its amazons way of telling younger people if they dont get thqair way they should suicide. Completely idiotic scene, if they wanted to show a strong women who are a commander of the 5 northern armies then they should have made her turn the boat around by pulling rank and charisma. But naaaah, jump overboard some 2000-3000 miles from the where she was sent from. Thats how to portray a strong woman albeit a mentally challaned one. It made me laugh thou.
Honestly I think the main reason for the elves design in the show is they have absolutely no clue what qualities distinguish elves from humans other than "they have pointy ears" so they make sure the ears are visible
I love how the actors in the movies talk about how during filming they all just naturally „sat with their own“ the actors were sought out to have personalities that fit the race portrayed. Love the visuals of Jackson’s films even if I’m still not 100% convinced on some changes to characters
Also they are "epic" and "awe-inspiring" and "wise and "elegant." While also showing they are "flawed." But execution is everything, and their execution was...just a bit short of the mark. And don't even get me started on the mess that was their attempt to distinguish the southern sylvan Elves from the Noldor. But weirdly, I still find Grannybrimbor a slightly better casting choice than Marshmallow Manager Gil-Galad.
You need a whole video on how much they've done Galadriel (and female elves in general) wrong. Galadriel is one of only 2 named female elves who returned to Middle Earth with the Noldor. The rest of the named female elves (including Feanor's own wife) were always wiser, more rational, and better able to control their emotional impulses, so they stayed among the Valar rather than go to Middle Earth on a dangerous and reckless quest bounds by blood oath. Galadriel was my favorite character because (despite not being as fleshed out as some of the other more famous characters until Lord of the Rings), she only once ever took up arms and engaged in violence. Her power was ALWAYS knowing how to avoid bloodshed and violence. Her wisdom was instrumental in keeping Lothlorien together (so much so that when their king died they named her the Lady of the Wood). Lothlorien was a haven for all elves fleeing from the chaos of the War of the Silmarils, and the lives she saved are innumerable. She was constantly in a battle between her wisdom and her ambition (she was Feanor's niece, and did inherit some of the ambition that so many others of her family). That's why the part in the Lord of the Rings where Frodo offers her the ring is so powerful. Frodo offered her the one thing would would grant her the power to achieve all of her ambition, and she passed the test, setting aside her ambition because her wisdom allowed her to see the costs and give her the strength to do the right thing. A couple fun bits about Galadriel that I love: She is only 1 of 3 characters in all of Tolkien's works capable of making Lembas. And the only one who was not a Valar or Maiar. Feanor was enamored by Galadriel's beauty in her youth (even before crafting the Silmarils). He once asked for a strand of her hair which he wanted to craft into crystal. He asked 3 times. She refused 3 times. When Gimli asked her for a strand of her hair, she laughed and gave him 3. There was never any question who would get Nenya (the elven ring crafted by Celibrimbor of which she was custodian). It was the ring of restoration and protection from evil. Sorry to ramble. Tolkien is one of the subjects I can spend hours and hours rambling about, and Galadriel is in my top 3 characters (along with Luthien and Finrod). Once it starts, it's hard to stop. Have watched a couple vids. Will be watching more. Liked and subscribed. *edit for typos
What are you talking about, Galadriel is basically Xena as described by Tolkien himself, here are some examples: - She is explicitly pointed out to be *the strongest Amazonian woman,* a match for the princes of the High Elves in strength and valor. - "Her mother-name was Nerwen *'man-maiden',* and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, *a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth."* - "Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the contending princes" - "She was called Nerwen ‘man-maiden’ because of her strength and stature, and her courage." (NoME) And she was known to be a bit proud and foolhardy in her youth. Yes, I completely agree that the show did a bad job at portraying this, but no Tolkien fan should have trouble grasping what lore they were drawing inspiration from there.
@@TheSaltyAdmiral That is all looking for confirmation bias. He uses "amazonian" to describe her physically (and was never called the strongest). "Amazonian" is an adjective to describe her PHYSICALLY, not to describe her temperment or character. Yes he does portray her as taller, nimbler, and faster (and having a deeper more melodic voice) than most female elves, specifically linking it to her prowess in athletic games. But athletic contests have nothing to do with violence. There was no real violence at that time (for the children of Iluvatar, anyway); Morgoth had not even gotten the elves to craft swords yet. She was never even included in any of the hunts of the era (or any age). You keep assuming that because she was physically stronger, that means she is violent/a warrior, despite that not being the case. Size and prowess at war are are not linked together much in Tolkien's works. Sometimes the best warriors were the biggest and toughest, sometimes the most nimble, sometimes the most practiced and disciplined, sometimes the best at avoiding attention, etc., etc. In the first age, when her brothers were building kingdoms and fortresses and fighting the forces of Morgoth, she was mostly with Melian, learning from her and gaining ever more wisdom and strength (and by strength I mean strength of character, as was the case when Tolkien was when he spoke of her equaling the strength of the princes). The lore they were "drawing from" (if they cared about lore at all, of which I saw zero evidence during the first season) was from before the first age even began. Galadriel is well over 4000 years old before the second age even began, hardly an impetuous youth. Yes, she still had issues with pride and ambition (which is why her role in LOTR was all the more impactful), but she was never a hot-headed, anger-fueled, impulsive, bash everyone who is bad kind of person at all (not even when she was an impetuous youth). I don't understand why people are so invested in her being a violent warrior. It's not like that quality is good or bad in itself, or reflects any kind of strength other than brute force. I know people love mindless action movies, but if you want Tolkien, than mindless action is not what you are looking for (Tolkien often pairs the most prolific warriors as reckless fools who make everything worse, which seems to me he is trying to point out that trying to solve all your problems by bashing them on the head is maybe not the best way).
@@TheSaltyAdmiral I just realized my tone probably comes of as me being a real jerk, which is not my intent (and I apologize if I did offend). I just think it shows how much stronger Galadriel is when you know she is as physically powerful as the best male warriors, but she has the wisdom and self-control they all lack. While some of the biggest heroes of the first age were mighty warriors, almost every one of them comes to a brutal violent end because they do NOT have the wisdom, restraint, and foresight to stop themselves from charging into death because they allow their anger and rage to make the decisions. Tolkien, contrary to much popular belief, generally considered women to be the stronger sex. Tolkien considered strength to be so much more than just the physical; Morgoth was repeatedly described as the strongest and most powerful being other than Eru, and no one would consider him to have strength of character at all (and there is very little written to show him having any wisdom or self-control. The reason there are so few female elven characters is because most of the histories of Middle Earth are focused on how even the most heroic of the male characters constantly lacked wisdom, and most of the history is fallout from their rash decisions. Whereas the female elves (including Feanor's own wife) refused to get sucked into the hotheaded anger and rage that took so many Noldor away from Valinor. The history of Middle Earth is largely about how the men kept making things worse by thinking the best course of action was in violent confrontation and how (more often than not) it was the women who were left cleaning up the mess (while the men were planning their next combative approach).
Galadriel decides to kill said Troll = Galadriel looks at the Troll, an expression of absolute mind-numbing terror briefly crosses its faces before it clutches its chest and expires.
@@chrissmith7669 If youre talking about the One Ring, it didnt exist until the Second Age. The First Age was all about Morgoth, Sauron didnt create the rings until after Morgoth was defeated. Unless Im very much mistaken. I believe when Sauron was defeated and Isildur took the One Ring for himself was the beginning of the Third Age.
Galadriel's ocean voyage is even more ridiculous when it ends. She left Lindon when Celebrimbor was still alive, and was pulled out of the sea by Elendil the Tall. It's like she boarded a ship for America from Rome, under the reign of Caesar Augustus, jumped out near the shore of America and started swimming home, only to be picked up by a ship whose captain was Christopher Columbus.
@@ironinthesoul9680 Even with a „compressed timeline“ this doesn‘t make sense. No vessel without the explicit permission by the Valar can reach Valinors shores so what is a human vessel doing there? There shouldn‘t be a ship, much less a ship manned by human outcasts. Ether we accept that Galadriel swam back from valinor to seas controlled by numenorians which would be insane or those guys where already sailing to their doom and she randomly met the only ship full of fanatical Valinor seeking Numenorians. That she randomly met Sauron on this trip is just the icing on this cake of contrived BS.
I’ve always said the scene of Galadriel jumping ship - unlike some of the other whoppers in the writing - would have been fine as a leap of faith, and totally in line with other Tolkien stories - such as Ulmo’s mission given to Tuor to go to Gondolin in the Silmarillion - if only it had a clear inciting incident. Like if one of those Valinorian sea parrot things flying around just then looking pretty had landed on her shoulder as a messenger from one of the Valar and whispered in her ear that she had a mission to accomplish back in middle earth. Or maybe a fish messenger had stuck its head out just at that moment and told her to jump ship and leave her fate in Ulmo’s hands. That would have been what, 30 seconds at most, and suddenly everything is epic, not stupid. Instead it just seemed like churlishness on her part, doubling down on her TV show personality. At any rate the idea that she would be willing to make this leap of faith to save middle earth would have gone down far easier if her character had been shown to have an ounce of genuine selfless compassion for others prior to this choice. But for me the heart of the problem with the writing is perfectly encapsulated by churlish Galadriel and conflicted Sauron. These choices are, as Tolkien himself warned in his lecture “On Fairy Stories”, antithetical to the genre. He described them as a kind of knowing “winking” at the audience that immediately kicks you out of the spell of “the realm of faerie”. In this case it is the suggestion that G an S are just regular people that have flaws that need to be sussed out in modern style psychological trauma terms. That might have been an amusing and interesting deconstruction of Tolkien - in far more intelligent hands - but in every case this type of thing ruins the show AS a fairy story, or anything that FEELS like Tolkien. I think this type of thing is a land mine waiting for anyone trying to adapt Tolkien, especially if the writers don’t understand how Tolkien works as a thing distinct from their undergraduate script classes. There are good and bad story choices and pros and cons that can be debated, but this is the original sin you just can’t get around. I think most people who come to the show loving Tolkien will instantly feel the difference in tone and feel betrayed, even if they have trouble putting their finger on the exact reasons right away.
Galadriel's primary trait in The Silmarillion is *not* that "she doesn't swear stupid oaths." It's true, she doesn't swear the reckless oath. This is really important. Instead, she is motivated by pride and ambition and the desire to rule a land "of her own will." Tolkien says she was swayed by Feanor's words, and was "the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the contending princes, [and] was eager to be gone." While her father Finarfin repented and returned to Valinor, Galadriel was a primary leader in the journey through Helcaraxe, and she admits to Melian that she came against the will of the Valar, specifically "to take vengeance upon Morgoth." Besides her ambition (which lends so much weight to her choice in The Fellowship of the Ring), another of her primary traits is that unlike all the other elves, she was opposed to Annatar while they were taken in. And none of this takes into account how Tolkien described Galadriel in his drafts that did not make Christopher's cut in The Silmarillion ("Amazon disposition," named "man-maiden" by her mother, "a match for...the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth," the name Galadriel coming from said athletic competitions, etc.). My issue with her motivation in the TV show really is that she's obsessed with her opposition to Sauron; there is no focus on her ambition and efforts to create realms and kingdoms where she is the central power and influence.
How about the utter stupidity of having Galadriel regret going to Valinor, because her brother is buried in Lindon for some reason? Setting aside that it is nowhere near where he died, and thus would have no reason to be buried there, and the lands where he DID die sunk beneath the sea, is the fact that when elves die, their spirits remain IN the world, and go to the Halls of Mandos, where they wait until they are returned to life in restored bodies. Finrod is one of two elves about whom we are reasonably certain have been returned to life. By going to Valinor, Galadriel will have the best chance of meeting him, either in the flesh, or on visiting day in the Halls of Mandos. FFS the only reason her father was born was because his father's dead wife came back from the Halls for a consult on his potential remarriage to Galadriel's grandmother. Like, the whole family should be VERY aware of the possibility of meeting read relatives in Valinor! As far as permission goes, the Valar forbade the Noldor from returning for the rest of the first age, but after Earandil won their aid for Middle Earth and they fought the War of Wrath, the ban was rescinded and the Noldor and the Moriquendi were invited to come to Valinor. So either way, permission is not Gil-Galad's to grant. Either the Noldor, or at least their leaders, of whom Galadriel is the last remaining, are still under the Ban, which Gil-Galad cannot gainsay (remember, Eonwe refused to judge Sauron, who was of the same order as he, therefore, in spiritual matters, pertaining to one's standing with the Valar, one Elf cannot judge or pardon another Elf, just as one Maia could not sentence or pardon another Maia), or else the Ban has been lifted and Gil-Galad's grant of permission is both superfluous and presumptuous.
On Galadriel's traits: there's more material about Galadriel and her traits to be found in Unfinished Tales, "Of the History of Galadriel and Celeborn".
@@AlaniTheScriptMage There are more traits to her in Silmarillion if im not misstaken but they are open for interpretation. By the way she is described she is also ambitious, vain and also to some extent arrogant. Wise is not really the word id use but highly intelligent. Also there are some description of her being somewhat telepathic and sometimes she is not. Tolkien seems a bit back and forth on this.
Unfinished Tales has so much phenomenal source material. One of the most underrated of the releases, though it is best if you know the patches it is filling in (so not for beginners).
Good luck with your blood pressure. I don't think I could rewatch this series, it is triggering enough to watch these reviews. :P There are very few things that the show gets right, and it is actively undercutting itself every chance it gets. For example, I did like the difference of an elf's lifespan compared to a dwarf, and Elrond's apology, showing his wisdom, but this is undercut by him lying to his friend... and besides, it should have been Celebrimbor and Narvi. The murder-hobbits' festival sounds nice "Nobody walks alone, Nobody left behind." And then they have a list of people they left behind to die, and are actively trying to do it to some of their own due to a twisted ankle. So much for looking after each other. These are pretty much the polar opposite to how Tolkien described the hobbits during the Long Winter, their compassion and kindness towards one another. As Gandalf puts it: "And then there was the Shire-folk. I began to have a warm place in my heart for them in the Long Winter, which none of you can remember. They were very hard put to it then: one of the worst pinches they have been in, dying of cold, and starving in the dreadful dearth that followed. But that was the time to see their courage, and their pity one for another. It was by their pity as much as their tough uncomplaining courage that they survived." And of course they butchered the whole Second Age Timeline, shuffled things out of order (the forging of the rings), etc. It is a terrible show.
100% agree. The things they almost get right is why this is so frustrating. You can almost see a story that works, hidden among everything else, and it is maddening watching the writers screw themselves over at almost every opportunity.
Minor correction, Alani: Elrond didn't see his family murdered. When the Fëanorians attacked the havens, Eärendil (Elrond's father) was away at sea. Elwing (Elrond's mother) jumped into the sea wearing the Nauglamír with the Silmaril to save it from the Fëanorians, but she survived because Ulmo transformed her into a seabird. Elrond and his brother Elros may have seen this happen and may even have seen their mother flying away as a bird; Tolkien does not tell us. (In one account Elrond and Elros were abandoned in a cave and subsequently rescued, but this may have happened after Elwing's escape.) After Elwing found Eärendil aboard his ship and reverted to her true form, Eärendil and Elwing made the tough decision (which readers may find incomprehensible, but of which Tolkien seemingly approved, or at any rate never criticized) to sail West to Valinor rather than attempting to rescue their sons, believing that the situation in Middle-earth was now so dire that an intervention without the aid of the Valar was hopeless. Elrond and Elros presumably learned that their parents were still alive when the armies of the Valar came to Middle-earth for the War of Wrath; Elrond certainly knew in later ages that his father was alive and had become the Evening Star.
Thank you for the clarification! I knew as I was saying it that I wasn't wording it quite right. I knew Elwing had thrown herself into the sea. That's why I drew her throwing herself off the screen. I kind of meant "household" when I said family but my original point is almost strengthened by the truth: Elrond's life was not rosy and cheerful.
Well,..he and his twin brother would have witnessed a horrifying third Kinslaying, the "cruelest slaying of Elf by Elf" so a massacre of entire people. Then the workers of said massacre had sheltered them..then comes the disastrous War of Wrath..and Elrond in book says he remembers those banners and the host of Valinor coming in!
Very brave of you to try again. Can't wait till we can all enjoy the teleports, continuity mistakes, space bending ships and cotton shirts painted as chainmail together as a group. Maybe on a rewatch we will finally understand why did the elves forge a dam lever as a blood sucking clearly cursed sword xD
Re the bully *elf-children, you are correct: "Their families, or houses, were held together by love and a deep feeling for kinship in mind and body; and the children needed little governing or teaching." Morgoth's Ring, Laws and Customs Among the Eldar
Precisely. Even though I could not recall the precise quote, I nevertheless felt a profound wrongness when watching that. Thank you for remembering the passage for me:)
Honestly, the ship thing wasn't even the Noldor, it was Feanor himself ordering it, against the wishes of his eldest son, Maedhros, and to prevent any of their followers from returning to Aman. The vast majority of the Noldor were the VICTIMS of his ship burning, because it forced them to endure the march across the Helcaraxe. On top of the stuff about wanton destruction. Which was dead on balls accurate. "Love not too well the work of thy hands" was the warning Ulmo gave the two Noldorin leaders he trusted the most, and 50% of them failed to heed it.
I don’t understand why they’re making a series set in the Second Age when they only have the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and the show relies solely on the appendices from The Return of the King. Without the rights to The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, it makes no sense and only causes confusion, especially for people who haven’t read the books and might think Rings of Power is the true lore and took place before Peter Jackson’s trilogies. If they have the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, why not make a series that faithfully adapts the books 1:1? I just can’t understand that. They’re just inventing their own story based on Tolkien’s work.
I get what you're saying. But its like you said for people who never read the books, if it interests them enough. And they decide to pick up the books. How is that a bad thing? Also, the books will always be there. They aren't going anywhere. Its not like Jeff Bezos is going to come knocking on your door and give you a new edition of Lord of the Rings with Rings of Power lore, lol. I learned a long time ago to not let stuff like this get to me. I got the Shadow of Mordor games and was a little confused on the changes they made. When I stopped myself, and just said enjoy it for what it is. Thats what I'm doing with Rings of Power.
@@Spideyfan1985 The problem is RoP isn't even good if you don't think about the books. The characters suck, the story doesn't make any sense, the dialogue is horrible and even the acting is mediocre in some parts. The only thing it has going for it are the visuals and only if you don't mind the extensive CGI
They probably bought the rights to what they could get as a way to get a built in audience. The references to Peter Jackson's adaptation are many. For instance, they can't name Gandalf, so they have a "not" Gandalf character etc. Besides the issue of inserting DEI all through ROP, thus making it look like the Western World, yet not Middle Earth is a big mistake. Their biggest mistake, though, was thinking they could just write an expansion on Tolkien's writings and ideas. This show has some of the worst writing I've ever witnessed from any show in any era.
From the point of view of who's never read nothing, I want to know what they understand from that prologue and most important why in episode 5 there's a elf fighting with a balrog that wants a Silmaril. They didn't even mention why the Silmarils are important for Melkor, who's Melkor and why he stolen the light from two Trees in Valinor.
You don't have to be a Tolkien expert to see what a disaster RoP is. Even taken generically as a TV show, the writing - especially the dialogue - is atrocious. The amateurishness ranges from silly attempts at profundity to statements that make no sense whatsoever. It sounds like it was written by high schoolers.
You NAILED it! D&D elves - only, in D&D an alignment change (forgive me, I haven't played since the 80s) was punished by death. Here it is used (on Galadriel, and I would argue Elrond and Celebrimbor, to a degree) as a mere literary tool to subvert expectations (to make her/their personalities more... interesting?). As you alluded, this removes the superlative wisdom and grace for which her character was known. Of all the elves who witnessed the kinslaying of the Teleri, she was I believe the ONLY one specifically named who, by refusing to help the Noldor, had any possible recourse with the Valar to possibly be counted as non-banished. She didn't cross the Helcaraxe for vengeance. She only sought to ply her wisdom and grace as a leader there. And remember two things, although the elves didn't seek death (in general), the LAST thing that an honorable elf would resent is the gift of death - especially a valiant death - given to another elf (she NEW as fact that she'd see Finrod again in the Halls of Mandos), AND Finrod was NOT dead, as he amongst all named elves, save Glorfindel, was resurrected.
It drove me crazy how Elrond and Galadriel spoke as though they were old besties, even maybe kinda having a weird love interest with each other. When in fact she would be his mother in law.
And yes Celebrian was over a 1000 years old by the time the rings were forged yet in this version her parents (Galadriel and Celeborn) don't even seem to have met yet, and her mother is flirting with her future husband (Elrond). What is going on. And Elrond is treated like crap even though he is the second most senior royal elf in middle earth and the heir of the high king.
It's just beyond apparent the writers looked at everything through a human lens. Neither of them should be acting like young adults or even have human emotions to begin when considering they would already experienced every aspect of life hundred times already they should act beyond their age. Only praise i can give to the first season was Elrond's unawareness towards Durin when it comes to time. Makes no sense to depict them as young or in Galadriel's case rebellious
Main problem is : with the first season they already set up the narrative world wrong. Wrong worldbuilding affects everything else in the next season, and i don't see how they could correct it.
“I really liked the fast-moving section, especially when listened to at half speed. This is the first video of yours I’ve come across, and it’s very nice!”
100% agree. I think even with its crippling writing flaws aside, we all would have thought better of the show without the looming comparison of a much much better work of fiction perpetually on our thoughts.
@@AlaniTheScriptMage Exactly. They will always lack by comparison to the actual books. People can accept that when the liberties taken show respect to the original, like the Jackson movies did. These writers don't seem to understand that.
As Maya Angelou said, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. The makers of the show showed us who they are: people with only the most superficial understanding and respect for Tolkien's works, and amateurish story tellers who cannot be bothered to understand or portray time and distances, physical plausibilities, nor viable human societies in Númenor and proto-Mordor. Read Mark Twain's evisceration of James Fenimore Cooper's writings, and it is remarkable how much of it applies to Rings of Power. That's who they are. Watching the second season will be more a matter of slightly masochistic curiosity than any expectation of competent entertainment.
I think the main and greatest reason for the Noldor to go to ME and wage war against Morgoth, that most people forget and I don't understand why, is the fact that Melkor killed Finwe their king to steal the Silmarils. That was what triggered the anger of the Noldor the most. Fingolfin and the rest would have not lift a finger to retrieve the 3 gems, only Feanor and his sons would have.
I saw the title "Tolkien Nerd Gives Rings of Power a Second Chance" and immediately thought "oh no, she'll be tearing her hair out in exasperation ten minutes into episode 1" and by jove was I correct. Don't do it to yourself love
Amazing analysis, thanks! Even though I haven’t read everything that you have read, I can totally see and understand what you’re talking about! I was so excited for this series, and I actually enjoyed the prologue of the first episode (minus the fighting over the paper ship), but from there it just took me to a point where I couldn’t finish watching the season.
Don't give Rings of Power a 2nd chance. It is a failure of artistry. It is children making chalk drawings on a sidewalk to emulate Monet. The screenplay writers can't even be called derivative of Tolkien, because to be derivative they would have to be trying to do the same thing. They obviously misunderstand or are contemptuous toward everything in Tolkien's work and just do and say whatever they want using similarly-named characters and locations. But the characters are theirs, not Tolkien's. Because the words those characters say were written by the screenplay writers and not by Tolkien. Peter Jackson, Fran, and Phillipa Boyens succeeded with their trilogies as adaptations because they let Tolkien's words appear on the screen, spoken by the actors. That may not be possible in the same way for much of the Rings of Power, but the screenplay writers have not even tried. Amazon gave them the license to tell a modern story using all the intellectual property of Tolkien's creation. But Tolkien's creation is not (in the year 2024) a modern story. The screenplay writers have not even tried to understand the context and meaning behind Tolkien's work, so they are incapable of emulating or reproducing it, or its success. The Rings of Power is a waste of our limited time on this Earth for any Tolkien fan. Leave the Rings of Power for the unthinking, vapid fools it was made to target and move on with the better things in your life. Edit: Your analysis, criticisms, and insights are all spot-on. Well done! Also, from the final segment of the video: "[Tolkien's elves are not just people with pointy ears;] they are just fundamentally different from us and ... I don't get that [impression from the elf characters in the Rings of Power]." No, the screenplay writers don't get that, which is their entire problem. Either they do understand and they choose to discard. Or they completely fail to even comprehend -- which would not surprise, as most modern screenplay writers seem like dolts in general. Even action movies in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s were far more interestingly written than anything since 2020. You mention absurdity multiple times, which is spot-on again. But the fullest extent of these writers' sins is better conveyed by another phrase: gross incompetence. My most generous guess about these people is that they were all of 24 years old when they wrote the screenplay and have never read any of the literary classics of western culture, so they fail to perceive how utterly droll and infantile their plots are.
My immediate thought on the harsh character of Galadriel was: Well, becomming wiser is going to become her character arc across all 5 or so seasons. So the first season needs ro establishes her as harsh. She has a few thousand years to mellow :-)
The Girl could have called for ine of the eagles to fly her back to fight Sauron in Middle earth? I guess that would beat swimming and could fit the Amazon lore
I've only read Silmarillion twice a long time ago, but in my mind that idiocy with "imma swim back the whole ocean" could've been somewhat better if she started to drown at one point and said something along the lines of "Ulmo, in your hands I place my fate", and Ulmo would be "oh for fucks sakes" and shoved that shipwreck her way.
You could look at this show through a magical lense crafted by Eru Ilúvatar himself that makes everything look glorious and it would still be dogshit. Wait for the line about the stranger, he's not a man, then he's an Elf, no he's bigger than an Elf, ok so he's a GRANDELF. The fake Hobbits apparently call a wooden staff a GAND, and literally call him an Elf looking for his Gand or a Gandelf.
Love this! I'm so glad you're giving the show another chance so we don't have to. Much respect for letting your soul be crushed for our entertainment. I will watch all of these
I figured the stone-chucking, boat-wrecking, instigating little trouble-maker was Feanor. My own store of Tolkien lore shows that Feanor and Galadriel never really got along. -No idea how close they were in age though.- (btw: not making excuses for ROP)
They were quite close when Galadriel was young (Feanor is her uncle). Galadriel had far more ambition than most, which is what drew her to him early on. But as she grew up, Feanor's ambition and paranoia grew steadily worse and they began to grow apart as she began to put more faith in her wisdom than her ambition. After the Kinslaying (where Feanor straight up murdered her mothers' people to get the boats), there is nowhere written a single sentence where Feanor or Galadriel are present in each others' company.
Everyone is talking about this. I’ve been avoiding the second season, but now I feel obligated to watch. Nevertheless, I’ll wait until all the episodes are out.
10:35 I had the same gobsmacked reaction when I heard that this was a plot point in this show. Reminded me of The Ocean Walker from Arrested Development, where characters just walk on water at the end for no reason to walk across the ocean. But that was parody, meant to poke fun at Hollywood's awful writing, versus a real billion dollar production. All that money, and they couldn't hire better writers or at least better people to look over the writing for basic, obvious issues.
I'm glad see you enjoyed it. I couldn't get through the first episode. It's fan fiction level of writing from people who aren't fans of the source novels and appendices, assuming that someone on the staff read them.
I would watch it through the lens of whether it answers the question of why a boat floats when a rock sinks. ;) But seriously, I got as far as her sailing 90% of the way to Valinor (having been commanded to for some reason) and jumping overboard to swim all the way back, and just happening to encounter the one wrecked ship on which Totes-Not-Sauron happens to be there. Incidentally, Finrod is my favourite elf too!
I actually blame the Tolkien estate for a number of the changes because they wouldn't allow anything from the Silmarillion to be directly shown. If they had wanted things to be shown as described in the Silmarillion then they would have been willing to discuss the rights but from all reports I have read that was never on the table.
Bezos should have just offered the Tolkien estate a Billion (or more) cash and lots of Amazon stock to tempt them to part with the whole shebang....from The Silmarillion, to Unfinished Tales to The Children of Hurin...and literally done the whole thing "by the book". They would have been able to tell the story as lore/canon and Bezos would have been hailed as a HERO!
If we only know one character trait for a character which is that she has a fear of fire, and in the first season of the show she's playing with fire, we might guess that something happens between the first and the last season that gives her that trait. If we only know that Galadriel is too wise to take a reckless oath, and she's seen in the first season taking a reckless oath, perhaps it's due to character growth from making mistakes that she becomes too wise to make those same mistakes again. If elves don't have character growth, that means that they were created wise, which might be acceptable mythology, but makes for dull story telling.
I also have a difficult time enjoying this show, and setting aside my knowledge of the 1st and 2nd Ages. Turning Galadriel into a kind of impetuous teenager, instead of *already* the most insightful and wise figure amongst the Noldor -- is only one of the serious flaws. The whole time compression of the first season leads to so many characters and events happening concurrently (when they ought not to) that it's hard to know where to begin. But for me, this is hard to get over: Celebrimbor died in S.A. 1697, after making the Rings of Power (some with, and some without the participation of Annatar/Sauron). Yet almost all the Numenoreans who are major characters in the show (Elendil, Isildur, Pharazon, Miriel, etc.) are born in the fourth millennium of the Second Age, long after the death Celebrimbor. Most of them are born about 1,500 years after the rings of power are made. The making of the 20 rings of power (including the One Ring) -- occurs about 15 centuries before any of the Numenoreans used as main characters in the TV show are even born. In my opinion, all of that rich history involving mostly Elven characters in Eregion (especially Celebrimbor) relating to the Dwarves of Moria as well as to Annatar/Sauron ought to have taken up the first season or two of a Rings of Power series, and only then, maybe in the 3rd season, would it have made sense (imho) to jump 1500 years into the future to shift focus to the Numenoreans in the era of Elendil and Isildur. To me, this time compression is more about lazy writing than it is about anything else ... because the source material (even relying heavily on the appendices in LOTR, and not being allowed to use the Silmarillion per se) is so rich. There's a lot of room to invent new characters and new stories that Tolkien never imagined -- but you can do so without destroying his actual timeline and turning Galadriel into her opposite.
I think as a fellow Tolkien Nerd i dare say: Never have the absolute mental gymnastics, I have to make not to immediately get pulled off after another complete contradiction to the lore, in order to just be able to watch these things, have been illustrated so perfectly.
I understand the feeling. As a Tolkien fan I wanted so bad this show to be good that knowing it would suck, I saw the entire first season. But I cannot put myself through that again, so Season 2 is a pass for me. I don't hate myself enough.
Watched Season 2 ep 1 --what mess...In less than a minute they diminish Sauron and create a lame new backstory AND they also contradicted what they presented in Season 1! That's quite an accomplishment. In Season 1 they presented a scene showing tall and armored "dark aspect" Sauron in full LOTR movie costume presiding over a huge assembly of Orcs. In Season 2, Sauron is now an effete little white dude with long blonde hair and an Eton accent, who gives a speech to some angry Orcs. What happened to tall powerful Sauron in his full spiky armor? So they broke their own continuity, not to mention that Sauron didn't have to convince the Orcs to follow him -- he's a FALLEN ANGEL not a human or other mortal. Sauron was one of the first beings, older than even the elves. He was Morgoth's chief lieutenant, he is powerful and the Orcs followed his commands without question. They could no more kill him than an ant could stop a forest fire. He certainly did not have to die to be reborn as a booger monster and then take another form -- he could change form, include monstrous forms, until his power was diminished by the destruction of his Annutar form when Numenor fell This is even a really stupid and unnecessary destruction of JRRT's lore for no gain whatsoever.
New to your channel! As far as the Rings show, I feel your pain and think you did a great job with this vid, in fact let me go hit that Subscribe thingy (without an oath to do so!). Looking forward to more content!!
Lord of The Rings was the world I would go into when I imagined being Knight. Middle Earth was my second home as a kid. This show made me angry. I'm not even an expert in the Lore. I have read the books at least 20-30 times in my life so I am very well versed in the 4 main books. And this show wasn't anything like I pictured in my head as a kid. Peter Jackson changed things yes but captured the feel and size of everything perfectly.
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You do not EVER fast forward yourself talking about what you love. WTF girl. That's the best part of this kind of videos. Let it run free. You are among your kind ❤😊 Speak all you want about Tolkien work and let us enjoy at normal speed 😅
And Random Film Talk, whose reviews are each longer and more detailed than the episodes themselves. Liene's Library. And from a man who reads the books again every year, Just Some Guy.
I always interpreted Finrod and Sauron's rap battle as Bilbo attempting to convert something incomprehensible into terms the readers of the Red Book might understand. Since Elves are typically bad at explaining what mortals refer to as "magic", a singing contest is as close as he could get without being able to use the idioms in Quenya that allude to primordial vibrations of willpower in the psychic dimension where the Firstborn and the Maia can intersect
I'm not sure I agree. This is a setting that was literally sung into existence. It seems perfectly reasonable that "magic" can have a singing component. Also, I may be misremembering, but I do not remember the Silmarillion suggesting that Bilbo made up that song that told of their battle. At least the one included in the Silmarillion.
04:55 Galadriel was described as uncommonly tall and athletic. Possibly the most potent elf after crazy Feanor. No joke, she might have choked a Balrog. (Certainly would have broken Saruman in half if she got around to it.)
Galadriel versus Saruman: Like, a really tragic looking old man beat down. Onlookers who didn't know the backstory be like: "Oh my god! What is she doing to that poor old man! Somebody call the cops!
There is more than one elvish language. Arguably Elrond outranks Gil-galad and is even related to the Maiar. I figure Galadriel just has some kind of nature magic that allows her to do things like swim across a sea or survive a volcanic blast. Neither Gil-galad or Celebrimbor seem to have been cast or directed very well.
Honestly after having tried the first episodes of season 2 abd again just being able to bear it. The power dynamics just seem so weird to me. So you have Galadriel daughter of finarfin, already one of the oldest and wisest elves left at the beginning if the second age. Then you have Gil-galad which depending on the source material is either he nephew through Orodreth or her cousin's sin through fingon. Either way Gil-galad should respect her council. Gil-galad himself being of royal descent and having been fistered my mulriple of the wisest elves, should be a few centuries into the second age a young but well aquainted king. And then there is galadriel's son in law who is at the beginning of the second Age extremely young in comparison. Yet somehow he looks to be on seeing eye to eye to her and as the much more cautious character. And also flirts with galadriel his future mother in law who is thousands of years older than himself. And instead of Gil-galad growing into an experienced and wise King, while fostering Elrond. Elrond is his chief political advisor. Generally speakibg the whole condensing of the apparently non existing timeline, just makes no sense in the show, because the multigenerational developments are not even explained.
Stumbled on this video by accident and I am here for it! Subbed, even if you are all of the ism's and ist's known for not praising the shows greatness.
I guess I'm in the minority of Tolkien readers where I've been watching Rings of Power and just not comparing it to the books as I watch. I realize this is an interpretation/adaptation whatever you wanna term it, and I have that locked in my head while watching and just go with it and enjoy it as a bit of tv entertainment. I'm intrigued to see how certain things are visualized, like Numenor and even The Undying Lands, to witness the notion of a more militant minded Galadriel in her younger age, and to realize that time compression of events is a massive thing. Also its been interesting to see how the writers have toyed with the idea of Sauron as Annatar and how his relationship with Celebrimbor would have been. I know its all violating "lore"... I'm not threatened by that, because the books are still on my shelf. The amount of people hating on this show, decrying the lack of commitment to lore. They're making a tv show, they're writing for that show, not the lore. I'm astonished that people just can't try to sit back and chill out and watch a show, particularly when we used to only have a couple fantasy related things put on the small screen not too long ago.
My approach with this rewatch was to achieve that mindset and enjoy the show. Unfortunately for me, once I did so, I found the writing, unrelated to Tolkien, deeply frustrating. I'm still doing my best to keep an open mind. I'm happy you've been enjoying it though! In no way am I trying to yuck other people's yum:)
People criticizing ROP are not 'threatened' by how it's violating Lore, they're just disgusted. Amazon could have spent $1B on 10 *original* fantasy shows by new writers, and instead chose to exploit the most beloved fantasy IP of all time for its guaranteed audience of millions and fed us pure dreck that sounds like it was written by ChatGPT. Sure, sometimes it's great to turn your brain off and just enjoy shiny visuals, but that incentivizes more SFF slop on the small screen while new IPs and writers are left in obscurity. Continue to enjoy if you so wish...
I tried to do that lens option, i tried to be kind, after epside 4 of season 2 i just lost my patience with it, i think it is an absolute stain on some of the greatest work ever to grace paper.
Galadriel definitely isn't Xena. Xena would have figured out Sauron's plan in the first few episodes. Then she would have spent the rest of the season fighting him. By the end of the season he would have run away to the Southlands.
Love the book references! Don't feel like you need to like this show. It's not made in the spirit of what the professor would want. Amazon (big company(industry)) chopped down trees in Tolkien's home country for filming this show! He had the exact opposite messaging in what he wrote!
I’m a huge Tolkien nerd. My partner wanted to watch this and it’s just so inaccurate and so many plot points are just, Tolkien fan or not, implausible or dumb. That’s said, it is well produced and has some great actors on the cast (Sauron, Elendil, “Gandalf”, all the main dwarves, Pharazon, Elrond and Cirdan) who put in committed performances. It’s certainly pretty and it has a great soundtrack. Ultimately I explain it like this: it’s like the Chris Pine Star Trek movies: it’s completely lacking what makes Trek what it is, but it is rather fun. It’s more ‘inspired by’ Tolkien than an adaption of Tolkien. Sad. There’s a lot to like here. It could have been amazing. Instead it’s just kinda entertaining and forgettable.
You'd have more fun playing Lord of the Rings Online. Even the 'fan-fiction' they are forced to create due to the same restrictions is 100 times better. They even added Oranoril to the lore in a quest which helped explain some of Middle Earth's history as she was the one whom recovered Celebrimbor's corpse from the enemy. That entire story could make a season's worth of episodes. But then again - cost would be more than cosplay with bad script.
I like it, albeit some very clunky dialog. From what I have scene so far of the new season it might be better written, and at least a bit closer to the lore than the first. But I did enjoy it, and it was well acted too.
I feel like I'm the only person in the world who enjoyed it. It looked nice, I like the actors well enough, it was fairly easy to follow, it was good mindless entertainment even if it was badly written. But I guess I'm not a massive LOTR fan to be frustrated at them butchering Tolkeins work
I was so annoyed by the fact they removed galadriels wisdom she was one of the few characters to doubt Annatar, but in the show, she falls for his lies. And can studios get the rights to the silmarilion i want to see the war of wrath and ungoliant.
Celebrimbor’s character might have more impact if he actually came off more as a brilliant and passionate artist instead of “disgruntled middle management”. He not the least bit “Feanorian” here, and so far in season 2 comes off closer to Milton the stapler guy.
This video somehow feels like a 2007 RUclips video. No filters, no clickbait, no dragged intro, straight to the point. Awesome.
Thank you! That's one of the highest compliments one could hope to receive.
Galadriel jumps in the ocean to swim back to Middle Earth....
Everyone in Middle Earth: Somehow, Galadriel returned.
🤣🤣🤣
its amazons way of telling younger people if they dont get thqair way they should suicide. Completely idiotic scene, if they wanted to show a strong women who are a commander of the 5 northern armies then they should have made her turn the boat around by pulling rank and charisma.
But naaaah, jump overboard some 2000-3000 miles from the where she was sent from. Thats how to portray a strong woman albeit a mentally challaned one.
It made me laugh thou.
This was the moment when I gave up on the show
it's fckin ghey, just say it xD (amazons)
- "She swims now?!"
- "She swims now!"
Seeing Galadriel portrayed as an unrepentant insufferable brat just made me sad.
Honestly I think the main reason for the elves design in the show is they have absolutely no clue what qualities distinguish elves from humans other than "they have pointy ears" so they make sure the ears are visible
That's an interesting thought! That very well may explain the bizarre choices the hair and make-up department went with.
I love how the actors in the movies talk about how during filming they all just naturally „sat with their own“ the actors were sought out to have personalities that fit the race portrayed.
Love the visuals of Jackson’s films even if I’m still not 100% convinced on some changes to characters
Also they are "epic" and "awe-inspiring" and "wise and "elegant." While also showing they are "flawed." But execution is everything, and their execution was...just a bit short of the mark. And don't even get me started on the mess that was their attempt to distinguish the southern sylvan Elves from the Noldor. But weirdly, I still find Grannybrimbor a slightly better casting choice than Marshmallow Manager Gil-Galad.
And pointy ears are *never mentioned in Tolkien* as an Elf characteristic, ever.
@@JamesRaetz lol. Vulcan Elves.
You need a whole video on how much they've done Galadriel (and female elves in general) wrong. Galadriel is one of only 2 named female elves who returned to Middle Earth with the Noldor. The rest of the named female elves (including Feanor's own wife) were always wiser, more rational, and better able to control their emotional impulses, so they stayed among the Valar rather than go to Middle Earth on a dangerous and reckless quest bounds by blood oath.
Galadriel was my favorite character because (despite not being as fleshed out as some of the other more famous characters until Lord of the Rings), she only once ever took up arms and engaged in violence. Her power was ALWAYS knowing how to avoid bloodshed and violence. Her wisdom was instrumental in keeping Lothlorien together (so much so that when their king died they named her the Lady of the Wood). Lothlorien was a haven for all elves fleeing from the chaos of the War of the Silmarils, and the lives she saved are innumerable. She was constantly in a battle between her wisdom and her ambition (she was Feanor's niece, and did inherit some of the ambition that so many others of her family). That's why the part in the Lord of the Rings where Frodo offers her the ring is so powerful. Frodo offered her the one thing would would grant her the power to achieve all of her ambition, and she passed the test, setting aside her ambition because her wisdom allowed her to see the costs and give her the strength to do the right thing.
A couple fun bits about Galadriel that I love:
She is only 1 of 3 characters in all of Tolkien's works capable of making Lembas. And the only one who was not a Valar or Maiar.
Feanor was enamored by Galadriel's beauty in her youth (even before crafting the Silmarils). He once asked for a strand of her hair which he wanted to craft into crystal. He asked 3 times. She refused 3 times. When Gimli asked her for a strand of her hair, she laughed and gave him 3.
There was never any question who would get Nenya (the elven ring crafted by Celibrimbor of which she was custodian). It was the ring of restoration and protection from evil.
Sorry to ramble. Tolkien is one of the subjects I can spend hours and hours rambling about, and Galadriel is in my top 3 characters (along with Luthien and Finrod). Once it starts, it's hard to stop.
Have watched a couple vids. Will be watching more. Liked and subscribed.
*edit for typos
What are you talking about, Galadriel is basically Xena as described by Tolkien himself, here are some examples:
- She is explicitly pointed out to be *the strongest Amazonian woman,* a match for the princes of the High Elves in strength and valor.
- "Her mother-name was Nerwen *'man-maiden',* and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, *a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth."*
- "Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the contending princes"
- "She was called Nerwen ‘man-maiden’ because of her strength and stature, and her courage." (NoME)
And she was known to be a bit proud and foolhardy in her youth. Yes, I completely agree that the show did a bad job at portraying this, but no Tolkien fan should have trouble grasping what lore they were drawing inspiration from there.
@@TheSaltyAdmiral That is all looking for confirmation bias. He uses "amazonian" to describe her physically (and was never called the strongest). "Amazonian" is an adjective to describe her PHYSICALLY, not to describe her temperment or character. Yes he does portray her as taller, nimbler, and faster (and having a deeper more melodic voice) than most female elves, specifically linking it to her prowess in athletic games. But athletic contests have nothing to do with violence. There was no real violence at that time (for the children of Iluvatar, anyway); Morgoth had not even gotten the elves to craft swords yet. She was never even included in any of the hunts of the era (or any age).
You keep assuming that because she was physically stronger, that means she is violent/a warrior, despite that not being the case. Size and prowess at war are are not linked together much in Tolkien's works. Sometimes the best warriors were the biggest and toughest, sometimes the most nimble, sometimes the most practiced and disciplined, sometimes the best at avoiding attention, etc., etc.
In the first age, when her brothers were building kingdoms and fortresses and fighting the forces of Morgoth, she was mostly with Melian, learning from her and gaining ever more wisdom and strength (and by strength I mean strength of character, as was the case when Tolkien was when he spoke of her equaling the strength of the princes).
The lore they were "drawing from" (if they cared about lore at all, of which I saw zero evidence during the first season) was from before the first age even began. Galadriel is well over 4000 years old before the second age even began, hardly an impetuous youth. Yes, she still had issues with pride and ambition (which is why her role in LOTR was all the more impactful), but she was never a hot-headed, anger-fueled, impulsive, bash everyone who is bad kind of person at all (not even when she was an impetuous youth).
I don't understand why people are so invested in her being a violent warrior. It's not like that quality is good or bad in itself, or reflects any kind of strength other than brute force. I know people love mindless action movies, but if you want Tolkien, than mindless action is not what you are looking for (Tolkien often pairs the most prolific warriors as reckless fools who make everything worse, which seems to me he is trying to point out that trying to solve all your problems by bashing them on the head is maybe not the best way).
@@TheSaltyAdmiral I just realized my tone probably comes of as me being a real jerk, which is not my intent (and I apologize if I did offend).
I just think it shows how much stronger Galadriel is when you know she is as physically powerful as the best male warriors, but she has the wisdom and self-control they all lack. While some of the biggest heroes of the first age were mighty warriors, almost every one of them comes to a brutal violent end because they do NOT have the wisdom, restraint, and foresight to stop themselves from charging into death because they allow their anger and rage to make the decisions.
Tolkien, contrary to much popular belief, generally considered women to be the stronger sex. Tolkien considered strength to be so much more than just the physical; Morgoth was repeatedly described as the strongest and most powerful being other than Eru, and no one would consider him to have strength of character at all (and there is very little written to show him having any wisdom or self-control. The reason there are so few female elven characters is because most of the histories of Middle Earth are focused on how even the most heroic of the male characters constantly lacked wisdom, and most of the history is fallout from their rash decisions. Whereas the female elves (including Feanor's own wife) refused to get sucked into the hotheaded anger and rage that took so many Noldor away from Valinor. The history of Middle Earth is largely about how the men kept making things worse by thinking the best course of action was in violent confrontation and how (more often than not) it was the women who were left cleaning up the mess (while the men were planning their next combative approach).
@@jasonmeade955 i love you so much.
Uh….you think only two female noldor returned? How do you think they multiplied? Polyamory?
Galadriel from the books Vs a Troll = Galadriel looks at troll, troll apologizes profusely for the inconvenience before fleeing in terror.
Galadriel decides to kill said Troll = Galadriel looks at the Troll, an expression of absolute mind-numbing terror briefly crosses its faces before it clutches its chest and expires.
@@Damalon01 precisely.
@@Damalon01 reading unfinished takes again reminds me she was power hungry in the first age and really wanted the ring.
@@chrissmith7669 If youre talking about the One Ring, it didnt exist until the Second Age. The First Age was all about Morgoth, Sauron didnt create the rings until after Morgoth was defeated. Unless Im very much mistaken.
I believe when Sauron was defeated and Isildur took the One Ring for himself was the beginning of the Third Age.
@@Damalon01 I meant second not first. Oops
Remember the wisdom of the salad bar: take what you like, and pretend that the rest never happened.
Same here.
The only issue is it's so hard to take anything because there's so little here to like if someone is a fan of Tolkien works
Galadriel's ocean voyage is even more ridiculous when it ends. She left Lindon when Celebrimbor was still alive, and was pulled out of the sea by Elendil the Tall. It's like she boarded a ship for America from Rome, under the reign of Caesar Augustus, jumped out near the shore of America and started swimming home, only to be picked up by a ship whose captain was Christopher Columbus.
Exactly!!
@@Gunleaver well we know the show has a compressed timeline, might as well get used to it.
@@ironinthesoul9680 Even with a „compressed timeline“ this doesn‘t make sense. No vessel without the explicit permission by the Valar can reach Valinors shores so what is a human vessel doing there? There shouldn‘t be a ship, much less a ship manned by human outcasts. Ether we accept that Galadriel swam back from valinor to seas controlled by numenorians which would be insane or those guys where already sailing to their doom and she randomly met the only ship full of fanatical Valinor seeking Numenorians. That she randomly met Sauron on this trip is just the icing on this cake of contrived BS.
Your Noldor ‘rant’ is absolutely spot on. Subbed!
Thank you!
I’ve always said the scene of Galadriel jumping ship - unlike some of the other whoppers in the writing - would have been fine as a leap of faith, and totally in line with other Tolkien stories - such as Ulmo’s mission given to Tuor to go to Gondolin in the Silmarillion - if only it had a clear inciting incident. Like if one of those Valinorian sea parrot things flying around just then looking pretty had landed on her shoulder as a messenger from one of the Valar and whispered in her ear that she had a mission to accomplish back in middle earth. Or maybe a fish messenger had stuck its head out just at that moment and told her to jump ship and leave her fate in Ulmo’s hands. That would have been what, 30 seconds at most, and suddenly everything is epic, not stupid. Instead it just seemed like churlishness on her part, doubling down on her TV show personality. At any rate the idea that she would be willing to make this leap of faith to save middle earth would have gone down far easier if her character had been shown to have an ounce of genuine selfless compassion for others prior to this choice.
But for me the heart of the problem with the writing is perfectly encapsulated by churlish Galadriel and conflicted Sauron. These choices are, as Tolkien himself warned in his lecture “On Fairy Stories”, antithetical to the genre. He described them as a kind of knowing “winking” at the audience that immediately kicks you out of the spell of “the realm of faerie”. In this case it is the suggestion that G an S are just regular people that have flaws that need to be sussed out in modern style psychological trauma terms. That might have been an amusing and interesting deconstruction of Tolkien - in far more intelligent hands - but in every case this type of thing ruins the show AS a fairy story, or anything that FEELS like Tolkien. I think this type of thing is a land mine waiting for anyone trying to adapt Tolkien, especially if the writers don’t understand how Tolkien works as a thing distinct from their undergraduate script classes. There are good and bad story choices and pros and cons that can be debated, but this is the original sin you just can’t get around. I think most people who come to the show loving Tolkien will instantly feel the difference in tone and feel betrayed, even if they have trouble putting their finger on the exact reasons right away.
Also, why is Valinor a metaphysical blinding light? In the second age it's still a physical actual land.
A blinding light pointing into the camera is cheaper to film?
Galadriel's primary trait in The Silmarillion is *not* that "she doesn't swear stupid oaths." It's true, she doesn't swear the reckless oath. This is really important. Instead, she is motivated by pride and ambition and the desire to rule a land "of her own will." Tolkien says she was swayed by Feanor's words, and was "the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the contending princes, [and] was eager to be gone." While her father Finarfin repented and returned to Valinor, Galadriel was a primary leader in the journey through Helcaraxe, and she admits to Melian that she came against the will of the Valar, specifically "to take vengeance upon Morgoth." Besides her ambition (which lends so much weight to her choice in The Fellowship of the Ring), another of her primary traits is that unlike all the other elves, she was opposed to Annatar while they were taken in. And none of this takes into account how Tolkien described Galadriel in his drafts that did not make Christopher's cut in The Silmarillion ("Amazon disposition," named "man-maiden" by her mother, "a match for...the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth," the name Galadriel coming from said athletic competitions, etc.).
My issue with her motivation in the TV show really is that she's obsessed with her opposition to Sauron; there is no focus on her ambition and efforts to create realms and kingdoms where she is the central power and influence.
“One does not simply walk into Mordor…”
How about the utter stupidity of having Galadriel regret going to Valinor, because her brother is buried in Lindon for some reason? Setting aside that it is nowhere near where he died, and thus would have no reason to be buried there, and the lands where he DID die sunk beneath the sea, is the fact that when elves die, their spirits remain IN the world, and go to the Halls of Mandos, where they wait until they are returned to life in restored bodies. Finrod is one of two elves about whom we are reasonably certain have been returned to life. By going to Valinor, Galadriel will have the best chance of meeting him, either in the flesh, or on visiting day in the Halls of Mandos. FFS the only reason her father was born was because his father's dead wife came back from the Halls for a consult on his potential remarriage to Galadriel's grandmother. Like, the whole family should be VERY aware of the possibility of meeting read relatives in Valinor!
As far as permission goes, the Valar forbade the Noldor from returning for the rest of the first age, but after Earandil won their aid for Middle Earth and they fought the War of Wrath, the ban was rescinded and the Noldor and the Moriquendi were invited to come to Valinor. So either way, permission is not Gil-Galad's to grant. Either the Noldor, or at least their leaders, of whom Galadriel is the last remaining, are still under the Ban, which Gil-Galad cannot gainsay (remember, Eonwe refused to judge Sauron, who was of the same order as he, therefore, in spiritual matters, pertaining to one's standing with the Valar, one Elf cannot judge or pardon another Elf, just as one Maia could not sentence or pardon another Maia), or else the Ban has been lifted and Gil-Galad's grant of permission is both superfluous and presumptuous.
On Galadriel's traits: there's more material about Galadriel and her traits to be found in Unfinished Tales, "Of the History of Galadriel and Celeborn".
Ooh. I'll have to read that!
I’d forgotten that. Off to dig out my tales
@@AlaniTheScriptMage There are more traits to her in Silmarillion if im not misstaken but they are open for interpretation. By the way she is described she is also ambitious, vain and also to some extent arrogant. Wise is not really the word id use but highly intelligent. Also there are some description of her being somewhat telepathic and sometimes she is not. Tolkien seems a bit back and forth on this.
Unfinished Tales has so much phenomenal source material. One of the most underrated of the releases, though it is best if you know the patches it is filling in (so not for beginners).
there is not enough cursing in the tongues of men, elves and dwarves to express my anger of this show
I have given myself years to cool my temper, and yet this rewatching keeps reigniting a deep old wrath in me.
Good luck with your blood pressure. I don't think I could rewatch this series, it is triggering enough to watch these reviews. :P
There are very few things that the show gets right, and it is actively undercutting itself every chance it gets. For example, I did like the difference of an elf's lifespan compared to a dwarf, and Elrond's apology, showing his wisdom, but this is undercut by him lying to his friend... and besides, it should have been Celebrimbor and Narvi. The murder-hobbits' festival sounds nice "Nobody walks alone, Nobody left behind." And then they have a list of people they left behind to die, and are actively trying to do it to some of their own due to a twisted ankle. So much for looking after each other. These are pretty much the polar opposite to how Tolkien described the hobbits during the Long Winter, their compassion and kindness towards one another. As Gandalf puts it: "And then there was the Shire-folk. I began to have a warm place in my heart for them in the Long Winter, which none of you can remember. They were very hard put to it then: one of the worst pinches they have been in, dying of cold, and starving in the dreadful dearth that followed. But that was the time to see their courage, and their pity one for another. It was by their pity as much as their tough uncomplaining courage that they survived."
And of course they butchered the whole Second Age Timeline, shuffled things out of order (the forging of the rings), etc. It is a terrible show.
100% agree. The things they almost get right is why this is so frustrating. You can almost see a story that works, hidden among everything else, and it is maddening watching the writers screw themselves over at almost every opportunity.
Love to see people who know the Silmarillion well and take Tolkien seriously - quite unlike the makers of Rings of Power.
u know obviously that this has bugger all to do with the Silmarillion though ? right ? that's mostly first age . . . . so , er, yeah
Minor correction, Alani: Elrond didn't see his family murdered. When the Fëanorians attacked the havens, Eärendil (Elrond's father) was away at sea. Elwing (Elrond's mother) jumped into the sea wearing the Nauglamír with the Silmaril to save it from the Fëanorians, but she survived because Ulmo transformed her into a seabird. Elrond and his brother Elros may have seen this happen and may even have seen their mother flying away as a bird; Tolkien does not tell us. (In one account Elrond and Elros were abandoned in a cave and subsequently rescued, but this may have happened after Elwing's escape.)
After Elwing found Eärendil aboard his ship and reverted to her true form, Eärendil and Elwing made the tough decision (which readers may find incomprehensible, but of which Tolkien seemingly approved, or at any rate never criticized) to sail West to Valinor rather than attempting to rescue their sons, believing that the situation in Middle-earth was now so dire that an intervention without the aid of the Valar was hopeless. Elrond and Elros presumably learned that their parents were still alive when the armies of the Valar came to Middle-earth for the War of Wrath; Elrond certainly knew in later ages that his father was alive and had become the Evening Star.
Thank you for the clarification! I knew as I was saying it that I wasn't wording it quite right.
I knew Elwing had thrown herself into the sea. That's why I drew her throwing herself off the screen. I kind of meant "household" when I said family but my original point is almost strengthened by the truth: Elrond's life was not rosy and cheerful.
Well,..he and his twin brother would have witnessed a horrifying third Kinslaying, the "cruelest slaying of Elf by Elf" so a massacre of entire people. Then the workers of said massacre had sheltered them..then comes the disastrous War of Wrath..and Elrond in book says he remembers those banners and the host of Valinor coming in!
This is one of the main reasons I use youtube.
Nothing better than finding channels like this.
Channels not corrupted by subscriber count.
100 percent! Love this content!
Very brave of you to try again. Can't wait till we can all enjoy the teleports, continuity mistakes, space bending ships and cotton shirts painted as chainmail together as a group. Maybe on a rewatch we will finally understand why did the elves forge a dam lever as a blood sucking clearly cursed sword xD
Re the bully *elf-children, you are correct:
"Their families, or houses, were held together by love and a deep feeling for kinship in mind and body; and the children needed little governing or teaching."
Morgoth's Ring, Laws and Customs Among the Eldar
Precisely. Even though I could not recall the precise quote, I nevertheless felt a profound wrongness when watching that. Thank you for remembering the passage for me:)
@@AlaniTheScriptMage You are welcome.
Honestly, the ship thing wasn't even the Noldor, it was Feanor himself ordering it, against the wishes of his eldest son, Maedhros, and to prevent any of their followers from returning to Aman. The vast majority of the Noldor were the VICTIMS of his ship burning, because it forced them to endure the march across the Helcaraxe. On top of the stuff about wanton destruction. Which was dead on balls accurate. "Love not too well the work of thy hands" was the warning Ulmo gave the two Noldorin leaders he trusted the most, and 50% of them failed to heed it.
Rather than a fast forward, the Noldor ideology 'rant' deserves its own video
it's so painful it even makes getting it through the limited clips shown in your video difficult
I don’t understand why they’re making a series set in the Second Age when they only have the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and the show relies solely on the appendices from The Return of the King. Without the rights to The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, it makes no sense and only causes confusion, especially for people who haven’t read the books and might think Rings of Power is the true lore and took place before Peter Jackson’s trilogies. If they have the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, why not make a series that faithfully adapts the books 1:1? I just can’t understand that. They’re just inventing their own story based on Tolkien’s work.
It is quite silly, isn't it?
I get what you're saying. But its like you said for people who never read the books, if it interests them enough. And they decide to pick up the books. How is that a bad thing? Also, the books will always be there. They aren't going anywhere. Its not like Jeff Bezos is going to come knocking on your door and give you a new edition of Lord of the Rings with Rings of Power lore, lol. I learned a long time ago to not let stuff like this get to me. I got the Shadow of Mordor games and was a little confused on the changes they made. When I stopped myself, and just said enjoy it for what it is. Thats what I'm doing with Rings of Power.
@@Spideyfan1985 The problem is RoP isn't even good if you don't think about the books. The characters suck, the story doesn't make any sense, the dialogue is horrible and even the acting is mediocre in some parts. The only thing it has going for it are the visuals and only if you don't mind the extensive CGI
They probably bought the rights to what they could get as a way to get a built in audience. The references to Peter Jackson's adaptation are many. For instance, they can't name Gandalf, so they have a "not" Gandalf character etc. Besides the issue of inserting DEI all through ROP, thus making it look like the Western World, yet not Middle Earth is a big mistake. Their biggest mistake, though, was thinking they could just write an expansion on Tolkien's writings and ideas. This show has some of the worst writing I've ever witnessed from any show in any era.
They don’t even have the rights to Lord of the rings. They have the rights to the appendices in the back of the book.
Finrod!
If he didn't have to face Sauron in person, he might have made it.
Like Fingolfin, he never had a chance, but both made an epic contest of it.
From the point of view of who's never read nothing, I want to know what they understand from that prologue and most important why in episode 5 there's a elf fighting with a balrog that wants a Silmaril. They didn't even mention why the Silmarils are important for Melkor, who's Melkor and why he stolen the light from two Trees in Valinor.
You don't have to be a Tolkien expert to see what a disaster RoP is. Even taken generically as a TV show, the writing - especially the dialogue - is atrocious. The amateurishness ranges from silly attempts at profundity to statements that make no sense whatsoever. It sounds like it was written by high schoolers.
You NAILED it! D&D elves - only, in D&D an alignment change (forgive me, I haven't played since the 80s) was punished by death. Here it is used (on Galadriel, and I would argue Elrond and Celebrimbor, to a degree) as a mere literary tool to subvert expectations (to make her/their personalities more... interesting?). As you alluded, this removes the superlative wisdom and grace for which her character was known. Of all the elves who witnessed the kinslaying of the Teleri, she was I believe the ONLY one specifically named who, by refusing to help the Noldor, had any possible recourse with the Valar to possibly be counted as non-banished. She didn't cross the Helcaraxe for vengeance. She only sought to ply her wisdom and grace as a leader there.
And remember two things, although the elves didn't seek death (in general), the LAST thing that an honorable elf would resent is the gift of death - especially a valiant death - given to another elf (she NEW as fact that she'd see Finrod again in the Halls of Mandos), AND Finrod was NOT dead, as he amongst all named elves, save Glorfindel, was resurrected.
It drove me crazy how Elrond and Galadriel spoke as though they were old besties, even maybe kinda having a weird love interest with each other. When in fact she would be his mother in law.
And yes Celebrian was over a 1000 years old by the time the rings were forged yet in this version her parents (Galadriel and Celeborn) don't even seem to have met yet, and her mother is flirting with her future husband (Elrond). What is going on. And Elrond is treated like crap even though he is the second most senior royal elf in middle earth and the heir of the high king.
@@Jonny-yh2nl they have met, she talks about him in episode 7 or so but she thinks he is dead. Which also doesn't make sense
It's just beyond apparent the writers looked at everything through a human lens. Neither of them should be acting like young adults or even have human emotions to begin when considering they would already experienced every aspect of life hundred times already they should act beyond their age. Only praise i can give to the first season was Elrond's unawareness towards Durin when it comes to time. Makes no sense to depict them as young or in Galadriel's case rebellious
@@Mamarozan yeah Galadriel is like 2500 years old at this point
@@Jonny-yh2nl they are definitely not flirting, they are like siblings, Galadriel's mentor was Elrond's mother.
Main problem is : with the first season they already set up the narrative world wrong.
Wrong worldbuilding affects everything else in the next season, and i don't see how they could correct it.
“I’d like to be kinder” she said with difficulty.
“I really liked the fast-moving section, especially when listened to at half speed. This is the first video of yours I’ve come across, and it’s very nice!”
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed:)
If they wanted to create an original property with their own characters, they should have done that and left Tolkien out of it.
100% agree. I think even with its crippling writing flaws aside, we all would have thought better of the show without the looming comparison of a much much better work of fiction perpetually on our thoughts.
@@AlaniTheScriptMage Exactly. They will always lack by comparison to the actual books. People can accept that when the liberties taken show respect to the original, like the Jackson movies did. These writers don't seem to understand that.
First time here. Love the comments. Staying for the drawings.
As Maya Angelou said, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. The makers of the show showed us who they are: people with only the most superficial understanding and respect for Tolkien's works, and amateurish story tellers who cannot be bothered to understand or portray time and distances, physical plausibilities, nor viable human societies in Númenor and proto-Mordor. Read Mark Twain's evisceration of James Fenimore Cooper's writings, and it is remarkable how much of it applies to Rings of Power.
That's who they are. Watching the second season will be more a matter of slightly masochistic curiosity than any expectation of competent entertainment.
Don't forget the need for muh diversity
I think the main and greatest reason for the Noldor to go to ME and wage war against Morgoth, that most people forget and I don't understand why, is the fact that Melkor killed Finwe their king to steal the Silmarils. That was what triggered the anger of the Noldor the most. Fingolfin and the rest would have not lift a finger to retrieve the 3 gems, only Feanor and his sons would have.
Very true. People do love to heap all the blame on Feanor and his everything. Haha.
I saw the title "Tolkien Nerd Gives Rings of Power a Second Chance" and immediately thought "oh no, she'll be tearing her hair out in exasperation ten minutes into episode 1" and by jove was I correct. Don't do it to yourself love
"Finrod" speaks Elvish at the battle". Something-something- "firuvante" (you will die).
"KARENdriel wants to speak to the manager, my Lord"...
_______________
Random Ork
It’s not your fault if you can’t watch it, it’s not your fault, it’s not your fault…..
Amazing analysis, thanks! Even though I haven’t read everything that you have read, I can totally see and understand what you’re talking about! I was so excited for this series, and I actually enjoyed the prologue of the first episode (minus the fighting over the paper ship), but from there it just took me to a point where I couldn’t finish watching the season.
I see your struggle and I agree with you - let's calm, breath, let's not despair ;)
Gal-lad-riel is too aware of her script immunitt... bit like grogu the dollar colored gremlin
Don't give Rings of Power a 2nd chance. It is a failure of artistry. It is children making chalk drawings on a sidewalk to emulate Monet. The screenplay writers can't even be called derivative of Tolkien, because to be derivative they would have to be trying to do the same thing. They obviously misunderstand or are contemptuous toward everything in Tolkien's work and just do and say whatever they want using similarly-named characters and locations. But the characters are theirs, not Tolkien's. Because the words those characters say were written by the screenplay writers and not by Tolkien. Peter Jackson, Fran, and Phillipa Boyens succeeded with their trilogies as adaptations because they let Tolkien's words appear on the screen, spoken by the actors. That may not be possible in the same way for much of the Rings of Power, but the screenplay writers have not even tried. Amazon gave them the license to tell a modern story using all the intellectual property of Tolkien's creation. But Tolkien's creation is not (in the year 2024) a modern story. The screenplay writers have not even tried to understand the context and meaning behind Tolkien's work, so they are incapable of emulating or reproducing it, or its success. The Rings of Power is a waste of our limited time on this Earth for any Tolkien fan. Leave the Rings of Power for the unthinking, vapid fools it was made to target and move on with the better things in your life.
Edit: Your analysis, criticisms, and insights are all spot-on. Well done!
Also, from the final segment of the video: "[Tolkien's elves are not just people with pointy ears;] they are just fundamentally different from us and ... I don't get that [impression from the elf characters in the Rings of Power]."
No, the screenplay writers don't get that, which is their entire problem. Either they do understand and they choose to discard. Or they completely fail to even comprehend -- which would not surprise, as most modern screenplay writers seem like dolts in general. Even action movies in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s were far more interestingly written than anything since 2020. You mention absurdity multiple times, which is spot-on again. But the fullest extent of these writers' sins is better conveyed by another phrase: gross incompetence. My most generous guess about these people is that they were all of 24 years old when they wrote the screenplay and have never read any of the literary classics of western culture, so they fail to perceive how utterly droll and infantile their plots are.
Your input is excellent and you’re spot on, I look forward to watching these videos after I suffer through each episode again.
Thank you! I am glad to be a happy spot amidst your suffering:)
My immediate thought on the harsh character of Galadriel was: Well, becomming wiser is going to become her character arc across all 5 or so seasons. So the first season needs ro establishes her as harsh. She has a few thousand years to mellow :-)
The Girl could have called for ine of the eagles to fly her back to fight Sauron in Middle earth? I guess that would beat swimming and could fit the Amazon lore
I've only read Silmarillion twice a long time ago, but in my mind that idiocy with "imma swim back the whole ocean" could've been somewhat better if she started to drown at one point and said something along the lines of "Ulmo, in your hands I place my fate", and Ulmo would be "oh for fucks sakes" and shoved that shipwreck her way.
That probably would have made it better.
Saw your deep and passioned analysis and suscribed instantly, more power to the nerds of this world, keep going, i love it!
Thank you!
You could look at this show through a magical lense crafted by Eru Ilúvatar himself that makes everything look glorious and it would still be dogshit. Wait for the line about the stranger, he's not a man, then he's an Elf, no he's bigger than an Elf, ok so he's a GRANDELF. The fake Hobbits apparently call a wooden staff a GAND, and literally call him an Elf looking for his Gand or a Gandelf.
Love this! I'm so glad you're giving the show another chance so we don't have to. Much respect for letting your soul be crushed for our entertainment. I will watch all of these
I love all the little drawings to illustrate the point. So cute lol
i love how your mind wanna go somewhere but then your knoledge cant! and then you scream WHAAAAAT and its funny. Love this video
I figured the stone-chucking, boat-wrecking, instigating little trouble-maker was Feanor.
My own store of Tolkien lore shows that Feanor and Galadriel never really got along.
-No idea how close they were in age though.-
(btw: not making excuses for ROP)
They were quite close when Galadriel was young (Feanor is her uncle). Galadriel had far more ambition than most, which is what drew her to him early on. But as she grew up, Feanor's ambition and paranoia grew steadily worse and they began to grow apart as she began to put more faith in her wisdom than her ambition. After the Kinslaying (where Feanor straight up murdered her mothers' people to get the boats), there is nowhere written a single sentence where Feanor or Galadriel are present in each others' company.
Everyone is talking about this. I’ve been avoiding the second season, but now I feel obligated to watch. Nevertheless, I’ll wait until all the episodes are out.
10:35 I had the same gobsmacked reaction when I heard that this was a plot point in this show. Reminded me of The Ocean Walker from Arrested Development, where characters just walk on water at the end for no reason to walk across the ocean. But that was parody, meant to poke fun at Hollywood's awful writing, versus a real billion dollar production. All that money, and they couldn't hire better writers or at least better people to look over the writing for basic, obvious issues.
I'm glad see you enjoyed it. I couldn't get through the first episode. It's fan fiction level of writing from people who aren't fans of the source novels and appendices, assuming that someone on the staff read them.
I just hate really any depictions of child or adolescent bullying in shows or movies. It's almost always cringy and overdone
I would watch it through the lens of whether it answers the question of why a boat floats when a rock sinks. ;) But seriously, I got as far as her sailing 90% of the way to Valinor (having been commanded to for some reason) and jumping overboard to swim all the way back, and just happening to encounter the one wrecked ship on which Totes-Not-Sauron happens to be there. Incidentally, Finrod is my favourite elf too!
I actually blame the Tolkien estate for a number of the changes because they wouldn't allow anything from the Silmarillion to be directly shown.
If they had wanted things to be shown as described in the Silmarillion then they would have been willing to discuss the rights but from all reports I have read that was never on the table.
Bezos should have just offered the Tolkien estate a Billion (or more) cash and lots of Amazon stock to tempt them to part with the whole shebang....from The Silmarillion, to Unfinished Tales to The Children of Hurin...and literally done the whole thing "by the book". They would have been able to tell the story as lore/canon and Bezos would have been hailed as a HERO!
It is kind of you to try to judge this as “own property”, but it isn’t. This is Professor Tolkien’s work they are adapting, badly at that.
That was my biggest things as well....she just dives into the water?? She would die. She'd never make it back. EVER.
I had to re-watch some of Season 1 as I forgot why the hell Numenoreans ever came to Middle Earth.
You are obviously long time fan of The Profesor. It is the best content ever to watch your gears turn and grind you force this task upon yourself.
If we only know one character trait for a character which is that she has a fear of fire, and in the first season of the show she's playing with fire, we might guess that something happens between the first and the last season that gives her that trait. If we only know that Galadriel is too wise to take a reckless oath, and she's seen in the first season taking a reckless oath, perhaps it's due to character growth from making mistakes that she becomes too wise to make those same mistakes again. If elves don't have character growth, that means that they were created wise, which might be acceptable mythology, but makes for dull story telling.
I also have a difficult time enjoying this show, and setting aside my knowledge of the 1st and 2nd Ages. Turning Galadriel into a kind of impetuous teenager, instead of *already* the most insightful and wise figure amongst the Noldor -- is only one of the serious flaws. The whole time compression of the first season leads to so many characters and events happening concurrently (when they ought not to) that it's hard to know where to begin.
But for me, this is hard to get over: Celebrimbor died in S.A. 1697, after making the Rings of Power (some with, and some without the participation of Annatar/Sauron).
Yet almost all the Numenoreans who are major characters in the show (Elendil, Isildur, Pharazon, Miriel, etc.) are born in the fourth millennium of the Second Age, long after the death Celebrimbor. Most of them are born about 1,500 years after the rings of power are made. The making of the 20 rings of power (including the One Ring) -- occurs about 15 centuries before any of the Numenoreans used as main characters in the TV show are even born.
In my opinion, all of that rich history involving mostly Elven characters in Eregion (especially Celebrimbor) relating to the Dwarves of Moria as well as to Annatar/Sauron ought to have taken up the first season or two of a Rings of Power series, and only then, maybe in the 3rd season, would it have made sense (imho) to jump 1500 years into the future to shift focus to the Numenoreans in the era of Elendil and Isildur.
To me, this time compression is more about lazy writing than it is about anything else ... because the source material (even relying heavily on the appendices in LOTR, and not being allowed to use the Silmarillion per se) is so rich. There's a lot of room to invent new characters and new stories that Tolkien never imagined -- but you can do so without destroying his actual timeline and turning Galadriel into her opposite.
I think as a fellow Tolkien Nerd i dare say:
Never have the absolute mental gymnastics, I have to make not to immediately get pulled off after another complete contradiction to the lore, in order to just be able to watch these things, have been illustrated so perfectly.
I thought they said from the beginning that it was more original than pure canon..
like swimming back to England...exactly..
props to watching this show twice.. it may have irreparably destroyed many of your brain cells.
I understand the feeling. As a Tolkien fan I wanted so bad this show to be good that knowing it would suck, I saw the entire first season. But I cannot put myself through that again, so Season 2 is a pass for me. I don't hate myself enough.
Watched Season 2 ep 1 --what mess...In less than a minute they diminish Sauron and create a lame new backstory AND they also contradicted what they presented in Season 1! That's quite an accomplishment. In Season 1 they presented a scene showing tall and armored "dark aspect" Sauron in full LOTR movie costume presiding over a huge assembly of Orcs. In Season 2, Sauron is now an effete little white dude with long blonde hair and an Eton accent, who gives a speech to some angry Orcs. What happened to tall powerful Sauron in his full spiky armor? So they broke their own continuity, not to mention that Sauron didn't have to convince the Orcs to follow him -- he's a FALLEN ANGEL not a human or other mortal. Sauron was one of the first beings, older than even the elves. He was Morgoth's chief lieutenant, he is powerful and the Orcs followed his commands without question. They could no more kill him than an ant could stop a forest fire. He certainly did not have to die to be reborn as a booger monster and then take another form -- he could change form, include monstrous forms, until his power was diminished by the destruction of his Annutar form when Numenor fell This is even a really stupid and unnecessary destruction of JRRT's lore for no gain whatsoever.
A shit sandwich doesn't get better with the second bite
New to your channel! As far as the Rings show, I feel your pain and think you did a great job with this vid, in fact let me go hit that Subscribe thingy (without an oath to do so!). Looking forward to more content!!
Thank you!
They made Galadriel a complete psychopath.
Lord of The Rings was the world I would go into when I imagined being Knight. Middle Earth was my second home as a kid. This show made me angry. I'm not even an expert in the Lore. I have read the books at least 20-30 times in my life so I am very well versed in the 4 main books. And this show wasn't anything like I pictured in my head as a kid. Peter Jackson changed things yes but captured the feel and size of everything perfectly.
You do not EVER fast forward yourself talking about what you love. WTF girl. That's the best part of this kind of videos. Let it run free.
You are among your kind ❤😊
Speak all you want about Tolkien work and let us enjoy at normal speed 😅
Slow it down to .5 in the RUclips settings. That's the secret way to watch the original:)
I think you should react to Little Platoons 90-minute rants about this dumpster fire. It's way more entertaining than the actual show.
And Random Film Talk, whose reviews are each longer and more detailed than the episodes themselves.
Liene's Library. And from a man who reads the books again every year, Just Some Guy.
I always interpreted Finrod and Sauron's rap battle as Bilbo attempting to convert something incomprehensible into terms the readers of the Red Book might understand. Since Elves are typically bad at explaining what mortals refer to as "magic", a singing contest is as close as he could get without being able to use the idioms in Quenya that allude to primordial vibrations of willpower in the psychic dimension where the Firstborn and the Maia can intersect
I'm not sure I agree. This is a setting that was literally sung into existence. It seems perfectly reasonable that "magic" can have a singing component.
Also, I may be misremembering, but I do not remember the Silmarillion suggesting that Bilbo made up that song that told of their battle. At least the one included in the Silmarillion.
04:55
Galadriel was described as uncommonly tall and athletic. Possibly the most potent elf after crazy Feanor.
No joke, she might have choked a Balrog.
(Certainly would have broken Saruman in half if she got around to it.)
Galadriel versus Saruman:
Like, a really tragic looking old man beat down.
Onlookers who didn't know the backstory be like: "Oh my god! What is she doing to that poor old man! Somebody call the cops!
Like, Ronda Rousey versus Ben Shapiro bad.
There is more than one elvish language. Arguably Elrond outranks Gil-galad and is even related to the Maiar. I figure Galadriel just has some kind of nature magic that allows her to do things like swim across a sea or survive a volcanic blast. Neither Gil-galad or Celebrimbor seem to have been cast or directed very well.
Honestly after having tried the first episodes of season 2 abd again just being able to bear it. The power dynamics just seem so weird to me. So you have Galadriel daughter of finarfin, already one of the oldest and wisest elves left at the beginning if the second age. Then you have Gil-galad which depending on the source material is either he nephew through Orodreth or her cousin's sin through fingon. Either way Gil-galad should respect her council. Gil-galad himself being of royal descent and having been fistered my mulriple of the wisest elves, should be a few centuries into the second age a young but well aquainted king.
And then there is galadriel's son in law who is at the beginning of the second Age extremely young in comparison. Yet somehow he looks to be on seeing eye to eye to her and as the much more cautious character. And also flirts with galadriel his future mother in law who is thousands of years older than himself.
And instead of Gil-galad growing into an experienced and wise King, while fostering Elrond. Elrond is his chief political advisor.
Generally speakibg the whole condensing of the apparently non existing timeline, just makes no sense in the show, because the multigenerational developments are not even explained.
I'm just hoping that Sauron wins out over this version of Tolkien's heroes.
Stumbled on this video by accident and I am here for it! Subbed, even if you are all of the ism's and ist's known for not praising the shows greatness.
I guess I'm in the minority of Tolkien readers where I've been watching Rings of Power and just not comparing it to the books as I watch. I realize this is an interpretation/adaptation whatever you wanna term it, and I have that locked in my head while watching and just go with it and enjoy it as a bit of tv entertainment. I'm intrigued to see how certain things are visualized, like Numenor and even The Undying Lands, to witness the notion of a more militant minded Galadriel in her younger age, and to realize that time compression of events is a massive thing. Also its been interesting to see how the writers have toyed with the idea of Sauron as Annatar and how his relationship with Celebrimbor would have been.
I know its all violating "lore"... I'm not threatened by that, because the books are still on my shelf. The amount of people hating on this show, decrying the lack of commitment to lore. They're making a tv show, they're writing for that show, not the lore. I'm astonished that people just can't try to sit back and chill out and watch a show, particularly when we used to only have a couple fantasy related things put on the small screen not too long ago.
My approach with this rewatch was to achieve that mindset and enjoy the show. Unfortunately for me, once I did so, I found the writing, unrelated to Tolkien, deeply frustrating. I'm still doing my best to keep an open mind. I'm happy you've been enjoying it though! In no way am I trying to yuck other people's yum:)
People criticizing ROP are not 'threatened' by how it's violating Lore, they're just disgusted. Amazon could have spent $1B on 10 *original* fantasy shows by new writers, and instead chose to exploit the most beloved fantasy IP of all time for its guaranteed audience of millions and fed us pure dreck that sounds like it was written by ChatGPT. Sure, sometimes it's great to turn your brain off and just enjoy shiny visuals, but that incentivizes more SFF slop on the small screen while new IPs and writers are left in obscurity. Continue to enjoy if you so wish...
Don’t do it! You’ve got your whole life ahead of you! It’s not worth what you’ll lose!
I tried to do that lens option, i tried to be kind, after epside 4 of season 2 i just lost my patience with it, i think it is an absolute stain on some of the greatest work ever to grace paper.
This show is made by insane people, and they just unleashed the madness of season 2 upon the world
Best of luck to you. I had a hard time making it through the first episode.
Galadriel definitely isn't Xena. Xena would have figured out Sauron's plan in the first few episodes. Then she would have spent the rest of the season fighting him. By the end of the season he would have run away to the Southlands.
This is giving the show "a chance"? Imagine if you were trying to criticize it lmao
Love the book references! Don't feel like you need to like this show. It's not made in the spirit of what the professor would want. Amazon (big company(industry)) chopped down trees in Tolkien's home country for filming this show! He had the exact opposite messaging in what he wrote!
I’m a huge Tolkien nerd. My partner wanted to watch this and it’s just so inaccurate and so many plot points are just, Tolkien fan or not, implausible or dumb.
That’s said, it is well produced and has some great actors on the cast (Sauron, Elendil, “Gandalf”, all the main dwarves, Pharazon, Elrond and Cirdan) who put in committed performances. It’s certainly pretty and it has a great soundtrack.
Ultimately I explain it like this: it’s like the Chris Pine Star Trek movies: it’s completely lacking what makes Trek what it is, but it is rather fun.
It’s more ‘inspired by’ Tolkien than an adaption of Tolkien. Sad. There’s a lot to like here. It could have been amazing. Instead it’s just kinda entertaining and forgettable.
You'd have more fun playing Lord of the Rings Online. Even the 'fan-fiction' they are forced to create due to the same restrictions is 100 times better. They even added Oranoril to the lore in a quest which helped explain some of Middle Earth's history as she was the one whom recovered Celebrimbor's corpse from the enemy. That entire story could make a season's worth of episodes. But then again - cost would be more than cosplay with bad script.
I like it, albeit some very clunky dialog. From what I have scene so far of the new season it might be better written, and at least a bit closer to the lore than the first. But I did enjoy it, and it was well acted too.
Cool comments on the show. A fresh view. Please future noldor rantings at x1 speed
I feel like I'm the only person in the world who enjoyed it. It looked nice, I like the actors well enough, it was fairly easy to follow, it was good mindless entertainment even if it was badly written. But I guess I'm not a massive LOTR fan to be frustrated at them butchering Tolkeins work
I was so annoyed by the fact they removed galadriels wisdom she was one of the few characters to doubt Annatar, but in the show, she falls for his lies.
And can studios get the rights to the silmarilion i want to see the war of wrath and ungoliant.
Celebrimbor’s character might have more impact if he actually came off more as a brilliant and passionate artist instead of “disgruntled middle management”. He not the least bit “Feanorian” here, and so far in season 2 comes off closer to Milton the stapler guy.
Just found your channel, think you are absolutely spot on. Also subbed 😊
Thank you! And welcome:)