just to clarify, in bts only V and JK said they had an issue with the perilla leaf. All the other members (so the majority) didn't have an issue to varying degrees, from Jin being completely unphased to RM who was more trying to reason through context. J-hope had the best answer - "It shouldn't be an issue if you have trust".
True that’s good answer if you trust your partner. That’s it TRUST..
@@annaliehinkle980 Would you trust your partner having a shower with all his girl friends?
@@homeblue7667Are you comparing perilla leaves with showering together?
@@annalebedyntseva188 Where in my question does it say they both are the same?
@homeblue7667 You didn't say it. You're implying that they are the same situation. People are arguing whether a friendly gesture is considered romantic. But you are making up extreme situations to prove a point.
Kelsey is right at the beginning that it's just really heteronormative. As we become more open in terms of sexualities it will have to become less strict. If your boyfriend is bi you can't stay stressing over every single friend he has. You have to accept cheating as a possibility and use more reasonable measures of trustworthiness other than genitalia.
What the fuck is wrong with people using stupid words like heteronormative
I wanna agree with this comment, but I wanna add in that your sexuality has nothing to do with whether or not you are more likely to cheat; just because someone is bisexual doesn’t mean that they’re more likely to cheat; that’s like saying that just because somebody has more partners to choose from they are more likely to cheat, so what you’re saying is, is there anyone who is conventionally attractive is more likely to cheat, which is also bullshit. Whether or not someone is likely to cheat, has to do with them as a person and their morals, not their sexuality or whoever their attracted to
Oh for godsake bisexual people are a tiny minority.
a friend zone doesn't exist. either you are a friend or a liar. if you continue pretending "being a friend" with ulterior motives of it maybe one day turning into more, you're not a friend. you're misleading a person that trusts you and set a boundary with you that you willingly ignore.
Sounds like you have some personal experience?
@@MultiDirt1234 Nah just on my moral compass
Makes sense to me! The reality is that many people aren’t genuine about their intentions and have friends who they know want more and feed into that possibility.
That's insane. So, if you are attracted to someone and they are in a relationship you should...what....ignore them? Refuse to ever speak to them?
Society couldn't function like that.
@krausewitz6786 No, just admit you're not there to have a platonic relationship. and if you have romantic feelings and get rejected after confessing, move the fuck on. clearly, both of you are not looking for the same thing, so what are you staying for, pretending to be friends? don't waste your time.
you guys always need a scenario to understand: you have a gf and a homie from a friend group is clearly into her but tells her nah we just friends. would you be comfortable with him hanging out with your gf even though he's only supposedly "just a friend". I mean, that's what he told her, so she believes him, why shouldn't she, a person should stand by their word.
Heteronormative means working under the false assumption that everyone is heterosexual as a baseline. This isn’t true, it’s a symptom of systemic homophobia.
During the premiere of this episode 350 people were surveyed and the results were - Yes they can be friends 85% / No 15%
Can we have a part 2, this time with maybe 1 or 2 more guys and this same group?
"If they can't even peel a shrimp by themselves, they don't deserve to eat shrimps"
- Suga from BTS
👑👑👑
I work here in Korea and was asked the Perilla leaf question before. I work at a small language center so it was 6 females (4 Korean) and 1 guy. Me and the other foreign woman were both like "yeah it's ok for him to help her" because like the girls said in this video it shows he's caring and being a gentlemen or helpful. The Korean female teachers looked so disgusted LOL. Now one she did see our point once we said why we found it OK but the others were like "but eating in Korea is romantic"...Me then why is my friend even there if this is romantic. They were big mad when I said, well you're a bad friend if you see her struggling and you don't help her. Your bf wouldn't have to do it if you would look out for her. The 1 guy was happy he had somebody to back him up but we concluded it's a cultural difference LOL
This show is so good and informative. Hope it continues to grow!
*Being born in Eastern Europe I lived with the same mentality that exists in Korea where the male grouped with the males and the female with the females, I practically started a rebellion against this mentality but it is not easy when someone has limited experience and has always following to certain traditions and rules made by the elders, men and women can only be FRIENDS if the people involved have the same mentality, at least that happened in my case.*
I'm born and raised in Eastern Europe and male-female friendships were totally normal where I grew up and also where my mom grew up during her youth. I'm Bulgarian.
@@essennagerry I'm Romanian but I live abroad now and unfortunately today there are many who are quite narrow-minded even today.
@@maricutadunca_613 Yeah, I suppose even in smaller countries there can be big differences from region to region and even just within families and friend circles. It's sad but I think it's better to find like-minder people because I think it's risky to trust someone whose mind you _think_ you've changed. They could change back... I wish you all the best where you're living now! I live in Austria myself, actually teo days ago I had my 10 year anniversary of living in Austria. 😁 Certain types of Christian (i.e. my type lol) are very open to mixed gender friendships. In my experience so far most of them genuinely want to be either friends or good aquantances and even if a guy or a girl has feelings for someone they're very respectful about it and still value the friendship. I hope you can find true friendships like that regardless whether it's with men or women. Wish you all the best!
@@maricutadunca_613 I think @essenagerry made an important point: it depends, where you live, region (city or country side), social class (family), prevailing ideology (religion, politics etc) and more. There is more understanding between ppl of different nationalities, when they have a similar background. Example: American generals pleaded for their German equivalents after the second world war because they could understand their situation. It's not necessarily the nationality, it's the life situation. But you are right, there is also sth specific about nationality, i.e. you can't really compare what happened in Rumania, Bulgaria, Albania or Ex-Jugoslavia after the second world war. And I know in the country you live in now you will find ppl who had to fight the same shitty prejudices you had to fight and are still doing it. With a different "color" because this country has a different history etc to yours. But fundamentalist ideologies, traditions, narrow mindedness with a very clear idea about men's and women's roles are more or less the norm. I agree in order to fight you have to have the "same mentality", the same idea about what you want. Then male/female roles and sexuality are not predominant any more.
Quite interesting to me that @essenagerry found the christian environment in Bulgaria less restrictive. Probably the same as in Eastern Germany, where they were not the mainstream ideology. In other countries e.g. Ireland, Italy, Spain it was exactly the catholic ideology which stopped ppl from being able to breath.
I would love to have this conversation again with more guy guests to get their perspective, and then maybe a session where the guys and girls duke it out about this topic because their views and experiences will be different!
As someone who has always had guy friends and sometimes, like currently, I have more guy friends than girl friends and I feel sometimes closer to my guy friends. I say it’s possible but also have been in scenarios where either myself, or a fellow friend become momentarily conscious about their attraction to the other. It really is situational, but I can’t say for sure it won’t ever happen. But I also think guys and girls can and maybe should have healthy friendships with each other.
Doesnt work that way. Its basic biology. I can gurantee if i ask your male friends if they were given a chance to sleppp with you, atleast half of them would go for it. 😂
The only healthy relationship between a guy and girl is if they are mother son, or brother sister, or if they're married/in a serious relationship. Anything else is vague.
Also i have always seen its mostly the women who say this. Out of 10 women commenting "i have many guy friends" i see jist just 1 guy say "i have many female friends". Says everything you need to knwo about the situation really.
In my opinion, yes, you can, but there have to be hard boundaries set in place. I'm not going to walk around half naked or change in front of my guy friends like I would with my girlfriends. Also, I'm not sitting in their laps. This is a rule. Rather, there is a boyfriend/girlfriend involved or not.
I see nothing wrong with that if you're single or if you have a boyfriend and everyone are ok with it 🤷♀️ but to each their own.
I once had a boyfriend who was crazy jealous of my both guy and girl friends lmao. I had more guy friends at the time but he was literally jealous of both 🤦♀️🤦♀️ he would go crazy when I hugged someone when we meet or something. He once got crazy because I sat next to my guy friend because I haven't seen him for a while and wanted to talk a bit, catch up... But my bf PICKED ME UP literally and put me next to him 🤦♀️🤦♀️ so many fights man 🤦♀️ broke up with him shortly after 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Yeah I agree. Men and women can be friends but we're still men and women and if we truly CARE about each other we need to take this fact into account and adjust our behavior accordingly. And it's not just physical stuff, it's also emotional stuff and joking/teasing. Certain joking and teasing I only do with my female friends. Even what we share.
Warning: trauma dumping ahead!
I've made some mistakes which lead to a guy friend I really cherished manipulating me and betraying me. I believe he did sincerely appreciate me as a friend but at the same time I got badly burned by his disrespect for anyone else's view but his. For context my views are extremely conservative - I'm saving literally everything for marriage. It's one of the things we bonded over at first because he said he thinks the same way but sort of gave up bcs it's too hard and too lonely for him. During covid we were both very vulnerable and things went too far and what I did was I set boundaries. I wasn't mad at him at first, just sad on my own, and set boundaries. What he did is use me explaining my boundaries as a "manual on how to play me" by his own words. And after 3 or 4 times of boundary crossing and yet another fight he blew up and said that if we just went all the way it would have been fine. Which is something he had said before and I vehemently clarified is very much not true. I.e. he may cherish me as a friend but idk who this "me" is if my views and wishes are not part of that "me" and can be betrayed and disrespected however he sees fit cause he knows better.
I think back and I think if I was stricter from the get go I could have 1. not gained all this trauma 2. still be friends with him just not so unhealthily close. And I would have like that. But now I want to erase him from my life and forget about everything that happened including his existence.
I'm sorry for trauma dumping, but it feels a bit therapeutic to share. I don't really think about him anymore, which is great, but every now and again I trigger myself into it in a youtube comment section lol and it feels nice to organize my thoughts once again. Thank you to anyone who took the time to read all this and empathize. 😊
What a sad life if you can’t have friends of both sexes. I have friends of different sexes, age groups, backgrounds, races, etc.
I think if you can’t be just friends with a girl as a guy, you weren’t raised right. I’m convinced lmao
I feel like men and women can be friends as long as they make sure to enforce boundaries. And their partners are friends with those friends of the opposite sex too. And they must also not discuss their relationship problems with the friend of the opposite sex.
I’ve had close male friends before in the past when I was in Uni and it was platonic for many years but we ended up sleeping together later on 🙃 when you get emotionally vulnerable with somebody of the opposite sex, discussing relationship problems and with a bit of alcohol involved, it is hard to not have a little sexual tension to happen 😅
I never had Attraction for my male friends. That's why they're my friends lol. However when they got married or in relationships I did set boundaries just out of respect for their girlfriends or wives. If you're a friend I see you as a brother and can't imagine going any further than that.
Someone once told me this and it applies to the situation of your significant other being around people of the opposite sex. “It doesn’t matter who wants me as long as I want you”
You can open the ketchup packet but squeezing the ketchup onto her plate is extra. Just hand her the packet once you’ve opened it
😂
Love the podcast and candid conversations! Maybe consider adding subtitles or brief explanations for the Korean phrases that are inserted? Would love to understand the nuances of these phrases :)
Well, in Korea, everyone is probably so jealous because the dating culture itself in Korea is different from, let's say, in Europe or America. In the West, people usually start relationships after a certain period of evaluation and, probably, friendship or getting to know each other. It's like a conscious choice and certain commitments. Because if a person respects themselves at least a bit, they also respect their choice. There's no need to cheat secretly. Relationships are a normal process of trial and error as part of the choice. In Korea, as far as I understand, people don't know each other that well before dating, so there's not much attachment, even emotionally. That's why there are more cases of cheating. Or maybe they see cheating in a slightly different way. If I'm wrong, please correct me ))
Agree! People will start dating someone/getting to know each other, then start “talking“ and eventually if they want to be boyfriend/girlfriend then they will officially commit to each other. At least among my friends in the US.
Isn't it the opposite. It is Americans who sleep with someone the same day they meet them. And then later they figure out if they want to date then or not.
Not sure about Korea but most cases in Asia, nobody is accepting anyone's proposal if they don't know them already. Most people date after knowing them for a long time. They just may not have talked a lot with them.
@@chengli3896 that’s a stereotype. Some people in America may do that (especially younger generation), who are more open-minded about sex, but that’s not the norm. People like to get to know each other, talk/text for a while, hang out, go on multiple dates and if they really like each other and want to be “EXCLUSIVE” (only date each other), then they start a serious relationship. Until they are “exclusive” both parties are free to date other people as well.
But it’s been said Koreans will meet someone, say they are boyfriend/girlfriend after just a few days or a week so they can have sex, then breakup. That’s not much different that some Americans having sex on the 1st day. American just don’t try to disguise it as a bf/gf situation when it’s really just sex and not a relationship. We don’t have to pretend.
Kelsey is me. I really love how she denies to promote the concept of ugly. I really like Kelsey or its just that her perspective matches mine. ❤️
She can deny it as much as she wants, but that wont change the reality. There is huge difference between everything talked here online and what actually happens in real life.
As was said later in the conversation, having no opposite sex friends is a red flag. Those kinds of people tend to have the most toxic view of relationship dynamics.
I have both male & female friends. My best friend is a man. He, plus my other male friends give me a different perspective on issues that I might have, then what my female friends would give. I feel like it's a good thing to have a group of diverse (male & female, culture, etc) group of friends.
Can i call your male friends and ask them if given a choice to sleeppp with you or not wether they'd take it ?! We'll know how much 'friends' they are with you then ! 😂
Cool topic. One statement continually coming up that sort of got to me "if he/she lets me...", Feels almost like you loose autonomy. Obviously there should be mutual respect between partners, but some of it seems controling.
If you have to put so much effort looking at every move your bf or gf does, that’s not healthy or worth it. A cheater will cheat no matter if you try to keep tabs on every single move. A healthy relationship includes trust and respect. The perilla leaf was very interesting. 😊
As a woman, I definitely can be friend with men, I’m not attracted to every men on earth, don’t want to have sex with every one of them, even if they re handsome, I can control myself.
But I do feel like adult men can’t.
In my 20s I realized that if a man contact you, he def want more than be friends.
Every men I was friend with in my 20s tried something with me ultimately.
Just my experience tho.
My guy BFF I met when we were 13 and have never crossed the line we see each other as siblings and get grossed out if we are out and people mistake us for a couple. So friendships can definitely exist!
Yes, they can, but there will always be an unline of attractiveness. Not just looks.
Gosh, my male besties are such wonderful human beings. I’d never give them up.
Some of these questions they were asking were too black and white. I agree with Kelsey as there is a heteronormative way of thinking and even with the going on a trip or staying over. There is nuance in every situation.
David is the perfect person to be in discussions, keeping things grounded and stable, and also PG😆Love listening to KPC specially with your 3 regular guests
WARNING: Looonnngg answer. 😂
I just can’t get on board with possessiveness in relationships. Romantic or otherwise. To me/ for me people belong only to themselves and are choosing to be with each other everyday.
But I also believe in honesty 💯. Cheating is unforgivable because it’s LYING and if you’ve agreed to be monogamous it’s breaking a promise. These are the flaws.
I dated my ex for 4 years. When we started dating we were both clear we weren’t looking for a committed relationship. Eventually we realized neither one of us were seeing other people (not once, not since the day we met) because we had so little time off work and always wanted to spend it together. So we decided to commit / make it official since it just happened naturally anyway and it felt silly to pretend otherwise (however we still weren’t promising forever). That was after a year together.
I trusted him because I had no reason not too. He had some female friends he’d known forever. One or two of them he’d hooked up with years earlier when they were single and bored. (I never asked, he told me these things right away). Still they never chose to date when they could have. And as far as I was concerned, whatever happened before me doesn’t have anything to do with me.
Sometimes he had plans to hang out with these girls. And he wanted to be a good boyfriend so he kept asking me for permission, if it’s okay, insisting I come with. He wanted to make sure I didn’t worry.
However, I wasn’t worried. And the idea of being forced to hang out with him and his friends, telling old stories and laughing at inside jokes, sounded AWFUL. I wanted him to go alone so I could go see MY friends. Between work and a boyfriend there wasn’t enough hours in the day. I missed my friends.
So I told him to please go without me. AT FIRST he was thrilled. Impressed. Wow, my chill girlfriend is a “cool girl”. I can brag about her. She’s not clingy.
But NEXT he did a 180. He was hurt that I wasn’t jealous. My trust now meant that I didn’t care about loosing him/ keeping him. Which made me feel like an adult speaking to an immature child gamifying relationships.
So I explained. The trust is what mattered. If he cheats, that’s on him, not on me. I wouldn’t blame myself for not knowing or not watching him closely (like a dog getting loose in a park). But if I don’t TRUST him? As far as I’m concerned we need to break up. Doesn’t matter if he cheated or not. The lack of trust (him or me) means the relationship is now over. We don’t believe in each other. We don’t believe in “us”. So what’s the point?
(And some people ask me “but won’t you be heartbroken if you are cheated on? “. The answer is yes and no. Yes, because it turns out the person I loved doesn’t exist. I could never love someone who cheats. I couldn’t even respect them. But no, not because of the rejection. Now if they did NOT cheat, but broke up with me honestly because they fell for somebody else? Of course THAT would hurt. But again, I couldn’t have stopped that by controlling them. That’s not how love works)
And I am a goddamn honorable person. I don’t even tell white lies (unless I’m fighting against something I think is unjust in a work situation). I always keep my promises. I don’t hide things. If you claim to know me, to understand me, to LOVE me, but then don’t trust me? I will be BEYOND insulted. That makes me question you and your morals. Which makes me question our relationship.
After 4 years we broke up but not because of this. Because we wanted different futures and it was just time. But we never talked about jealousy again. And were happier for it. ❤️
I've never dated before in my 17 years of being on this earth but I honestly have the same values and expectations as you when it comes to a romantic relationship because trust is one of the three important foundations of a relationship to me personally and I wouldn't want to be with someone who I felt like I didn't trust and who didn't trust me that just sounds so emotionally draining. I applaud you for your maturity and I do hope that I can be more like you if I was to ever date 😆
I loved this! This was a really funny and entertaining episode / talk. Made me laugh out loud so thank you. (of course the dream team!) 😊 For me it's perilla and shrimp = yes, padding = no I think, like you guys.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I love watching KPC I love this cast ❤
If my boyfriend helped my friend with a perilla leaf…I would get turned on. 🤭 It shows hes a gentleman and considerate of others. I don’t want to date a selfish jerk, I want to date a kind guy, and a guy who notices when someone else needs help and lends a hand unprompted is hot. I would jump his bones when we got home 😂
Nobody mentions this perspective!!! I agree wholeheartedly looking out for others so hot🤌🔥
This panel is toptier
This shower question was just so funny to me lol. If anything I would cringe SO hard if I´d have to shower with guy friends like I really don´t want to see them naked. I also don´t really understand this whole talk about "controlling your urges", like are you attracted to all of your friends? When I´m genuinely friends with someone there are no urges to control idk.
The whole point of dating is to get to know each other first. After that if you want to be boyfriend than you take it to another level.
Is it not exhausting to have to keep tabs on your partner? I feel like it says a lot about that person, then it does the partner. I really do feel people need to loosen up.
If you grow up around a person, it is easier to see them as just a friend. Another way the friendship could work is if the woman is much older. I have a female friend, but she is 12 years older than me. My fiance (korean korean) is cool with our relationship but I don't think she would be if my friend was our age or younger.
Happy birthday Anna! 🎉Btw I saw the news on the recent change of Korean calendar. Which would you usually tell your expat friends, your Korean age or the “international age”? Coz I was so confused when my Korean friend tried to explain on this
You should have brought another male guest to have more of both perspectives. Because especially for thos topic man and women are very different
I think that a men and women can be friends. I personally, get along better with men, and my guys friends to me are like family. 😊
It’s not about looks or anything a cheater will always be a cheater, he/she is bound to cheat
I'm an American, it's very interesting how other cultures communicate. Great topic.
You can have friends/buddies from opposite sex, but not best friend. That spot is reserved for your spouse. Also, once the opposite-sex friends are in relationships, be ready to drift apart then reconnect when they broke up.
I always love these kinds of debates being bisexual/pansexual 😂 like I'm attracted to all genders, so do I eventually end up having romantic or sexual feelings for all my friends? Of course not! Maybe one or two cases this has happened and I know they don't reciprocate the feelings so I distance myself from that person and move along. Love how heteronormativity was called out so quick 🎉
As an asexual, I sorta know how you feel🤣
Hm I believe cheating can happen with it without feelings. Some people just do it whether it includes sexual/romantic feelings or not because they’re broken in a way. I think it’s just about boundary setting for a relationship for both sides
I honestly really believe that men and women can be friends. I had times where I had a bf and a guy friend maybe saw an opportunity but because I made it clear to how I wanted to be support as a FRIEND my guy friend understood that. Being honest about your relationship helps separate those feeling from one another. So if you have a boyfriend but is hiding or badmouthing the relationship your guy friend will think that there is an opportunity. You are causing negativity by doing this so people will think you are unhappy and maybe feel like they can “save” you. However, If your completely honestly and “promoting” the relationship both your bf and your guy friend will know what they bring to the table. Doesn’t mean that even though you are happy in a relationship, maybe a guy friend will maybe try to still interject. BUT, the difference is that YOU PERSONALLY, have the power to control what happens next. Meaning you TELL that guy friend your not interest in him anymore than a friend. That guy friend will either WALK away forever (not a real friend) or understand and stay (a real friend). Some people just need instances like this to see the actual boundaries. It’s like testing the waters, sometimes it’s a subtle, and you don’t even know it had happen. This is an extreme example.
It’s the same if you’re a guy with a gf and a girl friend.
All I will say is if you date somebody that likes to hang out with a lot of people of the opposite sex then don't get too attached. Don't have any expectations. Don't expect it to last. Maybe it will last, but I'm just saying you shouldn't expect it to. If the person you are dating one day wants to break up and see one of their friends, you shouldn't be too surprised. Just move on and don't mention it. You knew what you were getting yourself into.
I will say the exception here is if the person you are dating holds you up to high regard, praises you in front of their opposite sex friends, and makes it clear that you are their boyfriend / girlfriend to their opposite sex friends. Also a bonus if they show you public displays of affection in front of their opposite sex friends.
But if a girlfriend or boyfriend wants to hang out with their opposite sex friends alone, then that is just asking for relationship issues. Dislike it all you want, but human beings are insecure. The best thing you can do to make a relationship last is make your partner feel secure. You can't have everything in life. You have to make sacrifices and choose what is more important.
11:47 Kelsey, the bissexual bonobo.
😂❤
The transition to the ad 😂 10/10
29:20 SO TRUE, no matter how much you try to prevent your partner from cheating. If they are already thinking about it then why would even bother staying with them.
I think this video and the comments down here goes to show: Yes, women and men can be friends. But it all depends on the context of the individual. Especially the culture and the people you surrounded yourself while you were growing up heavily influences this perception.
Great episode! I really like your show. I was trying to find a Japanese show like this, but ended up on this channel a few months ago. (Watching from Florida.)
Once I see someone as a friend, it’s hard for me to see them as anything other. They’re strictly in that box lmao. Plus I think you can find someone attractive and not want to have sex with them. So even if you have a friend that’s “attractive,” it doesn’t automatically mean you’d be down to be intimate with them.
Also, ugly is kinda subjective. Because we could consider someone like I guess what society considers ugly (therefore nonthreatening to the girlfriend like the example you guys used) but to that conventionally attractive person/individual, they may be attractive. Even if to society, they’re not on the same level of beauty. Who is to say he or she didn’t actually find that unconventional/“ugly” person attractive? There’s a lot of things that can add to someone’s attractiveness like style, the way they carry themselves, personality etc. Someone “ugly” to everyone can be sooo attractive or have a lot of sex appeal after you get to know them or just based on how they carry themselves or you can sometimes have sexual chemistry with the person you expect it least with based on looks.
But with that said, I do know people that were jealous of a partner’s friend of the opposite sex and their partner told them not to worry because they’re just friends and then as soon as they broke up, the ex-partner dated the same friend he told her not to worry about 😅 which could have been random and sudden or they could have already had attraction/feelings. I think it’s case by case basis I guess lol.
I find myself agreeing with like everything Kelsey says 😂 It is a heteronormative conversation. I don’t think this is as much of an issue with queer relationships. I have friends who are men, women, nonbinary, trans, genderqueer, etc. Just gotta trust your partner and have communication! 🫶🏽
Oh no...this is the same conversation I had in elementary school. We all are here together and a lot of the time the opposite sex can understand our problems better than the same. Men and women can and should friends.
Loved the topic and loved how honest everyone was about their opinion. I could watch it for another hour…😊
Matt Rife, a stand-up comedian said it best "men and women can be friends. But that means. You Ugly." lmao
💯 😂
Its not just a Korean thing about people thinking that a men and women cant be friends, it just that in other parts of the world we dont care.
i definetly resonate with anna and soobin and david more .alot of what they say definetly makes more sense in the context of everything. overall i enjoyed and found it interessting the way korean views guy/girl friendships compared to the west.
It's not so much about having friends of the opposite sex for me, but if my friendships consisted of mostly men, I can understand why my bf/husband would have some concerns. Vice versa - if he had mostly friendships with women, I'd inquire about it. This is because it's unusual to my experiences. I have mostly girl friends; very few close guy friends. Others would be regarded as either coworkers or acquaintances.
Do you truly believe that a man and woman can be JUST friends?
I do:)
I honestly think no because one will always want something more than friendship
Yes I do.
Growing up, most of my friends were guys. But my husband doesn’t appreciate it, so I don’t hang out with them as I used to. We get together as couples.
Yes I do believe , my bff and I have been friends for 13 years , and nothing happened 😜 we have always helped eo with respective relationships 😂
Kelsey calling them old...they're not lol
i feel like straight people lead such sad constricted lives, i’m sorry. there so many nonsensical rules. who does what, who can’t do what, who you can talk to, how you can talk to them, who you can befriend, how you are allowed to show affection, it sounds absolutely exhausting.
such a good ep
my friend group has a equal balance of guys and girls and it's the best friends I've ever had. we all became friends in high school and now it's been 13 years and we are all still good friends. we call each other family.
Happy birthday Ana🎉🎉🎉
Very creepy heteronormative conversation, sounded like trying to justify sexual assault? korean dudes getting creeper by day 😅
I'm an American living in Korea, and understanding the taboo behind mixed-gender friendships has been weird. If the culture is so against this, then is the culture also known for cheating? My really close friends are both men and women. It's awkward when your friend doesn't have permission to hang out because her new boyfriend is insecure.
@32.19 That just means the guy doesn't take the relationship seriously. It doesn't mean that it's the girls fault??? The female friends are not the problem in this scenario, no matter how pretty they are. I'm not sure why "looks" keep coming up in this podcast in these strange contexts but it's really weird. Like, my boyfriend can have a female friend but I need to feel validated and secure in the relationship so she needs to be lesser/uglier than me. Like what? That honestly sounds like a you problem. I'm with Kelsey on this. She seemed so exhausted with this extremist lookism culture.
This episode was so much fun. I was dying laughing throughout the episode. 😂
This topic is so impresive from all episodes of KPC for me and always be the main struggle from couples that have opposite gender bestfriend with long friendship, thats why until now this thing genuinly interesting. Maybe, next episode I hope KPC will be talking about "what and when the limits or line of your partner its called cheating on you" I would thanks to David if he still invite them to discuss the topic that I recomend, because so far I love their each prespective. GBU❤
I will say I have chosen to be friends with good guys that I could have liked, but since it wasn't mutual, I still liked them and spent time with them as friends only.
would you still spent time with them when you're already married?
There's bound to be a difference between cultures when it comes to interactions with the opposite gender.
Yet it was kind of shocking to listen to these stories...given my "more open-minded western culture":
Be it the casual sleep-over without any sexual intentions when things got late (even with alcohol in the system) or just meeting up,
i can't think of a moment that could be seen as crossing the line with my buddys' girlfriends. And it was mutual trust.
Part of the reason is the 'Bro code': You don't touch your bro's girl. Ever. For that would be the end of your friendship and most probably their relationship, too.
But getting angry over him helping a female who clearly is struggling (opening glasses/bottles/bags, whatever)? What the actual fuck?!
If there's someone who needs help, of course i will try to do my best as a fellow living being.
Sidenote:
Over here it is considered impolite to NOT LOOK at each other while doing a toast. And guests usually get the first serving.
No hate but why do people keep pronouncing "women" as "woman". They aren't pronounced the same way. Idk if it's cool now or something but it drives me crazy....ok there is my unasked for comment. ✌️
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By korean society becoming more acceptable, are you referring to the conservative side or the liberal side?
I have a lot of guy friends
One of my dearest guy friends for 18 years now is a former boyfriend. We are mature and it was not uncomfortable going from dating to now just friends. No weirdness at all. My other guy friends I've known since we were kids. A brother/sister type of good friends thing.
Me as an Indian: has more guy friends than girl friends. Some girls can be damn bitchy, backstabbing, jealous freaks.
I m glad to hve a small group of people(both guys ang girls) whom i can genuinely trust than having a group of friends just bcoz they are girls but are back bitching.
I guess in korea as soon as a guy n girl become friends it comes with a perspective of being a couple😅.
I use too think I could be friends with men, but it was not so.
Your podcasts need to be 2hours long!
This whole chat just reminded me of Phoebe and Joey chat from Friends lol, in a good way.