Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia Villager Promotion Guide. Best and Worst Classes.
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Whats going on guys, ghast here giving you another guide for fire emblem echoes: Shadows of Valentia.
Today, I’m going to give you a breakdown on all 5 villagers available in Echoes, and what their best and worst class options are. First of all though, let’s talk about Attack Speed and how this works in Echoes, as its important to know how it works to understand both the game and this guide.
Thanks to Shephen of Reddit for his contributions to this video :)
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Backdrop and thumbnail by Finian / _finian_
A remake of Fire Emblem Gaiden for the Nintendo 3DS.
On the continent of Valentia lived a pair of sibling gods, Mila and Duma. These two gods fought a savage war over their conflicting ideals, before finally forging a pact to divide the continent into two. Afterwards, two nations-Rigel and Zofia-were formed around these gods. In the coming millennia, the continent ushered in an age of peace. However, in the current era, war threatens to engulf Valentia once again and only two youths-Alm and Celica-hold the power to stop it.
serenesforest....
For more information regarding Echoes Classes, Growths and other important information, check out serenesforest....
The Mage!Kliff debate is this game's Nino debate.
Delthia is the Nino debate. Not Kliff.
Ghast Station Kliff being a Mage saves the series more than Awakening did.
Ghast Station _not our fault Kliff is best mage_
I find the argument silly.
You should re-class everyone to Mage, not just Kliff!
Blessed be the cleansing fire!
Ghast Station
Sanying Atlas is a bad mage, while being having the ideal stats for a non-excalibur mage is more debatable imo. He's the only one that can use rescue and he'll have crazy range with his insane attack.
Kliff can be anything you like really. Though Archer is probably his best class; mostly because the other villagers aren't great archers (or are mage Tobin)
Faye as a Cleric was really useful to rescue Mathilda, bless that early Physic
BlackFrost
Rescue and Physic from Faye + Warp from Silque
......I forgot I could do that, FUCK
I just warped my sage in her celland saved her
I've played the game three times, changing Kliff's class from a mage, to a mercenary, to a cavalier and he's rekt people as all three.
He's my pick for best villager.
My pick too
He’s by far the fastest naturally (meaning disregarding promotion gains) so he’s able to make good use out of classes that have average or below average speed by being able to double more often, which is invaluable when it’s so easy to achieve by both sides. That’s why Faerghast said archer is the best pick for him, Valentian archers are infamous for their low speed
That's weird, Kliff has been wrecking shit as a Mage for me.
Noktis Zariah Yes he's a very good mage
I know it's 5 years late but they did end up nerfing him, he takes awhile to reach that potnetial at being a powerful mage compared to how he was in gaiden to the point he is like delthea but joins early and is sitting duck for a while while delthea joins later, is an est and picks up the crazy spells much earlier. Tobin mage is much better to use from early to even late game
@@nightwish1453I always thought changing their classes from their desired cannon was too sad for me to do 😂
let's forget about kliff for a sec and focus on the real issue with this video
CLEAR-ic?
Thank you....
He also said "For-sith" instead of "For-syth."
IxAmxThexUnicorn Especially bad as Forsyth says his name 50% percent of the time after killing an enemy (In a bad pun, too)
What happens when an unstoppable forsyth meets an immovable object
macro / マクロ I see your a man of culture understandable
Kliff made a good mage for me...
Banana Boy Sxrap the video I say he's a very good mage
He is the best mage.
He's a good mage if you are willing to grind, but in a LTC run he's not worth it.
Kenik Kress What is a LTC?
Aerys Targaryen a low turn count run where you try to complete the game in the least amount of turns possible.
Kliff can go with Everything.
Seriously.
I tried all of them.
Because Kliff is in the top 3 strongest characters in the game due to his high speed growth and good defense growths. Couple that with his base 8 resistance and Kliff will be your most tanky unit no matter what class he is.
KLIFF IS THE GOD THAT REPLACED DUMA AND MILA!
Kliff is god now, no arguments here
More like Guide-en. Eh, eh?
Michael Rich Throw him off a Kliff
Michael Rich that's Gray
Have some Fayeth
This comment thread is going good places.
Clairly
"Kliff's worst class is a mage and a soldier"
"...Mage and a soldier."
*"Mage"*
Fucking what? Kliff's a fantastic mage, he's kinda like a faster version of Boey (from my experience) but for Alm's route, and has been the MVP of my early-game. Sure he gets overshadowed by Luthier in the late-game, but he's still pretty solid. And since you can deploy your entire army outside of dungeons you might as well level him whenever you get the chance, so who really cares?
stefanfr13 Killer Bow is probably a dungeon drop.
Also super confused on Tobin being a good mage. It completely negates his only good growth, being skill.
It's to compliment Excalibur. Mages still use their skill stat to calculate their crit rates, which is further boosted by Excalibur's natural crit.
Forge it. I don't remember from what weapon but you can evolve weapon by forge.
You can make a killer bow by forging a silver bow. You will then be able to evolve it.
Lord Tullus 9 [Puffy Sprinkles] I'm pretty sure crit is some advanced calculation including both luck and skill.
My guess: 1/2 skill + 1/2 luck /2 + weapon crit bonuses. It was something like this in Shadow Dragon.
I think what ghast is saying is it is not necessarily a bad idea to make kliff a mage but you have to get the ball rolling for him if you do so as opposed to some of his other classes which mesh with his growths really well
if anything it just shows that Kliff is good at everything
HylianHorse Why did you just repeat what he said...?
HylianHorse Wha'...weird, when I first read, the original comment was the same as this...
KLIFF IS BEST MAGE
ITS HIS CANON CLASS
WHY WOULD YOU NOT MAKE HIM MAGE
Because Luthier exists
Kliff dominates compared to Luthier
Because I want to experiment with other classes. I'll be replaying the game numerous times anyways, so I can just make him a mage on my second or third run.
hardrockmusickid Trust me, you won't regret it.
That is no problem. I am just confused why Ghast said something so stupid in his video. Tobin is best archer, Grey is best mercenary, Kliff is best mage and Faye is best as a cleric or pegasus knight. Faye is decent as a mage which is what I made her on my first run and did well but she only learns like 3 spells which were fire, seripham and saggatie. (arrow) I did bench her for the final fight though becuse there other characters I needed and you can only take 10 from both Alm and Celica's party.
Okay, whether or not you like Kliff as a mage is one thing, but you CANNOT tell me Luthier is a better mage than him. The guy's highest growth is Skill. Y'know, the stat that's virtually worthless on mages since magic has a set hit rate?
How about crits?
Fede Chan Luck dictates that
@@lokithetrickstergod2100 both skill and luck/2
Skill determines whether or not they get a crit (along with luck) and he knows Excalibur right of the bat, he is meant to be a mage that crits everything and everyone almost all the time
He starts with Excalibur when you recruit him and two chapters after he joins, you fight armor knights in a cramp stairway
WTF I JUST GUESSED AND MADE ALL MY VILLAGERS THEIR BEST CLASSES SOMEHOW.
btw in the first fight with Berkut, Tobin one shot him with Excalliber, and I laughed so hard the next time I saw him because he had a Res boosting ring. I guess Tobin really scarred him for life xd.
Reuben Prescesky Imagining a boss looking up with a crazed face and shouting "Shut up Tobin!!!"
Lemon *_-Replying intensifies.-_*
why does nobody talk about poor Faye
@@cozysundew33 because Faye only has two good classes
I made Kliff a mage......
same here but oh well hes gets the job done
JohneAwesome tru
Luigisilver818 _ ã
Luigisilver818 _ You should throw him off a Kliff
Luigisilver818 _ don't listen to Ghast Kliff is a good mage, the best villager mage by far and definitely one of the better mages I dunno what the hell Ghast is smoking...
Honestly, Mage Kliff is great, as Luthier just pales in comparison to my Kliff. If you wait a bit, he's great
Jacob Tietjen PENM
uh yeah, if you overlevel anyone, they're great.
Ironically in my game, luthier and Deltha are about the same in power.
/s/ad touch to be fair kliff naturally gets the most combat of the villagers to his high defense growth meaning he is gonna be the only one getting enemy phase combat. Kliff gets 3 kills in two enemy phases. Tobin gets one kill a phase if he crits. That’s more natural exp and that’s not intentionally feeding kills. Kliff takes good advantage of the fact that early game physical attackers tend to have low res to take them out in two turns on enemy phase and eventually one turn naturally without any sorta grinding. He just naturally becomes overleveled due to his strengths getting him the most exp out of anyone early game. And by the time you are facing dread fighters when mage kliff should start falling off well he naturally has become so overleveled that he actually hasn’t fallen off due to him getting the most combat. He in reality only potentially falls off post game.
My Kliff is a mage and he actually does wonderfully! Though he does learn Excaliber at level 9, with his high hp gain, and nice speed, not only that but decent attack, he actually orkos most enemies.
I made Kliff my archer and Faye my mage at first I kinda regreted my choices until Kliff's speed started going up o_o he can two hit almost anyone he is so fast and Faye learns Sagettia at lvl 12 which means good luck with the dracoshield as long as you farm her to that lvl later I got Kliff a longbow I crafted from his old bow and made him a bow knight... he became death for nowhere
Honestly their canon classes are the best for them, Tobin is probably the exception since he's a pretty good mage. Gray as a merc, Tobin as an archer, Kliff as a mage, and Fae as a cleric makes a nice balance for Alm's squad.
Faye is canonically a pegasus knight tho
There is no implication at all as to what her canon class is. The community just says peg knight/cleric since she's the only villager who can change into those and gets a unique spell down the cleric/saint path. Plus unlike the other villagers with Alm, there was no indication about how she fights in Ram village. ''Kliff scorched the wall here while practicing some fire spells.'' ''Tobin must have been using this place for archery practice.'' ''Gray and I might have gotten a little carried away during sword practice.'' There is nothing about how she fights like the other villagers. Granted in Cipher she is depicted as a peg knight, while in Heroes they made her an archer. Bottom of the line is, she's arguably best as a cleric since she gets outclassed by Clair as a peg and having 2 healers on Alm's route is really helpful.
+Zoobert Goobert Actually the game isn't clear on what's canon for Faye. Her as a cleric makes her learn something no one else does. Also in a level up quote she mentions Mother Mila which basically all clerics are consistent with mentioning in this game.
+chris123sm Faye is depicted as a Pegasus Knight in Fire Emblem Cipher. There's also upcoming Cipher-exclusive characters DLC as playable unit.
Canon or not I far prefer Faye as a cleric to Silque. I supported her with Alm in chapter 1, and she wrecks crap as her Nosferatu actually hits, not to mention Psychic (which I haven't got quite yet). Faye also has a good def growth from what I've seen, so she can take a hit if you mess up. She is best in my Opinion as a cleric or caviler.
Kliff is a much better physical tank then Lu and they both hit hard. For me atleast. I can live with Kliff having a longer time to learn magic
hes a gosh darn good mage
I really do think you're being unfair by claiming the mage kliff debate is the same as the Nino debate. due to just how many factors there are here, saying that just feels like a direct insult, rather than criticizing people who genuinely feel they have a point with the idea of mage kliff.
For example, let me explain why I feel mage kliff is a better option than mage Tobin. you argued that more spells means very little when kliff learns Excalibur later than Tobin, but I personally feel that a 3 level difference changes very little in the grand scheme of things, as I honestly feel people exaggerate the exp gains in echoes when it comes to early levels. you also mentioned thunder weighing kliff down, making enemies double him, but given that mages only counter with fire, and the range of thunder gets him away from enemies, that really doesn't matter. it also helps that Tobin's support with kliff gives him a small hit boost as well.
so yeah, I really do think there's a lot more to consider than just his spell list, and with that in mind, I still prefer mage kliff over mage Tobin any day of the week.
My Kliff seems to double a lot with thunder.
cuz mage gives good speed
I agree completely. I feel Tobin is best as an Archer, his defenses for me are terrible, so a range of 5 helps him, also Kliff just seems the more natural mage to me,.
27Bayleefs I don't think Tobin is good as an archer. Archer nerfs Tobin's already bad speed growth by an additional 5% meaning he won't be doubling much & is likely to get doubled if he's attacked. you have to get lucky with rng or use the shards found in the dlc if you want to make Tobin decent as an archer, especially in the mid to late game.
Eh, Tobin is slow anyway, so a 5% nerf for me really isn't an issue. His massive skill growth is why I put him as an Archer, as he can hit reliably from 5 tiles away. Archers's aren't meant to get attacked anyway, so him being doubled also isn't an issue, as I keep him protected from the front lines, and he has the hp and defense to survive being doubled so it really isn't an issue, going from my tobin. And any way when it comes to tobin he isn't really a character I recommend anyway, as other characters are far better( I use him because i just don't like Python for some reason). In the end I am going to (and recommend others as well) replace him, as along with Atlas, and Clive, I see him as one of the worst characters in the game.
Kliff is good in any class. There is no wrong choice with him - but Tobin!Mage is superior due to his awesome early game presence and late game Phsyic after he starts to fall off. Kliff had a large array of magic spells, but Delthea is arguably better. So I agree that Kliff!Mage is the (second) worst choice, but just not a bad one.
Soldier is terrible for him, however.
Asher i think soldier is a bad option for basically all villagers especially since a decent amount of them isn't really needed and Barons dont do much work
Soldier is just the worst class all around basically, dread fighters are almost the equivalent but with insane resistance and the ability to reclass. Although I have to say I once made Kliff a soldier, and he still remains one of the best unit I have despite completing the game
Kliff carried me pretty hard in the early game as a mage. just give him a leather shield and he`ll get rid of physical attackers without any problems.
I made grey a mercenary
Kliff an archer
Tobin a cavalier
And Faye a mage.
I already know I fucked up
Fake hero of time only thing you did right was made gray a mercenary
+That one shinobi but he said kliff is best as a cavalier or an archer
Nah I can see Kliff being an ok Archer. Tobin as a Cavalier, eh I can't see it, as you get a pretty decent cavalier for free, and Tobin has a great skill growth, so archer is the natural choice, as he can pick them off easier from huge ranges (correct me if I am wrong about the skill). Faye might work as a mage, but cleric is just far superior as psychic is great. But No you didn't really screw anything up. You get another Archer, healer, pegasus knight and cavalier later, so no worries on that, and Alm's chapter isn't hard at all, you'll get other mages if you villagers fail to satisfy.
+27Bayleefs yeeeeaaaah, I kinda got Claire killed in the first battle I could use her
Well there is more pegasus knights, no worries.
In a game without lunatic mode, I don't understand your talk about mage Kliff having difficulty getting off the ground. His ludicrous speed growth means he'll be faster than Tobin before you even complete part 1, and from that point on he is objectively better than Tobin in every way aside from not getting Tobin's physic. Tobin's growths are garbage compared to Kliff's, and you get them both at the same time. He becomes a highly viable enemy phase tank even before he can double if he isn't already fast enough to by the time you reach your first shrine and reclass him. Tobin only has the Excalibur edge for part 1. How on earth can you justify saying Tobin is the superior mage?
Also, the way you talk about spell weight makes it sound like you don't realize all magic users default to fire or nosferatu on the enemy phase. How the fuck are you going to get doubled while using thunder or Sagittae? The whole point of those spells is exploiting their long range enough to not get countered.
The thing is, even if Kliff is gonna have the better endgame, he’s still a sage with 4 mov. Unless he’s being warped around, he’s barely gonna see any usage compared to Tobin who will have physic to support the team, so despite Kliff having a bigger spell list, Tobin still remains superior. His early game is way better than Kliff’s with lvl 6 Excalibur and he will remain relevant later with physic
Additionally, most tier lists/ in depth evaluations of SoV units tend to have the LTC/Blitzkrieg mindset (beating the game in under 500 turns or less), so someone like Kliff really gets knocked down a peg when he isn’t that useful in the endgame. It’s also why Lukas is considered a way better Baron than Forsyth
@@estyboi5927 two months late but judging a game buy one specific playset is insanely bad because for every one that isn't playing that specific way the tier list is absolutely useless
This guide is very helpful in deciding what class to choose for the villagers.
Here's my villager promotions
Grey- Mercenary
Tobin- Archer/Mage
Kliff- Archer/Mage
Faye- Cleric
Atlas- Archer
Here's what I did:
Gray: Mercenary
Tobin: Archer
Kliff: Mage
Faye: Pegasus Knight
Atlus: Cavalier
On my very first play though I did. I have done 8 playthroughs since and am working on my ninth now I won't be repeating my mistakes as prior.
Grey: Cavalier (He fell off incredibly quickly)
Tobin: Merc (Useful till the last chapter)
Kliff: Mage (I wanted a early mage but he kinda fell off a bit when I got Delthea)
Faye: Cleric (If I get the option I put anyone on the healer role because its my 3rd favorite class in the franchise)
Atlas: Cavalier (I figured more mobility could be better for later chapters, instead I got rng screwed)
What is up with that, I put
Grey: merc line then cavalier line
Kliff: merc line then mage (because high res growth)
Faye: mage (because I will always grind silque to be a saint before I even fight desaix [and other times like my 3rd or 4th playthrough I even overclass her])
Tobin: merc then archer (merc line has the best skill growth If I remember correctly)
Atlas: I don't pay attention to him for some reason and I don't even try to grind him because the way I grind kills him in about 100 turns (fear mountain shrine the Cantor in the first room) and he only levels up 4-5 times
Mage Kliff is so good, though?
Yeah!
that gets /quickly/ replaced by python. whereas archer tobin doesn't
not sure why the consensus seems to be to play the instant gratification game with the villagers in a game where all units are deployed outside on dungeons.
yes, thank you for agreeing with me that archer kliff is bad at base.
and that's his problem. you literally get python in the next dungeon.
like tobin on the other hand has better hit than python and access to two good supports right off the bat that basically insure he'll deal more damage.
the argument is that kliff should be thrown away as a archer sub for python. but why waste kliff that way?you might as well not even use kliff if you're gonna make him an archer just because you overvalue excalibur that you're willing to turn tobin into a diet luthier for it.
you think you can make that statement more coherent? because i have absolutely no clue what you're trying to convey.
solution, give him 2 speed from the spring in literally the first dungeon.
i always give kliff 2 speed and grey 1 at that well.
getting excalibur 3 levels earlier than kliff doesn't make for tobin's mediocre stats across the board
He still has a far better early game than Kliff, and the early game is where Mages are actually useful. By endgame Mages get shafted hard by huge maps and being locked to 4 movement, so Tobin falling off late game hardly matters when Kliff basically suffers the same fate as a Mage. Tobin at least gets Physic to continue contributing while Kliff's White magic pool only consists of Recover. Luthier and the mages in Celica's party (minus Boey) are better long term options than Mage!Kliff if you absolutely feel like having an offensive mage for the endgame.
Strigiform Early game mage Kliff isn't bad either because of the enemies low res.
Yes, it's true that enemies have low res, but what is Kliff doubling with his awful AS? tobin actually doubles a lot of enemies even with Fire because with +3 Speed from the lion head he reaches 9 base speed, which is 6 effective AS while using Fire. He also learns Excalibur at Level 6 which further bolsters Tobin's early game.
Strigiform well you're forgetting the fact that kliff's speed is probably going to skyrocket due to his 60% speed growth (one of the best speed growth in the game). by the time kliff does get excalibur (once again only 3 levels after tobin) he basically makes tobin irrelevant and slaughters the midgame
60% growth hardly matters when your base speed is only 2 and your effective AS with Fire is only 1 after promotion. True, Kliff is better in the long term, but you have to drag along a very bad unit from the start and hope he can eventually pick up steam (and by the time he does get good Luthier shows up), whereas Tobin has a really good start and makes a great mage right off the bat. Base stats are far more important than growths, and being good in the early game is far more valuable than being good in the late game.
Gotta love how everyone's defense on Mage!Cliff is "he was good in my playthrough so he must be good overall"
well there's quite a lot of people who say that so the argument certainly doesn't lack weight. plus everything boils down to your luck with the rng. my mage!kliff did very well though i must note that i did double down on kliff's training after he died once for me in the second map. but he did get consistent speed growth as well as somewhat consistent atk, skl, and def growth so i could' have just gotten lucky as well.
RNG is inconsistent. My Lyn in 7 caps strength speed and skill every time I play but that doesn't stop her from being one of the worst units in her game.
Made Kliff a mage in two different playthroughs. Didn't regret it then. Still don't regret it now.
I made Kliff a Cavalier on one run, and then a Mercenary on another. He was good both times. That doesn't mean those classes were good for him as a unit.
Matthew Greer Whatever works. At the end of the day luck is the deciding factor on if he unit turns out good or not but if a lot of people are saying their mage Kliff was good then it must hold at least some weight. And as long as he does get good growths as a mage he's got that huge spell list to take advantage of.
Seriously? Kliff's worst class is mage?
For me, he turned out to be an amazing tank that deals pretty great damage. Although, he does fall short on the res side.
Tobin, gray, Forsyth, Lukas, Python, clive, Faye, and ALM, all have worse res, and those are the ones i remember on Alms route.
2 words, coral ring
How is Kliff learning Excalibur at level 9 not worth it? I could see if it was above level 10 but anything below that is pretty easy to get, not to mention this game actually let's you grind. Him being doubled honestly doesn't matter unless he's dealing with other mages because of his bulk and he usually kills things in one shot.
I think I broke my Faye... she got speed almost every single level for me... she is now a level 10 cleric with 13 speed and 15 attack! please send help xD
She probably has 13+ Def too. She is now a black hole. Watch your enemies run into her and die
Oh shit. She's turned into Gatrie.
faye is actually a better cleric than silque in my playthrough. better growths (silque has been getting only 1 stat growth per level for the last chapter, kind of annoying really), better attack, physic, silque has died many times for me while faye has not. silque's high res is a boon as opposed to faye's poorer defenses but i think faye is more useful in her job as a healer (though silque does make a good res shield, which doesn't really work out since most of alm's route has physical enemies.
If you abuse the turnwheel by rewinding when you get crap growths, you can build bad units into ok ones and good ones into absolute monsters. (Forsyth with 25 speed and 25 Def is now officially a semi truck)
@@loganbests9455 What, you were in my way!
I don't regret making Kliff a mage xD he destroyed everything a lot of enemies early on have bad res so getting him to level up till getting Excalibur wasn't really much of a hassle
I really like Mage Kliff as his high speed lets him double a lot of enemies with Sagittae, which is something that my Luthier couldn't do due to being RNG screwed. Also Sagittae + Mage Ring allows you to cheese most bosses.
Helpful stuff here! On future playthroughs I'll definitely experiment with Merc!Gray, Mage!Tobin and Archer!Kliff, and now I know what to do with Atlas! Thanks Ghast!
Noooo one~
Hits like Mage Kliff,
Gets the Crits like Mage Kliff,
Tanks the hits for the rest of his team like Mage Kliff~
(All in good fun, Ghast. You have a right to your opinion and playstyle.)
"In previous titles, a unit's AS had to be 5 higher to double."
I may be wrong, but I believe most of the games before Awakening needed a 4 AS advantage, not 5.
I wish classes other than Merc lineup could villager loop.
Gray is a sick mercenary. Not only is it his canon class, if that matters to you, but it also makes for a second effective swordfighter alongside Alm, and eventually Delthea upon promotion.
If you want Desaix's Dracoshield in the final chapter of act 1, you NEED to make Faye into a cleric. Rescue and Physic are huge helps, as is having a second healer in general.
Kliff is actually a fantastic mage, and Tobin's a sick archer with that skill growth. He hit way more often than f*cking Python and, dare I say, he holds a torch to Leon.
I personally always make Atlas a mercenary. Yes, you get three, potentially four, more mercenaries, but Celica's route has SO MANY magic-using enemies, the more dread fighters you have, the better, especially if you want a better chance at snagging Jedah's Dracoshield. With all the other magic wielders on Celica's team already, you do not need another gimmicky one, so Mage is a bad idea. Cavalier, while tempting as Celica only gets a single one on her route and it's not until way later in the game, bear in mind the terrain on Celica's route is just awful... Lots of deserts and swamps, which cavaliers do not do well in, so, more often than not, they cannot effectively make use of their awesome movement, unlike on Alm's route. Granted, I don't believe Dread fighters fare much better movement-wise on Celica's route, but at least they resist magic much easier, which will greatly help Atlas out with his garbage-resistance stat.
Yo, I went with exactly those same promotions. Nice.
edit: To all the people that see Kliff as a good Mage, he is a good Mage with a good spell list, but he sucks in the Early Game. Tobin learns the only spell you really need at a really low level, anyway, and he also gets Physic as a Sage. He's good out of the box and can stay good for quite a while, having utility as a Healer, whereas Kliff learns no special White magic. Kliff is a serious long-term commitment as a Mage while Tobin and Luthier can put in work straight out of the box.
Wayward Alchemist 2 words buddy.
"Thief Shrine"
Just dump some speed points into him and your argument is automatically null/void.
Solemn Tsymetrii you COULD blow all 3 points of Speed on Mage Kliff, but his Speed will still be bad. If you get him to Level 3 and proc Spd both times, he'll have 7 Speed (4 AS) after the Lion Head boosts. However, Tobin starts with 6 Speed, and with one level or Lion Head boost he has already matched Kliff. With max Lion Head investment, Tobin has 9 Speed, or 6 Attack Speed, without leveling Speed. 6 AS will let you double just about everything in Ch.1, and if Tobin can double he doesn't need to be babied as much as Kliff and can score kills a lot easier. When he gets Excalibur at Level 6, he may as well get a 2 Speed level up right off the bat as well as gaining Power and Crit. Tobin has the tools to shine right out of the gate and keep up with the rest of the pack in terms of Experience without needing to be babied at first. Additionally, Mage!Kliff could easily be Archer!Kliff, who is an even better growth unit for his insane range, especially when he gets a horse. Hell, he could even be Cavalier!Kliff or Merc!Kliff and put his Defense growth to work as a front line unit.
Wayward Alchemist I don't see Tobin working long term like I can with Kliff. Even if Tobin has all the tools to succeed early on, that doesn't mean it'll stay that way. Kliff is by far a better investment long term, getting Excalibur only 3 levels later than Tobin, and having a longer and more varied spell list that allows for more strategies.
Merc Kliff will definitely get strength screwed and is outclassed by Grey, Cavalier might work.
Solemn Tsymetrii Your argument is invalid because Mage just isn't a good long-term class, anyway. Maps are huge towards the end game and Mages are stuck at 4 Movement forever. If we're looking at long-term, Cavalier and Archer are Kliff's best options because they go well with his stat spread and give him incredible Movement.
Wayward Alchemist My argument is invalid because of a measly 4 move? That doesn't make or break a class, only makes it take longer. If the character in question is amazing at what they do, why dump them for a reason like that? By your logic all mages are shit, including Luthier AND Tobin.
Atlas is a pretty good rescue and heal bot with his insane attack (which translates to range when using rescue); he's also the only one that can use rescue in Celica's route. Atlas can nuke anything that comes to close to him using sagittae. It does about 37 attack power before promotion to a sage (lvl 12 mage; He'll have 21 atk on average by then)
On a side note, there IS a Cavalier type unit in Celica's route. Cavalier is by far Atlas' worst class imo.
While Luthier does join with excalibur. He joins slightly underleveld and has mediocre bases. So Kliff will probably be a better mage, though not by that much. Having more mages in Alm's route is never bad though; especially in the early game.
I can see what you mean about Mage Kliff. While I personally think it's amazing for him, you're right that he doesn't have access to his better spells until later on.
That being said, Luthier hasn't been seeing much work. His low speed doesn't compliment how good Excalibur is, so he's been relegated to healing duty.
I made Kliff a mage and despite what Ghast said, it is Luthier who gets overshadowed by Kliff. Not the other way around. My Kliff can hit like a truck and thanks to his supports he almost always has 100% hit rate and at the lowest 90%. This combined with my Kliff's amazing speed allowing him to double even with Sagittae and his decent defense is why Cliff is so much better Luthier. Of course Delthea is better than them both combined. With her it is almost like resistance isn't a thing.
Me, who made Faye a cavalier on my first run and she ended up being my second-best unit: 👀
You didn't recruit Mathilda nor Zeke, did you ?
I made Grey a mercenary, he nearly soloed Nuibaba's level.
Tobin became an archer, once I gave him a Killer bow, when put near Gray he became the crit master. He took out Hestia and Marla in the final map *by himself*
Kliff turned out a great mage as he got a ton of Speed from levels, to the point of even doubling enemies with Sagittae. Trading around the magic ring between him and Delthea became a commonplace tactic in the late game. Somehow Delthea, who doesn't learn Excalibur, got almost as many crits as him.
Made Faye into a pegasus knight. She ended up with more defense than any other flier, which was great for baiting enemies and fighting terrors. It's probably still not as good as making her a cleric, but it was good nonetheless.
My Atlas got super RNG screwed, for his 50% Attack growth, he only got *ONE* point in the entire game, which is absolutely terrible. He was an useful archer, but Leon beat him in the long run.
or you could like, dump the +3 speed on mage!kliff to make his earlygame as strong as his mid to lategame
Or you could dump those into Tobin to bump his base 6 speed to base 9 speed and have him stay fast for the entire game.
Or you could dump those into Lukas to let him double attack enemies for all of act 1 and act 3, and let him to snowball to promotion quicker.
Or you could dump those into Alm and let him double literally everything the game throws at him.
Positive reinforcement reinforces positive reinforcement. All three of those units are already great, and investing into stronger units to make them stronger is almost always better in this series than investing into weaker units so they can catch up to stronger units.
Or you could promote him later after his very good speed growth makes up for his bases.
The speed of leveling goes down extremely heavily past level 10. One of the things promoting does is reset the rate at which you level up back to level 1, so characters who have just promoted gain levels much quicker than characters who are a few levels away from promotion.
If you want to help Kliff's speed, promote him as quickly as possible. He'll level up quicker and get a bunch of quick levels to gain speed with. He won't have as much speed long term, but that's not important to him.
My Hard Mode Kliff must have gotten blessed with growths cause he has so far, destroyed all in his path by spamming double thunder.
I didn't know Atlas' growths in speed and skill were so poor. He gained so many points in those stats in my current playthrough.
I beg to differ with kliff. I made him a mage and he ruins everything. with that high defence build and just pump him with res gear and springs he was the biggest power house on my team next to grey
Kliff is still a good unit, but it's not because you made him a mage. It's because he's pretty good as anything.
Thank you so much for the help, Ghast! I was really worried that I might have made the worst possible decisions in Echoes. But now that I've seen your video, it relieved me a bit that I didnt make the wrong choices.
Tobin will be better than Kliff as a Mage for Chapter 1, the easiest part of the game.
Kliff will be better for the rest of the game. Not sure if mine learned Excalibur near the end of Chapter 1 or right at the beginning of Chapter 3. But he was my MVP from Chapter 3 right up to the endgame.
I see your point if you're going to LTC, but otherwise, Kliff is just better when the game starts to get a bit harder.
So...
Mage!Gray, Soldier!Tobin, Soldier!Kliff, Cavalier!Faye, and Mage!Atlas _for my second playthrough?_
*Challenge accepted, Ghast.*
Why was this reuploaded?
i mean he makes a good case for mage tobin, but i feel like tobins skill growth is wasted on a mage as magic is a set hit rate, i made mine an archer to better benifit from the skill
I made Kliff a mage and can say that as a mage he really shined in the mid-game. He was a decently bulky mage with good speed, so he could hold his own on the front lines in the mid-game. By the time I got Luthier, Kliff outclassed him, and Kliff's good speed growth allows him to take abuse from archers a lot better than Luthier can, which is the biggest problem for many mages in the game. He sort of fulfills the role that Boey does, being a bulkier mage that isn't great at dealing damage compared to some of the other mages (although they still do good damage because of the low res on a lot of the enemies), but can handle taking damage pretty well. By end-game, he really can't compare to Delthea if you train her, but should end up better than Luthier.
I'm gonna offer up my own two cents on the matter, based on my playthrough:
Gray, I need to disagree with to a degree. I do admit that Gray's off to a slow start as a mage, but his sheer damage output can certainly make up for having a slightly lacking Speed growth and only having Fire until later. He is also one of the only two male villager mages (other is Kliff) who can fight at far range, and while it comes later, it still won't be a significant issue to pick those up before you start seeing huge amounts of ranged enemies. Sagittae is also incredibly powerful on him, and while its meh accuracy hurts him, having 2 easily available passive supports and 2 support chains will fix its hit rate (I've seen him have 80 hit with it), and promoting to Sage will fix it even more. I wouldn't say its his best, but I'd still say its not bad at all for him (and Cavalier potential is hurt because of Zeke, Clive, and Mathilda, all of whom are equal or better at start.
Tobin, I can't disagree, but I'd like to make a case of how good Mercenary!Tobin can be. For one, his high skill, on top of the already high Mercenary skill growths, can turn him into a real crit machine, which can help fix his modest Attack stat. Second, giving him a Lightning Sword really makes him shine, as it gives him a solid, consistent damage output, and his high Skill can help him get past the Lightning Sword's negative crit modifier.
For Kilff... I almost need to disagree entirely (I can't comment on Archer!Kliff). Mage is definitely a good class for Kliff, as while his Atk is shaky and he's off to a slow start, his Speed should be able to pick up enough that the weight issue won't hurt him that much; the low Res of most earlygame enemies will make his early Attack issues less relevant, and his early Speed issues can be lessened some by the Thieves Shrine Speed spring. Also, Soldier/Knight/Baron Kliff is scary - the Str gained on promotions can fix his shaky Str growths, and his high Defense and Speed (and good Res) can make him a very good Speed Tank once you get some levels on him. And Cavalier is one of the worst for him, I'd argue, because of competition again, only it's that Mathilda is a slightly better version of him; also, while one could argue Gold Knight can fix his offensive stats, the process of reaching that is much longer than the Soldier line, and the other cavaliers would be just as good or better at that point.
Faye, I'd agree. Her overall potential as a Cleric is certainly beautiful, especially as you can have her and Silque help each other very beautifully.
Atlas, I agree too, but I'll give him some extra brownie points here as a Soldier. It was definitely a slow start for him, but given his massive starting Atk, his offensive potential is about equal to Valbar's, and he's faster than Valbar at the start, too. As his starting Atk is so very high, mixed with his high Atk growths, he can easily be dealing out Knight or even BARON levels of damage while still a Soldier, so he's definitely a force to be reckoned with. I would argue Mage is also his maybe second worst, and bump Cavalier to worst, due to the fact that his low Def and Speed stats and growths will harm his frontline potential as Cavalier, while at least Mage can benefit from the low Res of most enemy units to make it easier for him to take out enemies.
That's just my feeling on the matter, though. Great video, all the same, and good for newbies to give this video a look over, as the advice would definitely help some.
Hijinks Gamma
I made Atlas a cavalier, and gave him a Silver Lance. He's a complete nuke, as he was Speed blessed, making him have only 2 points of speed less than *SPOILER* masked cavalier. The Silver Lance is really light for a weapon that powerful, and as a Gold Knight, even with his shaky 7 Skill, he does really well at doubling, tanking and hard hitting, making potential crits not that useful.
On my next run I might do that as well.
And on my third, I might do a full archer run !
"Matilda is a better cav than Kliff"
Not even close.
He will have a big lead on her and she only has a small but of res over him.
Cav Kliff is his best class. Gets him off the ground the fastest, and he stays excellent all the way through.
Something tells me Atlus would make a great Barbarian unit if you were able to class into that.
tbh you can have god like growths in on class, but that doesnt stop the rng from making them trash ; A ;
I made Gray a mercenary, he gets tons of critical hits.
I made Kliff a Mage, he also gets tons of critical hits and is fantastic.
I made Faye a Cavalier, she's now one of my best units with her Ridersbane, I completely disagree with Cavalier being her worst choice, she was alwlays miles better than Clive and Mathilda..
I made Tobin an archer because... I needed another one.
Kliff falling off to Luthier? What the heck? Kliff is honestly one of my best units while Luthier struggles to do damage to anyone and survive any hits.
2 years old but whatever.
Their classes are hinted at and what to level them up at if you inspect the environment:
Kliff - Mage, Alm comments on the scorch and burn mark onto the house, implying that he's a mage.
Tobin - Archer, Alm comments on the arrows onto the sacks by Tobin, implying that he's a archer.
Gray - Merc, Alm comments on the slashed fence when training, implying that he's a merc.
Faye - Wasn't orginally in FE:G, but make her whatever you want, cleric is highly recommended.
I got a bone to pick with you man. When you did this vid or seems you cared more about adding your opinion to the cliff debate then giving an actual guide. Cliff is objectivley better as a mage than as a solider, yet you said mage was his worst class? I get cliff mage may not be optimal,however almost anything cliff is good and solider cliff is the only option that wastes his potential.
I made Faye a Mage.
I'm only just started Act 2, so I'm not sure how she'll fare late game. But gods. She is scary. I gave her a leather shield and she both tanks and kills. It's probably due to early enemies having low res, but she is very much fulfilling her vow from that first support conversation with Alm.
She sets her enemies on fire with a Miladamn smile on her face.
Waiiiiiit a second, hold on there partner.
Tobin's worst class is definitely not Soldier. He has the highest base speed of any Knight, and, coupled with 1-2 boosts from the Speed fountain in the early game, he'll double everything in chapter 1 and all tier 1 enemies in chapter 3. The Defense and Strength bases of the Baron mitigate his mediocre growths in those areas, and, unlike Forsyth, he can actually hit things. He falls off a bit once he stops doubling, but he can still make a decent tank thanks to the sheer beefiness of the Knight line.
Andrew Zech I read this in laslows voice and im offended
That One Artist Rofl, I can hear it too.
You know when Tobin is flexible when he can make fucking Soldier work.
I mean, he's stuck with 4 mov with no reliable way to get range w/o lossing all this AS or spending this moneyz, and his meh growths start to catch up with him sooner rather than later.
I'd say that Soldier is his worst option because of it but he still makes it work well compared to say Gray or Atlas as anything other than a Merc or Archer.
Andrew Zech q
Did a mini challenge to see how the units with their worst classes. I can just tell you, most of this is wrong. Faye as a fav is really good becuase she’ll be moving far and has a decent res stat at the start, speed and attack is really good too, only thing bad is a little bit of def but gold knight gives her the some she needs. Gray is a archer is the best decision I’ve made In this game
Mage Kliff is bad because Mage as a class in general is mediocre, what with that trash 4 movement. All your healers get access to Seraphim, which is really all you need in offensive magic
Kliff does far better as an archer, getting a dope-ass 8 movement and access to a Killer Bow, which absolutely rules
The only reason Tobin makes a good mage is because he gets access to Physic, which keeps him relevant in the late-game as a staffbot
This whole Luthier vs Kliff thing makes no sense to me just because he learns excalibur at lvl 9 is nothing mt kliff was a speed demon and already ready to promote into a sage when I picked Luthier up Luthier is slow and just because he has the same spell on pick up as Kliff doesn't defeat the purpose of making him into a mage they are just handing you a 2nd mage with what they think you'll already have so now you have two mages Kliff obviously being the better of the 2 and higher lvl.
However, fire and Excalibur are his only offensive spells
Its YaBoi215 Not like you need anything else
Thunder would be nice
I like it how he purposely downplay's Thunder's utility to make Kliff look worse and Tobin look better as mages. And how hard he exaggerates a 3 level difference with below level 10 exp gains.
PKLooove In a game like Echoes where you struggle to level up past lvl 7, 3 levels means a lot. But yeah, Thunder is far from being a bad spell
Cherry Black getting past 7 isn't a struggle at all (especially for Kliff) anything past ten then maybe but below that it's easy.
Gray was the best archer i ever had in fire emblem game (after takumi and Rolf)
Tobin was a awesome early/mid game cavalier, but in the late he kinda lost to mathilda and Zeke
Kliff was one of the best magic attack based unit i ever had(losing to Robin, Morgan, Corrin Lewyn, Ced[cause forseti OP] ) and as "mage" was the best, he simply killed everything in one turn, tanked everything, AND THIS GUY WAS MY COUNTER TO DREAD FIGHTERS, A MAGE THAT COUNTER DREAD FIGHTERS.
Faye was my cleric, or what i called her, my berserk healer, she killed everything in the name of alm(the only "yandere" i like)
Atlas did nothing the entirely play
Tobin best mage. He just werks. lmao all these people at Kliff's 'canon' class. Yeah he's alright if you dump all those kills and resources on him. But Echoes is promotion gains: the game. I left him in Ram village with Faye.
but cliff is still better though
why tf would you leave behind recruitable characters? the more the merrier. if they die oh well (if you play on classic)
I can see where Kliff's slow start as a mage could be a problem, but it's good to remember that you can dump all the points of speed from the first spring area into him giving him 8 speed at promotion to mage. This keeps him from begin doubled in most cases and his might is good enough to finish off enemies getting him his first levels (which will usually result in more speed due to his 60% growth rate). If you prep him in the beginning carefully it quickly becomes manageable and you get a large pool of spells.
whoops, i made grey a mage for the lawls...
and faye a cavalier....
To be honest I think faye wouldn't be bad as a cavalier, she seems more like a tanky person so i think the added HP and def from the cavalier line might be better for her. In fact i might make her a cavalier too.
I like to consider these recommended discussions as fringe scenarios where one wants to have the villagers reach their peak potential as units, as the game isn't balls-to-the-wall hard that it is always necessary. There is leeway, so Faye being a cavalier may be bad for her potential, but not so if you only need one cavalier from the early game. Now why one would want to make Grey a mage? Challenge run.
I was trying to be as ironic with their character as possible while still having no duplicate classes. Why am I not surprised it was dumb. Oh well, I'm just doing normal classic anyways.
Huy Phan Since you bring up the concept of challenge runs, I was actually tempted to do an all-magic user (and Alm because story) run myself.
I went ahead with Mage Kliff and Archer Tobin for consistency, given that examining the Scorch Marks on the side of Mycen's House results in Alm saying that Kliff must have been practicing a fire spell, and examining a pile of sandbags (at least, I think that's what it was) at the Village Entrance results in Alm saying that Tobin must've been practicing archery.
Mage Kliff has bad base stats and while he has a good spell list, only like 2 of those spells actually matter. And one of them is excalibur, which doesn't come until level 9. By this point, you either have Luthier already or are getting close. idk why people seem to be under the impression that canon class = best class, the only villager where this is the case is Gray.
but Luthier is shit
also 10 base luck + Excaliburs high crit rate + Kliffs high speed
Critting isn't reliable enough to be a legitimate argument, and Kliff's high speed growth is outweighed by his poor base speed. Despite Tobin having a low growth of 25%, for instance, Kliff doesn't catch up to him until level 6 on average. That's actually a funny number, since it also happens to be the same level that Tobin gets Excalibur, which means that his speed will actually be higher than Kliff's for even longer. Once Kliff get's excalibur at level 9, then he might be able to beat out Tobin in terms of Attack Speed, but that's a long way off. Kliff doesn't start being useful unitl then, and by that time you're going to have Mathilda, who basically stomps the game anyway. Because Kliff has 4 mov, he won't be able to keep up with her, unless Silk warps him, but she's better off warping Alm or Gray anyway.
I was hoping someone would bring that up. Giving Tobin at least 2 of the speed boots from the first dungeon is actually a very good idea, as it allows him to double nearly every enemy in chapter 1. This further widens the gap. As for that last speed boost, Kliff could certainly benefit from it, but so could a lot of others like Lukas, Silk, or Faye. Pegasus cheese doesn't come until later anyway, and once again you're going to get Luthier and Mathilda.
But you see: Kliff makes a better use of the 1st speed boosts just that once and he's good and you can use the other dungeon lion heads on other characters. Most of the enemies in Alm's route abuse terrain and since archers can't hit to begin with Tobin's screwed. Plus I saw plenty of cases where Archer Tobin's able to catch up even if Kliff or someone else got the speed boosts.
Tobin's mastery with accuracy and supports boosts filling the gap archer aim usually leaves and Kliff being a beast as a mage works well!
Delthea is a glass canon, Luthier isn't that good and Kliff has the advantage of unit availability since the start so even if he's behind for some reason he won't be behind by much.
well this is assuming you have Tobin as a mage because that's his best option. basically no matter what Tobin becomes, those 2 speed boosts help him reach an important benchmark, so there's basically no reason to ever not give it to him. You're needlessly handicapping yourself.
Even giving Kliff all 3 speed boosts will have him end up at 7 speed, which is 4 with Fire. You're still not doubling anything except some archers and bandits with that. If you get lucky on the next few level ups and he gets some more speed, he'll be able to double some soldiers. You're still not doubling any cavaliers, of which there are a fair few.
Meanwhile, giving Tobin 2 speed as a Soldier, Cavalier, or Archer, he can double every single enemy in chapter 1 outside of mercenaries and some bosses. If you give him 2 as a mage, he can double every archer, bandit, and soldier. Once he gets excalibur he'll most likely be doubling cavs as well. So he doubles more consistently than Kliff, all while requiring one less speed boost than him. This allows you to open that speed up to someone else.
I made Atlas a merc and I do not regret it. My reasoning was that we had so many mages that ranged attacks were covered. Plus I couldn't help but make him a one hit killer with that perfect strength growth he had going. He hits so hard and with the merc class can use skills that help with crit rate early on top of already being able to hit like a truck. I thought about making him an archer but I decided against it because dem muscles were made for smack downs not stringing bows. XD Nah, but given the growth he had in my playthrough so far he seemed to be getting more out of being a merc and is far outstripping the rest of my motley crew of mercs. The only one who seems to be competing with him in the usefulness department is Jesse who seems to really like getting all of his stats up per level.
Mage Kliff is good, and it doesnt take to much time to get lv9 and excalibur. Faye as a cleric is so so, 60% on Nosferatu aint working for me :(
why are you using your healer for offense?
cause it's fun ! Nosferatu is cool!
I play ofensive bruh, never liked dancers but i dig the early physic
lol i remember i had great luck with the rng during chapters 1 and 2, cleric!faye, silque, and genny often scored more kills than everyone else just cuz theyd always double hit with nosferatu lol
if you get the supports with Alm or Silque (i think it was Alm), her hitrate goes up to 80%. and let me tell you, Faye is a monster if you put the time in (her atk is friggin 35 as a lvl 5 saint).
I actually use faye as a mage, she's actually pretty good
The amount of people trying to claim Mage!Kliff is good brings me physical pain
It's because Mage!Kliff was arguably the best Kliff in Gaiden (even in Gaiden I think Cavalier was a more consistent option) and they push Mage as his canon class.
All these people not making faye into a mage need to get their priorities straight. She gets a ton of accuracy from supports, turning seraphim into a more damaging excalibur that is effective against monsters. Her growth rate in speed and attack as a mage is respectable and she routinely doubles if you give her a single point of speed from the altar in the thief shrine.
After class changing she just becomes a version of Celica you get on Alm's route. With incredible damage, sword access, effective damage versus monsters, good speed, Freeze and a phenomenal defense for a mage, Faye is an excellent asset to Alm's route.
She doesn't have the rescue cheese ability, but you don't need it when you can just stand in a bush and solo the enemy army.
Mage Tobin won't be as good as Mage Kliff. The only things he has going for him against Mage Kliff is learning Excalibur 3 levels earlier. That's it. Literally the only thing Mage Tobin will be good for is early game. His SPD starts to fall to the wayside, and by the midst of chapter 3 it'll already have Mage Kliff at the same level of spd. Archer Tobin works better, as it allows him to take advantage of what will be his main stat, Skill. Yeah, bases and all that, but with Villagers, whose whole purpose is to grow, the bases won't matter nearly as much as how they grow.
Mage Kliff is frigging amazing. This guy clearly doesn't know how to build his classes.
Green Storm You're not helping your case by just insulting Ghast.
There are a lot of reasons why Tobin is the better mage. First off, earlier excalibur. It's the best normal range spell by a huge mile, and Tobin getting it so early makes his early game extremely potent, especially since early game is where the mage class shines the most.
Next, base stats. Tobin's got 6 base speed and Kliff has 2. After promotion Kliff will have an AS of 1. That's terrible, he can't double almost anything and gets doubled while having shaky bulk. Tobin's base speed lets him deal with fire's weight better. Even with the growth difference, it takes until like level 10 for Kliff to have even a slight lead in speed.
Next is how they'll do with investment. Both want some speed boosts from the furst lion well, but Tobin gets better results. With 2 boosts he doubles all the enemies for a while with a high damage output, letting him snowball to excalibur, and then even further. Mage Tobin is an outstanding unit in chapter 1. Kliff won't double as many enemies even with 3 boosts.
Next, late game. Yes Kliff will have higher overall stats, but he can make use of those in any class. And sage is a class that falls off pretty hard due to low movement in a route full of cavaliers. Both Tobin and Kliff will have trouble seeing combat outside of dungeon encounters. But Tobin gets physic, allowing him to contribute despite lower movement. Kliff only gets recover.
Finally, supports. Tobin gets crit from Gray allowing him to abuse excalibur better, while Kliff only gets hit from Tobin. The hit's not going to help nearly as much due to magic having fixed hit rates. It's more valuable to use that hit support in a class like cavalier or archer.
First off, they're villagers. Their whole point is to grow, since they're with you for every step of the journey. Secondly, skl. Kliff gets horrible skill, which is fixed by the mage class due to not needing it. Tobin gets lots of skl, which may be good for like, 3% more crit, or use him as an archer and he'll actually hit.
Kliff gets Sagittae, allowing him to actually hit. Both have horrible str, but having a spell that doesn't have a 30% chance of doing anything is good.
Mage Tobin is the worst physic user in the game. Faye and Tatiana will both have higher ATK allowing in more range, so either you have the worst physic user or a heavy hitter within dungeons (which make up the entirety of act 5.)
My mage Kliff is a monster who outclasses luithier in every way
All in all who cares what the best classes are? Just do what you want.
To clear the game faster and to not let filthy casuals spread lies to newcomers.
Juan776 Sure, the "recommended" classes guide can be a thing; but people should still do what they want.
I made Kliff a Merc and gave him the Bolt Sword. He's practically a Mage that always doubles and doesn't eat away at his own health.
Ghast, plz don't do the whole "best class & worst class" thing, imo you're wrong on at least half the villagers in that regard.
Kliff suffers initially due to poor base speed, but implying he's screwed because of this is simply wrong when you consider how consistently he'll have leveled speed since his recruitment. Odds are he's already gotten 1 or 2 points from his level ups before even GETTING the option to promote, where you can choose to dump even more speed on him at the fountain. Thunder is niche and therefore you should stick to Fire for the most part, but waiting for Excalibur isn't that big a problem to begin with because of how shit everyone's res is early on. It's easily his best class. His worst from what I've seen is likely Mercenary as his strength can potentially fall behind. Soldier is nice on Kliff as well because the promotion gains make up for his growth rates in those areas, and he'll consistently doubly where Lukas and Forsyth will fail you.
Tobin is an interesting case. I'm puzzled as to how Ghast thinks a class that mostly negates his best attribute is his best class, but I will give credit where it is due and admit that Tobin makes a potent mage. However, Archer is much more suitable to his growth pool, and with hit rates as shaky as they are, Tobin will shine in his consistency with how reliable pot shots are. I haven't had the opportunity to try out Soldier but I'm confident that Mercenary won't suit him well, and neither will Cavalier in the long run.
Atlas......oh boy.......First, I know that Cavalier is probably his worst class, but I plan to make him one for superficial reasons, so I'll let you know how it turns out, since you didn't even mention it in your video. You're smoking something you think Archer is any better. Hit rates are crap, and so are his. Archer will not make him any better at hitting things, and if anything, Mage will play to his strengths and AT LEAST let him hit something. It's actually one of his better classes, up there with imo his best, being Mercenary. I'm also told that he's the only one who can get Rescue on Celica's route, so that's another niche of his.
Make Grey a Mercenary, he'll turn out swell and you can't go wrong with another Dread Fighter on Alm's route. Cav is fine too, but Clive and Matilda are a thing, so keep that in mind.
Faye should be a Cleric, having another one to patch up Silque is a great idea, and she'll generally be outclassed in any other class she tries to accel in.
gotta agree with you on everything except atlas. granted i did grind on the side, archer!atlas must be using like a 300 lb bow or something cuz he murders full health enemies in one turn. i'd say he's a good merc off the bat (but i think 3 dread fighters is sufficient since they have high mov and celica's late game has a lot of arcanists). having a second bow knight to pick off cantor spawns or chip damage the cantors themselves is pretty useful imo.
tobin however, idk. it may be just by luck with the rng but archer tobin for whatever reason just gets real high def and hp when i need him to grow in skill spd and att. class changing to bow knight is helping for whatever reason (maybe that actually does boost his growth rates or maybe my luck with rng improved) but archer!tobin, while not bad, had trouble keeping up with python in the stats that i felt really mattered.
Jaewoo Kim Higher tier classes do indeed improve growth rates, and Archer does play to his strengths, but with how busted terrain is, I find his accuracy to average 30-60%. The high attack stat also lets him nuke things with his stronger spells. Not sure if he gets Thunder, but he can still avoid combat like how an archer would if he can learn it the spell.
"Tobin is an interesting case. I'm puzzled as to how Ghast thinks a class that mostly negates his best attribute is his best class, "
His best attribute is his high base spd, which is also what makes him the single best villager mage. As an Archer, Gray beats him(because Hunter Volley Gray is massively outdamaging him) and Kliff eventually beat him out too(and no, Kliff never does that as a mage, because Physic is better than anything on Kliff's spell list).
Also, Mage Atlas can't compete with Archer Atlas. At all. You can be toting a Killer Bow from the moment you make him an Archer, and have Hunters Volley before Grieth, and no mage stuff he can do really stand up to that. Rescue is a great late niche- but it's just that, late, way into his sage promotion.
Bösil Mage Tobin can't do a goddamn thing after early game outside of heals and occasionally finishing something off. The point of archers is to whittle down enemies from afar, the best ones either get consistent kills, or consistently hit when you need them to. Tobin can best take advantage of the archer line and almost never miss a single shot, all the way up until his Bow Knight promotion where they murder everything.
You absolutely must be joking for you to say that Physic is the best thing Kliff has over Tobin as a mage. Kliff gets Excalibur only 3 levels later, and will later get Aura and Arrow, both of which can be extremely useful at certain points.
Atlas NEEDS Curve Shot to even contribute as an archer. Ghast has been using Mage Atlas as a walking cannon with Saggitae, and we've all seen how effective of an option it can be. Also last I checked getting rescue at level 4 (pretty sure it's that) isn't late at all.
tbh, mercenary class is the best starting class for at least half the villagers, since at level 10 for dread fighters, you can go back to villager with all the stats they gained and take a new path along classes that can somewhat bring up the units lower stats.
I've spoken with a friend recently and we both came to the conclusion that Dread Fighter Atlus is a pretty good option. It patches up his shaky speed and even if he doesn't double reliably, he can hit like a truck with a Brave Sword. Sure, you get a lot more of them, but Dread Fighters are so good that it doesn't hurt to have another.
I just started playing Shadow of Valentia.
And god the pegasus knight class Faye can get is so frickin temptinggggg
well, lets see was Faerghast has to say and we'll see if I should or shouldn't resist the tempt
Gray excels as a Dread fighter. My first playthrough, I loved the Lightning Sword on him, even took him to Duma with it, but 2nd playthrough, I was struggling mid-game with enemies having higher resistances, so I made a Zweihander, and he'll probably Crit everything to death, lol. Tobin, I had him as a Bow Knight my 1st playthrough, doing it again for my 2nd because he's just that damn good at it. Hopefully I can make a couple Killer Bows for him and Python sooner, not later. Kliff, can't remember what I had him as 1st time, maybe a Mercenary too, but he's pulling his weight as a Mage. Can't wait to see what he does as a Sage, got him to that recently. Faye, I mighta had her as a Mage my 1st playthrough, I can't remember, but she's clutching as a Cleric so well. Definitely been saving my bacon more than once. Now Atlas...... I think I forgot about him my 1st playthrough. Added him to Party, but went North to the shrine before going to Grieth. 2nd playthrough, Mercenary, and he isn't doing too bad, I just didn't do Exp distribution well because Saber is murdering everything. Before the 1st Jedah fight, Imma do some grinding and finish some Side Quests, as well as send a couple weapons from Alm to Celica to hopefully balance things out. Climbing that damn tower after Jedah is gonna be a pain. Hope things go well this time.
I gave them classes based on personality and character appearance, though I did look at the stat changes, and I ended up with almost what you said for the best classes:
Tobin-Cavalier, Gray-Mercenary, Kliff-Archer, Faye-Pegasus Knight, Atlas-Mercenary
Although it did bother me that I ended up with Saber, Jesse, Kamui, _and_ Atlas as Mercenaries, I couldn't resist the sheer _growth_ that it gave him.
I followed the canonical classings.
Honestly, my Tobin is godly as a mounted archer. Was got as a sniper too, and outclassed python entirely.
Kliff as a mage, thanks to his decent Def and hp in my playthrough so far, murders things often in only one or two hits, and doesn't take much damage.
Gray as a mercenary just makes sense due to his low base speed, and the dreadfighter skills save him a lot.
I made Faye a Pegasus Knight due to knowing I'll get Silque really early on, but I was sad to find out Silque doesn't learn physic.
I made Atlas a mercenary, but I'm regretting that a bit, as his defense is hot garbage and his speed isn't too great either.
I agree that he should be an archer.
If you bought the XP DLC’s and the item DLC‘s no matter what get a star Jacinth and make every male villager mercenary first. once they are able to become villagers again make them into your desired class.
Says Kliff's worst classes are mage and soldier.
Everyone in the comments has him as a mage, and a good one at that.
I made him a soldier and he is the most OP unit in my squad.
KLIFF IS DA BOMB!
Old video but I wanna defend Ghast. He didn’t say that Kliff is a bad mage. He just said that it takes him a bit to get going. I think that Kliff ends up being one of your best units, and possibly the best villager due to his growths. Of course he takes a while to get going, his bases are garbage. But someone brought up him not getting doubled with Thunder because he defaults to Fire on enemy phase, while it is a good point, there’s a decent amount of enemies that can counter at 3 range, and even then, if he doesn’t double with Thunder, he has a 70 percent chance to hit, going up to 80 once he promotes.
Great video! I was looking forward to this so much ever since you mentioned working on it. Enjoyed it ! :)
Dread Fighters are just OP, so if you are doubting what class to go with, it's hard to go wrong with Dread Fighter
Mage kliff + healer Faye can solo any chapter when properly raised : Kliff's speed helps greatly as magic wheighs a lot and he has so much defense he is safe being teleported in the middle of the ennemies. Then he can hold a shield to add resistance, and Faye can heal him from far away. As most of the ennemies have very little res, you can watch them being wrecked by our favorite villager ;)
I made Gray a mercenary, Kliff an archer, Tobin a cavalier, Faye a Pegasus Knight and Atlas a cavalier. I think I did pretty good for not knowing much about echoes prior to.
Everybody's gloating about how great their Kliff mage is. Meanwhile I'm just chilling in the back with my kickass paladin Faye
I made Tobin a mage and Kliff an archer. Tobin made a pretty decent sage, especially since my Luthier didn't all that good. Well actually Luthier was okay, but Tobin was better. Delthea overshadows both of them, though. Also, you sure as hell can't go wrong with another physic user. Kliff made a good archer too, and overshadowed Python, who ended up sucking. (And dying so much that I just decided to carry on without Python.)
Also Faye gets a massive +20 hit via A support with Alm, along with +15 crit but -15 avoid. This could certainly be useful for all of her magic - particularly Nosferatu.
I didn't bother looking up optimal villager classes, so I made kliff a soldier. Believe it or not but he's pretty much my best unit late game after Mathilda. lv 3 baron, 142 rating. 23 atk, 17 spe, 19 def, 8 res. An armored unit that has the 3rd highest speed in the party and I only gave him maybe 2 speed points with springs. I think I just got really lucky with his lvl ups. My Lukas and Foresyth serve absolutely no purpose now whatsoever beside witch baiting.
I don't think MageKliff needs to worry about spells slowing him down. My Kiiff had 32 speed by the end of the game, and just crit everything anyways.
Archer Tobin was also amazing for me because he got a whopping 34 skill by the end without me even promoting him to bowknight yet.
I made Kliff a mage and he became one of my best units in alms route