Why I Left Lordship Salvation (PART ONE) | Theocast
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Pastor Jon Moffitt explains his journey into Lordship Salvation and how he left this theological understanding after diving deeper into the Reformed Faith. He explains some of the theological pitfalls Lordship falls into and how the reformed confessions share scriptural insight into our understanding of how God regenerates sinners. Jon is a graduate of the Master's seminary and now Pastors Grace Reformed Church in Spring Hill, TN (gracereformed.org)
A Critique of Lordship Salvation (Part 1) • A Critique of Lordship...
A Critique of Lordship Salvation (Part 2) • A Critique of Lordship...
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#lordship #lordshipsalvation #reformedtheology
Lordship Salvation made me a terrible person. Grace Salvation made me graceful to others!
@@KimFuller-fh5bw loving others circumstantial without obedience to the Lord.
@@kukpaulchoiWhat!!?? There is alot of judgment in your statement without knowing the individual. I think you should explain yourself better.
When Christ gave the rich young ruler the “law” to obey, it was because he asked what he could “do” to gain salvation. He must obey the Law perfectly, and continually. Which of course no man can do, which is why we need a Savior.
Totally , he said good master , Jesus respond: why you call me good there is no good but one, and that is God ,,,,,, that’s the tip.
Your theology is flawed, Jesus does not tell us to do anything he does not also give us the power to do. Jesus washed the feet of the disciples to show his power to sanctify, but he expects us to keep his Commandments. If you do not keep his Commandments, you do not love him. (John 14:21)
@@sbhgamen1671
No, that was Jesus responding to a man who did not know he was the Messiah. God does not want mindless acknowledgement.
Messiah _is_ indeed good (since Messiah is God) and that proves the fallacy of your comment.
No, sorry. That isn't the reason. He says plainly after the rich young ruler left that its hard for a rich man to enter heaven. He even said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Jesus wasn't showing the man how the law is impossible to keep. Jesus was literally showing him the way of salvation. He told Him to follow Him. Luke 6:46 explains very well that Jesus expects his followers to obey His commands
@Adam H If you hate submission to Jesus, then that only shows you are NOT a child of God.
1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
When God convicted me of my sin and convinced be that I was a lost church member, it broke my heart. I didn't think God would or could love and forgive a hypocrite sinner like me. When I truly understood that God really did love me, according to the Bible, I called on Him. I Believed God. I fell in love with Him. He became my Lord and Saviour.
He's always been your Lord. He becomes your Savior when you put your trust in Him.
I used to attend a church and... there was a group of women there who started the whole self-inspection thing. I left shortly after that - although I didn't completely understand it, i knew looking INSIDE isn't looking at HIM. And in MY opinion, they were trying to take the place of the Holy Spirit.
I think I did this, believing I was being Biblical. Everything was turned inward to see if we were really obeying Christ, down to the minutiae. Not so much what Christ did for us. One woman quit the Bible study. She said it was too hard. It was a verse by verse study of Mark, but the questions I was given to ask were designed to be guilt producing. I agree-this was taking the place of the Holy Spirit. It had the effect of robbing some people of their assurance.
Without some introspection, ie a review of our own heart, how do we determine if we are Matt 7:21 believers or those on the narrow path? People fool themselves all the time. In fact, it was a little introspection that made me realize I was not walking in true faith. Yes, the Holy Spirit revealed it to me, but it was my prayer for that revelation that led Him to answer me with the truth. 2 Cor 13:5 Paul tells us to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
@@craigbassett7146 SOME introspection, yes. But the women in my former church seemed obsessed with sin sin sin. They were looking to SIN instead of looking to GOD.
MacArthur has so much to answer for. Preaching lordship salvation and suffering for the Lord while enjoying three mansions with swimming pools and tennis courts.
That's not even true
Macarthur´s eschatology will lead many to take the mark of the beast, to worship his image and the number of his name. Which Macarthur says you can do and still be "saved".
The "lord" of Calvinism is Lucifer.
@@lespaul382 Yes. And "lordship salvation" is relinquishing your soul to Baal, their god.
@@psalm2764 You familiar with John macarthurs Masters University in Isreal?
What a wonderful explanation of the Gospel!
G race
O vercame
S in
P roviding
E ternal
L ife
I'm thankful for Lordship salvation. It caused me to be become so utterly beaten down and tired of the Christian life that I ditched mainstream fundamentalism and began to actually enjoy the Christian life.
Same !!!
Yes yes of course! "Enjoy the Christian life", just like Jesus did, ehh? Yes sir, Jesus was really enjoying his Christian life, wasn't he? I mean, even the great apostle Paul enjoyed his Christian life so much, HE WAS MURDERED FOR IT!
@@ifeetz7612
Indeed.
“And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.”
- 1 Corinthians 2:3
The joy of the Lord is our strength. That's different than enjoying your Christian life.
Enjoying your Christian life can be interpreted as enjoying your best life now such as Joel Osteen promotes.
The difficulty about writing and about the written word is that it is subject to so many interpretations and misrepresentations.
We don't have the immediacy of Christ's presence to answer our questions and to clarify his meaning.
With all writing,--even as with these comments, is we lack the person's tone of voice, their inflections, and even facial expressions to give us more understanding of their words.
But back to enjoying your Christian Life. The apostle Paul and Silas were singing songs of praise (I assume joyfully) while being locked and chained in a dungeon
@@ifeetz7612Sounds like you are going to end up just like the person you are commenting against.
Why didn't you quote the verse where Jesus says, " My yoke is easy and my burden light." Joy is one of the fruits of the Spirit sure seems like you have non but the other guy does.
@@ifeetz7612ever read Phillipians?
“I’m not who I ought to be, but hallelujah, I’m not who i was.” Voddie Baucham
You realise this quote is pro-Lordship Salvation, right?
@@JakeRuzi
"He that does not keep my Commandments does not love me." -- Jesus
Oops.
@@PETERJOHN101 Actually, it’s
‘If you love me, keep my commandments’. But yes, I agree with this 100%.
@@JakeRuzi If there’s been no change you haven’t been regenerated by the Spirit.
@@triggerwarning2982 Yepp, that’s true
I am so grateful that I am no longer following Calvinist preachers. In fact, I should not be following any men at all. I should follow Jesus and his word. ❤ The topic should not be controversial. The Bible is very clear that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works of any kind. Woe to any preacher that complicates Gods free gift. 🎁
I agree with what you said, but if a man is confessionally Calvinist, they won’t be teaching this Lordship stuff
Same here
Lordship Salvation IS heresy though according to the bible. It is works based salvation. It is a different gospel--a God who isn't graceful or faithful, a Jesus who can't save or refuses to save those who would come to Him, a different spirit which produces self-righteousness, hypocrisy, lying, inadequacy, and zero assurance.
Having gone to Masters Seminary, you realize that it is a cult along the lines of Scientology if you are honest with yourself.
The same counterfeit "holy spirits" which are at work in Lordship Salvation are rampant in Reformed congregations--religious pride demons. Nobody would be Reformed if they didn't believe the doctrines of demons instead of the Bible, and they would have assurance because they would be genuinely saved and Spirit-filled--not merely hyperreligious, soulish, carnal, and spiritually dead. If that makes you mad-- It's because I poked your demon in the eye with Truth.
Be free in Jesus' name!
Bible says test yourself, there should be a transformation of your spirit thru the Holy Spirit witch will change you life to overcome sin. We strive to be as holy as we can, persistence to the end. The goal to be like Christ 💯🙏
“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
[5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
You can strive all you like to be “Christ-like” and still end up in hell. The moment you make a “commitment” to be like Christ-like, you are putting yourself under the law, and removing grace.
There is a reason why Jesus says “Come to me, all who are weary and heavy-laden. For I will give you rest. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Salvation is through faith in Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Period. End of story. It is not achieved by “holy living”. That’s what Islam, Orthodox Judaism, and Hinduism teach.
If you read that entire context, you will see that Paul is being sarcastic. They were listening to the false teachers who were telling them that Paul wasn't a legitimate apostle. So, he was telling them that if they were questioning whether he was legit, they should question whether they are legit, because it was his preaching of the Gospel that they believed. Basically, by questioning whether Paul was legit, they were questioning his message! After he tells them to examine their own selves, he tells them that the evidence is that they have Christ living in them. And, if Christ lives in them because they believed the Gospel he preached, then it would stand to reason that they should recognize that Christ was living in Paul also. If you read it in context, Paul's entire point is that anyone who has the Holy Spirit living in them should never have to question whether they are "in the faith." The Bible is clear that the Holy Spirit is the "seal of the promise" of eternal life, and the guarantee of the promise of eternal life. Once sealed, always sealed. The Bible also says that whoever is born of the Spirit is born of incorruptible seed that lasts forever.
Is Christ Lord? What is he Lord over? Colossians 1:16
He is Lord over everything including the believer and especially the believer. This is really a argument over obedience. Obedience is not a condition for salvation but faith and belief is. Obedience is an act to attain peace in the Lord, blessings, and eventually rewards in the Kingdom that is coming. If you are a believer in Christ Jesus your obligation is to forsake the lusts of the flesh. Why? Because Jesus said to be holy as your Father in heaven is holy. Lordship Salvation is a misnomer. It should really say or be Lordship Living.
(Despite my knitpicky critiques) This is a good teaching. I like how he spots the SUBJECTIVISM of L.S.
L.S. isn't DEPENDENCE.
"Why I left Lordship salvation" = telling people that they can be saved without Jesus. "YOU ARE MY FRIENDS IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDS" and "WHY DO YOU CALL ME LORD, BUT DON'T DO WHAT I SAY"? We do not need mere men to tell us what the bible is really saying, we just need to read it!
Jesus said you are his friends if you keep his commands.
So what he is saying is that you will be his friend if you keep his commands. This is separate from him saving you from hell.
He says if you love him, keep his commands.
So what he's saying is, if you love him, you will keep his commands. This is separate from him saving you from hell.
Jesus asked why you call him Lord if you don't do what he says.
So what he's asking is, why do you call him Lord if you aren't going to do what he says? This is separate from him saving you from hell.
@@educational4434 in John chapter 15, Jesus tells us to remain in him more than ten times! He tells us what happens to the branches that don't...."they wither and die, falling off the vine, only TO BE GATHERED AND BURNED IN THE FIRE"! Now, any theology that tells you these individuals were never saved in the first place, is a delusional theology, AND, any theology that suggests they are burned up BUT STILL SAVED, is the shinning epitome of a doctrine that soothes our flesh and makes us feel comfortable in our sins! In John 15, Jesus is irrefutably talking to saved branches grafted into the vine! You simply cannot say that to wither, die, fall off the vine, and be burned up in the fire...is someone who is still saved! Sorry, but God gave us this warning as clear as he could! The absurdity of eternal security is that it looks into the face of a branch(saved believer) in the Vine(Jesus Christ), and says...
Oh it merely withered, but STILL SAVED!
Oh it merely died, but STILL SAVED!
Oh it merely fell off of Christ, but STILL SAVED!
Oh, it merely ended up getting tossed into the fire and burned up, but STILL SAVED! This is not what the text very clearly indicates here, as there is no way to reasonably justify a saved status for a burned heap of ashes! That's just nonsense!
@@ifeetz7612 Are you required to keep all of Jesus's commands?
@@educational4434 You are required to REMAIN IN CHRIST!
@@ifeetz7612 Are you required to keep all of Jesus's commands?
I hold to Lordship salvation in a way that causes me to look inward and examine myself to see if I am in the faith (as we read in 2 Corinthians 13:5-6) yet realizing that any difficulty I may acknowledge in my life, or a sin I recently committed, (AS A CHRSITIAN) being drawn to repentance, I know and acknowledge that I am in Christ, and not my work, but His work , has completed the work the Father sent Him to do. HE IS LORD OF ALL. And I believe this inward look must take place for the believer. It is how we examine ourselves. It isn't merely a burden to ask ourselves these questions, but to asking in a Biblical way, knowing that the answer in Christ and Christ alone. Always. This is for our good, and God's glory. Not sure why you did not define Lordship salvation at the beginning of this video? Not sure where youre getting at with "leaving" LS? Examining ourselves to see if we are in the faith is absolutely necessary, yet without looking tot ourselves, but to look to the Lord of our salvation alone in and while doing so. He alone is the Author and Finisher. He alone is faithful and consistent.
Iv'e been spending some time watching opposite points of view on this topic and It doesn't seem that someone believing in 'Lordship Salvation' would recognize your explanation of it.
I appreciate the explaination of your point of view and I will be watching part 2, but it seems there are points both sides are in agreement on that you don't realize.
Would encourage looking into book by Horton Christ the Lord
Paul is very clear that a sinner must belive that Jesus Christ is LORD, BEFORE they are saved!
" 9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference both of Jew and of Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call on Him. 13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans chapter 10)
"29 Then asking for a light he rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And leading them outside, he said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your household. 32 And they spoke the Word of the Lord to him, and to all who were in his household" (Acts chapter 16)
You CANNOT have Jesus Christ THE SAviour, without Jesus Christ THE LORD!
Jon: Thanks as a "Reformed" Pastor for your honest, biblical and courageous presentaion. You have a tremendous opportinity to speak into the pitfalls of this persuasion that can be way more effective than those that may not be wholly Calvinistic in their soteriology, like myself. You've indentified the major areas of Biblical truth with the spiritual and practical deficiences this error has brought. It's hurting the Church and causing undo division by those that hold this error so rigidly, that if questioned or cautioned, charge that we actually don't believe the Gospel. They are suspicious of every profession and are obsessed with an evangelism to the saved, who they beleive on the main, arent saved. The Scriptures warn us of such inquisitons: Matt 13:24-30 (parable of the wheat and the tares); James 4:11. Are there apostates in the Church? Are there false professions? Certainly there are but I must let God, the all knowing and perfect judge, deal with that which I have no right or authority to judge or know. Jesus warns us that in our persuit of inquisition for authenticity I can end up doing great harm to true believers and even myself as His servant. This will be a great resource to share with my fellow Christians who are caught up in this confussion. Thanks again!!!
Reformed doctrine is just as false as Antinomian "free grace" Neither existed for centuries after the Apostles
why do u still call urself servant we are no longer servants but sons of god there that makes us heirs to god galatians 4:7
pastor to be honest with you the only way to look at anything that has ever happened in this world or universe is to look at it through Gods eyes not mans. Gods eyes you gotta remember that its not about us never has been. Its always been about God and God himself(triune). Its the covenant between the father and the son. The father has given a race of human beings to his son as a gift and the father said i want you to go and show these beings my gift to you that you love them but don't just tell them you love them but show them!!!!!!!!! actions speak louder then words, right? So before Jesus ever slung the matter and this physical universe into existence he had devised a plan with the father to bring about a salvation to his gift that was from the father. I got news for you and everyone reading this and that's it all about Gods glory and nothing i mean nothing to do with us(man). God work all things to his glory. This is what Calvin Luther Augustine and so on knew to be true. Never look at the scriptures or God for that matter through the eyes of man but from God perspective. Man has no clue about the things of God. God made that extremely clear when he was talking to Job. where were you when i had this plan in motion??? who are you o man??? yikes. I get where god is coming from on that front. Man has no clue about his anything esp his salvation. Salvation is of the Lord for his good pleasure. Its a gift that the father has given to certain ppl and he put those names in what he calls the lambs book of life. The elect by the father himself will be saved by his son. This is it in a nutshell. My many years being in Sem has taught me this. But we are always learning are we not. lol Give God all the glory for your salvation because he said so. lol
On that perfect standard ,,, we say who could be saved, but Jesus said for man it is imposible but for God everything is possible. Glory to Jesus
Nobody is arguing for perfection. Paul said he had not attained it. I don't imagine anyone else can. That is far from living in sin.
@@JimiSurvivor even worse Paul said,)
Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin (Romans 7:21-25)
@@JimiSurvivor My point is not to promote sin, sin is bad. But to open the door to the Father that is on faith in Jesus Christ not by turning from sin. There is a lot of people that will drink until they die, they should be told the hope that’s in Jesus Christ, not until you quit drinking you can’t be saved.
@@sbhgamen1671
So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin (Romans 7:21-25)
What are you saying this verse means?
@@sbhgamen1671
It sounds like you do not believe Christians can be delivered from the power of sin but that we must be in bondage to it forever. That is not what the NT teaches. One of Christ's reasons for dying was to free us from sin to serve Him.
Romans 6:17-18 But thanks be to God that, though you ONCE were SLAVES to sin, you wholeheartedly OBEYED the form of teaching to which you were committed.18 You have been SET FREE FROM SIN and have become SLAVES to righteousness.
As far as Romans 7:21-25 is concerned, Paul was talking about what it was like when he was an (unsaved) CARNAL man trying to keep God's law. He also explains WHY he could not keep the law:
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold as a slave to sin (Romans 7:21-25)
You left the Lord, because if He isn't your Lord, you are not saved. Lordship salvation is a true slogan, it lines up with the bible.
You let the world and the devil talk to you.
You let your feelings get control of you, so you sought out what agreed with you, so you could be at peace.
You miss the fact that that the new testament is the new covenant.
Covenant means both parties do their part. God has done His part and will continue to do His part to lead guide and direct Christians into all righteousness.
But we Christians have to obey God.
The Holy Spirit is given to them that obey God. Acts 5:32b.
Be ye doers and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:22. The deception? Thinking one is saved when they are not.
Stop it, obeying God is necessary for salvation, and it's enough for God. Christians who are saved are in communion with God, and they hear from God and deal with it immediately.
Stop it, the Bible says examine yourself... Your problem is you couldn't stand your uncertainty about your salvation. If you believed God, He would have told you what was what.
Examining yourself usually takes little time if you know God. You examine, God says, see, and you understand and obey God.
You let your mind and flesh panic.
You need to be born again, so you can even see the kingdom of God.
You didn't believe God so you went to Calvinism, a false belief that leaves out parts of the Bible.
A watched a video where a former Calvinist preacher was caught up in a vision by God and was taken to hell where he saw some of his former church members. He said God showed him that thet believed his calvinistic preaching, and lived that way, that is why they were there. If he continued to teach it, he would go there also. The former Calvinism preacher left that faith and became Arminian minded, which includes the whole Bible.
As you go along, see how your life goes, and if you fall short, go back to Lordship Salvation.
It's a covenant. Keep your end of it.
Every word, not what word makes you feel comfortable, leaving the words behind that made you uncomfortable.
Every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God is necessary for salvation.
You've been deceived.
The lord led me out of calvinism and it took a while for all the presuppositions that i was holding on to to actually leave , then i was able to see the text for what it truly said and not what i was making it say because of my presupposed
Theology that was instilled in my mind, i now live a better christian life without all the condemnation i was putting on myself through false teachings. I now have peace and Joy looking to Jesus as my
Savior and what he has done for me.
If you were putting condemnation on yourself it was due to a misunderstanding of Calvinism. If understood properly, the sovereignty of God in salvation is the most freeing truth one can imagine.
@@tsarkluaf197Actually, if you understood Calvinism, you should be scared to death.
@@tsarkluaf197 how can it be "freeing" when u have no idea if u are chosen or not? both Piper and Sproul affirmed that they cannot know for sure if the were "elect" until they die
@@tsarkluaf197If Calvinism is true then you have nothing to worry about. Either you are elected unto salvation or elected unto damnation and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. So, if it is true, nothing matters. Just do what you do because it is all determined. Love your neighbour or hate them it doesn’t matter because what ever you do is determined.
@@darrenmaki7806 that’s not Calvinism, that’s determinism. I believe in human responsibility and God’s sovereignty.
Would anyone who supports Lordship Salvation care to answer this question? Christian slave owner brutalizing slaves, owning them against their will for life yet remaining in otherwise good standing with his Church. Christian citizens endorsing slavery and doing business within that unjust system. Christian Abolitionists who opposed slavery but did not physically intervene to stop it or ever believe African Americans should have equal rights under the law. Christian Abolitionists who opposed all slavery & discrimination with force and in some cases MURDERED other Americans (both legally and illegally) to try to achieve it. You can also do similar lists for African and Indian Christian slaves & Freedmen/Slaveowners living during this period if you like.
All of them in one way or another ignored the Golden Rule of Jesus Christ throughout their lives.
Under your version of Salvation, which American was truly saved? Because this was essentially the makeup of the entire population of USA for hundreds of years.
““But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?”
Luke 6:46 NKJV
Cause I’m a free gracer Lord
Sanctification is a life-long process. We get refined as we go, as we walk with Him and abide in His Word.
We obey God because he saved us and Loves us! God isn't impersonal. He is our Father and he loves us like Sons. This ain't some dark false god that wants you to work for your Faith!
@@Loislikes Amen!❤️
(1)It's not are love for Jesus or God that saves us. It's are belief and trust in Jesus that saves us. These are two different things. AFTER we are saved we receive the holy spirit then we better understand the love God and Jesus has for us
God for sacrificing his son
And Jesus for willingly suffering everything he did for the whole world to be saved. (2)By understanding this we love, we then love them back in return and start to keep the commandments.
(3)A saved christains heart can become hardened by thier own sin, persecutions, afflictions and ect
They are still saved it's just their hearts have become hard and mabye even overcharged
Are love is not what saves us, are belief in Jesus alone is what saves us. It's should be a natural reaction to Jesus's sacrifice to love him and keep his commandments but it's not an inevitablity
(1) John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(1)John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
(2)Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
(2)Ephesians 3:16-19 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
(3)Hebrews 3:12-13 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
(This is an exhortation for saved brethren, using the illustration of Israel)
(3)Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Salvation cannot be faith and works. IT CAN ONLY BE FAITH ALONE
(Faith = Salvation)
(faith + works = damnation)
Galatians 3:2-4 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain
Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Funny thing most Calvinists tend to be Lordship Salvationists.
I’m neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist.
Lordship salvation is not a Calvinist belief. It primarily exists in Baptist circles because it is a general Baptist belief, not Calvinist. You aren't going to see Presbyterians holding to it for example.
@@ihiohoh2708You walk in error.
LS and Calvinsim are two sides of the same coin. It infects all works for salvationist groups.
This is beautiful Pastor Jon! Your journey is EXACTLY what I experienced! From obsessing over my own fruit and falling into despair (and consequently open sin)because of self examination, to peace, rest , and joy in the finished work of Christ! Thank you!
“I’m weary with my former toil
Here I will sit and rest a while,
Under the shadow I will be
Of Jesus Christ the apple tree.”
Thank you!
It’s almost like OCD obsessing about it all. It’s really terrible. Sometimes you hear preaching and think 🤔 I’m saved. And then you hear preaching and think yikes!
@@ladyesther that is really true!
Agreed!
This self-absorption or obsession triggers the flesh (aka self-effort). Romans 7 speaks about the destructive nature of self effort.
@@JhutaNabi good point!
Can you be Reformed while rejecting Lordship Salvation? I thought that was part of the package.
Well considering Presbyterians were Reformed before it was cool and they don't hold to Lordship Salvation, what do you think? :)
I reformed and still am free Grace.
Absolutely yes. I first heard over 30 years ago about the Lordship Salvation heresy by none other than John W. Robbins - who was (he's deceased) a Calvinist.
Lordship Salvation confuses discipleship and salvation. Even their idea of Discipleship is off because they never had faith in what Jesus did to begin with, that is why they supplement it with works.
I’m not going to convert someone and not disciple them. We are commanded to make disciples, not momentary converts.
@@saltlight7487 Why don't you read what Jesus said about becoming HIS disciple - have you forsaken everything? Your girl there? Your cell phone? All the worldly possessions you have ? Do you hate your mother and father ? No? Than you cannot be his disciple. You have no clue what you're talking about with all due respect. There are no disciples of Jesus now, we worship in the spirit. Go search how many times you see the word disciple in the books after Acts. Here's a hint, it rhymes with hero.
@@destroyingtheworksofthedev9349 I’ve forsaken what he has asked me to, as he reveals it. So far it has been sins that He has called me to forsake. Is that crazy to you? It is easy to follow Jesus bc he lives within me. So I don’t have to worry about being homeless or abandoning my family to follow Jesus. He is inside me. If these things become a problem he will reveal that to me. There ARE disciples. You don’t need to see a wording in the book of Acts for something to be biblical.
Matthew 28:18-20
King James Version
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER is given unto me in heaven and in earth.19 Go ye therefore, and teach ALL nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20 Teaching them to observe ALL things whatsoever I have COMMANDED you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Do you have an attitude about following Jesus practically today? I am sensing a strong disbelief in you.
@UCg4WyQ1wRUdhAVLGGBUiTZg If teaching repentance of sins means teaching them to be justified by the law that is what Paul did in acts 26. Repent and do works befitting repentance. I don’t do long division and gymnastics to ignore repentance. It was preached by all the prophets, Jon the Baptist, Jesus, the disciples and Paul.
Acts 2618 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
And Jesus says to teach people to obey him. That’s what I teach, if anything. I’m not going to share a half truth with anyone.
Jesus was calling people to actually follow Him on foot when he was saying those things. Now He is where my feet are. And I obey His commandments.
I’m glad you don’t preach stuff you don’t do, but perhaps you shouldn’t preach at all if you are not above reproach.
@@saltlight7487 So this is you just proving that you are a hypocrite and unlearned - one question - do you sin? If so, then do not tell people to stop all their sin. You are preaching works salvation - Paul said you who are justified by the law are fallen from grace. According to Paul you are fallen from grace and you teach people to do something you cannot do. Get yourself a concordance and see the word repent in the Greek means to change one's mind. So it's the Jews who had to repent of their belief in Moses Law for justification, and receive Grace by faith - Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Where does Paul say to repent here? See Acts is not doctrine - it is history of the early church and the Jews who rejected Jesus having a chance to repent. They had to change their ways completely - law to grace. Paul said we are DEAD to the law - and you are seeking to be justified by it, ye are fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4)
Romans 3
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 4
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.(you)
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.(saved people)
See so it's clear you are trying to work for a free gift and basically insulting the spirit of grace - Hebrews 10:26 is where you are at rn. Please read the scriptures more, you are not rightly dividing the word at all, just mixing it all together.
The book of John was written to save them who believe on his name - how many times is the word repent in the book of John?
0.
It would be helpful if you first nailed down what exactly Lordship Salvation actually teaches. Because what you've presented here is something that I have not seen anyone accused of teaching LS actually say. Where can I get an explanation of what LS actually is, and who is teaching it? Because I haven't found anyone saying the things you are suggesting here.
I agree, there seems a conflation with root and fruit.
Thanks for sharing that Pastor Jon. Not that I ascribe to Lordship Salvation,I do wonder deep within if I missed it somewhere,as I pray 5 days a week in the mornings before work and yet miss on the weekend,also missed reading the Bible at times due to the business of life and other things;but it’s all in the finished work of Christ,He’s our perfection.
Our God does not keep score with these external things. It’s about our hearts toward Him, not checking boxes, as we all tend to lean toward. Also, on the weekends,you can “flash pray.”
I think John MacArthur would agree with what you are saying. “Lordship Salvation” is a label that is inadequate to describe the view of salvation. Yes, we are saved by Grace. And yes, the Holy Spirit leads us to good works. And yes, when we get off track we need to look to Jesus.
The reason “LORDSHIP SALVATION” came to fore was as a counter to the ‘easy believing’ movement that told people if you say a prayer with Jesus in it and say you believe you are saved once and for all. Matthew 7 and James are texts that make it clear that not every profession of knowing Jesus and loving him is valid.
OSAS is the Gospel.
I don't uphold the covenant of my salvation, but Christ does. He cannot violate or break it. I AM IN HIM SO I AM SECURE.
We are JUSTIFIED by FAITH ALONE---PERIOD!... Nothing More--Nothing Less!
Faith in Christ, who is Lord and Savior. We cannot divided Him into parts and trust the part that benefits us.
Martin Luther added the word "alone" to the words grace and faith, ie grace alone or faith alone ,to oppose the faith in works of the catholic church but it is found nowhere in scripture.
I found this helpful! You should live stream sometimes
Thanks! Working on it
@@THEOCAST @8:00 which confessions of faith? The explanation of what the bible says according to what tradition? @8:17 good works are possible to come out because we have been born anew in Christ, the good works will not automatically come out, see John 15. Our Lord does not leave us to attain perfection on our own. The Lord perfects us through the Holy Spirit-sanctification. It is sanctification that is necessary for glorification but this is done by the power of Christ in us. “Give what you command, O Lord, and command what you will” St. Augustine
I would say it is Holy Spirit wrought graced perfection not natural perfection. Even if we kept the letter of the law perfectly this would fall short of Heaven. This would only be a natural perfection. However, heaven is a supernatural reality that is only possible by the sanctifying grace of Christ in us given to us.
Romans 8:4 the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Gal 6:8 If you sow to your own flesh, you will reap corruption from the flesh; but if you sow to the Spirit, you will reap eternal life from the Spirit.
It is by the grace of the Holy Spirit , His love poured into us that the spirit of the law can be fulfilled.
Romans 5:5 and hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit which has been given to us.
Spirit of the law (love) supernatural vs. letter of the law (legalism) natural--Pharisitical and Pelagianism
It wouldn't be Christ 's perfection on our behalf but Christ's perfecting us. We are really made perfected, sanctified by Him.
We are cleansed of our former sins (2 Peter 1:9) He has not yet cleansed us of sins not committed yet. Our Father forgive us our daily trespasses. It is a real, in time forgiveness when we repent, not a declaration we have been forgiven but a real cleansing of sins (1 John1:9).
@@THEOCAST @2:18 What is a Christian? What is the objective sign I have become a Christian, a new creation, reborn in Christ? What does accepting Jesus as Lord mean? I believe that both Reformed Lordship Salvation and Antinomianism are false. Good thing, thanks be to God, because of the grace of Christ and by the grace of Christ there is another option.
Wow Jon Moffit. You have some hits and misses in this video. Today I will just leave you with this: Don't confuse Justification and Salvation. Salvation is a process, justification is a place along the path of Salvation.
Thank you for this message. You spoke directly to where I came from, the anxiety and introspection trying to figure out if my emotions and thoughts were correct. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more, since we are now reconciled, shall be saved by his life! Praise God!
@@ThomasCranmer1959 what's your point?
@@ThomasCranmer1959 You're quoting scripture but you're not saying what you're saying. Be forthright. If you think Jude 4 is Theocast then say it. Because I think many people are going to take your comment that way. Perhaps you don't want to say it because you don't want to have to defend it?
@@ThomasCranmer1959 Thanks for the scriptures and for being more forthright in your views.
I’m reformer leaning. Thirsty. I’m not quite sure exactly what he’s saying but what I’ve come to terms with is I’m filthy rags no matter what, my obedience to “the law” is out of love and gratitude for the finished work of Jesus. I can never earn anything! I’m clothed in righteousness due to Christ alone. Is this the message he’s saying? Please be kind.
If Jesus isn't yours Lord, you aren't saved.
Jesus is already Lord! Doesn't matter if he is yours or not. Stop mixing the teachings of Discipleship into the Gospel of Salvation.
I'm new, I understand that Jesus always been Lord. As salvation is by faith through grace, as I read how Jesus not only spoke but lived a humbled servant to those who he was saving and those who apposed Him.
Also it declares to deny ourselves and those not before Jesus, which leads us through our salvation bearing the fruits of His HolyGhost.
I acknowledge I was a wretched heathen who coveted and a blasphemer in my actions.
Because we have eternal life and death has been defeated, this is something to rejoice, yet not boast in ourselves, because we bring nothing to our salvation, as we grow He adds unto us those faithful with little.
In John the disciples asked the Lord what works they must do [to be saved and be His]. He said the only work they must do is to believe in Him.
If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart the Father raised Him from the dead you will be saved. Romans 10:9
Well you see. In john 6 we only believe. But in romans, we must also confess. So where do we find the complete gospel since these are only portions of the whole truth?? From Jesus. We must repent
Here is the same gospel as Jesus described it in slightly different terms:
23 Then Jesus said to all of them, “If anyone wants to COME AFTER ME, he must DENY HIMSELF and take up his CROSS daily and FOLLOW ME. 24 For whoever wants to SAVE his life will LOSE it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will SAVE it.…
(Luke 9:21-24)
Jesus was speaking about SAVING our lives (or souls), "coming after Him" following and obeying Him as sheep hear their Shepherd's voice and follow Him. Of course they BELIEVE in and TRUST the Shepherd. Following Him is an act of trust. It is not a mark of "deeper life" It is about living...period. No one is alive spiritually who has not taken this step
@JimiSurvivor then explain why roman 10:9 says all we have to do is believe in Jesus.
Isn't following him and believing he is Lord the same
Jesus called sinners to follow him. Not as a work prior to salvation but as the evidence of faith. Being born again makes you a new creation with new desires. God will sanctify those he saves. Salvation is by faith in Christ. But Being born again will result in a desire to follow Jesus as Lord.
The first point about being a sinner and a saint is not against Lordship Salvation(at least as espoused by people like Macarthur, Washer, etc.) They willingly admit that the saint is still a sinner and can fall far but that they will be waging war, and if they aren't doing that, though they may be saved, we cannot have any assurance that they are. This is directly what John talks about in 1 John and forgetting this takes away the (godly) fear and trembling the Christian is suppose to have toward making their call and election sure. This goes into the second point which was questioning your own intentions and others is a clear biblical teaching(though one must focus on the log in their eye on the individual issues so as to not be a hypocrite for judging when they themselves are guilty) of "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves." Also justification is in Jesus who is outside but for assurance you must look at and test yourself to the word of God and so it is an outside standard that is looked at in you personally and again most main proponents do not claim it has to be a lot of works but that there are at least some. Go read the 18th Chapter of Westminster(which your Baptist confession bastardized) and it will clearly agree with Lordship salvation. Finally, the perfection argument is actually a strawman, you are talking about justification and then putting that rule across to assurances. Believing you are justified without any fruit is vain. So I can absolutely say that I am justified by the perfect life, death, resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ, but that I have assurance through what He has wrought in me and by the internal testimony of the Holy Spirit and say as my forefathers did, "This infallible assurance doth NOT so belong to the ESSENCE OF FAITH, but that a TRUE BELIEVER MAY WAIT LONG, AND CONFLICT WITH MANY DIFFICULTIES BEFORE HE BE PARTAKER OF IT: yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto. And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure; that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, the proper fruits of this assurance: so far is it from inclining men to looseness." and "True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it; by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience, and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation; by God’s withdrawing the light of his countenance, and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light: yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may in due time be revived, and by the which, in the meantime, they are supported from utter despair." Your argument showed extremely careless strawmen toward the subject(at least as espoused by the main proponents) which shows foolishness toward the subject even when you claim to have a good knowledge of it, so I would implore you to repent of your careless speech which falsely painted our brethren, along with your wrong understanding of our forefathers words in their confessions(since the 2LCF section is the same as the WCF) by confusing salvation and assurance thereof(which is commonly pointed out by Macarthur, Paul Washer, etc.) Looking at the average pastor who might word it wrong and muddle the understanding does not mean that the men who have clearly propounded the doctrine have. Long Live the Lord Jesus Christ and May He Receive the Full Reward of His Suffering.
Does any man here not believe that there is a sanctification process that takes time, when a seed is planted does the farmer see his field fully grown the next day ? X
Yes! You are exactly right! I agree 100%!!!
I came out of the charismatic movement which was a lot of prophecies which were all false and a lot of not reading the Bible now I read the Bible my salvation is by grace alone through faith in Jesus Christ
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
Paul says Test yourself to see if you are a true Christian.
"2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-unless indeed you fail to meet the test!"
If a work of God does not continue than its not a work of God.
If you fall short of the test repent and believe.
Cry out to God for mercy until a work is done.
To test yourself to see if you're a real Christian read 1John.
1John 3:3-10
And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
4Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all 6If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin".
What does it mean to walk in darkness? A style of life.If we say we are a Christian and our lifestyle contradicts everything God has told us about Himself and His will, we are a liar. If our lifestyle contradicts God's character then claiming to be a Christian is a lie. Not talking about unscriptual sinless perfection. Even a very mature Christian is susceptible to sin. Someone that has truly been born again will be sensitive to sin and they will be led to repentance and confession to that sin.
1 John 1:8-10
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us".
When was the last time you were broken over a sin? If you are sensitive to sin it will lead you to confession.
Thank you!! I need the reminder. Your very good at explaining this, praise God I left Lordship salvation and Jesus showed me true freedom looking at him
So now you are "free" from the "bondage" of serving Christ?
A. In the Upper Room (after Judas left) Jesus told the disciples:
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15).
Notice that he says HIS commands and not the commands of Moses. His commands reach down into our motives.
B. The connection between love for Christ and obedience to Him is a recurring theme in the apostle John’s writings:
“This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands” (1 John 5:2-3).
C. When Paul described the Roman's salvation experience he expressed it as offering themselves to Him as obedient slaves:
17 But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly OBEYED the form of teaching to which you were committed.18 You HAVE BEEN SET FREE from sin and have become SLAVES to righteousness.…
(Romans 6:16-18)
And 1 John 3:22-23 says,
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 And this is His commandment, That we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
I believe the other person was speaking of being free from the bondage of sin, not Christ smh!
There is ONLY one way in which we can be saved, which is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins.
The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is the Gospel.
We read the Gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
Romans 3:20 is clear where we read,
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall NO FLESH be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
@@ThomasCranmer1959 No, but some people are deceived into thinking that it is. Otherwise Paul would not have felt the need to remind believers that antinomianism is not the gospel. John had to make the same point to the Gnostics in his letter.
@@ThomasCranmer1959
(1). First of all, I am not an Arminian. As for your idea that "death" means that our wills are is paralyzed and INCAPABLE of choosing Christ, this is a misapplication of the metaphor. "Dead" does not mean inoperable nor did it indicate that the corruption was necessarily Total. The corruption of the Antediluvians was described as a process that took place over hundreds of years.
(2) When Adam fell do you remember God ever saying to him that, from now on, neither he nor any of his children would be able to submit to God's will? The image of God in him was certainly MARRED but not completely obliterated.
(3). DEAD is a term indicating alienation from the life of God.
Many, even under the Old Covenant, "walked with God" However, since then, God has commanded everyone to repent
@@ThomasCranmer1959
Arminias believed total depravity, that is in TOTAL INABILITY. I do not and neither did the Ante-Nicene fathers before Augustine. Paul said:
16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the POWER of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. 17 For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”…
(Romans 1:16)
There is also the Holy Spirit who was sent to "convict" men of their sin particularly the sin of unbelief.
Lordship Salvation is a "sinless perfectionism" teaching, in addition to being legalistic and irrational.
We hear so much about "fruit" and "evidence" that it i s easy to fall into Galatian error. I got to the point where if I didn't let someone merge in traffic I wondered if I was "really" a Christian. I missed so many years of peace & assurance!
Or how would they account for individuals suffering through mental illness, PTSD & brain development abnormalities? What is the proper measurement scale of sound mind vs guilt?
@@jaysonb.6669 I suffer from a serious mental illness. Continuing daily prayer kept me from committing suicide. Every day I would renew my mind in the word
@@JimiSurvivor That's wonderful. Praise God! But just remember that as long as you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior by FAITH, through his grace you will be saved. ✝💖
@@jaysonb.6669 I stayed close to the word because I was desperate.
That is legalism. The fruit of the Spirit is what we are called upon to produce and every one of them lead away from bondage increase our quality of life Think about some we find difficult, like longsuffering, which has to do with being able to long withstand provocation. If we have it we will not react when people and circumstances tempt us to blow up. That is an advatage
Works is not the same thing as being obedient...This is where people get confused.." Works " is thinking that things like circumcision, animal sacrifice, burnt offerings etc. will get you saved, which it will not.
Amen thank you for sharing your thoughts good stuff here ... My only disagreement is that progressive sanctification often puts people under the same mental bondage that lordship salvation often does... You said that one's own personal obedience can increase one's assurance.. I'm not sure how that would play out since our salvation is completely independent of our own righteousness and obedience and good works and the world is filled with people with a false assurance because of that same criteria.. God bless you hope your day is good..
The sanctification the believer endures is "Because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the spirit and belief of truth' II Thess 2:13. Sanctification is not sinning less, but believing the TRUTH! John 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth"
@@brianc81 Amen.. Hebrews 10:10 ( And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.) I beleive it...!
@Janaina RibeiroThis video I made on that subject and those verses If you love me keep my commandments.. This should clear up your confusion..
God bless...
ruclips.net/video/0HM-ZI5Rths/видео.html
@Janaina Ribeiro Unfortunately I can tell from your comment you are very confused and bought into the modern day pop culture Christianity church system here's a video that I did on that very subject on how the fruit of the Spirit is born...
God bless...
ruclips.net/video/gmnZTbErciU/видео.html
@Janaina Ribeiro Obedience is BELIEVING the Gospel. We cannot please God in the flesh. Santification is belief of TRUTH. John 17:17 "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
Umm... your creating a false dichotomy. Lordship Salvation, correctly understood, IS the sanctification model of Reformed Theology. I think your confusing it with neo-keswick sanctification of Ryrie and Bright. MacArthur never asks if Jesus is the Lord of your life, he says Jesus IS Lord. Same as the confessions. Everything you said in this video, real Lordship Salvation, correctly understood, lines up with everything you brought up in the confessions. Its like people are applying Paul Washer's call to be Born Again, to sanctification - which doesn't work. I think what you describe as your experience is a perversion of the theology that is not actually a part of the theology. Gun hoe pastors looking at sanctification as behavior modification, which is really bad practical theology, and latching on to PART of the lordship model to beat their own drum with it. I think everything you said, Phil Johnson and company would agree with you on. I believe that is one of the reasons Dr. MacArthur wrote three more books on the subject - to clarify his position and what it is not. What you described his position as, is what it is not.
I agree. Everything he said that is "correct" salvation is what LS teaches.
"Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-unless indeed you fail to meet the test!" 2 Corinthians 13:5
"No, I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified." -1 Corinthians 9:27
"For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Romans 8:13
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?"- Luke 6:46
8:45 "Believers should pursue obedience and love." No, it's that believers love and obey, not that they "should." You really need to discern the imperative/indicative distinction.
You speak of love like it's a law to obey. Love is a belief in your heart that someone is precious and important, not the RESULTING labors.
I would love to see more folks get the revelation of saving grace . This is a huge topic debated in Christendom and we just keep praying for people to get free from this religious false gospel . God bless
Is doing the will of God the false religious gospel?
@@JimiSurvivor the will of God is explicitly stated in John 6:29 “this is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent”
@@phineas8532
Of course God wants us to believe so we can be saved. However there is an obstacle within us that is our own self-delusion.
18 They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the IGNORANCE that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts (Ephesians 4:18).
The human heart is resistant to the light because it pierces the veil of self delusion This barrier must be overcome by the operation of the word and the Spirit:
Repentance is the souls response to seeing its sin.
30 Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands ALL PEOPLE everywhere to repent.
(Acts 17:30)
Unless we KNOW we are sinners we will not reach out to the Savior in faith. As Jesus said, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.
(Mark 2:17)
@@JimiSurvivor there are no obstacles to believing or having had faith just once in the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith is the only precondition to everlasting salvation. Jesus’ gospel is easy: Matthew 11:30 “for my yoke is easy and my burden is light”
@@phineas8532 There are no obstacles as far as God is concerned. The only "obstacle" to taking his yoke is our rebellion. However the fact that Christ has a "yoke" tells is that we must submit to Him and obey Him. That is what the yoke meant:
Here, read it in Jeremiah:
1 At the beginning of the reign of Zedekiaha son of Josiah king of Judah, this word came to Jeremiah from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD said to me: “Make for yourself a YOKE out of leather straps and put it on your neck. 3 Send word to the kings of Edom, Moab, Ammon, Tyre, and Sidon through the envoys who have come to Jerusalem to Zedekiah king of Judah. 4 Give them a message from the LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel, to relay to their masters:
(Jeremiah 27:1-4)
5 By My great power and outstretched arm, I made the earth and the men and beasts on the face of it, and I give it to whom I please. 6 So now I have placed all these lands UNDER THE AUTHORITY of My servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. I have even made the beasts of the field subject to him. 7 All nations WILL SERVE HIM...8As for the nation or kingdom that does not SERVE Nebuchadnezzar...I will punish that nation by sword and famine and plague...
(Jeremiah 27:5-8)
Christ does not force His yoke on us but He does command US to TAKE it but the yoke represents obedience. It is not heavy because the Holy Spirit helps us to do what He says
I left the heresy of Lordship Salvation when I was presented the gospel.
Good overall analysis! Unfortunately Calvin held to an arcane doctrine of temporary faith. Also unfortunately, Reformed theologians have been the main protagonists for a complex (tripartite or bipartite) faith which ultimately adds acts of the will into the definition of faith. I recommend the excellent Letters on Theron and Aspasio by Robert Sandeman or the works of the Scotch Baptist, Archibald McLean for a more careful definition of faith.
Reformed theology teaches that God makes us willing… so it’s still an act of will following regeneration. These guys do not teach historic reformed theology.
@@classicchristianliterature That is why historic Reformed theology is not Biblical on this matter. Scripture clearly teaches that faith is a gift of God and not an act of the human will, neither pre nor post regeneration ( John 6:29, John 6:63, Rom. 9:18, Ephesians 2:8,9). Reformed theology is similar to Arminianism on this, only Reformed theology says God regenerates us, infusing us with the ability to perform “assensus” to the gospel.
@@scottgordon1303 so humans even after being given the gift of faith are not willing to believe?
@@classicchristianliterature The elect, after given the gift of faith, understand that faith is a gift and not of the human will, as Scripture proclaims and so their salvation is of the Lord alone.
@@scottgordon1303 I believe salvation is of the Lord alone. I believe in sovereign election. You did not answer my question though, and furthermore I would disagree with your answer. Not all of God’s elect have perfect doctrine (so no, not all of God’s elect understand salvation the same way you do).
My question is, after being given the gift of faith, are men willing to believe?
I’ve watched up to 3:00 and had a thought on your comment that what you were taught ‘wasn’t always’ aligning with scripture. Based on what followed that, “conviction of sin,” “self examination,” “desiring to evangelize enough?” Are all Scriptural. What you just described was 1) working out your faith with fear and trembling (2 Cor 7:15, Psalm 2:11, Phil 2:12), 2) examining yourself to see if you’re in the faith (1 Cor 13:5), and 3) the call to the Great Commission (Matt 28:19), respectively.
This is the grace that brings salvation. Right here!
Titus 2: 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
This rebellious denial of the Lordship of Christ doesn’t mean you believe the gospel more than anyone. That’s false humility.
@Stress stop being a Pharisee first and foremost, looking for catch phrases and verses or steps to save you instead of submitting to Christ. Here is a Pharisee check for you:
Here is what a Pharisee is not: a person practicing and preaching/sharing the truth of Christ. Not just in words, but truth and deed.
Here is what a Pharisee actually is, and they don’t all have to happen in order for it to apply:
Someone who despises the truth of Christ.
Someone who cannot admit they need cleansing from Christ.
Someone who words things in ways to absolve themselves from obeying Christ.
Someone who asks questions as a means to try and trap godly men and women in their words.
Someone who displays themselves as godly in public but is practicing sin in their private life.
Someone who refuses to repent and submit to Christ because they think they are good.
Someone with a lot of outward religion that has nothing to do with godliness but makes them feel better.
Someone who uses Scripture dishonestly like Satan.
@Stress I have scripture references for all of those markings of a Pharisee if you want them.
@@saltlight7487 Toward the end of Paul's ministry, Paul cried out that he was indeed a Pharisee.
Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
@Stress bc they didn’t stop sinning, but thought activities would save them. Basically doing everything except what Jesus says….in His name.
Also the parallel of Luke for you
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
@Stress in real life I know a fornicator who feeds homeless people, and says she believes in Jesus. Will feeding homeless people wash away her sins? No. She needs to confess and repent and do what God says instead of trying to absolve her guilt with feeding homeless people.
This guy is confused. "If anyone is in Christ he is a new creation; old things have passed away and all things have become new"(2 Corinthians 5:17). And most "Christians" look like the world and 1 John 2:15 says "Anyone who loves the world is an enemy of God". Finally, unfortunately many who think they are saved will hear "Depart from Me you workers of iniquity. I never knew you". (Matthew 7:21-23).
Amazing!!!Thanku Jesus! I can relate to you 100% I'm so grateful that God brought you guys together to create Theocast. I listen to it as I hold my newborn and I have such peace. I was dead n now I'm alive! All glory to God NOT me!
@messenger ministries Good grief
For a person who professes to be a learned man of God it's amazing how you got this wrong.
I wonder if you really believe what you are saying or is there something more sinister behind this presentation.
This was instrumental in driving me from Calvinism to confessional Lutheranism: I was ultimately looking to my own works and efforts, because if I wasn’t feeling love toward God all the time, or if I was even struggling with sinful desires, I might not be elect.
I look to and rest in Christ alone now. Yes, I strive to be obedient, but I do it knowing that I will still need to come to repentance at the end of each day.
I did not need to go either to Calvinism, "Confessional Lutheranism, or to Antinomian free grace to escape fear. The Holy Spirit and His perfect love casts out all. God's expectations for us are not unreasonable especially when we consider we have the power of the indwelling Spirit to help us overcome temptation
@@JimiSurvivor It does not matter if you can live a great life to God's standards once you are saved though. If you think you can live up to the standard, even with the Holy Spirit, then give it a go, you will fail within minutes, as God sees the imagination of our hearts and they are sin. We are hidden in Christ for this reason, he sees no sin, he sees his son.
@@04Redeemed
Christ died so He could cleanse our hearts so that we could be inhabited by the Spirit. He did this so that we would have the power to live as He wants us to. This is exactly what the “new covenant in His Blood” was intended to accomplish.
I will give you a NEW HEART and put a NEW SPIRIT within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, and you will keep My judgments and DO THEM…
(Ezekiel 36:26-27)
The promise of the new covenant was that the wellspring of our motives (our heart) would be replaced and that God's Spirit would no longer be with us but in us. This arrangement would enable us to walk in obedience.
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Apparently, you have been taught that His plan was utter failure. According to your own words no one, not even one who has the Holy Spirit "can exist even for even a minute without sin." If this were true then the New Covenant does not truly TAKE AWAY sin or dethrone sin from ruling the heart and mind. Instead, the blood only COVERS sin like a coat of paint or like the sacrifices under the Law which only covered sin but never took it away.
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Rather than CRUCIFY sin God renders Himself BLIND to it. If this were so God would never be able to rebuke us for our sins since they would be invisible to Him. However, when we look at the Book of Revelation we see Jesus Himself rebuking believers. How could He rebuke them if He could not see their sin
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Also when Paul spoke of the effects of the gospel in a person’s life he did not speak as if it were a mere book-keeping trick whereby God HIDES sin. Paul saw the gospel change people so that they NO LONGER lived in their sinful lifestyles:
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9 Do you not know that the wicked WILL NOT INHERIT the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
The moral and spiritual change brought about in their salvation experience was evident in their lives and served as proof that they had been born again. Those who continued to be wicked or who later returned to it "will not inherit the Kingdom"
Luther was instrumental in executing thousands of Anabaptists for the "crime" of Baptizing repentant adults. What does that say about him?
Unfortunately, Lordship salvation is modern day Pharisees. It is a work-base salvation, which they are fallen from Grace being justified by the law.
You characterization of Lordship Salvation seems to be a bit of a straw man. Jesus does indeed say take up your cross and die to self. However, the constant self examination you are talking about is legalism and works based righteous. I have never heard people like MacArthur advocate that view. That would be the Papists.
So are you saved by picking up a cross and dying to self? Or is that the result of one who has been saved and empowered by the Spirit to do so. We have two full episodes as well for this topic
I think you should watch this video it will help clear up your misconception about picking up your cross. ruclips.net/video/3ZNnnmnb2Ig/видео.html
We did an entire episode explaining the historical and theological meaning here ruclips.net/video/0lUSPTkWMUI/видео.html
John MacArthur teaches Works, that is what 'Lordship Salvation' is...Pre-packaged Roman Catholicism that has infiltrated Calvinism (aka the doctrines of GRACE) and it's so called teachers. Salvation is by GRACE and FAITH alone (Which God grants to the believer) and there is nothing else added to it, otherwise it becomes WORKS. Paul is pretty clear that Works and GRACE don't mix (Romans 11:6), which is why he said "and NOT of ourselves' (Ephesians 2:8-9), otherwise we would have something to boast. MacAuthur would declare a believer unsaved based on their 'actions' or 'works' , which leads to self preservation in Salvation.
@@brianc81 You should read Ephesians 2:10 as well. Works are the result of justification (not the other way around to be clear). MacArthur is pushing back against cheap grace, antinomianism.
Huh?????????!!!!!!!?????
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. ( 1 JOHN 2;19 KJV) Lordship Salvation has taken me into an intimacy with my God, Savior, and Friend, Jesus Christ in such a beautiful way that i left religion so i may just Love, Obey, and Follow my Friend, the Almighty Word forever. May i decrease so He may increase forever in me Forever, for whosoever has not his Spirit is none of His.
So, do you errantly refer to the whole bible as "THE LAW'" ? Why do so many Christians conflate or confuse the Law of Moses with the New Testament warnings and ordinances? Paul never confused these things. Every time we see the New Testament mention not being made righteous by the law, it is clearly speaking of following the Old Testament laws for the forgiveness of sins! Of course we are no longer sacrificing animals or stoning people to death, because only the righteous sacrifice of Christ can save us. But, when I say that we must "REMAIN IN CHRIST" for salvation........it definitionally cannot mean justified by the law, because the Old Testament law keepers have nothing to do with the so very many New Testament warnings of abandoning your faith! When someone accuses me of "A WORKS BASED SALVATION", they always follow up with telling me that I am requiring people to keep 'THE LAW"! Then they quote a passage where Paul speaks against trying to keep the law! But the apostle Paul was ALWAYS speaking of the Old Testament laws and ceremonial religious practices whereby people made their OWN atonement for their sins! So, when the New Testament gives us so many decrees, ordinances, statutes, and warnings.....pleading with us to "NOT ABANDON OUR FAITH", it has NOTHING to do with following a single Old Testament Law for salvation. It seems so very ignorant and elementary when one doesn't clearly differentiate between "keeping the Law for salvation" and "REMAINING IN CHRIST for salvation" just as our LORD AND SAVIOR told us to do!
This what you describe at minute 10.00 is in German called : spiritual navel-gazing... And I remember very good how sad it feels.
I personally have come to the conclusion that Lordship Salvation is one of the many "Counter Reformation" tactics of the Roman Catholic Church. It make salvation sound like grace when it is in reality by works.
If you have just gotten saved or you have accepted Christ 50 yrs ago. We must search the Bible for answers for yourself. Fortunately This message here is good.
Sanctification isn't a PROCESS. Justification (being made righteous in Christ) & Sanctification (being set-apart in Christ) happen instantaneously & simultaneously @ Salvation [1Cor6:11]. Infact Christ Himself has become the Righteousness & Sanctification of His born-again children [1Cor1:30]!
Amen!! My obedience is the fruit of the faith in the work of Jesus that saved a wretch like me! My works in faith still fall short in the physical but are fulfilled in my faith IN Jesus's work on the cross. Eyes on Jesus! Not turning from the left or right. He is my hope and STAY. It is my works that were crucified in Him on the cross, I died, now it is Christ who lives in me, who accomplished all the righteousness that my faith in Him will attain. It is a perfect faith, because He provided it for me by grace!! OH LORD what a Saviour You are in Christ Jesus my Lord! Thank you Lord Jesus!!!
It's very clear that Jesus calls ALL men to come to Him in order to receive Life (Regeneration). We don't receive Life (Regeneration) in order to go to Him.
💥Jn20:31
"..but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have Life in His name".
💥Jn5:40
"..but you are not willing to come to me so that you may have life".
Even John MacArthur wrote a book about the Lordship Salvation message, although mixed with Calvinistic viewpoint. Your examination of the Reformer’s “confessions” of the faith, or appeal to 400 years of “traditions of men”, does not do you or your listeners service. How can you ignore Luke 6:46-49, John 15:1-11, and all the “Cost of Discipleship” (Dietrich Bonhoeffer) Discipleship call requirements Jesus made of His disciples? Did the great commission tell the apostles to go teach men a lesser gospel message than they had received (Matt. 28:19)? Does one cut out the words of Jesus, and His message, as irrelevant, or as only applying to “the apostles” and not all disciples who were to come afterwards by their preaching? How are these verses considered non-applicable to novice disciple believers:
Luke 9:23-24;57-62;14:26-27,33
John 8:31-32; 12:25-26
Matthew 7:13-14
Even the Apostle Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom of God did he not (Acts 28:23,31)?
The early church were followers (disciples) of the Way (Acts 11:26; 24:5,14; 28:22) They weren’t called “Christians” until Antioch as a pejorative of the “cult/sect” of the Nazarenes.
Disciples followed Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6). The Way which leads to life (Matthew 7:14). The Way of God in truth (Matt. 22:16; Mark 12:14).
The words of Jesus, the message He spoke from the Father, is the message above all other words previously spoken.
Disciples weren’t confessing Calvinist’s TULIP, but Christ as Lord and savior, surrendering all to follow His words and His Spirit.
That Jesus’ words were more important than the rest of God’s word is plainly evident in His own authenticated words, witnessed to by the Holy Spirit in many signs, wonders, and miracles, including the glory of God on display by the resurrection of Lazarus and Jesus Himself.
The Father says, “This is my Son, hear Him”.
I don’t agree with this because the bible says we are to look within “ examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith” 2 Corinthians
It is biblical to look for the Holy Spirit’s work in our lives. Not our works but God’s.
Do I hate sin?
Am I repentant/ forsaking sin
Does sin dominate my life?
I wholeheartedly agree that we are saved through grace alone in Christ alone but I believe the Christian can take comfort and assurance from the evidence of God’s work in us..
Thanks. I've been thinking about it recently.
You hit what really is so offensive to God I believe in Lordship Salvation.
Too much looking within and self examination!
Ephesians 1:6, We are unto the praise of the glory of His grace.
Reformed doctrines of grace is looking and trusting in God for everything.
The essence of legalism is looking within.
NO one can keep the law... and thus Jesus doesn't expect us too.. rather trying to do so is trying to circumvent Christ himself and thus losing salvation.... ALL Christians believe in Faith alone for salvation , if they deny faith alone they are not believers at all but belong to a cult of works based salvation , which usually is sourced from a human system church or religion rather than Jesus.
Pastor Jon, i appreciate your use of the Scriptures in defining salvation. Where does Lordship Salvation disagree with what you believe though? I'm referring to how Macarthur explains it, not how it is perceived.
*Trojan Horses in the Church Today - Part 2: Lordship Salvation* 👇🏼
ruclips.net/video/LDDxdUxvQWY/видео.html
I had the same thought. Other than saying LS is wrong and that it states you must look to your own works, those who teach LS say all the same things he said.
Lordship salvation means doing what the Lord has said. Luke 6:46 “Now why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?" In other words, we have no right to call Him 'Lord, Lord,' if we don't do what He says. "Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" (Mth 28:20). That's what a disciple is taught to do. There is no contradiction between Lordship salvation and grace. They both go together.
The "good news" is that God himself saves those he wants to. There ain't a thing anybody can do about it. If you believe, it's a gift. The simplicity of saving faith is what's so difficult about it! What could you possibly do to get it or keep it? He's given us his Spirit. The indwelling Christ so that, if we will, we have the ability not to sin. Perfection? Forget about it! Yet, we are perfect in his Son. Faith itself is the proof. The reason anyone believes is because they've been given life. God himself chooses! We don't! Sorry!!! God's sovereignty seems to bother so called "Christians" more than anyone else. We are called sheep because we're stupid. Wake up! Enough of this dribble! Salvation is a discovery, not an act. Shut up, get on your knees, and praise him for giving you faith! Dead men don't make decisions.
The lazy believers will justify and reject Jesus' Lordship and refuse to deny themselves, carry the cross daily and follow Jesus. The Lord will say to them, 'You lazy and wicked...'
You don't have to leave calvanism just because you misunderstand the word (LORDSHIP) if you're a Christian Jesus is lord for no one can call him lord except by the spirit, must understand that christ never called you to perfection he called you to follow him, all we have now is a battle with the flesh
I didn't get to watch the entire video thoroughly, but my stance on Lordship Salvation is biblical, it's just the way how people have presented it or misinterpreted is the issue. Absolutely, we are justified by faith alone in Christ alone. Our right stand relationship with God is of grace that is outside of our works. Dead man can't save themselves, God chose us and saved us in Jesus. This grace when received by faith will not be left alone, but be accompanied by good works. Our grounds of assurance will always be by looking to Jesus and knowing that sin has been atoned for; it is finished. But again, when the Spirit grants us to believe in this, it'll drive us to obedience. And I assume that gradually as the Christian grows or matures, there submission to the Lordship of Christ will too grow. I'm not sure if these are the main distinctions, but I would love to hear anyone else's thoughts.
It is truly simple. Discern what you hear and always refer to The Word.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Jesus himself stated “deny thyself, pick up your cross daily and follow me.” Direct and straight forward.
This new liberal teaching is based on your faith, that you repent and that works are not required, obedience to laws is not part of salvation.
Based on this, why do you repent and turn from sin?
The New Testament tells us that Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law.
The second greatest commandment is to love others, which is impossible without obedience to God and being a good person in compliance with His commandments.
The foundation of Christianity is to: Accept Jesus Christ is your Lord (there it is) and savior, repent and turn from your sins (pretty easy to understand what this means) and follow Him.
This new “reformed” (liberal) thought is not biblical. In fact the term “reformed” is created because it is changing something that was formed.
And what are they trying to change in your mind? The Infallible Word of God.
Now ask yourself, who is our main adversary that would want to separate you from your Lord and Savior. This is who these “reformed” are deceived by.
I still do not agree with the saint and sinner dichotomy. I still believe in the possibility of entire/complete sanctification. However outwardly I dont think Ive ever met anyone there.. Hence why I believe its possible and should be strived for as to receive it... I do not believe we are still sinners but rather saints still in a flesh that is tempted and with free will.. BUT I gotta say.. I love what you are saying about realizing what salvation truly is and has NOTHING to do lordship.. Im also not a calvinist so I dont believe in the limited atonement or unconditional election. I do appreciate you confronting lordship salvation though
I still dont understand what people mean by "Lordship Salvation". Does it mean that people think they're not saved unless they are walking in perfect union with Jesus as Lord? The Bible says that the thief on the cross said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Paul says in Romans 10:9, confess Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved. Confessing Jesus as Lord is required to be saved, walking in a transformative life is the fruit of that belief. The writer of Hebrews tell us that we must give more earnest heed to the things that we have learned and Peter tells us, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue. A true personal relationship begins in Matt 10 where Jesus tells us that if we lose our life for Him, we will gain it. Putting Him first does NOT mean that we wont have trouble, Jesus was very clear about this. But the one that endures to the end will be saved. Salvation is by grace, through faith and not by works. His grace alone will save those that confess Him as Lord.
For every why I am no longer lordship you can also find why I am no longer free grace.
They are both wrong.
Quit putting your trust in man and.listen to Jesus and the Apostles. Both camps are bending scripture.
i believe you didn't understand Romans 10:9. Study this verse alongside with Daniel Wallace Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics. And you will discover and understand that dispensationalist theologians are theologically wrong of their criticism of what they really called "Lordship salvation".
Non free grace theology?😮
Don't they know that they've been utterly deceived by Lucy in the sky, Lucifer, the great deceiver?👽
SIN: Sinfulness, sinner, sinful? that you still do. Put down pride, ego, hypocrisy and trust Jesus Christ, in accordance to 1Cor.15:1-4; Eph.2:8,9.
What are the good works we ought to be doing vs the bad works? We ought to be proclaiming the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ, in accordance to Pauline grace, not the evil fruit of a religious works based salvation, 2 Tim.2:15..KJV. The four gospels and James are not out marching ordes in the dispensation of the grace of God. Paul, our Apostle, the Apostle sent by God to the Gentiles.
You're free of lordship salvation and that's wonderful. Here's another area of freedom from calvinistic dogmas. Do we we get salvation with Christ death alone? No, it was only a component to salvation. Christ death brought Justification to ALL...For God So Loved the World. Before you call me a universalist. The second component is we must receive. And this will lead to additional Calvinist Presuppositions. For now explore Justification for all. Limited Atonement is also a heresy.
In amazement, I listened to you say (without overtly saying it) that the rich young man in Mat 19 was not selected (elected) for salvation by Jesus which means he was condemned to hell. Whereas, Jesus just wanted him to follow him and not this world, In context my Bible goes on to say that when we forsake the things of this world for His name's sake, we shall inherit everlasting life. Moreso, you somehow ignore or misinterpret the exact words of Jesus in John 3 regarding being born again. There is a choice given by Jesus in verse 16 that states in part "...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life". That's anyone! Not just a pre-selected group. How did you miss that as a Baptist? Your reason for converting to Reformed theology seems to be more related to the Armenian beliefs of churches such as the Nazarenes and not the Bible-believing IFB congregations. But I love you, brother. I am one of those "whosoever" people who responded to the Gospel and live now in joy. Blessings!
Good points but, for me, all this theo talk is like the saying, “Too much analysis leads to paralysis.” Jesus simply told Peter, “Build my church.” That’s where daily salvation is. All the navel-gazing stuff is unnecessary. Build the church and you’ll understand Lordship, belief, everything.
How ironic… the King Of Deception Doctrines Reformed/Calvinism, have taken you. The Kings of Saying that Faith is a work (Calvinism/Reformed) based on the wrong interpretation of Ephesians 2:8.
You read a man’s version of truth and THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU?
The only thing that makes sense is you’ve been deceived and you definitely do not follow the gospel.
Lordship salvation is works salvation.. Meaning if your not performing this means you’ve never been born again.
The truth is that Calvinist are judge and jury of those works.. which leads to this educational gospel from Calvinist.
Sad.. you couldn’t see the gospel of Jesus Christ without Calvinism.
PS.. there is a reason we have to be more than conquerors. Because we live in this world and until this flesh is removed our full victory in Jesus will be manifested.
Christ alone, the greatest work was done on the cross we are dead to sin it's our choice to walk in the flesh or spirit each day our new self (Holy Spirit) can not sin it's done one time event past, present and FUTURE...It's finished John 19:30, Satan's lie is to muddy the waters on the simple Gospel message to Christians and non Christians which is Grace plus. Faith alone, Christ alone TRUST and believe you don't even have stand on your head to believe (you can if you want) just BELIEVE and TRUST, God Bless keep preaching Grace, It's interesting that all the main preachers on the net are Calvinist, just saying...
Jesus came to save sinners and the only qualifying metric is "are you a sinner"?? Using human metrics like performance, dedication, and reformation are all human efforts that stand in distinct contradiction to the Scriptures. Lordship Salvation is pure heresy....
A christian's relationship with God and with Christ is a covenant relationship. This is why marriage is used so much in the Bible to represent the covenant we have. If you're married and your wife cheats on you she has broken covenant and that is completely unacceptable to you or wives with your husbands likewise.
Do you honestly believe it's any different with God? Moses had the law, and it never made anyone righteous. It was merely to keep people on the right path as a guide. Christ came and was way more severe than the law; you've heard it said, don't murder I tell you not to you don't hate, you've heard it said, don't be adulterous I tell you not to look with lust. Christ overcame sin in the body because he was obedient and how did he learn that obedience through suffering just like we do.
Because of his sacrifice, he can justify the ungodly, but the ungodly will not abide in him. Just because you have a thought that's bad doesn't mean you've sinned. An evil spirit can put a thought into your mind. We don't all sin every day in word thought and deed, that is a ridiculous excuse. When's the last time you cheated on your spouse? When's the last time you murdered someone? oh, you've never done that why not oh because you have self-control! how about that? You only exercise the self-control when you want to. That's a choice!
We are instructed not to spare the rod with our children. Why is that? If our children, sin in word thought indeed every day, and cannot stop, then why would we be told to discipline them? That is completely hypocritical.
Why don't you make the best choice you can today right now, because today is the day of your salvation make Jesus Christ your Lord and obey him, and show that you believe in him through your actions, and have a relationship with Christ and the father, and be worthy of salvation.
Throw the Calvinism manual and all the TULIPS in the trash. The dead analogy is exploited and exaggerated
It's very simple if you believe on Jesus Christ you are saved. The Holy Spirit comes in and dwells with you and pulls you away from sin some of it is immediate others is a lifetime progression. And leave what others are doing to God
Now go read the thief on the cross story. God bless you brother
Maybe you will keep reforming and leave Calvinism altogether! Then, you will truly be free. Then, you can teach the true Gospel that Jesus died for the WHOLE WORLD and whoever believes shall be saved.
Where does the Bible say we are saints and sinners at the same time? Not experience, what does God call us? Sinners will not stand in the judgement, Do not even sinners do the same? Jude speaks of ungodly sinners, are we Godly sinners? Paul said he was the chief and talked about his former life. James points out those who are not living right he says cleanse your hands you sinners. God doesn't call us sinners, regardless of experience or Martin Luther's statement? The Bible is what counts not the confessions or reformation theology. Ok, well what about Jesus saying he who does not lose his life will lose his soul in Mark 8:34-38? Is a disciple, believer, follower all the same thing ?( person ) The genuineness of a true faith is evident, and an ongoing desire to do the will of God. And yet the scriptures say he who believes will be saved. Jesus sometimes asked his disciples, do you Now believe? There are many professing believers who seem to make a point free grace by doing absolutely nothing at all. Don't serve in the body of Christ, don't confess Christ before others, ect.
Adhering to the "Saved by grace alone" or "Just believe" doctrine while throwing all the other verses out the window is a pretty gutsy move.
That would tell me that the apostle Paul was going around, preaching a gospel that goes beyond "faith alone". Paul said in Galatians 1:9 that everyone is accursed that preaches another gospel than the one he preached.
Taking only Acts 16:30-31 as the entirety of the bible would tell us that no repentance of any kind is needed for salvation.
Acts 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
In addition, only the person asking what he needed to do to be saved would need to "believe". This infers that the rest of his household could be complete atheists, yet would be saved.
Are we having a contest to water down the Word of God until it has absolutely no effect?
If so, the entire population of earth should read ONLY Titus 3:5 and see that Jesus already saved us by His mercy and we don't have to do a single thing.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
If we take this one verse literally, without reading any other in the bible, one could come to the conclusion that:
1) They don't even need to "Believe in Jesus" to be saved, because this verse doesn't say anything about belief.
2) They don't need to hear the Word
3) They don't need to read the Word
3) No relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is needed.
4) Hell is completely empty because everyone already got saved by His "mercy".
5) Sin as much as you want to, because repentance (to turn away from sin) wasn't specifically mentioned in this verse, either.
If this is the case, then ask yourself: Why is there even a judgment of man (Revelation 20:12-15)? Why is there a Gospel? And why is there even a Bible?
It's as if we one has come to the point of saying, "Sorry God, but I'm not going to obey Your Gospel because, after all, obeying is a work."
If one is going to take the "minimalist" doctrine to the nth degree, then you should end up with something similar to the above.
Take this approach and you will eventually find out that God is NOT playing around. He will not be mocked and ignored. In flaming fire, God will take vengeance on those that do not know Him and do not obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).
The Word of God commands us to make our calling and election "sure", not "minimal" (2 Peter 1:10). It also instructs us to study the word to show ourselves approved (2 Timothy 2:15).
The best policy is to read the ENTIRE Word of God for yourself to find out what the TRUE DOCTRINE and TRUE GOSPEL really is and then OBEY that gospel. If you are genuinely seeking God on this topic, He will most definitely fill in the blanks on any questions you have. All you have to do is ask Him in sincerity.
When the disciples preached the Gospel, what did the hearers of that Gospel actually do?
1) They repented.
2) They got baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.
3) They received the Promise of the Father - The baptism of the Holy Ghost.
If a person truly BELIEVES the gospel, they will OBEY the gospel. In addition, once that individual experiences the grip of sin unravelling and being removed from their life and the POWER of the Holy Ghost living inside, they will NOT be ashamed of that gospel, even as Paul declared in Romans 1:16.
God provided the plan of salvation for all men, women and children when He was under no obligation to do so. This is the very demonstration of His grace and mercy.
Arguing against Lordship salvation is not the issue here. The real problem is that one can argue so hard against works that they take it over the edge and completely IGNORE and therefore REJECT the instructions given from the Gospel, stating that those are works as well. THIS IS DECEPTION OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.
Do yourself a HUGE favor. Don't take reckless chances with your salvation. OBEY the TRUE GOSPEL.
Wow. That was deep and well said. I agree with everything you said
your all over the place first we must understand the difference between the word repent or repentance and the words repent ""OF YOUR SINS "" THE SINGLE WORD REPENT MEANS TO CHANGE YOUR MIND!! thats it!!!!!!!! what ever words after that are what your changing your mind about , no where referring to salvation does the bible say repent of your sins , it says repent and believe the gospel , which is to say change your mind and believe what Christ has done for you , absolutely nothing to do with sin or behavior!! you add ''off your sins'' to fit your bad doctrine!!
next issue is you mix the message given to Israel with the message given to the body of Christ, and thats why your all over the place! this is the body of christ doctrine found in only pauls writings!! many mysteries were revealed to Paul only ! and he wasn't converted until after acts 9
Titus3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Philippians 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Romans1:17
For the gospel reveals the righteousness of God that comes by faith from start to finish, just as it is written: “ The righteous will live by faith.”
Romans 4:5
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Romans 4:6
And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him…
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
Romans 8:39
nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
colossians1:20
and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.
psalm103:10
He has not dealt with us according to our sins or repaid us according to our iniquities.
psalm 103:12
As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
2 corrin 5:19
For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation.
then we must understand what it means to be justified and imputed the righteousness of Christ not our own!!!
@@wolfwatchers you don't understand the gospel my friend. And why did you stop Romans 8:1 short?? There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH.....
Nobody is saying we work for our salvation. We are completely forgiven once we believe. But as a result, we are transformed and we WILL have good works. We are given a new nature. We are indwelt with the spirit of God which molds us into the image of Christ. To say there is no change after salvation is the false gospel
@@heyjaja72 no ones saying there's no change we are saying its not a factor in salvation,
in order to be in christ you must believe the gospel! not change , do you believe a 11 year old can be saved?? will you see a completely transformed life !! in an 11 year old?
you get on a real slippery slope when you start measuring peoples change and or sins after they put there trust in christ its not up to us to determine whose saved if they believe the gospel their saved..!! lets say a man was a serial killer rapist and he trusted the gospel got saved now he just lies cheats and steals but the spirit has done a mighty transformation from a murdering rapist , but we only see a liar cheater and stealer and say he cant be saved he does all these things , point is we don't know , we cant judge, so we should not!
@@wolfwatchers but if what you say is true, then that means Jesus was wrong. Jesus said a good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree can't bear good fruit. He said we will know them by their fruit. Yet your saying we can't know either way. A man can live in open sin and rebellion but we must still believe he's saved because that man claimed he believed?? This is against scripture. Paul told the Corinth church to examine themselves when they were living in unrepentant sin.
Self-examination is never about asking have I done enough? To begin with, we have done nothing to earn our salvation. That question is very man-centered. Instead, the premise of Lordship salvation is that our new nature is predominantly focused on Christ and God's holiness. As we are more sanctified, this prioritization of focus will become more and more evident to ourselves and to those around us. In light of that, the regenerated Christian will recognize the need to regularly repent as a result of regular self examination based on reflecting on God's word and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Paul is clear on this in Romans 7, "oh wretched man that I am". If it weren't for Lordship Salvation, one would not examine themselves period because they would still be in love with the world. Lordship Salvation makes sense to me because the opposite sounds like liberalism and lowering our view on the seriousness of sin.