Dragon's Dogma 2 is a Mess: GPU & CPU Benchmarks, Bottlenecks, & Crashes
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
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Dragon's Dogma 2 came out to critical reception, with overwhelmingly negative Steam reviews relating to performance, crashes, microtransactions and DLC, and optimization. We're testing the CPU and GPU performance behavior and scaling in Dragon's Dogma 2, looking at how bottlenecks occur and which devices they impact the most. Testing includes CPUs like the 14900K vs. 7800X3D, 14600K, 2600X, 5600X, 12600K, 5800X3D, and more. We also tested on the RTX 4090 with a few spots of the 4070 Ti Super and RTX 4060 (before committing to a CPU comparison instead of GPUs). Testing looks at some of the best CPUs in 2024 for Dragon's Dogma 2 performance in heavy CPU load areas.
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Dragon's Dogma 2 Has Problems
02:42 - Testing Dragon's Dogma 2 on PC
04:26 - Dragon's Dogma 2 Framerate in Cities, Towns, & Fights
05:55 - GPU Performance Bottlenecks
07:23 - CPU Benchmarks & Comparison in Dragon's Dogma 2
08:54 - 12100F Frametime Plot (5000ms Spike!)
09:53 - 5600X Frametime Plot
10:15 - GPU vs. CPU Bottlenecks in Dragon's Dogma 2
14:35 - Conclusion & "Optimization"
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Steve Burke: Writing, Test Lead, Editing
Patrick Lathan: Testing
Mike Gaglione: Testing
Jeremy Clayton: Testing
Vitalii Makhnovets: Camera 
Игры
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DRM and DLC and Microtransactions make for the perfect ingredients! Can't wait to get more accounts temporarily banned if we ever benchmark this again!
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The mtx aren't new for Capcom, but I have to use GeForce Now to play it, honestly if I'd known PC performance was gonna be this bad I wouldn't have bought it
@@tylersmash7134Can't you return it?
I was going to buy this to test on my channel.... (pretty bad way to burn my cash i know).
I feel like getting your account banned from this is actually a huge win... now you can ignore the POS
At this point it'd just make sense to use a pirated version, except those tend to run much better than legit versions thanks to the removal or DRMs 🤷♂️
@@user-Aaron- I'm waiting for it to get better but I'm using GeForce Now to play it
"Huh, our game barely runs and its extremely cpu bound? We better add denuvo so the game decrypts through the cpu and and makes the bottleneck even worse."
What're you talking about? OBVIOUSLY Denuvo has no effect on performance as they've stated 1000 times (after every game that comes out with it has shit performance) -- Why would they possibly lie about that? ;)
This is one of the best looking games of 2006
@@BattleneterI think it's my favorite PS3 game of all time
@@adamuser8246lmao are you an idiot why can’t both be true ? The game is poorly optimized and adding Denuvo makes it worse
@@adamuser8246 ps5's don't exactly carry 4090Ti's, 18-core cpu's or 32GB+ DDR5 etc.. 🙄 clearly all denuvo-infused game engines get crippled with micro-to-megastutters introduced all over the place.
Nothing else ever ruined more UE4-based titles and beyond at release including AAA and AAAA ones, period.
Like the late TotalBiscuit said, "buying games on launch gets you the worst experience at the highest price". Seems thats the norm for gaming these days.
Which is ironic because this is a very gaming thing, usually buying early or at a higher price point, gives you a premium product, but with gaming, it's the other way around that you get better by paying less, especially on the PC because not only is the game patched up after months or years, but the drivers will be in a better state to get more performance out of the game.
It doesn't pay to buy games on release with how little respect publishers show games, wait a few months or a year and get the game much cheaper, patched up and drivers that are in a better state.
On another note, I rarely play games on release any more, and because of that, I rarely have any issues with games, they just run and perform great, whiles paying less for them, a lot of gamers that have issues are the early adopters and they are paying a premium to be a beta tester.
It's remarkable that gamers still put up with this on PC and console, and we know they do because game sales are still high on release, hence why publishers keep doing this, they'll only listen once sales really get hurt hard, until then, they don't care.
for PC*
It runs fine on my ps5, my roommates ps5, and several people I follow on twitter.
Last time I pre-ordered a game and played at launch was the og MW3 (2011). Now a days games are not worth buying at launch for full price. The last game I bought at full price was COD Cold War, then I gave up buying new games at full price
@@Insanemonk11 The performance isn't really amazing on PS5 either, it's just more stable in how badly it runs so it feels a lot less so.
@@TheBubbeloo whatever PC people need to tell themselves, I don't judge
Isn't it ironic that anti-piracy leads people to want to pirate more? The more and more I sit on this game waiting to see what develops with the patches the more I want to wait for a sale.
so ur still buying.. what lol
@@lowfade3273 Crapcom getting $70 from me now for an unoptimized greedfest game VS Crapcom getting $15-30 from me months/years down the line for a complete and patched to hell and back version of a game is still a difference.
It's weird because why don't people just play other games that they can afford? There's so many types of games
@@pixelforg They're not saying they can't afford, the anti-piracy makes the ones who pirate it instead of buying it have a better experience
@@imrgalaxy6684 then why not buy the game and also pirate the game both? You get to support the devs while also getting a better experience. Tbf if I was in this scenario I'd simply play other games lol, there's soo many that I won't even be able to finish in my lifetime
This kind of CPU wait / GPU wait analysis is EXACTLY what we've needed for... forever, honestly, to figure out why so many games have lag/stutter issues. Now if we can just get the game developers to use these analytic approaches to FIX THEIR CODE, we'll have more stable games and will all be a lot happier.
Adding Denuvo is a great way to punish the people who actually paid for your game to the point that people who pirate it have a better experience.
If only there were more people that could crack Denuvo. Sadly very few games with it actually get cracked, and whenever it happens most devs will remove Denuvo from the game and everyone gets a better experience.
Let's not pretend the performance issues are denuvo.
@@Kilioh15Some definitely are, every denuvo game has this exact issue. Although I do think they are probably other fixes needed in this case as well.
@Kilioh15 good thing we dont have to pretend then, lmao
@@Kilioh15 When performance issues include CPU bottlenecking, Denuvo absolutely makes this worse. CPU utilization is one of the three things Denuvo impacts. That's why every other post here has "Denuvo" somewhere in it. Also take careful note of the thread about people defending Denuvo, and the incredulity over there being such people on Earth.
I can't believe that the performance is so bad, and they put Denuvo on top of that, disgusting.
"Barnacles! What could be worse than one giant DRM?"
"Oh I know."
*Capcom's in house DRM*
"Two giant DRMs!"
and a ton of micro-transactions for a single player game. pathetic
Did everyone (users and capcom) forget the Resident Evil Village/Monster Hunter fiascos? Why do they keep using that DRM that destroys performance on higher requirement games..
@@fredt1983Pirates are the big boogeyman for big corporations that haunt them every second so all of them think DRM will save them a few pennies.
Denuvo is essentially an anti piracy and kernel level anti cheat. Which bloats the .exe and usually causes performance issues...almost always in fact.
This is going to be an awesome game to play on my ryzen 11950x3d in a few years
dont forget 7090ti.
@@ASAFYY 6090 super ti should be fine ;)
Steve - this game is what you needed to test the new metrics. You're living your best life that as soon as you guys came up with these metrics a game drops that is so perfect for demonstrating why they're needed!
The people that defend Denuvo are going to blow a gasket.
Do those exist?!
@@GamersNexusSadly yes. There are people that have bought into Denuvo's argument that their DRM doesn't impact performance.
@@GamersNexusWaaaaay too many people also defends Capcom’s unnecessary MTX as well.
@@nanoflower1 I dunno as much as I dislike Denuvo I do think the performance impact is vastly overstated in most cases, in this game the performance of comparable Zen 2 CPUs on PC seems to be in line with the consoles' chips.
@@aquilliusranger2137 the mtx is unnecessary but also not needed since you can get all of those items and more by playing the game.
Oh man I have been hoping/looking forward to you guys tackling this one!
I'm astonished looking at the steam's discussion page. So many people defending this game, claiming no problem with performance, no problem with the DRM or DLCs. Heck, somebody's asking about why the game performance sucks, and got blasted by people saying "it just launched!". Half baked games are really the norm now.
If HBO was hiring shills to defend their output online and write fake reviews praising it (they've outright admitted to having done this), I have no doubt the entire industry is doing the same.
I have 40 hours+ in the game now, nearly max settings and using recording software. only really stutter in the city. I honestly think people just don't know how to set their graphics settings, or people expect to play an extremely beautiful game at entirely max settings and expect over 100fps. it's a very fun game with great story writing and combat, and it's probably the most beautiful game I've played. I dont see how it's getting shit on so much
@@GalactoseGalaxy Denuvo or Capcom?
@@GalactoseGalaxyIt's a great game, but it's clearly optimized terribly.
It's a good game, but the performance is just trash. The scummy tactics with the DLC and P2W are also obviously a thing to blame.
If you ignore all of those, Dragon's Dogma 2 is a very good and fun game. Reminds me of Skyrim somewhat.
Whoever optimized DD2 at Capcom is obviously the boss' favorite nephew
It's obvious that they gave Itsuno pretty much unrestricted creative control over this project, and he went full 1999 George Lucas. There's absolutely no way Capcom themselves would have approved of there being no New Game option, or Dragonsplague (which can potentially kill every NPC in your game overnight in a game with ONE SAVE and no ability to start over), or UNSTABLE 30FPS ON CONSOLES because of overcomplicated spaghetti-coded AI routines for every single NPC. Itsuno's Vision (tm) was part of what made the original game exactly the right kind of weird, but he went so overboard in the sequel that he demanded things that no hardware on the market could even run.
@@ButtSolution idk if i can even blame it on Itsuno DMC5 came out so well optimized that i was joking about production level nephews
but realistically it's so effed up that any number of reasons is possible
the Itsuno team could be ass at working with the RE Engine (especially with open worlds)
or it could be that they had issues and Capcom just didn't cared or you could be entirely right too in the end all i know is that they effed it up with one of my favorite IPs and it's sad but i won't helicopter parent it Capcom shouldn't have released DD2 in that state
and now im concerned for Monster Hunter Wilds
@@ButtSolutionGod could you scream any harder that you went into Dragon's Dogma demanding Elden Ring? You zoomers are worse than vegans.
It's a modern day Problem. Why optimize when you can rely on dlss or fsr. Crapcom!
The human eye can't perceive more than 24 stutters per second! 🫠
i honestly cant thank you guys enough for this video. i thought i was taking crazy pills. you guys aren't even a game reviewing channel yet you are the first people out of ALL the channels i follow to give any sort of due diligence to the performance of a frickin PC GAME! every single of the top reviewers literally just said something along the lines of a whispered aside like "performance wasn't great in cities but i am playing on a 4090 so your milage may vary"...and that was it! meanwhile, it is unplayable on a 3080 and i7 12700kf...what happened to the days where pc games were reviewed on a high end, mid and low end rig? according to steam hardware survey, only 4-6% of players have a better gpu-cpu than me. given these figures, who is this game for?! how can these reviewers be so negligent in their reviews of a pc game? the reviews of this game honestly have completely disheartened me on even paying attention to reviews. it seems that merely scrolling down on the steam review page could inform customers better on their purchase...again, thank you for always being a bastion of integrity in the PC community
Thanks for the kind words and for the tip! You're definitely not alone in performance. Looking through the user reviews, it seems like a ton of players are encountering game-breaking issues with either performance or crashes.
It's because these reviewers are rich and they have top end hardware, which is fine but if I was a reviewer I would have my personal rig which has all the top of the line hardware, and a couple normal rigs that would better represent what my viewers had. It's a no brainer. "Oh, it works great on my $5,000 rig!" Yeah, no sh*t. This is so out of touch it's like having a RUclips channel dedicated to reviewing airlines and then riding on your private jet and saying "the boarding times are non-existent!"
exactly. its just super lazy, negligent or shady. i made almost the same comparison in another comment its like reviewing an airline when you've only flown 1 time on first class.@@thelbtlover
"Who is this game for?" PS5 owners. Even the Series X has image quality issues as reported by Digital Foundry. Seriously, you're in the minority of a minority of players with that kind of expensive gpu and you should be able to play this at 4K 60 but alas, times are getting real rough for the industry.
@@thelbtloverthe game runs like shit on my top end build and mid range build so it should be obvious to everyone. On pc at least. Also skill up does what you said with two builds but looks like no review yet from him
Btw the original poster should check out Digital Foundry
Damn, you guys are good … such a great overview and analysis … thank you for continuing to deliver robust assessments.
Nice to see PresentMon here after watching the interview! I was wondering how my CPU was struggling even though RTSS showed it at
The level of moore’s law compensation going on this generation is really impressive. They’re working hard to keep everything running like a 360 game despite all the power available to them
That's a remarkable piece of software engineering 😂
like holy s**t they aren't even doing the bare minimum anymore just brute force everything.
@@cin2110 it’s ok, they can always optimise by enabling FSR 2 ultra performance :) at 1080p
That just says a lot about current day engineers and devs
360 games ran better than current gen games on PS5 while also having more game packed into just about every game made on 360.
Anyone else remember a time when shipping a game meant that it was fully functional?
Exactly: Pong never needed updates!
Thanks a lot for the 12:00 part, I never got to really understand why I would see gpu and cpu both sitting at 50% and fps nowhere to be found
It's getting to the point where you have to wait 1-2 years to play new games until they fix all the issues. Also might as well wait for it to be discounted at that point.
I think there is an extremely high chance this will turn out like Jedi Survivor and Hogwarts Legacy, meaning it'll never be fixed. All of them are very cpu-bound and have engine limitations. Their engines were pushed beyond what they were made for and the devs did not possess the knowledge to work around or avoid the limits. Just my guess, but I think they would have to rework massive parts of the engine and the game's code to get this into anything close to 60 even on 400-700 dollar CPUs and that would take 1-2 years. If a 14900k and 7800X3D drop into the 20s for the 0.1 % lows they would need close to 3 times the performance and I don't see where they would get that with the meagre optimisation that games receive post-launch...
maybe not 1-2 years, but def never pre-order and for these types of massive games, wait until a few months until they fix the launch bugs which are 100% garuanteed to be there.. for capcom games its a no go until denuvo is patched out
Or torrent it to avoid paying shit companies
@@Blade_of_TomoeDenuvo games are no longer being cracked because Empress is an asshole.
It's getting to the point? Nah, it's been like this for 8 years now
They knew about this, and don’t call me Shirley.
I was trying to work a Don't call me Shirley into that sentence but couldn't make it happen!
@@GamersNexusSurely there was a way?
9:40 that's not a spike in frametime, that's a fence post in frametime. A telephone pole in frametime. A sewer pipe in frametime. A skyscraper in frametime.
Thank you for doing all this work.
Holy, this CPU Busy data is so valuable
cant find it on my installation tho. can only find GPU Busy. im not sure whether thats because i have a somewhat older system (that doesnt make this data available) or GN got some kind of alpha version of this app
@@konradsikorski1646 Look at the most recent interview with the Intel guy, GN is running a closed beta version of Presentmon for now until Intel gets some feedback from them (news media) about it, will release openly then.
@@konradsikorski1646 This actually piss me off a bit. They (and Intel) have talked about this feature for while, and presented it in a way like everyone should use it, which i can agree on, but it isn't available to other than the reviewers. This is off course to create a hype.
@@konradsikorski1646 I also don't have CPU Busy. I have an R9 7900 and RTX 3080, so I highly doubt my hardware is too old for it. It just seems to be in a private beta or something.
Was that griffin The Wicked Witch of the DRM? Is that why it melted when it touched water?
release was clearly pushed out 3 months early to hit the financial year end for shareholders.
Extra 3 months wouldn't have helped. Capcom deliberately made the game worse for corporate DIE and *MODERN AUDIENCES* . The character creator has options from the first game implemented but deliberately locked off.
This! Fiscal Year End
@@kanrakucheeseSomething in the game being "woke" or not "woke" won't affect your fps lmao
@@funkle2645 It 100% impacts development priorities.
@@funkle2645 It 100% impacts development priorities.
Respect for going through this hell, it is a graphically interesting game so it surely was worth it
Did you force resizable bar in NV profile inspector?
That long pause at 9:30 - Even the NPC was like "Oh dear..."
Game should have been delayed by 6 months to a year just for optimization alone.
Executives probably demanded the money on this quarterly report ending this month. Shove it out the door!
@@gantech7788It's not only executives, the lead of the game aka director also has hand in this case. In console they talk uncapped FPS aiming 30 fps. What a joke. (the optimization problem is also plague console btw, it just console play in 30 fps thus drop to 20 fps is not really that jarring).
Nay just remove Trashuvo
@@gantech7788 wouldn't be surprised. Capcom's release cadence generally places their big games in Q1
I don't think they know how to do it
Things start making more sense as to why they released the game in this state when you realize that Japan's end of fiscal year is March 31st. This is not the first time they have released games in a less than stellar state to please shareholders and it certainly won't be the last. If the next Monster Hunter is going to have a simultaneous release on PC, expect this to happen again.
The game isn't even too bad. Ye the performance can be better, but people act like Capcom went to their house, shot their pet dog, clogged the toilet and then left the oven on after leaving. Extremely ridiculous.
@@Mayhzon The video very clearly shows that performance is absolutely terrible, with the numbers to back it up. Just because you don't care how badly a game performs doesn't mean others shouldn't either.
@@Mayhzon Just because your standards are absolute dogshit, doesnt mean everyone else should accept shit capcom throws at them
@@NightKev Lol, this. Performances are bad is an objective statement that can be measured. "I personally don't mind insanely bad frame pacing" is just preference.
After setting it to high priority in task manager I'm running perfectly fine on a 7700K, the game itself is great. Just wish they'd remove Denuvo so it'd run better.
A user on the forum had perfomance issues. I suggested checking the connection. He disconnected his computer and it fixed the issue.
This channel is incredible!
Thank you for everything you do for us! ✌️
It seems that this is at least partially related to resizable BAR. On Linux/Proton, there's an environment variable, VKD3D_CONFIG=no_upload_hvv that gives a nearly 50% performance boost by disabling a very specific ReBAR feature.
Interesting...
Interesante....
And this game is murdering the intel cards because of that
its so sad Steve Nexus died of Dragma after this review
Who the hell is Dogons?
Joe Mama@@scalarmotion
@@scalarmotionDragma balls
Who tf is Steve Jobs?
Dragmas Dogron
@GamersNexus
WOW! Such a great tech review you did! With SO many Benchmarks, considering SO many configurations!! REALLY noone else does it in such depth and detail like you do! Thanks a lot for testing this as a whole team and with so much effort! Through your input now I know what awaits me... I just made it to create the main Character (due to technical issues trying to live stream it on my Legion GO and just very limited time) and am looking forward to play the game even with its issues. Those city stutters look CRAAAZY though! 😱😱😱
I really, really, reaaallly like this kind of video - digital foundry game per game basis analysis style - from GN team! God I really wish GN have the bandwidth to bring back this kind of video from time to time and make it a series. Make the breakdown game analysis more detail, like adding input latency analysis, etc. The game choice could be a popular latest games, or even the niche one too, it doesn't matter.
Good job on the video GN!!!
I agree. Specially after the fiasco of thr DF staff being woke, I just can't watch that guy anymore.
@@Rivershieldthey wer always bought and payed for..........linus is a joke too, this is the only channel (thats big) that you can trust.... but its only a matter of time till they sell out too.........i hope im wrong but it is what it is.
17:27 Love the character just jumping over and over under the stairs in the distance there.
And to think that's the 'AI' that is destroying the CPU.
@@ssduo5574I think it's pronounced AAAAAIIIIIII in this instance 🫣
That's been standard pawn behavior for 12 years
Imagine telling people you work at Gamers Nexus, and someone asks: “Wow! Do you get to play video games at work all day?”
“Uhh, sometimes.”
hahaha. We were talking about this while working on this one
The DRM implementation is absolutely shit.
Yeah the main concern with these DRMs is performance issues. These checks can indeed have a huge impact on performance. It's quite simple to understand: if the checks are triggered every time the player does a basic action (like moving the character), it's going to spam requests all the time and it's going to be disastrous. On the other hand, if we don't do any checks at all, it will be very easy for hackers to crack the DRM and the whole process will be worthless. Of course, there is a balance to be struck here: more checks mean a safer game, but a greater impact on performance.
@@dingickso4098if it was only being called once per player input then it wouldn't matter at all
*All DRM implementation.
@@dingickso4098we gonna need start thinking DRM is part of the game so we're gonna need 2 cores only for that LOL, it's not hard to understand. Whats the problem, you really think theyre gonna give games for free because you are handsome? The price is already very low since its stuck to 60 dollars since the 90s LOL
@@jc_dogenWhen the game is close to being bound to one of the processors then it can greatly effect performance. Such as the AI in the cities for this game it can dramatically effect it. Plus crackers (the hackers that steal stuff) tend to make tools that can get around stuff like DRM eventually.
I subbed years ago but this channel has slowly become my favorite, none other channel break things down as thoroughly or technically as this.
Excellent video!
I’ll wait for a sale…it might even be done by then
like almost everything these few years lol and people are still buying AAA games on release or better... preorder that unfinished crap, sadly it will never change, too many people are supporting this. honor with exception ofc
Yeah. Imagine being more CPU intensive than freaking totalwar or EU4 lol.
"I'll wait for a sale" is still rewarding them for producing a broken game.
We need to take a stand against devs who release games like this, or it'll just keep getting worse and worse.
So put your foot down, say no I won't buy your game PERIOD if it launches and it's a steaming pile like this.
@@Dr80SK Horizon Forbidden West has been the only exception for me in a loooong time. The game both looks amazing and runs incredibly well, not a single stutter or even the slightest hitch, and it loads into the world in 8 seconds thanks to Direct Storage. It's so refreshing to finally play a modern game with beautiful visuals that doesn't have traversal or shader stutter. So there are still at least a few developers out there who actually care.
@@shawnpitman876 Just had a friend from India complain about how this game literally costs 20% of his monthly salary and he'd literally starve if he buys this game while Baldur's Gate 3 costs almost half lol.
EDIT: Basically the majority of humanity cannot even afford this game because it's from a greedy Japanese publisher that doesn't know why regional pricing exists lol.
The developer's release apology is basically just
"We're sorry, our game isn't finished yet."
Like.. damn.
also "please buy the DLC we made absolutely sure would be ready from day 1 even if the core game isn't"
That's most AAA game launches in recent years. Publishers want to release games before the end of a specific financial quarter/year so they can show profits to investors and since you can "just patch" the game after release they think they can afford to release games in an unfinished state.
Tbf, thats basically every game release now.
I heard that more like: "Our game is heavy because we did this thing with NPCs... it doesn't run well? Well, tough luck, one day there'll be good enough CPUs for this".
It's Capcom, an arrogant and shady company that finally is getting called out on their practices. They have been doing this trick where they spring microtransactions on people after launch, for decades.
Glad you guys put a CPU benchmark that is highly useful.
Great video. Would be cool to see a return to Cities: Skylines 2 with this analysis tech.
To anyone asking why a studio would ever release a game in this state: Capcom made them push the game out in March so that they could have the release before the end of the fiscal year and get the share price boost from it - conversely if they'd delayed it even one month it would have been after the end of the fiscal year and their shares would have suffered because of a delayed release.
It's on par with Capcom's previous triple-A releases outside of Resident Evil games which sometimes launch in Q2 or Q3 too.
@@kwizzeh Others have also pointed out that Street Fighter 6 was supposed to release in February 2023 and was only delayed on the insistence of the dev team - not sure what leverage those guys had in order to be able to make such a big delay happen, developers are rarely allowed such delays unless the game is in a dire state which SF6 didn't seem to be.
Greed
@@KillahMate SF6 World Tour ran like ass on PS4 and Series S
Get a ps5 @@Ag76945
There should be an annual game award for the most unoptimized game. Cities Skylines 2 in 2023 and still it is, and now Dragon's Dogma 2.
Cities skyline 2 isnt unoptimised tho...
Its the player that is as fault for not actually going in and doing the settings themselves
I dont think people realise just how many thousands of NPC, cars and other stuff is going on all at the same time
Quite literally to the point where there is no other game in existence that would even launch much less run
Don’t forget kerbal space program 2
It should be like the razzies. You can have different categories, worst optimization, worst game update, worst PR disaster, worst monetization, worst crunch, worst studio mismanagement.
@@commanderoof4578 cities skylines launched terribly. A lot of stuff basically had no lod, culling was an issue etc. That's unoptimized. Not a settings issue.
@@SimonVaIe nope that was the review builds
And even if that did actually happen to launch builds it would have been down to an idiot using the wrong build to upload or steam being steam and putting the wrong version as public
And with dragons dogma 2 most of the issues are from lack of optimisation and the rest is DRM BS
Better off buying the game and playing a pirated version where the DRM has been gouged out
Appreciate your straight forward communication. What you guys do, should be actually done by the developers to a certain extend.
The best part of this video is the fact that Steve is talking about serious stuff and there's a bunch of graphics showing all sorts of technical data and then there's a guy in the background murdering NPC's and a Griffin suiciding into the water.
Thank you denuvo.
Back to you denuvo
Love your coverage
@gamersnexus I wish you had reviewed the TT tower 300. I really like the look of it ever since The Tower 900, but I know there's been limitations with cooling in the numerous previous revisions. So the Tower 300 looked very promising and intriguing with the option of laying it on the side.
There are pre-alpha games that run better than this!
And on top of this, there's some very ancient game design decisions to make the gameplay more frustrating, what a game.
you're right im pretty sure something like ashes of creation which is in pre-alpha runs better LOL
Hell I run this game with easy with a i7-9700k with a 2070 super
Like Baldur's Gate 3, which was released very incomplete but still seemed to run mostly just fine.
IGN gives it 9/10. It's only 6-7 for me.
Well, at least you can see the NPCs before you run into them on PC. Digital Foundry's video showed on consoles the NPCs literally pop onto the screen right in front of you because of the comically short draw distance.
That's not exclusive for consoles, I play on PC And have the same problem in the city
I am so glad to have a solid understanding of bottlenecks now. This is gonna completely change the way I tweak my settings in games.
I am eagerly awaiting PresentMon 2.0 for some testing I want to do. Does it reveal CPUStart like the diagram shows at 10:48? Have you found it useful for diagnosing animation errors? (I would think the interval between CPUStart for successive frames should be a consistent frametime and lack "jitter", ideally?)
On another note, nice URL for this video. This video has the moves!
It seems like we have another case similar to "We can't increase your stash space because we have to load every player's stash at all times and that's too much overhead"
At least theres an actually good game behind these performance issues. Can't say as much for Diablo IV.
@@user-ej4jq5bw4c i thought he was talking about fallout 76 lmao
@@user-ej4jq5bw4cDD2 is a good game.. its a shame that everyone is only focusing on subpar performance and a stupid executive corporation decision to add micro transactions. The developers worked hard on this game and it shows. The investors and CEO’s of the world are what ruin games nowadays.
@@user-ej4jq5bw4c No, they deliberately made the character creator worse. Straight up has features fully implemented but cut off if you don't use a memory poke.
@@77Friction It's kind of hard to enjoy a good game when it runs like crap.
Game reviewers 0
Gamers Nexus 1
We need more of this and less of the idiots saying "your mileage may vary".
Most of them are only influencers ready to grab any free game copy.
dude, WorthaBuy and OhnoitsAlexx ripped the Game appart.
Capcom has all reviewers in their pocket. They gave the "professional" reviewers a trip and dinner to a fancy hotel for the preview. And the regular RUclips reviewers who got review copies were part of the "Capcom creator program", where they literally pay them off, through their "paid market opportunity" program.
Your mileage may vary tech tips still going? I unsubbed last year and took weeks of pressing not interested to get them out of my feed, they clearly had help from their YT rep trying to re-reach ex subscribers
@@sophieedel6324The heck is being said here? Every reviewer said "game seems cool.... when it runs". I've not seen any instance of a reviewer that didn't mention the performance issues.
"Oh dear" so well timed....
13:10 The brine claims a Griffin.
Isn’t this the same engine they used for Resident Evil Remakes?
Our understanding is that it is, yes.
Even same as Devil May Cry 5!
RE Engine is good as we know from the RE games which run better than any other games. This game’s code though is terribly optimised, which is why the CPU is the bottlenecked.
RE games are much more linear with not much agents running around. Looks like engine was not fully suited cpu wise
Monster Hunter: Rise also uses same engine.
We're all paying full box price for what's essentially a rental.
Maybe I'll just wait 5 years so I can buy it on GOG lol
@@Flyon86don't forget to wait for a sale.
Hopefully sales are actually bad. Because if people are willing to buy a poorly optimized $70 game with microtransactions and DRM, get ready for $100 games next. Capcom already said they think games should cost $100.
@@sophieedel6324Capcoms most successful PC release.
Yea, nah, games sadly enough are not bad.
Alot of us didn’t buy it at all, we just like watching people slowly learn
Edit: I believe it’s called “growing pains”
Thanks, now I can find out if this game can run on my set up
good review!
You're the most affected party, start a legal fund to sue them and plant a precedent that no, you can't have a DRM that blocks you from using your license.
It'd be like if used cars stopped working when the 4th second hand owner sits into the car
Don't give them ideas. They'd love to lock your car like that.
This kind of DRM needs to go.
Steam is already DRM, it's enough, people buy games if the game works.
In cases where the game has stuff like denuvo, it doesn't work so people get a better deal by not buying it at all.
Real crappy way to treat paying customers.
Car manufacturers: WRITE THAT DOWN!
Not even a new owner. You repaired and replaced too much.
It's denuvo. Just wait for the Emperess crack.
4:04 The pause before "launch" conveys a depth of pain and torment.
Over this guys! Thank you very much!
This is amazing ❤ cpu bottleneck was never showed in a clearer way.
If you can, please do similar video for helldivers 2? It seems to be aalso very cpu heavy and I can't decide if it's worth to update the cpu or it's just optimization issues.
If you do do the video try to benchmark in difficulties 7-9 and planets with vegetation and fog it's a serious impact. I have ryzen 5 2600 @4.1GHZ and rx 5700 xt with 16gb RAM in dual channel and its 30 to 85 fps range depending on difficulty and map.
I am definitely CPU bottlenecked in high difficulty scenarios but I am not so sure the game is well optimized either, especially for those difficulties and I don't know how much fps I will gain to switch to ryzen 5600 as I've seen people with higher end rigs say they have poor fps, so seems like gamble / waste of money.
get it! its way more optimized, you can edit the video settings to get it fluid👍.
As usual outstanding video. Really in depth tests and properly investigates bottlenecks and issues with the game.
Thanks for the explainer on the CPU load figure. Always wondered why it rarely showed my CPU doing the kind of work I was expecting it to do.
Yeah CPU load is a really hard one to measure. Your core can be 100% ulitized doing just one instruction set, utilizing only a tiny part of the whole core. Because of this it might only show 10-30% utilization in measuring software. So yeah, ignore that. GPU/CPU busy tells the right story.
Something potentially worth investigating is performance on older CPUs. I'm running an i7 8700k @4.7GHz, a GTX 1080, and the game is installed on a fairly high end M.2 SSD. At 1080p I get 50-60 fps outside and 30-40 fps in the city. However I don't get any of the serious micro stuttering you describe, not once has it hitched like you showed in the video.
Although I dont know your settings, your gpu is very likely slow enough to give some headroom to the cpu, so your cpu isnt having such a bad time like in this review. Just my 2c...
Had I known this was a PresentMon 2.0 review, I'd have clicked right away. Thanks Steve !
Didn't think a game can run worst then the Jedi survivor port.
Try Wild Hearts on PC. Most unoptimized game I've ever played.
there are already like 3 games that runs worse than that lol
It's actually running pretty great for a modern release. Only issue is with cities because of NPC density.
@Whiteshade I forgot about that one, lol. EA walked away from that game so fast as well
@cin2110 just 3? I can name more than 3 in the past 4 years.
I have a 7800X3D with DDR5-6000 CL30 memory, I would weep with joy to get that 83fps average. I get 63 average tops in the city. My 4070S sits at like 40% usage so there's not much I can do lol
Oh noo playable framerate.... my ol 3600 gets 29, spiderman remaster ran smoother in times square.
That Zaku polo drip though!
Thanks Steve!
Please Steve, you have to make a shirt based on the Bigger Number Better meme you've created, it's just so hilarious! There is just so much you can do with that meme.
Dragma Nuts
*dogma shit
Dogma balls
Excellent review but I enjoy that the catman character is just named "no".
Thanks Steve.
Never dodged a bullet more than with not preordering this mess
I was about to preorder when I read the PCgamer article, Capcom shoot themselves in the foot with this Game.
You shouldn't pre order in general. Costs nothing to wait until you how it is day one
After D4, I'm skeptical of everything
Why would you ever preorder? Preordering tells companies they can ship whatever unoptimised garbage they want because they've already got your money.
@@kingplunger6033pre order benefits are usually enticing but they’re lack luster for this game I almost pre ordered then pulled the trigger on hell divers
When Denuvo is removed in a year performance will improve significantly. Until then stay clear.
Stay clear after too, the entire game is flawed, not just the performance
@@canaconn2388 What a disappointment then as I hold fond memories of Dragon's Dogma. No hope is lost as it stands at 89 at Metacritic.
@@canaconn2388"I demand only perfection". Every game is flawed.
@@Glotttis Not as much as this one 😂
($40 worth of microtransactions on top of the base price)
@@canaconn2388 just stop, the mtx is literally nothing, it's like selling, pokeballs and potions in a pokemon game or souls in a dark soul game, completely insignificant and silly, all their games have mtx, clearly the problem is performance, adults don't care about anything other than that as along as the mtx is not needed and doesn't get in the way of the actual game
You mentioned wanting to talk about Simulation Time error somewhere earlier in the video, but you never got around to doing it. Was there anything worthwhile to mention with frames being out of sync?
Optimization for this game is simply atrocious. I run it on AMD Ryzen 5 5600X with an RTX3080 at 1440p and im getting 29fps...
Cyberpunk on max settings runs over 60fps for crying out loud!
Easy fix go buy a 4090 and avoid the town 😂
How long to take cyberpunk get optimized after release and bugs too?
They absolutely knew in what state the game was. One would expect to run the thing dead stable at ultra settings considering the thing somehow manages to not look very graphically impressive (especially the characters) compared to a lot of older games.
I say refund if you bought it.
when even a 7800x3d-rtx4090 combo still wont give you good performance...
goes to show just how awful this game is.
Cyberpunk is 4 years older and it ran like shit on release. They had a long time to fix their mess :p
11:25 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS
SO sick of people online screaming that you're only CPU bound when your CPU has high utilization. THANK YOU
its more a game engine bound that a CPU bound. since the engine do not fully utilise the CPU.
So in this situation i dont think its fair to say that its a CPU bound, its a game engine bound.
@@user-Cata7sti7ma7 If the engine cannot fully utilize the CPU... the game is CPU-bound. That's literally what that means. Like stated in the video, just because your CPU isn't being 100% utilized, doesn't mean you aren't CPU-bound.
Using a higher end CPU increases performance, using a lower end CPU decreases performance. That's the definition of CPU-bound.
@@user-Cata7sti7ma7That doesn't make any sense. It is not a "game engine bind." The engine is not limiting us. The CPU is limited on certain cores. You can't just take a workload that assigns to a single thread and split it. Programming isn't that easy.
@@GamersNexus
CPU bound as always been when you hit 99% usage, then the CPU is entirely at fault for the performance. Then if GPU is a 99% is then the GPU that is at fault for the performance. When both are not fully used at 100% It is engine bound. The engine API is the limiting factor aka bad API programming and optimization. The hardware is not concerned at all.
If Colossal order (city skyline) manage to scale their engine API to 64 thread, everyone can, If Doom eternal can get 99% GPU usage even at 480p and the fps count that scale nearly linearly, everyone can, specially programmer of multi-billionaire company. There are lazy, and everyone know it.
Whether it's CS2, Valorant, R6S, de facto at 1080p, the GPU and the CPU are not 100%, they are engine bound games. The sole responsible is the engine API. When we call CPU bound, GPU bound, Engine bound. we point out the person responsible for the limitations.
The game is poorly coded. It does not fully utilize the hardware except if you intentionally GPU bound yourself, Brief DD2 is poorly coded like 99% of game is .
Because great coded game is not a factor of commercial success… minimum effort generalized mediocrity is the watchword. Minimum effort maximum profit.
Thanks Steve and gang.
Steve, could you do a video on Lossless Scaling? I've been getting awesome results from frame generation, would like some tips from pros like you on how to properly configure the software.
Thanks as always, Steve
i knew something wasnt right. i was watching a streamer with a 4090 struggle to stream it at a consistent 60fps, always dropping to 30. we're entering an era where AAA devs seem to not care about games being playable on PCs
The GPU is irrelevant here. It's the CPU that matters most.
@@CKarasu13 that's how he knew something was wrong, if a professional streamer with a modern beast of a PC can't stream this well then theres something up.
@@JFrenchman We don't even know if something's up, or that the decision to track all the NPCs the way they do is fundamentally a bad idea with current CPU architecture. Could be anywhere between those two points. Would love to see a professional look at the tracking an AI and break it down, if possible.
That "era" has been going for a long while now. I remember when the original Watch Dogs was coming out someone found a comment in the code that Ubisoft accidentally left - "this is a PC only setting, who cares?". Ubisoft, Rockstar, Fromsoft are just a few of the AAA studios that don't care about PC
To be fair in this case, the game apparently also runs bad on consoles. Seems to have far less crashes, but still plenty of stuttering and fps often below 20!
This one isn't a bad port, it's a bad game.
I’ve been wondering why despite having an r5 7500 and a 4080 noctua (not the beefiest setup but still) I’ve been getting 24 frames in the city on high with ray tracing off. I thought maybe the 1080p monitor was causing an issue but I’m also not very computer savvy. Glad i found this video!
When you said you assigned names to each sample, my insane brain imagined giving a name to each frame and was immediately disappointed. Me sad, but I don't regret being insane.
Capcom: "hm.... This dumpster fire looks bad. We should do something about it."
Grabs the can labeled "kerosene (denuvo)" and pours it on the fire.
No, the can is actually labeled Denuvo.
But yes, correct and accurate lol
Capcon: “hm…. Still needs something, but what?”
Tosses in a bag of firewoods (Micro transactions)
Chef’s kiss as walks away slowly.
Capcom is very protect of it's IPs. It's nothing new.
Don't think without Denuvo this would be different, though. The first Dragon's Dogma also struggled on release. It was one of the few games on console then with visual stutter and issues in big cities?
Must be something about how they coded this and the previous Dragon's Dogma game.
@@Mayhzon i think its cause they used the reengine it isnt deisgned for open world rpgs with tons of npcs, they should have just used ue5, but im sure capcom execs were like we can save so much money by using our in house engine
It has Trashuvo. Once again, customers suffer while pirates do their duty as usual.
It would be extremely interesting to have a comparison between Denuvo and non Denuvo version, like with Hogwarts Legacy, which had 20% performance differences in CPU heavy areas.
Holy shit, it was that high??
DG2 also uses Enigma on top of that
Do you have any proof of those 20% performance impact for hogwarts legacy? Because when I tested it myself at the time in Hogsmeade (where I was CPU bound all the time even with a 13900k) I couldn't measure any difference. It performed exactly the same for me (pirated version vs. steam version). I honestly don't believe Denuvo is a big deal anymore, developers should just optimize their fucking games.
@@ViktorVelkov sounds like you used day 1 crack vs patched steam version.
Of course there have been optimasations, still, denuvo causes problems and people always end up excusing them...
/watch?v=5y_bab5wtHY
@@daLiraX thanks that does look interesting. no actually I tested it in my first week before the first patches came out. but yea day 1 crack basically. And I will never excuse DRM protection because I absolutey think that piracy is a lack of service issue and punishing those who pay for the game is a bad solution. But I think developers should do a better job at optimization and that DRMs probably don't affect performance noticeably.
Very excited to play DD2 when it's on sale this holiday season and hopefully patched.
So an RTX 3070ti with i7 12700k would be considered obsolete? One would think they could get at minimum 6 years out of that setup, not 2.
Careful, people on youtube and reddit will suddenly come out of woodworks to say that setup is "ancient" and "shouldnt be optimized to dinosaurs"
Close to what im running. Its playable on low graphics setting but still only 40-60FPS
I'm already getting people who have told me unironically that my system is midrange. 7800x3d + 3080 Ti.
My 3080 feels bad already
I mean , even when the game is optimized those 8g vram already shwoing age
Brought me back with that title. Glad for it.
Great video man! One of the few channels here on youtube i actually trust with information like this. Has been for a few years now. Cheers! 👍
@GamersNexus do you know when the PresentMon v2.0 is gonna come out? can't wait to test it out
do you guys ever get contacted to provide consulting to developers prior to a release? it seems like there’s a ton of valuable information they could go off of from all your testing
Thx for the effort to shine a light on this subject