Is Copper Better Than PEX? (COMPLETE GUIDE) | GOT2LEARN
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- Опубликовано: 5 май 2024
- What's better, copper or PEX? In this video, i'll cover everything you need to know to better choose what's best for you, and also what I prefer and why.
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DISCLAIMER: Got2Learn is NOT responsible for any damage done to a property of which the plumbing wasn't done by a professional, I do not recommend doing your own plumbing if you are unsure about what you are doing, always hire a LICENSED contractor when doing any type of plumbing so you can be covered by insurances if something does happen, these videos are for entertainment purposes only!
I'm an electrician, I've been trying to learn more about the other trades. Your channel has helped quite a bit, I've learned a lot.
Great to hear, the more knowledge the better!
Same here.
Electrician as well.
This channel is awesome for learning the plumbing trade
copper is conductive.
Ha, I'm a plumber that's now also a controls electrician.. always good to know there are others out there that don't limit the trade knowledge to their own single trade, my 3 early years of framing gave me the knowledge as a plumber to know what not to drill... as a sparky, your plumbing and heating knowledge should lean towards boiler controls and pumps primarily if its to be a compliment to your trade :)
same here
With well over 40 years of absolutely zero experience with plumbing, I prefer sending my wife down to the creek with a pale to fetch my water. It's a 4 mile round trip, but I believe she enjoys the exercise.
🤣
Thank GOD you made that comment. My wife keeps giving me that “No other man on the planet makes his wife go down to the creek to get water”…..crap. Now I can show her your comment! 👍.
😆
"She's a sturdy woman. Her 3rd baby come out sideways. She didn't scream er nuthin'."
The question is how much is it per lineal foot for her to get the bucket of water and back. Is it cheaper and more flexible than pex?
Honestly love copper I know most of my work will never been seen but the craftsmanship is a thing of self pride I guess
PEX, I have a cabin here in Alaska. When I close up in late fall, I shut down water, blow down and leave. I like having the piece of mind knowing I have way less chance of freeze ups and damage. My stub out are all copper, I have a manifold in my mechanical room where everything is copper. If it's behind a wall, its PEX. I was up at the cabin New Years day and it was -23 degrees at noon. They both have their use. Great videos by the way!
You are most welcome, please share if you can, it helps the channel tremendously ✌✌
I am in the Restoration water mitigation industry. Copper is my friend when it comes to leaks, mostly in the winter due to poor insulation/temperature control. That being said I was on one job where a rat chewed through a pex line on the 3rd floor. All three floors were flooded.
When I use to work in a plumbing store, I cannot tell you how common it was for mice or other rodents to cause leaks on pex pipes. It's almost as if rodents are attracted to pex piping.
Yes, because they can easily sharpen their teeth on it, and it's nice and warm inside ;)
@@Got2Learn there are usually two things with it, they hear the water and smell the salt.
When installers are handling the tubing (or wires or whatever else...) they leave nice, sweaty finger prints all over everything. Rodents looking for some salt lick with chew through the pipe to get every last bit just like they chew through electrical insulation. The upside is that clean water is a lot easier to deal with then a burned down house.
The other big thing though is that they can actually hear the water. Especially in dry regions, water is enough of a motivation for rats to chew through pipe. If you don't have PEX supply lines, they will go after your PVC DWV system.
Hopefully they don't push for more bioplastics in home construction though. Rats love the taste of soy based plastics and if you give them both food and water - they will never leave.
@@joek5161 good to know, thanks for this!
Good info. 👍🏽
I had pex installed last year and now I'm dealing with $2000 in drywall repair!! Stupid Mice!! T^T
Good video,first of all I have never bored holes in studs and rafters to route pipes,the way I was taught is to notch out studs and rafters when installing water pipes and to use nail plates to protect the pipes from inadvertantly being damaged by nails and screws when sheetrock is installed on studs and rafters.I will only bore holes in studs and rafters to route electric wiring and of course to route drain pipes.As for copper pipe not being flexible I now use copper pipe press tools which make installing copper pipe faster and safer than soldering the copper pipe.At first I was highly skeptical about copper pipe press tools but after having used copper pipe press tools I am amazed at how easy and safe it is to install copper pipe using press fittings.God bless you and yours,thanks for the video.
Very informative and a very good analysis of the pros and cons of each. Concise and enjoyable.
Makes total sense. I really wanted to install Pex in my shop, but I have exposed walls and live in the country so that would be a recipe for disaster.
Bro you got great content! Very professional and it's a huge help. I'm new to all of this and I found all this easy to understand. Bloody good job mate 👊❤️🙌
🤗🤗🤗
My house was built in 1987 and the builder used copper. However, I just had one of our bathrooms renovated to a walk-in ceramic tile shower and I had the installer use PEX instead for the hot and cold shower valve. It just made sense for all of the reasons you detailed; especially ease of installation and cost.
Congratulations, this channel is the best I've seen to learn plumbing. I work in building maintenance and it is very useful in what I have seen here. The emails received with tips is great too. Thank you and have a lot to do with it!
🤘🤘🤘
As a plumber i prefer pex as a home owner i say copper because of the strength
Correct. Plumbers want to SLAM the job together and get to the next one. Homeowner wants durability and longevity where copper reigns king.
very few of the plumbers i work with, hundreds, would rather use PEX. Plumbers hate coming back to the site to repair damaged pex pipes they just installed, done by pest.
For example, there can be a house that never had a problem with pest chewing on their pipes for 70 years, but as soon as they install pex in the crawl space, it happens several times within the same year. a year later, half of the pex installed, ends up being replaced by copper pipes and the problems stop happening. Working at a plumbing store, I hear all the problems plumbers are working with and see massive damage done to pex by pest.
We won't be calling you unless you disclose that at the time of estimating a job. I get it that homeowners are cheap and pex will make them happy but they should have a choice vs. "i use pex".
I have always found copper to be more reliable and durable, but without a doubt the current PEX installations are much simpler and so you say just as durable. Great work of yours and thank you very much.
Many thanks! Don't forget to smash the like button and share if you can, have a great day!
Lately I've been using Pex for long runs, but convert to copper when coming out of the walls or going into fixtures. Makes the finish look nice and clean. Plus where I live, our water is extremely acidic.
I had to replace the type M copper in the house I bought even though the house was built in 2005. I went with Pex for the most parts, but on any exterior pipes I had to run, I used type L copper. Type L holds up a lot better against the acid rain.
Excellent videos - Thanks so much!
I used copper in my whole house. I was VERY careful de-burring the cut copper pipes. I am pretty sure that I did not overfill any connections with too much solder. Copper is harder to install and more expensive, but I prefer it in my house as long as I know that it was installed well.
Great point!
I have a plumbing issue I called a friend about & he mentioned PEX. This was just days ago. I'd never heard of PEX & I get this vid. in my e-mail just in time to learn. Awesome!!!
Thanks for sharing, and don't forget to smash the like button, have a great evenning @kicknsystm ;)
I had a shower installed. Plumber used pex. Wife is not happy with flow rate. I just hope the stuff lasts because I will sure be mad if it starts leaking. Wife got used to the flow rate and so I guess a benefit is less water usage.
I plumbed my cottage, installed a few water heaters in my day. I thought I knew a little bit about plumbing.
Turns out, I know nothing. lol
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks man!!
Great video once again.. here to learn and understand..you do great job sir👍
🙏🙏🙏
I like copper because my dad taught me how to work with it, also I think it’s fun, I only do work for myself and friends and family. I went to the flea-market and a guy was selling buckets of copper fittings, my dad bought them and I sorted them out and I still have them 30 years later. I wouldn’t mind using Pex if I was doing a whole house.
A comment from a plumber friend of mine:
"A lot of good points were made. I would question his lifespan for both being 50 years I have removed copper that was over 50 years old and would have lasted another 50. The pex system he was using had a metal ring that was compressed keeping the pex tigh around the fitting, over time the metal looses its strength I won’t even talk about degradation because of water etc.. Your pex system will last much longer than fifty years because you have a plastic ring that holds the pex in place."
The pex system he installed for me was using Uponor tubing with plastic rings. Personally, I would only use Pex for heating and copper for drinking water because of copper's antimicrobial properties and plastic potentially leaching into the water.
You're using anecdotal evidence. I'm not saying he's wrong, but you shouldn't base your opinion on what a single or several plumbers have said. Don't even rely on opinions on websites published by plumbers. They likely have biases and are pushing a narrative. You should try to base your opinions on research and statistics.
@@absoluteloyalty9033 I’m not using anecdotal evidence for anything. Just sharing an expert opinion. Don’t sweat it. 😉👍
@@ed1pk When you rely on one of your experiences, that's considered anecdotal. It doesn't matter if it's from a plumber; it's one data point. Furthermore, 90% of plumbers are clueless. Many of them are high school dropouts. Most of them couldn't make college.
@@absoluteloyalty9033 I’m not relying on anything. I’m sharing the lifetime experience of an expert plumber. Not one anecdote. You’re the one easily dismissing it. Give merit on the plausibility and veracity of the explanation given. Don’t just push your own narrative based on your “statistics” and personal dismissive bias against most plumbers. That’s what these comments are for. Sharing personal opinions and experiences. Not formal verified stats and figures. 😂
@@ed1pk You are not relying on anything? You are relying on the plumber's advice as well as sharing his opinion. And, his advice might be the result of a lifetime of experience but it's still anecdotal. It's still one data point that's based upon one person.
Second, a lot of contractors will try to validate their opinion but prefacing it that they have 30 years of experience. I actually work in the industry. If they are a bad plumber after 10 years, they are a bad plumber after 40 years.
Finally, I know this may seem snotty but it's just the blunt truth. Most contractors in construction or other similar industries do not have a college education. College doesn't make you smart but getting into college does represent due diligence. It's no different than police officers. Most are simply not smart enough to get into college. As a result, you should be wary of their opinions.
Please try to think more before you make an opinion. I'm not saying you're ultimate conclusion is incorrect (I actually agree with it so I'm not pushing a "narrative") but your method is wrong. Please do not use the opinion of one plumber as the basis of your own opinion. And, especially do not disseminate it as it leads to misinformation.
Excellent explanation ! Thanks !
You are most welcome Ralph!!!
3 months ago, I was deciding between copper and PEX to get water from a copper pipe to my watering valve. After thinking thru, I decided to use a heavy duty 50 feet water hose connected to the valve at the copper pipe end, then other end of the hose connect to the PVC pipe (using a cheap PVC adapter) that feeds water for the automatic valves.
This entire area has shade all year round including the valves (3 of them), so UV is not an issue. My reasoning is: if the water hose breaks as it ages, I can simply replace it with a new one for less than 20$. The valve at the copper end is the local water shutoff for this area, I do not need to shut off water for the entire house.
There are two other places where I installed automatic valves and these use copper pipes as they are very close to existing copper water pipes.
Hello ! For my home i wanted to use cooper because i believe it will last much longer ! I watched several tutorial and yours are really clear and gelpfull😎 Thanks to your tips i could succeed to realize all the pipes of the first floor of my house!! 58 weldings so far! 🙏
Nice, good job!!
WOW, that shot of the copper vs pex ID dimensions was huge. No wonder I see a water loss with a new pex 1/2" line.
ya this problem has been solved with Uponor “pex” supply products ..
@@brandonmunsin9310 So are they 1/2" ID now?
@@rickjames6948 Still not as good as copper but a major improvement.
All you have to do is go up one size for pex B and your water restriction problem is solved. Pex B is safest for potable water. Pex A less potable because it has more chemicals.
@@christopherbehrens7996 Go up one size??? So you admit, there is a big restriction in Pex, size vs size, compared to copper? Thought so. All this talk about pex out flowing copper LOL LOL. Just wait till you hit the first pex 90 degree fitting. They choke down to 1/4".
I finished my basement and added a utility sink in the laundry room and a full bathroom. I used pex with a shutoff valve coming from the main copper pipe..................so so so easy and cheap. I was shocked at how quickly I did the plumbing and how little I spent. I have flood alarms in my basement. I honestly believe the reliability issues the old timers focus on are greatly exaggerated, but if anything happens, all I have to do is shut off the supply to my basement. I really believe that pex is way better than copper for projects like this.
Such an awesome video really well explained 👏🏻👏🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻😌😌
:))))))))))
Nice video.pleased to learn from you.keep going master👍👍👍
Most welcome!!!
An old copper installation is repaired and expanded again with copper.
Plastic tubes will be used for a completely new installation.
For copper there are solutions without soldering.
Plug in and seal with built-in seals. Even better pressing, seals are also installed here.
Using this method, the heating in the Pentagon was renewed.
Extra plumbers were flown in from Germany.
The downside is the price of copper.
Actually, you can repair an existing copper system with PEX. I have done it.
For a normal residence outside the Chicago area (outside of Chicago), I prefer copper. Chicago still does galvanized pipe and cast iron wastes. I currently live in Lake County and copper and PVC wastes are code. Pex is preferred for a summer place. Thanks....Jim
Extremely well researched.
PEX can be relatively quickly destroyed in sunlight or with fluorescent / UV lighting
PEX will typically expand and not rupture with freezing.
If you use home run for hot water, you can use 3/8 pipe for runs up to 70F, giving you hot water faster with less water and time wasted.
With homerun, you can run the pipe right up to the fixture without a stop.
For smaller pipe sizes, each elbow is often equal to an extra 5F of pipe in terms of flow reduction.
PEX-A does not have the chemical used for cross linking that are used in PEX-B and PEX-C
Kinks in PEX-A can be removed with a hot air gun. With PEX-B, C, & D, you have to cut the section out and replace.
Osman Vincent Plus the diameter of PEX-A I think it’s comparable to copper...? But a lot of people that I know, don’t wanna pay the money for PEX-A
@@IppiopaidFEEDBACK its ok. They can call back after their copper/pvc lines burst in the cold 😆
That is what I notice about Pex Low pressure at the Shower Valves. I like a strong water Stream nothing like a 3/4 copper Run reducing down to half.
I've used both and both are good depending on the application. I really like Pex though
Very informative video thanks.
I find Pex so much quicker to instal and if there are long runs Pex works out a lot cheaper.
I love two youtube channels that are informative, and speaking from true experience.
When I hear Jeff's Canadian accent, I know it's Renovison.
And when I hear the long drawn out "...annnnnnnd.....", I know it's Got2Learn.
😅😅😅
My home has mostly 1/2" CPVC. 1979 install. It's reached it's end of life. I am switching to 3/4 pex interior and 1" exterior for the flow and reasons you mentioned. I rarely drink my water without it going through a filter so no bother there. I am 2" serviced off a 12" main very close so I ALWAYS have good pressure and flow. I love copper and did my shop air with it. But in a remodel, PEX all the way using mostly crimp fittings. Sharkbite if it's in a bad spot. Will also repipe my shop with PEX due to temps when that day arrives.
All good information, thanks Brian!
@@Got2Learn I was doing a repair on a house that had 1/2" CPVC that was propobably 25 years old. When I cut into the line to splice into, it just cracked and split. I had to cut back several more inches on both sides of where I wanted to get a solid piece of pipe to work with. I would never use CPVC unless it was a patch to repair.
That's the thing with CPVC, it becomes super brittle like glass, not a good thing :(
Always PEX for us! I've heard old plumbers say nothing is as secure as a good solder joint. Could be, but I've repaired solder joints that looked A1 in the outside, until we went to repair and it popped apart in our hands. Also, some areas have acidic well water which eats copper.
Sometimes you never really know until you cut the fitting apart and look to see how the tin spread in the fitting. Im currently practicing with it. Looks good on the outside but bad on the inside.
Also soldering is so time consuming compared to installing pex
While I am still an aspiring plumber, I see the pros and cons of both.
I'd still like to learn how to sweat and fit pipes, while also having the ease of use of PEX.
I just recently gave in and started using pex to replace a frozen cracked copper pipe. Always said that i would never use anything but copper but with the current prices it's almost crazy not to try other options. Im still a fan of sweating copper but am starting to like pex equally for many reasons.
Nice comparison, but there were few aspects not covered in this video.
First, and probably most important is that "PEX" is just a group naming convention for similar pipes, made from polyethylene - like with copper, but wider. You have different grades of copper, differing in thickness and hardness, some are better for heating, some for gas. Similar is for PEX pipes. For example, typical PEX pipe is permeable for gasses and other stuff. While in home environment it isn't a big issue for a potable water, it makes it unfit for heating. Not only it'll let gasses in to your installation leading to air traps, it'll sag after heating, needing denser mounting points. There is, however, a solution known as PEX-Al-PEX or "AluPEX". What is so special about it, it has an aluminium inner core between PE layers. That makes it impermeable for gasses and contaminants. For heating, especially for higher temperatures, is PE-RT coating. This is polyethylene with higher temperature resistance, better suited for constant heat.
What wasn't mentioned in the video, is very low surface tension of polyethylene. That's what make glueing PE so much pain in the back, and what is also its strong point. Also, polyethylene pipes have very smooth surfaces, contrary to metal ones, and we're talking microscopic scale. That makes them suitable for piping in areas with high water hardness, as limescale have very hard time sticking to it. Even if it will, it is also easy to remove.
Moreover, polyethylene is non reactive material, so it won't react with water and anything solved in it. That is superb for areas with low water hardness, as that water is very aggressive on metal piping. Copper pipes will degrade rather quickly in such environment, especially if Ph tends to go under 7. Not only that, but polyethylene won't dissolve into water, so no additional metals or other additives from piping in your potable water.
Last, but not least, polyethylene is electrically non conductive, so, especially if pipe is buried in ground, no problems with stray currents or electrochemical corrosion - a big deal with underground installations. It'll also prevent earth loops and other electrical problems with indoor installations.
But copper have advantages, too. Aforementioned problems with rodents is one. Other is that in lots of places fire code prohibits piping made from flammable materials for use with internal hydrant systems.
I’m a real estate agent in Las Vegas. I do multiple transactions, schedule repairs, inspections. I also sell a of homes from 1950 built homes to new construction and sometimes I renovate homes (which i only use licensed contractors). Your channel has answered a lot of my questions and I can’t thank you enough!
Thank you sooo much Clark, have a great day sir!!
Great Vid!! took a 1924 house and gutted piping!! redid the whole house to every fixture added some fixtures with valves on hot and cold of every fixture !! Kickass system!! going to be installing a dedicated hot water return line to hot water heater with smart plug setup!!
😉😉😉
Great, but what option did you use for piping?
PEX and copper :)
@@histubeness sorry all PEX A
I live in AK so freezing is a constant concern. Pex is the only way to go up here. Cost, being able to go from manifold to fixture without fittings and freeze protection make this a no brainer for me. I do love the way my copper fitted mechanical room looks though... Cheers!
PEX is better for the plumbers, Copper is better for the homeowners.
The only reason why PEX was created was to lower the cost to the industry. And that is the only reason why it is used by plumbers. Cheaper to buy, faster to install. Less skill required.
Other than stub outs I see no reason for copper.
At least here in Germany PE-X is the much better choice for the home owner, the insurance company and the installer. Due to the water quality here in our region cooper pipes tend to fail. I think 9 of 10 water leaks occurre in piping systems made of copper. Pinhole corrosion is the reason for this.
@@stardust231 Hi Jake,
The water quality is quite good in Germany. But we have some areas with slightly acidic water. There copper or Steel isn't a good idea. Stainless steel, PEX or multilayer pipes should bei used there.
A increasing problem are here plastic pipes of low quality 😬
There is a push to remove the "skill" from skilled trades. Soon there will be no more tradesmen, only low hourly paid installers.
You said a lot with few words. 👍👍
If only TrAmp was that way.
Pex is great for certain situations. I like the diagram of the fittings showing how pex is more restrictive. I have heard that pex will make your water taste funny but I don’t know if that’s true or not. I’ll stick with type L copper. Awesome video.
Thanks for sharing! Yes, PEX will give the water a bit of a plastic taste to it, but it's nothing to be bothered by IMO. If you are really strict on the taste of the wtaer coming in, you just need to install a 3 stage filter and it'll taste like mountain water ;)
I like plastic as well for Reno's but try wirsbo uponor piping. I believe it has a bigger inside diameter and is better to work with especially in tight areas.
Copper piping for on hot water tanks, hose bibs and showers though for the solidness of it.
your videos are sooo good i rewatch them all the time and i am not a plumber just a framer
Thank you so much Thor Eric, I really appreciate that, means a lot man...
At work (irrigation) we use both pex pipe for the main water line and copper on the piping for the backflow preventer
WOW, that is overkill for an irrigation system. Your systems will last forever. All I see around here is thin wall PVC irrigation pipe. Guess it works okay.
I am just a home owner and I live in rural area. Mice are an issue so that rules out PEX. I am glad I watched your video as I have some repairs to do and was thinking of using PEX but the mice issue is a no brainer for me. I have dealt with the mice but living in the forest its a never ending war with mice. I cant take a chance to save a few bucks.
Mice aren't going to eat your pec
well in this case ! I would use both if i want to plumb my home , and it would be as follow:
Pex for service line to Main shut off valve and PRV valve , to Water softener or filtration system , to water heater
Pex branches to garden bib valves , toilets lines .
from water heater i would get Copper for my kitchen sink , shower and bath and bathroom sink
also the cold water lines would convert from Pex branching to copper for my kitchen and bathroom
that would keep my drinking water and bathe and wash clean for my body and consumption while toilets and garden bibs can be branched from main service line .
but that's me
Knew a beautiful girl and installed PEX So she called me from time to time to repair the leaks Now is my wife
However I've installed copper at her mother's house with good results You see
Leaks with PEX?
Lol 😂
You must love pex then.
@@jpp9876 you missed the joke. He's saying pex is bad and he had to keep coming back to repair it.
Thats the proper way to lay pipe.
For repairs, I just match what is already there. If I come across CPVC, I use CPVC even though it is my least favorite system because it gets brittle as it ages. Doesn't really matter because even it lasts much longer than my guarantee. My favorite system is copper L, soldered. ProPress is great for repairing copper with water in it or a fire hazard or to avoid a hot-work permit, but solder hands-down is the best. ProPress is just a fancy crimped on SharkBite. One trick I do sometimes is solder on Copper to Pex barbs and do a repair in pex particularly for freeze-ups or when I want to get off a job-site FAST!
Im practicing soldering right now. It's just crazy because it looks good on the outside. But when I double check my work by splitting the fitting. I see gaps I missed. Do you think this is the case for alot of people when they are soldering joints?
Thanks for the video! I'm replacing the old water line with either copper or Pex. Since the crawlspace's entrance is from outside and we won't live in the property, I really worry about the rat may eat Pex line and cause flood. Though the copper is more expensive, I don't want to worry about the mice problem everyday. After watching your video, I'm more certain to go with copper.
🙏🙏
I love Copper, Yorkshire fittings, and my hot solder clamp too.
In thought to put in 3x the 4.5"x20" filter housings in for a Southwestern USA climate (hot summer) house. I thought I would need a plumber or start learning to build a rectangular bypass fixture to add to the garage's exposed water line so that I can add the filters and shut-off valves when changing filters. Now seeing PEX as an easier option, does the reduced flow make it not useable for such a task? My input in the garage is a copper pipe coming up out of the wall, with 2 ft going up and back down with an inch of horizontal separation.
In my opinion pex A is the way to go no fliw restriction more flexible and is always trying to go back to original size the expansion system is Phenomenal now that being said I am a prefab worker and all I use is copper bolth sweat and press love how to do it it makes it more like a professional install and looks amazing
When I did the math of pex vs copper when I removed all the old galvanized pipes in the house I went with copper. The fittings on pex plus having to buy the crimper drove the cost too high for my liking compared to copper. I 100% agree on your points though that pex is way easier to move around and install.
towmantowman the amount of solder and flux and butane needed to do a whole house negates the price of a pex tool.. however crimp rings are a price too.. I wouldnt worry about the initial investment of the pex tool, it will be usedull for any future repairs and can be resold
I like & have used copper since 1973, I had galvanized & lead pipe before. Pex to me would be perfect for summer places or basic, cheaper houses. However, the rodent problem would be a challenge. I think time will tell, and the industry still needs to come up with a better alternative. Thanks...Jim
In argentina we use a thermofusion systems and it’s installation is kinda similar to copper because of the elbows and fittings, but much simplier and fast to install because to join two ends you have to heat up both openings with a specialized handheld and portable heater for that propuse, this also prevents leaks. Also it’s much sturdier than PEX because it has more inner thickness. The plastics technic name is Polypropylene Type 3 (PPCR), but we know it by “Thermofusion Aqua System”. Greetings
🙏👍
Hey I redid my house with Viega Pex . I like Pex for ease of install and repair. Upnor I believe has larger diameter connections and fittings which is real nice providing better flow and volume. Nice video
Very knowledgeable bro got2learn teaching apprentices that teach foreman new tricks ;) copper is one of the world's best conductors
You are most welcome! 😊
Electrician, here. So, strong bias toward copper. I love it.
That said, my husband and I redid our entire fresh water plumbing in the mid-90s in PEX. Not one failure, although we have had two unfortunate freeze-ups which both caused our neighbor's homes (with copper piping) to burst.
That, alone, settles the question for those of us in colder climates.
In my own home, I did a mix of the two. I use PEX A (expansion) for the runs to each room, but copper for the incoming water line, distribution manifold, water heater connection, as well as the last bit to the service shutoffs to the fixtures.
Type K copper as incoming waterline is required by code. No choice here.
I've actually seen guys say they recommend the plastic fittings because they don't corrode like the brass ones do
It's true!
ve2zzz not on a well in Minnesota. Incoming line is plastic, then transitions to galvanized for the pressure switch and tank. Dielectric coupling to copper, but I could have done PeX.
The sizing of the pipe would only be a concern if you are limited on space or if upsizing the pipe cost more than copper for the same size. I was going to do 3/4 pex in my house and would have probably been just fine doing it but I stepped it up to 1" and might only cost me 15% more but was just as easy to put in.
One thing not mentioned is that PEX can freeze many times without bursting, unlike copper. Sure, metal fittings will burst but if fittings are installed in accessible areas (all home runs), tearing into walls for repair is not needed.
he did mention that
I watched a video where they froze a pex pipe full of water. the fittings held.
@@mattalford3932 That was lucky. I needed to replace some brass fittings on an outdoor PEX sink line when it froze.
@@bobbray9666 shark bite fittings can slide off copper pipe too. I didn't know that when I used them like that. But they were in a place I could easily access
I have a 1958 single-level brick ranch home, no basement, with the master bath, hallway bath, and kitchen having access to the same piping. So for me, rats will never be a problem. My pipes were replaced in 2020 and the water tastes better and I have noticed that there is less grime in the bathtub. With the old pipes, I had to clean my master bathtub every month, but with the new pex pipes, I haven't cleaned my tub since the week of Thanksgiving last fall. I am surprised that the incoming water is so much cleaner than with the old pipes. There is no grime in the tub at all nor on me.
Great Video! Thank you! So what would you suggest as a better option for floor heating in an apartment?
Depends if you are only heating one room it's best you go electric, cheers man!
PEX is what I use on a daily basis but I think one thing that you forgot to mention
Is if you're plumbing is exposed to copper looks better 💁
100% right. I installed an outdoor shower a couple of months ago and ran copper where it came out of the wall with brass valves and shined them all up, but on the inside of the wall, it was pex all the way.
@@Nonybusinessxxxxxx PEX and other types plastic pipes are accepted and normal types of lines for potable water here in the US. Insurance companies will cover damage so long as their rules are met. That includes rodents chewing on pipes. I've never run into it once even as PEX has become the default in my area. I've repaired countless pinholes in copper, but not a single rodent chewed pipe.
The point about chemicals leaching into water flowing through PEX is the most legitimate. You're exaggerating a little, but it's at least a real issue. I've been reading articles and studies about that subject since at least 2014. Every study says that the water is completely safe.
Speaking of safe to drink, have you ever looked at the inside of a galvanized pipe that's been used for a few decades?
@@Odin029
PEX sucks. Maybe it's just me but I have a hard time getting a good solder joint.
@@tinman1955 Practice practice practice. You'll get it down one day.
@@tinman1955 Get a crimp tool for copper and retire your torch there bub. Also soldering is pretty easy. Just need to get better at it, and it is all about controlling your heat. When you have your torch on the fitting to heat it up, constantly use your solder wire to check the temp to see if it is hot enough. You get it all too hot and it fucks it up.
Love all your videos and have learned a lot. In fact you taught me how to solder copper pipes. However I do believe you should have mentioned some things with regards to expansion pex (PEX-A) in this video. First, They have full port fittings with expansion pex. Second The PSI rating is dependent on temperature.
This is also working pressure and not burst pressure, which according to Uponor's website is: a minimum hydrostatic burst pressure for PEX pipe at 73.4°F (23°C) is 480 psi for ½" pipe and 475 psi for ¾" pipe and larger.
Anyways just thought I would put this out there for anyone looking at the comments. Thanks for all the great lessons, look forward to more videos in the future!
Great, constructive comment, love those, thank you so much!!
I've learnt in 10 of your vids more than I had in the last 10 years by myself!!! Superb job, once again thanks a lot for sharing!!!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Wow, thanks, really appreciate it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also check out PE-RT piping and expansionable Zurn Pex B piping.
PE-RT piping is recyclable, and allegedly stands up to chlorine/chloramine.
The 90 elbows on copper look clean
When I want to finish job qiuck I use pex but when I have time still perfer copper, and in europe don't need blow torch promission .,.
I remember back in the 80s a news show highlighting problems with plastic piping. It put a lot of plumbing contractors out of business. Polybutylene. I just came across a video from this old house on it. 10 million houses in the US had it installed. This is the reason I have much more trust in copper.
🙂🤟
you mean kitec water pipe which was widely used from 95 to 2007.
Great vid, thanks. Beginner plumber enthusiast here. Can you mix the two and use PEX to repair copper?
Sure!
I love the ease of pex, but I have seen copper pipes that were over 100 years old and still doing fine, plus I love putting things together with fire.
My copper pipes only lasted 33 years. I live in a place that gets very cold and also very hot. Maybe the temperature fluctuations comprimised the life or maybe poor installation. But I pretty much lean toward pex B, I recently had a complete house repipe with pex. We'll see in 30 years if it still holds up without a leak, lol.
@@christopherbehrens7996 You'd better insulate all the pex if it's in the attic or exterior wall. We just had some -29F temps a few weeks ago. Hope this house is in Florida. Even south Texas got slammed with Arctic air.
I like PEX, but in a rental property I had problem with rats. They chewed on piece of pex going to the dishwasher 3 times in less than six months. On the positive side we would not find the rodent problem until they probably chewed through wiring.
I like both, one thing is copper is a better conductor of heat , not sure if it would really make a difference, I have my pipes covered as far as I can see them
The problem I have found with PEX is the brass fittings. I changed around a PEX plumbing job which gave me the opportunity to look at a PEX elbow fitting. It was full of scale reducing the diameter effectively by a 1/3. This installation was only about 3 years old. This was an installation done at North Myrtle Beach where the water is not the best. The actual Pex piping was fine but, for some reason the scale stuck to the brass. I don't know if that would happen to copper.
Honestly i usually run copper in New installs and do pex on repairs usually
In Europe (I'm myself from Belgium), we use a variant of PEX, called ALPEX (or ALU-PEX), which is a PEX pipe with a thin aluminium coat. It's stronger and gives full impermeability to the pipe.
Interesting, thank you!
We have lived in our home for 35 years. Noticing pinholes I replaced my copper finding a cheap grade that I was replaced with L grade pipe. After watching your videos I easily replaced it and determined it was an excess of flux that damaged the old copper pipe. Thanks, G2L I like copper.
What state? When I worked in specialty insurance over a decade ago (customer could add on insurance and include in their utility bill), there were a rash of copper getting pinhole leaks due to the water content in Florida. I think Pennsylvania too. But this affected entire water districts, so if it was only you, could have been the install, if your entire neighborhood is getting leaks, could be the water. I usually badmouth insurance companies, but we were quick to pay for a recomplete replumb instead of repairing pinhole leaks in these water districts.
Just an FYI…
You don’t want to mix pex products. In order for the warranty to stay in effect you have to use the same brand pex pipe and fittings. If you don’t you will reduce the warranty from a 25 year warranty down to a 5 or 1 year warranty. Manufacturers test their products with their fittings and that is what they will warranty.
It has to be the same type and rating, and meet the same specs. Same brand is neither required, nor is it legal for them to require that. (Just like car manufacturers can't void your warranty for using an aftermarket oil filter or other parts)
Properly installed copper pipe will last one hundred years easily.
Most private wells have acidic water that will make copper start failing after about 25 years but
properly treated water from a municipal system will make copper last almost forever.
That depends on water conditions. In my area on well water your lucky to get 20 years out of copper.
I am been using pex for years, I am a pipefitter and also a plumber for 42 years. I use pex because it is cheaper and easier to use . Copper and pex can freeze but pex will not break and will go back down to it size , but if copper freezes it doesn’t. Also pex can have 200 psi and 200 degrees not 120 psi and 150 degrees
PEX-a pipe typically meets the following temperature and pressure ratings:
200 degrees F at 80 psi
180 degrees F at 100 psi
73.4 degrees F at 160 psi
I went to the Pipe Trades Training Center for 10 years to learn what I know in industrial/commercial applications. One of my teachers sat on the board for the Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC) that regulates plumbing fixtures and materials, applications, etc. He told me about the industry pushing for pex, but the board kept them at bay, not allowing this material into the UPC. The reason? Leaks. That's the long and the short of it.
My neighbors had a second house built on their property and they used pex. When I had a second house built on my property, I told the contractor that he must do it in copper only. It is my preference based on years of experience. Pex just seems too flimsy. Copper handles pressures much better. The fact that they are rated on longevity, as equal, surprises the heck out of me. To each their own, I guess. Suffice it to say, I would never have pex in my house.
Hi,
Thanks for sharing. I'm wondering if the Pex pipe leaches chemicals that people would get on and into their bodies? Do you know that?
Uponor (Wirsbo) fittings have a larger ID then the type of PEX shown in this video. Granted, you need to used their pipe to have the correct firmest, but it’s still cheaper than copper. The connections leak far less as well. That being said, the ID is still slightly smaller than copper. It’s great to have options. 👍🏼
All good information. I am currently working on a complete guide on Uponor and how it works and I talk about that, stay tuned ;))))
@@Got2Learn The folks at Upanor have a great tour you should take.
It's one of my next videos :)
Thanks for all the great info !!
We live in an area with a lot of mice so I will
Stick with copper for now ..
Chuck
;( good choice!
yea i got mice and rats under my house and around my house so i am definitely worried about using pex
I have used PEX "B" crimp for years in plumbing repairs, it is a great time saver, but the crimp style is a problem in tight spaces. I recently purchased a Milwaukee Pro PEX "A" tool and it is a dream. no more tight space problems better connection the first time, happier customers. The only down side to PEX at this point is the fitting cost. three times the price of copper fittings unless you buy the cheaper plastic fittings. The only soldering I have to do is brass to copper pipe connections.
In cold weather states/countries PEX is ideal.
ProPEX is the best IMO. Why are you getting the brass fittings? Get the plastic ones they are way cheaper and do the job just fine, i've use thousands of these in commercial high rise buildings.
@@Got2Learn I do use the plastic fittings, but only brass can be soldered to copper in repairs. Make a plastic fitting that attachs to copper, I'll buy it.
Hehehe, true! ;)
With pex, does the reduction in friction loss offset the flow restriction by the fittings?
My buddy had damage in his house with a bunch of buried copper. He replaced his system with pex in the attic rather than digging. Saved him a TON of cash.
For sure :)
Could also run soft copper through the attic, not to be that guy but yeah
He'd better INSULATE that pex in the attic. We just had some -29F temps a few weeks ago. Hope this house is in Florida. Even south Texas got slammed with Arctic air.
I am from Greece and although I am not a plumber, I would like to have my plumbing and heating made with PEX(we call it "tuborama" in Greece and we use different joints made of brass, which can be easily screwed/unscrewed on it). You can' t repair an old house with the ease of plastic tubing. Actually, I prefer any repairs to be made using special brass joints upon the copper pipes, in order to fit PEX, but you know what I mean. If I could replace all of my pipes with PEX even now, I would gladly do it!
Actually, I meant "You can' t repair an old house WITHOUT the ease of plastic tubing", but I guess that you already have figured it out... ;-)
for the rodent problem, what about using expandable braided sleeves over the PEX pipe. it'll add a little bit of cost onto your project but it might save in thousands of $ in repairs. figured it's used to protect electrical wire, could do the same for PEX. thoughts?
Great video, I have always like copper but that is what was available at the time when I learned how to plumb it. Pex in the late nineties was garbage and unreliable and burst in homes including mine in 2007. I wasn't a fan of pex. The recent modernization of pex has grown on me to the point I would choose over copper for the convenience and price. I am still learning pex, but finding the differences of joining different pex products would be a great video. It would be nice to see how to connect different pex connections by the understanding of them. Thank you looking forward to another video. I will hit the bell and subscribe.
Awesome thank you for the sub and like :)
You don’t want to mix pex products. In order for the warranty to stay in effect you have to use the same brand pex pipe and fittings. If you don’t you will reduce the warranty from a 25 year warranty down to a 5 or 1 year warranty. Manufacturers test their products with their fittings and that is what they will warranty.
I was writing on Pex A and B connections. A is better then B, but I have problems trying to seal the joints on A when installing it. I would like to see content on this. Thank you for responding. Great channel.
In east Europe we use mainly PPR pipes .PEX and copper is also used in western Europe.
It,s very expansive in Russia,cooper and PEX.We get PPR and metal-plastic pipes)
PPR in hot and cold water, pex press for heating. Pex fittings are very expensive
I've seen pex lines freeze and break. They were both 3/4". It was a 3 season cottage that wasn't properly shut down.
Yeah, PEX has its limits too, pretty sure copper would of busted wayyyy before.
It depends on use case, but today, I think PEX is a good alternative and as you said cost 💰 is always a factor.
Hi and thanks for sharing your knowledge, IMO work with copper has safety hazard and PEX don't specially in confined spaces, I prefer PEX all the way
Yup, same reasons as you, I prefer PEX ;)