I’ve been wanting to try this class for a while. The echo is basically his inner demon, that escapes and pushes the bloodlust over the top. It’s a Damphir echo knight that uses a bow. Super mobile, and the opportunity attack? The bite of course, never need to swap weapons.
That’s a very cool idea. I love it when the supernatural influences a character. You can also use the bow from your echo, as the attack originates from your echo, which can set up some interesting scenarios.
My first PJ is with this subclass: a minotaur echo knight; now at lvl 7... At no combat moments, (for example) when he is very angry but the situation could be solved by persuasion/diplomatic negociations, he manifest his echo far from where the conversation is going on and it starts to hit the air, shout, charge over things without destroying anything, while he is just with his arms crossed, breathing and looking directly to their eyes; he could be quiet, but his constant hungry for blood and fisical violence, has to manifest in some way... Also, mí DM sometimes uses my echo by some kind of magic to make my echo talk to me, as if my future self could talk to me by it; mi minotaur doesn't trust in it and doesn't know yet what's going on.
That’s really cool!!! I love that image of just being stoic while your echo rampages trying to stay calm as the world is being torn asunder around you. It’s beautiful. I love it when DM’s get really into your character and start to take owner ship of a peace of it and make it into something connected to the story, it’s an amazing feeling
That’s true that puts sentinel at a whole new level. Your reach for opportunity attacks is soo wide it really changes the the way you think about combat
What if you used the “Reborn” lineage for this subclass? The incarnation could benefit from traits like: Ancestral Legacy, Deathless Nature, and Knowledge from a Past Life. Plus, your origin could involve the echo to have phantasmal limbs with a physically painful moment as your lost memory.
I really like that idea. What if when you use your echo and it’s the part of your soul that’s left right, the conscious part that lets you have control. So your body goes wild undead and attacks like a beast. Or maybe it’s random where your consciousness is, so you don’t know where you will be and the necrotic magic that keeps you “alive” exists. Depending on your alignment that could cause you to have to weigh the impact of the undead malady your power releases.
Maybe your echo is a reflection of a multiple personality, enslaved souls or in gaining this power you have lost your own identity (literally becoming the masses).
Small observation You mentioned swapping places with your echo when you are grappled. I dont think you can do that. To teleport you must use 15' of movement. When grappled, tied up or restrained your movement is effectively zero. Web spell, hold person, all of that should prevent teleportation. Even difficult terrain may negatively affect your ability to teleport.
Thanks for letting me know. I am not perfect. You could misty step out of those so I find that there is a reasonable excuse to allow it. I may have used the ruling in my game as reference.
@@TheSinisterheroes the are supprized if intelligent enough or they just see it as magical pokie hole. and may attack it which if hits breaks the portal. you can see and hear through the portal for the later feature. it gives more a different approach that can work in other settings like eberron or ravnica. high magic high fantasy settings.
That’s really well thought out. I must admit I was unable to imagine how to make that work, well done. It’s definitely a great concept. With this subclass a little bit of reflavoring goes really really far
Or in the chronicles of Riddick. The cult leader was giving echo knight vibes. Being two places at once, and having your choice of which one you are actually at.
After you cover every subclass are you headed into multiclass character concepts? For example, I made a legal Mind flayer out a a Dhampir needing cerebral fluid, abhorrent mind sorc, and great old one Warlock
I really have a thing about multiclassing…. I really don’t do it enough to really make a build well. But maybe I was thinking about covering races and talking about how I’d play them. It’s complicated cus I basically have no idea what I am doing.
@@TheSinisterheroes covering races used to mean more sadly. WotC is doing all they can to homogenize the concept of races. They don't even have a solid lore foundation anymore. (Blame the psychos that thought black people were orcs) But pulling research on them is still fun. And god's lore as well. Plenty to flesh out and really get an idea how to build a character.
@@erikenn you know i can get there being certain exceptions to races, you know maybe an orc thats mad wise or something, but there has to be a better way than removing the race identity. i thought dragon marks were headed in the right path with that, you had something that changed you you know. but it just hasn't gotten where it needs to be. most of the time i play races as is. with asi's
@@TheSinisterheroes I look forward to seeing more of your content. I'm currently looking for my next character concept. I've been running a battle master warlock trying to make the most Rangery character I can. Built on the concept of "What if Rangers had the warlock chassis? Short rests, utility spells, invocations to supplement, a threat at melee and range" It's actually working really well
That’s based on the concept of the ranger as like Aragorn right? That I think works well. I personally like the ranger class as a whole, though warlock is my favorite class by a lot I tend to stray away from multiclassing. I think with a lot of experience everyone gravitates towards multiclassing especially for campaigns that don’t go to level 20.
The echo can be created 15 feet away move 30 feet put you at 45 feet then to swap places cost you 15 feet so you can move 15 feet would be a total 60 feet. If you take 2rds to set it up then you can go out 75’
I’ve been wanting to try this class for a while.
The echo is basically his inner demon, that escapes and pushes the bloodlust over the top. It’s a Damphir echo knight that uses a bow. Super mobile, and the opportunity attack? The bite of course, never need to swap weapons.
That’s a very cool idea. I love it when the supernatural influences a character. You can also use the bow from your echo, as the attack originates from your echo, which can set up some interesting scenarios.
My first PJ is with this subclass: a minotaur echo knight; now at lvl 7... At no combat moments, (for example) when he is very angry but the situation could be solved by persuasion/diplomatic negociations, he manifest his echo far from where the conversation is going on and it starts to hit the air, shout, charge over things without destroying anything, while he is just with his arms crossed, breathing and looking directly to their eyes; he could be quiet, but his constant hungry for blood and fisical violence, has to manifest in some way... Also, mí DM sometimes uses my echo by some kind of magic to make my echo talk to me, as if my future self could talk to me by it; mi minotaur doesn't trust in it and doesn't know yet what's going on.
That’s really cool!!! I love that image of just being stoic while your echo rampages trying to stay calm as the world is being torn asunder around you. It’s beautiful.
I love it when DM’s get really into your character and start to take owner ship of a peace of it and make it into something connected to the story, it’s an amazing feeling
Echo knight pairs nicely with ancestral guardian for being a tank especially if you have the sentinel feat.
That’s true that puts sentinel at a whole new level. Your reach for opportunity attacks is soo wide it really changes the the way you think about combat
I'll do you one better.
A clone spell on a echo knight is a quadruple play!
Even using each other's echo!
Ruthless
I'm going to be using a Warforged Echo Knight that spits out his endoskeleton as his double
I like warforged, one of the main reasons is you can make up a lot of cool flavor for any of the skills through there tech.
What if you used the “Reborn” lineage for this subclass?
The incarnation could benefit from traits like: Ancestral Legacy, Deathless Nature, and Knowledge from a Past Life.
Plus, your origin could involve the echo to have phantasmal limbs with a physically painful moment as your lost memory.
I really like that idea. What if when you use your echo and it’s the part of your soul that’s left right, the conscious part that lets you have control. So your body goes wild undead and attacks like a beast. Or maybe it’s random where your consciousness is, so you don’t know where you will be and the necrotic magic that keeps you “alive” exists. Depending on your alignment that could cause you to have to weigh the impact of the undead malady your power releases.
It is an object, RAW.
@@gustaafargoan yes you are correct that dosent mean you can’t reflavor it as something else while still following the raw
@@TheSinisterheroes Sure, but then you would have to make to susceptible to magic if it is "undeadish", which it isn't now since it is just an object.
Maybe your echo is a reflection of a multiple personality, enslaved souls or in gaining this power you have lost your own identity (literally becoming the masses).
Just a little bit of flavor text and this subclass explodes with rp potential.
That is a great concept the legion character
Small observation
You mentioned swapping places with your echo when you are grappled. I dont think you can do that. To teleport you must use 15' of movement.
When grappled, tied up or restrained your movement is effectively zero.
Web spell, hold person, all of that should prevent teleportation.
Even difficult terrain may negatively affect your ability to teleport.
Thanks for letting me know. I am not perfect.
You could misty step out of those so I find that there is a reasonable excuse to allow it. I may have used the ruling in my game as reference.
in my campaign the echo knight is more of a portal fighter. summons a minor portal. dr strange style.
I gotta give it to you that’s something I didn’t even consider. How do your enemies react to seeing the portal then ? Do they just kinda walk by it?
@@TheSinisterheroes the are supprized if intelligent enough or they just see it as magical pokie hole. and may attack it which if hits breaks the portal. you can see and hear through the portal for the later feature. it gives more a different approach that can work in other settings like eberron or ravnica. high magic high fantasy settings.
That’s really well thought out. I must admit I was unable to imagine how to make that work, well done. It’s definitely a great concept. With this subclass a little bit of reflavoring goes really really far
@@TheSinisterheroes think of like doctor strange, personalized portal.
Or in the chronicles of Riddick. The cult leader was giving echo knight vibes. Being two places at once, and having your choice of which one you are actually at.
After you cover every subclass are you headed into multiclass character concepts?
For example, I made a legal Mind flayer out a a Dhampir needing cerebral fluid, abhorrent mind sorc, and great old one Warlock
I really have a thing about multiclassing…. I really don’t do it enough to really make a build well. But maybe I was thinking about covering races and talking about how I’d play them. It’s complicated cus I basically have no idea what I am doing.
@@TheSinisterheroes covering races used to mean more sadly. WotC is doing all they can to homogenize the concept of races. They don't even have a solid lore foundation anymore. (Blame the psychos that thought black people were orcs)
But pulling research on them is still fun. And god's lore as well. Plenty to flesh out and really get an idea how to build a character.
@@erikenn you know i can get there being certain exceptions to races, you know maybe an orc thats mad wise or something, but there has to be a better way than removing the race identity. i thought dragon marks were headed in the right path with that, you had something that changed you you know. but it just hasn't gotten where it needs to be. most of the time i play races as is. with asi's
@@TheSinisterheroes I look forward to seeing more of your content. I'm currently looking for my next character concept.
I've been running a battle master warlock trying to make the most Rangery character I can.
Built on the concept of "What if Rangers had the warlock chassis? Short rests, utility spells, invocations to supplement, a threat at melee and range"
It's actually working really well
That’s based on the concept of the ranger as like Aragorn right? That I think works well. I personally like the ranger class as a whole, though warlock is my favorite class by a lot I tend to stray away from multiclassing. I think with a lot of experience everyone gravitates towards multiclassing especially for campaigns that don’t go to level 20.
The echo can be created 15 feet away move 30 feet put you at 45 feet then to swap places cost you 15 feet so you can move 15 feet would be a total 60 feet.
If you take 2rds to set it up then you can go out 75’
That echo is broken. It’s a super powerful subclass and you can be melee at ranged. In actual practice it’s sooo much stronger than it looks.
Duplicity that is not terrible and actually usable? Who can say no to that?
I love it, the imagery the tactical uses. I think it’s great
I'd want my echo to look like a Nazgûl.
That’s what I am all about I love the aesthetic of the Nazgul