Bc its something new and exciting that he probably doesnt get to do these type of videos much anymore bc of all the new stuff out to review thats all kind of relatively same anyway..
As with anything in the hobby world, FPV is constantly evolving. I'm excited to see where this world of 8S will be in a year. I feel like it has a possible future. For me, when I chase drift cars or something like a jet ski, this could be helpful! That punch could be very helpful in a situation where you may have gone a little too wide on a turn or something like that!
You should try an 8S 7" build. Using 2x 4S batteries would solve two problems: - Availability of 8S batteries - The regulator (Just connect the low voltage components to a single battery) I believe a higher voltage allows the magnetic field to change quicker, this applies to stepper motors used for CNC machines. in terms of reliability, it's worth noting that MOSFETs have quite a strict safe operating area in their datasheets so getting that peak current down is a very good thing.
I don't think it's a good idea. Drawing more power from one half of the battery than the other. My most recent build is a 9-in 8S and I'm using 2 4s. You won't know how much is left in each battery because your OSD only tells you the sum of both so you could possibly kill one half the battery without realizing it
@@TheDeltatangowhiskey It does make sense and you raise a fair point, although I'd counter that having a single battery is only a marginal improvement to the issue. Having a single battery ensures that the cells are all the same age, are (Usually) produced within the same batch and have the same usage pattern. When using two separate packs (Or 8x 1S packs for that matter), as long as the packs are in the same condition they should be close enough. You could always have the situation where one cell ages differently, for example where one cell is always close to the hot VTX. A better solution is to have individual cell monitoring. You could use the FrSky FLVS ADV which monitors 8 individual cells and can communicate via either the FBUS or S.Port, although I'm not sure if any FC supports this.
As a dilettante whose flight time is mostly on a 130mm wheelbase quad and who hasn't made the transition from line of sight to FPV yet, it's always reassuring to me when you clip a tree or have some other oopsie, and put it in a video. Notwithstanding your enormous contribution to multirotors generally (I still tell people to go and watch your long interview with Randy from SRA Solder) seeing someone with your experience and skill calmly accept that crashing is just fine and part of the game gives me the reassurance to keep repairing and flying. And maybe move to cheap FPV sometime soon. Thanks Joshua!
I own 8s quad for about 2 years, but i use 2x4s lipo. 2507 motors 1500kv, and b-iblade apc 6x6 props., on mutch lighter build. Max speed is about 240km/h on gps.
@@tlj4999 Frame is falcon multurotors solleva build without those printed parts, esc is iflight 8s x80a single esc'a mountet verticaly od arm. And i menaged to fit there full air unit :)
Just because of your great videos next week I'll finally make my dream of flying FPV will become a reality! Until now, it was more like a wish, and seems impossible to get the basics and find the right path in this huge world. Thanks to you it is no longer the case! I love the detailed explanation section of correlation between power, voltage, and performance on lower kvs! Ton of knowledge w/o making an ad of yourself for every piece of equipment that you present. Keep going!
I started about nine months ago. The learning curve is steep, at the beginning, but once you get going, it seems a lot easier. (hindsight is everything, I suppose) Welcome to the hobby, I love hearing people joining in on the fun.
Crazy idea, we move back to the 4 individual escs that were mounted on the arms. First of all, when things explode, you have to pay to replace 1 esc instead of 4 each time. 2 when things explode the fire is not roasting your fc like a pot roast. (I had an esc spontaneously combust midair, which left char on the fc, vtx, battery, and burned through the battery strap.) and 3, it gives manufactures more room to put beefier components on the esc due to not crowding 4 together. Finally, you get extra room under your fc for voltage regulators, pdbs, and anything else your heart desires.
HGLRC Zeus Pro 50A is an 8S ESC under $60 bucks. Foxeer Reaper F4 ESCs can also run on 8S, just a tad more expensive than the HGLRC one but still under 80$ which means you don't really have to spend a ton of money on an 8S ESC'. Don’t forget that an 8S 1300mAh pack is equivalent to a 6S 1800mAh pack which is also equivalent to a 4S 2600mAh pack. It’s not just the voltage, but the whole capacity of the pack is also bigger which will obviously increase flight time and be able to deliver more power which people might find “more efficient” but so many factors are being left behind and being ignored.
I love this idea. Down the road build I can see. I just got into 2506 1850 5in 6s, and it just seemed to make all my 2207s null and void. Love the power, long flights, and no bottom feel. Pulls easily out of any power loop. Makes freestyle effortless. I think this is what 8s can do, and more.
This makes sense. As we increase the weight of our quads with more electronics/heavier cameras. We need more rpms/thrust for the pid controller to have full authority. As someone who flies 107, my 5" quad is just shy of 900G. Full air unit, GPS, RID, extra receiver, gopro full, and arm struts. It definitely flies heavy but for filming its pretty strong. I would love to have this setup with a 8s powertrain for bigger maneuvers for sure.
I am about to begin my 5th quadcopter build. It's a 10" frame, and I was calculating for a 6S battery, because I'm used to thinking in 22-volts. But after watching this, I realize that I should be going with 8S for this one. It's going to be a payload platform, for cameras & servos & gimbal motors. 8S makes sense, 6S just seems like an oversight for this build. Glad I watched this video, before I started buying electronics for it.
@@hateforall4012 It's gonna be fun, for sure. I imagine it'll take me all winter, and most of early next season, to finish it. Heck, just building it is probably going to as much fun as flying it. This is where I'll let my creativity run free!
Bardwell is the Elvis of the FPV world but he won't die he's immortal Bardwell for president.. And I always learn a ton on this channel especially the part about kv and motor talk really opened my eyes to what I'm really dealing with much appreciated fellas
Amperage, that's why higher voltage is better. Wattage is measured by voltage times amperage. So the more voltage you have, the less amperage you need to make the same amount of power. That's why you can run more RPM on higher voltage, you're pulling less amperage to do the same amount of "work" or wattage in this case as you were on lower voltage letting you load the system harder to reach the same levels of load you would see on lower voltages. It's the same reason you likely have 110v and 220v running through your house. To keep the amperage at safe levels to produce more power for high current appliances such as clothes dryers, stoves and furnaces.
About 9 years ago, when I was like 15, I set out to test some stuff with some spare motors from a broken plane, I had a Rimfire 370 which is about the size of a 5 inch prop quad motor (28-26-1000KV), I wired it to a large 75A 8S ESC set out to test larger and larger props with different batteries. The motor was rated for 3S. At one point I put a 15 inch glow engine prop on it, which was brutally oversized. I tried with 2s (since it should spin slowly enough not to blow up) and the motor would just kind of stall and jitter at the start and barely spun up after that. Not yet bored of my contraption, I decided to try 5s. To my surprise, the motor spun up with barely any throttle input and pushed that thing to over 10K RPM with a 3 second punch, producing way more thrust that some larger motors I had. (lets not talk about the smell afterwards). It was at that moment that I realized that voltage not only controls the maximum RPM of a motor, but it clearly has a direct relation to the torque. In more real world scenarios, this could often mean that a higher voltage will simply give the motors a more wide torque band, even if the ESC is limiting the timing(?) in order to keep the power within limits.
A couple of points to add. Higher voltage MOSFETs have a higher RDSon so their losses are slightly higher, this is more than compensated by the lower current though. If you want to double the motor kv then surely you use the same gauge of wire and the same number of turns but arranged as two windings in parallel. This avoids difficulty in winding and losing fill ratio. Thinner windings are more efficient than thicker ones due to the skin effect. This is more important as the frequency rises. No doubt that higher voltage and lower current is beneficial though.
Loved this video. Great to hear from Chris Rosser as well. 1500kv on 8s is equal to 2000 kv on 6S. Vanovers motor is 2021kv on 6S. It would be interesting to compare the two since the 6s build should be lighter and cheaper.
Coming from an electrical background, how I see the benefits of higher voltage is that with higher voltage and same power you'll have lower current. And it's current that usually burns stuff. So this of crouse means that with the same current you'll get more power. Higher voltages to bring some new issues, I already hate the zap 6S gives when connecting it.
XT90 anti spark connectors but in XT60 (not sure amass makes them in XT60 though) I use the XT90 anti sparks in all my cinelifters. Cheap and work great. (They have the green part on the outside of the yellow XT body that designates anti spark)
You do an excellent job, explaining and demonstrating. I love the entire RUclips FPV community. I know you’re all making a living at this, but you’re also providing so much education for everyone.
There are flight controllers that allow 8S input so you wouldn't need a voltage regulator. Holybro Kakute H7 V2 for example. Rx, GPS and VTX would be powered off the FC BECs
Love hearing that 8s and see the air performance of it. Coming out of the ground vehicles coming into the fpv drones, I have 2 ground vehicles and 1 boat that runs 8s. Typically we use 2 - 4s lipos in series to get to 8s. Market is kind if low for 8s batteries. I think mostly because there is much fewer chargers that can charge at 8s verses what's out on the market for 6s chargers. Because of that, I can see alot of folks resorting to running 2 - 4s lipos in series with this drone verses shelling out for a 8s batteries.
The fun thing with this hobby is how we go back to stuff because of better gear and parts. Like back to trying different celled lipos because the motors are better, or 3 blade because the drone got lighter ecc.
Thanks for making videos like this. It'll be a very long time before I can build anything even close to this, but you've got a great way of showing off this awesome quad and going over all the details, while still having loads of fun.
Higher voltage reduces the current and lower power loss so I would expect the MOSFETs to have less failures and run more efficiently. Keep in mind brushless DC motors are actually AC motors and the ESC outputs AC. They are functionally identical to 3 phase high voltage industrial motors that use a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). The first step in a VFD is to rectify the AC to DC, then invert the DC to AC. The quad ESC does exactly the same thing except it starts with DC so it doesn't need the rectification step.
Is that the H743-Mini ? I just finished soldering up to an ESC. I have not plugged it into Betaflight or BL-Heli yet. Looking forward to it, but wondering if anyone has any reports on its performance yet?
9 months later, Tattu has a 1050mah 8S 5.0 batterie now, GNB has a LiHv 1100mah. RCinpower has 2207 1600kv GTSv4. I've still not blown a Foxeer 8S FC or ESC with internal voltage reg. My AUW is 610g. Lowest D gain I've ever needed on a quad, which in turn means I can get away with less filtering.
Hi Joshua, do racers use microphones (listen to their props) on their drones while racing? If so, how do they do it with digital systems like the DJI? Thanks
Could i use my old 4S packs in tandem for that ? maybe even run power for everything else only from one pack ? the reason i havent switched to 6S is the huge chunk of money i sunk into 4S packs....
I just watched Westpsyde build a DeWalt drone using a 5ah 20v ..10s battery. Im not affiliated or sponsored by any one hell i have learned everything from watching you on your channel, im trying to get into fpv; my question is does more cells more amperage= more power or is all this just for show?. I watched you an buddy fly an 8s now your 8s build. All while waiting on my first radio to try out the simulator so i can learn ...by the way thanks for all your videos on beginners fpv drones. Thanks to you i believe i now know enough to start an the type of drone to start with
As seen in the example of the motors with the difficulty of winding the wire. You can not arbitrarily go up with the voltage. It goes but the hardware costs explode... So there is a sweet spot/optimum between hardware costs and voltage level... Due to modern manufacturing processes and mass production this can of course shift upwards... But even there the possibilities are exhausted at some point...
isn‘t there more current with higher voltage in the motor wires, because higher voltage is pushing more current, but the mosfet opening time is shorter for the same power. and higher current means more losses.
This brings up a problem that I have when I switched from 4S to 6S. I started getting glitches. Black box showed a motor doing a short term power at 0. So I changed the ESC and motor on that one. It still glitches and Black box shows first one motor and then another one doing the same thing. I've since changed the FC, the RX and added a capacitor. I tried it with a 4S battery and no problems other than it needed a lot more throttle as you would expect. I'm sorry for the long post, but I'm at a loss.
There's also the voltage sag... As 8S batteries would need to deliver half the current, the voltage sag due to load should be a lot lower, contributing to deliver a consistant performance.
11:15 he says that "with less copper we get more resistance". That is not true, resistance formula is R = ρ (L / A) where is ρ - constant for copper, and L is length and A is cross-section area. So when we HALVE number of wraps, our new L' = L/2 and L' in numerator, so two time less numerator 2 time less overall resistance. So if we double cross section then overall resistance will be 4 time less, and he say exactly this later, so this phrase about "less copper get more resistance" is even more strange.
Some "scientific" tests where Flight time and Hover time is compared to 6s would ve been really interesting. How is the Voltage sag compared to 6s? what kv do you need to make at least as punchy as 6s is? People flew 1500mah and more on 4s, but only 1050 to 1400 on 6s, would it make sense to use a lower capacity on 8s for the same Watts?
Josh have you considered wrapping parts of that telephone/ power line with yellow foam tubing? Like the ones you see on dirt bike handle bars? I know you know it’s there, but that would make it visually targetable
would you test it with lower amount mAh? if we increase voltage, we can decrease mAh and get the same amount of Wh and the weight, that pretty close to 6s
Bets on when 10s or 12s ESCs will be the thing? I think holybros been selling a very compact VESC which will handle 12s with no problem. If you never heard of VESC you need to check it out. For freestyle quads it’s probably not optimal but for larger quads and any other type of BLDC its absolutely amazing. It has FOC mode ( field oriented control) very smooth control, Increased efficiency, increased torque as well as dead silent commutation.
Nice and super fast.....Is possible to set in betaflight / battery sensor 8S count Cell and amp/voltage for OSD? Because betaflight has 25.5 volt limit! Thanks
What's the difference between something like this and what Nurk FPV did with his 12s quad? I'm asking performance wise and such. I know his build was a little more complicated.
Foxeer Reaper F4 128K 65A 4in1 ESC and T-Motor F7 PRO FC can both take 3-8S. I use this combo on a 8S 7Inch Rig. So you don't need a voltage regulator. Is the combination cheaper than one? Probably not.
It would be interesting to know where the motor's permanent magnet limits are. From a certain point, a stronger effect between the electro and the permanent magnet is not possible, and at some point the magnet has to demagnetize..
the difference between 8s and 6s on the ground with wheels is actually insane. its a whole other level, i could imagine drones would be the same, but would take a bit to work out the bugs and the motor brake. volt up gear down is the saying in our 4x4 world.
We're talking about fpv correct? Since when was $27 expensive in regards to building a niche 8s 5"...$27 isn't much in regards to fpv in general for a device you would need to make a rig airworthy, not sure why that particular bit of info grabbed my attention, regardless great vid, very informative, 8s looks like a blast...really glad there are components that make it possible, looking forward to some more options. Cheers!
well hang on now bardwell, so the T-Motor F7 Pro V2 Flight controller is rated 3-8s not 6s so if i have a Flight Controller & ESC Both rated at 8s then there is no need for the regulator correct? And with the F7 Pro V2 being rated 8s i should just be able to plug my vista just straight into the F.C. Should i not? cause ever since i saw yall first flying at rotor riot with 8s i have waited and looked pretty damn hard for different 8s Rated components. & there is alot more then i thought. there is a 30x30 100amp 8s ESC on Banggod that i would totally try but ill need some conformation that im goood to build like that and not have a fire lol let me know please i can give the names of quite a few other components to if you want just to go over and see what all will work with what without the regulator cause i wont have room for the regulator in my 5" GRL Titanium Pro 2 Frame which is deff what ill be building with since it is even more durable then your valdor frame you used. gotta have all the durability i can get since your going twice as fast & crashing twice as hard lol
Does splitting the batteries top and bottom 2 smaller 4s packs help CG? I just realized all my Reaper ESC's are 8s capable... BrainFPV Radix 2HD FC is 8s...
![[PREVIEW]👀 MINI GT/KAIDOHOUSE official booth at 2025 Tokyo Auto Salon.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uQiwmuEBzM4/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Lol. It feels like a light weight racing drone, but it's not. It's 850 grams. ***hits tree and puts a 3 foot crater in the yard***
😂😂
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
My drone with 8 motors is only 70 grams more
Loved the enthusiasm when you punched it and the collaboration with Rosser was really well done. Awesome video 🤟
I just want to say this is my favorite video in a while. It felt like old school Bardwell and I don't know how to explain it
Bc its something new and exciting that he probably doesnt get to do these type of videos much anymore bc of all the new stuff out to review thats all kind of relatively same anyway..
Yup
We are so lucky Chris Rosser stumbled into the hobby. What an encyclopedia.
Also JB, of course 😘
As with anything in the hobby world, FPV is constantly evolving. I'm excited to see where this world of 8S will be in a year. I feel like it has a possible future. For me, when I chase drift cars or something like a jet ski, this could be helpful! That punch could be very helpful in a situation where you may have gone a little too wide on a turn or something like that!
I really hope it takes off but it’s been a year…
I love to see colabs in the FPV community, this should be a more regular occurrence lol. Great content Bardwell. Cheers 🍻
In case you're interested in more info on KV I did a whole video on it: ruclips.net/video/uvyi6hPIt8w/видео.html
Gr8! I never changed from 4 to 6s. now I'll simply connect them two 4s batteries and have 8s well done today!
You should try an 8S 7" build.
Using 2x 4S batteries would solve two problems:
- Availability of 8S batteries
- The regulator (Just connect the low voltage components to a single battery)
I believe a higher voltage allows the magnetic field to change quicker, this applies to stepper motors used for CNC machines.
in terms of reliability, it's worth noting that MOSFETs have quite a strict safe operating area in their datasheets so getting that peak current down is a very good thing.
I don't think it's a good idea. Drawing more power from one half of the battery than the other. My most recent build is a 9-in 8S and I'm using 2 4s. You won't know how much is left in each battery because your OSD only tells you the sum of both so you could possibly kill one half the battery without realizing it
I hope that made sense lol
@@TheDeltatangowhiskey It does make sense and you raise a fair point, although I'd counter that having a single battery is only a marginal improvement to the issue.
Having a single battery ensures that the cells are all the same age, are (Usually) produced within the same batch and have the same usage pattern. When using two separate packs (Or 8x 1S packs for that matter), as long as the packs are in the same condition they should be close enough. You could always have the situation where one cell ages differently, for example where one cell is always close to the hot VTX.
A better solution is to have individual cell monitoring. You could use the FrSky FLVS ADV which monitors 8 individual cells and can communicate via either the FBUS or S.Port, although I'm not sure if any FC supports this.
I think it is a good idea!
As a dilettante whose flight time is mostly on a 130mm wheelbase quad and who hasn't made the transition from line of sight to FPV yet, it's always reassuring to me when you clip a tree or have some other oopsie, and put it in a video. Notwithstanding your enormous contribution to multirotors generally (I still tell people to go and watch your long interview with Randy from SRA Solder) seeing someone with your experience and skill calmly accept that crashing is just fine and part of the game gives me the reassurance to keep repairing and flying. And maybe move to cheap FPV sometime soon.
Thanks Joshua!
Excellent explanation from Chris! On paper it seems like there should be no difference but now I understand why in reality it's different.
11:25 why not just use multi stranded windings then and get the best of both worlds??
I own 8s quad for about 2 years, but i use 2x4s lipo. 2507 motors 1500kv, and b-iblade apc 6x6 props., on mutch lighter build. Max speed is about 240km/h on gps.
I bet that sounds incredible!
Impressive! Which frame did you use?
@@tlj4999 Frame is falcon multurotors solleva build without those printed parts, esc is iflight 8s x80a single esc'a mountet verticaly od arm. And i menaged to fit there full air unit :)
Glad to see you found a use for the volador😄, it’s such a great frame when you can learn to ignore the weight
Just because of your great videos next week I'll finally make my dream of flying FPV will become a reality! Until now, it was more like a wish, and seems impossible to get the basics and find the right path in this huge world. Thanks to you it is no longer the case!
I love the detailed explanation section of correlation between power, voltage, and performance on lower kvs!
Ton of knowledge w/o making an ad of yourself for every piece of equipment that you present.
Keep going!
I started about nine months ago. The learning curve is steep, at the beginning, but once you get going, it seems a lot easier. (hindsight is everything, I suppose) Welcome to the hobby, I love hearing people joining in on the fun.
Congrats and happy flying. Wish you less broken parts than me 😂
Crazy idea, we move back to the 4 individual escs that were mounted on the arms. First of all, when things explode, you have to pay to replace 1 esc instead of 4 each time. 2 when things explode the fire is not roasting your fc like a pot roast. (I had an esc spontaneously combust midair, which left char on the fc, vtx, battery, and burned through the battery strap.) and 3, it gives manufactures more room to put beefier components on the esc due to not crowding 4 together. Finally, you get extra room under your fc for voltage regulators, pdbs, and anything else your heart desires.
i had no idea 4-in-1 esc’s were so popular now. individual escs on each arm is absolutely the way to go imo.
@@Luka-lm1prare there 8s escs at all
HGLRC Zeus Pro 50A is an 8S ESC under $60 bucks. Foxeer Reaper F4 ESCs can also run on 8S, just a tad more expensive than the HGLRC one but still under 80$ which means you don't really have to spend a ton of money on an 8S ESC'.
Don’t forget that an 8S 1300mAh pack is equivalent to a 6S 1800mAh pack which is also equivalent to a 4S 2600mAh pack. It’s not just the voltage, but the whole capacity of the pack is also bigger which will obviously increase flight time and be able to deliver more power which people might find “more efficient” but so many factors are being left behind and being ignored.
Man Ive been a Bardwell fan for many years now but I must say that intro was more enthusiasm than Ive ever seen before. Good to see the excitement!
I love this idea. Down the road build I can see.
I just got into 2506 1850 5in 6s, and it just seemed to make all my 2207s null and void. Love the power, long flights, and no bottom feel. Pulls easily out of any power loop. Makes freestyle effortless.
I think this is what 8s can do, and more.
This makes sense.
As we increase the weight of our quads with more electronics/heavier cameras. We need more rpms/thrust for the pid controller to have full authority.
As someone who flies 107, my 5" quad is just shy of 900G. Full air unit, GPS, RID, extra receiver, gopro full, and arm struts. It definitely flies heavy but for filming its pretty strong.
I would love to have this setup with a 8s powertrain for bigger maneuvers for sure.
I am about to begin my 5th quadcopter build. It's a 10" frame, and I was calculating for a 6S battery, because I'm used to thinking in 22-volts. But after watching this, I realize that I should be going with 8S for this one. It's going to be a payload platform, for cameras & servos & gimbal motors. 8S makes sense, 6S just seems like an oversight for this build. Glad I watched this video, before I started buying electronics for it.
You spelled 12s wrong! Lmao…. Seriously though your build sounds fun!
@@hateforall4012 It's gonna be fun, for sure. I imagine it'll take me all winter, and most of early next season, to finish it. Heck, just building it is probably going to as much fun as flying it. This is where I'll let my creativity run free!
Foxeer 8s stack has built in regulator, you don't need to add an extra one, so the build could be exactly the same as a 6s one.
That'd be pretty smart. I considered the Foxeer, but T-Motor was quicker to send the gear. Foxeer Reaper are very good ESC.
Bardwell is the Elvis of the FPV world but he won't die he's immortal Bardwell for president.. And I always learn a ton on this channel especially the part about kv and motor talk really opened my eyes to what I'm really dealing with much appreciated fellas
Marius is going to come back and show everyone what 8s can do. 🔥
The DarkSide is gonna come back and 8S 3D on everyone 🤔
@@the_darkside_fpv that would be so rad!
dude that would be insane watching him do eject tricks on 8s
he’s the best !
Amperage, that's why higher voltage is better. Wattage is measured by voltage times amperage. So the more voltage you have, the less amperage you need to make the same amount of power. That's why you can run more RPM on higher voltage, you're pulling less amperage to do the same amount of "work" or wattage in this case as you were on lower voltage letting you load the system harder to reach the same levels of load you would see on lower voltages. It's the same reason you likely have 110v and 220v running through your house. To keep the amperage at safe levels to produce more power for high current appliances such as clothes dryers, stoves and furnaces.
About 9 years ago, when I was like 15, I set out to test some stuff with some spare motors from a broken plane, I had a Rimfire 370 which is about the size of a 5 inch prop quad motor (28-26-1000KV), I wired it to a large 75A 8S ESC set out to test larger and larger props with different batteries. The motor was rated for 3S. At one point I put a 15 inch glow engine prop on it, which was brutally oversized. I tried with 2s (since it should spin slowly enough not to blow up) and the motor would just kind of stall and jitter at the start and barely spun up after that.
Not yet bored of my contraption, I decided to try 5s. To my surprise, the motor spun up with barely any throttle input and pushed that thing to over 10K RPM with a 3 second punch, producing way more thrust that some larger motors I had. (lets not talk about the smell afterwards).
It was at that moment that I realized that voltage not only controls the maximum RPM of a motor, but it clearly has a direct relation to the torque.
In more real world scenarios, this could often mean that a higher voltage will simply give the motors a more wide torque band, even if the ESC is limiting the timing(?) in order to keep the power within limits.
The sound of this quad at full throttle is amazing! Thanks JB!
A couple of points to add. Higher voltage MOSFETs have a higher RDSon so their losses are slightly higher, this is more than compensated by the lower current though.
If you want to double the motor kv then surely you use the same gauge of wire and the same number of turns but arranged as two windings in parallel. This avoids difficulty in winding and losing fill ratio. Thinner windings are more efficient than thicker ones due to the skin effect. This is more important as the frequency rises. No doubt that higher voltage and lower current is beneficial though.
Loved this video. Great to hear from Chris Rosser as well. 1500kv on 8s is equal to 2000 kv on 6S. Vanovers motor is 2021kv on 6S. It would be interesting to compare the two since the 6s build should be lighter and cheaper.
Coming from an electrical background, how I see the benefits of higher voltage is that with higher voltage and same power you'll have lower current. And it's current that usually burns stuff. So this of crouse means that with the same current you'll get more power. Higher voltages to bring some new issues, I already hate the zap 6S gives when connecting it.
Antispark connectors aren’t difficult to find.
@@barthchris1 Those would definitely be recommended for 8S
XT90 anti spark connectors but in XT60 (not sure amass makes them in XT60 though) I use the XT90 anti sparks in all my cinelifters. Cheap and work great. (They have the green part on the outside of the yellow XT body that designates anti spark)
You do an excellent job, explaining and demonstrating. I love the entire RUclips FPV community. I know you’re all making a living at this, but you’re also providing so much education for everyone.
There are flight controllers that allow 8S input so you wouldn't need a voltage regulator. Holybro Kakute H7 V2 for example. Rx, GPS and VTX would be powered off the FC BECs
Love hearing that 8s and see the air performance of it. Coming out of the ground vehicles coming into the fpv drones, I have 2 ground vehicles and 1 boat that runs 8s. Typically we use 2 - 4s lipos in series to get to 8s. Market is kind if low for 8s batteries. I think mostly because there is much fewer chargers that can charge at 8s verses what's out on the market for 6s chargers. Because of that, I can see alot of folks resorting to running 2 - 4s lipos in series with this drone verses shelling out for a 8s batteries.
The fun thing with this hobby is how we go back to stuff because of better gear and parts. Like back to trying different celled lipos because the motors are better, or 3 blade because the drone got lighter ecc.
Thanks for making videos like this. It'll be a very long time before I can build anything even close to this, but you've got a great way of showing off this awesome quad and going over all the details, while still having loads of fun.
Higher voltage reduces the current and lower power loss so I would expect the MOSFETs to have less failures and run more efficiently. Keep in mind brushless DC motors are actually AC motors and the ESC outputs AC. They are functionally identical to 3 phase high voltage industrial motors that use a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). The first step in a VFD is to rectify the AC to DC, then invert the DC to AC. The quad ESC does exactly the same thing except it starts with DC so it doesn't need the rectification step.
I’m still a newbie and thought 4s is right for me, now I’m thinking o should get a 6s drone. Mind you I’m just buying prebuilt and only DJI internals.
last year build a 6s 2400kv motor 5 inch was amazing just like that :) the sound those make give goosebump each time
I fly a number of quads with motors that are 5s capable.
I run them on 6s at 5s kv. You get the best of all worlds.
Brilliant.
Foxeer has an 8S flight controller that also has 2 BECs for 5V and 10V. So technically you can throw the external BEC out
Is that the H743-Mini ? I just finished soldering up to an ESC. I have not plugged it into Betaflight or BL-Heli yet. Looking forward to it, but wondering if anyone has any reports on its performance yet?
@@Inertia888 No that's a Matek FC but, it is also rated for 8s with a 5V and 8V bec and Matek has always been top quality for me.
@@Inertia888 Foxeer has 3 8S rated FCs: the H7 Mini MPU6000, H7 MPU6000 and the F722 V4 MPU6000.
I love the volador vx5. I recently put the speedybee f7 v3 stack with a blheli esc.
I'm gonna build it 12 cell now. Gotta stay ahead of the curve
Maybe you could use a top bottom 4s + 4s config with two bats?
9 months later, Tattu has a 1050mah 8S 5.0 batterie now, GNB has a LiHv 1100mah. RCinpower has 2207 1600kv GTSv4. I've still not blown a Foxeer 8S FC or ESC with internal voltage reg. My AUW is 610g. Lowest D gain I've ever needed on a quad, which in turn means I can get away with less filtering.
I feel this may be the next thing! be ready to see manufacturers making 8S ESC's.
Nice! Yes more Volts is less Amps so all the Connections and Boardlayout has to handle lower current more POWER! THX😎
Go with fully annealed solid copper wire for the stator winding. Soft and easy to bend...
Even the unicorn at 8:11 into video had to sit down lol, Big Thumbs up
Loved the collab with Chris!
You know the video is going to be a banger when bardwell is excited
Sic vid my dude, that thing ripsand who knows we may be headed it the 8s direction. The white unicorn in the background is dope!! 🦄
Hi Joshua, do racers use microphones (listen to their props) on their drones while racing? If so, how do they do it with digital systems like the DJI? Thanks
No they don't do that.
8S 1500kv works where 4S 3000kv doesn't, is because the low kv 8S motors have a massive torque reserve that will spin-up the prop faster
Could i use my old 4S packs in tandem for that ?
maybe even run power for everything else only from one pack ?
the reason i havent switched to 6S is the huge chunk of money i sunk into 4S packs....
You could.
You’re so excited about this and I’m here for it
I just watched Westpsyde build a DeWalt drone using a 5ah 20v ..10s battery. Im not affiliated or sponsored by any one hell i have learned everything from watching you on your channel, im trying to get into fpv; my question is does more cells more amperage= more power or is all this just for show?. I watched you an buddy fly an 8s now your 8s build. All while waiting on my first radio to try out the simulator so i can learn ...by the way thanks for all your videos on beginners fpv drones. Thanks to you i believe i now know enough to start an the type of drone to start with
As seen in the example of the motors with the difficulty of winding the wire. You can not arbitrarily go up with the voltage. It goes but the hardware costs explode... So there is a sweet spot/optimum between hardware costs and voltage level... Due to modern manufacturing processes and mass production this can of course shift upwards... But even there the possibilities are exhausted at some point...
Kv is the theoretical max RPM per Volt - it's constant for a motor whatever the voltage is.
I'm currently building a 12s quad, but this may be an interesting project for afterward !!
The name checks out 😂
@PerceptionFPV 😅😅Lol. I get that a lot actually. I'm building a custom 13" quad
I have a 12s. The quad wants to just.. keep going. It feels very fluid. Its like going from a Cessna 172 to a Boeing 777.
@@lunaticfpv17 13“ nah you’re making us look bad 😭😂
Wow... Rosser really knows he stuff.
Sounds like you should try some 5.5 in props
EDF jet style fixed wings love the 8s
5:30 bro is getting exhausted just flying the thing 😂😂
isn‘t there more current with higher voltage in the motor wires, because higher voltage is pushing more current, but the mosfet opening time is shorter for the same power. and higher current means more losses.
No opposite actually :-)
Josh: "I will explain the benefits of success"
everybody: Yes, go on!
This brings up a problem that I have when I switched from 4S to 6S. I started getting glitches. Black box showed a motor doing a short term power at 0. So I changed the ESC and motor on that one. It still glitches and Black box shows first one motor and then another one doing the same thing. I've since changed the FC, the RX and added a capacitor. I tried it with a 4S battery and no problems other than it needed a lot more throttle as you would expect. I'm sorry for the long post, but I'm at a loss.
There's also the voltage sag... As 8S batteries would need to deliver half the current, the voltage sag due to load should be a lot lower, contributing to deliver a consistant performance.
That is canceled out by the smaller cell size. Watt for watt, the c rate of the amp draw is the same.
Could you connect two 4s batteries in series to get the same effect without the expensive, hard to source, batteries?
11:15 he says that "with less copper we get more resistance". That is not true, resistance formula is R = ρ (L / A) where is ρ - constant for copper, and L is length and A is cross-section area. So when we HALVE number of wraps, our new L' = L/2 and L' in numerator, so two time less numerator 2 time less overall resistance.
So if we double cross section then overall resistance will be 4 time less, and he say exactly this later, so this phrase about "less copper get more resistance" is even more strange.
Yes! Unlimited power!
Higher kv motor manufacturing: you could use 3 stranded wires to make less turns with more width.
Some "scientific" tests where Flight time and Hover time is compared to 6s would ve been really interesting. How is the Voltage sag compared to 6s? what kv do you need to make at least as punchy as 6s is? People flew 1500mah and more on 4s, but only 1050 to 1400 on 6s, would it make sense to use a lower capacity on 8s for the same Watts?
Josh have you considered wrapping parts of that telephone/ power line with yellow foam tubing? Like the ones you see on dirt bike handle bars? I know you know it’s there, but that would make it visually targetable
would you test it with lower amount mAh? if we increase voltage, we can decrease mAh and get the same amount of Wh and the weight, that pretty close to 6s
Nice unicorn
0:26 , and this.. is to go one step beyond.. NRRRAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!
Bets on when 10s or 12s ESCs will be the thing? I think holybros been selling a very compact VESC which will handle 12s with no problem. If you never heard of VESC you need to check it out. For freestyle quads it’s probably not optimal but for larger quads and any other type of BLDC its absolutely amazing. It has FOC mode ( field oriented control) very smooth control, Increased efficiency, increased torque as well as dead silent commutation.
At some point around here though, voltages get dangerous. Even DC current.
@@LeviathantheMighty 12s is basically the safe handling limit.
Dude, you have lost so much weight this past year. Good on you man, you look great
Thanks for this video! May your crashes be soft.
Love the energy of the video 🎉
well then... why not 12s? 16s? 24s! I want to spin my props so hard they melt from the air resistance around them!
It's like motorcycle and cars never enough horsepower lol
24s is 100v. I guess around 12s is where we are crossing the danger zone)
Just put on jet engines at that point 😂
@@ventusz DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS DUDE xD
Lol same
Nice and super fast.....Is possible to set in betaflight / battery sensor 8S count Cell and amp/voltage for OSD?
Because betaflight has 25.5 volt limit!
Thanks
The power to weight ratio is insane
We will definitely see more ESC's more motors and more lipos ready for 8s Now that JB has made this video. Thank you, JB.😁🙌
OK I've waited long enough, time to build a 8s quad now
What's the difference between something like this and what Nurk FPV did with his 12s quad? I'm asking performance wise and such. I know his build was a little more complicated.
Foxeer Reaper F4 128K 65A 4in1 ESC and T-Motor F7 PRO FC can both take 3-8S. I use this combo on a 8S 7Inch Rig. So you don't need a voltage regulator. Is the combination cheaper than one? Probably not.
Why use a voltage regulator? Wouldn't it be possible to power the FC by rigging a cable that would extract a 6S voltage from the JST XH connector?
Im curious if two 4s batteries in parallel would be better since you get can get a higher C limit with the two 4s combined.
how about strapping 2 4s in sequence on top and bottom for weight distribution and cheap bats?
It would be interesting to know where the motor's permanent magnet limits are. From a certain point, a stronger effect between the electro and the permanent magnet is not possible, and at some point the magnet has to demagnetize..
the difference between 8s and 6s on the ground with wheels is actually insane. its a whole other level, i could imagine drones would be the same, but would take a bit to work out the bugs and the motor brake. volt up gear down is the saying in our 4x4 world.
No replacement for displacement. More S's more power. But a heavier build will mean more breakage
We're talking about fpv correct? Since when was $27 expensive in regards to building a niche 8s 5"...$27 isn't much in regards to fpv in general for a device you would need to make a rig airworthy, not sure why that particular bit of info grabbed my attention, regardless great vid, very informative, 8s looks like a blast...really glad there are components that make it possible, looking forward to some more options. Cheers!
Could you get longer flight times with 8S if compares same size/weight 6s batterys in long range build?
When talking 8s you have to do an 8s powered intro. My man 🤜🏾🤛
well hang on now bardwell, so the T-Motor F7 Pro V2 Flight controller is rated 3-8s not 6s so if i have a Flight Controller & ESC Both rated at 8s then there is no need for the regulator correct? And with the F7 Pro V2 being rated 8s i should just be able to plug my vista just straight into the F.C. Should i not? cause ever since i saw yall first flying at rotor riot with 8s i have waited and looked pretty damn hard for different 8s Rated components. & there is alot more then i thought. there is a 30x30 100amp 8s ESC on Banggod that i would totally try but ill need some conformation that im goood to build like that and not have a fire lol let me know please i can give the names of quite a few other components to if you want just to go over and see what all will work with what without the regulator cause i wont have room for the regulator in my 5" GRL Titanium Pro 2 Frame which is deff what ill be building with since it is even more durable then your valdor frame you used. gotta have all the durability i can get since your going twice as fast & crashing twice as hard lol
Does splitting the batteries top and bottom 2 smaller 4s packs help CG?
I just realized all my Reaper ESC's are 8s capable...
BrainFPV Radix 2HD FC is 8s...
nice PBJ props Budwell
Coming up, next year .... 10s is here, you have to try this :D