At his point I think I can write the script for 90% of the calls: 1. Caller starts by saying they have a logical and rational reason for their belief 2-15. Caller gives rambling roundabout word salad that has a long debunked apologetic argument (god of the gaps, cosmological, etc) interspersed with 20x pointless diversions 16. Host manages to dig out their argument and explains why it's invalid 17. Caller admits they believe what they believe because they want to believe it (often couching it in "intuition" or "faith") 18. Call ends
Mostly comes down to God of the Gaps. There's something that I have NO explanation for,,,, and /Or do not comprehend the explanation given by experts. So God did it. Thereby proving God is real.
2-15 addendum: while saying "just to be clear" as often as they go on completely irrelevant tangents that makes everything more confusing. And I'm pretty sure at least half of the callers actually do that intentionally. They know that a straight up argument will fail, so they insist on couching it in mountains of context that they imagine will change how logic works. It never does.
@@nagranoth_I think you're right, and I think that many religious people see these impossibly incoherent webs of "logic" that they build to be a positive thing. They think, until calling in to this show and being forced to verbalize it, that the thought traps that lead to only their god are valid evidences in and of themselves. They will leave the call and go add new layers to their arguments, new twists in the web that make it harder for them to get out themselves. All the while, they recognize that they would never do these sorts of gymnastics with any other topic or belief, but they think it's justified in this sense because they WANT to believe it. They call these inescapable webs that they trap themselves in "faith." Are they wrong? No one knows, all we know is that faith can be used to believe anything, especially untrue things.
"Im not a philosophy major, but here are my own flawed definitions for these concepts that only exist in philosophical theories, and have no basis in reality"
Good grief. Why do people call up when they clearly have NO clue what they even think but go out of their way to bat away all reason that comes at them?
it's because they truly believe in what they believe and maybe only live in an echo chamber, so when they finally do find someone who doesn't agree, the caller will automatically assume the new comer is wrong, because the echo chamber says so. and you have to listen to the echo chamber if you want to go to the good place when you pass away from this mortal body.
People always present these WEAK arguments for their god, and I always would like to ask "If you were NOT a believer, would this argument convince YOU that there is a god?" - and if they say Yes, then they are either gullible, or a liar.
@@blumoon131 ugh I was hoping against hope you just meant that the caller couldn’t respond because they’d be unable to imagine the perspective of a non-believer. But then ya had to go and say something silly like it’s provable… only to NOT provide that proof (as usual)!
Because when it comes right down to it, that's all they have. There is no good reason whatsoever to believe it and so once you actually dig through all the BS indoctrination and apologetics, you get the truth.
Because they aren't expecting to be forced to get to that point. They expect to spew high-falutin' words in order to confuse but get caught short when these "heard-it-all" hosts have heard it all and know how to cut through it and answer it.
Damn! I sure wish I'd have read that half an hour ago, but then I'd have missed watching Forrest bee-boping along to the music in his head. It certainly brings to mind the phrase "marching on the beat of his own drummer". 😂
consciousness is weird, I have aphantasia and it has some implications for consciousness. Aphantasia is the inability to visualize and in my case I cannot imagine any form of experience in my brain, I can only experience it when its happening and recognize it if or when it happens again. I cannot imagine the color red so if i never saw the color red ever again I would never again know what its like to see red again. Its kinda weird and hard to describe since the experience is impossible to imagine, trying to visualize in my head is impossible for me. When I close my eye all I see is dark and only because that is what my eyes show me, I can only visualize nothing and not nothing as in darkness just literally the absence of anything or more accurately I just cant visualize or do anything equivalent with any of my senses. I cant even "look" in my own head if that makes sense? Its gotta have some implications on how brains work but I honestly have no idea what they are, i am just the guy who cant visualize the color red but can see red which is hilarious as that is suppose to be contradictory according to most people.
Each call is a personal journey of discovery for the caller. These take time, unfortunately. Bearing that in mind, OMFG, Chris is SOOO EFFING CONFUSED! Thoughts are happening between his ears like butterflies.
These calls aren't specifically for you, especially if you're already an Athiest. They just happen to be live recorded on this platform. They are meant to get a Theist to start to critically think for the first time in their entire lives and I find the psychological aspects of it incredibly interesting.
There went 28 minutes of my life that I can't get back. I kept waiting for the caller (Chris) to say something. Now I'm upset with myself... I could have done something much more productive in the last 28 minutes. ACK!
Whenever one of these theists purports to be able to prove to all humanity the existence of a god, I always make sure I'm doing something like re-stringing one of my guitars while listening to them try. That way, when the call is finally over, at least humanity has gained one more freshly strung guitar.
@@dagg310I can't sit still either, and constantly tap my legs, sit up on my knees in the chair, use headphones and bang my head in public to ignore people, and I promise you I don't want people looking at me. Hopefully I misunderstood your comment lol
@@fohrum4757 i understand. i also have restless leg syndrome. but when ur hosting a show and acting like ur listening to music while someone else is talking, it's hard for me to take that person seriously. when i'm engaged in a serious conversation with someone, i don't act like i'm listening to taylor swift.
This is my favorite combo on the show. Matt gets frustrated and tells someone they're an idiot and should STFU. Then, Forrest politely explains why and how...
This is a funny comment. Matt is clearly being chill, Forrest is being more condescending and escalating quicker. Forrest reminds me of the "cage stage" that atheist go through (including me).
@@theoneed2051 Matt was very "chill" for this one. Maybe it was the first call of the episode. I was just speaking generally, before watching the clip to completion...
I take umbrage with the phrase “Euclidean geometry isn’t true.” Euclidean geometry is just a collection of rules that operate on abstract objects which often model real-world phenomena. Monopoly (the board game) also models some real-world phenomena but we couldn’t describe it as true or untrue. The issue here is that the earth doesn’t approximate a plane very well except on small scales where the errors are either smaller than our ability to measure or too small to affect the performance of a design which uses Euclidean geometry.
Matt has the patience of a monk. Chris is way out of his depth here and is clutching at straws. A universal field of consciousness? Thanks Forrest for trying to cut through the bs. Chris just can't admit he believes because he wants to be immortal.
I hope this audio bug where the first second is repeated regularly won't be in the next videos (no, people, it isn't a subliminal message about kriss angel)
I think Matt and Forrest are my favorite duo on this channel. Matt has amazing rhetoric and skips through the callers bullshit, and Forrest kinda plays the good cop and helps the caller understand and also has an extensive knowledge on a few things Matt isnt the best on, like Evolution.
I really wish Matt would have more interactions like this. I can understand his frustration with people refusing to answer questions and hearing the same lane arguments but when he is calm and patient I learn so much about the subject he is discussing, great ways to formulate questions and examples, and serves as a prime example of productive discussion.
Advice to theist callers. Be prepared to succinctly and specifically explain what you believe and why. Be prepared to offer a definition of the God you believe in and supply some kind of reason why you believe in that God, and why anyone else should believe it. That is the very minimum requirement. If you are not prepared to do either of those things, you will be shot down in flames, immediately, so don’t bother calling into the show. Also, please listen to at least ten episodes of a show before you call in, so you can get an accurate idea of what to expect. Callers sometimes get frustrated or disoriented when the host asks a question that you haven’t thought about. Then you will accuse the hosts of being unreasonable and combative, which they are not. They just ask questions for clarification, not to embarrass you. Just do your homework before you call.
It would be cool to live in Forest’s head where he has a song going through his head as he listens to the caller. What song are you Bee-Bopping to Forest?
I think after 40 years of people trying to make excuses,examples and experiences for their god I'm about done with listening to them. Time for adding a new hobby instead of listening to the same old bullshit.
I’m an atheist and I’m no fan of any religion, but it seems to me that faith by definition cannot be proven. The core of the problem for me is, God or Gods cannot be proven or disproven, there is no evidence for or against, if you could prove god or gods existed then you would no longer need faith which is why all of these call sound the exact same.
I know it has been a while, but there are exceptions to the notion that God cannot be shown to be real/fake. The _idea_ of a god cannot be shown, beyond all doubt, to exist or not. However, when the characteristics of a God (its properties, its goals, its historical interactions with reality) CAN be tested, then we now have a path to potentially falsify said being. Thankfully, most religions do that. They attribute things like unlimited power and knowledge, events like a worldwide flood, even direct conversations with humans that are later recorded. In investigating these things, we can learn whether their _version_ of a god is likely to exist or not. This is the only reason why the problem of evil is actually a problem for the monotheistic religions, since they usually claim their god is all-powerful, all-knowing, and perfectly benevolent. If their god was not all of those things, the problem of evil goes away. Therefor, since the problem of evil exists, such a god is incongruent with reality and is therefor impossible. That doesn't mean a different god doesn't exist, just that their definition of one doesn't. At which point one must ask, why worship a god that cannot exist?
What's with the "Chris in Ge-" soundbyte from the beginning repeating every couple of minutes throughout the video? Did God possess this video or something?
I mean as someone with aphantasia I kinda know what its like to not know what red looks like, I can see red and recognize it when I see it again but if i ever were to be in a situation where i can never see red again I would be unable to experience it as i lack the ability to visualize it. If I am not experiencing something in the moment I cant honestly say i know what its like, yet i can recognize it next time i experience it. Its really hard to explain how it works since there isnt a way for most people to relate to my experience but i think its a good argument against qualia since I cant imagine what its like to experience red yet can recognize it when i do. I think that consciousness is simultaneously much less special/supernatural and much more complex and convoluted then people think. I mean seriously I cant think in an entire way that most people do yet have little issues stemming from it, I cant imagine the color red, the taste of strawberries, or hear a person speak and am only able to recognize the experience when it happens.
You can't have knowledge about something you didn't experience? Um... no, that is not how that works, if that was the way things work then we could have no knowledge of history and school would be 913 years long because you have to experience everything rather than just learn it.
This has NO IDEA what he's talking about, incoherence abounds and his multi syllabic word salad isn't helping him much.. all he had to say was: "I don't know" , and not make a fool of himself
I'm glad he explained why he thought the Quallia thought experiment was flawed because I had the same train of thought. Sounds ridiculous to claim to have knowledge about something you've yet to experience.
I never really feel too bad for the people who call in... but I couldn't help but feel a bit bad for this guy and I suspect Matt did a bit too as he went unusually easy on him. He was in way way over his head and seems to have a difficult time putting his thoughts into words. He's one of those guys that takes twenty minutes to get to his point and never really even begins to get there... Not only did he provide zero evidence for the existence of a God, but we were all falling asleep for 28 minutes waiting to get to that obvious fact.
This caller is earnest and sincere and good natured, which is nice because not all of them are, but has a hard time string together coherent thoughts. He just "feels" like God exists because it "seems" to make "sense" to him.
Does Mary learn something about experience? maybe, it is a new experience. Does she learn anything about color? no, she already knows everything about color.
My parents are hardcore believers in jesus and god… this is how 100% of our discussions end… yet they still believe… the truth is they don’t care if it’s real or if their believe makes any rational sense, they believe because it makes them feel good and they are afraid of death
One issue I have as a cognitive scientist is that “consciousness” as we experience it is not the only possibility for intelligent behavior, or experiencing “qualia”. It’s heavily constrained by our perceptual capacity, working memory, and so on. There’s no reason why another type of consciousness can’t exist that is foreign to us.
Humans seem to have two kinds of conciousness. Some people have running internal dialogs and are amazed to find out some don't. And the ones that don't are surprised that some do.
Thing to remember: Almost every theistic caller was indoctrinated as a child. The arguments they present are almost NEVER the reason for being the credulous believer that they present. Ergo, citing arguments misses the whole point to Matt's recurring question: "Why do you believe?" And it is never because of intelligent design, consciousness, or any other attempt to justify the unfounded beliefs professed... Which also explains why their explanation NEVER answers the question of why to believe.
Rational Justification Requires Falsification. There is nothing to believe. Know or not. Intellectual honesty is important. The only thing to know is to know not. God is an illogical, irrational, and asinine concept. To say therefore is a logical fallacy. I am a high school loser drop out, and even I comprehend the rules of logic pertaining to EPISTEMOLOGY! Ignorance + dishonesty = GAWD✌️
It seems to me that when people offer a "Yeah No" answer they are inadvertently and simultaneously admitting their belief in something and their suspension of disbelief for a lack of any evidence they have for that something.
🤣🤣🤣 Oh dear. Culturally “yeah no” just means “no” where I come from… it is constantly used in every day speech. When we want to say yes, we say “nah yeah”.
All these useless drawn out preambles from callers and in the end is just a weak ass argument... NEVER do they get to the point OR are able to answer a straight question
At his point I think I can write the script for 90% of the calls:
1. Caller starts by saying they have a logical and rational reason for their belief
2-15. Caller gives rambling roundabout word salad that has a long debunked apologetic argument (god of the gaps, cosmological, etc) interspersed with 20x pointless diversions
16. Host manages to dig out their argument and explains why it's invalid
17. Caller admits they believe what they believe because they want to believe it (often couching it in "intuition" or "faith")
18. Call ends
Mostly comes down to God of the Gaps. There's something that I have NO explanation for,,,, and /Or
do not comprehend the explanation given by experts. So God did it. Thereby proving God is real.
Yea! That's pretty much it!
2-15 addendum: while saying "just to be clear" as often as they go on completely irrelevant tangents that makes everything more confusing.
And I'm pretty sure at least half of the callers actually do that intentionally. They know that a straight up argument will fail, so they insist on couching it in mountains of context that they imagine will change how logic works. It never does.
@@nagranoth_I think you're right, and I think that many religious people see these impossibly incoherent webs of "logic" that they build to be a positive thing. They think, until calling in to this show and being forced to verbalize it, that the thought traps that lead to only their god are valid evidences in and of themselves. They will leave the call and go add new layers to their arguments, new twists in the web that make it harder for them to get out themselves. All the while, they recognize that they would never do these sorts of gymnastics with any other topic or belief, but they think it's justified in this sense because they WANT to believe it. They call these inescapable webs that they trap themselves in "faith." Are they wrong? No one knows, all we know is that faith can be used to believe anything, especially untrue things.
That about sums it up man.
"Im not a philosophy major, but here are my own flawed definitions for these concepts that only exist in philosophical theories, and have no basis in reality"
that sums it up
Basis could be there , only in a different world -not the reality that we have here ,but how we interact and perceive it
@@het53 your ignorance?..no..patently obvious sad little troll
@@het53 Prove it.
Good grief. Why do people call up when they clearly have NO clue what they even think but go out of their way to bat away all reason that comes at them?
it's because they truly believe in what they believe and maybe only live in an echo chamber, so when they finally do find someone who doesn't agree, the caller will automatically assume the new comer is wrong, because the echo chamber says so. and you have to listen to the echo chamber if you want to go to the good place when you pass away from this mortal body.
People always present these WEAK arguments for their god, and I always would like to ask "If you were NOT a believer, would this argument convince YOU that there is a god?" - and if they say Yes, then they are either gullible, or a liar.
@@het53 It proves itself. If they say yes they are gullible as hell or lying, there is no other option. It can only be true.
@@het53What are you on? It's incredibly provable
@@het53You're really bad at trolling. But you're good for a laugh, so keep at it.
@@blumoon131 ugh I was hoping against hope you just meant that the caller couldn’t respond because they’d be unable to imagine the perspective of a non-believer.
But then ya had to go and say something silly like it’s provable… only to NOT provide that proof (as usual)!
Does it surprise you? Most of them had the superstition drilled into their minds long before they evolved their ability to reason.
There's something about watching Forrest just vibin' during the word salad that's just so funny and wholesome 😂
I was just about to say the same thing! Also I hope Forrest never suffers the curse of male pattern baldness. I envy that hair! :P
It’s Relatable
or annoying
why's that?@@het53
@@het53 Yes, please elucidate on this. I'm fascinated...
“CHRIS IN G-“
The highlight of this video 😂 😊
You know it's pretty bad when even Forest is tired of the BS. 😂😂😂😂.
Why do these arguments for god ALWAYS boil down to "because I can't think of a better reason for X?"
Yup, that's all they've got. If they had any evidence for the actual thing they're arguing for they'd bring it.
Because when it comes right down to it, that's all they have. There is no good reason whatsoever to believe it and so once you actually dig through all the BS indoctrination and apologetics, you get the truth.
a failure of our educational system to make critical thinking courses compulsory in all schools. A simpler answer... human nature.
Classic argument from ignorance
Because they aren't expecting to be forced to get to that point. They expect to spew high-falutin' words in order to confuse but get caught short when these "heard-it-all" hosts have heard it all and know how to cut through it and answer it.
Odd little sounds blips of Jimmy's voice cutting in ...throughout. I do hope I'm not the only one hearing it.
I thought it was Matt's voice at the beginning of the video introducing the caller. "Chris in G-"
I heard it too. Tried to ignore it, though not entirely succfully.
Heard it too
Jimmy has been taken by the AI
I think he is saying Chris Angel
"Look at the trees"
I just see Forrest.
Good one.
And his charming smile 😂
Haha good one man, on several levels 😊
You saw the Forrest for the trees eh?
Good one
"i dont understand consciousness, therefore god!" -saved you half an hour
Damn! I sure wish I'd have read that half an hour ago, but then I'd have missed watching Forrest bee-boping along to the music in his head. It certainly brings to mind the phrase "marching on the beat of his own drummer". 😂
ah thanks
@@het53 unlike you..who is just another sky wizard drone
Phew Thanks, i'll skip this one out.
consciousness is weird, I have aphantasia and it has some implications for consciousness. Aphantasia is the inability to visualize and in my case I cannot imagine any form of experience in my brain, I can only experience it when its happening and recognize it if or when it happens again. I cannot imagine the color red so if i never saw the color red ever again I would never again know what its like to see red again.
Its kinda weird and hard to describe since the experience is impossible to imagine, trying to visualize in my head is impossible for me. When I close my eye all I see is dark and only because that is what my eyes show me, I can only visualize nothing and not nothing as in darkness just literally the absence of anything or more accurately I just cant visualize or do anything equivalent with any of my senses. I cant even "look" in my own head if that makes sense?
Its gotta have some implications on how brains work but I honestly have no idea what they are, i am just the guy who cant visualize the color red but can see red which is hilarious as that is suppose to be contradictory according to most people.
I hate how these calls drag on and on…only to come to the same conclusion, which is they have no evidence to justify their claims.
Each call is a personal journey of discovery for the caller. These take time, unfortunately.
Bearing that in mind, OMFG, Chris is SOOO EFFING CONFUSED! Thoughts are happening between his ears like butterflies.
These calls aren't specifically for you, especially if you're already an Athiest. They just happen to be live recorded on this platform. They are meant to get a Theist to start to critically think for the first time in their entire lives and I find the psychological aspects of it incredibly interesting.
I love how Forrest starts stimming whenever he gets bored.
Hey DJ! I wanna hear that “Chris in Ger…” sample again pretty please!
There went 28 minutes of my life that I can't get back. I kept waiting for the caller (Chris) to say something. Now I'm upset with myself... I could have done something much more productive in the last 28 minutes. ACK!
Whenever one of these theists purports to be able to prove to all humanity the existence of a god, I always make sure I'm doing something like re-stringing one of my guitars while listening to them try. That way, when the call is finally over, at least humanity has gained one more freshly strung guitar.
@@indiegun Good idea!
@@indiegunawesome 😂
My ADD definitely feels Forrest's inability to sit still through this shit haha.
it's called "look at me" syndrome
@@dagg310hahahaha
I have to listen to these at 1.75 speed to keep my mind from wandering. If only Forrest could do the same in real life.
@@dagg310I can't sit still either, and constantly tap my legs, sit up on my knees in the chair, use headphones and bang my head in public to ignore people, and I promise you I don't want people looking at me. Hopefully I misunderstood your comment lol
@@fohrum4757 i understand. i also have restless leg syndrome. but when ur hosting a show and acting like ur listening to music while someone else is talking, it's hard for me to take that person seriously. when i'm engaged in a serious conversation with someone, i don't act like i'm listening to taylor swift.
What is the weird "Prison Jerp..." or something that keeps jumping in on the audio??
Every time Forrest does is little dance of "lord this is some nonsense BS" I love it
you’re corny af…
“Chris in jeure…” anyone else have this happening like a dozen times in this
Yes
Unfortunately yes I did.
This is my favorite combo on the show. Matt gets frustrated and tells someone they're an idiot and should STFU. Then, Forrest politely explains why and how...
This is a funny comment. Matt is clearly being chill, Forrest is being more condescending and escalating quicker.
Forrest reminds me of the "cage stage" that atheist go through (including me).
@@theoneed2051 Matt was very "chill" for this one. Maybe it was the first call of the episode. I was just speaking generally, before watching the clip to completion...
Good cop, bad cop.
I think Forrest is having a drink or two and secretly listening to his favorite music through one earbud.
It is SO PAINFUL to listen to this guy! I sincerely feel so sorry for people around him. Imagine him at your office meeting when he starts talking!
90 percent of all managers are like this ! They read a book, they never understood what the job entails BUT it HAS to be done this way
If someone can't form a coherent sentence I doubt their ability to form a coherent thought. This guy it way out of his depth.
@@het53 more assertions..yawn god boy
And that was word salad at its finest.
word salad ,,, Yes.
but I've heard much better. He's a novice garde manger
I take umbrage with the phrase “Euclidean geometry isn’t true.” Euclidean geometry is just a collection of rules that operate on abstract objects which often model real-world phenomena.
Monopoly (the board game) also models some real-world phenomena but we couldn’t describe it as true or untrue.
The issue here is that the earth doesn’t approximate a plane very well except on small scales where the errors are either smaller than our ability to measure or too small to affect the performance of a design which uses Euclidean geometry.
Yeah, "isn't true" is operating on the same fallacy as "evolution is a theory".
Matt has the patience of a monk.
Chris is way out of his depth here and is clutching at straws. A universal field of consciousness?
Thanks Forrest for trying to cut through the bs.
Chris just can't admit he believes because he wants to be immortal.
Dillahunty has the patience of a bouncing Betty. Except Dillahunty isn't quite as merciful.
Chris in...Chris in...Ch ch ch ch chris in g...Chris in g...Chris in Georgia.
Sounded like Jimmy was trying to make some remix.
I know it was an editing error but it seemed like Jimmy was trying to interrupt the entire call and kept getting talked over. Hahaha
This is THE most boring discussion I have head on this program yet I think, and I suspect Forrest agrees
I hope this audio bug where the first second is repeated regularly won't be in the next videos (no, people, it isn't a subliminal message about kriss angel)
God seems to be not only irrational and illogical but connected to a narcissistic egocentric mindset.
I think Matt and Forrest are my favorite duo on this channel. Matt has amazing rhetoric and skips through the callers bullshit, and Forrest kinda plays the good cop and helps the caller understand and also has an extensive knowledge on a few things Matt isnt the best on, like Evolution.
Can philosophical arguments ever be a way to prove that a god exists without any evidence?
Doesn’t matter they can’t prove anything even with their crappy book 📕🤣😂🤣😂
I assume your question is rhetorical. Otherwise, see answer by @scottjohnson7248
You can't logic God into existence.
If I knew who said that first I would credit them.
No. The very best is a God COULD exist. But so could the tooth fairy, Thor, goblins or Klingons. Arguments are not evidence
I really wish Matt would have more interactions like this. I can understand his frustration with people refusing to answer questions and hearing the same lane arguments but when he is calm and patient I learn so much about the subject he is discussing, great ways to formulate questions and examples, and serves as a prime example of productive discussion.
Advice to theist callers. Be prepared to succinctly and specifically explain what you believe and why. Be prepared to offer a definition of the God you believe in and supply some kind of reason why you believe in that God, and why anyone else should believe it. That is the very minimum requirement. If you are not prepared to do either of those things, you will be shot down in flames, immediately, so don’t bother calling into the show. Also, please listen to at least ten episodes of a show before you call in, so you can get an accurate idea of what to expect. Callers sometimes get frustrated or disoriented when the host asks a question that you haven’t thought about. Then you will accuse the hosts of being unreasonable and combative, which they are not. They just ask questions for clarification, not to embarrass you. Just do your homework before you call.
It would be cool to live in Forest’s head where he has a song going through his head as he listens to the caller. What song are you Bee-Bopping to Forest?
"Watcha Want" by the Beastie Boys.
🎼Where'd ya get your information from, huh? 🎵
They're coming to take me away.
Am I the only one periodically hearing Matt saying, "Chris in Geor..." ???
I think after 40 years of people trying to make excuses,examples and experiences for their god I'm about done with listening to them. Time for adding a new hobby instead of listening to the same old bullshit.
The short version:
Q: Why do you believe in god?
A: I just think it's neat.
I’m an atheist and I’m no fan of any religion, but it seems to me that faith by definition cannot be proven. The core of the problem for me is, God or Gods cannot be proven or disproven, there is no evidence for or against, if you could prove god or gods existed then you would no longer need faith which is why all of these call sound the exact same.
I know it has been a while, but there are exceptions to the notion that God cannot be shown to be real/fake.
The _idea_ of a god cannot be shown, beyond all doubt, to exist or not. However, when the characteristics of a God (its properties, its goals, its historical interactions with reality) CAN be tested, then we now have a path to potentially falsify said being. Thankfully, most religions do that. They attribute things like unlimited power and knowledge, events like a worldwide flood, even direct conversations with humans that are later recorded. In investigating these things, we can learn whether their _version_ of a god is likely to exist or not.
This is the only reason why the problem of evil is actually a problem for the monotheistic religions, since they usually claim their god is all-powerful, all-knowing, and perfectly benevolent. If their god was not all of those things, the problem of evil goes away. Therefor, since the problem of evil exists, such a god is incongruent with reality and is therefor impossible. That doesn't mean a different god doesn't exist, just that their definition of one doesn't. At which point one must ask, why worship a god that cannot exist?
Seems like "I don't know" are hardest words.
2nd hardest.
"I was wrong" for the win.
Look at the trees..oh wait, not like that
Is god hiding behind the trees?
@@freddan6fly Puny god XD
Can't see Forest for the trees
What's with the "Chris in Ge-" soundbyte from the beginning repeating every couple of minutes throughout the video? Did God possess this video or something?
People over-hype consciousness wayyy too much. Thinking about thinking, or being aware of things like your own thoughts isnt all that magical.
I mean as someone with aphantasia I kinda know what its like to not know what red looks like, I can see red and recognize it when I see it again but if i ever were to be in a situation where i can never see red again I would be unable to experience it as i lack the ability to visualize it.
If I am not experiencing something in the moment I cant honestly say i know what its like, yet i can recognize it next time i experience it. Its really hard to explain how it works since there isnt a way for most people to relate to my experience but i think its a good argument against qualia since I cant imagine what its like to experience red yet can recognize it when i do. I think that consciousness is simultaneously much less special/supernatural and much more complex and convoluted then people think.
I mean seriously I cant think in an entire way that most people do yet have little issues stemming from it, I cant imagine the color red, the taste of strawberries, or hear a person speak and am only able to recognize the experience when it happens.
Mary might gain a renewed appreciation for color and her knowledge of it, but she likely won't gain new knowledge.
Is it that hard to say " I don't know"??
“Chris in Geor”
I like to think that whenever I hear that, it’s Matt playing back the start of the call to remind himself what this dudes name is 😂
Forrest is out Matt-ing Matt 😂 "ok bye"🤣
His argument is essentially." I think therefore the universe thinks therefore there must be a god"
Forrest’s chair dancing makes it worthwhile
Poor guy was in way over his head.
"Chris in Ja...!"
The caller wasn't convincing, but at least he was polite.
"Chris in Ge....."
The future is nothing more than the present becoming the past
Listening to this guy was like white noise, just absolutely nothing of value or sense the entire time.
On behalf of all other Chris', I apologize for this ID10T!
You can't have knowledge about something you didn't experience? Um... no, that is not how that works, if that was the way things work then we could have no knowledge of history and school would be 913 years long because you have to experience everything rather than just learn it.
This has NO IDEA what he's talking about, incoherence abounds and his multi syllabic word salad isn't helping him much.. all he had to say was: "I don't know" , and not make a fool of himself
Forrest looking like a stoned gnome lol
Why is that so accurate 😂
What a perfect compliment to him. He's rockin' it, gnome style!
That is because he's under the influence of Roland.
@@stevencahn4019Aha! I just knew that closeted little goblin was gonna create mischief when he ran out of Subway sandwiches!
I wish this had a counter for every time the caller said, “like.”
I regret I have but one "like" to give you
One of the worst calls. Stupid is fine but boring is painful. How do they decide who to cut right off and who to let go on a long journey to nowhere?
Word salad & never ending unevidenced claims
"Chris in Geor-"
That was a rambling mess and the pain on Forrest's face said it all .....
Talk about verbal constipation on grand scale!
CHRIS IN GE
ADORE Forest he seems so friggin fun.
Why do yanks have to keep saying the word 'like' completely inappropriately and unnecessarily
I thought justify belief said Justin Beiber. I'm really tired. Lol
are you not a belieber?
Never say never
I'm glad he explained why he thought the Quallia thought experiment was flawed because I had the same train of thought. Sounds ridiculous to claim to have knowledge about something you've yet to experience.
I never really feel too bad for the people who call in... but I couldn't help but feel a bit bad for this guy and I suspect Matt did a bit too as he went unusually easy on him. He was in way way over his head and seems to have a difficult time putting his thoughts into words. He's one of those guys that takes twenty minutes to get to his point and never really even begins to get there... Not only did he provide zero evidence for the existence of a God, but we were all falling asleep for 28 minutes waiting to get to that obvious fact.
i keep hearing jimmy butting in with one word...
It's very clearly an snippet of matt saying "Chris in G--" that somehow erroneously got spliced into the audio of the rest of the clip.
Chris: oh you're a materialist, but consciousness-
Me, having seen Forrest answer this many times: consciousness is an emergent property of the brain!
I'm glad we can speed videos up on RUclips (press Shift >)
This caller is earnest and sincere and good natured, which is nice because not all of them are, but has a hard time string together coherent thoughts. He just "feels" like God exists because it "seems" to make "sense" to him.
Does Mary learn something about experience? maybe, it is a new experience. Does she learn anything about color? no, she already knows everything about color.
Wow...he was painful to listen to. Props to Matt & Forrest on their patience.
Idk bro when i see red i just get that mentality and people start hitting the floor
My parents are hardcore believers in jesus and god… this is how 100% of our discussions end… yet they still believe… the truth is they don’t care if it’s real or if their believe makes any rational sense, they believe because it makes them feel good and they are afraid of death
God knows that Chris is confused and will help him sort it all out.
😂
Chris in G....
Chris seems like the nicest honestly inquisitive Christian on the show yet, and it's still a waste of time.
13:58 when Forests unenthusiastially says "sure..", you can then see he is just done with this call.
One issue I have as a cognitive scientist is that “consciousness” as we experience it is not the only possibility for intelligent behavior, or experiencing “qualia”.
It’s heavily constrained by our perceptual capacity, working memory, and so on. There’s no reason why another type of consciousness can’t exist that is foreign to us.
Humans seem to have two kinds of conciousness.
Some people have running internal dialogs and are amazed to find out some don't. And the ones that don't are surprised that some do.
Thing to remember: Almost every theistic caller was indoctrinated as a child. The arguments they present are almost NEVER the reason for being the credulous believer that they present. Ergo, citing arguments misses the whole point to Matt's recurring question: "Why do you believe?" And it is never because of intelligent design, consciousness, or any other attempt to justify the unfounded beliefs professed... Which also explains why their explanation NEVER answers the question of why to believe.
Consciousness is in everything.
08:03 May you, too, one day find the joy Forrest has found in realizing the (necessary) absurdity of dealing with religion.
Rational Justification Requires Falsification. There is nothing to believe. Know or not. Intellectual honesty is important. The only thing to know is to know not. God is an illogical, irrational, and asinine concept. To say therefore is a logical fallacy. I am a high school loser drop out, and even I comprehend the rules of logic pertaining to EPISTEMOLOGY! Ignorance + dishonesty = GAWD✌️
Astronomers used Euclidian geometry to deduct that the universe is flat and infinite.
It seems to me that when people offer a "Yeah No" answer they are inadvertently and simultaneously admitting their belief in something and their suspension of disbelief for a lack of any evidence they have for that something.
🤣🤣🤣
Oh dear.
Culturally “yeah no” just means “no” where I come from… it is constantly used in every day speech.
When we want to say yes, we say “nah yeah”.
@nickguy8037 my cultural dialect includes " Yeah, no fer sure" which means definitely
Possibly the most eloquently I've ever heard you speak, Matt.
@@het53 Truth is proven by evidence. You know what evidence is, don't you? It is what you are unable to provide for the existence of your god.
@@het53 zzz..BORING
All these useless drawn out preambles from callers and in the end is just a weak ass argument... NEVER do they get to the point OR are able to answer a straight question
“I can’t go into too many details” -Chris.
Can’t you tho?? 😂😂😂
please try to make your audio levels consistent throughout the entire video.scared the bejesus out of me just after 27:30
The way Forrest is about to piss himself laughing throughout most of the call🤣
CHRIS IN JUH!
He's been listening to Deepak Chopra.....
forrest wiggling around and fidgeting through this is so cute. i feel like i've heard this exact caller tens of times