Setting Rates! with Alex Vanover and Joshua Bardwell
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2019
- Alex and Joshua discuss how they set their rates for FPV freestyle and racing. Are your rates too low? Or maybe too high? Sometimes Alex changes his rates for different race courses....
Rates directly define how the drone reacts to stick input so setting your rates correctly is one of the most important things to configure!
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-Pilots / Hosts
Joshua Bardwell [Knowitall]
/ joshuabardwell
Alex Vanover [CaptainVanover]
/ @captainvanover
Production Team
Chad Kapper - Executive Producer
Christian Kapper - Editor
www.rotorriot.com 
Развлечения
WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE
Been flying at 1000 degrees / sec with significant Expo and thought that was ok, until I saw this video and thought I give it a try. And yes I never used full travel unless these useless crazy flips, but now with 710 degrees / sec I suddenly fly a lot more peaceful, a lot smoother and a lot more accurate ... 3 laps around the house without crashing ;-)
THANKS, I did learn something today!!!
Haha i flew with high rates for years and the vid's were always shaky and jumpy.. cut my rates in half and now i fly smoothly.. much better videos, looks like im in control !
I'm right around 1000, but you guys convinced me to drop them some. I'd really like to see a part 2 look at super rate, expo, etc and how to balance all those.
yeah me to 👍
Try this docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-6cyl0YVOvHhW2Qh7BW016jJcsB8NCuDEwEOaTnUH44/edit?usp=drivesdk
Yeaaa but what combination should we use with RC and Super rates?
Happy to see RR address this. In the past year, educating and working with other pilots on finding THEIR rates has been my biggest topic. So many people blindly follow what they see other pilots doing (Steele, for instance), but lack the ability to maintain proper control at these rates. Likewise, they have a tendency to focus on the motions at the end of the sticks while forgetting that MOST OF THE TIME you are living in the mid sticks, not the ends. Great video!
This video was great and very helpful! Another thing that would be incredibly helpful to discuss is how rates/super/expo should be relative to each other, for both racing and freestyle. It would be fantastic if you could do a part 2 about that. Thanks for the great information!
Awesome video lads.
I'd love it if you made a part 2 of this video and explained each rate and what it does to achieve a desired effect for racing and freestyle.
Hope you you get to see this. Thanks again fellas.
I lowered my rates to 100., flys great., just like a DJI haha :p
lol your comment and your thumbnail picture are precise.
Fuck yeah lol
I'm going to do that too. I'm a newbie, I hate my mantis 85, because I can't seem to get used to it. I was told to learn on Acro, but it's just too difficult
@@dame5014 Get a sim. It's how I learned before flying my quad
@@upplsuckimcool16 lmfao I’m dead bro!! 😂😂😂😂
Great info! I'm just getting into the hobby and haven't done to much adjusting pids or rates or really anything on the software side but I'm slowing getting a solid understanding of it all because of videos like this. Thanks guys!
750° on pitch and roll and 650° on yaw is where I’ve settled on for now.
Good video guys, really helpful information.
Thanks for all the info you guys put out. It does really help. I've been searching for the right rates up and down. I was really high at 1st then went really low and did'nt like that. So been around 1000 for a while. After watching I went to liftoff and dropped down to 700 and I think it does feel like I can fly more precise and smoother. I haven't tried in real life yet because of weather....but I will soon. Thanks again and happy flying.
Love the vids, been watching you guys for a while. your the reason i in to fpv
This is a helpful episode I can't wait for the tips of Alex vanover on racing
I have been running Shaun Taylor's rates for 2 years now. Great explanation of why rates matter so much. Thank you for sharing the best tip to the core of flying FPV
Heh, I bought a quad off of him, forgot to change rates. Yeah, same effect. Absolute wholesale change, within 24 hours I had moved the rates on every quad I owned (settled on 500/500/260 for now)
Well this was a great refreshing quad learning day:) I spent 8 paks after adjusting my quads rates from Mr.Steeles rates that I had been using for about 2 years. I set up the left potentiometer on my qx7 to 3 separate rates, 1st @ 900, 2nd @ 800, and 3rd @ 700. I also tried 500, and 400. I really liked the 700/800 rates, the quad was sooo much more controllable and flight was what seemed to be really smooth and much more precise. I’ve been flying for about 2.5 yrs and I fly 5” aliens and 4.5” alien in betaflight, and 1 Kiss v1 Reverb. Thank you guys sooo much for this topic I would’ve never tried this before this post.
ok, I trust you guys, am lowering my rates, now that I actually feel I know what that means. Thanks again and again, I have been silent for years but feeling welcomed by the fpv community, I feel like you guys are family. Thanks Josh and Alex, and shoutout to flyhighdudes for bringing it to my attention. I hope y'all stay safe, happy flying🚀
So good thanks guy for sitting down and just going over a subject in detail
I think more people needed to hear this than they want to hear. It’s easier to learn lower rates then bump up as you need
Thanks guys as a new pilot this helped me out a lot 🙏
Awesome topic! I am stoked you talked about racing rates. About a year ago I dropped into the 200 range and have been working it up. I am currently in the 350isg pitch and roll and 370ish yaw and planned on bumping it up!
Excellent way of explaining rates. I understand it so much better now.
So glad u did this vid. Something that's always been on my mind. I'm ok at freestyle but suk at racing. Flown quads now for about two years. Thanku. Il give it a try
I went from 1100˚sec to 800˚sec 3 months ago, it really helped me improve.. After watching this I feel like I should at least lower rates for yaw/pitch. Thanks a lot, I hope to see more videos like this! Idk about others but I struggle w/setup, don't get much time to fly and just want things to work..
Thanks for the video guys.
Thank you for the Help :) 👌🏼✌🏼👍🏼
That is really interesting and helpful. Thank you!
Thanks guys super good info here!
Now i undestand the rates, thanks Joshua
Thank you! Great info!
Plus I had never used the Rate Profile tab, or the Adjustments tab in betaflight:) I definitely learned something today setting up a potentiometer to (3) different rate profiles that I can switch to in flight along with the corresponding rate number in my OSD so I can see which rate profile I’m in while in the air! Thanks Again Dudes!!
Over 1200°/sec here and I love it.
But I'll give this a try.
Great video. Had me playing in the sims all night pondering flight patterns. Rate/800, Super/800, Expo/-400 which flattens the mid for better resolution and kicks the deflections up to a fast flick. Can't wait to get out in the morning and see how they translate.
I've always used the same rates for all three axes. Now I can't wait to try to both lower my rates, and use different rates depending on the axis! I've heard several people now, say that yaw can actually be pretty low, followed by pitch and having the roll axis as the quickest.
Thanks Alex and Joshua - I learnt something today
It was a total game-changer. Dialed my rates back to around 400 on pitch and roll, and down to 300 on yaw, and the precision is out of this world! My quad's handling has gone through the roof, and I'm smoothly slicing through my old records. Upping the expo to 0.70 added buttery movements - it's all about that silky, precise control now. Totally in love with the flight feel! ✈🎮
Josh & Alex have great on screen cemastry together.. hope to see more dueits ..
very good subject video very interesting too. I'll have to try the profiles and switch to try.
play well joshua and alex ✌️
I learnt something today. Thanks guys
I watched this. Did what you said....BAM! world of difference. Thank you.
bryan maynard did you apply lower rate to rc rate or super rate or both? Trying to figure out what they meant as rate sounded like super rates
First I jumped on the sim and just lowered my rates WAY down. I saw the positive difference immediately so I jumped to a quad. Lowered the rates down and left my rc rate and super rate what may be considered just a touch high. I instantly had way more of a locked on and smooth feeling for flight and while I don’t have Mr Steele snaps happening I do have a much more controllable quad.
very good video thank you!
Good discussion guys. Lowered mine from 1000 to 800 and I think I like it! Feels smoother with better precision in gaps, but then again I've been flying about 8 months so still got my training wheels on :)
Ace video, Thanks Gents
Thanks guys loved the video. I will go out and mess with my rates and see how it goes. It's something I normally do not touch.
That helped me out alot, ty!
Thanks for this one, guys. Still missing one thing again, as always when it comes to rates: The super rate and expo. Setting up a decent super rate can personalize the stick feel extremely, soften the curve just as u like, whereas the wrong (mainly too high) expo is making the ways of deflection feel like a minefield..
I use a minimal expo for the exact middle and very small control on tight areas. And super rates at about 1.70, soften a bit but not too much.
Still I will try lower my 1100° / sec. and look once more what happens. Growing skills make the super rate less useful.
Sry for the ramble attack xD
I lol'd when Alex just looked at the cam with displeasure on 300° per sec. Tell em how it is young one
Thanks this was really helpful
This was an awesome discussion! I have my rates on a switch. Y’all convinced me to try even lower rates. Currently at 800. Going to try 600 and 400 on my switch. Thanks!
How you put the rates on a switch?
Very timely!!!
When I started flying I used high rates and got used to it. I liked the double snap rolls and stuff, but once I lowered them I never went back! Low rates help you smooth out your flying A LOT!
Awsome , this really gives me something to think about , and work on .
Again awsome video. thanks . very informative
Very helpful. Thanks!
1018 degrees here for 3 years ,been trying to knock my expo down a little bit from 30% to 25% recently to get more centre stick sensitivity and feel a bit more linear
Cool tip with the stick travel end, but imo there are further very important things to be added here to get the whole picture of setting up rates - that's for example pinching vs. thumb drive, controller type/size in conjunction with hand size & adjustable sticks (height, input resistance, spring back or spring load) - in my experience when I have started as a thumb guy I had much lower rates because I think I wasn't able to pricisely control higher numbers. The other side was that I was however able to use the whole stick travel in my Taranis Q X7, so the lower numbers were more suitable for me at that time. Then I have reached a point in which I realised I want to be able to make quicker turns but not have to give up precision. I decided to force myself to pinching. At the beginning it was strange for me even looking at someone pinching. It seemed to me pinching not to be natural, because I came from Playstation & Xbox into FPV as most of us do, I think... I took me a week to get used to and BOY it made a difference ! I was easily able to manage +300-400deg./sec. and fly tighter the line. For me having two points of support is far better than only one which is shaky. I know it's a personal thing, it's not for everybody's taste, but for me it definately helped to progress. Talking personal I want to point out the second thing , which is controller type/size to hand size - I think it makes a huge difference having a correct chosen controller to your hand size (general palm size and finger lenght). I have however noticed that even having better overall experience by pinching (higher rates + better precision) my Taranis Q X7 is somehow handicapping my resolution. I have noticed that I am not able to reach the end of yaw right and roll left because the Q X7 is quite wide for my hands. I am therefore looking to step over to X9D which is narrower, to get the finger reach back. The adjustable sticks mentioned at the beginning are the best upgrade you can do to your rig. They provide you really with the last step of fine tuning your input. All the above comes down to setting up the rates in the end. It's a personal thing like a proper bikefitting is for a rider on a bicycle, it's a wrong way to take for example Mr. Steele's rates, because they are his personal "Taylor made like" numbers. It's also not properly to assume that racing pilots normally fly 400-600deg./sec. and for acro 800 to +1000deg./sec., it's personal like PID's are for a Quad. It should be set very low at the start and worked up in small increments as a pilot progresses. Phew... just a couple of additional words on that topic... Cheers!
Maybe I’ll actually play with my rates and stuff now! Awesome video, guys!
Lots to think about! I’ve always just ran defaults (except when Jon tuned my Nova)
@@LittleStellarFox oops I edited my comment with all my rates (I had a slight mistake that I fixed) in case you took a screenshot.....
Thanks guys. Great video. I’ll try. Been flying 1100 -1000
This is useful. I got used to the Emax bhr stock rates (900 d/s) and applied them to all my quads; I’ll rethink them.
I've lowered my rates down to low 700's over time. I once had 1k,1k,1k like stingy. But I'm used to my lower rates and feel like I have more precise control.
Good tip JB and Vanover!
It's like mouse sensivity. Fly with what you feel comfortable. I just fly default rates. They work perfect for me.
I always played black ops with max sensitivity and pwnd...
Why change that strategy now?
Excellent video, don't know how I missed it.
Interesting topic! I am experienting with Rates on VelociDrone since wild Willys video
Very Good!!! Thanks a lot!!!
OMG Thanks so much, not sure what I started with but learned a little about Rates so I lowered mine a bit which helped but felt like lower more would be too much and I was sat about 600 ish, lowered to 400 feel like 10 times better pilot already after only 20 mins.
It would be interesting to see a video about how you should progress your rates as you're learning to fly. I wonder if that would impact how fast you learn.
Being a borderline new/intermediate heli pilot, I find that even though my nano helis are naturally very twichy, I like to keep the rates high to force myself to work on being smoother. I know I will push myself harder and learn quicker. If I can do anything with one of those halfway decent, I know I can make a bigger heli look pretty good.
Yup started with 1200 deg/s and dropped to 780 deg/s about 6 months ago. This video confirms what I thought. 👍
I used to run 1100 deg/sec but, after watching Alex fly at quad camp and talking to him about it, I reduced my rates to 800, because I realized it made my flying a lot smoother and my flips and rolls were just as snappy.
Nice video, but how the heck can you talk about rates and having too little resolution in the middle without talking about expo?!?!
I know!!! The whole time I was waiting for them to start talking about expo. Im so tired of people only focusing on Max roll rate. Max roll rate is only a small part of the equation.
i know, im running high rates with a far bit of expo to return fine control to the middle.
Yeah they seemed to equate both into one.
I actually don't think JB likes Alex and I think he knows it and in turn doesn't really care for him either. So it was more of a quick discussion on the absolute basics.
@@streetzfpv 300 degrees per second is 300 degrees per second. The weight of the quad doesn't matter. Now if your gear can even get that rate is a completely different thing and setting your rates higher changes nothing.
@@streetzfpv I think you're confusing PIDs with rates here. A properly tuned quad with enough power will turn at 300dps if that's what your rate is, that's the whole point of having a PID controller. Different weights on your quad will cause different flight characteristics but it's down to available power and the PIDs, not your rate settings.
Nice content I love it.
Thanks for all your work! Would adjusting RC rates in beta flight achieve the same effect?
I found a good rule of thumb for freestyle was to tune your rates so that a full stick flick would result in 180° rotation on that axis for pitch and roll. Yaw, I tuned a little less based on feel
Have to agree with playing with rates. I just finished an Arc-1 build and wound up and lowered my race rates a bit and I immediately noticed a difference. My freestyle rates I started lowering a couple months ago and I think I’m around 850 right now. So much more control.
just waiting for the Zoroe chat show edit! with canned applause and stuff!
Got mine sorted out in flight simulator:) Few more tweaks in real life and I'm right on the spot.
Good video 👍
Hey rotor riot! I rate this video 😂👍👍👍 nice topic!
I super rate this video
@@DjOlidang 🤣🤣🤣👌👌
I’m off tomorrow from work and currently/ironically I’ve been running Steele’s rates for like 1.5yrs, but will try setting p,&r to 700, and y at 600 and give 5 packs a go:)
And, what you say after these 5 packs?
I'd just hit the like button after Alex demonstrate how "snap flip floppy" is.
I was running homologous rates across my fleet thinking it would help me but I am inspired to lower my rates for racing and keep them high ish for freestyle now. Thanks
Thanks guys I'm going to change my rates!
You guys should do more of this video style. With different people on the crew, like one of you gets a topic and you interview/ convo on it for 10 minutes. would be a good way to generate relevant content. even though its not flashy. you could also do one like Versus. , where you have a mediator get comparitive/contrasting opinions from two pilots.
completely agree with it, myself 650 degree, but with a super rate enabled (no expo), so center is less agrassive than stick ends. Also I increase resolution on the throttle, by setting a curve. The first15% part of throttle stick can be steep, it just used to get quad to hover, than a nice expo curve were more throttle resolution in slower flying speeds.
its evident that these guys are content to cruise around without doing very many technical maneuvers
That's my boy Hector!
I have recently upped my rates to 940 on pitch and roll. I feel less confident with these changes.
My rates was in the high 700's before. I am getting more used to it now, but it still makes the flying less comfortable and fun.
But i though most good pilots ran higher rates. So i was thinking i might as well keep on practicing with higher rates than i am comfortable with.
I think i will turn back the dial a bit after watching this.
Something nobody talks about.....take all the super rate out for racing. Super rate is a very unpredictable spike in the rates through the overall stick travel. 1.9 on RC rates and .30 on all expos. That’s it.
Yes, thats a good topic for a part-2 of this interresting talk. Some words about "elbow-rates" and what the experts use for expo and/or superrate.
Alex and Joshua touched on something that i think is over looked and that is those super fast flippies rolls etc. Those move suck to watch. They really do. It's my opinion. But if the entire sport was the super quick flippies I would have loaded another you tube page and moved on to another sport. But watching smooth precise moves makes you feel like you are on board. That's what hooks us into this great sport. thats why I enjoy LeDrib so much he has flow. And that is fun to watch. When you watch racers at the pro level they are just flipping through gates at mach chicken it's cool for few minutes but after some time you cant even tell if they made the gates. I super respect what they do and of course this is what is needed to win. But to watch super tight gates not as much fun as nice flow. Now DRL is fun to watch. Thanks for great videos. Your both super pilots and i do enjoy watching you fellows fly and teach me more every day. Thank you
It's like you read my mind, was wondering with Alexs' race experience if this subject would be touched upon 👍🏼😘
Could you possibly cover expo? Flew a buddies quad the other day and didn't realise how linear his stick movement was. I was terrified flying it 😄
Usually like my yaw about 2/3rds of my pitch and roll. Sitting at 1250 pitch and roll and 950 yaw but I think my precision could use work. Gonna try this.
Custom Taranis curves can make you look like a superhero. I keep my roll and pitch rates at 1200, but it doesn’t happen until the last outer 5% of stick deflection. My quads fly like 700s until the stick hits the plastic. Tons of resolution and predictability, but also the ability to snap a roll/pitch 180 with a quick tap.
I agree with this video. I started off flying over 1000 degrees because I figured that's how we're meant to fly, and my current rates are still about 900 with a tonne of expo as I'm a thumber and I find I can't fly smoothly and I'm not really progressing any better.
I recently tested Vanover, JB and LeDribs rates in Liftoff (there rates are on the Rotor Riot product page if anyone wants them). I found JBs rates nearly unflyable as he's over 1000 degrees on Yaw, but I found both LeDribs and Vanovers rates far better than my standard rates. I love the super slow rates that Vanover uses even though I didn't think I would. They gave me much more confidence to perform tricks and fly generally smoother and better. I also found LeDribs quite familiar feeling as I fly with different rates on all axis with my usual rates just like him, but I think think a mix of his separate rates per axis and Vanovers slower rates will be the ultimate rates for me.
Honestly, if you haven't flown anything other than high rates then give this a try. I'm going to be putting lower rates on all my quadcopters
@Joshua: I am using Betaflight to find my rates. I find it very odd no one has ever mentioned that BF is actually showing the maneuvers exactly on the PID review screen if you connect your radio. I spent hours dialing in the muscle memory by using this method. I started off by finding out my comfy full end stick speed then I changed my numbers accordingly to finish on a half roll every time (for normal flying - most recently Vortex has suggested the same while coaching Chad) or to finish the exact same move with a full roll - for fast acro. I then set the two sets of rates and change it in OSD when needed.
Inspiration ! great video guys ! give someone a reason to try something new.
920 with expo so i keep it pretty locked in smooth when lower down but the snap is there if need be. Came from 800/800/700 on betaflight to FlightOne and left that around default to get the higher rates, but love it. I will be dropping it back down slowly though as the full deflection moves dont sit too well at this rate with hypersmooth LOL
Hey guys, great video. Can you explain why most pilots set their rates in betaflight vs. on the transmitter? Is it just an issue of software features and convenience?
What a huuge difference that made! My sweet spot is 450 degrees/sec for super smooth flying.
Hi Joshua! I really like your channel due to the fact, that you explain with derail! In this video I'm missing quite a lot of information! Like expo and super-rates! When to use them right.... how much is too much expo? The maximum Rate is not telling me enough...would it be possibpe to go deeper in these subjects? Thanks!
Great episode! But what about expo? Doesn't it all smooth out?
As I've always said it's not your max dps, its how you get there.
Which is why I wish the developers would give use more options on where the break point of the expo curve is.
Also I'm glad not everyone has low syrupy rates sometime when watching I actually start to daybreak or fall asleep...lol
so basic and yet so important ,,,this means that I am far too high for the way I actually want to fly 😄
Thanks guys ..😉
Use to be high rates but was too jittery and just couldn't accurately go where I wanted, knocked them down to 566P/566R/500Y, been flying those ever since👍
I rarely use full stick deflection, i think that depend on your feeling and habit