The Prove Yourself Gospel | Theocast
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- It is Reformation Week. And here at Theocast, in the tradition of the Reformation, we always seek to clarify the gospel. When we do, people respond in somewhat predictable ways. "Well, you do believe that Christians are required to obey, right?" "Obedience is required for salvation." Are these questions indicative of misunderstanding? How should we respond to these kinds of questions? Jon and Justin double down on union with Christ by faith in today's episode.
Semper Reformanda: Jon and Justin discuss the vitriol that often meets the clear proclamation of the gospel. The guys talk quite a bit about holiness and how many people's definitions of holiness are off-centered.
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#reformedtheology #gospel #faithalone
“The man on the middle cross said I can come!”
I think that's my favorite Begg clip of all time.
Yea, all that was asked was will you Remember me in your kingdom> so right there shows that the thief had believed the words crist had spoken, and that's all that's required 😊 BELIEFE 😊
Amen.
Belief in what? He didn't just believe what Christ said. He believed Jesus promised eternal life. He died for forgiveness of sins which is the barrier that keeps us from receiving eternal life. But, believing in forgiveness of sins is of no consequence if we don't believe in the promise of eternal life. His LIFE is what is the power that saves. If He never rose from the dead we would be forgiven, but still hellbound. That is what baptism symbolizes. We believe we died with Christ, and we believe we will be resurrected to eternal life. Believing we are forgiven but not believing we HAVE eternal life is to believe half the Gospel, which is really ANOTHER gospel. We either have eternal life or we don't. And, contrary to what many think, eternal means eternal. The Bible says whoever is born of the Spirit is born of incorruptible seed that lasts forever.
@@graftme3168 This is great. Thank you for sharing.
For years I thought pietism was this great way of thinking and living and boy did this lead me down years of anxiety, depression and hurting others. You guys are “really” helping understand. 11 years and I can finally rest. I am sensitive to this kind of teaching now. It’s so dangerous!
rest in Christ
Same same
I can only relate to you my own experience. Mere moments after I accepted Christ as my Savior, I KNEW I should be water baptized- I had no
idea why or the methodology at that time. As well, I KNEW I would be coming to church services on a regular basis.
The point is The Holy Spirit immediately "impelled" (not compelled) a change in my life and behavior.
My salvation was a supernatural event. Suddenly the scriptures were opened to my understanding.
I have not always been faithful. I was actually unchurched for 6 years from 2011 to 2017. I was saved in 1985. Wnen ever I would doubt my salvation
all I did was look back to that day that I was born again, and my assurance was renewed.
These guys are by far the best on truth that sets free. They got it.
Hearing this good news makes me want to be holy, it does, the gospel is anything but antinomian on the contrary it lights the desire for holiness.
Absolutely! When I truly reflect on and better understand what it is that Jesus has done, I can't help but fall at his feet and worship. It makes me want to obey, not disobey!!
I love your message, so I'm longing to hear more scripture throughout your long talks.
I just found you guys today and I can’t stop listening! You two have, in my opinion, seen the forest through the trees. In three podcasts, you have helped me make sense of my confusions with the pastors who I love and appreciate, but who have confused me to no end concerning the assurance of salvation. The Pipers, the MacArthurs, the Washers, et al. Have left me with a burden so heavy that has at times, made me wonder if I was ever even saved. They have robbed me of my joy and have made the gospel a burden too heavy to bear.
Yankee Arnold - once saved always saved the final word
Brothers, thank you for this! I am reminded of Titus 2:11-14, which tells us that the grace of God *teaches* us to deny ungodliness and to live righteously. Then Paul points our focus on our blessed hope, the return of Christ. It's like a "grace sandwich."
This is called living in the truth of the gospel!! The just will live by!! Without faith it is impossible to please GOD and HE is a rewarder of those who diligently seek HIM!! Love you brothers and press on in the gospel!!
What's amazing is you can't and won't bear good fruit unless you're object of salvation is Christ.
*your
This is an honest reformed podcast. Most reformed preaching isn’t like this. It’s whatever they say using Bible verses out of context. For anyone reading this comment please! This is a trust worthy podcast. It’s hard to listen to any kind of teaching on RUclips these days.
I know I always say it
But once again so timely!! Just hearing the Gospel is so refreshing !!…..all the naysayers just show what you teach and preach is God glorifying!!!
Keep fighting the good fight of faith giving us Christ and the true Gospel!!
I got some real clarity on the comments about John 3:16!! Thanks be to God🙏❤️
Always encouraged! Thanks for sharing
Brothers this verse keeps me from contaminating Christ's accomplished Gospel that God has lovingly and mercifully given as a Gift to be enjoyed not earned. I can thankfully and humbly proclaim it's His Glory not mine to take, It's His person not of my person, It's His power alone. Because Jesus HAD by HIMSELF PURGED our sins.
Hebrews 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Thanks you so much for your labor, giving us Christ :) Praise to be Him alone!! God bless you guys and keep doing what you doing :)
I praise God for what you said brother @22.20 in regarding our pride not God leading us in taking the focus off Jesus and putting it back on ourselves! I say Amen..God guided me to your channel only a week ago after intense discussions with a brother who was intent on putting those He spoke to back in bondage and under the curse by quoting scripture obedience verses as if they justified him..I told him while myself fearing God that he was sanctimonious and pious and i then came across your channel speaking on Pietism a theological term which I'd never heard of before.. now there's not much you can do except pray for a brother who judges everyone else by his own standard of works and forgets quickly that pruning will surely take place by God and He will find hes tested in a dry season and have to lean on Christ completely in his weakness.. this hard lesson happens to us all.. and we must not lose sight of what God says ..if it is Grace then it is NO LONGER Works otherwise Grace is no longer Grace.. Christ alone.. we work because it is by Christs work alone we are saved we do not work to assist Christ in saving us when we didn't get our hands and feet nailed to the cross! .. Help us Lord..
Brothers I will not shy away from saying that if anyone is preaching Lordship salvation, Federal vision or any gospel where works are a requirement for our glorification then IT IS another gospel.. plain and simple..if not by Grace alone then its a false gospel .. friends should not cause us to tip toe around the truth🙏🏿
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2nd Corinthians 5:19)
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (Romans 5:10)
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (Ephesians 1:13)
Grace and Peace.
"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." -- Paul
@@PETERJOHN101 He didn't say work FOR your Salvation. He himself said by grace are we saved through Faith, and that it is the Gift of God. Is Paul contradicting himself? Of course not
Adhering to the "Saved by grace alone" or "Just believe" doctrine while throwing all the other verses out the window is a pretty gutsy move.
That would tell me that the apostle Paul was going around, preaching a gospel that goes well beyond "faith alone". Paul said in Galatians 1:9 that everyone is accursed that preaches another gospel than the one he preached.
Taking Acts 16:30-31 as the entirety of the bible would tell us that no repentance of any kind is needed for salvation.
Acts 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
In addition, only the person asking what he needed to do to be saved would need to "believe". This infers that the rest of his household could be complete atheists, yet would be saved.
Are we having a contest to cherry-pick scripture and water down the Word of God until it has absolutely no effect?
If so, the entire population of earth should read ONLY Titus 3:5 and see that Jesus already saved us by His mercy and we don't have to do a single thing.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
If we take this one verse literally, without reading any other in the bible, one could come to the conclusion that:
1) They don't even need to "Believe in Jesus" to be saved, because this verse doesn't say anything about belief.
2) They don't need to hear the Word
3) They don't need to read the Word
3) No relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit is needed.
4) Hell is completely empty because everyone already got saved by His "mercy".
5) Sin as much as you want to, because repentance (to turn away from sin) wasn't specifically mentioned in this verse, either.
If this is the case, then ask yourself: Why is there even a judgment of man (Revelation 20:12-15)? Why is there a Gospel? And why is there even a Bible?
It's as if one has come to the point of saying, "Sorry Jesus, but I'm not going to obey Your Gospel because, after all, obeying is a work."
If one is going to take the "minimalist" doctrine to the nth degree, then you should end up with something similar to the above.
Take this approach and you will eventually find out that God is NOT playing around. He will not be mocked and ignored. In flaming fire, God will take vengeance on those that do not know Him and do not obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).
The Word of God commands us to make our calling and election "sure", not "minimal" (2 Peter 1:10). It also instructs us to study the word to show ourselves approved (2 Timothy 2:15).
The best policy is to read the ENTIRE Word of God for yourself to find out what the TRUE DOCTRINE and TRUE GOSPEL really is and then OBEY that gospel. If you are genuinely seeking God on this topic, He will most definitely fill in the blanks on any questions you have. All you have to do is ask Him in sincerity.
When the early disciples preached the Gospel, what did the hearers of that Gospel actually do?
1) They repented.
2) They got baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.
3) They received the Promise of the Father - The baptism of the Holy Ghost.
If a person truly BELIEVES the gospel, they will OBEY the gospel. In addition, once that individual experiences the grip of sin unravelling and being removed from their life and the POWER of the Holy Ghost living inside, they will NOT be ashamed of that gospel, even as Paul declared in Romans 1:16.
God provided the plan of salvation for all men, women and children when He was under no obligation to do so. This is the very demonstration of His grace and mercy.
Arguing against Lordship salvation is not the issue here. The real problem is that one can argue so hard against works that they take it over the edge and completely IGNORE and therefore REJECT the instructions given from the Gospel, stating that those are works as well. THIS IS DECEPTION OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.
Do yourself a HUGE favor. Don't take reckless chances with your salvation. OBEY the TRUE GOSPEL.
Yes there’s much truth in everything you said. I’ve pointed this out to them before. The very reason many reject “works” is because they do not see hear or understand the works God is beseeching us unto, namely mercy love & forgiveness. Every work God has freely done unto us we are to freely do unto others, that they might know Him, the true God. We are His workmanship & He is revealed through us. WE are the gospel.
“Look everyone, God is not mad at me! He’s not against me! He doesn’t hate me! He doesn’t hold my sins against me! I have been reconciled. I have peace with God. He is full of love & mercy. He is good to me. I am now justified to be with Him & know Him eternally. Look what the Lord has done!”
This is no burden! I delight in this gospel. I delight in loving others. I delight in forgiving them. Showing them mercy. Being patient with them. Showing them the way to eternal life & justification & peace with God. How can I withhold this great & precious news?! How can I not show the same love & compassion my God has had on me?!
Amen to you both
I agree with everything you said brother.
I do agree that when people argue against works (most of the time for good reasons, to counteract legalism) they end up overcorrecting and going to the opposite end of the spectrum where faith is all but an intellectual assent of some facts about Jesus. These people are usually found in the _Free Grace Theology_ camp or Hyper-Gracers.
I'm new to your ministry and am interested to hear from reformed brothers who seemingly depart from many other reformed brothers that I admire and emulate, when it comes to preaching and lifestyle. I've never heard anyone other Arminians say they reject Lordship Salvation. I just downloaded your free ebook and I truly want to give what you say a fair shake. If I'm missing biblical truth for sake of piety, then I'm ready to repent of that.
We cannot enter Heaven by our good works, we enter by accepting through faith the gift of salvation given with grace.
But we can walk away from salvation by deliberately sinning, as to sin is to turn away from God.
"Take up your cross and follow me" does not mean the same thing as "obey satan when he lures you to sin".
Good works, like feeding the hungry, done with ones own salvation in mind, would be filth before the Lord. He knows the motivation of our hearts.
A Christian would be movitated to do good works because they want to do the right thing, and that means to emulate Christ, who was and is compassionate.
This was such a great episode!
Thanks!
One of the things pietists confuse is the definition of faith. They really do think they preach salvation by Christ throufh faith alone. The problem is they have a more psychological than theological belief that if you have fait in something than you will act in accordance with that faith, or else you must not really have faith. This is an incorrect belief. People are imperfect and on many occasions foolish. How many of us have made a choice we knew wasn't good because it was more comfortable? This happens to most of us daily in small things. It is possible to believe, trust, have faith in somethin while failing to act in accordance with that belief 100% of the time.
But the problem with that view is that true saving faith is accompanied with the Holy Spirit who enables us to know the will of God. So to imply that a professing Christian can fundamentally fail to live in accordance to biblical faith, is not only contradicting the new nature of a believer, but also contradicting the power of God and his mercy.
I am not going to the opposite side of the spectrum either where a person can "live" perfectly as the legalists imply. All I am saying is that, while never perfect, a true believer will bear the fruit of the spirit and will undergo sanctification.
Also, our actions are directly correlated to what we believe. so no, implying that acting in accordance to our faith is not a psychological view of faith.
MacArthur’s language of “invitation” which has invaded every crack of every church trying to soften the Bible’s message (along with talk of mistakes instead of sins, brokenness (which implies fixable) vs. corruption).
The Bible commands us to believe (which may generate faith in our heart in the hearing) vs. “invites” us to believe, implying a call on our will to make a choice. The “work of God” according to Jesus is to “believe the one whom God has sent”. And in itself, is not a work because believing is a gift of God.
There is only one obedience, believe in the One in whom He sent. All roads lead to Jesus; I am the way, the truth and the life. If you have a question, filter it out through that. REST in Jesus, if you are not at rest, you are trusting in self, aka looking at your willpower, your broken life, your failures, your efforts, your ability, your shoulds, coulds, oughts, YOU!,
John 6:28-29. To know the Works of God.
John 6:40. To know God’s will.
Thanks!
Pastors tend to give an almost unreachable standard for assurance.
Faith without works is dead
Ok. What's your point ? Are you implying that they claim there can be faith without works? If so, you didn't watch the video. Also, they did an episode on that.
So I've looked on your page. I've seen Smoke Two Joints by Sublime, a clip from Family Guy episode of Stewie puking on Lois, Hashpipe by Weezer, a few Bloodhound Gang songs, and a slew of other secular stuff. Dont get me wrong I listen to some of that stuff too, but the point is if your putting James 2 in the context of salvation, then why isent their anything about Jesus on you channel if you promote faith plus works?
The bible does say,study to show yourself approved.
Okay, having just listened to this, I think what was tripping me up was the idea that you reject "Lordship Salvation." This may just be semantics, because you affirmed over and over again, that the Gospel is agreeing with Jesus about who He is, what He says about your sin, and believing on Him as the only one who took away your sins on the cross. The evidence that you've been born again will be obedience, but it should never be the primary source of assurance. We receive that by keeping focused on Christ. He gives us the strength to keep running. I didn't hear anything I disagree with and I don't think teachers like Sproul, MacArthur, or Begg would disagree either. I can see how some of the statements from Washer, Piper, or Lawson could maybe lead to folks looking at their own shadows instead of looking to Christ, but even then I would say that, when the rubber meets the road, their theology proper would still be in line with I heard taught in this podcast, which I wholeheartedly agree with.
The question for me is this:
Is sin a moral thing or is it a general state/ condition of a person ?
Or both ?
Is a person a sinner because of his moral sins or does he sin in a moral way because he is a sinner ?
Is someone bad because of his bad works or does he act in a bad way because he is bad ?
Doesn‘t Jesus say that all impurity comed from the heart of man ?
So do you have „access“ to your heart ?
I guess not…
Would you say a church or pastor that teaches “principles” as a way of doing things plus heavy on you being committed to the Lord as pietism? I’m just trying to figure how this stronghold happened in me to begin with.
I believe it is necessary to discern the difference between "watching oneself walk," (pride, vainglory) versus walking in humility, or self-knowledge, in relation to Jesus Christ and His Commandments.
The first is condemned; The second is necessary.
Does one, having begun an endurance race, take a seat and declare himself a victor, or does he struggle daily for the crown?
if you have to struggle daily for salvation then salvation is not free and it’s certainly by works then. Does the Bible contradict itself? Salvation can not be a reward for labor if it’s a free gift. That is spiritual double mindedness. You are trying to apply Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 9 to salvation rather than understanding Paul is referring to rewards (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)
@@medic4christ777
"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling." -- Paul
Oops.
@@PETERJOHN101 Try reading the entire passage in context... Oops.
@@PETERJOHN101Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling means to work outwardly what God has put in you. It is not working FOR salvation. The very next verse explains that.
Running the race is not for salvation either. It is about ministry. An athlete runs because he is an athlete, not to become one. And, he can train and discipline himself at his own pace and as he desires. But, when he runs the race, there are specific rules to follow and you can be disqualified from running the race, but you are still an athlete.
The believer's POSITION is in heaven.
His CONDUCT is as a walk.
His SERVICE is as running a race.
So can a person ask the Lord to make him or her born again?
The moment you believe a 'truly' saved person WILL show works, you will look for works as evidence and try to prove yourself salvation to yourself. Instead of looking at God's work and promises.
You can make the distinction of 'it's God who saves and your works are merely evidence of that'. However, when you imply that you can also deceive yourself into thinking you're saved by believing, then there's no way of knowing whether you're saved except by seeing enough works. Because apparently you can somehow believe without God accepting that belief and considering you righteous.
And will anyone ever see enough works in himself? It becomes a matter of 'well I guess I have a better chance than my neighbour'.
The ONLY way to know you are saved is to believe that Jesus already paid your wages for sin! EitherJesus paid them, or you can pay them, which means eternal damnation! You can't have it both ways. You must choose grace! THAT'S the Gospel!
Hey guys, could you please explain/ explore the idea of ongoing habitual sin and assurance of salvation? I believe in Jesus atonement for my sin and his righteousness on my behalf. I do struggle to see where my joy might come from when I’m constantly finding myself doing the sin that I hate so much.
Joy can come from anything you want as long as that thing isn't sinful. Humans naturally find joy in many things God made for us to have joy in.
Paul himself struggled with habitual sin. Romans 6.
@@corbinbrosneck790
If by habitual you mean willful sin, Paul did not struggle with habitual sin. Paul kept the commandments and said those who violate the commandments will perish. Galatians 5:19-21.
I suspect you may be talking about sexual immorality? I would make a distinction between that and masturbation, as there has never been a Jewish prohibition regarding that. If it's the former, however, you need to be baptized with fire and begin to avoid sexual sin. Jesus in Mark 10:19 says we must keep the commandments to inherit eternal life.
@@PETERJOHN101then you are no longer saved by grace & the finished work of Jesus. Dont even throw the last half of james 2 to me cause I'm saved by faith & belief in Christ & im not under the law
@@rocknrollcowboy1620
Hi I just wanted to remind you that Jesus said he who sins is a slave to sin. Fleeing from sin does not mean your under the law it means you love Jesus that's why he said if you love me keep my commandments. Just saying this is not a argument, it's only my message to you Godbless brother
How is someone supposed to know they are truly saved since they can’t base it on ANYTHING they do or will do? Or even their performance?
I can only relate to you my own experience. Mere moments after I accepted Christ as my Savior, I KNEW I should be water baptized- I had no
idea why or the methodology at that time. As well, I KNEW I would be coming to church services on a regular basis.
The point is The Holy Spirit immediately "impelled" (not compelled) a change in my life and behavior.
My salvation was a supernatural event. Suddenly the scriptures were opened to my understanding.
I have not always been faithful. I was actually unchurched for 6 years from 2011 to 2017. I was saved in 1985. Wnen ever I would doubt my salvation
all I did was look back to that day that I was born again, and my assurance was renewed.
"He who comes to me, I will in no wise cast out." Are you come, jsaops
...Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
@@lilacDaisy111 I do
Luke 6:46-49
How many works should you show per day to know youre saved?
It's not about the amount of works the reason why Christian's do works is because they are saved not cause their trying to be saved. We are saved by faith and grace alone lest any man should boast.
1 work. Believe on the Son.
How many works should a Christian stay away from per day, to make sure he is not being self-righteous?
I have had very good explanations on the following verses from Kim Riddlebarger and The Gospel Gal but was wondering if you guys would also give an explanation of what these verses mean that say "obey the Gospel". Thank you.
Romans 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
2 Thessalonians 1:8
in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
1 Peter 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
ROM 10:16 defines it. Obeying the gospel is believing the good news that Jesus died for us that all who put their trust in him will be cleared of their sin and given eternal life.
I’m currently a member of a church that doesn’t have a clear creedal confession statement. It’s non denominational that leans more Pentecostal and Dispensational in practice. I’ve been with them for over 2 decades and As I’ve studied I’ve come to a more reformed or covenantal interpretation and view of scripture and practice. The charismatic expression is getting hard to stomach, but I have long time friendships there, as well as my wife. I’ve tried to have dialogue, but it gets shut down. They come to the conversation without trying to reason. As pastor’s what would you say be the best course of action I should take?
leave
Leave, that's a church with clearly a false Gospel
My dear brother, take heart. Having been raised 5th generation Assembles of God, I spent over 30 years in a similar state, only becoming convinced of the Doctrines of Grace and the needs for creeds, confessions, and catechism a mere 5 or so years ago. That said, when I first saw the multitude of problems with our charismatic (or should I say charis-manic?) church, my wife didn't see any of the problems that I did. I greatly wanted us to leave together in agreement as a team. So, I took one of the issues and over the course of several months, slowly and peaceably took the time to show my wife why the issue was problematic, allowing for any and all questions and concerns she raised. She eventually saw the particular issue as grounds for leaving that church, and in the three years since then we've grown much as a couple, and she has also been awakened to the other issues that existed within the churches in which she and I were raised. All that said, look at this as an opportunity to glorify God through leading your house well, and as a chance for both you and your wife to grow together as The Spirit leads!
@@jlinscott5174
I took a look at your channel and you promote Satanist content but here you are pretending to be a follower of Christ?
@@wellactually21
Oh, I'm sure you are the expert on churches you never attended.
A pastor in Idaho calls that "probation"!!
These two pastors are being too careful with their words. They say Piper's 2-step salvation is not another gospel. But it really is. I wonder if Paul would be that careful.
Listen again, you heard wrong.
Matthew 7:12-29 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Love is one of the fruits of the gitts. Haters do not have the gift.
This sounds like the Andrew Farley ministries. Back and front loading works salvation.
Farley does not teach works salvation...front or backloaded.
Farley dosent teach works based salvation, he is a free grace gospel teacher
What does work have anything to do with being born of the Spirit? Did you have to work to be born into the world as a human? Do you have to work daily to stay a human?
what about the verse saying "examine yourselves to see if you are in the faith"?
2 Cor 13:5 is misused and taken out of context. It becomes the opposite of what it means. In the first four verses, Paul was talking about the fact that there were people in the church of Corinth who were questioning whether what he said about the faith was accurate. Whether he truly was an apostle of Jesus. Verse 3 "Since you seek proof that Christ is speaking in me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you." They were examining and testing him. He is saying stop examining me and question yourselves. Not to examine if we are born again, but rather, are you walking in the faith. If you look to your works to assurance that you are saved, you guarantee you will never be assured because all of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
@@OurVictoryinJesus So why does so many pastors preach as if you need to look at yourself to see if youre truly following Christ? Cause if youre not following Christ, then youre not saved. Christians are disciples, but if you're not willing to give up all to be a disciple then youre not worthy. Faith without works is dead, not saying works save but your works might prove you have salvation. I understand this video talks about pietism but true christians not supposed to be living any sort of way. I ask myself am i a sheep or a goat.
Thank you for this podcast. I am confused, however, by what you mean by using The Law as a way to guide your living. Are you referring to the Old Testament Law?
Moral law that reflects God’s character. The 10 commandments. LBCF 19
What do we do with the verse that tells us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith? Isn't that assessment based on obedience flowing from our faith?
Paul was defending himself. They were questioning his validity and so he asked them to examine themselves. if he is false then are they not really saved? but because they are then that validates his position.
Because one who is in the faith will receive another who is in the faith. If you are not in the faith you will not accept others who are in the faith.
The grave error of Arminianism is not only in contributed salvatory agency assigned to men, it is also in the rejection of the totality of our depravity; we are spiritually *dead* before salvation!
How are these two reformed?
Right on!
CRITIQUE THIS:
Am I wrong if I consider a dogmatic teacher of losing salvation someone who is not a brother in Christ?
If someone has trusted in the blood and sacrifice of Jesus for their salvation, then they are a brother/sister even if they disagree on other doctrines.
@@danielbu2611ok so they are not a brother in christ.
@@elunico13 I wrote that poorly. They ARE a brother as long as what makes them a brother exists, their faith in Jesus.
@@danielbu2611 Gotcha. Thank you
Faith=Salvation+moral works as evidence. "You will know them by their fruit". A professed believer who lives a willfull unapologetic and unrepentant sinful life identicle to the world and culture has not been truly converted.
Chris, I agree with you at the core, but you will receive a lot of heat and backlash from the antinomian camp for saying that. Also to prepare you for the battle, that passage you referenced is easily refuted since antinomians say that it is only referring to "bad teaching".
People also conflate Salvation and Discipleship.
Yes, some people conflate Justification and Discipleship, while others bifurcate them. Both are wrong.
Justification and Discipleship, while separate, always go hand in hand. That is very hard for people to understand and end up with the two errors stated earlier.
When the distinction and relationship between faith and works is properly understood, people will know that:
- our salvation is *not* dependent on our performance
- True faith will inevitably result in good works (although never perfect)
Where in the bible does it say that the gentile follows the law to live by? Is not the law for the Jew and conscience of the gentile? The law is great and really means to love one another as does our conscience.
The issue is, if before Jesus we got worse under law/conscience what makes us think after salvation that we can follow it? Do we not rely on him to do these things through us just in the same way we believed in him for salvation. It reminds me of the scripture in the same way we received him, we walk in him. So what is it to us to look at law/conscience to obey? That is our efforts and not living by faith. We cannot overcome flesh and paradigm programming so something here makes no sense.
Ya know it just dawned on me you can be unborn physically like you never existed you can’t be unborn once your born again spiritually either.
But you can fall away and be condemned along with the hypocrites. Matthew 24:47-51.
@@PETERJOHN101Either eternal life is eternal or it isn't. Whoever is born of the Spirit is born of incorruptible seed that lasts forever.
Sorry but our agreement with God is not the gospel. Because even in that definition it’s all about you. The gospel is that Christ died for sinners and he rose from the dead so that all who believe in him are justified apart from works of the law. At best our agreement with God is faith but the object of our faith is in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Slight nuance but it matters to make that distinction.
The very suggestion that obedience to the words of Jesus could be displeasing to God is a clear mark of apostasy.
Are you in the Hebrew Roots movement?
Hebrews 3: 7-19.
Be believing, and not unbelieving; If you have the grace of God, demonstrate it with the works of God, of righteousness, and not unrighteousness; Hold fast the promise of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and sin not, unless a worse thing come unto you.
For if you have been justified by grace through faith, and your sins washed away in Baptism, do you then return to sin? When you came to faith in Jesus Christ, did you not renounce the works of Satan? Repent, therefore, as many times as you fall, and seek the face of God, because He is quick to forgive the penitent.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Wash your couch with tears, like King David, and call upon the name of the Lord. Is there not one baptism for the remission of sins? Hasten therefore to confession, unless the Lord comes when you do not expect Him, and He find you in the midst of sin.
If your conscience disturbs you, do not lull yourself to sleep. Settle your debt first, then go to the altar to make your offering.
1 Cor 11: 23-34
Examine yourself, unless you partake of the Lord unworthily.
Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. - John 6:53
"But seek first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you."
"Repent, therefore, the Kingdom of heaven is at hand!"
Then your depending on your works instead of the finished work of Jesus. When someone who is in Christ sins, the Holy Spirit will take care of that... oh and grace, definatly grace. So don't depend on your own works to save you, but believe the shed blood of Jesus that washes away all sin & makes you new.
God bless my friend & trust in Jesus
@@rocknrollcowboy1620
As I understand it, the works of Jesus Christ will be finished in us when we pass from this life.
The journey begins and ends with the Cross, and we will be crucified with Him if we take up our Cross and follow Him.
There will be struggle, and we are expected to keep His Commandments. If we fail to love our fellow man, we will be shown the door, a la Matthew 25.
In Jesus Christ is our strength, and it is His grace that allows us to do the good that we have been called to do.
The Corinthians obeyed really well
.... 😕
Godly sorrow led to their repentance. Remember the first letter to the Corinthians emphasized love (as defined in chapter 13). I believe this is what led to their repentance. They finally understood love was the vital thing.
I’m sure you brothers (theocast) are smart , but you do know that’s what Lordship salvation is essentially saying , you’re teaching Lordship without calling lordship
How?
@@calibre722 Wrong.
You're not understanding one or the other or both.
@@corbinbrosneck790 I'd say you're the one not understanding.
@@corbinbrosneck790
Most lordshipers, rc , white , washer, Lawson , baucham , all would say that works play no part in our justification, but that a justified person will show it , not that he has to prove it , but they will walk with God . No major lorshiper say that works play any part In justification
23:26 hmmm
There is a difference between The Kingdom of Heaven and The Kingdom of God. Don’t conflate the two. One can never be taken from you the other you can forfeit. Like your crowns 👑 you may receive to lay at Jesus feet. Satan will do anything for you not to receive your crowns. And there are Twelve Mysteries of God written in the Bible also.
You guys make no sense, we agree with God about our sin but we think we can remain in sin. Anyone who agrees that they sin are trapped in sin and can't stop, thus why we know we need to be saved. How can we be saved then put effort forth in stopping what we were trapped in before? This is us again trying, something not right here.
I hope you two read this. You guys are smart enough that you should let go a little of church history, which we need and love, and interpret as the Spirit guides you. You two are the closest thing to what i consider real orthodoxy wxcept for a few things whith regards to sanctification, because of history. Time, the whole thing is time. God's timing and ours, and we always think He is slow. Sanctification can ve a difficult process and for some takes years, and those of us that are caring for the sheep ought to remember how He treats us, gentle and in love. Don't commit sexual sin and avoid meat sacrificed to idols, pretty simple. Hating sin, especially those sins we "cherish" takes time. Paul was still in Peter's face, what, 20ish years after Paul's conversion? Fake professions are from lack of clarity on what do i do to ve saved, and what to do now that u believe.
John 6:28-29. To show the Works of God.
John 6:40. To show God’s will.
The more I hear people trying to rationale this viewpoint, the more they sound confused. You say 'Don't add anything to the gospel' but then you later say 'If you agree with God about your sin and his solution for it' So the Gospel is that Christ died on the cross for our sins and that he rose again three days later' That's it - nothing else. It says that you have to believe it only. Not that you have to agree with it. So you're adding to the Gospel there. Which is fine. It's a hard topic to discuss without adding to it. So if you believe it but keep sinning - I don't think that is right. And that is the danger of belief only. There has to be some evidence of faith. For example, if you're LGBTQ and you believe that Christ died for your sins and rose again, if you're not willing to move away from that sin, then I just can't believe you are saved. but according to the Gospel alone, you will be.
So it then becomes a little more than just the gospel. it then becomes the overarching message of the scriptures as a whole which is to love God with all your heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbour as yourself (Jesus himself said this, not me!). And we probably all need to work on those two a fair bit.
Yes you must turn from your sin, but if you are saved...just keep your eyes on Jesus and he will change and sanctify you in his time.
@@terfybrown9349 I see what you are saying, and yes, you are correct, but you're adding to the message of just faith in Christ will save you. You are adding and saying that you need to keep your eyes on him as well. And that is fine, I agree. But your message is contradictory to the message of faith alone. I believe that faith needs to be built. I believe that you do that by doing good works because you love God with all your heart, soul and mind and want to do good for him. Just saying 'I believe in Christ' and not really believing it is not a method of salvation. Christ will look deep into our hearts when it comes to judgment time and he'll want us to be ready.
Agree with and believe are synonymous concepts.
@@corbinbrosneck790 agree - have the same opinion about something; concur.
faith - strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
Not the same
@@corbinbrosneck790 And I can see why what I have written can be confusing, but let me expand if I may. Someone can say they have faith in Christ, but not agree with Christ that they should take up their cross and follow him, love God with all their heart soul and mind and love their neighbour as themselves.
Sorry but our agreement with God is not the gospel. Because even in that definition it’s all about you. The gospel is that Christ died for sinners and he rose from the dead so that all who believe in him are justified apart from works of the law.
It's not the prove yourself Gospel, it's the sacrifice yourself Gospel.
The non-sense stops about 7 minutes in. 7:00
You should look up Ryle C. Ryle A call to Holiness Episcopalian Puritans had good points.
Now I do not accept once saved always. Works do not save us. But those who love God will do good works because they are saved. Not to be saved.
I am a Seventh day Adventist. I am saved. But I can choose to be lost.
I am saved.
God is love.
cathloc way of thinking