WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE Been flying at 1000 degrees / sec with significant Expo and thought that was ok, until I saw this video and thought I give it a try. And yes I never used full travel unless these useless crazy flips, but now with 710 degrees / sec I suddenly fly a lot more peaceful, a lot smoother and a lot more accurate ... 3 laps around the house without crashing ;-) THANKS, I did learn something today!!!
Haha i flew with high rates for years and the vid's were always shaky and jumpy.. cut my rates in half and now i fly smoothly.. much better videos, looks like im in control !
It was a total game-changer. Dialed my rates back to around 400 on pitch and roll, and down to 300 on yaw, and the precision is out of this world! My quad's handling has gone through the roof, and I'm smoothly slicing through my old records. Upping the expo to 0.70 added buttery movements - it's all about that silky, precise control now. Totally in love with the flight feel! ✈🎮
Happy to see RR address this. In the past year, educating and working with other pilots on finding THEIR rates has been my biggest topic. So many people blindly follow what they see other pilots doing (Steele, for instance), but lack the ability to maintain proper control at these rates. Likewise, they have a tendency to focus on the motions at the end of the sticks while forgetting that MOST OF THE TIME you are living in the mid sticks, not the ends. Great video!
I'm right around 1000, but you guys convinced me to drop them some. I'd really like to see a part 2 look at super rate, expo, etc and how to balance all those.
This video was great and very helpful! Another thing that would be incredibly helpful to discuss is how rates/super/expo should be relative to each other, for both racing and freestyle. It would be fantastic if you could do a part 2 about that. Thanks for the great information!
I'm going to do that too. I'm a newbie, I hate my mantis 85, because I can't seem to get used to it. I was told to learn on Acro, but it's just too difficult
I have been running Shaun Taylor's rates for 2 years now. Great explanation of why rates matter so much. Thank you for sharing the best tip to the core of flying FPV
Heh, I bought a quad off of him, forgot to change rates. Yeah, same effect. Absolute wholesale change, within 24 hours I had moved the rates on every quad I owned (settled on 500/500/260 for now)
ok, I trust you guys, am lowering my rates, now that I actually feel I know what that means. Thanks again and again, I have been silent for years but feeling welcomed by the fpv community, I feel like you guys are family. Thanks Josh and Alex, and shoutout to flyhighdudes for bringing it to my attention. I hope y'all stay safe, happy flying🚀
Well this was a great refreshing quad learning day:) I spent 8 paks after adjusting my quads rates from Mr.Steeles rates that I had been using for about 2 years. I set up the left potentiometer on my qx7 to 3 separate rates, 1st @ 900, 2nd @ 800, and 3rd @ 700. I also tried 500, and 400. I really liked the 700/800 rates, the quad was sooo much more controllable and flight was what seemed to be really smooth and much more precise. I’ve been flying for about 2.5 yrs and I fly 5” aliens and 4.5” alien in betaflight, and 1 Kiss v1 Reverb. Thank you guys sooo much for this topic I would’ve never tried this before this post.
Great info! I'm just getting into the hobby and haven't done to much adjusting pids or rates or really anything on the software side but I'm slowing getting a solid understanding of it all because of videos like this. Thanks guys!
Awesome video lads. I'd love it if you made a part 2 of this video and explained each rate and what it does to achieve a desired effect for racing and freestyle. Hope you you get to see this. Thanks again fellas.
Thanks for all the info you guys put out. It does really help. I've been searching for the right rates up and down. I was really high at 1st then went really low and did'nt like that. So been around 1000 for a while. After watching I went to liftoff and dropped down to 700 and I think it does feel like I can fly more precise and smoother. I haven't tried in real life yet because of weather....but I will soon. Thanks again and happy flying.
I went from 1100˚sec to 800˚sec 3 months ago, it really helped me improve.. After watching this I feel like I should at least lower rates for yaw/pitch. Thanks a lot, I hope to see more videos like this! Idk about others but I struggle w/setup, don't get much time to fly and just want things to work..
Great video. Had me playing in the sims all night pondering flight patterns. Rate/800, Super/800, Expo/-400 which flattens the mid for better resolution and kicks the deflections up to a fast flick. Can't wait to get out in the morning and see how they translate.
Thanks for this one, guys. Still missing one thing again, as always when it comes to rates: The super rate and expo. Setting up a decent super rate can personalize the stick feel extremely, soften the curve just as u like, whereas the wrong (mainly too high) expo is making the ways of deflection feel like a minefield.. I use a minimal expo for the exact middle and very small control on tight areas. And super rates at about 1.70, soften a bit but not too much. Still I will try lower my 1100° / sec. and look once more what happens. Growing skills make the super rate less useful. Sry for the ramble attack xD
I know!!! The whole time I was waiting for them to start talking about expo. Im so tired of people only focusing on Max roll rate. Max roll rate is only a small part of the equation.
Yeah they seemed to equate both into one. I actually don't think JB likes Alex and I think he knows it and in turn doesn't really care for him either. So it was more of a quick discussion on the absolute basics.
@@streetzfpv 300 degrees per second is 300 degrees per second. The weight of the quad doesn't matter. Now if your gear can even get that rate is a completely different thing and setting your rates higher changes nothing.
@@streetzfpv I think you're confusing PIDs with rates here. A properly tuned quad with enough power will turn at 300dps if that's what your rate is, that's the whole point of having a PID controller. Different weights on your quad will cause different flight characteristics but it's down to available power and the PIDs, not your rate settings.
Good discussion guys. Lowered mine from 1000 to 800 and I think I like it! Feels smoother with better precision in gaps, but then again I've been flying about 8 months so still got my training wheels on :)
I agree with this video. I started off flying over 1000 degrees because I figured that's how we're meant to fly, and my current rates are still about 900 with a tonne of expo as I'm a thumber and I find I can't fly smoothly and I'm not really progressing any better. I recently tested Vanover, JB and LeDribs rates in Liftoff (there rates are on the Rotor Riot product page if anyone wants them). I found JBs rates nearly unflyable as he's over 1000 degrees on Yaw, but I found both LeDribs and Vanovers rates far better than my standard rates. I love the super slow rates that Vanover uses even though I didn't think I would. They gave me much more confidence to perform tricks and fly generally smoother and better. I also found LeDribs quite familiar feeling as I fly with different rates on all axis with my usual rates just like him, but I think think a mix of his separate rates per axis and Vanovers slower rates will be the ultimate rates for me. Honestly, if you haven't flown anything other than high rates then give this a try. I'm going to be putting lower rates on all my quadcopters
Cool tip with the stick travel end, but imo there are further very important things to be added here to get the whole picture of setting up rates - that's for example pinching vs. thumb drive, controller type/size in conjunction with hand size & adjustable sticks (height, input resistance, spring back or spring load) - in my experience when I have started as a thumb guy I had much lower rates because I think I wasn't able to pricisely control higher numbers. The other side was that I was however able to use the whole stick travel in my Taranis Q X7, so the lower numbers were more suitable for me at that time. Then I have reached a point in which I realised I want to be able to make quicker turns but not have to give up precision. I decided to force myself to pinching. At the beginning it was strange for me even looking at someone pinching. It seemed to me pinching not to be natural, because I came from Playstation & Xbox into FPV as most of us do, I think... I took me a week to get used to and BOY it made a difference ! I was easily able to manage +300-400deg./sec. and fly tighter the line. For me having two points of support is far better than only one which is shaky. I know it's a personal thing, it's not for everybody's taste, but for me it definately helped to progress. Talking personal I want to point out the second thing , which is controller type/size to hand size - I think it makes a huge difference having a correct chosen controller to your hand size (general palm size and finger lenght). I have however noticed that even having better overall experience by pinching (higher rates + better precision) my Taranis Q X7 is somehow handicapping my resolution. I have noticed that I am not able to reach the end of yaw right and roll left because the Q X7 is quite wide for my hands. I am therefore looking to step over to X9D which is narrower, to get the finger reach back. The adjustable sticks mentioned at the beginning are the best upgrade you can do to your rig. They provide you really with the last step of fine tuning your input. All the above comes down to setting up the rates in the end. It's a personal thing like a proper bikefitting is for a rider on a bicycle, it's a wrong way to take for example Mr. Steele's rates, because they are his personal "Taylor made like" numbers. It's also not properly to assume that racing pilots normally fly 400-600deg./sec. and for acro 800 to +1000deg./sec., it's personal like PID's are for a Quad. It should be set very low at the start and worked up in small increments as a pilot progresses. Phew... just a couple of additional words on that topic... Cheers!
Awesome topic! I am stoked you talked about racing rates. About a year ago I dropped into the 200 range and have been working it up. I am currently in the 350isg pitch and roll and 370ish yaw and planned on bumping it up!
I messed around with rates on a sim until I found something I like. I recommend to everyone to try these rates, whoever has has told me that they are great. 1.6 / 0.65 / 0.22 for freestyle (~900 degs full stick) 1.6 / 0.52 / 0.22 for racing (~500 degs full stick) Basically gives you the ability to both be snappy and smooth center stick. Absolute control of the quad.
Same here, I would play with rates and actually rate the rates... ie: this set of rates are good for craving, this is good for snapping, this is buttery, this is good for yaw maneuvers... So on and so on... I've probably been through no less then 30 variations on rates and then putting them on a 3 position switch on my real quad to see which one I liked best kept doing this till I found what works for me. Now as a result I can fly almost any rates out there and in under a pack make them work... May not feel natural to me but I find it pretty easy to switch if I need to.
@@ugpfpv361 I've flown other people's rates and generally it takes me a pack or two to get used to them but it's not that hard. Sure I can't do tricks that involve muscle memory but I can still fly the thing decently. One important thing I forgot to mention, I keep the rates on all 3 axis the same, which I think is important. That way I can scale my rates faster or slower easier.
@@le_ti_lik yeah it takes a second to get tricks down with rates way out from what your used too just basically have to learn where the stop limits are ie: if someone gave me a quad with 1700 max dps there's no way I would go to the ends of the stick, most of the problem will come from too little expo, but I'm used to that. I've tried having all 3 the same but just doesn't feel right to me.. Maybe if I was down to 800 on all three it wouldn't be too bad. I kind of go with the Kabab method of rates, start with what you think should be a full roll/flip and work your way back from there.
Plus I had never used the Rate Profile tab, or the Adjustments tab in betaflight:) I definitely learned something today setting up a potentiometer to (3) different rate profiles that I can switch to in flight along with the corresponding rate number in my OSD so I can see which rate profile I’m in while in the air! Thanks Again Dudes!!
I've always used the same rates for all three axes. Now I can't wait to try to both lower my rates, and use different rates depending on the axis! I've heard several people now, say that yaw can actually be pretty low, followed by pitch and having the roll axis as the quickest.
Alex and Joshua touched on something that i think is over looked and that is those super fast flippies rolls etc. Those move suck to watch. They really do. It's my opinion. But if the entire sport was the super quick flippies I would have loaded another you tube page and moved on to another sport. But watching smooth precise moves makes you feel like you are on board. That's what hooks us into this great sport. thats why I enjoy LeDrib so much he has flow. And that is fun to watch. When you watch racers at the pro level they are just flipping through gates at mach chicken it's cool for few minutes but after some time you cant even tell if they made the gates. I super respect what they do and of course this is what is needed to win. But to watch super tight gates not as much fun as nice flow. Now DRL is fun to watch. Thanks for great videos. Your both super pilots and i do enjoy watching you fellows fly and teach me more every day. Thank you
1018 degrees here for 3 years ,been trying to knock my expo down a little bit from 30% to 25% recently to get more centre stick sensitivity and feel a bit more linear
So glad u did this vid. Something that's always been on my mind. I'm ok at freestyle but suk at racing. Flown quads now for about two years. Thanku. Il give it a try
Something nobody talks about.....take all the super rate out for racing. Super rate is a very unpredictable spike in the rates through the overall stick travel. 1.9 on RC rates and .30 on all expos. That’s it.
I found a good rule of thumb for freestyle was to tune your rates so that a full stick flick would result in 180° rotation on that axis for pitch and roll. Yaw, I tuned a little less based on feel
I used to run 1100 deg/sec but, after watching Alex fly at quad camp and talking to him about it, I reduced my rates to 800, because I realized it made my flying a lot smoother and my flips and rolls were just as snappy.
When I started flying I used high rates and got used to it. I liked the double snap rolls and stuff, but once I lowered them I never went back! Low rates help you smooth out your flying A LOT!
completely agree with it, myself 650 degree, but with a super rate enabled (no expo), so center is less agrassive than stick ends. Also I increase resolution on the throttle, by setting a curve. The first15% part of throttle stick can be steep, it just used to get quad to hover, than a nice expo curve were more throttle resolution in slower flying speeds.
This was an awesome discussion! I have my rates on a switch. Y’all convinced me to try even lower rates. Currently at 800. Going to try 600 and 400 on my switch. Thanks!
I have recently upped my rates to 940 on pitch and roll. I feel less confident with these changes. My rates was in the high 700's before. I am getting more used to it now, but it still makes the flying less comfortable and fun. But i though most good pilots ran higher rates. So i was thinking i might as well keep on practicing with higher rates than i am comfortable with. I think i will turn back the dial a bit after watching this.
First I jumped on the sim and just lowered my rates WAY down. I saw the positive difference immediately so I jumped to a quad. Lowered the rates down and left my rc rate and super rate what may be considered just a touch high. I instantly had way more of a locked on and smooth feeling for flight and while I don’t have Mr Steele snaps happening I do have a much more controllable quad.
Custom Taranis curves can make you look like a superhero. I keep my roll and pitch rates at 1200, but it doesn’t happen until the last outer 5% of stick deflection. My quads fly like 700s until the stick hits the plastic. Tons of resolution and predictability, but also the ability to snap a roll/pitch 180 with a quick tap.
Have to agree with playing with rates. I just finished an Arc-1 build and wound up and lowered my race rates a bit and I immediately noticed a difference. My freestyle rates I started lowering a couple months ago and I think I’m around 850 right now. So much more control.
I've lowered my rates down to low 700's over time. I once had 1k,1k,1k like stingy. But I'm used to my lower rates and feel like I have more precise control. Good tip JB and Vanover!
As I've always said it's not your max dps, its how you get there. Which is why I wish the developers would give use more options on where the break point of the expo curve is. Also I'm glad not everyone has low syrupy rates sometime when watching I actually start to daybreak or fall asleep...lol
OMG Thanks so much, not sure what I started with but learned a little about Rates so I lowered mine a bit which helped but felt like lower more would be too much and I was sat about 600 ish, lowered to 400 feel like 10 times better pilot already after only 20 mins.
Interesting. I've been flying since 2015 and I've gone from 1000, to 1400, to 950, to... Lately, I've been experimenting with 650 deg/s. This is all freestyle. For racing, around 550 or so. For the last 5 weeks specifically I've been editing my freestyle rates during just about every session. I've finally found something that I intend to stick with for quite a while.
Use to be high rates but was too jittery and just couldn't accurately go where I wanted, knocked them down to 566P/566R/500Y, been flying those ever since👍
Start flying over a year ago with 1200 per second, now it’s 840, and want to low them something about 650 - 700 per second. I started as freestyle pilot, meet some people in neighborhood that were racing pilots, start racing - and low rates are definitely better for me now.
And sticks, hands and sticks.. If you`re the kind of guy that doesn`t like going full deflection on the sticks, or maybe have smaller hands, higher rates and some exponential could be nice. Some radios I`ve used, getting to full stick made me loose grip and control, so ergonomics should be considered IMHO :) Maybe that`s just a given from the beginning, but thought it worth a mention.
Yeah, I fly higher rates with some expo because I prefer not having to deflect the stick fully (especially on YAW for some reason). It's just more comfortable for me. I'll definitely try experimenting with lower rates though.
Agreed, just running lower rates but far less expo would not get you any smoother... And if this was supposed to be aimed at people just starting out....
This video assumes that you have an expo curve that you like, and simply encourages you to reduce your max rate while leaving expo alone. This video is not supposed to be a 100% primer on rates, although a followup discussing expo and S.rate would be great.
Usually like my yaw about 2/3rds of my pitch and roll. Sitting at 1250 pitch and roll and 950 yaw but I think my precision could use work. Gonna try this.
I’m off tomorrow from work and currently/ironically I’ve been running Steele’s rates for like 1.5yrs, but will try setting p,&r to 700, and y at 600 and give 5 packs a go:)
"lets say your rates are 1000 degrees per second" *_(everyone turns to the camera and says in unison)_* "your rates are 1000 degrees per second" Mine are on all my quads, I only freestyle and I have pretty much got the muscle memory down for the snap flips & rolls at full stick deflection, the lower stick resolution makes smooth 'swoops' a challenge, one that I like.
I have pretty high rates I guess, 1133 I think og pitch and roll, default on yaw. I add expo though. If I lower the rates I just can't fly right. But I guess it's just a a lot of practice to lower it without feeling the drone is "wrong".
Just playing with RC rates alone got me no where. It was expo and super rates that made the change in feel I needed for freestyle. .7 RC rate, .8 super rate and .2 expo. Got the smooth.
It would be interesting to see a video about how you should progress your rates as you're learning to fly. I wonder if that would impact how fast you learn.
You guys should do more of this video style. With different people on the crew, like one of you gets a topic and you interview/ convo on it for 10 minutes. would be a good way to generate relevant content. even though its not flashy. you could also do one like Versus. , where you have a mediator get comparitive/contrasting opinions from two pilots.
My freestyle rates are stock betaflight, so around 667 degrees...but I recently dropped my race rates down into the 3-400ish range and it's much better for sure for the racing precision needed.
I was running homologous rates across my fleet thinking it would help me but I am inspired to lower my rates for racing and keep them high ish for freestyle now. Thanks
I typically fly BetaFlight 4.0 FreeStyle with RC Rate .84, Super Rate .83, Expo .20 = 900 Degrees Per Second for Pitch and Roll and RC Rate .83, Super Rate .73 = 700 Degrees for Yaw
920 with expo so i keep it pretty locked in smooth when lower down but the snap is there if need be. Came from 800/800/700 on betaflight to FlightOne and left that around default to get the higher rates, but love it. I will be dropping it back down slowly though as the full deflection moves dont sit too well at this rate with hypersmooth LOL
@Joshua: I am using Betaflight to find my rates. I find it very odd no one has ever mentioned that BF is actually showing the maneuvers exactly on the PID review screen if you connect your radio. I spent hours dialing in the muscle memory by using this method. I started off by finding out my comfy full end stick speed then I changed my numbers accordingly to finish on a half roll every time (for normal flying - most recently Vortex has suggested the same while coaching Chad) or to finish the exact same move with a full roll - for fast acro. I then set the two sets of rates and change it in OSD when needed.
I'm freestyling and used to fly much higher rates as well. Now I'm down to around 750 °/s... And I still think, I might go a bit lower. It's just so gorgeously smooth, compared to the way I flew before..
Started with defaults (660?), moved up to ~1000 and actually increased it to almost 1500 with high expo a while back. For racing it's way too high, but I like it. Definitely think it's a good idea to try different setups though, I'll have to play with it in the sim with some courses.
9:15 you say you lower your yaw rates, to reduce stick deflection. Surly that would do the oppersite, because more stick travel would be needed to compensate for the lower rate to get round the turn .
Once I got over the macho "I fly massive rates" and put them down, I flew much better. Interesting about how low Alex's yaw rates are. When you are racing at full tilt (literally) then you hardly need any yaw - its all right stick control!
Unpopular opinion, pinching the sticks allows for more accurate micro-movements on the sticks. I feel pinchers prefer higher rates because of this. I also find trowing the sticks around to the limit easier with thumbs. (For context too, I am using extended sticks and pinch the controls)
For freestyle I like to have a 180° flip/roll when I kick the stick fully to one side and back. That’s at around 1200° for me. But I just achieve that with super rate(in BF). I like my rates very low/smooth in my stick center. I use below 1(in Bf) which would be just around 250° without super rate.
When I was flying I was running 1250 pitch and roll and 1000 yaw. If I ever get back in the air, I'd be interested in dropping to 850ish for a few packs. Might make my flights look less like my quad has epilepsy.
Style of freestyle I think affect rates like Steele type stuff compared to drib flowy stuff. Also thumbing and pinching I feel affects rates too. I've gone back and forth from lower and higher and cant seem to find the middle ground that I actually like.
Here are 4 config of rates that all are at 667 deg/sec at full stick, but TOTALLY different "in the middle". That demonstrate that "full stick" information does not represent the "global" sensibility : Rate 1 ; Super 0,7 ; Expo 0 = 47 deg/s at 1600 ; 111 deg/s at 1700 ; 667 deg/s at 2000 Rate 2 ; Super 0,4 ; Expo 0 = 87 deg/s at 1600 ; 190 deg/s at 1700 ; 667 deg/s at 2000 Rate 0,7 ; Super 0,79 ; Expo 0,5 = 15 deg/s at 1600 ; 36 deg/s at 1700 ; 667 deg/s at 2000 Details here : docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-6cyl0YVOvHhW2Qh7BW016jJcsB8NCuDEwEOaTnUH44/edit#gid=1499834563
WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE
Been flying at 1000 degrees / sec with significant Expo and thought that was ok, until I saw this video and thought I give it a try. And yes I never used full travel unless these useless crazy flips, but now with 710 degrees / sec I suddenly fly a lot more peaceful, a lot smoother and a lot more accurate ... 3 laps around the house without crashing ;-)
THANKS, I did learn something today!!!
Haha i flew with high rates for years and the vid's were always shaky and jumpy.. cut my rates in half and now i fly smoothly.. much better videos, looks like im in control !
It was a total game-changer. Dialed my rates back to around 400 on pitch and roll, and down to 300 on yaw, and the precision is out of this world! My quad's handling has gone through the roof, and I'm smoothly slicing through my old records. Upping the expo to 0.70 added buttery movements - it's all about that silky, precise control now. Totally in love with the flight feel! ✈🎮
Happy to see RR address this. In the past year, educating and working with other pilots on finding THEIR rates has been my biggest topic. So many people blindly follow what they see other pilots doing (Steele, for instance), but lack the ability to maintain proper control at these rates. Likewise, they have a tendency to focus on the motions at the end of the sticks while forgetting that MOST OF THE TIME you are living in the mid sticks, not the ends. Great video!
I'm right around 1000, but you guys convinced me to drop them some. I'd really like to see a part 2 look at super rate, expo, etc and how to balance all those.
yeah me to 👍
Try this docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-6cyl0YVOvHhW2Qh7BW016jJcsB8NCuDEwEOaTnUH44/edit?usp=drivesdk
Yeaaa but what combination should we use with RC and Super rates?
This video was great and very helpful! Another thing that would be incredibly helpful to discuss is how rates/super/expo should be relative to each other, for both racing and freestyle. It would be fantastic if you could do a part 2 about that. Thanks for the great information!
I lowered my rates to 100., flys great., just like a DJI haha :p
lol your comment and your thumbnail picture are precise.
Fuck yeah lol
I'm going to do that too. I'm a newbie, I hate my mantis 85, because I can't seem to get used to it. I was told to learn on Acro, but it's just too difficult
@@dame5014 Get a sim. It's how I learned before flying my quad
@@upplsuckimcool16 lmfao I’m dead bro!! 😂😂😂😂
I have been running Shaun Taylor's rates for 2 years now. Great explanation of why rates matter so much. Thank you for sharing the best tip to the core of flying FPV
Heh, I bought a quad off of him, forgot to change rates. Yeah, same effect. Absolute wholesale change, within 24 hours I had moved the rates on every quad I owned (settled on 500/500/260 for now)
750° on pitch and roll and 650° on yaw is where I’ve settled on for now.
Good video guys, really helpful information.
ok, I trust you guys, am lowering my rates, now that I actually feel I know what that means. Thanks again and again, I have been silent for years but feeling welcomed by the fpv community, I feel like you guys are family. Thanks Josh and Alex, and shoutout to flyhighdudes for bringing it to my attention. I hope y'all stay safe, happy flying🚀
Well this was a great refreshing quad learning day:) I spent 8 paks after adjusting my quads rates from Mr.Steeles rates that I had been using for about 2 years. I set up the left potentiometer on my qx7 to 3 separate rates, 1st @ 900, 2nd @ 800, and 3rd @ 700. I also tried 500, and 400. I really liked the 700/800 rates, the quad was sooo much more controllable and flight was what seemed to be really smooth and much more precise. I’ve been flying for about 2.5 yrs and I fly 5” aliens and 4.5” alien in betaflight, and 1 Kiss v1 Reverb. Thank you guys sooo much for this topic I would’ve never tried this before this post.
I think more people needed to hear this than they want to hear. It’s easier to learn lower rates then bump up as you need
Great info! I'm just getting into the hobby and haven't done to much adjusting pids or rates or really anything on the software side but I'm slowing getting a solid understanding of it all because of videos like this. Thanks guys!
Awesome video lads.
I'd love it if you made a part 2 of this video and explained each rate and what it does to achieve a desired effect for racing and freestyle.
Hope you you get to see this. Thanks again fellas.
Over 1200°/sec here and I love it.
But I'll give this a try.
Thanks for all the info you guys put out. It does really help. I've been searching for the right rates up and down. I was really high at 1st then went really low and did'nt like that. So been around 1000 for a while. After watching I went to liftoff and dropped down to 700 and I think it does feel like I can fly more precise and smoother. I haven't tried in real life yet because of weather....but I will soon. Thanks again and happy flying.
I went from 1100˚sec to 800˚sec 3 months ago, it really helped me improve.. After watching this I feel like I should at least lower rates for yaw/pitch. Thanks a lot, I hope to see more videos like this! Idk about others but I struggle w/setup, don't get much time to fly and just want things to work..
Love the vids, been watching you guys for a while. your the reason i in to fpv
Great video. Had me playing in the sims all night pondering flight patterns. Rate/800, Super/800, Expo/-400 which flattens the mid for better resolution and kicks the deflections up to a fast flick. Can't wait to get out in the morning and see how they translate.
Thanks for this one, guys. Still missing one thing again, as always when it comes to rates: The super rate and expo. Setting up a decent super rate can personalize the stick feel extremely, soften the curve just as u like, whereas the wrong (mainly too high) expo is making the ways of deflection feel like a minefield..
I use a minimal expo for the exact middle and very small control on tight areas. And super rates at about 1.70, soften a bit but not too much.
Still I will try lower my 1100° / sec. and look once more what happens. Growing skills make the super rate less useful.
Sry for the ramble attack xD
Nice video, but how the heck can you talk about rates and having too little resolution in the middle without talking about expo?!?!
I know!!! The whole time I was waiting for them to start talking about expo. Im so tired of people only focusing on Max roll rate. Max roll rate is only a small part of the equation.
i know, im running high rates with a far bit of expo to return fine control to the middle.
Yeah they seemed to equate both into one.
I actually don't think JB likes Alex and I think he knows it and in turn doesn't really care for him either. So it was more of a quick discussion on the absolute basics.
@@streetzfpv 300 degrees per second is 300 degrees per second. The weight of the quad doesn't matter. Now if your gear can even get that rate is a completely different thing and setting your rates higher changes nothing.
@@streetzfpv I think you're confusing PIDs with rates here. A properly tuned quad with enough power will turn at 300dps if that's what your rate is, that's the whole point of having a PID controller. Different weights on your quad will cause different flight characteristics but it's down to available power and the PIDs, not your rate settings.
It's like mouse sensivity. Fly with what you feel comfortable. I just fly default rates. They work perfect for me.
I always played black ops with max sensitivity and pwnd...
Why change that strategy now?
Good discussion guys. Lowered mine from 1000 to 800 and I think I like it! Feels smoother with better precision in gaps, but then again I've been flying about 8 months so still got my training wheels on :)
I agree with this video. I started off flying over 1000 degrees because I figured that's how we're meant to fly, and my current rates are still about 900 with a tonne of expo as I'm a thumber and I find I can't fly smoothly and I'm not really progressing any better.
I recently tested Vanover, JB and LeDribs rates in Liftoff (there rates are on the Rotor Riot product page if anyone wants them). I found JBs rates nearly unflyable as he's over 1000 degrees on Yaw, but I found both LeDribs and Vanovers rates far better than my standard rates. I love the super slow rates that Vanover uses even though I didn't think I would. They gave me much more confidence to perform tricks and fly generally smoother and better. I also found LeDribs quite familiar feeling as I fly with different rates on all axis with my usual rates just like him, but I think think a mix of his separate rates per axis and Vanovers slower rates will be the ultimate rates for me.
Honestly, if you haven't flown anything other than high rates then give this a try. I'm going to be putting lower rates on all my quadcopters
This is a helpful episode I can't wait for the tips of Alex vanover on racing
Cool tip with the stick travel end, but imo there are further very important things to be added here to get the whole picture of setting up rates - that's for example pinching vs. thumb drive, controller type/size in conjunction with hand size & adjustable sticks (height, input resistance, spring back or spring load) - in my experience when I have started as a thumb guy I had much lower rates because I think I wasn't able to pricisely control higher numbers. The other side was that I was however able to use the whole stick travel in my Taranis Q X7, so the lower numbers were more suitable for me at that time. Then I have reached a point in which I realised I want to be able to make quicker turns but not have to give up precision. I decided to force myself to pinching. At the beginning it was strange for me even looking at someone pinching. It seemed to me pinching not to be natural, because I came from Playstation & Xbox into FPV as most of us do, I think... I took me a week to get used to and BOY it made a difference ! I was easily able to manage +300-400deg./sec. and fly tighter the line. For me having two points of support is far better than only one which is shaky. I know it's a personal thing, it's not for everybody's taste, but for me it definately helped to progress. Talking personal I want to point out the second thing , which is controller type/size to hand size - I think it makes a huge difference having a correct chosen controller to your hand size (general palm size and finger lenght). I have however noticed that even having better overall experience by pinching (higher rates + better precision) my Taranis Q X7 is somehow handicapping my resolution. I have noticed that I am not able to reach the end of yaw right and roll left because the Q X7 is quite wide for my hands. I am therefore looking to step over to X9D which is narrower, to get the finger reach back. The adjustable sticks mentioned at the beginning are the best upgrade you can do to your rig. They provide you really with the last step of fine tuning your input. All the above comes down to setting up the rates in the end. It's a personal thing like a proper bikefitting is for a rider on a bicycle, it's a wrong way to take for example Mr. Steele's rates, because they are his personal "Taylor made like" numbers. It's also not properly to assume that racing pilots normally fly 400-600deg./sec. and for acro 800 to +1000deg./sec., it's personal like PID's are for a Quad. It should be set very low at the start and worked up in small increments as a pilot progresses. Phew... just a couple of additional words on that topic... Cheers!
Awesome topic! I am stoked you talked about racing rates. About a year ago I dropped into the 200 range and have been working it up. I am currently in the 350isg pitch and roll and 370ish yaw and planned on bumping it up!
I messed around with rates on a sim until I found something I like.
I recommend to everyone to try these rates, whoever has has told me that they are great.
1.6 / 0.65 / 0.22 for freestyle (~900 degs full stick)
1.6 / 0.52 / 0.22 for racing (~500 degs full stick)
Basically gives you the ability to both be snappy and smooth center stick. Absolute control of the quad.
Same here, I would play with rates and actually rate the rates... ie: this set of rates are good for craving, this is good for snapping, this is buttery, this is good for yaw maneuvers... So on and so on... I've probably been through no less then 30 variations on rates and then putting them on a 3 position switch on my real quad to see which one I liked best kept doing this till I found what works for me.
Now as a result I can fly almost any rates out there and in under a pack make them work... May not feel natural to me but I find it pretty easy to switch if I need to.
@@ugpfpv361 I've flown other people's rates and generally it takes me a pack or two to get used to them but it's not that hard. Sure I can't do tricks that involve muscle memory but I can still fly the thing decently.
One important thing I forgot to mention, I keep the rates on all 3 axis the same, which I think is important.
That way I can scale my rates faster or slower easier.
@@le_ti_lik yeah it takes a second to get tricks down with rates way out from what your used too just basically have to learn where the stop limits are ie: if someone gave me a quad with 1700 max dps there's no way I would go to the ends of the stick, most of the problem will come from too little expo, but I'm used to that.
I've tried having all 3 the same but just doesn't feel right to me.. Maybe if I was down to 800 on all three it wouldn't be too bad.
I kind of go with the Kabab method of rates, start with what you think should be a full roll/flip and work your way back from there.
Oh, nice flying by the way!
@@ugpfpv361 Thanks man. Yeah, Kabab method was how I did it too. Full deflection to what feels like it should be half a roll, then go from there.
Plus I had never used the Rate Profile tab, or the Adjustments tab in betaflight:) I definitely learned something today setting up a potentiometer to (3) different rate profiles that I can switch to in flight along with the corresponding rate number in my OSD so I can see which rate profile I’m in while in the air! Thanks Again Dudes!!
I've always used the same rates for all three axes. Now I can't wait to try to both lower my rates, and use different rates depending on the axis! I've heard several people now, say that yaw can actually be pretty low, followed by pitch and having the roll axis as the quickest.
Alex and Joshua touched on something that i think is over looked and that is those super fast flippies rolls etc. Those move suck to watch. They really do. It's my opinion. But if the entire sport was the super quick flippies I would have loaded another you tube page and moved on to another sport. But watching smooth precise moves makes you feel like you are on board. That's what hooks us into this great sport. thats why I enjoy LeDrib so much he has flow. And that is fun to watch. When you watch racers at the pro level they are just flipping through gates at mach chicken it's cool for few minutes but after some time you cant even tell if they made the gates. I super respect what they do and of course this is what is needed to win. But to watch super tight gates not as much fun as nice flow. Now DRL is fun to watch. Thanks for great videos. Your both super pilots and i do enjoy watching you fellows fly and teach me more every day. Thank you
I lol'd when Alex just looked at the cam with displeasure on 300° per sec. Tell em how it is young one
1018 degrees here for 3 years ,been trying to knock my expo down a little bit from 30% to 25% recently to get more centre stick sensitivity and feel a bit more linear
So glad u did this vid. Something that's always been on my mind. I'm ok at freestyle but suk at racing. Flown quads now for about two years. Thanku. Il give it a try
Yup started with 1200 deg/s and dropped to 780 deg/s about 6 months ago. This video confirms what I thought. 👍
Josh & Alex have great on screen cemastry together.. hope to see more dueits ..
Something nobody talks about.....take all the super rate out for racing. Super rate is a very unpredictable spike in the rates through the overall stick travel. 1.9 on RC rates and .30 on all expos. That’s it.
Yes, thats a good topic for a part-2 of this interresting talk. Some words about "elbow-rates" and what the experts use for expo and/or superrate.
I found a good rule of thumb for freestyle was to tune your rates so that a full stick flick would result in 180° rotation on that axis for pitch and roll. Yaw, I tuned a little less based on feel
I used to run 1100 deg/sec but, after watching Alex fly at quad camp and talking to him about it, I reduced my rates to 800, because I realized it made my flying a lot smoother and my flips and rolls were just as snappy.
When I started flying I used high rates and got used to it. I liked the double snap rolls and stuff, but once I lowered them I never went back! Low rates help you smooth out your flying A LOT!
completely agree with it, myself 650 degree, but with a super rate enabled (no expo), so center is less agrassive than stick ends. Also I increase resolution on the throttle, by setting a curve. The first15% part of throttle stick can be steep, it just used to get quad to hover, than a nice expo curve were more throttle resolution in slower flying speeds.
Thanks guys as a new pilot this helped me out a lot 🙏
Neither one of you has a clue......how much this helped me.
How many races have to be won, and amazing freestyle moves done in order to give them the credibility you’re looking for?
Oops I didn't finish my comment. Sorry guys .....editing it now.
This was an awesome discussion! I have my rates on a switch. Y’all convinced me to try even lower rates. Currently at 800. Going to try 600 and 400 on my switch. Thanks!
How you put the rates on a switch?
I have recently upped my rates to 940 on pitch and roll. I feel less confident with these changes.
My rates was in the high 700's before. I am getting more used to it now, but it still makes the flying less comfortable and fun.
But i though most good pilots ran higher rates. So i was thinking i might as well keep on practicing with higher rates than i am comfortable with.
I think i will turn back the dial a bit after watching this.
I watched this. Did what you said....BAM! world of difference. Thank you.
bryan maynard did you apply lower rate to rc rate or super rate or both? Trying to figure out what they meant as rate sounded like super rates
First I jumped on the sim and just lowered my rates WAY down. I saw the positive difference immediately so I jumped to a quad. Lowered the rates down and left my rc rate and super rate what may be considered just a touch high. I instantly had way more of a locked on and smooth feeling for flight and while I don’t have Mr Steele snaps happening I do have a much more controllable quad.
So good thanks guy for sitting down and just going over a subject in detail
Custom Taranis curves can make you look like a superhero. I keep my roll and pitch rates at 1200, but it doesn’t happen until the last outer 5% of stick deflection. My quads fly like 700s until the stick hits the plastic. Tons of resolution and predictability, but also the ability to snap a roll/pitch 180 with a quick tap.
Excellent way of explaining rates. I understand it so much better now.
Have to agree with playing with rates. I just finished an Arc-1 build and wound up and lowered my race rates a bit and I immediately noticed a difference. My freestyle rates I started lowering a couple months ago and I think I’m around 850 right now. So much more control.
I've lowered my rates down to low 700's over time. I once had 1k,1k,1k like stingy. But I'm used to my lower rates and feel like I have more precise control.
Good tip JB and Vanover!
This is useful. I got used to the Emax bhr stock rates (900 d/s) and applied them to all my quads; I’ll rethink them.
As I've always said it's not your max dps, its how you get there.
Which is why I wish the developers would give use more options on where the break point of the expo curve is.
Also I'm glad not everyone has low syrupy rates sometime when watching I actually start to daybreak or fall asleep...lol
OMG Thanks so much, not sure what I started with but learned a little about Rates so I lowered mine a bit which helped but felt like lower more would be too much and I was sat about 600 ish, lowered to 400 feel like 10 times better pilot already after only 20 mins.
Now i undestand the rates, thanks Joshua
What about expo? And rc rate vs super rate, I don't think it's as simple as just degrees per second. Am I wrong?
dial in the rates first, then add expo if you need it
Super has built in expo
its evident that these guys are content to cruise around without doing very many technical maneuvers
Interesting. I've been flying since 2015 and I've gone from 1000, to 1400, to 950, to... Lately, I've been experimenting with 650 deg/s. This is all freestyle. For racing, around 550 or so. For the last 5 weeks specifically I've been editing my freestyle rates during just about every session. I've finally found something that I intend to stick with for quite a while.
Use to be high rates but was too jittery and just couldn't accurately go where I wanted, knocked them down to 566P/566R/500Y, been flying those ever since👍
Start flying over a year ago with 1200 per second, now it’s 840, and want to low them something about 650 - 700 per second. I started as freestyle pilot, meet some people in neighborhood that were racing pilots, start racing - and low rates are definitely better for me now.
Thanks guys loved the video. I will go out and mess with my rates and see how it goes. It's something I normally do not touch.
Thank you for the Help :) 👌🏼✌🏼👍🏼
And sticks, hands and sticks..
If you`re the kind of guy that doesn`t like going full deflection on the sticks, or maybe have smaller hands, higher rates and some exponential could be nice.
Some radios I`ve used, getting to full stick made me loose grip and control, so ergonomics should be considered IMHO :)
Maybe that`s just a given from the beginning, but thought it worth a mention.
Yeah, I fly higher rates with some expo because I prefer not having to deflect the stick fully (especially on YAW for some reason). It's just more comfortable for me. I'll definitely try experimenting with lower rates though.
I agree, buttttt just add expo. You omitted that fact Steele uses .28 expo on roll and pitch, and .12 on yaw
I agree, they should make a follow up video talking about expo and how it effects things.
Agreed, just running lower rates but far less expo would not get you any smoother... And if this was supposed to be aimed at people just starting out....
This video assumes that you have an expo curve that you like, and simply encourages you to reduce your max rate while leaving expo alone. This video is not supposed to be a 100% primer on rates, although a followup discussing expo and S.rate would be great.
@@JoshuaBardwell oh ok. Thank you
@@JoshuaBardwell yes it's almost necessary now.
Usually like my yaw about 2/3rds of my pitch and roll. Sitting at 1250 pitch and roll and 950 yaw but I think my precision could use work. Gonna try this.
I'd just hit the like button after Alex demonstrate how "snap flip floppy" is.
I’m off tomorrow from work and currently/ironically I’ve been running Steele’s rates for like 1.5yrs, but will try setting p,&r to 700, and y at 600 and give 5 packs a go:)
And, what you say after these 5 packs?
Maybe I’ll actually play with my rates and stuff now! Awesome video, guys!
Lots to think about! I’ve always just ran defaults (except when Jon tuned my Nova)
@@LittleStellarFox oops I edited my comment with all my rates (I had a slight mistake that I fixed) in case you took a screenshot.....
"lets say your rates are 1000 degrees per second"
*_(everyone turns to the camera and says in unison)_* "your rates are 1000 degrees per second"
Mine are on all my quads, I only freestyle and I have pretty much got the muscle memory down for the snap flips & rolls at full stick deflection, the lower stick resolution makes smooth 'swoops' a challenge, one that I like.
I have pretty high rates I guess, 1133 I think og pitch and roll, default on yaw. I add expo though. If I lower the rates I just can't fly right. But I guess it's just a a lot of practice to lower it without feeling the drone is "wrong".
Just playing with RC rates alone got me no where. It was expo and super rates that made the change in feel I needed for freestyle. .7 RC rate, .8 super rate and .2 expo. Got the smooth.
It would be interesting to see a video about how you should progress your rates as you're learning to fly. I wonder if that would impact how fast you learn.
You guys should do more of this video style. With different people on the crew, like one of you gets a topic and you interview/ convo on it for 10 minutes. would be a good way to generate relevant content. even though its not flashy. you could also do one like Versus. , where you have a mediator get comparitive/contrasting opinions from two pilots.
My freestyle rates are stock betaflight, so around 667 degrees...but I recently dropped my race rates down into the 3-400ish range and it's much better for sure for the racing precision needed.
Got mine sorted out in flight simulator:) Few more tweaks in real life and I'm right on the spot.
just waiting for the Zoroe chat show edit! with canned applause and stuff!
I was running homologous rates across my fleet thinking it would help me but I am inspired to lower my rates for racing and keep them high ish for freestyle now. Thanks
What a huuge difference that made! My sweet spot is 450 degrees/sec for super smooth flying.
I typically fly BetaFlight 4.0 FreeStyle with RC Rate .84, Super Rate .83, Expo .20 = 900 Degrees Per Second for Pitch and Roll and RC Rate .83, Super Rate .73 = 700 Degrees for Yaw
920 with expo so i keep it pretty locked in smooth when lower down but the snap is there if need be. Came from 800/800/700 on betaflight to FlightOne and left that around default to get the higher rates, but love it. I will be dropping it back down slowly though as the full deflection moves dont sit too well at this rate with hypersmooth LOL
@Joshua: I am using Betaflight to find my rates. I find it very odd no one has ever mentioned that BF is actually showing the maneuvers exactly on the PID review screen if you connect your radio. I spent hours dialing in the muscle memory by using this method. I started off by finding out my comfy full end stick speed then I changed my numbers accordingly to finish on a half roll every time (for normal flying - most recently Vortex has suggested the same while coaching Chad) or to finish the exact same move with a full roll - for fast acro. I then set the two sets of rates and change it in OSD when needed.
I'm freestyling and used to fly much higher rates as well. Now I'm down to around 750 °/s... And I still think, I might go a bit lower. It's just so gorgeously smooth, compared to the way I flew before..
Why nothing about expo and super rates?! 🤪 😅
yeah i asked same thing to my self
Thanks guys. Great video. I’ll try. Been flying 1100 -1000
Thanks Alex and Joshua - I learnt something today
Same applies to video games. Lowering your sensitivity drastically increases accuracy.
Yes but you are death before u can aim.
Started with defaults (660?), moved up to ~1000 and actually increased it to almost 1500 with high expo a while back. For racing it's way too high, but I like it. Definitely think it's a good idea to try different setups though, I'll have to play with it in the sim with some courses.
Interesting topic! I am experienting with Rates on VelociDrone since wild Willys video
9:15 you say you lower your yaw rates, to reduce stick deflection. Surly that would do the oppersite, because more stick travel would be needed to compensate for the lower rate to get round the turn .
You're right -- that's backwards :-)
Once I got over the macho "I fly massive rates" and put them down, I flew much better. Interesting about how low Alex's yaw rates are. When you are racing at full tilt (literally) then you hardly need any yaw - its all right stick control!
Thanks guys super good info here!
Unpopular opinion, pinching the sticks allows for more accurate micro-movements on the sticks. I feel pinchers prefer higher rates because of this. I also find trowing the sticks around to the limit easier with thumbs. (For context too, I am using extended sticks and pinch the controls)
Thanks for the video guys.
For freestyle I like to have a 180° flip/roll when I kick the stick fully to one side and back. That’s at around 1200° for me. But I just achieve that with super rate(in BF). I like my rates very low/smooth in my stick center. I use below 1(in Bf) which would be just around 250° without super rate.
For racing I use 1.03 RC and 0.66 on the super. 606° per second gives me the right balance of smooth account snappy when I need it
My favourite racing pilot said 450 so 920 to 450.... Bye high rates
Mehul Anand I would drop 100 a week or so
Nah bruh go to 450 then bump from there. Dropping 100 a week and you waisted over a month then still need a few packs to get used to 450 lol
When I was flying I was running 1250 pitch and roll and 1000 yaw. If I ever get back in the air, I'd be interested in dropping to 850ish for a few packs. Might make my flights look less like my quad has epilepsy.
I rarely use full stick deflection, i think that depend on your feeling and habit
Hey rotor riot! I rate this video 😂👍👍👍 nice topic!
I super rate this video
@@DjOlidang 🤣🤣🤣👌👌
Style of freestyle I think affect rates like Steele type stuff compared to drib flowy stuff. Also thumbing and pinching I feel affects rates too. I've gone back and forth from lower and higher and cant seem to find the middle ground that I actually like.
Here are 4 config of rates that all are at 667 deg/sec at full stick, but TOTALLY different "in the middle". That demonstrate that "full stick" information does not represent the "global" sensibility :
Rate 1 ; Super 0,7 ; Expo 0 = 47 deg/s at 1600 ; 111 deg/s at 1700 ; 667 deg/s at 2000
Rate 2 ; Super 0,4 ; Expo 0 = 87 deg/s at 1600 ; 190 deg/s at 1700 ; 667 deg/s at 2000
Rate 0,7 ; Super 0,79 ; Expo 0,5 = 15 deg/s at 1600 ; 36 deg/s at 1700 ; 667 deg/s at 2000
Details here :
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-6cyl0YVOvHhW2Qh7BW016jJcsB8NCuDEwEOaTnUH44/edit#gid=1499834563