And yet per Secundum Tolkien, Galadriel never journeyed into the west till the 3rd Age, and spent here time building alliances and realms during the second age. The strategic genius that is no where to be found in Rings of "heretical" power.
The relationship between the dwarves and elves should have been one of the primary focuses of the show. They need to show (not tell in another boring back and forth with poorly written dialogue) how close the elves Eregior were with Durin's folk (and they could have done a lot more with that, leading to the construction of the famous Durin's door).
So... “You have not seen what I have seen.” It’s so stupid it could be amusingly good if it were not for the vast waste of money and lore because with such resources we could have had hours of amazing content in Middle Earth.
I think one of the things this show suffers from is that it introduces a ton of characters, people groups, and locations but doesn’t spend enough time in any of them to flesh them out and make them feel as real and alive as they need to in order for the bigger beats later to hit as hard as they should. All except for the harfoots, that is. Their culture, lifestyle, characters and relationships all feel pretty fully fleshed out by the end of season 1. Fortunately season 2 seems to be fixing that, as we spend more time in London, Eregion, Numenor, etc. These places are beginning to feel more fully realized. Unfortunately for season one, for example, we don’t know the durins well enough yet by the time they come to blows for that moment to have the impact that it should. And we only barely get to know the southlanders before their home is destroyed. The show could have benefited from another episode or two toward the beginning to develop characters and flesh out their worlds a little more, but I think the writers were struggling with content because the source material is already thin and they chose to focus on their new characters instead. It’s almost like they put all their effort into the harfoot storyline to the neglect of other, arguably more important storylines. That being said, I think I enjoyed this episode a little more than you did. By this point I’m still just salivating at every little glimps of the Tolkien’s world that I can get. The introduction to Numenor still gives me chills. I think they deserve some credit for bringing to life a civilization of such mythic proportion. It’s literally Tolkien’s Atlantis. And, visually speaking, they did it flawlessly.
My beef with the Dwarves, and especially Disa, is their coarseness and vulgarity. (Don 't get me wrong, she is warm and lovable and her visual design is great -- she is just coarse). Related, the crudity of the rock-breaking challenge. It's a fairy-tale task like, oh, a riddle-game. There are conventions for such things: -- the stakes must be very high. E.g. death if you lose. If you win, wealth beyond the dreams of avarice, three wishes, something like that. -- no-one has ever succeeded -- there is a special, magical way of winning. E.g. the ball of thread Ariadne gives to Theseus, so he can find his way out of the labyrinth. (There is a really obscure reference to this in The Hobbit when Bilbo calls himself the "clue-finder", clue being the name for such a thing). What better to break rocks with than the most magical hammer ever, Feanor's, WHICH WE HAVE JUST SEEN?
I was able to watch the full season on release, but that was more about enthusiasm for more Tokien than anything. The best part I think are the protoHobbits story. Overall just bad writing. Later on my favorite part is when Galadriel is going to kill a prisoner, not kill a prisoner, kill a prisoner, not kill a prisoner, and maybe more in the same scene.
The suspense isn't created because we already know that that Galadriel survives, the suspense is created, because we don't know HOW she survives (so to speak in this series). The point of her scenes in the water are about world building and how does she get out of this? Who saves her? Water itself is usually a metaphor for either dreams/consciousness and/or the unknown (fear) and if you ever make it to the end of the season you moight understand better the choice of it, since all of those things are achieved or foreshadowed here and also go back to the boat metaphor...
It's only suspenseful if you get a clever solution. But just the fact that Galadriel jumps into the water when she should know that it'll kill her if she's not super lucky takes out all tension. It's a dumb decision and it's contrived as an action, so the follow-up can't be anything else but contrived as well. And then she happens to come across both Sauron and Elendil in the whole wide ocean. How did she get out of this? Because the writers said so.
I don't thingk ROP as a prequel is a story where you have suspense for suspense sake, because most watching know most of the outcomes, It's suspense has to be generated through the how of the story, which has more to do with relationships and how they square away with their individual and goup-oriented philosophical beliefs about the reality or morallity they claim to believe in. I think it is clever from a philosophical perspective, which IMO is what is driving the story and not the other way around. Halbrand is framed as an anti-villian, where he does some questionable things, but yet he never flat out lies or where one could see him in a good, but misunderstood light. So when he kills everyone on the raft and saves Galadriel, he's immediately redeemed by her, because more than simply he being a love interest, she is desperate to see herself reflected (like well-made polished jewelry) in someone else, so she can tell herself that she's good or just misplaced, so she keeps projecting what she hopes about herself onto him, and Halbrand simply says, he killed them to survive -- and being a survivor is what Galadriel (her mind) would be suscepticle to. This sets up everything and begins to test the nature of good vs evil...and how it is made, when you have a pragmatic good-looking mostly honest evil-doer with a blood thursty grieving blind-raged traumitized good-doer. That is what made the scene good/interesting/suspenseful (its better on the rewatch IMO). Yes, well, I think characters being in right place at the right time is the only way to keep some of the story moving, because it has so many characters, but I also think that it is not like Tolkein or LOTR mythos does not struggle in understanding or anyone being able to crtique it's own themes. The mythos is offering up metaphysical things in which characters are somewhat fated and/or stars are aligning, which is what adds to the eerieness aspects of the story and how conviennet some things are, because even if there is some sense of free will, there are also "larger" forces at play. And also whether Tolkein struggled with his belief himself (as there are quite of bit of back and forth on some things in his essays and such), his son/family have a different understanding, and/or a modern audience has the right to critique religious or moral ideas that might be outdated, which may be why the writters have gone into this so obviously in the weeds of the morally gray here, along with the medium this story is being told, there are legitimate reasons for why it would have to rely on plot conviences, which IMO is not the point of Tolkein anyway, even though it does make for some occational pacing issues. I rather have that though with have good character dynamics in which the plot reflects them, then gloss over relationships for a realisitic or perfectly logical plot.
Toxic posivity is real. I finished the first season because I liked the dwarves scamming the elves, and gandalf beating those femcels. You mention trying season 2, but criticize parts of the first season and you get called names and banned/blocked by people who think the show is a canon masterpiece. It's not canon, they stated that clearly.
Being very unkind to Galadriel to call the character in this show "Galadriel". > I thought Galadriel was played very well in the series and I'm looking forward to the sequel I could not care about any evaluation of the person acting the role. I thought the character was *written* EXCEPTIONALLY POORLY throughout the entire series and I'm looking forward to the laughing fits resulting from the exceptionally low ratings it'll get.
I also found the raft sequences boring. Episode 2 was my least favorite episode of Season 1 as a result. The show gets much better, in my opinion, while still being far from perfect; others' mileage may vary. On a rewatch, I was surprised that Largo Brandyfoot broke his ankle this early in the season; I hadn't remembered that as being the case.
I loved the ancestors of the Hobbits and I'm excited to see how the journey with the magician continues. Of course I watched the first season and was thrilled.
@@troffle I don't really care who the people are or where they come from, I like them and the characters they introduce, which unfortunately I can't say about you and your answers.
Real Tolkien fans should probably get back to their books only, because it seems they do not care about anything and keep on discssing boring lore stuff. Instead I don't care about the books snd just enjoy the show. Season one was great and season two will be amazing, at least for me. PS: I care about all characters.
@@Khetaz Nothing can go wrotng, I just enjoy the show. I think many people criticize just for the sake of it, sometimes probably in the hope that it will generate more clicks. To me, it seems as if some RUclipsrs have forgotten how to be entertained by a series.
Read the first 10 chapters of BONESONG: Diary of a Sentient Sword for Free! www.amazon.com/kindle-vella/story/B0DC3J555G
And yet per Secundum Tolkien, Galadriel never journeyed into the west till the 3rd Age, and spent here time building alliances and realms during the second age. The strategic genius that is no where to be found in Rings of "heretical" power.
The relationship between the dwarves and elves should have been one of the primary focuses of the show. They need to show (not tell in another boring back and forth with poorly written dialogue) how close the elves Eregior were with Durin's folk (and they could have done a lot more with that, leading to the construction of the famous Durin's door).
Agreed. I would have loved that
Love your takes on this show!
Alright, I'm in. I never got past the first two episodes when it first came out. Keep posting so I can see if I should give it another chance!:)
So... “You have not seen what I have seen.”
It’s so stupid it could be amusingly good if it were not for the vast waste of money and lore because with such resources we could have had hours of amazing content in Middle Earth.
Spoilers: Do Not waste your time. It’s baaaaad.
I think one of the things this show suffers from is that it introduces a ton of characters, people groups, and locations but doesn’t spend enough time in any of them to flesh them out and make them feel as real and alive as they need to in order for the bigger beats later to hit as hard as they should. All except for the harfoots, that is. Their culture, lifestyle, characters and relationships all feel pretty fully fleshed out by the end of season 1. Fortunately season 2 seems to be fixing that, as we spend more time in London, Eregion, Numenor, etc. These places are beginning to feel more fully realized. Unfortunately for season one, for example, we don’t know the durins well enough yet by the time they come to blows for that moment to have the impact that it should. And we only barely get to know the southlanders before their home is destroyed. The show could have benefited from another episode or two toward the beginning to develop characters and flesh out their worlds a little more, but I think the writers were struggling with content because the source material is already thin and they chose to focus on their new characters instead. It’s almost like they put all their effort into the harfoot storyline to the neglect of other, arguably more important storylines. That being said, I think I enjoyed this episode a little more than you did. By this point I’m still just salivating at every little glimps of the Tolkien’s world that I can get. The introduction to Numenor still gives me chills. I think they deserve some credit for bringing to life a civilization of such mythic proportion. It’s literally Tolkien’s Atlantis. And, visually speaking, they did it flawlessly.
My beef with the Dwarves, and especially Disa, is their coarseness and vulgarity. (Don 't get me wrong, she is warm and lovable and her visual design is great -- she is just coarse). Related, the crudity of the rock-breaking challenge. It's a fairy-tale task like, oh, a riddle-game. There are conventions for such things:
-- the stakes must be very high. E.g. death if you lose. If you win, wealth beyond the dreams of avarice, three wishes, something like that.
-- no-one has ever succeeded
-- there is a special, magical way of winning. E.g. the ball of thread Ariadne gives to Theseus, so he can find his way out of the labyrinth. (There is a really obscure reference to this in The Hobbit when Bilbo calls himself the "clue-finder", clue being the name for such a thing). What better to break rocks with than the most magical hammer ever, Feanor's, WHICH WE HAVE JUST SEEN?
I was able to watch the full season on release, but that was more about enthusiasm for more Tokien than anything. The best part I think are the protoHobbits story. Overall just bad writing. Later on my favorite part is when Galadriel is going to kill a prisoner, not kill a prisoner, kill a prisoner, not kill a prisoner, and maybe more in the same scene.
Professor Alani is an expert on middle earth 🧝♂️
I would never claim to be an expert, but I get the impression that I know more than the writers of this show.
@@AlaniTheScriptMage That's a low bar
@@Dennis19901 The bar is so low, it would startle a Balrog who hadn't expected stepping on it.
@@AlaniTheScriptMageyou know your subject. Maybe not Christopher Lee level, but a hell of a lot better than I could do.👍
Stonesong!
The suspense isn't created because we already know that that Galadriel survives, the suspense is created, because we don't know HOW she survives (so to speak in this series). The point of her scenes in the water are about world building and how does she get out of this? Who saves her? Water itself is usually a metaphor for either dreams/consciousness and/or the unknown (fear) and if you ever make it to the end of the season you moight understand better the choice of it, since all of those things are achieved or foreshadowed here and also go back to the boat metaphor...
It's only suspenseful if you get a clever solution. But just the fact that Galadriel jumps into the water when she should know that it'll kill her if she's not super lucky takes out all tension. It's a dumb decision and it's contrived as an action, so the follow-up can't be anything else but contrived as well. And then she happens to come across both Sauron and Elendil in the whole wide ocean. How did she get out of this? Because the writers said so.
I don't thingk ROP as a prequel is a story where you have suspense for suspense sake, because most watching know most of the outcomes, It's suspense has to be generated through the how of the story, which has more to do with relationships and how they square away with their individual and goup-oriented philosophical beliefs about the reality or morallity they claim to believe in.
I think it is clever from a philosophical perspective, which IMO is what is driving the story and not the other way around. Halbrand is framed as an anti-villian, where he does some questionable things, but yet he never flat out lies or where one could see him in a good, but misunderstood light. So when he kills everyone on the raft and saves Galadriel, he's immediately redeemed by her, because more than simply he being a love interest, she is desperate to see herself reflected (like well-made polished jewelry) in someone else, so she can tell herself that she's good or just misplaced, so she keeps projecting what she hopes about herself onto him, and Halbrand simply says, he killed them to survive -- and being a survivor is what Galadriel (her mind) would be suscepticle to. This sets up everything and begins to test the nature of good vs evil...and how it is made, when you have a pragmatic good-looking mostly honest evil-doer with a blood thursty grieving blind-raged traumitized good-doer. That is what made the scene good/interesting/suspenseful (its better on the rewatch IMO).
Yes, well, I think characters being in right place at the right time is the only way to keep some of the story moving, because it has so many characters, but I also think that it is not like Tolkein or LOTR mythos does not struggle in understanding or anyone being able to crtique it's own themes. The mythos is offering up metaphysical things in which characters are somewhat fated and/or stars are aligning, which is what adds to the eerieness aspects of the story and how conviennet some things are, because even if there is some sense of free will, there are also "larger" forces at play. And also whether Tolkein struggled with his belief himself (as there are quite of bit of back and forth on some things in his essays and such), his son/family have a different understanding, and/or a modern audience has the right to critique religious or moral ideas that might be outdated, which may be why the writters have gone into this so obviously in the weeds of the morally gray here, along with the medium this story is being told, there are legitimate reasons for why it would have to rely on plot conviences, which IMO is not the point of Tolkein anyway, even though it does make for some occational pacing issues. I rather have that though with have good character dynamics in which the plot reflects them, then gloss over relationships for a realisitic or perfectly logical plot.
Where is Galadriel’s Dagger that’s what I’d like to know! 😂
On her finger, at least a part of it.
Toxic posivity is real. I finished the first season because I liked the dwarves scamming the elves, and gandalf beating those femcels. You mention trying season 2, but criticize parts of the first season and you get called names and banned/blocked by people who think the show is a canon masterpiece. It's not canon, they stated that clearly.
Your being very kind calling that woman person galadriel.
And you are very unkind to deny the actress that. I thought Galadriel was played very well in the series and I'm looking forward to the sequel.
Being very unkind to Galadriel to call the character in this show "Galadriel".
> I thought Galadriel was played very well in the series and I'm looking forward to the sequel
I could not care about any evaluation of the person acting the role. I thought the character was *written* EXCEPTIONALLY POORLY throughout the entire series and I'm looking forward to the laughing fits resulting from the exceptionally low ratings it'll get.
@@SFAutor No the actress, the adapted character. I really like Morfydd Clark.
It's rubbish - RoP is just a vehicle for the writers and cast to preen themselves for the adoration of their audience.
I also found the raft sequences boring. Episode 2 was my least favorite episode of Season 1 as a result. The show gets much better, in my opinion, while still being far from perfect; others' mileage may vary.
On a rewatch, I was surprised that Largo Brandyfoot broke his ankle this early in the season; I hadn't remembered that as being the case.
To be honest, I didn't find any episode boring. The episode on the raft got another significant flashback with Sauron.
The proto hobbits kinda remind me of the borrowers. I agree alot of the characters are bland. tbf I stopped watching after ep 4.
I loved the ancestors of the Hobbits and I'm excited to see how the journey with the magician continues. Of course I watched the first season and was thrilled.
@@SFAutor Harfoots are not Hobbit "ancestors". They are Hobbits. What an absolute load of garbage.
@@troffle I don't really care who the people are or where they come from, I like them and the characters they introduce, which unfortunately I can't say about you and your answers.
Real Tolkien fans should probably get back to their books only, because it seems they do not care about anything and keep on discssing boring lore stuff. Instead I don't care about the books snd just enjoy the show. Season one was great and season two will be amazing, at least for me. PS: I care about all characters.
Sure, a show based on books, made for people that don't care about said books. What could go wrong ?
@@Khetaz Nothing can go wrotng, I just enjoy the show. I think many people criticize just for the sake of it, sometimes probably in the hope that it will generate more clicks. To me, it seems as if some RUclipsrs have forgotten how to be entertained by a series.
@@SFAutor I watched the first 3 episodes going blind and the writing was so bad it made me angry. So I stopped.
One million flies...
@@Khetaz I watched the first episode and already knew, that I will enjoy all five seasons planned. 🥰