Script & sources at: www.thenandnow.co/2023/05/31/bourdieu-cultural-capital-the-love-of-art-hip-hop/ ► Sign up for the newsletter to get concise digestible summaries: www.thenandnow.co/the-newsletter/ ► Why Support Then & Now? www.patreon.com/user/about?u=3517018
Why is it astounding, because it’s black art? Because there are limitations placed on the prosperity that Black people or dark skinned people in America can achieve? You seem to also be a victim of habitus.
Found this channel because I needed easier understanding of Bourdieu, I'm very grateful now because this channel is the cultural capital I need right now. / Will probably binge watch everything if I can.
You always do a great job balancing the pacing of your videos with the complexity level-I appreciate that they are not dumbed down, and that you don’t sound like you’re on meth. Keep up the great work, my friend-your videos are always a pleasant surprise.
Ok, mentioning hip-hop drew me to the video, I'll admit it. Even though I like Bourdieu, "hip-hop" was the factor that made me click on the notification.
Great video as usual. Thank You Can you please do a video on something related to Edward Said. since your channel lately seems to have become oriented towards the Cultural Turn in the humanities and social Sciences, Said's understanding of Cultural Imperialism, Secular Humanism and the role of the Intellectual would be a great addition to our channel. Thank you once again
I was about to be so anti at the begging of the video, I guess I was initially triggered by the first few minutes seeming very white centred and I struggled to relate, but how I was so so wrong… and it opened my mind and also broke through my own internal prejudices that I subjugate myself to subconiously… creating your own cultural capital is probably the most powerful solution I took from this video to help in my current socio economic challenges … thank you 🙏❤
Why do you love hip-hop? Personally, I think hip-hop is lame and meaningless but maybe I'm missing something Please enlighten me, or in a more "modern" way: show me d way
@@atheistcrusader1160 I love hip hop because it allowed the voiceless, poor urban youth, a platform to communicate to the rest of the world what was happening in their communities. It is also the genre that is responsible for a huge sector of technological advancement in music.
@@buhdahwee I disagree with the "technology advancement" part... And what do you think about mainstream hip-hop and what are the things you hate about it?
@@atheistcrusader1160 why does he have to explain his love for something after you just called it lame and meaningless? You clearly have your bias and are refuting his explanation anyways.
There’s a difference between listening to Hendrix for the first time today versus when he first started playing; it lies in the subjective experience and the uniqueness of the event in the moment of its arrival. This is the use-value of sociocultural capital from an ethical perspective.
Hello, a few days ago I discovered your amazing channel and when i watched several videos that deal with the issues of social and economic systems, I wondered if you could make a video about the economic system and environmental degradation. ............................................... And if you could identify the fallacies in the issue, since many pro-system say that Capitalism will be able to solve these problems through innovation and that it was those countries where there were socialist systems where the natural environment was most contaminated and destroyed. Others argue that it is the opposite and others mention that it is necessary to overcome both systems since they are two sides of the same coin and it is necessary to understand the complexity of the problem outside the Eurocentric and Anglo-Saxon logic. ... . ......... I am currently in the sixth semester of POLITICAL SCIENCE and I have decided to investigate more on the topic of Climate Change, common resources, redistribution of natural resources, consumerism among others. My main concern lies in identifying that the dominant economic model (dominant paradigm) is based on an infinite linear growth in a planet of finite resources, which results in many phenomena such as: Hyper-consumption, a structural inequality where the richest they consume more resources, the inequality at international level where some countries are destined to be over-exploited and to be suppliers of raw materials for the development of others, the loss of biodiversity, extinction of species, scarcity of resources among many others. (These last phenomena worry me too since my dad is a biologist) That said, I consider that from the social sciences (Political Science Included) it is the duty to propose alternative systems that break with the dominant paradigm, both politically and economically and that allow a redistribution of resources, such as fair economic activities and consumption rational of them.
Excellent. Bourdiou is right, of course, on his main points. I'd add, though: (1) some art productions are actually richer than others: a third person account of cultural consumption can miss a key reason why Shakespeare survives better than, say, Dekker. (2) late capitalism is nihilistic. It often favours infantilism over complexity. It is thus the common enemy of Stormzy and Wagner. Some high modernism, appreciated by a minority, it is true, is more resistant to the culture industry than much of the cultural production aimed at both the middle and subordinated classes.
I think it's a matter of perception. I realize you're using infantilism as something pejorative here, which I disagree with but that's not the point. But I think it depends on where you allow yourself to see and engage with the complexity of a work of art (or else). Some people would argue that Metal, hardcore, EDM, reggeton or hip-hop is not complex, when its richness and complexity have been demonstrated over and over again by scholars. It's not because it doesn't' speak to us, or that it's not relevant to our individual lives that it lacks complexity. :)
I wonder where this puts actual enjoyment, is any enjoyment of a piece of art a sort of placebo affect brought by cultural posturing, or is there a genuine experience of enjoyment which is innocent of status seeking? Perhaps there is no way of telling.
According to those Post-structuralistical view, there is no actual/genuine enjoyment. Lots of pleasure/enjoyment have ontologically different roots. There are physiological pleasure as well as symbolical pleasure, and even some repressive, transgressive and excessive "enjoyment" called "Jouissance" by Jacques Lacan.(as in Masochistic enjoyment, that is actually perceived as pain)
What makes Beethoven more respectable than LL Cool J? I can't speak to Beethoven, but I'm reminded of the phrase, "Deepest, bluest-my hat is like a shark's fin."
Hi Then & Now, I like your videos. Would you be willing to share or sell your transcripts? I'm not sure how it would work - perhaps through patreon? Thanks Simon
All universal access to culture through the public (government programs) is as such outside of the culture it proclaims to give access to. You can not force groups to exchange certain forms of capital. No matter how hard you try or how much equality you demand.
But in this age of the "individual" and the hyperconnectivity there is no boundary stopping any individual, from any strata of society, engaging in the works of Homer or learning, in-depth, about the paintings hanging in the National Gallery. If you hold a penchant for a specific element of cultural capital its never been more readily accessible. The world has never been so open, in regards information anyway. Bourdieu's theory might have seemed noteworthy 30/40 years ago but today it seems dated, no?
Comparing hip-hop to classical music is stupid, and it shows something sinister about this idea of cultural capital. Beethoven's music is more harmonically rich, musically interesting, and technically impressive than even the best hip hop in a very objective sense--to a degree much greater than non-musicians might assume. It is this focus on sociological value, then, that allows hip-hop to maintain it's status in comparison to the harmonically and, I would argue, emotionally more complicated Western art music. Don't get me wrong: hip hop can be great. The lyrical complexity of any hip hop classics puts the poetics of most classic opera to shame, and, even musically, there are some really stand-out works in, say, A Tribe Called Quest's use of samples or Kendrick's arrangements on *To Pimp a Butterfly*. But, what's really going on with hip hop's heightened position is not a wider understanding of its musical possibilities, but its accrual of cultural capital within mass culture. The problem is that this way of thinking doesn't really allow for music appreciation. Academic music now is fraught with the problems of relativist cultural pomp, with so many movements, revivals, and methods of composition, all with their varying degrees of waxing or waning relevance to this or that "cultural moment." Yet, not a single one of these works capture the slightest bit of attention from the culture at large. Why? Because, like early hip hop, musical composition is itself now subcultural. The idea of making an instrumental work of beauty that builds on the most advanced traditions of musical arrangement--this is now just something you may or may not be into. It might earn you some respect from other people who are into the same stuff, but it doesn't really have any bearing on the culture at large--unless classical music has a pop-cultural "moment" sometime soon. This leads to academic specialization and obscurantism--further isolating the cutting edge of musical composition from the culture at large. And, make no mistake, this is to the detriment of the culture. It is no coincidence that musicians and composers struggle to make a living, forced to focus on "building an audience" rather than proving their skills in their field. There are some analogies, here, to other fields, but I've already written waaay too much. I'm not a snob really, but I do think our culture of capital (cultural or otherwise) has some big problems, including aesthetic problems. If art's only value is to give a wink to its own in-group--if it provides nothing universal--then it cannot survive. If we cannot speak to universal values, then capital will prove itself to be our only universal value.
I would have to disagree with you, sir. Yes, Beethoven's music is harmonically richer, but musical interest is subjective, and really depends on what you are interested in even listening to. How can you say Beethoven is more technically impressive when you are only taking into account a very narrow view of what technical skills a composer or musician should have? A good producer/composer today has mastery over mixing and mastering. They know how compression works, saturation, equalization, panning, reverb, distortion and a whole list of other audio effects work. They can turn one sound into a completely different sound in a very skillful and technically proficient manner. They can tell by just listening to a track what frequency bands are too exposed or not loud enough. They can situate each instrument within a virtual room and carve out a space in the mix for each instrument. Also you seem to have a problem that general audiences no longer care for classical or advanced instrumental music they "may or may not be into it". But general audiences have never cared for this. People weren't listening to Beethoven when he was alive, they would be dancing to gavottes, gigues, and galops. Plain old dance music (kind of like EDM and hip-hop), which by the way papa Bach wrote a lot of. Also back in those days composers were financially tethered to lords and barons who often dictated what they would like their court composers to write and perform. Musicians and composers have always struggled to make a living. At least today if you write the most obscure aleatoric, atonal, contrabassoon quartet, the entire world has the opportunity to view it and you're bound to attract at least a few interested souls (also called building an audience). It just seems to me that putting classical music on a pedestal is to remove it from its own historical and cultural context. In that way it makes it no different from how music today references the culture of our time and the ideas that we deem valuable. I mean Beethoven's Eroica symphony was literally going to be titled Bonaparte, extolling the virtues of what he saw in Napoleon before he declared himself Emperor. Today we listen to this symphony completely removed from the context in which it was written, yet it was also caught up in a "cultural moment". Classical music has the benefit of separating the wheat from the chaff (aka all the boring, lackluster classical pieces fallen into obscurity from the timeless gems). It seems unfair to look around and proclaim that none of this other music has anything of substance to say or any timeless expression of universal values when it hasn't even been given enough time to develop. What is hip-hop is continually changing, and just like how jazz used to be the "dangerous" pop music, that is now relegated to music conservatories, so too will hip-hop in the future. /nonsense rant from a composer
19th C musical ontologies here aside, I think you're missing a crucial point of this vid- it's not necessarily a comparison between hip hop and Beethoven, it's suggesting that hip hop prevails partly because of a lack of accessibility to the cultural capital required for entry into a classical paradigm, which is gatekept behind culturally specific knowledge more readily available to those from higher socio economic backgrounds. Besides this, the standard by which you're judging hip hop as inferior to western art music is a standard derived FOR and FROM western art music. Obviously most popular music consumed in a western setting has tonal and harmonic roots in the common prac period. But to judge it by the same standards as Beethoven and decry its differences is to be ignorant of all of the incredibly finely honed skills that go into even the most 'mass culture' hip hop track. You mustn't be very familiar with production techniques or you would understand the deep analytical capabilities of people working on this music. I'm not judging Beethoven by his skills as a producer, so why are we judging a hip hop album by its Ursatz or Urlinie or voice leading or whatever? It's a completely different sport.
N D A different sport! Exactly. The fear is harmonic mastery going the way of croquet or some other archaic game now seen as an athletic novelty. This is precisely the understanding I take issue with: that the entire study of composition could be considered one "sport" or "style" among many. It isn't: all music, Western or otherwise, exploits certain physical rules of harmony, and the Western tradition of counterpoint exploits them in the most complex way, using tension against and release towards natural harmony as a way to create an advanced harmonic grammar. Equal temperament added even further complexity to that tradition, allowing harmonic movement to follow similar structures between keys. These developments came from Western music not as a cultural trait that the West privileged over the traits of other cultures, but as a distinct technical advantage--something akin to a scientific discovery. 99% of music the world over now uses Western methods of tuning and harmony--not because it was "derived for and from" the West, but because it works to provide a much richer harmonic grammar than other traditions ever had access to. Jazz, pop, modern world music, and hip hop are all reliant on this harmonic tradition. Voice leading, for example, is not a "different sport," but can be heard in all these genres--albeit with generically or culturally distinct variations. I'm not interested in the generically and culturally distinct characteristics that define the origins Western art music (though those can be interesting), but the universal aspirations of that harmonic system and its advanced practitioners. Hip hop is not an "inferior" art form, it is, as the commenter above admitted, less "harmonically rich"--its practitioners generally do not have aspirations to create new avenues of harmonic narrative or discovery. The lyrical storytelling can be great, and production certainly takes some skill, but what's it doing *musically*? Not generically or culturally, but how is it furthering our understanding of what combinations of tense and assonant intervals can fit together? Maybe it could develop to produce more and more harmonically complex compositions that present the Western tradition in a new light, as jazz did after some decades of development. But, that won't be possible if practitioners are concerned only with signifying culturally specific ideas of legitimacy. Both replies to my comment treat the entire tradition of harmony as an essentially cultural phenomenon--which was, historically, not what most cultures understood music to be. Music is primarily a physical phenomenon, with the structure of the physical creation determined by cultural conventions, yes, but also by universal physical laws and universal human psychological responses. My problem is not really with the Beethoven vs. Hip Hop in particular (I've definitely listened to more Hip Hop than Beethoven since that comment), but with the idea of cultural capital, which precludes any access to the universal. If there is only cultural currency and no universal understanding, then we are forever doomed to a meaningless rat race of cultural capitalists expressing attitudes in lieu of creating art.
Lewis: I like how much you emphasize Habermas’ ‘public sphere’ for democratic discussion/argumentation. The structure of YT is oppressive in how it gives power to YT channel users in discussion at the expense of other commenters. Though, on your last video you removed my 1st intellectual property abolition thread without notice to me. And you removed another comment in this video. So instead of immediately removing comments (or blocking users) from now on, I have a suggestion that you respond to each user with the same or similar following comment: “YT channel users can remove any comments and block other users from commenting for any reason. This is anti free speech and gives power to YT channel users at the expense of other users commenting on their channel. Your last comment _________, however I won’t immediately remove this comment. So instead I’m giving you until 24 hours from now to explain why I shouldn’t remove your last comment. (I’m also open to hearing explanations from anyone for why/how I should change this process)” Please let me know your thoughts. You could substitute “remove your comment” with “block you” or “remove your comment & block you” whenever it seems appropriate. It’s also important YT channels don’t ban any particular terms: *All terms can be ethically used in the right context* . It would be very beneficial for free speech & democracy on the internet if more channel users (& users/mods/platform holders on other sites) started conducting themselves like this.
You didn't really explain how "cultural capital", like knowledge of Homer, is "exchanged" with the teacher. For sure, he'll like you more if you are knowledgable about that, so investing in being knowledgable about Homer is a thing. But to speak of exchange her seems like that's only done because speaking about capital was fashionable. The 'Cultural "Capital"' moreover appears to be much more fragile, fading away when not progressively renewed and handed down to the next generation in an active way that requires effort and time. That is, it appears Cultural Capital can't be created or acquired, it's just a matter of what one focuses on. Apart from my non-understanding of the notion, great and important video.
Watcher so true! It is an asset which must be constantly reproduced i.e. if we take fashion as an example, buying each new edition of i-D magazine or Vogue ensures you are up to date with all the latest cultural references and ensures anyone who is not up to date looses out on their cultural capital
It's so fucking creepy, this is the third time you're uploading a video with the EXACT same topic as my academic paper I'm writing on. Kinda ironic it's about Bourdieu tho.
I find your Kung Fu rewarding. Why did you not just say African Diaspora? Do not santize reality. We are speaking about the children of the Atlantic slave trade. I would also add (I meaning me not you) as an African that it is strange that hip hop makes reference more to European culture but not to its own African culture as a point of concern.
Not all Black people in America are children are slaves. There were dark skinned native Americans here before Africans were ever brought to our country.
Only because he's white. You add all this reverence to him but but Mozart and Beethoven have been surpassed for 100 years now buy black Americans black Americans are the gold standard of music not Beethoven or Mozart nobody's copying them or trying to make music like them
@@Kulah-SS no you're over here emphasizing that is thoughtless and empty-headed and that's not true this is you saying that. It takes this to make catchy music. You can't do it. Black American music has surpassed and enriched and is more complex than any music that you like. Foundational Black Americans are the best musicians of all times
@@Kulah-SS popular music is more complex than classical music when you're talking about artists like Michael Jackson who's the king of pop. He makes the arrangement, he writes the lyrics, he deals with things in his lyrics that might be about society and things like that which is more complex than what Beethoven well they're just focusing on just an emotion or creating an emotion he's talking about things that are serious in society. And trying to make his music give an emotion as well, any singing it then he performs it and make sure it's dance and everything else is set up a certain way so he's doing way more complex things
@jerrygraves6531 You have no knowledge of music theory. It's obvious. You probably can't explain the circle of 5ths. And you certainly can't read music.
I understand why you feel he insinuates that, but I don't think Bourdieu would say that Cardi B's music is as complex, rich or brilliant as that of Franz Liszt (I'm unfamiliar with both of their work btw). I think he would only say that the difference in value ascribed to it is disproportionally large to the difference in value that there is in actuality (if you would be able to measure the quality of music in a somewhat objective way). In our society, Cardi B fans are not viewed people with a refined musical taste, people who listen to Liszt are. But the difference in prestige between those two groups of people is probably far greater than the difference in pure quality, because taste is often defined as a binary: you either have it or you don't. While the enjoyability of music is not a binary: it's not like Liszt is totally enjoyable and Cardi B's music is not at all enjoyable. Otherwise, nobody would be able to enjoy Cardi B and everyone would love Liszt.
The line is arbitrary in the sense that if Liszt is considered superior within certain social context, it is because this social context value arbitrarily certain caractéristiques over others. For example, if you are in a party of 20 something, you're ability to select a good song for everyone to dance is more valuable than you're knowledge of Liszt. In an upper class diner with educated guests, it's the contrary. Social Capital like Capital permit to navigate class conditioned spaces.
@@saint_silver I get what you're saying, but I don't buy into the reasoning that the social value of forcing yourself to like something, COMPLETELY determines your musical taste. And I also don't believe that there is no distinction to be made regarding the quality of different kinds of music.
Hip Hop is not art, it is entertainment, maby just 'passtime'. Most of what we call 'art' simply does not qualify - we are just trying to justify what we "like" or fund in some way attractive, entertaining or a distraction for the ordinary.
Stndsure Blankety calling all hip hop not art is a ridiculous statement Even hip hop music I’m not fond of is definitely art, it may not be visual, but is a great piece of literature not art? Take the videos example, the odyssey, is that not art? No one will ever be able to tell me Aesop Rock, Lupe Fiasco, Nas, MF DOOM, Andre 3k etc aren’t poets, and therefor don’t make art The actual video is talking about the subjugation of the popular culture, and if I had to guess I’d say the value system you grew up under was not a fan of hip hop music and thus has closed your horizons, give new things a chance
Hip-Hop as a culture is a joke. It is mainly rapping. Graffiti existed before Hip-Hop. The only element of it that did not exist prior was scratching. Being a spectator of an art form doesn't make you a part of its culture. Hip-Hop was just the latest youth/adsolescent/ consumer pop-culture, to come along. It was argurably the most pretentious of its kind. Jazz, r&b, and reggae music had a great influence on young people outside of the U.S.. Whatever capital it has, is not in the hands of those of the masses, of the demographic, who created it. Nor has the communities it came out of benefited from it. To the contrary, they are worst. Non-Black people play at being H-H, but return to being themselves, when ever they want. A minority among Black people brought into the sterotypes among us, that media reinforced, and they seem convinced that this is really, who they are. Most likely know better, but it is profitable for them individually, and so they engage in this one sided economic relationship. The music would be nothing, without the samples of previous music forms it uses. The true history of Hip-Hop has yet to be written. Hopefully it will redeem itself, before that happens. Right now its living history, is not loking too good.
Graffiti in terms of Hip Hop was not the same as what was before because it just came from a different people in a different mindset. And the dance moves are different, the fashion is different, the beats and instrumentals are different, so what are you talking about you're just trying to define things in a way so that you can look down on hip hop. It's better than anything you could ever create
The last five minutes of your video referencing hip hop (a Black American art form) but then using images mostly of white people, and then a pre-hip hop social and political movement is... a choice
Hello, a few days ago I discovered your amazing channel and when i watched several videos that deal with the issues of social and economic systems, I wondered if you could make a video about the economic system and environmental degradation. ............................................... And if you could identify the fallacies in the issue, since many pro-system say that Capitalism will be able to solve these problems through innovation and that it was those countries where there were socialist systems where the natural environment was most contaminated and destroyed. Others argue that it is the opposite and others mention that it is necessary to overcome both systems since they are two sides of the same coin and it is necessary to understand the complexity of the problem outside the Eurocentric and Anglo-Saxon logic. ... . ......... I am currently in the sixth semester of POLITICAL SCIENCE and I have decided to investigate more on the topic of Climate Change, common resources, redistribution of natural resources, consumerism among others. My main concern lies in identifying that the dominant economic model (dominant paradigm) is based on an infinite linear growth in a planet of finite resources, which results in many phenomena such as: Hyper-consumption, a structural inequality where the richest they consume more resources, the inequality at international level where some countries are destined to be over-exploited and to be suppliers of raw materials for the development of others, the loss of biodiversity, extinction of species, scarcity of resources among many others. (These last phenomena worry me too since my dad is a biologist) That said, I consider that from the social sciences (Political Science Included) it is the duty to propose alternative systems that break with the dominant paradigm, both politically and economically and that allow a redistribution of resources, such as fair economic activities and consumption rational of them.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Script & sources at: www.thenandnow.co/2023/05/31/bourdieu-cultural-capital-the-love-of-art-hip-hop/
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The cultural capital that hip hop created for itself is astounding.
You mean created by black Americans for black Americans
*created for black Americans
Why is it astounding, because it’s black art? Because there are limitations placed on the prosperity that Black people or dark skinned people in America can achieve? You seem to also be a victim of habitus.
This is nice to wake up to
Refreshing - there's usually minimal space for considering philosophy and Hip-Hop side by side. Thanks for generating a point of dialogue.
Found this channel because I needed easier understanding of Bourdieu, I'm very grateful now because this channel is the cultural capital I need right now.
/ Will probably binge watch everything if I can.
This is really good! I might just pass my exam in social differences with content like this! Thank you for helping me grow my cultrual capital! ❤️
The way you made a lot of knowledge accessible to many people is amazing. A very good beginning to understanding
You always do a great job balancing the pacing of your videos with the complexity level-I appreciate that they are not dumbed down, and that you don’t sound like you’re on meth. Keep up the great work, my friend-your videos are always a pleasant surprise.
Brilliant! Such a clear representation of Bourdieu's ideas. Important ideas.
Awesome video. The use of pictures and scenarios really helped with understanding a great deep theory of power. Your craftsmanship is incredible.
Then & Now: this is VERY INTERESTING!
massively underrated channel
Ok, mentioning hip-hop drew me to the video, I'll admit it. Even though I like Bourdieu, "hip-hop" was the factor that made me click on the notification.
What made "hip-hop" attractive to you?
@@atheistcrusader1160 his cultural capital
Great video as usual. Thank You
Can you please do a video on something related to Edward Said. since your channel lately seems to have become oriented towards the Cultural Turn in the humanities and social Sciences, Said's understanding of Cultural Imperialism, Secular Humanism and the role of the Intellectual would be a great addition to our channel.
Thank you once again
Excellent ideas as always. ;)
I was about to be so anti at the begging of the video, I guess I was initially triggered by the first few minutes seeming very white centred and I struggled to relate, but how I was so so wrong… and it opened my mind and also broke through my own internal prejudices that I subjugate myself to subconiously… creating your own cultural capital is probably the most powerful solution I took from this video to help in my current socio economic challenges … thank you 🙏❤
Thank you for existing
Best channel said this two years ago. Say it now
wow this was amazing, I almost cried ,you are so right with your analysis! Keep going man you are doing a great job :)
Well done ...important thinker.
As a lover of hiphop this was a great watch.
Why do you love hip-hop?
Personally, I think hip-hop is lame and meaningless but maybe I'm missing something
Please enlighten me, or in a more "modern" way: show me d way
@@atheistcrusader1160 I love hip hop because it allowed the voiceless, poor urban youth, a platform to communicate to the rest of the world what was happening in their communities. It is also the genre that is responsible for a huge sector of technological advancement in music.
@@buhdahwee
I disagree with the "technology advancement" part...
And what do you think about mainstream hip-hop and what are the things you hate about it?
@@atheistcrusader1160 why does he have to explain his love for something after you just called it lame and meaningless? You clearly have your bias and are refuting his explanation anyways.
There’s a difference between listening to Hendrix for the first time today versus when he first started playing; it lies in the subjective experience and the uniqueness of the event in the moment of its arrival. This is the use-value of sociocultural capital from an ethical perspective.
How is that an ethical perspective
Hello fellow Bimm students reading the comments while watching this
beautiful video
Very well said. One of my favs from ya
thank you for introducing me to this
what a legend cheers mate
Hello, a few days ago I discovered your amazing channel and when i watched several videos that deal with the issues of social and economic systems, I wondered if you could make a video about the economic system and environmental degradation. ............................................... And if you could identify the fallacies in the issue, since many pro-system say that Capitalism will be able to solve these problems through innovation and that it was those countries where there were socialist systems where the natural environment was most contaminated and destroyed. Others argue that it is the opposite and others mention that it is necessary to overcome both systems since they are two sides of the same coin and it is necessary to understand the complexity of the problem outside the Eurocentric and Anglo-Saxon logic. ... . ......... I am currently in the sixth semester of POLITICAL SCIENCE and I have decided to investigate more on the topic of Climate Change, common resources, redistribution of natural resources, consumerism among others.
My main concern lies in identifying that the dominant economic model (dominant paradigm) is based on an infinite linear growth in a planet of finite resources, which results in many phenomena such as: Hyper-consumption, a structural inequality where the richest they consume more resources, the inequality at international level where some countries are destined to be over-exploited and to be suppliers of raw materials for the development of others, the loss of biodiversity, extinction of species, scarcity of resources among many others. (These last phenomena worry me too since my dad is a biologist)
That said, I consider that from the social sciences (Political Science Included) it is the duty to propose alternative systems that break with the dominant paradigm, both politically and economically and that allow a redistribution of resources, such as fair economic activities and consumption rational of them.
This is one of the only philosophy channels I know of that isn't vaguely alt-right, so thank you for that
great video, i really enjoy your application of cultural capital to hip-hop especially!
1:34 that music is beautiful
very good briefing of the concept! Thanks
wow! wonderful!!!
So good🤯
Excellent. Bourdiou is right, of course, on his main points. I'd add, though: (1) some art productions are actually richer than others: a third person account of cultural consumption can miss a key reason why Shakespeare survives better than, say, Dekker. (2) late capitalism is nihilistic. It often favours infantilism over complexity. It is thus the common enemy of Stormzy and Wagner. Some high modernism, appreciated by a minority, it is true, is more resistant to the culture industry than much of the cultural production aimed at both the middle and subordinated classes.
i take it you're not a fan of playboi carti :(
I think it's a matter of perception. I realize you're using infantilism as something pejorative here, which I disagree with but that's not the point. But I think it depends on where you allow yourself to see and engage with the complexity of a work of art (or else). Some people would argue that Metal, hardcore, EDM, reggeton or hip-hop is not complex, when its richness and complexity have been demonstrated over and over again by scholars. It's not because it doesn't' speak to us, or that it's not relevant to our individual lives that it lacks complexity. :)
@@chiara1228 it’s the same with food. I think food is the field where Habitus/ class is most visible
Sounds good, let's see...
It was great.
I wonder where this puts actual enjoyment, is any enjoyment of a piece of art a sort of placebo affect brought by cultural posturing, or is there a genuine experience of enjoyment which is innocent of status seeking? Perhaps there is no way of telling.
According to those Post-structuralistical view, there is no actual/genuine enjoyment. Lots of pleasure/enjoyment have ontologically different roots. There are physiological pleasure as well as symbolical pleasure, and even some repressive, transgressive and excessive "enjoyment" called "Jouissance" by Jacques Lacan.(as in Masochistic enjoyment, that is actually perceived as pain)
It's a completely stupid concept. Making a meal out of differences in taste between class groups.
1:50 - Cultural capital
10:25 - Hip Hop
While walking to work I was listening to this video, when you mentioned Homer I immediately thought you were talking about Homer Simpson!🤦🏻♀️
90s kid ❤️🔥💯
what's the name of the song playing at 1:40?
Do a Bergson video
Exactly.
What makes Beethoven more respectable than LL Cool J? I can't speak to Beethoven, but I'm reminded of the phrase, "Deepest, bluest-my hat is like a shark's fin."
What music do you use?
Good video. What's the song you use?
Hi Then & Now, I like your videos. Would you be willing to share or sell your transcripts? I'm not sure how it would work - perhaps through patreon? Thanks Simon
They are all available for Patreons! Link to my Patreon under each video. Thanks :)
Where are these parties where people are talking about Wagner?
at my house
All universal access to culture through the public (government programs) is as such outside of the culture it proclaims to give access to. You can not force groups to exchange certain forms of capital. No matter how hard you try or how much equality you demand.
I fucking love Bourdieu
Does this make Trump a weird form of culture capital? Specifically related to those who value the "spectacle" of politics?
Who's here because they got an upcoming exam soon like me?😂
But in this age of the "individual" and the hyperconnectivity there is no boundary stopping any individual, from any strata of society, engaging in the works of Homer or learning, in-depth, about the paintings hanging in the National Gallery. If you hold a penchant for a specific element of cultural capital its never been more readily accessible. The world has never been so open, in regards information anyway. Bourdieu's theory might have seemed noteworthy 30/40 years ago but today it seems dated, no?
Comparing hip-hop to classical music is stupid, and it shows something sinister about this idea of cultural capital. Beethoven's music is more harmonically rich, musically interesting, and technically impressive than even the best hip hop in a very objective sense--to a degree much greater than non-musicians might assume.
It is this focus on sociological value, then, that allows hip-hop to maintain it's status in comparison to the harmonically and, I would argue, emotionally more complicated Western art music. Don't get me wrong: hip hop can be great. The lyrical complexity of any hip hop classics puts the poetics of most classic opera to shame, and, even musically, there are some really stand-out works in, say, A Tribe Called Quest's use of samples or Kendrick's arrangements on *To Pimp a Butterfly*. But, what's really going on with hip hop's heightened position is not a wider understanding of its musical possibilities, but its accrual of cultural capital within mass culture.
The problem is that this way of thinking doesn't really allow for music appreciation. Academic music now is fraught with the problems of relativist cultural pomp, with so many movements, revivals, and methods of composition, all with their varying degrees of waxing or waning relevance to this or that "cultural moment." Yet, not a single one of these works capture the slightest bit of attention from the culture at large. Why? Because, like early hip hop, musical composition is itself now subcultural. The idea of making an instrumental work of beauty that builds on the most advanced traditions of musical arrangement--this is now just something you may or may not be into. It might earn you some respect from other people who are into the same stuff, but it doesn't really have any bearing on the culture at large--unless classical music has a pop-cultural "moment" sometime soon.
This leads to academic specialization and obscurantism--further isolating the cutting edge of musical composition from the culture at large. And, make no mistake, this is to the detriment of the culture. It is no coincidence that musicians and composers struggle to make a living, forced to focus on "building an audience" rather than proving their skills in their field.
There are some analogies, here, to other fields, but I've already written waaay too much. I'm not a snob really, but I do think our culture of capital (cultural or otherwise) has some big problems, including aesthetic problems. If art's only value is to give a wink to its own in-group--if it provides nothing universal--then it cannot survive. If we cannot speak to universal values, then capital will prove itself to be our only universal value.
I would have to disagree with you, sir. Yes, Beethoven's music is harmonically richer, but musical interest is subjective, and really depends on what you are interested in even listening to. How can you say Beethoven is more technically impressive when you are only taking into account a very narrow view of what technical skills a composer or musician should have? A good producer/composer today has mastery over mixing and mastering. They know how compression works, saturation, equalization, panning, reverb, distortion and a whole list of other audio effects work. They can turn one sound into a completely different sound in a very skillful and technically proficient manner. They can tell by just listening to a track what frequency bands are too exposed or not loud enough. They can situate each instrument within a virtual room and carve out a space in the mix for each instrument.
Also you seem to have a problem that general audiences no longer care for classical or advanced instrumental music they "may or may not be into it". But general audiences have never cared for this. People weren't listening to Beethoven when he was alive, they would be dancing to gavottes, gigues, and galops. Plain old dance music (kind of like EDM and hip-hop), which by the way papa Bach wrote a lot of. Also back in those days composers were financially tethered to lords and barons who often dictated what they would like their court composers to write and perform. Musicians and composers have always struggled to make a living. At least today if you write the most obscure aleatoric, atonal, contrabassoon quartet, the entire world has the opportunity to view it and you're bound to attract at least a few interested souls (also called building an audience).
It just seems to me that putting classical music on a pedestal is to remove it from its own historical and cultural context. In that way it makes it no different from how music today references the culture of our time and the ideas that we deem valuable. I mean Beethoven's Eroica symphony was literally going to be titled Bonaparte, extolling the virtues of what he saw in Napoleon before he declared himself Emperor. Today we listen to this symphony completely removed from the context in which it was written, yet it was also caught up in a "cultural moment". Classical music has the benefit of separating the wheat from the chaff (aka all the boring, lackluster classical pieces fallen into obscurity from the timeless gems). It seems unfair to look around and proclaim that none of this other music has anything of substance to say or any timeless expression of universal values when it hasn't even been given enough time to develop. What is hip-hop is continually changing, and just like how jazz used to be the "dangerous" pop music, that is now relegated to music conservatories, so too will hip-hop in the future.
/nonsense rant from a composer
19th C musical ontologies here aside, I think you're missing a crucial point of this vid- it's not necessarily a comparison between hip hop and Beethoven, it's suggesting that hip hop prevails partly because of a lack of accessibility to the cultural capital required for entry into a classical paradigm, which is gatekept behind culturally specific knowledge more readily available to those from higher socio economic backgrounds.
Besides this, the standard by which you're judging hip hop as inferior to western art music is a standard derived FOR and FROM western art music. Obviously most popular music consumed in a western setting has tonal and harmonic roots in the common prac period. But to judge it by the same standards as Beethoven and decry its differences is to be ignorant of all of the incredibly finely honed skills that go into even the most 'mass culture' hip hop track. You mustn't be very familiar with production techniques or you would understand the deep analytical capabilities of people working on this music. I'm not judging Beethoven by his skills as a producer, so why are we judging a hip hop album by its Ursatz or Urlinie or voice leading or whatever? It's a completely different sport.
N D A different sport! Exactly. The fear is harmonic mastery going the way of croquet or some other archaic game now seen as an athletic novelty. This is precisely the understanding I take issue with: that the entire study of composition could be considered one "sport" or "style" among many.
It isn't: all music, Western or otherwise, exploits certain physical rules of harmony, and the Western tradition of counterpoint exploits them in the most complex way, using tension against and release towards natural harmony as a way to create an advanced harmonic grammar. Equal temperament added even further complexity to that tradition, allowing harmonic movement to follow similar structures between keys. These developments came from Western music not as a cultural trait that the West privileged over the traits of other cultures, but as a distinct technical advantage--something akin to a scientific discovery.
99% of music the world over now uses Western methods of tuning and harmony--not because it was "derived for and from" the West, but because it works to provide a much richer harmonic grammar than other traditions ever had access to. Jazz, pop, modern world music, and hip hop are all reliant on this harmonic tradition. Voice leading, for example, is not a "different sport," but can be heard in all these genres--albeit with generically or culturally distinct variations.
I'm not interested in the generically and culturally distinct characteristics that define the origins Western art music (though those can be interesting), but the universal aspirations of that harmonic system and its advanced practitioners. Hip hop is not an "inferior" art form, it is, as the commenter above admitted, less "harmonically rich"--its practitioners generally do not have aspirations to create new avenues of harmonic narrative or discovery. The lyrical storytelling can be great, and production certainly takes some skill, but what's it doing *musically*? Not generically or culturally, but how is it furthering our understanding of what combinations of tense and assonant intervals can fit together? Maybe it could develop to produce more and more harmonically complex compositions that present the Western tradition in a new light, as jazz did after some decades of development. But, that won't be possible if practitioners are concerned only with signifying culturally specific ideas of legitimacy.
Both replies to my comment treat the entire tradition of harmony as an essentially cultural phenomenon--which was, historically, not what most cultures understood music to be. Music is primarily a physical phenomenon, with the structure of the physical creation determined by cultural conventions, yes, but also by universal physical laws and universal human psychological responses. My problem is not really with the Beethoven vs. Hip Hop in particular (I've definitely listened to more Hip Hop than Beethoven since that comment), but with the idea of cultural capital, which precludes any access to the universal. If there is only cultural currency and no universal understanding, then we are forever doomed to a meaningless rat race of cultural capitalists expressing attitudes in lieu of creating art.
Snob
Black American artist from old school r&b to Hip Hop or better musicians than Beethoven and Mozart
Lewis: I like how much you emphasize Habermas’ ‘public sphere’ for democratic discussion/argumentation. The structure of YT is oppressive in how it gives power to YT channel users in discussion at the expense of other commenters. Though, on your last video you removed my 1st intellectual property abolition thread without notice to me. And you removed another comment in this video. So instead of immediately removing comments (or blocking users) from now on, I have a suggestion that you respond to each user with the same or similar following comment:
“YT channel users can remove any comments and block other users from commenting for any reason. This is anti free speech and gives power to YT channel users at the expense of other users commenting on their channel. Your last comment _________, however I won’t immediately remove this comment. So instead I’m giving you until 24 hours from now to explain why I shouldn’t remove your last comment.
(I’m also open to hearing explanations from anyone for why/how I should change this process)”
Please let me know your thoughts. You could substitute “remove your comment” with “block you” or “remove your comment & block you” whenever it seems appropriate. It’s also important YT channels don’t ban any particular terms: *All terms can be ethically used in the right context* . It would be very beneficial for free speech & democracy on the internet if more channel users (& users/mods/platform holders on other sites) started conducting themselves like this.
You didn't really explain how "cultural capital", like knowledge of Homer, is "exchanged" with the teacher. For sure, he'll like you more if you are knowledgable about that, so investing in being knowledgable about Homer is a thing. But to speak of exchange her seems like that's only done because speaking about capital was fashionable. The 'Cultural "Capital"' moreover appears to be much more fragile, fading away when not progressively renewed and handed down to the next generation in an active way that requires effort and time. That is, it appears Cultural Capital can't be created or acquired, it's just a matter of what one focuses on. Apart from my non-understanding of the notion, great and important video.
Watcher so true! It is an asset which must be constantly reproduced i.e. if we take fashion as an example, buying each new edition of i-D magazine or Vogue ensures you are up to date with all the latest cultural references and ensures anyone who is not up to date looses out on their cultural capital
He actually did explain how cultural caputal is exchanged, in the form of diploma's and certificates or other instiutionalized symbols.
It's so fucking creepy, this is the third time you're uploading a video with the EXACT same topic as my academic paper I'm writing on. Kinda ironic it's about Bourdieu tho.
I find your Kung Fu rewarding. Why did you not just say African Diaspora? Do not santize reality. We are speaking about the children of the Atlantic slave trade. I would also add (I meaning me not you) as an African that it is strange that hip hop makes reference more to European culture but not to its own African culture as a point of concern.
Not all Black people in America are children are slaves. There were dark skinned native Americans here before Africans were ever brought to our country.
Images and ideas seem 70 years old 🙍🙍🙍
why cant bro talk without having this rasping voice wtf be normal man
Beethoven is more respectable than L.L. Cool J, for the same reason that John Coltrane is more respectable than Madonna.
Only because he's white. You add all this reverence to him but but Mozart and Beethoven have been surpassed for 100 years now buy black Americans black Americans are the gold standard of music not Beethoven or Mozart nobody's copying them or trying to make music like them
@jerrygraves6531
You apparently are clueless about who John Coltrane was, or why I mentioned him.
Thoughtless, empty headed pop music is disposable.
Y
@@Kulah-SS no you're over here emphasizing that is thoughtless and empty-headed and that's not true this is you saying that. It takes this to make catchy music. You can't do it. Black American music has surpassed and enriched and is more complex than any music that you like. Foundational Black Americans are the best musicians of all times
@@Kulah-SS popular music is more complex than classical music when you're talking about artists like Michael Jackson who's the king of pop. He makes the arrangement, he writes the lyrics, he deals with things in his lyrics that might be about society and things like that which is more complex than what Beethoven well they're just focusing on just an emotion or creating an emotion he's talking about things that are serious in society. And trying to make his music give an emotion as well, any singing it then he performs it and make sure it's dance and everything else is set up a certain way so he's doing way more complex things
@jerrygraves6531
You have no knowledge of music theory. It's obvious.
You probably can't explain the circle of 5ths. And you certainly can't read music.
Boring tone of voice, laborious genre. Even though I have an idea about Bourdieu's discourse, I had difficulty understanding your points. Sorry.
The same feedback can be applied to your comment mate.
1:35 blasphemy
Street art in Israel takes it to the next level.
No it doesn't because it's not a part of the same movement
For this socioligist to insinuate that the line between Cardi B and Franz Liszt is an arbitrary one I must concede to next level mental gymnastics
I understand why you feel he insinuates that, but I don't think Bourdieu would say that Cardi B's music is as complex, rich or brilliant as that of Franz Liszt (I'm unfamiliar with both of their work btw). I think he would only say that the difference in value ascribed to it is disproportionally large to the difference in value that there is in actuality (if you would be able to measure the quality of music in a somewhat objective way). In our society, Cardi B fans are not viewed people with a refined musical taste, people who listen to Liszt are. But the difference in prestige between those two groups of people is probably far greater than the difference in pure quality, because taste is often defined as a binary: you either have it or you don't. While the enjoyability of music is not a binary: it's not like Liszt is totally enjoyable and Cardi B's music is not at all enjoyable. Otherwise, nobody would be able to enjoy Cardi B and everyone would love Liszt.
@@Enzaio I think you're right, thank you!
The line is arbitrary in the sense that if Liszt is considered superior within certain social context, it is because this social context value arbitrarily certain caractéristiques over others.
For example, if you are in a party of 20 something, you're ability to select a good song for everyone to dance is more valuable than you're knowledge of Liszt.
In an upper class diner with educated guests, it's the contrary.
Social Capital like Capital permit to navigate class conditioned spaces.
@@saint_silver I get what you're saying, but I don't buy into the reasoning that the social value of forcing yourself to like something, COMPLETELY determines your musical taste. And I also don't believe that there is no distinction to be made regarding the quality of different kinds of music.
@@Enzaio That's good because absolutely no one with some sense is arguing that
Hip Hop is not art, it is entertainment, maby just 'passtime'. Most of what we call 'art' simply does not qualify - we are just trying to justify what we "like" or fund in some way attractive, entertaining or a distraction for the ordinary.
Stndsure
Blankety calling all hip hop not art is a ridiculous statement
Even hip hop music I’m not fond of is definitely art, it may not be visual, but is a great piece of literature not art? Take the videos example, the odyssey, is that not art? No one will ever be able to tell me Aesop Rock, Lupe Fiasco, Nas, MF DOOM, Andre 3k etc aren’t poets, and therefor don’t make art
The actual video is talking about the subjugation of the popular culture, and if I had to guess I’d say the value system you grew up under was not a fan of hip hop music and thus has closed your horizons, give new things a chance
Nas, Lupe Fiasco, Kendrick Lamar, Mf Doom, KA, Andre 3000
Hip hop is art and entertainment. What do you what's your definition of art?
Hip-Hop as a culture is a joke. It is mainly rapping. Graffiti existed before Hip-Hop. The only element of it that did not exist prior was scratching. Being a spectator of an art form doesn't make you a part of its culture. Hip-Hop was just the latest youth/adsolescent/ consumer pop-culture, to come along. It was argurably the most pretentious of its kind. Jazz, r&b, and reggae music had a great influence on young people outside of the U.S.. Whatever capital it has, is not in the hands of those of the masses, of the demographic, who created it. Nor has the communities it came out of benefited from it. To the contrary, they are worst. Non-Black people play at being H-H, but return to being themselves, when ever they want. A minority among Black people brought into the sterotypes among us, that media reinforced, and they seem convinced that this is really, who they are. Most likely know better, but it is profitable for them individually, and so they engage in this one sided economic relationship. The music would be nothing, without the samples of previous music forms it uses. The true history of Hip-Hop has yet to be written. Hopefully it will redeem itself, before that happens. Right now its living history, is not loking too good.
Graffiti in terms of Hip Hop was not the same as what was before because it just came from a different people in a different mindset. And the dance moves are different, the fashion is different, the beats and instrumentals are different, so what are you talking about you're just trying to define things in a way so that you can look down on hip hop.
It's better than anything you could ever create
The last five minutes of your video referencing hip hop (a Black American art form) but then using images mostly of white people, and then a pre-hip hop social and political movement is... a choice
He is showing how hip hop transcended into other cultures.
"Grime for Corbyn" will forever taint that genre of music.
Not to a Corbyn supporter!
Hello, a few days ago I discovered your amazing channel and when i watched several videos that deal with the issues of social and economic systems, I wondered if you could make a video about the economic system and environmental degradation. ............................................... And if you could identify the fallacies in the issue, since many pro-system say that Capitalism will be able to solve these problems through innovation and that it was those countries where there were socialist systems where the natural environment was most contaminated and destroyed. Others argue that it is the opposite and others mention that it is necessary to overcome both systems since they are two sides of the same coin and it is necessary to understand the complexity of the problem outside the Eurocentric and Anglo-Saxon logic. ... . ......... I am currently in the sixth semester of POLITICAL SCIENCE and I have decided to investigate more on the topic of Climate Change, common resources, redistribution of natural resources, consumerism among others.
My main concern lies in identifying that the dominant economic model (dominant paradigm) is based on an infinite linear growth in a planet of finite resources, which results in many phenomena such as: Hyper-consumption, a structural inequality where the richest they consume more resources, the inequality at international level where some countries are destined to be over-exploited and to be suppliers of raw materials for the development of others, the loss of biodiversity, extinction of species, scarcity of resources among many others. (These last phenomena worry me too since my dad is a biologist)
That said, I consider that from the social sciences (Political Science Included) it is the duty to propose alternative systems that break with the dominant paradigm, both politically and economically and that allow a redistribution of resources, such as fair economic activities and consumption rational of them.