The convert Green to THP should be his third passive perk and not a talent. Making it a talent would be unfair to the other two talents in that row since they would never be able to compete, and it would screw over low level players since they wouldn't have access to it at first and they'd have to suffer through playing zealot without it for a time.
100% agree, otherwise you are going to have the same issue that pyromancer has with picking "the volans doctrine" talent, which is a must pick for her and basically prevents her from taking advantage of the other two talents.
I'd vote to have it be his new Ult so instead of a dash and a 5 second attack speed increase (which I hate...) he can just whip himself or something, make it more interesting.
Having a passive perk where all external source of hp is converted to thp, this way you can still heal yourself if you want to and its easier for new players to understand how to play zealot as well.
Agreed, I like Zealot because he is a "high risk high reward" career, I could say he quite similar in idea with Krieg from Borderlands 2. Problem is, the "risk" is his team, especialy the elf with that talent that passively heals everyone. Good for everyone, EXCEPT him.
If they gave Zealot just a "flagellate" button where he pulls out like a cat-o'-nine-tails and whips himself in the back for like a quarter of his heath and replaces it with THP he'd be so much better. It doesn't even have to be that complicated, they can just use the flail model for something like that. The THP gained for sacrificing green hp could be affected by healing boosts from boon and or Sister of The Thorn, it just seems so thematically correct for a Zealot to whip himself before the heat of battle and charge in only being held together by faith and adrenaline. Hell it can even be when he charges he whips himself and that's what provokes the rush and the buff after. I genuinely don't think it would be that hard to too and it'd fit the theme very well.
honestly you mention giving him a flagellate button, you mention to use the flail...make it the flails weapon special, or ZEALOTS Weapon Special to just hit himself with any weapon
They already have so many special attacks on weapons, why not give all his melee weapon this special, that would be so fitting for the career as a whole.
I think the way Fat Shark was thinking when designing Zealot was, they expected the players to play as tanks, taking blows for others and rewarding you by increasing your defensive abilities and power, but people ended up using the class as a Berserker, actively lowering their HP to grow strong fast. Some ideas I have for Zealot are: -He could be absorbing some damage teammates around him take, something like 10-20%, but that absorbed damage cannot down him, kinda like Implacable for Warrior Priest. -He could have different buffs depending on his HP stat, like, more green gives more defense while temp is more power. -He could have a status that, any HP he gets from other players gets converted to temp HP. -He could have his temp HP decay thrice as slow, allowing him to keep his temp HP longer in between fights. This one is a stretch but, -He could negate most damage depending on his temp health, like, damage that would take his temp HP + Green HP, it only takes his temp HP. Just trying to give a reason why a Zealot would want some green HP and not say yolo and quickly lose his green HP
I really like the ally idea, I'd probably run that on him constantly. My weird idea is that maybe Zealot takes green HP damage before THP/white HP? It'd make stacking less bothersome and doesn't get impacted too much by your allies healing you (Or rather, if they do, it'svway easier to deal with!).
Yeah, Zealot’s mechanic always seemed to me to fit better with Slayer, as in tabletop, and in Total War slayer characters do more damage the closer they are to death.
I've really enjoyed playing zealot in chaos wastes, but that's basically just because I run smite, completely ignore purposefully getting stacks on him, and just focusing on how hard to kill he is. If I take damage, oh well, I've gotten a bunch of stacks, so I'll do more damage and kill things faster. If I don't take much damage... well, I haven't taken much damage, which means I'm staying alive longer to kill more things. So if ignoring a character's primary mechanic is the best way to play him... there probably needs to be a rework of some kind
Maybe we're just looking at it wrong: what if the zealot is a tank with the ability to put out more damage when things get dicey? Maybe activity trying to keep your health very low to maximize damage is not necessary or even good, as you said if you're not getting low, you're already doing fine
It'd be pretty genius if there was a talent where every single piece of green HP is turned into temp HP, even starting from a match, makes you have an actual use of GK and all the others Great suggestion btw man!
My man is a visionary ! All this temp health setup is the reason why I almost played only alone since I went on PC, it's often embarrasing when you play with people who don't know how to play with a Zealot. Having your stacks at the beginning is a kind of weird ritual he has to do EACH game. I really hope Fatshark will notice your video and do something about it. If they apply what you say there will be more reason to take Flagellant Zeal and forget the "feel nothing" perk. Glad you did this video, have a blessed day !
Absolutely agreed. Seems like the design people had a good idea for a gameplay mechanic once but nobody told them nor even realized the implications of implementing them. They just rolled with it and it was up to you and randos from reddit to point out the glaring issues. Zealot was designed "in a vacuum".
Meanwhile i am still sitting here waiting for bardin slayer to get crit chance or power as he gets low hp.... The clas that is supposed to seek death, not synergizing with death...
@@JaJagimpjelterosso not complaining that slayer is not strong or enjoyable, i am complaining he does not interact with the core concept of slayers, they seek a glorious and hard death, and they get more dangerous the closer to death they are, and that does not appear in the gameplay, just disappointing from a loretogameplay design, the game per se is totally fine
This reminds me of a match i had a few weeks ago. Me and my friend both play zealot sometimes and we usually help eachother with stacks by shooting the zealot because we both understand how important it is to have stacks on him. So this time i was playing i think dwarf and my friend was playing elf and this zealot joins us, this was on legend halescourge. Obviously he spawns with almost a full bar of green so as a common courtesy my friend chunks him with some javelins to make sure he gets his stacks. We've had plenty of teammates on both legend and mostly on cata who do this to us too because we all understand how zealot works. Anyway, this random zealot didn't get the memo and full repeaterblasts my friend into a downed state and starts shooting him whilst downed, i quickly vote to kick him and the other random (a GK) also votes to kick him. Look, i get that FF is not appreciated but on zealot, atleast when i play him and i have full green hp, it is. Please just read your damn passives and talents before you start playing a new career, on legend i somewhat expect you to know what every career does. The fact that i still need to explain to some people that you should not heal a zealot on legend is insane to me.
I met a guy on choas wasts that complained about me, zealot, getting hit purpusfully. He even started voting to kick me out. And he had 1000h in this game 🤦♂️
i have seen players who want to play zealot full green life... yes... i know... i response to him "utility to play full green life zealot when you can play footknight ?" no anwser lol
Purposefully injuring yourself is lame. A true zealot gains strength through the wounds incurred during righteous slaughter in the name of Sigmar, not through allowing a stinky elf to hurt your holy body while she snickers. If a zealot finishes his mission without injury then that is all the more glory, for he never needed the extra strength to finish the tasks set before him. If i joined a game and some random doods thought they knew better than me how I want to play my game and started shooting me I'd be pissed off too. That zealot was right, you were wrong. And being patronizing and assuming "he just doesnt know how to play!!" is quite sad.
I agree with everything in the video, but personally i think we can go even further. Imo his career skill doesnt really fit that well. His abilities he gets from low hp are his main gimmick, and imo he needs an ability to match. Perhaps a sort of "self-damage" ability, where his health is lowered just enough to proc all of his abilities, and he gains invuln for maybe 5 seconds. Could even have a neat animation where he either whips himself or slices himself with a knife saying "by the blood of the righteous the impure are struck down!" Or something like that.
i always use the fire barrel to get my stacks. its prob one of my fav classes on legend. its basically a "throw-the-game-and-go-raw" character. it makes the game really ez as you can melt all enemies besides CW. i use Falchion + walk speed boost because the third light attack is an overhead for ez SV headshots. Falchion also has armor penetration (for SV, not for CW)
Zealot, to me, suffers from the equal but opposite problem the Doc class in Aliens Fireteam did. Doc has a health station that gradually heals allies in a small radius. It required Doc to pick up medkits to refill the battery on it. Now they made it to where anyone can pick up a medkit and it refills it for him (which is way better). Zealot gets punished for allies being generous (even through ignorance) because that's how he's built. I like your suggestion of Zealot converting all permanent health to temp health. I think that would jump start his effectiveness from the get-go without all the hassle and gambling involved currently. It's a razor's edge between getting max stacks and going down.
I always thought he should have a 3rd passive "can no longer earn Green HP" Then for level 10 Castigate should be added to his base kit. (lets be real who uses the other 2) That would free up a row that could become dedicated to his THP I thought maybe the new Talents could exist like this: THP no longer decays, Start the game with full THP, When your cheat death passive expires gain 25% THP I think if they were to change/add a passive they should make some of the talents interact with it.
THP not decaying would be ridiculously broken and would make it no different to green health at that point. Making it decay a little slower would be ok but you already generate a ridiculous amount of THP as Zealot.
I'm going to make another point. I play Zealot almost exclusively, with many, many hundreds of hours on every possible difficulty. Zealot really shines as an _anchor,_ a *support class.* He can spec tanky and still out class the other characters in damage in many situations. He can dash in and out of hordes to save fallen comrades, fuck up armor and shield users, take out specials from a distance, be the "last man standing" to save a run, and _still_ take more of a beating than the others when going toe to toe with bosses. A good Saltzpyre will not hunt for the green circles on the debriefing screen, a good Saltzpyre will make sure that everyone makes it to the gate at the end of the run, and none of the other four are quite as good at that as he is. _That's_ how Zealot should be played... let the kerillian shoot for damage, just be there to pick her up when she inevitably eats a mauler axe in the back. :)
The Zealot is my main class I play, and while I agree that he doesn't synergize with other characters well, I don't think you NEED to lower your health to play him well. Like any other character in the game, you should never take damage. It's the goal of game. Sure, the Zealot can become much more powerful on low HP, but I personally never try to do this. I play him like any other character, trying to not get hurt, and if I do, it's not a big deal because he gets more powerful any heals with THP pretty quickly. There are plenty of other classes that attack much slower than a full HP Zealot. The goal is to survive and help the team, not get the most damage and kills. I like your thoughts on changing some of his talents. I think a number of them just aren't useful or interesting. There's a pretty clear choice on many of his talents, which isn't as fun.
You should do a pyromancer rework video. Would very much like to see that as she definitely needs something. One big thing i think they should do is change the volans doctrine talent to being a passive (similar to unchained). Her ability of extra crit chance kinda relies on her not taking this disadvantage at overcharge so this talent is basically a must pick. She also only currently has one passive anyways so i dont think changing this would be a problem. Maybe also another passive that reduces venting damage or faster venting as i feel with pyromancer it is a constant balancing act do prevent overheating. I also think that they should drop all of the talents that remove or pause her overcharge as that kinda contradicts her critical mass gain (if you really want to shoot ranged for longer you can just use heat sink as a better alternative). In its place they should instead focus more on talents that are based off her critical mass passive (eg: extra critical strike damage based on critical mass stacks etc). She already has a talent that are based off her critical mass stack (one with the flame) so why not make more of them or rework on the precipice and fleetflame to be dependant on critical mass stacks. Pyromancer in a way can be similar to zealot (accumulating critical mass stacks vs fiery flame stacks to enhance stats) but a lot more controlled in her resource management.
My idea of her base ult should guarenteed crit, then when it crits it spits into 2 more skulls but at half the power, these 2 skulls have independant crit rolls, if they don't crit, they go till they are finished, if either or both crit, they split but again at half the power, this is to make it non exponential in something like twitch mode Guarenteed crit mode, there also can be a cap of how many skulls it can split up into, say 5 total levels of split.
@@prich0382 Interesting concept. However if they did this they would have to remove her blazing echo talent, otherwise you would always have infinite ult.
@@parmaunited Well yeah pretty much the 3 Level 30 Talents would need to be changed to fit around this new Ult, it's so different that they have to be changed
Chaos wastes has so many ways to randomly grant healing that it's always felt to me like I'm being punished for spending my coins on a random boon as Zealot. Oh great, now I have natural bond and am just weaker for the rest of the game AND I'm out 200 coins. Thanks game...
Just don't take the risk, don't use Zealot, some charcters are just not recommended in Chaos Wastes, he is right down the bottom of characters you should pick
Lets hope fatshark hears this, the points you made were perfect. Engi is another one who needs a rework, pressure should go down by one at a time you shouldn't lose a stack by missing one crank. His defence is bad but its paired with the fact he needs a babysitter 9 times out of 10 he should have one or the other not both negative traits, and his health pool allows him to make 1-2 aggressive plays, clutch, survive or just make a mistake. He should have bad defence as he is range heavy but maby don't have a dodge limit on the crank gun or give it dual axe dodge range so your rewarded for using the crank gun without team mates rather than just take dmg or don't crank at all.
The most fun I've ever had with engineer is in chaos wastes when I ran the talent that makes it so you don't lose stacks when reaching full charge or firing, and got a boon with the talent that makes it so you have only 4 stacks but you don't lose them over time. It effectively meant I had permanent 4 stacks no matter what, and it made the gameplay feel a million times more fluid because my ult would just regenerate by itself when I was doing other stuff without worrying about micromanaging. I can't go back to playing engineer regularly after that
@@adc1222 iv had this "loadout" for lack of a better term, and it was everything engi needed to feel usefull by himself. Tbh its what made me see more flaws with engi than i had originally seen.
Biggest zealot I face are ranged careers killing ambient (especially elite) mobs when you are just entering melee range and swinging (cuz muh green circles) and parties that will chain steal kills from you when you've just gotten yourself down for 6 stacks and are at 0 THP trying to build a life bar. That and going too long between fights of course.
The trait “Natural Bond” on necklaces converts healing from draughts and kits into THP, but unfortunately the caveat is that it regenerates 1 health every five seconds.
I think the biggest problem I have now this is not always going to happen and it will only occur on very specific circumstances but when you have GK in the team with regen health no matter what version whether it's normal health regen or improved it completely undermines Zealots main purpose now like I said it's very situational but when it happens it is very annoying
The only thing I can think of that would functionally fit is for Zealot to always spawn with some sort of item in his healing slot. Left and right click with it out would do nothing, but special weapon attack would convert health into temporary health. Picking up healing would stack over the item(think OE bombs) and take priority, but only Zealot can use special weapon attack with healing items to convert health into temp health.
I've tried playing as zealot, but it always felt off since I don't really understand the career other than take damage and make thp, fortunately, I won't have to worry about that as wp is a thing
no thoughts on zealot but perhaps just a feedback for ur videos? they're great but it would be really helpful if u show the talent and their description on screen when u talk about them; i know u read them out now (u didnt use to, if i recall correctly) which is great but a lot of viewers might find it easier to follow along if there's something visual to use :-)
I play Zealot and Unchained with what I would call a "flow mechanic". Meaning that I do put natural bond on the Zealot, but I dont take damage on purpose to build the stack. I just play. The better I fight, the less damage output I need. The more mistake I do, the more damage I do and if I perform better. I will get my health back up anyway or at least have just enough health at the time to survive a hit. With Unchained it is similar, but with the heat mechanic. I build up heat to do more damage, but I also have the "block to reduce" heat to balance it so that I have just high enough heat in order to not trigger the overheat on getting hit once by regular forces. Emergency backup is the special to reduce heat and concoction to build it back up again with any potion. Point is, you wont have frustrations if you play these two characters like this instead of expecting to have max damage output at all times, even when you dont technically need it because you are on your A game. Otherwise I would choose another character than a "flow" type tbh.
I think its hilarious when anyone suggests a rework as if fatshark will change anything. Also Zealot is my fav class even though its a pain, his benefits outweigh that pain
Thank you for agreeing with me that he needs a rework I always say he needs a rework and people respond with "Hes fine as he is, I think hes the best saltz clas, hes pretty easy to use" All of these are horrendously wrong, the only thing he really is is noob friendly and thats only if they read what he does and can understand it. As you pointed out he has talents but 80% of them are basically useless in most situations as the others can and will preform better, The 1st thing is the health convert. historically priest flagellate themselves as part of religious discipline. (can be for horny but our boy is only for sigmar) Zealot can have this as like sienna's overheat bar or SoT's Staff, when you have a melee weapon out you can hold R to start hitting yourself to turn hp into temp. 2nd thing As a passive trait which im still under the opinion that unswerving strikes should be changed, should be where he doesnt lose any temphp at all. This lets him deal with team healing and wounds while being able to stay in the white without it being a hassle. 3rd thing the talents - I like the unbending purpose idea id be more inclined to use that over just castigate, For Calloused line I exclusively use devotion simply because it removes slowdown from being hit and lets you move faster so you ignore the biggest issue zealot has when trying to fight waves, getting a 15-20% attack speed buff on hit would be a nice but I find Devotion to good to change to any other talent, a nice idea would to make it so zealot ignores hit slowdown as a passive and keep the 30% move speed bonus but make it 5 seconds as to keep the talent their and allowing freedom of choice over obvious picks like wayback when we had flagellant talent. For Faiths flurry, personally Id make it a 5% attack speed or even 10% attack speed per hit stacking up to 10 giving you either 50% more attack speed or 100%, I always found it strange that it worked the way it did while being called a flurry since I associate that word in games with attack speed over power, Though this is personal preference.
His Career skill needs to get changed, everyone else's skill feels impactful and does something useful even when it's only with talents, but his? He charges forward and get's attack speed and gets X bonus based on talent, yay? I guess it could still stay as a somewhat useful self buffing ult skill but even then it needs the charge aspect removed, 99.99% of the time anyone uses this cancels the charge anyway since it doesn't knock down the way Footknight's charge does and most of the time it would either get you killed in a horde or just run you off of a cliff, on top of, charging in and repositioning takes so much time the buff almost wears off by that point or you have to block not to get killed.... This was somewhat useful because he did have a talent so he got temp HP for every enemy he hit with his charge but that got removed so now it's worthless to have this function on his ult aside from the extreme niche use of dash reviving. I loved playing Zealot before this whole talent overhaul thing, he felt waaaay more powerful but they tried changing him into something he is not... TL;DR His career skill needs an overhaul, charge aspect is useless and just causes trouble.
This may be a strange thought, but I personally believe there should be the option for a lot of careers to have the choice of either having melee and ranged weapons or to just go full melee. Careers like Zealot, Foot Knight and Shade in particular. Zealot, because he is supposed to be a powerhouse of a melee fighter, so I think that having the choice of taking both a horde clearing weapon and an armor-piercing/burst damage weapon into missions is pretty cool. For Foot Knight it comes more from the fact that Kruber's ranged weapons aren't a lot of fun, and I imagine FK to be always in the thick of it swinging a giant sword or protecting his team with a shield. Sure, there may be a bit of overlap with Grail Knight, but bear in mind that Grail Knight is a damage dealing powerhouse, whereas FK is supposed be someone who cuts through hordes like a knife through butter thanks to his career ability. Shade, simply because most people love the idea of running dual daggers, but they also love the idea of staying alive, so they just run sword+dagger lmao.
Problem with this is that you risk for multiplayer having matches of either full melee or barely ranged which on high difficulty or at all is very risky, heck we already have 3 careers that don't have ranged, so you can already know what I'm talking about especially if we get a fourth. No offense obviously, it's a good idea but the execution for multiplayer isn't going to work.
@@dramaticmudderer5208 Oh yeah, totally, I know for a fact that this would screw up a lot of games especially in random matches. But a lot of careers would really see their true potential with such a change. It would probably never happen tho.
@@KRIMZONMEKANISM Yeah sadly it was a good idea though (plus since we already have 3 careers with only melee it might not matter much if your idea was executed though since it basically is the same but different carrers now that I think about it, shade would be op though), for now though, modded realm is the only way.
i have always felt like zealot is a big risk and reward career so i have always wanted to see something to do with deaths door, maybe more power or attack speed idk but i totally agree that zealot is more of a hassle than a career you just pop and play. a talent that maybe makes all healing including natural bond and waystalkers heal gets turned into temp health with a slower temp health decay, i feel like that could make a lot of healing boons in the chaos wastes really good, i also feel like zealot is extremely new player unfriendly since like you said a lot of people me included when i started playing will just run natural bond and heal when you don't need to because you just kinda wanna see what this career does, it makes all of those players go "this is bad because yada yada" and then never play zealot until 100 or so hours in, i also feel like they could remake talents into different ults, like maybe a small aoe that staggers enemies instead of a dash forward because the dash is a bit too situational and you end up canceling the dash anyways. anyway thank you for coming to my ted talk i love you -kiss kiss-
You forgot to mention when bots heal you if they have medkit, or the fact that you cant buy random boons in Chaos Wastes cuz of all the healing boons the game has....He definetly needs some change
Wet, please do the build I suggested on your last video! I want to hear your thoughts on it. Regardless, yea I agree with your points in this video. Flagelant is the guy that says: "I'm not stuck here with you, chaos patrol, you're the ones stuck here with me" and not all of his talents fit that. Oh well, have a good day
payday 2 did a similar thing, the way the ended up handling it was having a capstone talent "frenzy" which capped your maximum hp at 30%, (it also granted some damage resistence which is probably unnecessary here) but really i don't see any reason zealot can't have a talent that just says "your hp is capped at x" full stop. maybe even just roll that into some other talent that benefits from low hp.
Honestly I'd just give him as a passive that he regenerates and heals thp intead of green hp. Additionally or alternatively just make him loose green hp before white hp to make self harm that much more pleasurable :D
SOTT, moonfirebow and Javelin trivializing enemies. GK deleting bosses. Fatshark: Nerf axe and falchion and Slayer's duel axes! Those weapons are too good compared to the other weapons in their classes! Me: Seriously WTF are you doing!?
Your Callous from within and without proposal is a good one, however I feel that your temp health converter idea needs a little more tweaking. Allow me to explain myself.: As far as an item just being standardized for converting health to thp to be a generalized item drop, it would be a rather niche use-case and wouldn’t really see much use outside of Zealot. I believe it would better serve as a class specific spawning pickup along the lines of ranger vet’s little ammo caches. That, or a mechanic they could introduce where pressing R while having your melee weapon out would have Saltzpyre produce a cat o’ nine tails-like whip and begin engaging in self-flagellation as a form of grotesque self-repentance to Sigmar. I think it would fit very well within who Saltzpyre is as a character. This mechanic would drive down his health chip by chip or perhaps just convert health to thp chip by chip.
Honestly I used to use zealot as a “book hunters” main because if you are playing on legend and running books and grimoires you need a person to rely on to clutch the game if needed. and grimoires also could work well with zealot due to health reduction (maybe) but with the release of WPOS, zealot was literally crushed from his place (and for the better) as WPOS has literally 100% curse resistance and can protect people with his carrier skill. He has so much defense that he is better than zealot. So now zealot has no purpose to me and he probably doesn’t even have a fighting chance because WPOS is way better. So maybe if he did get a rework I may have a reason to play zealot, other than that, that was my view on this
I think the Faith's flurry talent should go and be replaced with something like when he charges he looses 80% health and like all damage or 80% damage he takes turns into temp health but everyone is just going to take that talent so idk Grail Knight has this interesting thing when he takes damage it becomes temp health after a couple of seconds so ye
I don't see reason for the stretch. Simply make him immune to any form of heal from where ever it's coming except medical supplies (the medipacs) he uses on himself. Every other healing on him simply won't work. That way you can be on grey health all you want and if you really mean to heal up after getting downed to regain your 2nd life, you gonna do it yourself. Natural Bond would be perfect this way even because now instead of regenerating him, he only gets the 'heal is TempHP' bonus out of it and you can full Thp heal yourself with draughts.
There is no problem to get the stacks ... just don't check your back for a while, the "one rat" is always there and ready to hit you half second after you checked it :D Or just fight infront of Sienna (regardless of career), Huntsman or Waystalker. They will "help you" get the stacks :D The talents could use some tweaking, but this is the *same case with half (if not all)* of the careers. There is always line of talents in which there are the one talent, that is better and the one, that is worse. This is because it is so difficult to balance it for different difficulties and diffirent stats and buffs. I do not believe, that Fatshark will even atempt to balance it "ideally". And i would seriously recommend them to not even try it, waste of time. You can never "repair" talents ideally. Let them focus on something more important.
Whilst we're at it, could we also address the absolute hassle it is for people that don't have an unholy stockpile of red powder to try and arm yourself with DLC weapons since DLC weapons do not drop for owners of said DLCs in chests? I mean, Warrior Priest is just a nuisance in that regard. Not really the person to have played enough to have huge stocks of materials, so getting a few orange weapons were already annoying, but sufferable. But when you only get 1 red dust pile per red item salvaged, that's gonna take a while. Not that it's impossibly long, but I personally find it unfairly tedious when you use alot of DLC weapons, such as Handmaiden Spear&Shield, Javelin, Billhook, Griffonfoot, Bretonnian S&S, and people that might end up maining Warrior Priest, since he just literally has no other option than to build all his crap himself.
I don't see the issue here. I see the stacks as an added bonus that I get when I eventually take damage. Nice to have when I screw up, but definitely not required. I feel like that's how Fatshark intended it.
The design of "having less health = more dmg" isn't necessarily the issue, it's the fact that's not communicated to the team if they don't know the Zealot mechanics. If he still has temp health, and the dmg buff given is dependent on his green health, then he gets the best of both worlds with high dmg and high health, it's just most of it is temp health. That's too OP in my opinion, but I don't think there's really a way to communicate this mechanic at all.
unfortunately his current kit pigeonholes the design choice to "make all green hp always become thp" or removing the stacks and changing his identity with a "buff me by swapping green for temp hp" which kinda sucks but that's the identity that most people already know zealots or fanatics in general to be.
I think Unchained is in a way worse spot. I can actually play and understand Zealot. Unchained is just hitting your breaking point and asking to die twice. Sidenote, if you want to lose HP on zealot, just play cataclysm. You'll get there one way or another.
They also need to make it that in chaos wastes stacks can go above 6 OP yes, but why else are you playing chaos wastes if not to get incredibly broken builds? Also I belive the whole "Green to THP" Should either be a % ammount of green HP gained is converted to white or any healing zealot recieves will be green up until he would start to loose a stack of fiery faith, making the rest white, because the constant fear that you may just bleed to 1hp over time sounds anxiety inducing
I think he should have a passive or talent "Living Sacrifice" or "Willing Sacrifice" that would keep his health low ,like Grims do, but increase his dmg resists , or that it would scale: more hp he has more dmg he takes, less hp ,less dmg taken . but healing disabling is tricky . maybe an effect he could activate by doing something ?
Dude it already exists, it's called Armour of Faith, 30% Damage Reduction at 6 stacks in a standerd build + Boon of Shallya is better then Holy Fortitude + Barkskin. Your THP generation is +85% effectively vs +90% of HF build but you have also effectively have 257 HP vs 180 on HF build.
@@prich0382 Wait, huh? Where did you 85%? With boon you only get 30 and maybe with sister you get 55%, sorry if this is a dumb question but I'm confused.
@@dramaticmudderer5208 Sigh because permanent Damage Reduction increases your effective health... 30% DR is a +~43% increase in Health, so that means also an increase in effective THP generation, so combined with Boon of Shallya it's multiplicative which is ~1.43 x 1.3 = ~1.85. Imagine you have permanent 90% DR, your effective health is 10 times higher, but your THP generation is 1 per hit, which means it's effectively 10 THP per hit... See how that works? Magic called maths. (100÷70)×1.3 = 1.857142857142. Might even be 186% overall, not sure how the game handles rounding.
playing zealot on very high difficulties, high weaves, dwons, FoW, he is strong, i dont really think he needs a rework, (only thing i am missing is a build variety, coz weave, FoW build is pretty much volley crossbow build, dwons is just meta and official QP is just whatever build works and u can still win.) if there could be something that changes his green HP to temp. HP that would be welcomed. btw playing zealot on green HP is possible, but you are throwing away soo much potencial of that career, his passive, etc.
I like Zealot if you manage to get temp health high enough to not get one shotted. And, getting stacks doesnt feel worth it. I rather play Warrior Priest one handed and shield build.
This is just my thoughts on Zealot. As fun as the stacks from low health are, the way it works out in gameplay because of temp health isn't great to me. Like, unchained can manage overcharge in a way makes you balance risk vs reward. High overcharge increases damage but increases the risk of overheating. Zealot on the other hand is just about taking the green health down low to get max stacks and then fill up with temp health. Then you just play and never think about it again. There is hardly any reason to not do that and allways have max stacks. That doesn't seem right to me. If it works like that then why not just make it so that Zealot allways has the benefits of max stacks and can't have green health? That's how it ends up working when I play anyway. I think it is a boring interaction that needs to change into something more dynamic and interesting to play. Kinda like how unchained works again. I'm not sure how it should be for Zealot though and I don't mean it should be exactly like unchained. I just want something more interesting.
They probly just dont intend for players to "get their stacks" everytime. A game developer makes design choices based on how it reads (lorewise) and how it plays. They dont design a game based on the 5% of the player base who wants to maximise every minute detail to get the absoulute full potential out of a class...especially not in a team based pve game. The zealot is a flagellant, so lore wise he charges in with recklessness because he knows god wont let him die and if god does let him die he will be rewarded. So ingame I think they intended him for the more aggressive types whod rather swing instead of blocking half the time, giving them a batshit crazy melee class that benefits rather than burdens when he takes hard damage. I really doubt they want people running around taking specific damage befopre everypull it was designed for the leroy jenkins types. Im not against a rework but dont think its that nessacary. Tweaks mabey.
Whenever I attempt to play Zealot at the cata level, I always come to the conclusion: I could be playing Unchained right now. Both classes are a high risk high reward archetype, but I feel Zealot is less flexible when making builds and has less payoff when compared to Unchained. If I were to change anything, I’d consider buffing Zealot’s stacks to a comparable level of Unchained’s. Up from 5% power to 10%. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s the impression I have after playing both classes extensively.
ok for real how the hell do you obtain the helmet that apears on the thumbnail of the video? it looks so cool for zealot but i cannot find any way to obtain it.
why not just play him like normal more tanky character instead of purposefully lowering your health to be a risky damage dealer? I only play on legendary and not cataclysm but does he really need all stacks off the bat? Isn't it fine to simply be a tankier person that is given compensation for frontlining?
Passive increasing damage received and attack speed the longer he won't take any but dramatically decreasing subsequent hits (like a super stoneskin) making him lose the bonus. Increased stagger versus enemies that dealt him damage recently. Damage received is stored in a counter that buffs his next attack after ult.
I'd love to see Zealot getting a charging bar that behaved like an Unchained's bar, but the higher that bar gets not only des the Zealot get increased dmg, but they take increased dmg, so this would offset still having high health. For example having the bar maxed to 100% means you get 1 shot. So it's a similar risk vs reward as before, you get high dmg but if you get hit your dead.
...simply giving him a passive that gives him temp health instead of green health would still make him unique. I love zealot he's one of my favorite careers but even I have to admit he needs a rework.
I never understood the temp health strategy. If you're doing well, you don't *need* the stacks, and a weakened Saltspyre can be a liability for the team. For my play style, the stacks always served as a cushion for when things started to go sideways, but never as a primary source of potency.
What? Cus you don't have a deep understanding of the game mechanics you don't understand??? The 30% Power Boost can help your Crossbow hit Breakpoints, also great for Griffen-Foot build to boost Hoard and Unarmoured Elites clear speed. The stacks are crucial to a well played type of play style. The Attack speed bost too for Castigate is super good too. This class is amazing, also the Griffen Foot movement speed build is hands down the best character in the game for doing something like Weekly Event Twins with Bomb Rats which drop ammo, no other character comes close to the amount of damage you can dish out, it's disgusting honestly. Also works well in Modded difficulties with more specials or doing Specials Deed with a Ranger Vet to feed you. This character literally needs no changes.
@@prich0382 I've played Saltzpyre exclusively since launch. The low health method is high-risk high-reward, and I have used it. I don't like it, I did consistently better at end game runs using other builds, and more importantly, my team did not wipe because I fucked up a single block. You can say "you suck you suck" all you want, but I guarantee, _you know exactly what I'm talking about._ I agree with you on one point though: old One Eye is the best, and I don't think he needs to be changed either. ;)
@@Sceptis How is it high risk? Green health and White health are the same, it's just white decays, there is more then enough enemies to sustain it lol, there is no difference at being for example 30 HP with green health or 30 HP in White health only, absolutily no difference. I don't agree with Wet Magic opinioon on it being a hassle, it's only a hassle in something like harder, Better, Faster, Stronger where elites are jacked up, but you just have to adjust play style
@@prich0382 Brother, believe me, I know how this style works, I've used it a lot. I found my way to be far more consistent in the long run. For my group, playing tank/support Zealot fits much better as a team oriented build.
@@Sceptis Yeah, it makes since why fatshark used to have him have talents that were similar to footknight or even iron breaker because zealot is supposed to be the tank career in saltzpyres row(warrior priest is a different kind of tank but also is more based on support) then they added the new talents and made him just as if not more tanky than before, his weapons are good enough to deal without stacks, if anything to me he's a tank that unlike others gets better the less health he has
So simply you are just pissed others can fuck you up by healing and changing talents into fucking imba what Zealot already is in right hands. So either you want him MORE powerfull (which is stupid as he is already really good in right hands) or you dont know how to play him and you wanna "fix" him in best way suited to you. Wont happend. Learn him or dont play him. And for others? Yea it suck that what happend in COOP games if you meet dickheads. EDIT: Also why to let him Convert HP into Temp HP? War Priest also have to build up his passive during fight as Zealot have to build up his stacks, as everyone have to crit to make his so called "stack" (Attack speed proc. on weapons) Zealot have literally easiest Stack gen and even if you calculate it badly and overkill yourself? PASSIVE! So its literally easiest stack gen - just get hurt thats all.
![[Updated] Melee Weapon Tier List - Victor Saltzpyre](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0o6TrNU0KmA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Updated] Melee Weapon Tier List - Victor Saltzpyre](/img/tr.png)
The convert Green to THP should be his third passive perk and not a talent. Making it a talent would be unfair to the other two talents in that row since they would never be able to compete, and it would screw over low level players since they wouldn't have access to it at first and they'd have to suffer through playing zealot without it for a time.
Or maybe whenever he ults all his green health is converted
Yea that’s the way I was leaning as well.
100% agree, otherwise you are going to have the same issue that pyromancer has with picking "the volans doctrine" talent, which is a must pick for her and basically prevents her from taking advantage of the other two talents.
I think a self flagellation whip would be nice.
I'd vote to have it be his new Ult so instead of a dash and a 5 second attack speed increase (which I hate...) he can just whip himself or something, make it more interesting.
Having a passive perk where all external source of hp is converted to thp, this way you can still heal yourself if you want to and its easier for new players to understand how to play zealot as well.
That’s a really good idea also.
The vast majority of players are on champion/legend these days, there's not a lot of new players
Not to mention the bots
@@dearcastiel4667 speak for yourself, i’m new and have run into quite a lot of new players
Agreed, I like Zealot because he is a "high risk high reward" career, I could say he quite similar in idea with Krieg from Borderlands 2.
Problem is, the "risk" is his team, especialy the elf with that talent that passively heals everyone. Good for everyone, EXCEPT him.
If they gave Zealot just a "flagellate" button where he pulls out like a cat-o'-nine-tails and whips himself in the back for like a quarter of his heath and replaces it with THP he'd be so much better. It doesn't even have to be that complicated, they can just use the flail model for something like that. The THP gained for sacrificing green hp could be affected by healing boosts from boon and or Sister of The Thorn, it just seems so thematically correct for a Zealot to whip himself before the heat of battle and charge in only being held together by faith and adrenaline.
Hell it can even be when he charges he whips himself and that's what provokes the rush and the buff after. I genuinely don't think it would be that hard to too and it'd fit the theme very well.
honestly you mention giving him a flagellate button, you mention to use the flail...make it the flails weapon special, or ZEALOTS Weapon Special to just hit himself with any weapon
@@meganobgutzkraka2398 What about billhook and great hammer?
@@benyed1636 he's a flaggellant i think he'd hit himself with damn near anything tbh
@@meganobgutzkraka2398The weapon special button already does things with those weapons.
They already have so many special attacks on weapons, why not give all his melee weapon this special, that would be so fitting for the career as a whole.
Proposition: don’t worry about purposely lowering your health, just dive into every horde you can find and you’ll be fine. That’s what I always do
Yeah honestly, you'll take damage naturally so why not
I think the way Fat Shark was thinking when designing Zealot was, they expected the players to play as tanks, taking blows for others and rewarding you by increasing your defensive abilities and power, but people ended up using the class as a Berserker, actively lowering their HP to grow strong fast.
Some ideas I have for Zealot are:
-He could be absorbing some damage teammates around him take, something like 10-20%, but that absorbed damage cannot down him, kinda like Implacable for Warrior Priest.
-He could have different buffs depending on his HP stat, like, more green gives more defense while temp is more power.
-He could have a status that, any HP he gets from other players gets converted to temp HP.
-He could have his temp HP decay thrice as slow, allowing him to keep his temp HP longer in between fights.
This one is a stretch but,
-He could negate most damage depending on his temp health, like, damage that would take his temp HP + Green HP, it only takes his temp HP.
Just trying to give a reason why a Zealot would want some green HP and not say yolo and quickly lose his green HP
But it would make zero sense to not want to keep 6 stacks all the time lol, of course we want to be low health
I really like the ally idea, I'd probably run that on him constantly.
My weird idea is that maybe Zealot takes green HP damage before THP/white HP? It'd make stacking less bothersome and doesn't get impacted too much by your allies healing you (Or rather, if they do, it'svway easier to deal with!).
Yeah, Zealot’s mechanic always seemed to me to fit better with Slayer, as in tabletop, and in Total War slayer characters do more damage the closer they are to death.
I've really enjoyed playing zealot in chaos wastes, but that's basically just because I run smite, completely ignore purposefully getting stacks on him, and just focusing on how hard to kill he is. If I take damage, oh well, I've gotten a bunch of stacks, so I'll do more damage and kill things faster. If I don't take much damage... well, I haven't taken much damage, which means I'm staying alive longer to kill more things.
So if ignoring a character's primary mechanic is the best way to play him... there probably needs to be a rework of some kind
Maybe we're just looking at it wrong: what if the zealot is a tank with the ability to put out more damage when things get dicey? Maybe activity trying to keep your health very low to maximize damage is not necessary or even good, as you said if you're not getting low, you're already doing fine
@@altromonte15 You hit it right on the nose. This is how I play Saltzpyre, and it's served me very well.
That's how I've been playing him in general too. Geting to desired HP is too much of a bother so I just don't bother.
@@altromonte15 correct
@@altromonte15 top tier take, love this
It'd be pretty genius if there was a talent where every single piece of green HP is turned into temp HP, even starting from a match, makes you have an actual use of GK and all the others
Great suggestion btw man!
he should just be able to do a "vent" like animation by reloading with his melee weapon out, thus transferring his green to THP
My man is a visionary ! All this temp health setup is the reason why I almost played only alone since I went on PC, it's often embarrasing when you play with people who don't know how to play with a Zealot. Having your stacks at the beginning is a kind of weird ritual he has to do EACH game. I really hope Fatshark will notice your video and do something about it. If they apply what you say there will be more reason to take Flagellant Zeal and forget the "feel nothing" perk. Glad you did this video, have a blessed day !
Absolutely agreed. Seems like the design people had a good idea for a gameplay mechanic once but nobody told them nor even realized the implications of implementing them. They just rolled with it and it was up to you and randos from reddit to point out the glaring issues. Zealot was designed "in a vacuum".
Meanwhile i am still sitting here waiting for bardin slayer to get crit chance or power as he gets low hp.... The clas that is supposed to seek death, not synergizing with death...
Slayer is in a great spot. And trophy hunter kinda fits that scenario. Seek confrontation, smack/bonk confrontation, get rewarded with extra power.
@@JaJagimpjelterosso not complaining that slayer is not strong or enjoyable, i am complaining he does not interact with the core concept of slayers, they seek a glorious and hard death, and they get more dangerous the closer to death they are, and that does not appear in the gameplay, just disappointing from a loretogameplay design, the game per se is totally fine
This reminds me of a match i had a few weeks ago.
Me and my friend both play zealot sometimes and we usually help eachother with stacks by shooting the zealot because we both understand how important it is to have stacks on him.
So this time i was playing i think dwarf and my friend was playing elf and this zealot joins us, this was on legend halescourge.
Obviously he spawns with almost a full bar of green so as a common courtesy my friend chunks him with some javelins to make sure he gets his stacks.
We've had plenty of teammates on both legend and mostly on cata who do this to us too because we all understand how zealot works.
Anyway, this random zealot didn't get the memo and full repeaterblasts my friend into a downed state and starts shooting him whilst downed, i quickly vote to kick him and the other random (a GK) also votes to kick him.
Look, i get that FF is not appreciated but on zealot, atleast when i play him and i have full green hp, it is.
Please just read your damn passives and talents before you start playing a new career, on legend i somewhat expect you to know what every career does.
The fact that i still need to explain to some people that you should not heal a zealot on legend is insane to me.
I met a guy on choas wasts that complained about me, zealot, getting hit purpusfully. He even started voting to kick me out. And he had 1000h in this game 🤦♂️
i have seen players who want to play zealot full green life... yes... i know...
i response to him "utility to play full green life zealot when you can play footknight ?"
no anwser lol
Purposefully injuring yourself is lame. A true zealot gains strength through the wounds incurred during righteous slaughter in the name of Sigmar, not through allowing a stinky elf to hurt your holy body while she snickers.
If a zealot finishes his mission without injury then that is all the more glory, for he never needed the extra strength to finish the tasks set before him.
If i joined a game and some random doods thought they knew better than me how I want to play my game and started shooting me I'd be pissed off too. That zealot was right, you were wrong. And being patronizing and assuming "he just doesnt know how to play!!" is quite sad.
I agree with everything in the video, but personally i think we can go even further. Imo his career skill doesnt really fit that well.
His abilities he gets from low hp are his main gimmick, and imo he needs an ability to match.
Perhaps a sort of "self-damage" ability, where his health is lowered just enough to proc all of his abilities, and he gains invuln for maybe 5 seconds.
Could even have a neat animation where he either whips himself or slices himself with a knife saying "by the blood of the righteous the impure are struck down!" Or something like that.
i always use the fire barrel to get my stacks. its prob one of my fav classes on legend. its basically a "throw-the-game-and-go-raw" character. it makes the game really ez as you can melt all enemies besides CW. i use Falchion + walk speed boost because the third light attack is an overhead for ez SV headshots. Falchion also has armor penetration (for SV, not for CW)
Zealot, to me, suffers from the equal but opposite problem the Doc class in Aliens Fireteam did. Doc has a health station that gradually heals allies in a small radius. It required Doc to pick up medkits to refill the battery on it. Now they made it to where anyone can pick up a medkit and it refills it for him (which is way better). Zealot gets punished for allies being generous (even through ignorance) because that's how he's built. I like your suggestion of Zealot converting all permanent health to temp health. I think that would jump start his effectiveness from the get-go without all the hassle and gambling involved currently. It's a razor's edge between getting max stacks and going down.
Flagellant whipping to convert green HP to temp hp! BLESS THIS RAVAGED BODY
I always thought he should have a 3rd passive "can no longer earn Green HP"
Then for level 10 Castigate should be added to his base kit. (lets be real who uses the other 2)
That would free up a row that could become dedicated to his THP
I thought maybe the new Talents could exist like this:
THP no longer decays, Start the game with full THP, When your cheat death passive expires gain 25% THP
I think if they were to change/add a passive they should make some of the talents interact with it.
THP not decaying would be ridiculously broken and would make it no different to green health at that point. Making it decay a little slower would be ok but you already generate a ridiculous amount of THP as Zealot.
I'm going to make another point. I play Zealot almost exclusively, with many, many hundreds of hours on every possible difficulty. Zealot really shines as an _anchor,_ a *support class.* He can spec tanky and still out class the other characters in damage in many situations. He can dash in and out of hordes to save fallen comrades, fuck up armor and shield users, take out specials from a distance, be the "last man standing" to save a run, and _still_ take more of a beating than the others when going toe to toe with bosses. A good Saltzpyre will not hunt for the green circles on the debriefing screen, a good Saltzpyre will make sure that everyone makes it to the gate at the end of the run, and none of the other four are quite as good at that as he is. _That's_ how Zealot should be played... let the kerillian shoot for damage, just be there to pick her up when she inevitably eats a mauler axe in the back. :)
In the begining you can play more risky, you have life to sacrifice.
As he seriously reminds me of a Flagellant.. have him literally FLAIL his green health away into temp, maybe leaving you with 1-20 temp, maybe 10?
The Zealot is my main class I play, and while I agree that he doesn't synergize with other characters well, I don't think you NEED to lower your health to play him well. Like any other character in the game, you should never take damage. It's the goal of game. Sure, the Zealot can become much more powerful on low HP, but I personally never try to do this. I play him like any other character, trying to not get hurt, and if I do, it's not a big deal because he gets more powerful any heals with THP pretty quickly. There are plenty of other classes that attack much slower than a full HP Zealot. The goal is to survive and help the team, not get the most damage and kills. I like your thoughts on changing some of his talents. I think a number of them just aren't useful or interesting. There's a pretty clear choice on many of his talents, which isn't as fun.
I always wondered why people get down to 1hp on Zealot and risk getting one shot after passive is on cooldown...
_"I don't think you NEED to lower your health"_
HERESY!!
You should do a pyromancer rework video. Would very much like to see that as she definitely needs something. One big thing i think they should do is change the volans doctrine talent to being a passive (similar to unchained). Her ability of extra crit chance kinda relies on her not taking this disadvantage at overcharge so this talent is basically a must pick. She also only currently has one passive anyways so i dont think changing this would be a problem. Maybe also another passive that reduces venting damage or faster venting as i feel with pyromancer it is a constant balancing act do prevent overheating. I also think that they should drop all of the talents that remove or pause her overcharge as that kinda contradicts her critical mass gain (if you really want to shoot ranged for longer you can just use heat sink as a better alternative). In its place they should instead focus more on talents that are based off her critical mass passive (eg: extra critical strike damage based on critical mass stacks etc). She already has a talent that are based off her critical mass stack (one with the flame) so why not make more of them or rework on the precipice and fleetflame to be dependant on critical mass stacks. Pyromancer in a way can be similar to zealot (accumulating critical mass stacks vs fiery flame stacks to enhance stats) but a lot more controlled in her resource management.
My idea of her base ult should guarenteed crit, then when it crits it spits into 2 more skulls but at half the power, these 2 skulls have independant crit rolls, if they don't crit, they go till they are finished, if either or both crit, they split but again at half the power, this is to make it non exponential in something like twitch mode Guarenteed crit mode, there also can be a cap of how many skulls it can split up into, say 5 total levels of split.
@@prich0382 Interesting concept. However if they did this they would have to remove her blazing echo talent, otherwise you would always have infinite ult.
@@parmaunited Well yeah pretty much the 3 Level 30 Talents would need to be changed to fit around this new Ult, it's so different that they have to be changed
Chaos wastes has so many ways to randomly grant healing that it's always felt to me like I'm being punished for spending my coins on a random boon as Zealot. Oh great, now I have natural bond and am just weaker for the rest of the game AND I'm out 200 coins. Thanks game...
Just don't take the risk, don't use Zealot, some charcters are just not recommended in Chaos Wastes, he is right down the bottom of characters you should pick
Lets hope fatshark hears this, the points you made were perfect.
Engi is another one who needs a rework, pressure should go down by one at a time you shouldn't lose a stack by missing one crank. His defence is bad but its paired with the fact he needs a babysitter 9 times out of 10 he should have one or the other not both negative traits, and his health pool allows him to make 1-2 aggressive plays, clutch, survive or just make a mistake. He should have bad defence as he is range heavy but maby don't have a dodge limit on the crank gun or give it dual axe dodge range so your rewarded for using the crank gun without team mates rather than just take dmg or don't crank at all.
The most fun I've ever had with engineer is in chaos wastes when I ran the talent that makes it so you don't lose stacks when reaching full charge or firing, and got a boon with the talent that makes it so you have only 4 stacks but you don't lose them over time. It effectively meant I had permanent 4 stacks no matter what, and it made the gameplay feel a million times more fluid because my ult would just regenerate by itself when I was doing other stuff without worrying about micromanaging. I can't go back to playing engineer regularly after that
@@adc1222 iv had this "loadout" for lack of a better term, and it was everything engi needed to feel usefull by himself. Tbh its what made me see more flaws with engi than i had originally seen.
Biggest zealot I face are ranged careers killing ambient (especially elite) mobs when you are just entering melee range and swinging (cuz muh green circles) and parties that will chain steal kills from you when you've just gotten yourself down for 6 stacks and are at 0 THP trying to build a life bar. That and going too long between fights of course.
Cool video my dude. Will ya do something like that for other careers? Like Pyromancer for example?
It’s certainly possible.
The trait “Natural Bond” on necklaces converts healing from draughts and kits into THP, but unfortunately the caveat is that it regenerates 1 health every five seconds.
I actually enjoy this trait on Zealot as I'm not trying to go the entire run with stacks.
@@mansterj which means u r playing wrong career for your playstyle
Seriously though Zealot needs a rework. Every time I’m doing so well and a wild WE join the game with team heal and screws me over.
Run save crots instead with the crossi
I think the biggest problem I have now this is not always going to happen and it will only occur on very specific circumstances but when you have GK in the team with regen health no matter what version whether it's normal health regen or improved it completely undermines Zealots main purpose now like I said it's very situational but when it happens it is very annoying
The only thing I can think of that would functionally fit is for Zealot to always spawn with some sort of item in his healing slot. Left and right click with it out would do nothing, but special weapon attack would convert health into temporary health. Picking up healing would stack over the item(think OE bombs) and take priority, but only Zealot can use special weapon attack with healing items to convert health into temp health.
"But there is one carrier in particular that dont fit ... "
Me : the huntsman ?
I've tried playing as zealot, but it always felt off since I don't really understand the career other than take damage and make thp, fortunately, I won't have to worry about that as wp is a thing
no thoughts on zealot but perhaps just a feedback for ur videos? they're great but it would be really helpful if u show the talent and their description on screen when u talk about them; i know u read them out now (u didnt use to, if i recall correctly) which is great but a lot of viewers might find it easier to follow along if there's something visual to use :-)
I play Zealot and Unchained with what I would call a "flow mechanic". Meaning that I do put natural bond on the Zealot, but I dont take damage on purpose to build the stack. I just play. The better I fight, the less damage output I need. The more mistake I do, the more damage I do and if I perform better. I will get my health back up anyway or at least have just enough health at the time to survive a hit. With Unchained it is similar, but with the heat mechanic. I build up heat to do more damage, but I also have the "block to reduce" heat to balance it so that I have just high enough heat in order to not trigger the overheat on getting hit once by regular forces. Emergency backup is the special to reduce heat and concoction to build it back up again with any potion.
Point is, you wont have frustrations if you play these two characters like this instead of expecting to have max damage output at all times, even when you dont technically need it because you are on your A game. Otherwise I would choose another character than a "flow" type tbh.
I think its hilarious when anyone suggests a rework as if fatshark will change anything. Also Zealot is my fav class even though its a pain, his benefits outweigh that pain
Thank you for agreeing with me that he needs a rework I always say he needs a rework and people respond with "Hes fine as he is, I think hes the best saltz clas, hes pretty easy to use" All of these are horrendously wrong, the only thing he really is is noob friendly and thats only if they read what he does and can understand it. As you pointed out he has talents but 80% of them are basically useless in most situations as the others can and will preform better, The 1st thing is the health convert. historically priest flagellate themselves as part of religious discipline. (can be for horny but our boy is only for sigmar) Zealot can have this as like sienna's overheat bar or SoT's Staff, when you have a melee weapon out you can hold R to start hitting yourself to turn hp into temp. 2nd thing As a passive trait which im still under the opinion that unswerving strikes should be changed, should be where he doesnt lose any temphp at all. This lets him deal with team healing and wounds while being able to stay in the white without it being a hassle. 3rd thing the talents - I like the unbending purpose idea id be more inclined to use that over just castigate, For Calloused line I exclusively use devotion simply because it removes slowdown from being hit and lets you move faster so you ignore the biggest issue zealot has when trying to fight waves, getting a 15-20% attack speed buff on hit would be a nice but I find Devotion to good to change to any other talent, a nice idea would to make it so zealot ignores hit slowdown as a passive and keep the 30% move speed bonus but make it 5 seconds as to keep the talent their and allowing freedom of choice over obvious picks like wayback when we had flagellant talent. For Faiths flurry, personally Id make it a 5% attack speed or even 10% attack speed per hit stacking up to 10 giving you either 50% more attack speed or 100%, I always found it strange that it worked the way it did while being called a flurry since I associate that word in games with attack speed over power, Though this is personal preference.
His Career skill needs to get changed, everyone else's skill feels impactful and does something useful even when it's only with talents, but his? He charges forward and get's attack speed and gets X bonus based on talent, yay? I guess it could still stay as a somewhat useful self buffing ult skill but even then it needs the charge aspect removed, 99.99% of the time anyone uses this cancels the charge anyway since it doesn't knock down the way Footknight's charge does and most of the time it would either get you killed in a horde or just run you off of a cliff, on top of, charging in and repositioning takes so much time the buff almost wears off by that point or you have to block not to get killed.... This was somewhat useful because he did have a talent so he got temp HP for every enemy he hit with his charge but that got removed so now it's worthless to have this function on his ult aside from the extreme niche use of dash reviving. I loved playing Zealot before this whole talent overhaul thing, he felt waaaay more powerful but they tried changing him into something he is not...
TL;DR His career skill needs an overhaul, charge aspect is useless and just causes trouble.
This may be a strange thought, but I personally believe there should be the option for a lot of careers to have the choice of either having melee and ranged weapons or to just go full melee.
Careers like Zealot, Foot Knight and Shade in particular.
Zealot, because he is supposed to be a powerhouse of a melee fighter, so I think that having the choice of taking both a horde clearing weapon and an armor-piercing/burst damage weapon into missions is pretty cool.
For Foot Knight it comes more from the fact that Kruber's ranged weapons aren't a lot of fun, and I imagine FK to be always in the thick of it swinging a giant sword or protecting his team with a shield. Sure, there may be a bit of overlap with Grail Knight, but bear in mind that Grail Knight is a damage dealing powerhouse, whereas FK is supposed be someone who cuts through hordes like a knife through butter thanks to his career ability.
Shade, simply because most people love the idea of running dual daggers, but they also love the idea of staying alive, so they just run sword+dagger lmao.
Problem with this is that you risk for multiplayer having matches of either full melee or barely ranged which on high difficulty or at all is very risky, heck we already have 3 careers that don't have ranged, so you can already know what I'm talking about especially if we get a fourth.
No offense obviously, it's a good idea but the execution for multiplayer isn't going to work.
@@dramaticmudderer5208 Oh yeah, totally, I know for a fact that this would screw up a lot of games especially in random matches.
But a lot of careers would really see their true potential with such a change.
It would probably never happen tho.
@@KRIMZONMEKANISM Yeah sadly it was a good idea though
(plus since we already have 3 careers with only melee it might not matter much if your idea was executed though since it basically is the same but different carrers now that I think about it, shade would be op though),
for now though, modded realm is the only way.
Zealots are bums tho.
Yeah. A completely useless 5% strength when the Thorn Sister has 15% strength when she's just dealing damage/get healing.
how dare you compare plebs to mighty DLC characters
@@impc8265 ur mighty DLC character be good now. I like new balance about SoTT.
@@impc8265 zealots are bums tho, make sense
i have always felt like zealot is a big risk and reward career so i have always wanted to see something to do with deaths door, maybe more power or attack speed idk but i totally agree that zealot is more of a hassle than a career you just pop and play. a talent that maybe makes all healing including natural bond and waystalkers heal gets turned into temp health with a slower temp health decay, i feel like that could make a lot of healing boons in the chaos wastes really good, i also feel like zealot is extremely new player unfriendly since like you said a lot of people me included when i started playing will just run natural bond and heal when you don't need to because you just kinda wanna see what this career does, it makes all of those players go "this is bad because yada yada" and then never play zealot until 100 or so hours in, i also feel like they could remake talents into different ults, like maybe a small aoe that staggers enemies instead of a dash forward because the dash is a bit too situational and you end up canceling the dash anyways. anyway thank you for coming to my ted talk i love you -kiss kiss-
As does pyromancer! Its basicly half a class compared to others
You forgot to mention when bots heal you if they have medkit, or the fact that you cant buy random boons in Chaos Wastes cuz of all the healing boons the game has....He definetly needs some change
Like all professional zealot players, you have the mark of pigmar on your head
Wet, please do the build I suggested on your last video! I want to hear your thoughts on it.
Regardless, yea I agree with your points in this video.
Flagelant is the guy that says: "I'm not stuck here with you, chaos patrol, you're the ones stuck here with me" and not all of his talents fit that.
Oh well, have a good day
payday 2 did a similar thing, the way the ended up handling it was having a capstone talent "frenzy" which capped your maximum hp at 30%, (it also granted some damage resistence which is probably unnecessary here) but really i don't see any reason zealot can't have a talent that just says "your hp is capped at x" full stop. maybe even just roll that into some other talent that benefits from low hp.
hello! can you do a career tier list for all characters? :D
I will redo my career tier list after sienna’s 4th is put out
@@WetMagic alright great
I agree zealot does need a rework but I don’t want to change anything about him when it comes to high risk high reward,he’s my favorite character.
Honestly I'd just give him as a passive that he regenerates and heals thp intead of green hp.
Additionally or alternatively just make him loose green hp before white hp to make self harm that much more pleasurable :D
Rework zealot NOOOOO
the part where he converts permanent hp to temp hp could very much be a flagellant type thing, where he whips himself over time
lets make this a thing
...i want that fuckin Helmet cosmetic!!!?
SOTT, moonfirebow and Javelin trivializing enemies.
GK deleting bosses.
Fatshark: Nerf axe and falchion and Slayer's duel axes! Those weapons are too good compared to the other weapons in their classes!
Me: Seriously WTF are you doing!?
Watching this video makes me want to run Smite and Calloused from within and just sidestep the zealot meta lol.
Your Callous from within and without proposal is a good one, however I feel that your temp health converter idea needs a little more tweaking. Allow me to explain myself.:
As far as an item just being standardized for converting health to thp to be a generalized item drop, it would be a rather niche use-case and wouldn’t really see much use outside of Zealot. I believe it would better serve as a class specific spawning pickup along the lines of ranger vet’s little ammo caches.
That, or a mechanic they could introduce where pressing R while having your melee weapon out would have Saltzpyre produce a cat o’ nine tails-like whip and begin engaging in self-flagellation as a form of grotesque self-repentance to Sigmar. I think it would fit very well within who Saltzpyre is as a character. This mechanic would drive down his health chip by chip or perhaps just convert health to thp chip by chip.
Yea I was thinking more along the lines of it being a 3rd passive. I just brought up those examples to show that they could definitely make it happen.
Honestly I used to use zealot as a “book hunters” main because if you are playing on legend and running books and grimoires you need a person to rely on to clutch the game if needed. and grimoires also could work well with zealot due to health reduction (maybe) but with the release of WPOS, zealot was literally crushed from his place (and for the better) as WPOS has literally 100% curse resistance and can protect people with his carrier skill. He has so much defense that he is better than zealot. So now zealot has no purpose to me and he probably doesn’t even have a fighting chance because WPOS is way better. So maybe if he did get a rework I may have a reason to play zealot, other than that, that was my view on this
As it should, warrior priests are way too powerful compared to zealots, as the latter are bums.
When u talk about perks, u should show them to us.
I think the Faith's flurry talent should go and be replaced with something like when he charges he looses 80% health and like all damage or 80% damage he takes turns into temp health but everyone is just going to take that talent so idk
Grail Knight has this interesting thing when he takes damage it becomes temp health after a couple of seconds so ye
Devs nerf old classes to sell new ones, they don't give a shit about in depth balance.
They need to give him holy magic and stuff.
without even watching; yes
He is the only career with antisynergy
A lot of classes need changes :
Zealot, Slayer, Hunter, Sienna in general...
I don't see reason for the stretch. Simply make him immune to any form of heal from where ever it's coming except medical supplies (the medipacs) he uses on himself. Every other healing on him simply won't work. That way you can be on grey health all you want and if you really mean to heal up after getting downed to regain your 2nd life, you gonna do it yourself. Natural Bond would be perfect this way even because now instead of regenerating him, he only gets the 'heal is TempHP' bonus out of it and you can full Thp heal yourself with draughts.
The hat in the thumbnail, I really want that.
There is no problem to get the stacks ... just don't check your back for a while, the "one rat" is always there and ready to hit you half second after you checked it :D Or just fight infront of Sienna (regardless of career), Huntsman or Waystalker. They will "help you" get the stacks :D
The talents could use some tweaking, but this is the *same case with half (if not all)* of the careers. There is always line of talents in which there are the one talent, that is better and the one, that is worse. This is because it is so difficult to balance it for different difficulties and diffirent stats and buffs. I do not believe, that Fatshark will even atempt to balance it "ideally". And i would seriously recommend them to not even try it, waste of time. You can never "repair" talents ideally. Let them focus on something more important.
Why not just take damage naturally though?
Whilst we're at it, could we also address the absolute hassle it is for people that don't have an unholy stockpile of red powder to try and arm yourself with DLC weapons since DLC weapons do not drop for owners of said DLCs in chests?
I mean, Warrior Priest is just a nuisance in that regard. Not really the person to have played enough to have huge stocks of materials, so getting a few orange weapons were already annoying, but sufferable. But when you only get 1 red dust pile per red item salvaged, that's gonna take a while. Not that it's impossibly long, but I personally find it unfairly tedious when you use alot of DLC weapons, such as Handmaiden Spear&Shield, Javelin, Billhook, Griffonfoot, Bretonnian S&S, and people that might end up maining Warrior Priest, since he just literally has no other option than to build all his crap himself.
I don't see the issue here. I see the stacks as an added bonus that I get when I eventually take damage. Nice to have when I screw up, but definitely not required. I feel like that's how Fatshark intended it.
He just need the old THP system.
Remember when he used to be immortal simply by making white health faster than the enemy can remove it ?
Very interesting
The design of "having less health = more dmg" isn't necessarily the issue, it's the fact that's not communicated to the team if they don't know the Zealot mechanics. If he still has temp health, and the dmg buff given is dependent on his green health, then he gets the best of both worlds with high dmg and high health, it's just most of it is temp health. That's too OP in my opinion, but I don't think there's really a way to communicate this mechanic at all.
unfortunately his current kit pigeonholes the design choice to "make all green hp always become thp" or removing the stacks and changing his identity with a "buff me by swapping green for temp hp" which kinda sucks but that's the identity that most people already know zealots or fanatics in general to be.
I think Unchained is in a way worse spot. I can actually play and understand Zealot. Unchained is just hitting your breaking point and asking to die twice.
Sidenote, if you want to lose HP on zealot, just play cataclysm. You'll get there one way or another.
They also need to make it that in chaos wastes stacks can go above 6
OP yes, but why else are you playing chaos wastes if not to get incredibly broken builds?
Also I belive the whole "Green to THP" Should either be a % ammount of green HP gained is converted to white or any healing zealot recieves will be green up until he would start to loose a stack of fiery faith, making the rest white, because the constant fear that you may just bleed to 1hp over time sounds anxiety inducing
Sad bountyhunter noises.
Zealot should be a lower priority than Slayer which has been busted for far too long
What do you mean by that?
You cant compare bums to slayers...
I think he should have a passive or talent "Living Sacrifice" or "Willing Sacrifice" that would keep his health low ,like Grims do, but increase his dmg resists , or that it would scale: more hp he has more dmg he takes, less hp ,less dmg taken . but healing disabling is tricky . maybe an effect he could activate by doing something ?
Dude it already exists, it's called Armour of Faith, 30% Damage Reduction at 6 stacks in a standerd build + Boon of Shallya is better then Holy Fortitude + Barkskin. Your THP generation is +85% effectively vs +90% of HF build but you have also effectively have 257 HP vs 180 on HF build.
@@prich0382 Wait, huh? Where did you 85%? With boon you only get 30 and maybe with sister you get 55%, sorry if this is a dumb question but I'm confused.
@@dramaticmudderer5208 Sigh because permanent Damage Reduction increases your effective health... 30% DR is a +~43% increase in Health, so that means also an increase in effective THP generation, so combined with Boon of Shallya it's multiplicative which is ~1.43 x 1.3 = ~1.85.
Imagine you have permanent 90% DR, your effective health is 10 times higher, but your THP generation is 1 per hit, which means it's effectively 10 THP per hit... See how that works? Magic called maths.
(100÷70)×1.3 = 1.857142857142. Might even be 186% overall, not sure how the game handles rounding.
And i just want a rainbow map where i get to slice teddybears! ;D
As a main zealot i can confirm, lol
I honestly think the Zealot is the ONLY class I've never played a mission. I've played everyone at least once, but not the Zealot.
Missing out
playing zealot on very high difficulties, high weaves, dwons, FoW, he is strong, i dont really think he needs a rework, (only thing i am missing is a build variety, coz weave, FoW build is pretty much volley crossbow build, dwons is just meta and official QP is just whatever build works and u can still win.)
if there could be something that changes his green HP to temp. HP that would be welcomed. btw playing zealot on green HP is possible, but you are throwing away soo much potencial of that career, his passive, etc.
I like Zealot if you manage to get temp health high enough to not get one shotted. And, getting stacks doesnt feel worth it. I rather play Warrior Priest one handed and shield build.
This is just my thoughts on Zealot. As fun as the stacks from low health are, the way it works out in gameplay because of temp health isn't great to me. Like, unchained can manage overcharge in a way makes you balance risk vs reward. High overcharge increases damage but increases the risk of overheating. Zealot on the other hand is just about taking the green health down low to get max stacks and then fill up with temp health. Then you just play and never think about it again. There is hardly any reason to not do that and allways have max stacks. That doesn't seem right to me. If it works like that then why not just make it so that Zealot allways has the benefits of max stacks and can't have green health? That's how it ends up working when I play anyway. I think it is a boring interaction that needs to change into something more dynamic and interesting to play. Kinda like how unchained works again. I'm not sure how it should be for Zealot though and I don't mean it should be exactly like unchained. I just want something more interesting.
They probly just dont intend for players to "get their stacks" everytime. A game developer makes design choices based on how it reads (lorewise) and how it plays. They dont design a game based on the 5% of the player base who wants to maximise every minute detail to get the absoulute full potential out of a class...especially not in a team based pve game. The zealot is a flagellant, so lore wise he charges in with recklessness because he knows god wont let him die and if god does let him die he will be rewarded. So ingame I think they intended him for the more aggressive types whod rather swing instead of blocking half the time, giving them a batshit crazy melee class that benefits rather than burdens when he takes hard damage. I really doubt they want people running around taking specific damage befopre everypull it was designed for the leroy jenkins types. Im not against a rework but dont think its that nessacary. Tweaks mabey.
I agree his talents are not balanced.
Pyromancer needs a remake too
Whenever I attempt to play Zealot at the cata level, I always come to the conclusion: I could be playing Unchained right now. Both classes are a high risk high reward archetype, but I feel Zealot is less flexible when making builds and has less payoff when compared to Unchained.
If I were to change anything, I’d consider buffing Zealot’s stacks to a comparable level of Unchained’s. Up from 5% power to 10%. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s the impression I have after playing both classes extensively.
ok for real how the hell do you obtain the helmet that apears on the thumbnail of the video?
it looks so cool for zealot but i cannot find any way to obtain it.
why not just play him like normal more tanky character instead of purposefully lowering your health to be a risky damage dealer? I only play on legendary and not cataclysm but does he really need all stacks off the bat? Isn't it fine to simply be a tankier person that is given compensation for frontlining?
I think he needs a new ultimate... its flat out trash. It doesn't last long enough to feel like you did anything and it has a strangely long recharge.
Passive increasing damage received and attack speed the longer he won't take any but dramatically decreasing subsequent hits (like a super stoneskin) making him lose the bonus.
Increased stagger versus enemies that dealt him damage recently.
Damage received is stored in a counter that buffs his next attack after ult.
You know who has a lot of green health?
Ironbreaker
Just saying
He has 150, along with Foot Knight, Grail Knight, Zealot, Warrior Priest and Unchained
I'd love to see Zealot getting a charging bar that behaved like an Unchained's bar, but the higher that bar gets not only des the Zealot get increased dmg, but they take increased dmg, so this would offset still having high health. For example having the bar maxed to 100% means you get 1 shot. So it's a similar risk vs reward as before, you get high dmg but if you get hit your dead.
Have they ever done a rework before?
He shouldn't get a rework because he is unique its a different from the others
...simply giving him a passive that gives him temp health instead of green health would still make him unique.
I love zealot he's one of my favorite careers but even I have to admit he needs a rework.
@@azariah_kyras fair enough
I never understood the temp health strategy. If you're doing well, you don't *need* the stacks, and a weakened Saltspyre can be a liability for the team. For my play style, the stacks always served as a cushion for when things started to go sideways, but never as a primary source of potency.
What? Cus you don't have a deep understanding of the game mechanics you don't understand??? The 30% Power Boost can help your Crossbow hit Breakpoints, also great for Griffen-Foot build to boost Hoard and Unarmoured Elites clear speed. The stacks are crucial to a well played type of play style. The Attack speed bost too for Castigate is super good too.
This class is amazing, also the Griffen Foot movement speed build is hands down the best character in the game for doing something like Weekly Event Twins with Bomb Rats which drop ammo, no other character comes close to the amount of damage you can dish out, it's disgusting honestly. Also works well in Modded difficulties with more specials or doing Specials Deed with a Ranger Vet to feed you. This character literally needs no changes.
@@prich0382 I've played Saltzpyre exclusively since launch. The low health method is high-risk high-reward, and I have used it. I don't like it, I did consistently better at end game runs using other builds, and more importantly, my team did not wipe because I fucked up a single block. You can say "you suck you suck" all you want, but I guarantee, _you know exactly what I'm talking about._ I agree with you on one point though: old One Eye is the best, and I don't think he needs to be changed either. ;)
@@Sceptis How is it high risk? Green health and White health are the same, it's just white decays, there is more then enough enemies to sustain it lol, there is no difference at being for example 30 HP with green health or 30 HP in White health only, absolutily no difference. I don't agree with Wet Magic opinioon on it being a hassle, it's only a hassle in something like harder, Better, Faster, Stronger where elites are jacked up, but you just have to adjust play style
@@prich0382 Brother, believe me, I know how this style works, I've used it a lot. I found my way to be far more consistent in the long run. For my group, playing tank/support Zealot fits much better as a team oriented build.
@@Sceptis Yeah, it makes since why fatshark used to have him have talents that were similar to footknight or even iron breaker because zealot is supposed to be the tank career in saltzpyres row(warrior priest is a different kind of tank but also is more based on support) then they added the new talents and made him just as if not more tanky than before, his weapons are good enough to deal without stacks, if anything to me he's a tank that unlike others gets better the less health he has
Agree #Pr0t0n
What about huntsman ??
So simply you are just pissed others can fuck you up by healing and changing talents into fucking imba what Zealot already is in right hands. So either you want him MORE powerfull (which is stupid as he is already really good in right hands) or you dont know how to play him and you wanna "fix" him in best way suited to you.
Wont happend. Learn him or dont play him.
And for others? Yea it suck that what happend in COOP games if you meet dickheads.
EDIT: Also why to let him Convert HP into Temp HP?
War Priest also have to build up his passive during fight as Zealot have to build up his stacks, as everyone have to crit to make his so called "stack" (Attack speed proc. on weapons)
Zealot have literally easiest Stack gen and even if you calculate it badly and overkill yourself? PASSIVE! So its literally easiest stack gen - just get hurt thats all.
I disagree