The rate of copper corrosion depends on the concentration of electrolytes in the water. And some small amount of copper is necessary in the human diet. That's why it's in multivitamins.
This sounds like a nice scare tactic from a pex or pvc salesman. If this was such an issue we'd have copper poisoning left and right, with lawsuits up the wazoo. No municipality would even approve copper pipe use in their building codes if this was such a scary issue. No developer would use it in any new construction, particularly at the additional expense. Just out of fear of the potential liability. So please...let's get real here. Could there have been some extraordinary set of circumstances that led to someone getting copper poisoning...sure, is this a common occurance across the board, nope. Also not an issue for the multitude of homes that aren't on municipal water with their own well and or whole house RO systems.
I worked for a research doctor. He recommend that I run the water until it becomes cool from the street. There is also lead in the solder on copper pipe. A human body does need a trace of copper, but no lead.
@@paulgush I have solder I bought in the 1990s from Home Depot has lead in it I don't use it on water pipes anymore. I remember when lead free came out they had both on the shelf for awhile. Actually looking at EPA website wasn't really until 2011 they required lead solder to be gone from everything.
This makes a great case for using Zurn PexB piping instead of copper. Regardling mitigation of the "poisoning" for those with copper piping.. I'd only be concerned with what is used for drinking or cooking - in my case I don't drink tap water, but we do use for some cooking.. so, I would flush out my kitchen faucet cold line before obtaining water for cooking.
wow, the wall thickness is almost exactly that of Type M. ASTM B 88 water tube is seamless. Welded copper tube is usually ASTM B 447 and is an engineered type tube.
Just found your videos. Recently retired. One customer had this problem in a hotel. Random little leaks in two inch hot water lines. Had never experienced that. Same customer called for another motel with pex A random leaks in walls three years old building. This went on for weeks. Finely insurance paid to repipe entire building. Then he also had a subway with pex B started leaking random spots in the runs in walls very hard to repair. Boggling the mind. Asked everyone I could think to ask. No good answer to my question. First time I have heard of this from anyone else.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc unfortunately since I retired I don't have any access to any of that anymore most of the pictures and samples of pipe we sent to the manufacturer
My dad built current house in 1970 used CPVC, still working great. Grandparents house was across the street older had copper, Granddad had issues and tests showed copper related issues they replaced all with CPVC where could at least 100 percent to kitchen and his issues stopped, and was on a well too so can happen with other water than chlorinated water. But I will always prefer well over municiple water anytime regardless. Chlorine issues popping up with some PEX too.
Only a problem with harsh water left sitting in pipes then used immediately unfiltered. People in major cities with good water quality that use their water often, especially if they use something like a water filter before drinking it, won't have a problem with this. We know this because copper pipe is ubiquitous and copper poisoning is not. Furthermore, it's normal to have trace amounts of copper in our diet so our bodies have mechanisms for handling it, unlike microplastics that we recently needed to deal with.
What if i installed a water filtration system in my house ? Does that diminish the effect ? 25 microns i think is the filter Looking forward to hear back from you , thanks
Put a 6 stage RO system on your drinking water it will taste as good or not better then any bottle water you can buy. Mine has a permeate pump saves up to 80% of the waste water which I have plumed to go on some plants. Mine has re-mineralization cartridge that gives you back some minerals so not drinking distilled water. I had wanted to install one for years always relied on small filter finally did and ice and water taste way better. You find drink more plane water because it tastes better.
Thank you , I have sent your videos to the big boss and hope he’s willing to make the change. Very sad to hear all this because I really have been loving uponor. For zurn is it copper rings with a hand crumper? And perhaps you have already answered this in a video but why would vez a crack and not b ?
Thank you , I have sent your videos to the big boss and hope he’s willing to make the change. Very sad to hear all this because I really have been loving uponor. For zurn is it copper rings with a hand crumper? And perhaps you have already answered this in a video but why would vez a crack and not b ?
Copper is an essential mineral in our diets, in the right amount. Copper is also naturally antimicrobial which is great for preventing biological growth inside the pipe. Don't blindly follow the general statements in this vid. If the pH of your water is in the 6.5 - 9 range and your pipes are sized correctly for your home you will most likely be fine. Have your water tested for Copper if you are worried.
There is no seam in copper pipe. Only galvanized steel pipe will have a seam and that will cause leakage points to all run along the line of this seam. Your example of copper tube does not exhibit this characteristic proving there is no seam. Any lines you might see on the inside are die lines made during manufacture. But you are right, copper can be very slowly etched by chlorine in city water. My mom and dad lived most of their lives in houses that had copper piping sweat soldered with lead-tin solder. City water was chlorinated and probably fluorinated too. But Mom made it to 96 years and dad lived to over 100 with no apparent side effects from the lead or the copper. One of their German friends was shot during WW2 and had numerous fragments of the lead bullet left in him, some drifting to other parts of his body over the years. He was in his upper 80's when he died. So I wouldn't panic over either metal in plumbing systems.
I'm so confused what to use to repipe the house. Seems like w/ Pex we are getting a 6-10-year lifespan then repiping again. Copper is toxic. What is the long term solution? I am on well water and the acidic nature vs copper isn't great.
If you're on a well, you must put an acid mitigation system in or you'll be repiping the copper. According to Integrity, the PEX failures seem to be from chloramine in the water which is what you get on municipal water. You shouldn't have that problem on a well. Best thing to do is get a water analysis and see what you're dealing with.
Lol. If you reach breakpoint chlorination you won’t have ammonia in your water. Also, Your water department will add phosphates that will stick to the insides of the pipe and help prevent corrosion and copper leaching. That said, there’s no perfect pipe. Get an RO system and add a remineralization filter if you want. That will take out everything, lead, copper, fluoride…, etc.
Not True !!! The ammonia lasts much longer than chlorine and the ammonia is used for this very reason it stabilizes the chlorine and makes it posable for the chlorine to make it from the process plant all the way to your home. Phosphates really? will not stop leaching or etching of copper pipe that is why copper pipe leaks are the number one claims on homeowners insurance policies. What does a whole house RO unit cost do you happen to know? What happens to the copper pipe if you install a whole house RO unit?
@@IntegrityRepipeInc They make these things called point of use filters. Use one for your drinking water, not your whole house. No water treatment plant is adding ammonia to "stabilize" chlorine. Unless they want to recreate WW1. Once breakpoint chlorination is reached (which it must and must be maintained in the system in order to pass regulations) there is no more free ammonia. This is tested by your water plant testing for a free chlorine residual. once there is a free residual the free ammonia is gone. Phosphates not being added are the reason why Flint Michigan had such a huge problem so suddenly. They weren't added and the protective layer built up over decades was quickly destroyed. which drastically increased lead levels in the drinking water. That and the reason for checking for a free chlorine residual are water treatment 101. I can't speak for your water treatment plant, just the one I operate.
@@BB-nn9en Breakpoint Chlorination is taught at every water academy and university in the USA. Example americanwatercollege.org . You missed a few things. Go to search and type in breakpoint chlorination. Happy hunting. By the way you forgot to tell the public what a whole house RO unit cost is and you forgot to mention that it is illegal in every plumbing code nation wide to use copper in an RO unit.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc I never said anything about a whole house RO filter, you did. Get a point of use RO filter, like what everyone understands to mean when a home RO filter system is mentioned. I deal with chlorine residuals and ammonia every day. Once you achieve breakpoint chlorination you wont have free ammonia.
Gotta go K-copper. My experience that slight bit of thickness over L is worth it. M you wonder why they even make it, but cheap has a good market of customers. The 2” service lines of K copper and angle stops I’ve worked on are 27 years old, been charged with high pressure Reclaimed water the entire time (Reclaim having much higher amounts of chloramine than domestic water, and they’ve never had one leak ! Knock on wood. The only thing I’ve done to them is replace the flared brass angle stop; after 20+ years they begin to seize and become really hard to turn with the T handles. It’s best to change them because you want them to be reliable. Nothing is worse then going to use an angle stop and then it breaks in the closed position or vice versa, then you gotta go to a distribution gate valve and start shutting down streets, buildings etc. I go K all the way. But good luck finding a contractor who will install it. Even if the customer asks for it, most of the customers don’t have a clue of what to check label, micrometer thickness etc, so the contractor buys L or sadly M and then sands off the label and tells the customer, yeah I got you K and pockets the difference 💰. Residential folks have been ripped off by contractors and architects for decades. If you find a good contractor- keep him ! And treat him well. Most of them are a bunch of liars. Putting L copper through slabs of foundation in SoCal was the biggest scam to residential owners to date. Why the hell would you want couple hundred feet of pipe and fittings(not even wrapped for corrosion protection) under your home:??? So 10 years later you can start re-piping homes and ensure another 10-20 years after that of job security. There’s no reason why these homes had to be built this way. Other than cheap and planning to take advantage of folks for easy money. They very easily could of stubbed the copper service line into the wall of the house and ran all the lateral lines through the framing etc to the fixtures with copper, pex, galvanized, pvc whatever your heart or plumbing code desired. Slabbing all that was was just money maker and the public being screwed. I don’t think there’s a perfect pipe, they all have ups and downs. For distribution piping I’d say Ductile is probably the best (if installed with the proper cathodic protection and cement mortar lining and wrapping corrosion) but that takes a lot of work and training to really get the crew to perform. A lot of guys installing it skip those steps and then it sees issues. AC (concrete asbestos “transite” pipe) believe it or not is pretty good transmission pipe but it’s outlawed in most places now and was susceptible to stress fractures. C900 pvc is the go to in a lot of warm climates but it does have a leeching issue microscopically and has less max pressure ratings then other options. HDPE fusion is excellent stuff, but requires highly specialized tools for installation. In terms of the small stuff for homes etc, it’s the same they all have ups and downs. Coppers biggest issue is, using too thin, and lazy installers, a lot of the green corrosion comes from lazy soldering practices. Too much flux is applied and never wiped off after cooled; and the acid burn and eats the copper over years, typically you see the green corrosion near fittings and valves where they really heavily applied flux and then solder, or a few inches away where it dripped down and never got wiped. Pex has its issues and growing with water quality issues. Galvanize pretty much sucks because eventually a 1/2” pipe becomes a 1/16” I.D. Lol, pvc for pressurized systems is not bad but the glue tends to fail on sizing 2” and up, also seeing some old glues applied 30+ years ago eaten up by the chloramines, especially in water systems and mains converted to reclaim water that were once domestic. Sch 80 is probably the best service main for a house from meter to copper stub into home. 40 is good but some of the water districts are pushing 120+ psi to peoples home, and that’s pushing the limits of 40 fittings. I’ve seen the 40 fail too many times. Another good way to build a service line would be, pvc as a sleeve, and run Pex through it with a pull box, so if you ever needed a whole new line you could pull a new one easily. But I don’t think code allows burial of Pex yet technically. I don’t know, there’s no perfect pipe. You just have to pick something that suits the needs and use it wisely- not under slabs for no reason 🙄 Maybe one day they’ll make a titanium pipe. Plumbers will install it and then be unemployed for 1000 years lol 😂. Last tips if your in the underground industry: -wrap all copper and brass buried or stubbed up lines with PVC pipe wrap. 10 Mil minimum. -wrap all ductile gate valves and fittings with Mil Plastic and thrust block appropriately, and then turn the Freaking Gate valves ONCE a year! Come on folks let’s start paying enough tax to budget for the cities for making sure there’s enough staff to ACTUALLY maintain valves, angle stops and hydrants so they actually LAST! And are Reliable. -> NOT need it and it breaks, then you have to replace one to fix another. (All tax/money/budget cut and “saved” by bean counting administration -> LOST on premature failures and replacement) get rid of the bean counters and get people that ACTUALLY WORK!
Fitting under the slab have always been illegal. Please share what the copper wall thickness of the fittings you use are. Copper wall Type L fittings or Type K fittings have never been made .
@@IntegrityRepipeInc yeah- another downside to copper. I don’t know why they never made copper type fittings: Like: K-L-M-DWV specific fittings They just use the same fittings for all types. Stupid. But I guess they had to make it idiot proof: because installers tend to be sadly to say more often then not lazy and un trained- so you’d probably see wrong fittings used on pipes if they did do that. Like PVC is hard to screw up: sch 40 - White Sch 80 - dark grey Sch 120 (not available in U.S only Canada to my knowledge). But they probably didn’t do that for copper because the idiot proof factor. 😂 They didn’t want to color code or coat the copper. (Though the copper label does usually have a small stripe) but that probably was the line of idiot proof 😂 that’s funny. As far as the thickness I use. Man I don’t have that one memorized. You got me curious though now. Next time I open up one of those 27 year old 2” K lines, I will get a micrometer on it 🫡. Another thing I think helps the reliability of the K line I’m use to, it’s made of the long sweep sweated 90 instead of the traditional quick 90 elbow. I think that plays a huge factor in reliability. The elbow is a really abrupt bend and even with thrust blocking, it’s only common sense there’s gonna be a stress factor is that quick turn vs the long bend 90 sweep, the water just kind of nicely sweeps the turn up the standpipe to the angle stop , instead of just an abrupt 90 degree. As far as the homes go, I think a good way to combat the water hammer effect is use those sweat on copper water hammer arrestors. Especially near the tub 🛁 where higher flow goes from ON/OFF very fast. Those absorb the vibration instead of it getting put into the pipe and fittings. Put them in a nice access panel. Let’s remember folks max flow rates for piping should never exceed: 7ft/s (metal piping ex: copper) and 5ft/s (plastic pvc etc). And a 1/2 tub spout is most likely gonna exceed 5 or even 7 ft/s if it’s wide open. A 1/2 wide open line, even if you have a 70XL Zurn regulator on the home, psi will be roughly 50 maybe cranked to 70psi, that 1/2 wide open spout, depending on the type supply, let’s say 1/2” K copper- should never exceed 4gpm. otherwise it will surpass the 7ft/s velocity max; that will then cause water hammer issues. Odds are @70psi that 1/2 K supply will be putting out at least 10+ gpm (it’s easy to bucket test tub spouts). Usually they all exceed what they were built for. Hence a good idea to put the arrestors in. Do you guys use those? I haven’t heard you mention those. If not, how come? Curious.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc yeah but it varies water district to district. It should all be federally regulated: same water, same specifications. The business of making things locally controlled is stupid and serves none one but the rich man. Hate to be political but in my opinion, water is a basic necessity for human beings which can easily be across the board the same quality for all individuals. It wasn’t until like the last 10 years where they finally passed the clean water drinking act at the federal level. But that was just a start. It certainly didn’t fix all the social issues we have in the country regarding water. Some areas people could literally light there two on fire 🔥. To me that’s inhumane.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc are you referring to the shark bite “push -to-connect” fittings or the brass and or plastic ones that they sell at the big box stores..?
A decent RO system should remove most copper. You can get whole house RO systems but its more realistic just to get RO for drinking. You can even hook it up to your ice makers/refrigerators to remove harmful compounds from your ice.
No man 🥴 SOMEONE USED THAT IN AN ( AC ) AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT ‼️you have to run (K AND ‼️ you can't run RO. water through any copper But THAT IS THE ONLY THING HOUSEHOLD THAT CAN DO THAT‼️
The rate of copper corrosion depends on the concentration of electrolytes in the water. And some small amount of copper is necessary in the human diet. That's why it's in multivitamins.
This sounds like a nice scare tactic from a pex or pvc salesman. If this was such an issue we'd have copper poisoning left and right, with lawsuits up the wazoo. No municipality would even approve copper pipe use in their building codes if this was such a scary issue. No developer would use it in any new construction, particularly at the additional expense. Just out of fear of the potential liability. So please...let's get real here. Could there have been some extraordinary set of circumstances that led to someone getting copper poisoning...sure, is this a common occurance across the board, nope. Also not an issue for the multitude of homes that aren't on municipal water with their own well and or whole house RO systems.
I have not consumed tap water in 25 years. I get all my toxicity through bottled distilled water in plastic bottles
I worked for a research doctor. He recommend that I run the water until it becomes cool from the street. There is also lead in the solder on copper pipe. A human body does need a trace of copper, but no lead.
Not always so. For decades now plumbing solder has been lead free. But yes, we do need some copper in out diet
@@paulgush Much old plumbing is still working (with lead). Most new is in plastic pipe
@@paulgush I have solder I bought in the 1990s from Home Depot has lead in it I don't use it on water pipes anymore. I remember when lead free came out they had both on the shelf for awhile. Actually looking at EPA website wasn't really until 2011 they required lead solder to be gone from everything.
I wondered since copper sulfate is used to kill tree roots in septics. Thanks for all this relevant information!
interesting... now my question for you would be, can you be certain that the modern alternatives for copper are any less poisonous
This makes a great case for using Zurn PexB piping instead of copper. Regardling mitigation of the "poisoning" for those with copper piping.. I'd only be concerned with what is used for drinking or cooking - in my case I don't drink tap water, but we do use for some cooking.. so, I would flush out my kitchen faucet cold line before obtaining water for cooking.
wow, the wall thickness is almost exactly that of Type M. ASTM B 88 water tube is seamless. Welded copper tube is usually ASTM B 447 and is an engineered type tube.
Wow..!
Thanks for this video.
Just found your videos. Recently retired. One customer had this problem in a hotel. Random little leaks in two inch hot water lines. Had never experienced that. Same customer called for another motel with pex A random leaks in walls three years old building. This went on for weeks. Finely insurance paid to repipe entire building. Then he also had a subway with pex B started leaking random spots in the runs in walls very hard to repair. Boggling the mind. Asked everyone I could think to ask. No good answer to my question. First time I have heard of this from anyone else.
Send me some pictures of the pipe and leaks please. Also pictures of the fittings.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc unfortunately since I retired I don't have any access to any of that anymore most of the pictures and samples of pipe we sent to the manufacturer
Wooooow, thank you for this information.
It sounds like we should use Stainless steel for pipes.
sadly, most Americans have an excess of chromium in their bodies. It's from stainless this and that.
$$$$ 😪
If your water is acidic it could potentially leach nickel and chromium from the stainless.
Stainless can be worse even cooking in Stainless steel pans if you are using aggressive scrubbers you my be poisoning yourself
My dad built current house in 1970 used CPVC, still working great. Grandparents house was across the street older had copper, Granddad had issues and tests showed copper related issues they replaced all with CPVC where could at least 100 percent to kitchen and his issues stopped, and was on a well too so can happen with other water than chlorinated water. But I will always prefer well over municiple water anytime regardless. Chlorine issues popping up with some PEX too.
great videos!
Good stuff thanks joe
Only a problem with harsh water left sitting in pipes then used immediately unfiltered. People in major cities with good water quality that use their water often, especially if they use something like a water filter before drinking it, won't have a problem with this. We know this because copper pipe is ubiquitous and copper poisoning is not. Furthermore, it's normal to have trace amounts of copper in our diet so our bodies have mechanisms for handling it, unlike microplastics that we recently needed to deal with.
I am from a village in Caucasia, even my grandparents knew copper is poisonous if you don't properly tin them first.
What if i installed a water filtration system in my house ? Does that diminish the effect ? 25 microns i think is the filter
Looking forward to hear back from you , thanks
What if I'm on a well? I repiped my whole house in copper a few years ago. I have well water. I don't seem to have any issues.
So plastic isn't toxic? What else should we use?
I’ve been purging my pipes for years, no joke. It just makes sense to do it, frankly.
Put a 6 stage RO system on your drinking water it will taste as good or not better then any bottle water you can buy. Mine has a permeate pump saves up to 80% of the waste water which I have plumed to go on some plants. Mine has re-mineralization cartridge that gives you back some minerals so not drinking distilled water. I had wanted to install one for years always relied on small filter finally did and ice and water taste way better. You find drink more plane water because it tastes better.
I’ve several videos in and it’s BLOWING MY MIND.
If uponor leaks,, then what pipe do you recommend now??
I install Zurn Pex B. Zurn Pipe. Zurn Fittings. Zurn Rings.
Thank you ,
I have sent your videos to the big boss and hope he’s willing to make the change. Very sad to hear all this because I really have been loving uponor.
For zurn is it copper rings with a hand crumper?
And perhaps you have already answered this in a video but why would vez a crack and not b ?
Thank you ,
I have sent your videos to the big boss and hope he’s willing to make the change. Very sad to hear all this because I really have been loving uponor.
For zurn is it copper rings with a hand crumper?
And perhaps you have already answered this in a video but why would vez a crack and not b ?
@@benanderson7093 Please watch the one I just released.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc Zurn copper rings?
silicone rubber garden house, testing now n my home. custom job !!!!
Copper is an essential mineral in our diets, in the right amount. Copper is also naturally antimicrobial which is great for preventing biological growth inside the pipe. Don't blindly follow the general statements in this vid. If the pH of your water is in the 6.5 - 9 range and your pipes are sized correctly for your home you will most likely be fine. Have your water tested for Copper if you are worried.
There is no seam in copper pipe. Only galvanized steel pipe will have a seam and that will cause leakage points to all run along the line of this seam. Your example of copper tube does not exhibit this characteristic proving there is no seam. Any lines you might see on the inside are die lines made during manufacture.
But you are right, copper can be very slowly etched by chlorine in city water. My mom and dad lived most of their lives in houses that had copper piping sweat soldered with lead-tin solder. City water was chlorinated and probably fluorinated too. But Mom made it to 96 years and dad lived to over 100 with no apparent side effects from the lead or the copper. One of their German friends was shot during WW2 and had numerous fragments of the lead bullet left in him, some drifting to other parts of his body over the years. He was in his upper 80's when he died. So I wouldn't panic over either metal in plumbing systems.
I’m installing a well screw it with a whole house filter and installing pex B
I'm so confused what to use to repipe the house. Seems like w/ Pex we are getting a 6-10-year lifespan then repiping again. Copper is toxic. What is the long term solution? I am on well water and the acidic nature vs copper isn't great.
If you're on a well, you must put an acid mitigation system in or you'll be repiping the copper. According to Integrity, the PEX failures seem to be from chloramine in the water which is what you get on municipal water. You shouldn't have that problem on a well. Best thing to do is get a water analysis and see what you're dealing with.
@@ohger1 Hi John-Del. well said, that answer is perfect! I install Zurn Pex B Pipe, fittings and rings. That is my recommendation. Zurn Pex B.
I use Zurn Pex B pipe, fittings and rings. That is what I install. Zurn Pex B.
@@ohger1 Thank you for your reply. Erikl.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc do you mean copper rings?
Soft copper which is type k seems to hold up the best from what ive seen.
soft copper can be type L
Do most areas in the US use chlorine or Chloramine?
Yes and many of them refuse to disclose it to the public they serve.
Yes and they are legally required to tell you. Anyone can download their water report.
Joe, educate yourself on chlorination vs chlorimination of municpal water systems.
I'm starting to think this guy has stock in PEX B I've had my fair share of run into plumber's that are scammers .
Using toilet should be enough to keep pipes flushed enough maybe.
There's still tons of solid lead water mains all across America
Lol. If you reach breakpoint chlorination you won’t have ammonia in your water.
Also, Your water department will add phosphates that will stick to the insides of the pipe and help prevent corrosion and copper leaching.
That said, there’s no perfect pipe. Get an RO system and add a remineralization filter if you want. That will take out everything, lead, copper, fluoride…, etc.
Not True !!! The ammonia lasts much longer than chlorine and the ammonia is used for this very reason it stabilizes the chlorine and makes it posable for the chlorine to make it from the process plant all the way to your home. Phosphates really? will not stop leaching or etching of copper pipe that is why copper pipe leaks are the number one claims on homeowners insurance policies. What does a whole house RO unit cost do you happen to know? What happens to the copper pipe if you install a whole house RO unit?
@@IntegrityRepipeInc They make these things called point of use filters. Use one for your drinking water, not your whole house.
No water treatment plant is adding ammonia to "stabilize" chlorine. Unless they want to recreate WW1.
Once breakpoint chlorination is reached (which it must and must be maintained in the system in order to pass regulations) there is no more free ammonia.
This is tested by your water plant testing for a free chlorine residual. once there is a free residual the free ammonia is gone.
Phosphates not being added are the reason why Flint Michigan had such a huge problem so suddenly. They weren't added and the protective layer built up over decades was quickly destroyed. which drastically increased lead levels in the drinking water. That and the reason for checking for a free chlorine residual are water treatment 101. I can't speak for your water treatment plant, just the one I operate.
@@BB-nn9en Breakpoint Chlorination is taught at every water academy and university in the USA. Example americanwatercollege.org . You missed a few things. Go to search and type in breakpoint chlorination. Happy hunting. By the way you forgot to tell the public what a whole house RO unit cost is and you forgot to mention that it is illegal in every plumbing code nation wide to use copper in an RO unit.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc I never said anything about a whole house RO filter, you did. Get a point of use RO filter, like what everyone understands to mean when a home RO filter system is mentioned.
I deal with chlorine residuals and ammonia every day. Once you achieve breakpoint chlorination you wont have free ammonia.
Gotta go K-copper. My experience that slight bit of thickness over L is worth it. M you wonder why they even make it, but cheap has a good market of customers.
The 2” service lines of K copper and angle stops I’ve worked on are 27 years old, been charged with high pressure Reclaimed water the entire time (Reclaim having much higher amounts of chloramine than domestic water, and they’ve never had one leak ! Knock on wood. The only thing I’ve done to them is replace the flared brass angle stop; after 20+ years they begin to seize and become really hard to turn with the T handles. It’s best to change them because you want them to be reliable. Nothing is worse then going to use an angle stop and then it breaks in the closed position or vice versa, then you gotta go to a distribution gate valve and start shutting down streets, buildings etc.
I go K all the way. But good luck finding a contractor who will install it. Even if the customer asks for it, most of the customers don’t have a clue of what to check label, micrometer thickness etc, so the contractor buys L or sadly M and then sands off the label and tells the customer, yeah I got you K and pockets the difference 💰. Residential folks have been ripped off by contractors and architects for decades. If you find a good contractor- keep him ! And treat him well. Most of them are a bunch of liars.
Putting L copper through slabs of foundation in SoCal was the biggest scam to residential owners to date. Why the hell would you want couple hundred feet of pipe and fittings(not even wrapped for corrosion protection) under your home:??? So 10 years later you can start re-piping homes and ensure another 10-20 years after that of job security.
There’s no reason why these homes had to be built this way. Other than cheap and planning to take advantage of folks for easy money. They very easily could of stubbed the copper service line into the wall of the house and ran all the lateral lines through the framing etc to the fixtures with copper, pex, galvanized, pvc whatever your heart or plumbing code desired. Slabbing all that was was just money maker and the public being screwed.
I don’t think there’s a perfect pipe, they all have ups and downs. For distribution piping I’d say Ductile is probably the best (if installed with the proper cathodic protection and cement mortar lining and wrapping corrosion) but that takes a lot of work and training to really get the crew to perform. A lot of guys installing it skip those steps and then it sees issues. AC (concrete asbestos “transite” pipe) believe it or not is pretty good transmission pipe but it’s outlawed in most places now and was susceptible to stress fractures. C900 pvc is the go to in a lot of warm climates but it does have a leeching issue microscopically and has less max pressure ratings then other options. HDPE fusion is excellent stuff, but requires highly specialized tools for installation. In terms of the small stuff for homes etc, it’s the same they all have ups and downs. Coppers biggest issue is, using too thin, and lazy installers, a lot of the green corrosion comes from lazy soldering practices. Too much flux is applied and never wiped off after cooled; and the acid burn and eats the copper over years, typically you see the green corrosion near fittings and valves where they really heavily applied flux and then solder, or a few inches away where it dripped down and never got wiped. Pex has its issues and growing with water quality issues. Galvanize pretty much sucks because eventually a 1/2” pipe becomes a 1/16” I.D. Lol, pvc for pressurized systems is not bad but the glue tends to fail on sizing 2” and up, also seeing some old glues applied 30+ years ago eaten up by the chloramines, especially in water systems and mains converted to reclaim water that were once domestic. Sch 80 is probably the best service main for a house from meter to copper stub into home. 40 is good but some of the water districts are pushing 120+ psi to peoples home, and that’s pushing the limits of 40 fittings. I’ve seen the 40 fail too many times. Another good way to build a service line would be, pvc as a sleeve, and run Pex through it with a pull box, so if you ever needed a whole new line you could pull a new one easily. But I don’t think code allows burial of Pex yet technically.
I don’t know, there’s no perfect pipe. You just have to pick something that suits the needs and use it wisely- not under slabs for no reason 🙄
Maybe one day they’ll make a titanium pipe. Plumbers will install it and then be unemployed for 1000 years lol 😂.
Last tips if your in the underground industry:
-wrap all copper and brass buried or stubbed up lines with PVC pipe wrap. 10 Mil minimum.
-wrap all ductile gate valves and fittings with Mil Plastic and thrust block appropriately, and then turn the Freaking Gate valves ONCE a year! Come on folks let’s start paying enough tax to budget for the cities for making sure there’s enough staff to ACTUALLY maintain valves, angle stops and hydrants so they actually LAST! And are Reliable. -> NOT need it and it breaks, then you have to replace one to fix another. (All tax/money/budget cut and “saved” by bean counting administration -> LOST on premature failures and replacement) get rid of the bean counters and get people that ACTUALLY WORK!
Fitting under the slab have always been illegal. Please share what the copper wall thickness of the fittings you use are. Copper wall Type L fittings or Type K fittings have never been made .
@@IntegrityRepipeInc yeah- another downside to copper. I don’t know why they never made copper type fittings:
Like: K-L-M-DWV specific fittings
They just use the same fittings for all types. Stupid. But I guess they had to make it idiot proof: because installers tend to be sadly to say more often then not lazy and un trained- so you’d probably see wrong fittings used on pipes if they did do that.
Like PVC is hard to screw up:
sch 40 - White
Sch 80 - dark grey
Sch 120 (not available in U.S only Canada to my knowledge).
But they probably didn’t do that for copper because the idiot proof factor. 😂
They didn’t want to color code or coat the copper. (Though the copper label does usually have a small stripe) but that probably was the line of idiot proof 😂 that’s funny.
As far as the thickness I use. Man I don’t have that one memorized. You got me curious though now. Next time I open up one of those 27 year old 2” K lines, I will get a micrometer on it 🫡. Another thing I think helps the reliability of the K line I’m use to, it’s made of the long sweep sweated 90 instead of the traditional quick 90 elbow. I think that plays a huge factor in reliability. The elbow is a really abrupt bend and even with thrust blocking, it’s only common sense there’s gonna be a stress factor is that quick turn vs the long bend 90 sweep, the water just kind of nicely sweeps the turn up the standpipe to the angle stop , instead of just an abrupt 90 degree.
As far as the homes go, I think a good way to combat the water hammer effect is use those sweat on copper water hammer arrestors. Especially near the tub 🛁 where higher flow goes from ON/OFF very fast. Those absorb the vibration instead of it getting put into the pipe and fittings. Put them in a nice access panel.
Let’s remember folks max flow rates for piping should never exceed: 7ft/s (metal piping ex: copper) and 5ft/s (plastic pvc etc). And a 1/2 tub spout is most likely gonna exceed 5 or even 7 ft/s if it’s wide open. A 1/2 wide open line, even if you have a 70XL Zurn regulator on the home, psi will be roughly 50 maybe cranked to 70psi, that 1/2 wide open spout, depending on the type supply, let’s say 1/2” K copper- should never exceed 4gpm. otherwise it will surpass the 7ft/s velocity max; that will then cause water hammer issues. Odds are @70psi that 1/2 K supply will be putting out at least 10+ gpm (it’s easy to bucket test tub spouts). Usually they all exceed what they were built for. Hence a good idea to put the arrestors in.
Do you guys use those? I haven’t heard you mention those. If not, how come? Curious.
@@mrDmastr19 I’ve used schedule 120 several times on deep water wells and I haven’t had a problem getting sch. 120
@@plumbbuild6517 cool to hear. What state are you in?
@@mrDmastr19 Ga.
I am on a well and the copper was being eaten up, I used pex-a and no issues 6 yesrs now
Please Read and follow @John-Del advice in the Reply Below.
That’s what happens when they push for “no regulations” it should be regulated so they HAVE to disclose the information.
That’s what happens when they push for “no regulations” it should be regulated so they HAVE to disclose the information.
@@mrDmastr19 Hi Dennis. It is already regulated and always was. You may might not have understood that.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc yeah but it varies water district to district. It should all be federally regulated: same water, same specifications.
The business of making things locally controlled is stupid and serves none one but the rich man.
Hate to be political but in my opinion, water is a basic necessity for human beings which can easily be across the board the same quality for all individuals.
It wasn’t until like the last 10 years where they finally passed the clean water drinking act at the federal level. But that was just a start. It certainly didn’t fix all the social issues we have in the country regarding water.
Some areas people could literally light there two on fire 🔥. To me that’s inhumane.
I flush my cold drinking water faucet every morning! Now you know someone that does that. I guess there is no safe water delivery system!!
Nothing is perfect or last forever bro, not even you!
Water from public municipalities is also bad. I'll stick to my filtered well water.
Chlorine and floride are not for my family.
RO filtered? i have seen a lot of harmful natural and man made compounds in well water.
@@MichaelMantion True but you'll never find bits of toilet paper and prescription drugs!
Why take a chance!
Stick with the tested and true.
Rainwater and grain alcohol.
What about houses with copper piping and private well Does the copper still Leach out without Is chlorine and ammonia
Sounds like we should just drink from a steam and get beaver fever, because poly Ethel cross link sounds much better!
GAC whole house filtration, problem solved.
Is SharkBite pex any good or dose it have the same problems
Sharkbite fittings fail is what I have seen. I do not use Sharkbite Pipe Ever.
@@IntegrityRepipeInc are you referring to the shark bite “push -to-connect” fittings or the brass and or plastic ones that they sell at the big box stores..?
@@IntegrityRepipeInc Aaron 45 is asking about Sharkbite PIPE. What's wrong with it?
Will a whole house water filter prevent breakpoint chlorination?
A decent RO system should remove most copper. You can get whole house RO systems but its more realistic just to get RO for drinking. You can even hook it up to your ice makers/refrigerators to remove harmful compounds from your ice.
No man 🥴
SOMEONE USED THAT IN
AN ( AC ) AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT ‼️you have to run (K
AND ‼️ you can't run
RO. water through any copper
But THAT IS THE ONLY THING
HOUSEHOLD THAT CAN DO THAT‼️
🤣
metal no more !!!!
Joe is the real deal
I thought only type k was approved for underground