Wish the rookie units got auto promoted in later games. Donnel for example would have been cool to turn to mercenary at 10 to not need a second seal on him.
@@actuallizard yeah and also feel earned when you do get him up. With enough planning donnel can keep up with early game and even main his map Same with wishing later games had these types to raise but better
I mean they sort of remedied this with Mozu and Jean where they're just in tier 1 classes. Mozu is in an exclusive (sort of) tier 1 class that promotes and Jean is just a martial monk
@@lagspike7763 mozu yes but not jean. He misses out on the entire prologue story and by then you can get a stronger healer especially if you know how to spam guard like azura dancing in early game giving you a high level unit for norh as your dancer
@@ivanbluecool I mean trainee units have always been pretty bad; Jean being outclassed isn’t really something to be surprised about. I thought you were talking about how Donnel specifically has a really weird promotion situation in that he … doesn’t. Whereas Jean can still promote like anyone else
First of all , as someone who did an Ironman of FE6 and was left with Trek as my only cavalry to use, he rose to the challenge and did well ill have you know! He capped his strength and defense so I was proud of him. He's also my favorite little guy amongst the cavalry don't ask me why he just is.
I believe another thing about promotion in Engage is that your exp gain is not slowed down at all by promoting? So there's absolutely no incentive to delay promotion for an eligible unit if you have a seal for them.
This is true. Exp is based on the unit’s internal level (i.e. the flat level that is untouched by promotions). For example, a level 3 sword master promoted at level 10 is the same internal level as a level 12 sword fighter and thus gets the same exp. I think it makes sense since it feels more rewarding to get a promotion seal if you can use it right away instead of tossing it in the inventory for another 5-8 chapters.
I’d prefer if the level system was like Genealogy or 3H where your level doesn’t reset upon promotion, that way it would be clear to the player that promotion doesn’t affect your experience gain.
In the DS games, Pegasus Knights normally promote with Master Seals like everyone else, and become Dracoknights. But they uniquely had an alternate promotion into Falcon Knights by giving them an Elysian Whip, which in FE11 was exclusive to the online shop. I think having rare, special promotion items to promote into special classes, in addition to generic Master Seals that change all classes into their normal promoted forms, would be a cool thing to include in future games. These could be rewards for certain difficult sidequests, with only a strongly limited amount of unique promo items in the game, enabling players to give their blorbo something special and unique.
Something to note about RD is that in the Japanese version, to get to tier 3 classes you *need* to use a Master Crown. This is why the JP version has a lot more Master Crown hidden treasures throughout the game. It's also why Mist needs to promote with a Holy Crown to get Valkyrie in all versions.
Does he have more hidden treasures?! 😞 I thought it deserved more respect as it would encourage you more the use of laguz and now it turns out it's worse because more hidden items.
Something I only found out a year or so ago is that the Master Crown hidden treasures had glowing tiles in the Japanese version. The localization not only removed them, it also removed the glow, which creates a minor plot hole as base conversations mention the glow a few times. (It's implied Yune is leaving the treasures to help the army)
Tellius and Level 21 wins for me. I really appreciated that units can bypass the need to use an item if the Seals are unavailable for whatever reason. I do wish more had been done with the additional weapon options, but at least Engage came through on that front.
Fates was, for me (as I haven't played Sacred Stones yet so I can't give an opinion on it in comparison), the peak style of promotion and reclassing for the games I've played, specifically for the reclass structure. Since units had a set promotion path of options, you could generally plan your skills and builds around the classes available to them, but the system really shines for me when you include the other two seal types and account for them in your builds. This allowed you to keep a "core" for each character but could still have some fun but limited (as in number of classes, not scope) flexibility. The ability to reclass someone into their spouse's or best friend's class added an extremely fun layer of wacky potential skills, while still keeping the class numbers relatively controlled so characters would still have their own unique qualities and stand out from others of their class. It was a really smart move, in my opinion. (It also did really cool things behind the scenes for character building as well, especially when you it would give you alternative classes instead because a character already had access to the main class a seal partner had, or when it would show some really cool detail of the character you might not normally see. For example, spoilers for Fates: Reclassing Takumi into Swordmaster gives him his father's armor and is a really neat touch.)
There's other balance quirks like that. For example, Defense is quiet a powerful Stat, since barely any enemy levels up during the game, having 10+ defense is enough to wall most of the game. This is why armor knights don't promote.
Tellius and Fates are probably my two favorite systems in the series. I love the option of just going through to level "21" and saving on the promo item. Part of what I love about Fates' system is the offspring seal. After chapter 18, all the kids get a seal that will let them promote and gain levels depending on how far into the game you are. One idea that I would love to see is a game with level "21" promo, class specific promo items (rare), and generic promo items (common). The main difference is the promo gains each method would give, for example: level "21" gives little to none, the class specific items give the best (and by a decent margin), and the generic items give something in the middle.
Jugdral was mine. No "muh efficiency", you get 30 levels and the promotion is simply a class change with stat and weapon skill gains that does not reset level. No promotion items either.
What if there was a game that had both general promotion items and specific promotion items? You could use the general promotion items to just get into the advanced classes, but specific promotion items could have base requirements that can open up a second, more unique/specialized advanced class (a la Sacred Stones). And/or maybe you can use it to open up a special skill for the advanced class.
Aside from Jagens becoming more accepted, the other huge advancement I'm proud of the FE Community for leaving behind more in the last 5-10 years is the mentality that you have to promote as late as possible to "maximize stat gains" when most FEs will never allow you to 20/20 units
While TearRing Saga has a lot of issues, one thing I love about it is how its promotion gains finally made a trainee unit amazing... to the point of succeeding TOO well. Narron is a Cav who starts a little weak, and unlike many he's a "high-payoff" unit not because of growths, but because Gold Knight gives him absolutely STUPID promo gains (+6 Strength and +7 Speed, among others). FE4 kinda did this with Lachesis and Leif as well, Master Knight being such a good class it made training them worth it. It's a rare time I've seen trainee units unanimously liked, and I feel anyone who wants to design a good trainee should take notes from that. (Narron's main issue was you get a Knight Crest one chapter after he joins and it's not hard to get him to Lv 10 before/during that chapter)
My favorite is, I think, Radiant Dawn. I really like being able to just level up into promotion, it feels like I worked for it, plus the master crown stuff for units that really need it removes some of the associated grind. Also really like having 3 tiers, I wish it was slightly better implemented in places, especially in enemies, but still the concept appeals to me.
Actually fe6 does have class base stats and promotion is based on class basses, the game simply swaps out the class bases and displays the difference as the promo bonuses, if two classes promoted into the same class or branch promo existed this would be noticeable so in theory a negative promo gain would be entirely possible infact if a class is hacked to have less base stats than it's unpromoted varient than negative promo gains show and are fully functional.
@@marcoasturias8520 It was changed in fe 7 for some reason [no playable classes promote into the same class like fe6] I could see an argument in sacred stones for wanting promo bonuses to be uniform and always giving a positive bonus as negative bonuses feel bad, and/or confusing to get, for casual and younger players [which the gba games were aimed at], however cavalier to great knight still loses a point of movement lol.
The Lizard Knight gains some standard bonuses, most notably to Str/Def/Spd as he is now more determined instead of as derpy. Most significant imo is his much needed boost to Res (akin to Paladins) as that now helps it against ice magic attacks a bit, and he gains a massive boost of up to +30 Charisma making him a go to for gambits. Gaining a higher level of intelligence and influence over the masses as indicated by his crown. He also of course gains access to swords, on top of his fist weapons. But fists should still be his go to as his switch controller personal weapon will remain his most damaging weapon till he ultimately unlocks the switch 2.
Shining Force handles promotion differently: it increases your growth rates massively, but it also lowers your stats by 15%, since your characters aren't used to their new powers yet. On top of that, the remakes make promotion reset your internal level, resulting in spellcasters not getting their top-tier spells if they promote until after an insane amount of leveling (and they'll possibly never see them). Promotion done at a bad time makes most characters worse, but is largely worth it overall.
Is this for SF1 and/or 2? I've been playing 3 as my first Shining game(s) and it seems like there is absolutely no downside to instant promotion and stats never decrease
something about promotion in genealogy and thacia is that the promotion bonus is just the gap between the bases of your class and the class you would promote, also in FE4 all caps are just class bases +15 (those 15 are the personal stats of your unit without the class bases), example the bard class have base speed of 10 and cap of 25 so when promotes to sage they gain +5 making the base 15 speed and the cap is 30 speed
I believe the only game with non-minimum promo bonuses that *doesn't* use the gap between classes as promotion gains is SS, where the promotion bonuses are set in the class screen. Maybe GBA software couldn't handle the logic for having branching promos when the promos could give negative Stat gains. Negative Stat gains are quiet common in 3DS FE, much after GBA, and Telius didn't have branching promos.
Some combination of Tellius and Sacred stones. Personally i prefer level 21 promotes over items for the exact reasons you like master seals over specific items in that i can simply use who i want to use without being restricted by a lack of item. I like Sacred stones having set classes for units which gives them a much stronger identity (unlike recent games...) but having the split option for promotion adds some fun personal flair into the mix. I also like how Sacred Stones handled trainee classes more than recent games
Hi Lizard! One of my favorite things about keeping up with this channel (aside from the great content and analysis, of course) is seeing how the Patreon list has grown and grown!
Two things: 1. You forgot the whole Draco knight falcon knight situation in DSFE 2. You’d never want to stay in an unpromoted class to get an unpromoted skill because you alreary get both unpromoted class skills by lvl 10 (unless you’re referring to getting unpromoted class skills from a class you seal into before promotion)
I believe in Awakening, reclassing to a promoted class won't allow that character to learn the skills of the level 1 and level 10 skills of the unpromoted class. So if Robin were to promote to Grandmaster and then reclass to Hero, he wouldn't learn Patience and Armsthrift.
In Fates, you get the unpromoted abilities leveling in the promoted class. But I believe in Awakening, the unit had to be in the unpromoted class for their abilities. I haven't played Awakening, tho.
I think a cool method of promotion that hasn't been tried yet would be to raise the unit up to the class bases, THEN give a preset bonus set of stats. That way, even units above the class bases can promote without the player feeling bad, as they'll still be gaining stats. But we also get the very interesting dynamic of being incentivized to promote weaker units.
@@TommySkywalker11I guess they mean for a game where level is reset and caps at 20. In 3h it doesn't really matter to promote early or late, so there's no chance to "feel bad".
I agree with your take on Three Houses. Having access to every class made since because the monastery system. This was a good place of gameplay and story integration. What did not make sense was how every unit can get into every other class in the DS system. This did not help the integration of gameplay and story.
I don't mind too much the promotion system but I appreciate keeping track of the level you promoted someone. After watching, the video made me realise 3 Houses works the exactly opposite of one thing I liked upon promotion: Getting weapon ranks increased. 3 Houses forces you to get the weapon rank in order to promote.
Speaking of choosing weapons in fe9, I really wish 3 houses had done something similar. Or even let you change around class skills the same way you change regular skills. Being able to use whatever weapons is kinda negated when you’re heavily incentivized to use the class’ -faire weapon. For me at least it usually boils down to having the class’ weapon type & a bow because bows are so good in that game.
Personally I loved the way Three houses promotions worked the most. I love the idea of just being able to make your characters whatever you want. This was also used in shadows of Valentia echoes and I love that game as well
In the DS Fire Emblem titles, Pegasus Knights can promote to Falcon Knights via Elysian Whip. But the Falcon Knight class is mutually exclusive with the Draco Knight class so promoting to Falcon Knight will lock you out of Draco Knight and vice versa. In Shadow Dragon the Elysian whip was only given to the player through the online shop but the DS online servers have been shut down, so players will have to resort to hacking to obtain the item. Thankfully in New Mystery there are three Elysian Whips that can be obtained in addition to the online shop. There is one in chapter 11, one in chapter 16 and a purchasable one in a secret shop in chapter 18, though you'll more than likely have to delay the promotion of your Pegasus Knights since they come a bit late.
Sacred Stones is def my favorite system. Though class balancing is a huge issue in that game, it isn't an inherent flaw of the system as much as it's just poor game balance, could probably be fixed quite easily. In an ideal world, I'd love a game with three tiers of classes, and branching promotions for each, but thats unlikely to ever happen
I like sacred stones’ promotion system the best, a little bit of choice but not so much choice that any unit can become anything. I really don’t like reclassing, I feel like it would just make all the units feel the same, but something I could get behind is a couple more promotion options
I think my favorite is Engage, where there is no downside to promoting ASAP but it is a competitive resource. But I like how promotion, along with many other mechanics, keeps changing and experimenting because it keeps the games fresh. That's one of the series' biggest strengths.
I always hate any leveling up system where I need to time, or put off, my promotions to optimize character builds. especially when it's to avoid level caps that you run into faster when you promote too eagerly.
I like the itemless promotion in the Tellius games the best. Being able to just promote by leveling up gives the player a lot more freedom to promote whoever they want. It's nice that they include Master Seals and also Master Crowns (in RD) too so that you can still promote early if you want to. Or something I often do is get a unit to level 20 at the base, then promote with a MS or MC. That way I don't need to use another level worth of BEXP to promote, or fight more enemies either. All that said I'm not against promotion requiring items. But when that is the system in place I definitely prefer having a universal promotion item like a Master Seal over class specific ones like in GBA FE. I think it would be cool to combine the 3rd tier class system from Radiant Dawn with branching promotions. I love having 3rd tiers in RD, and I think bringing that back with branched options could be a cool way to make that system even more interesting.
It's worth noting that in a lot of games, including all the SNES games, the way promotion works is that it actually changes the character's class bases. This is why stat gains can be so variable in some games: the game is changing the character's class bases from their original bases to their new class's bases. Cavalier to Paladin in Thracia isn't that big of a jump because Paladin's bases are only a little greater than Cavalier. This is also why dismounting in FE3 can provide some pretty wildly variable penalties, because what the game is doing is swapping out your initial class for a "dismounted knight" class that has the same base stats as Cavalier. Basically, the reclass system exists in those games, it's just that you don't have the level of control over it that you did in the DS games. FE7 was the first game where the promotion bonuses were chosen arbitrarily rather than based on the differences between class bases, which is why promo bonuses in that game are pretty low. (FE6 doesn't do the class-base thing, but it does make sure the stat differences match.)
I'm currently romhacking Awakening, and one of my biggest problems with it (and to a lesser extent all subsequent FE Games) is twofold: 1. How easy it is to snowball early on. 2. Loss of character identity/build diversity. When most/everyone can become tier 2 flying units early on, you know something's off.
Also my problem with 3 Houses' Wyvern Lord meta, when it's just better to have all but maybe 1-2 units be the same singular flying class, with the exceptions often just being because gremony offers x2 magic uses for units with like meteor or warp, even with ability to use other weapons, everyone can start feeling then same, even with personal skills
@@bluegem8582 Not only are personal skills too little on most classes to really offer a true distinction, they are usually better served to offer distinctions on two characters that are designed to be similar. For example, giving your Christmas Cavs personal skills meant to keep them unique regardless of which one you end up favoring. But when your Christmas Cavs can promote into anything, let alone anyone promoting into anything, the existence of easy available of promotion (and reclassing) either necessitates that the game is built around it...and some, like Awakening...aren't.
I recently played through fe1 and enjoyed the limited promotions for units. I liked the strategy of withholding a promotion for more stat gains at a cost of one less move given many of the units surpassed the bases by the time I got the promotion items. I ended up using Tomas as my primary Parthia user as I had benched Gordin early on so he was severely under levelled. He helped massively during the mid-game, not so much late game as I had enough gold from the arena to boost everyone to the stat caps.
Honestly the way FE1 promotion worked should have stayed as a fixture throughout most of the games, in addition to the other class systems. Imagine fe7 fixing your rng screwed Lyn, for example, then applying promo bonuses
I prefer item-based systems with no slowdowns. Two big similarities between 3H and Engage (which Engage sadly doesn't communicate) are the fact that promotion doesn't affect Exp gains and the fact that (be it by overall level tracking or through Second Seal resets) there's no practical level cap. As a result, in both of those games you want to promote ASAP. 3H even uses class bases, so promoting as soon as a class is available is one of the ways of permanently boosting the units' stats. In that sense, proficiency levels in Armor can serve as a direct substitute for Defense stat boosters. Having promotion items involved also adds a resource management component without necessarily introducing unfun situations. Instead of having to think whether or not to hold a unit back from promoting because they lose level-up opportunities, systems like 3H and Engage make you think about which units should get the seals that you do have. This changes your experience from the unfun one of willfully holding good units back for an uncertain gain (like you would in the 3DS games) to a gratifying one of giving your seals away as fast as possible and immediately enjoying the gains from it.
Engage really needed to tell the player better how promotions actually work. I had a very long discussion with friends when the trailers came out, about how promotions work, compared to 3H and Fates. Like, levels reset again, but stats seem to somehow reset too, but not really? But they're also not only the class bases, somehow? You can infinitely level, technically, but your internal level makes exp gain horrible if you do so? Both Fates and 3H had almost comically simple promotion systems in terms of stats and exp, so not sure why Engage made it so confusing.
Tellius and Sacred Stones we're always my favorites for promoting, but I think the fates reclassing is pretty fun in most cases. Donnel in Awakening was also always fun to grow and obliterate with
I do personally think that having class specific items is overall a good thing, as it encourages you to diversify your roster, as you don't know when and how many of a given item you'll get. Though then they need to be spread out in a way that makes sense for the overall game balance, and not be so punishing that you'll end up not being able to promote a given character because there's only one item for most of the game that works for them and there are multiple classes that use them. (Sacred Stones does suffer from this to an extent with the Ocean seal in particular as of you go the pirate route with Ross you're going to struggle with these). Sacred Stones stands out as my favourite system as well, by a pretty wide margin, and my least favourites are the ones that allows you to pretty much freely pick your classes, as that does tend to encourage a pretty homogenous roster (Three Houses stands out for me in a negative way in this regard).
100% agree that Sacred Stones had my favorite promotion system. Each class has two available promotion lines, one usually better for overall combat but the other one may have better uses, it does make you weigh your decision and which unit should get which promotion. I personally am not a fan of unlimited or unrestricted reclassing, I personally think it's best when limited, however since that's outside the scope of this vid I am alright leaving that point here
I absolutely love the way sacred stones does it. I like characters having options but reclassing into any class is silly. We should follow the sacred stones example. If not maybe even add a third option when promoting
I enjoyed the Sacred Stones, the Tellius games, and Three Houses promotion systems. 1. Sacred Stones branching promotion system gave us simple options without needing to spending hours of planning to metagame the best optimal way to skill grind. 2. Not needing to worry about getting an item to promote your units felt very freeing. I was already abusing bonus exp (as I'm sure many others did), and tying promotions to items would have been a temporary roadblock that I luckily didn't need to plan around. 3. If your going to allow full on meta-gaming and skill grinding, Three Houses gives you the best options, and ways to do so. Plus the Renown earn over multiple playthroughs allows player to reduce the amount of time relearning skill that you already spent hours learning on a previous playthrough.
I do like the idea of auto promotes, it gives your favorite units an early boost, or, it lets you not use a resource on a support unit that levels slower.
I really prefer the Awakening style. I like the breeding classes and getting gender locked class skills transferred and all that jazz. It feels very advanced as a system.
I think something that could be neat would be to have a combined system of class minimums and flat growths. Basically every class has a range for their key stats that can grow on promotion, but also if you are at or above the minimums you still get a small bonus. For example, say general has class minimums of 40hp, 16 str and 18 def (idk what game this is balanced for just go with it), additionally they have 'flat growths' for those stats of hp:4-12, str: 2-6 and def: 3-9. In short, the lower of those numbers is the absolute minimum a unit can gain when promoting into general from armor knight, however, the class minimum is the highest amount they can attain if they start lower than class min-minimum growth. For example an armor knight with 30 hp, 15 str and 8 defense (lmao) promotes to general. Since the hp is under the class minimum, it tries to grow to the minimum and does since 10 is less than the maximum growth. they then gain 2 str to get to 17, which is more than the class minimum, but the minimum str growth is +2, then the defense is less than the minimum, so it tries to grow to 18, but only hits 17 since the maximum improvement is +9. I think this system would be fun since early promotes stay very good, while also leaving later promotes to be viable, especially for already powerful units
Berwick Saga does not require items to promote. But the promotions are based on both level and weapon/shield rank, which creates an interesting dynamic for some of the characters that it may not be worth it to invest in those skills. Specificially characters requiring two weapon types might just want to stick to their primary and finish the game unpromoted.
18:05 TH doesn’t really encourage long term planning because it hides the masterclasses with professor rank until I believe C rank Very probably so that you wouldn’t just ignore half of the class lines in the games since they dont have a masterclass
Inam the weird guy that actually like the Shining Force 1 system, when one promotion you LOSE stats, and in turn massively increase growths and usually exo gain. This makes actually meaningful whatever to promote at 10 or wait, as waiting makes for an harder midgame in exchange for a larger powerspike.
Good video! Promotion is my favourite part of fire emblem, my phone is full of videos of my units promotint haha. I did just finish a run with paladin treck yesterday though lol. Early promoted him after like 5 str/spd/skill, which let me late promote lance and allen making them really mighty. And treck... hit 14 spd by endgame? He's doing his best okay? 😂
While I'm not too picky, I generally prefer when we only need to deal with the Master Seal. I also like split promotions a lot. But my biggest pet peeve is when it's impossible to get enough promotion items early game since I prefer keeping my units around the same levels whenever possible.
He literally says it works because the game is easy enough to do whatever and still win. If it was harder, then choosing the wrong promo would be actually crippling.
@@marcoasturias8520 He also says that there's an obvious right and wrong choice. If the classes were better balanced against eachother it adds variety, replayability, and strategy to each run. It's the best system even if it's not been used to full effectiveness. I watched the video. He also says towards then end it's his favorite system. I don't get what youre trying to say with your comment.
My favorite promotion system is definitely the fe8 one - though at base it needs a lot of reworking to balance out, as many paths are completely useless like warrior. I mainly have to agree that classes having different promotion items means that you have to properly strategize who you use and think about team building proper, though still leaving in secret shops in case the player leans in hard towards specific units for the heck of it. I will say though, i am partial to the echoes/gaiden promotion system, mainly due to the fact that i like having to reach an objective. Short term dopamine release, i suppose.
I noticed you're slurring a lot in this video, I'm not judging but I have some auditory issues so it makes listening very hard when wearing headphones or earbuds. It seems like it isn't always an issue in every line read. I'd maybe recommend doing multiple takes of each line and picking the best ones moving forward. It's a tiny thing that can really make a difference and help people who are interested in your content who have issues like I do. Awesome video though!
18:20, except gender lock class or unit specific class, but for those who really want a male gremory or a female dark bishop, there's mods or cheats for that
RD is my favorite, simply because I like the three tiers. Also being able to just level up is convenient. My only criticism of that system is that the class skills feel too samey. Sol is the one that heals you, but other than that they're all functionally the same because of their big damage multiplier. Basically every class skill will one shot everyone but the big bosses, but all the big bosses have nihil
The three houses system sucked because the requirements for lqter classes were hidden for ages. Finding out I needed a C in lances for my archers was painful
100% agree, I ended up sticking to the promoted classes the game nudges you towards, and didn't experiment much with tutoring, I didn't know what were the requirement, so why waste hours on a stat that might be completely useless
Strangely enough, I'm not that big on promotions in FE games. I think they are serviceable enough to stay but it's just another part of progression. My favorite iteration is probably Echoes. I like that promotion is not too broken and helps keep units on track to not fall behind on bad growth rates. I will say though that I like it when Lords promote due to the story. I find it satisfying when it's a natural conclusion to an achievement the Lord accomplished.
I think i prefer FE8’s way of doing things; the limited branching paths with no reclassing keys each character still feel unique. The “all mage run” is a funny meme or whatever, but if every units can be essentially the same, they’re not really “characters.” In that way, Triangle Strategy has probably been my favorite recent Fire Emblem game
I think class-based promotion items could have their place alongside Master Seals if they gave better bonuses as a trade-off for being more limited in what class they can be used on.
Like to me with Engage is what I was thinking the ones with a unique class should have a class based promotion item. Examples are Alear, Alfred, Celine, Alcryst, Diamant, Ivy, Hortensia, Timerra, and Fogado
Honestly as much of a Fates shill as I am I really like the way promotion gains are handled in SOV and 3H and aside from just having branching promotions like FE8/Awakening/Fates I would like to see that be a standard just so your armor knight doesn't get fucked because they have no defense
i would like to ask the veteran's of this series who know it better do you guys think there is a chance they remaster shadows of vallentia or awekening or fates or all three i started with three houses and i whould love to play them if posible in the future
The fanbase thinks its more likely to get a remake of FE4, according to some rumors that was in the works alongside Engage. I think a remaster of the Tellius games is possible, considering how many GameCube games are getting remastered these days. And personally, I wouldn't be shocked by an Awakening remake - its the game that saved the franchise, after all. But sont hold your breath for any of these. Just find a 3DS emulator.
So far they have been doing remake in chronological order and focusing on the ones that were only released in japan Shadows of Valentia is in itself a remake of fire emblem gaiden, the second game in the series, And the first and third game in the series were remade on the ds, Leaks and rumors even point toward the next game being a remake of fe4 in comparison I think awakening is the 13th game I would honestly recommend just using an emulator such as Citra or modding an old 3ds, one emulator if you’re PC is strong enough you can even play these games in HD Otherwise the only officially accessible games are TH, Engage and fe7 Blazing Sword on the Nintendo switch online but due to how fe7 function if you don’t import a save (which you can do on emulator but not on Nintendo switch online) you will be forced into the easiest difficulty
one thing not mentioned about three houses class system is its actually slightly gender locked men can actually have a couple more classes then women which wed argue is just stupid and bad but whatever
Fates has a really good class system in general in the fact that you need to manage levels and promotion items if you are trying to maximize or go for specific skills in a run, which might not be something everyone enjoys doing but it provides an interesting part of resource management not found in other fe games.
1) What did you like the most about it? ~2) are you willing to use emulators?~ scratch that, I forgot the 3ds is off limits outside of after market. It's NSO GBA or bust. 3) are you willing to patch roms?
There's a couple places I'd say you could go to There's immediately up or down one game, so Shadows Of Valentia or Engage. You can see how the systems you're familiar used to be or how they changed, all 3 features things like a time warp for player comfort. Engage is on Switch, but you'll likely need an emulator to play Echoes Then there's Awakening. Awakening is the blueprint for what modern Fire Emblem is, you could divide the series into pre-Awakening and post-Awakening, it serves as a great entry point, should you be willing to emulate. Similarly, Blazing Blade was the Western debut of Fire Emblem and a lot of people began the franchise with that back in the day. If you have the Nintendo Switch Online Expansion, Blazing Blade can be played on your Switch. So 1. Fire Emblem Engage (FE17) 2. Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows Of Valentia (FE15) 3. Fire Emblem Awakening (FE13) 4. Fire Emblem: Blazing Blade (FE7) Choice is yours
I don't think specific promotion items are good unless it was for each class instead of each "type" of class. The fact that in fe6 the knight crest is shared between cav and armors meanwhile hero crest has 4 classes fighting over them is not fair. It punishes players who want to try units they like over the optimal best units. Rutger is really good in fe6 but if you like dieck, wade/lot, Fir or Geese, you now have to ask yourself, do you want to promote your OP speedy swords guy or this slow hardhitting axe tank since they promote with the same item. not to mention that the armor knights gets left even further behind because you get 4 unpromoted cavs in fe4. Healers and mages have to fight over the same item even if their role in the early game is very different.
To me, there's only two Promo systems. Class Bases and Class Minimums. I don't like Class Minimums (FE 1, 2 SoV, 16). To me, stats are what makes units unique, and having a system that equalizes their stats pretty much takes away their personality. Pretty much every level they gained up to promo was worthless unless they go beyond the minimum, and at that point, promotion is useless outside of resetting level. It saps away the excitement of promoting. There's other ways to make sure units are always capable of contributing.
Sadly you didn't mentioned how in one game promotions generally better than in others. Like in FE 4 most of promotion give massive stats boost, while in Thracia they usually very poor(prince promotion is painful). Also Binding blade have the biggest stats boost on promotion in all GBA games, which I absolutely love, because it can make mediocre unit into something fantastic. When promotion bonuses are low you mostly consider them as a way to continue leveling up, than an serious upgrade. Btw, I HATE reclassing
Wish the rookie units got auto promoted in later games. Donnel for example would have been cool to turn to mercenary at 10 to not need a second seal on him.
Yeah the autopromotion for the trainees in fe8 was pretty nice. It wouldn't have been as fun if you had to spend a promo item on that.
@@actuallizard yeah and also feel earned when you do get him up. With enough planning donnel can keep up with early game and even main his map
Same with wishing later games had these types to raise but better
I mean they sort of remedied this with Mozu and Jean where they're just in tier 1 classes. Mozu is in an exclusive (sort of) tier 1 class that promotes and Jean is just a martial monk
@@lagspike7763 mozu yes but not jean. He misses out on the entire prologue story and by then you can get a stronger healer especially if you know how to spam guard like azura dancing in early game giving you a high level unit for norh as your dancer
@@ivanbluecool I mean trainee units have always been pretty bad; Jean being outclassed isn’t really something to be surprised about. I thought you were talking about how Donnel specifically has a really weird promotion situation in that he … doesn’t. Whereas Jean can still promote like anyone else
First of all , as someone who did an Ironman of FE6 and was left with Trek as my only cavalry to use, he rose to the challenge and did well ill have you know! He capped his strength and defense so I was proud of him. He's also my favorite little guy amongst the cavalry don't ask me why he just is.
You are truly his strongest soldier 🫡
@@actuallizard And probably his only one, I'm still waiting for him to get into fire emblem heroes of all things ☠️
I love Trek
I believe another thing about promotion in Engage is that your exp gain is not slowed down at all by promoting? So there's absolutely no incentive to delay promotion for an eligible unit if you have a seal for them.
This is true. Exp is based on the unit’s internal level (i.e. the flat level that is untouched by promotions).
For example, a level 3 sword master promoted at level 10 is the same internal level as a level 12 sword fighter and thus gets the same exp.
I think it makes sense since it feels more rewarding to get a promotion seal if you can use it right away instead of tossing it in the inventory for another 5-8 chapters.
@@Viewtifulyoshi Agreed. Plus with the ability to second seal loop it feels nice to get really powerful units sooner.
I’d prefer if the level system was like Genealogy or 3H where your level doesn’t reset upon promotion, that way it would be clear to the player that promotion doesn’t affect your experience gain.
In the DS games, Pegasus Knights normally promote with Master Seals like everyone else, and become Dracoknights. But they uniquely had an alternate promotion into Falcon Knights by giving them an Elysian Whip, which in FE11 was exclusive to the online shop. I think having rare, special promotion items to promote into special classes, in addition to generic Master Seals that change all classes into their normal promoted forms, would be a cool thing to include in future games. These could be rewards for certain difficult sidequests, with only a strongly limited amount of unique promo items in the game, enabling players to give their blorbo something special and unique.
Fates DLC promotion items
Dark mage being a "reward" for defeating the Death knight early in three houses will never not be funny.
Something to note about RD is that in the Japanese version, to get to tier 3 classes you *need* to use a Master Crown. This is why the JP version has a lot more Master Crown hidden treasures throughout the game. It's also why Mist needs to promote with a Holy Crown to get Valkyrie in all versions.
Does he have more hidden treasures?! 😞 I thought it deserved more respect as it would encourage you more the use of laguz and now it turns out it's worse because more hidden items.
Something I only found out a year or so ago is that the Master Crown hidden treasures had glowing tiles in the Japanese version. The localization not only removed them, it also removed the glow, which creates a minor plot hole as base conversations mention the glow a few times. (It's implied Yune is leaving the treasures to help the army)
Tellius and Level 21 wins for me. I really appreciated that units can bypass the need to use an item if the Seals are unavailable for whatever reason. I do wish more had been done with the additional weapon options, but at least Engage came through on that front.
Fates was, for me (as I haven't played Sacred Stones yet so I can't give an opinion on it in comparison), the peak style of promotion and reclassing for the games I've played, specifically for the reclass structure. Since units had a set promotion path of options, you could generally plan your skills and builds around the classes available to them, but the system really shines for me when you include the other two seal types and account for them in your builds. This allowed you to keep a "core" for each character but could still have some fun but limited (as in number of classes, not scope) flexibility.
The ability to reclass someone into their spouse's or best friend's class added an extremely fun layer of wacky potential skills, while still keeping the class numbers relatively controlled so characters would still have their own unique qualities and stand out from others of their class. It was a really smart move, in my opinion.
(It also did really cool things behind the scenes for character building as well, especially when you it would give you alternative classes instead because a character already had access to the main class a seal partner had, or when it would show some really cool detail of the character you might not normally see. For example, spoilers for Fates: Reclassing Takumi into Swordmaster gives him his father's armor and is a really neat touch.)
If there is one thing I have learned watching this channel, it's that FE1 is actually a very well designed and balanced game conceptually.
There's other balance quirks like that. For example, Defense is quiet a powerful Stat, since barely any enemy levels up during the game, having 10+ defense is enough to wall most of the game. This is why armor knights don't promote.
I'm so sad the Switch port was limited time because it was really fun to play and I wish others could get it normally
Yea, in practice is a broken game
This guy says he likes master seals but his fe8 balance patch doesn't change the promo items to master seals
One of the few people that actually like the Sacred Stone promotions over the "promote into whatever." I thought I was the only one!
Tellius and Fates are probably my two favorite systems in the series. I love the option of just going through to level "21" and saving on the promo item. Part of what I love about Fates' system is the offspring seal. After chapter 18, all the kids get a seal that will let them promote and gain levels depending on how far into the game you are.
One idea that I would love to see is a game with level "21" promo, class specific promo items (rare), and generic promo items (common). The main difference is the promo gains each method would give, for example: level "21" gives little to none, the class specific items give the best (and by a decent margin), and the generic items give something in the middle.
Jugdral was mine. No "muh efficiency", you get 30 levels and the promotion is simply a class change with stat and weapon skill gains that does not reset level. No promotion items either.
What if there was a game that had both general promotion items and specific promotion items?
You could use the general promotion items to just get into the advanced classes, but specific promotion items could have base requirements that can open up a second, more unique/specialized advanced class (a la Sacred Stones). And/or maybe you can use it to open up a special skill for the advanced class.
Aside from Jagens becoming more accepted, the other huge advancement I'm proud of the FE Community for leaving behind more in the last 5-10 years is the mentality that you have to promote as late as possible to "maximize stat gains" when most FEs will never allow you to 20/20 units
me arena abusing just to spite the more efficient option.
@@Alb410 real
Then there's me abusing that poor staff using enemy to maximize exp gains because in some FEs, staffs heal the wielder... Yay war crimes!
Me Boss abusing chapter 12 Eliwood HardMode to get Rebecca as many levels as necessary:
Meanwhile Tower of Valni mfs:
While TearRing Saga has a lot of issues, one thing I love about it is how its promotion gains finally made a trainee unit amazing... to the point of succeeding TOO well. Narron is a Cav who starts a little weak, and unlike many he's a "high-payoff" unit not because of growths, but because Gold Knight gives him absolutely STUPID promo gains (+6 Strength and +7 Speed, among others). FE4 kinda did this with Lachesis and Leif as well, Master Knight being such a good class it made training them worth it. It's a rare time I've seen trainee units unanimously liked, and I feel anyone who wants to design a good trainee should take notes from that. (Narron's main issue was you get a Knight Crest one chapter after he joins and it's not hard to get him to Lv 10 before/during that chapter)
My favorite is, I think, Radiant Dawn. I really like being able to just level up into promotion, it feels like I worked for it, plus the master crown stuff for units that really need it removes some of the associated grind. Also really like having 3 tiers, I wish it was slightly better implemented in places, especially in enemies, but still the concept appeals to me.
I fully agree, it was very cool in some ways, frustrating in others
Actually fe6 does have class base stats and promotion is based on class basses, the game simply swaps out the class bases and displays the difference as the promo bonuses, if two classes promoted into the same class or branch promo existed this would be noticeable so in theory a negative promo gain would be entirely possible infact if a class is hacked to have less base stats than it's unpromoted varient than negative promo gains show and are fully functional.
Then, I wonder. Why SS has fixed promo bonuses if negative gains don't break the game?
@@marcoasturias8520 It was changed in fe 7 for some reason [no playable classes promote into the same class like fe6] I could see an argument in sacred stones for wanting promo bonuses to be uniform and always giving a positive bonus as negative bonuses feel bad, and/or confusing to get, for casual and younger players [which the gba games were aimed at], however cavalier to great knight still loses a point of movement lol.
What are the stat boosts when promoting from Lizard to Lizard knight?
The Lizard Knight gains some standard bonuses, most notably to Str/Def/Spd as he is now more determined instead of as derpy. Most significant imo is his much needed boost to Res (akin to Paladins) as that now helps it against ice magic attacks a bit, and he gains a massive boost of up to +30 Charisma making him a go to for gambits. Gaining a higher level of intelligence and influence over the masses as indicated by his crown. He also of course gains access to swords, on top of his fist weapons. But fists should still be his go to as his switch controller personal weapon will remain his most damaging weapon till he ultimately unlocks the switch 2.
Shining Force handles promotion differently: it increases your growth rates massively, but it also lowers your stats by 15%, since your characters aren't used to their new powers yet. On top of that, the remakes make promotion reset your internal level, resulting in spellcasters not getting their top-tier spells if they promote until after an insane amount of leveling (and they'll possibly never see them). Promotion done at a bad time makes most characters worse, but is largely worth it overall.
Is this for SF1 and/or 2? I've been playing 3 as my first Shining game(s) and it seems like there is absolutely no downside to instant promotion and stats never decrease
@@Pwrplus5 yes
something about promotion in genealogy and thacia is that the promotion bonus is just the gap between the bases of your class and the class you would promote, also in FE4 all caps are just class bases +15 (those 15 are the personal stats of your unit without the class bases), example the bard class have base speed of 10 and cap of 25 so when promotes to sage they gain +5 making the base 15 speed and the cap is 30 speed
That would probably be best for a video on stat caps rather than this video.
I believe the only game with non-minimum promo bonuses that *doesn't* use the gap between classes as promotion gains is SS, where the promotion bonuses are set in the class screen.
Maybe GBA software couldn't handle the logic for having branching promos when the promos could give negative Stat gains. Negative Stat gains are quiet common in 3DS FE, much after GBA, and Telius didn't have branching promos.
Some combination of Tellius and Sacred stones. Personally i prefer level 21 promotes over items for the exact reasons you like master seals over specific items in that i can simply use who i want to use without being restricted by a lack of item. I like Sacred stones having set classes for units which gives them a much stronger identity (unlike recent games...) but having the split option for promotion adds some fun personal flair into the mix. I also like how Sacred Stones handled trainee classes more than recent games
Hi Lizard!
One of my favorite things about keeping up with this channel (aside from the great content and analysis, of course) is seeing how the Patreon list has grown and grown!
I love your videos, they are getting me hyped to play through all the games.
Two things:
1. You forgot the whole Draco knight falcon knight situation in DSFE
2. You’d never want to stay in an unpromoted class to get an unpromoted skill because you alreary get both unpromoted class skills by lvl 10 (unless you’re referring to getting unpromoted class skills from a class you seal into before promotion)
Underdog enters the chat and makes your point for you
I believe in Awakening, reclassing to a promoted class won't allow that character to learn the skills of the level 1 and level 10 skills of the unpromoted class. So if Robin were to promote to Grandmaster and then reclass to Hero, he wouldn't learn Patience and Armsthrift.
In Fates, you get the unpromoted abilities leveling in the promoted class. But I believe in Awakening, the unit had to be in the unpromoted class for their abilities. I haven't played Awakening, tho.
@@marcoasturias8520you are right learning unpromoted class skill is a improvement of fates
@@TheTrains13
Good thing Underdog sucks.
I think a cool method of promotion that hasn't been tried yet would be to raise the unit up to the class bases, THEN give a preset bonus set of stats. That way, even units above the class bases can promote without the player feeling bad, as they'll still be gaining stats. But we also get the very interesting dynamic of being incentivized to promote weaker units.
Three Houses did this already
@@TommySkywalker11I guess they mean for a game where level is reset and caps at 20. In 3h it doesn't really matter to promote early or late, so there's no chance to "feel bad".
@@TommySkywalker11 Really? I could have sworn that units were only brought up to class bases when promoting. I guess I'm remembering it wrong, then.
@@LoudWaffle they get brought to bases then every class has stat mods added on, like assassin's +5 speed
@@TommySkywalker11 Ohh is the Assassin's +5 speed in your example only in effect while the unit is in that class?
when designing a promotion system the most important thing to remember is that when given the option. Players will optimize the fun out of a game.
Fun video man! Thoroughly enjoyed this
I agree with your take on Three Houses. Having access to every class made since because the monastery system. This was a good place of gameplay and story integration. What did not make sense was how every unit can get into every other class in the DS system. This did not help the integration of gameplay and story.
I don't mind too much the promotion system but I appreciate keeping track of the level you promoted someone.
After watching, the video made me realise 3 Houses works the exactly opposite of one thing I liked upon promotion:
Getting weapon ranks increased. 3 Houses forces you to get the weapon rank in order to promote.
Speaking of choosing weapons in fe9, I really wish 3 houses had done something similar. Or even let you change around class skills the same way you change regular skills. Being able to use whatever weapons is kinda negated when you’re heavily incentivized to use the class’ -faire weapon. For me at least it usually boils down to having the class’ weapon type & a bow because bows are so good in that game.
The thumbnail for this video is one of the best I've ever seen
Personally I loved the way Three houses promotions worked the most. I love the idea of just being able to make your characters whatever you want. This was also used in shadows of Valentia echoes and I love that game as well
In the DS Fire Emblem titles, Pegasus Knights can promote to Falcon Knights via Elysian Whip. But the Falcon Knight class is mutually exclusive with the Draco Knight class so promoting to Falcon Knight will lock you out of Draco Knight and vice versa. In Shadow Dragon the Elysian whip was only given to the player through the online shop but the DS online servers have been shut down, so players will have to resort to hacking to obtain the item. Thankfully in New Mystery there are three Elysian Whips that can be obtained in addition to the online shop. There is one in chapter 11, one in chapter 16 and a purchasable one in a secret shop in chapter 18, though you'll more than likely have to delay the promotion of your Pegasus Knights since they come a bit late.
Sacred Stones is my favorite Fire Emblem game, and its promotion system is part of it. Magvell chads stay winning!
Woo! Also, just realized how many easy it is to get a team of calvary & flyers only in that one, other than thief utility
Sacred Stones is def my favorite system. Though class balancing is a huge issue in that game, it isn't an inherent flaw of the system as much as it's just poor game balance, could probably be fixed quite easily.
In an ideal world, I'd love a game with three tiers of classes, and branching promotions for each, but thats unlikely to ever happen
Promotion is one of my fav things ever in fe, it adds so much to value and power to ur fav units : )
You missed 2 key parts of engage: the weapon skill requirement and the fact that many of those are locked for a huge part of the game
I like sacred stones’ promotion system the best, a little bit of choice but not so much choice that any unit can become anything. I really don’t like reclassing, I feel like it would just make all the units feel the same, but something I could get behind is a couple more promotion options
I think my favorite is Engage, where there is no downside to promoting ASAP but it is a competitive resource.
But I like how promotion, along with many other mechanics, keeps changing and experimenting because it keeps the games fresh. That's one of the series' biggest strengths.
Ew
I always hate any leveling up system where I need to time, or put off, my promotions to optimize character builds. especially when it's to avoid level caps that you run into faster when you promote too eagerly.
I like the itemless promotion in the Tellius games the best. Being able to just promote by leveling up gives the player a lot more freedom to promote whoever they want. It's nice that they include Master Seals and also Master Crowns (in RD) too so that you can still promote early if you want to. Or something I often do is get a unit to level 20 at the base, then promote with a MS or MC. That way I don't need to use another level worth of BEXP to promote, or fight more enemies either.
All that said I'm not against promotion requiring items. But when that is the system in place I definitely prefer having a universal promotion item like a Master Seal over class specific ones like in GBA FE. I think it would be cool to combine the 3rd tier class system from Radiant Dawn with branching promotions. I love having 3rd tiers in RD, and I think bringing that back with branched options could be a cool way to make that system even more interesting.
It's worth noting that in a lot of games, including all the SNES games, the way promotion works is that it actually changes the character's class bases. This is why stat gains can be so variable in some games: the game is changing the character's class bases from their original bases to their new class's bases. Cavalier to Paladin in Thracia isn't that big of a jump because Paladin's bases are only a little greater than Cavalier. This is also why dismounting in FE3 can provide some pretty wildly variable penalties, because what the game is doing is swapping out your initial class for a "dismounted knight" class that has the same base stats as Cavalier.
Basically, the reclass system exists in those games, it's just that you don't have the level of control over it that you did in the DS games.
FE7 was the first game where the promotion bonuses were chosen arbitrarily rather than based on the differences between class bases, which is why promo bonuses in that game are pretty low. (FE6 doesn't do the class-base thing, but it does make sure the stat differences match.)
I'm currently romhacking Awakening, and one of my biggest problems with it (and to a lesser extent all subsequent FE Games) is twofold:
1. How easy it is to snowball early on.
2. Loss of character identity/build diversity.
When most/everyone can become tier 2 flying units early on, you know something's off.
Also my problem with 3 Houses' Wyvern Lord meta, when it's just better to have all but maybe 1-2 units be the same singular flying class, with the exceptions often just being because gremony offers x2 magic uses for units with like meteor or warp, even with ability to use other weapons, everyone can start feeling then same, even with personal skills
@@bluegem8582
Not only are personal skills too little on most classes to really offer a true distinction, they are usually better served to offer distinctions on two characters that are designed to be similar.
For example, giving your Christmas Cavs personal skills meant to keep them unique regardless of which one you end up favoring.
But when your Christmas Cavs can promote into anything, let alone anyone promoting into anything, the existence of easy available of promotion (and reclassing) either necessitates that the game is built around it...and some, like Awakening...aren't.
Everyone became Mages for me. Or Dark Flier.
The only real difference is: Gale Force & Counter.
The best part though, Lucina, like her father, works better by benching Falchion as a Vulnerary and picking up a Brave Bow.
@@bluegem8582dark flier lysithea>gremory lysithea
I recently played through fe1 and enjoyed the limited promotions for units. I liked the strategy of withholding a promotion for more stat gains at a cost of one less move given many of the units surpassed the bases by the time I got the promotion items. I ended up using Tomas as my primary Parthia user as I had benched Gordin early on so he was severely under levelled. He helped massively during the mid-game, not so much late game as I had enough gold from the arena to boost everyone to the stat caps.
Honestly the way FE1 promotion worked should have stayed as a fixture throughout most of the games, in addition to the other class systems.
Imagine fe7 fixing your rng screwed Lyn, for example, then applying promo bonuses
I liked the Tellius, Awakening and Three houses styles of promotion.
GBA promotion also fits these titles tbh.
I really like that you have the confidence to do videos even tho you have speech impediment. Good on you. And a great video
I prefer item-based systems with no slowdowns. Two big similarities between 3H and Engage (which Engage sadly doesn't communicate) are the fact that promotion doesn't affect Exp gains and the fact that (be it by overall level tracking or through Second Seal resets) there's no practical level cap. As a result, in both of those games you want to promote ASAP. 3H even uses class bases, so promoting as soon as a class is available is one of the ways of permanently boosting the units' stats. In that sense, proficiency levels in Armor can serve as a direct substitute for Defense stat boosters.
Having promotion items involved also adds a resource management component without necessarily introducing unfun situations. Instead of having to think whether or not to hold a unit back from promoting because they lose level-up opportunities, systems like 3H and Engage make you think about which units should get the seals that you do have. This changes your experience from the unfun one of willfully holding good units back for an uncertain gain (like you would in the 3DS games) to a gratifying one of giving your seals away as fast as possible and immediately enjoying the gains from it.
Engage really needed to tell the player better how promotions actually work. I had a very long discussion with friends when the trailers came out, about how promotions work, compared to 3H and Fates. Like, levels reset again, but stats seem to somehow reset too, but not really? But they're also not only the class bases, somehow? You can infinitely level, technically, but your internal level makes exp gain horrible if you do so?
Both Fates and 3H had almost comically simple promotion systems in terms of stats and exp, so not sure why Engage made it so confusing.
Tellius and Sacred Stones we're always my favorites for promoting, but I think the fates reclassing is pretty fun in most cases. Donnel in Awakening was also always fun to grow and obliterate with
I do personally think that having class specific items is overall a good thing, as it encourages you to diversify your roster, as you don't know when and how many of a given item you'll get. Though then they need to be spread out in a way that makes sense for the overall game balance, and not be so punishing that you'll end up not being able to promote a given character because there's only one item for most of the game that works for them and there are multiple classes that use them. (Sacred Stones does suffer from this to an extent with the Ocean seal in particular as of you go the pirate route with Ross you're going to struggle with these).
Sacred Stones stands out as my favourite system as well, by a pretty wide margin, and my least favourites are the ones that allows you to pretty much freely pick your classes, as that does tend to encourage a pretty homogenous roster (Three Houses stands out for me in a negative way in this regard).
100% agree that Sacred Stones had my favorite promotion system. Each class has two available promotion lines, one usually better for overall combat but the other one may have better uses, it does make you weigh your decision and which unit should get which promotion. I personally am not a fan of unlimited or unrestricted reclassing, I personally think it's best when limited, however since that's outside the scope of this vid I am alright leaving that point here
I absolutely love the way sacred stones does it. I like characters having options but reclassing into any class is silly. We should follow the sacred stones example. If not maybe even add a third option when promoting
imo fates was the best of it, you can almost turn into everything but you need investment for it
I enjoyed the Sacred Stones, the Tellius games, and Three Houses promotion systems.
1. Sacred Stones branching promotion system gave us simple options without needing to spending hours of planning to metagame the best optimal way to skill grind.
2. Not needing to worry about getting an item to promote your units felt very freeing. I was already abusing bonus exp (as I'm sure many others did), and tying promotions to items would have been a temporary roadblock that I luckily didn't need to plan around.
3. If your going to allow full on meta-gaming and skill grinding, Three Houses gives you the best options, and ways to do so. Plus the Renown earn over multiple playthroughs allows player to reduce the amount of time relearning skill that you already spent hours learning on a previous playthrough.
I do like the idea of auto promotes, it gives your favorite units an early boost, or, it lets you not use a resource on a support unit that levels slower.
I really prefer the Awakening style. I like the breeding classes and getting gender locked class skills transferred and all that jazz. It feels very advanced as a system.
I think something that could be neat would be to have a combined system of class minimums and flat growths.
Basically every class has a range for their key stats that can grow on promotion, but also if you are at or above the minimums you still get a small bonus.
For example, say general has class minimums of 40hp, 16 str and 18 def (idk what game this is balanced for just go with it), additionally they have 'flat growths' for those stats of hp:4-12, str: 2-6 and def: 3-9. In short, the lower of those numbers is the absolute minimum a unit can gain when promoting into general from armor knight, however, the class minimum is the highest amount they can attain if they start lower than class min-minimum growth.
For example an armor knight with 30 hp, 15 str and 8 defense (lmao) promotes to general. Since the hp is under the class minimum, it tries to grow to the minimum and does since 10 is less than the maximum growth. they then gain 2 str to get to 17, which is more than the class minimum, but the minimum str growth is +2, then the defense is less than the minimum, so it tries to grow to 18, but only hits 17 since the maximum improvement is +9.
I think this system would be fun since early promotes stay very good, while also leaving later promotes to be viable, especially for already powerful units
I wish we had Overclass like in Echoes. I know not every game can make it work, but they look so cool.
Cringe kid
my first fe was SS so I'm biased but I think it has the best mix of elements and I've never really been a fan of infinite reclassing.
Berwick Saga does not require items to promote. But the promotions are based on both level and weapon/shield rank, which creates an interesting dynamic for some of the characters that it may not be worth it to invest in those skills. Specificially characters requiring two weapon types might just want to stick to their primary and finish the game unpromoted.
adel enters the chat with a growth as low as it gets on his main weapon
18:05 TH doesn’t really encourage long term planning because it hides the masterclasses with professor rank until I believe C rank
Very probably so that you wouldn’t just ignore half of the class lines in the games since they dont have a masterclass
Most units will stick to advanced anyways. Master classes are weird, only peg and wyvern are natural progressions, the others mix dumb stuff
Inam the weird guy that actually like the Shining Force 1 system, when one promotion you LOSE stats, and in turn massively increase growths and usually exo gain. This makes actually meaningful whatever to promote at 10 or wait, as waiting makes for an harder midgame in exchange for a larger powerspike.
"My favorite archer that no one ever uses" *Hears my name* "Huh?"
Lol why the FE8 footage for all the GBA talk? It was neat seeing the individual games.
Good video! Promotion is my favourite part of fire emblem, my phone is full of videos of my units promotint haha. I did just finish a run with paladin treck yesterday though lol. Early promoted him after like 5 str/spd/skill, which let me late promote lance and allen making them really mighty. And treck... hit 14 spd by endgame? He's doing his best okay? 😂
I like fire emblem but i won’t lie: THE THUMBNAIL MADE ME CLICK THIS VIDEO ITS JUST PERFECT!!!
While I'm not too picky, I generally prefer when we only need to deal with the Master Seal. I also like split promotions a lot. But my biggest pet peeve is when it's impossible to get enough promotion items early game since I prefer keeping my units around the same levels whenever possible.
I agree completely. Sacred stones has the best system and I really hope someday we get another game like it.
He literally says it works because the game is easy enough to do whatever and still win.
If it was harder, then choosing the wrong promo would be actually crippling.
@@marcoasturias8520 He also says that there's an obvious right and wrong choice. If the classes were better balanced against eachother it adds variety, replayability, and strategy to each run. It's the best system even if it's not been used to full effectiveness.
I watched the video. He also says towards then end it's his favorite system. I don't get what youre trying to say with your comment.
Having to buy promo items in FE1 to promote all the Pegasus Knights won't deter me
Not like FE1 is stingy with money
My favorite promotion system is definitely the fe8 one - though at base it needs a lot of reworking to balance out, as many paths are completely useless like warrior. I mainly have to agree that classes having different promotion items means that you have to properly strategize who you use and think about team building proper, though still leaving in secret shops in case the player leans in hard towards specific units for the heck of it. I will say though, i am partial to the echoes/gaiden promotion system, mainly due to the fact that i like having to reach an objective. Short term dopamine release, i suppose.
My favorite system is Tellius.
I'm not the biggest fan of requiring an item to promote
I noticed you're slurring a lot in this video, I'm not judging but I have some auditory issues so it makes listening very hard when wearing headphones or earbuds. It seems like it isn't always an issue in every line read. I'd maybe recommend doing multiple takes of each line and picking the best ones moving forward. It's a tiny thing that can really make a difference and help people who are interested in your content who have issues like I do. Awesome video though!
18:20, except gender lock class or unit specific class, but for those who really want a male gremory or a female dark bishop, there's mods or cheats for that
Good grief, the only iota of uniqueness these units have
RD is my favorite, simply because I like the three tiers. Also being able to just level up is convenient. My only criticism of that system is that the class skills feel too samey. Sol is the one that heals you, but other than that they're all functionally the same because of their big damage multiplier. Basically every class skill will one shot everyone but the big bosses, but all the big bosses have nihil
The three houses system sucked because the requirements for lqter classes were hidden for ages. Finding out I needed a C in lances for my archers was painful
100% agree, I ended up sticking to the promoted classes the game nudges you towards, and didn't experiment much with tutoring, I didn't know what were the requirement, so why waste hours on a stat that might be completely useless
Strangely enough, I'm not that big on promotions in FE games. I think they are serviceable enough to stay but it's just another part of progression.
My favorite iteration is probably Echoes. I like that promotion is not too broken and helps keep units on track to not fall behind on bad growth rates.
I will say though that I like it when Lords promote due to the story. I find it satisfying when it's a natural conclusion to an achievement the Lord accomplished.
Aren't the Tellius Games' ability to promote without items exclusive to the western versions of the games?
one of the coolest mechanics in gaming
In the games with low base stat caps of 20 no matter what class you promote to. Early promotion is optimal from fe 1 and 3 along with fe5.
I think i prefer FE8’s way of doing things; the limited branching paths with no reclassing keys each character still feel unique. The “all mage run” is a funny meme or whatever, but if every units can be essentially the same, they’re not really “characters.”
In that way, Triangle Strategy has probably been my favorite recent Fire Emblem game
I think class-based promotion items could have their place alongside Master Seals if they gave better bonuses as a trade-off for being more limited in what class they can be used on.
Like to me with Engage is what I was thinking the ones with a unique class should have a class based promotion item.
Examples are
Alear, Alfred, Celine, Alcryst, Diamant, Ivy, Hortensia, Timerra, and Fogado
Me being that one guy who almost immediately got rid of Chloe and gave alfred my second seal, the first to clanne
Dood your videos rock!
Weirdly, no mention of Awakening
My favorite is three houses because i get to make Ashe become the tacitcian he has always looked like
Honestly as much of a Fates shill as I am I really like the way promotion gains are handled in SOV and 3H and aside from just having branching promotions like FE8/Awakening/Fates I would like to see that be a standard just so your armor knight doesn't get fucked because they have no defense
10/10 thumbnail
You finally found an excuse to talk about tomas
Check yourself before you Trek yourself, sir. Sleepy boi was bash bros with gonzo in my army fending off waves of promoted reinforcements lategame.
i would like to ask the veteran's of this series who know it better do you guys think there is a chance they remaster shadows of vallentia or awekening or fates or all three i started with three houses and i whould love to play them if posible in the future
The fanbase thinks its more likely to get a remake of FE4, according to some rumors that was in the works alongside Engage.
I think a remaster of the Tellius games is possible, considering how many GameCube games are getting remastered these days.
And personally, I wouldn't be shocked by an Awakening remake - its the game that saved the franchise, after all.
But sont hold your breath for any of these. Just find a 3DS emulator.
So far they have been doing remake in chronological order and focusing on the ones that were only released in japan
Shadows of Valentia is in itself a remake of fire emblem gaiden, the second game in the series, And the first and third game in the series were remade on the ds, Leaks and rumors even point toward the next game being a remake of fe4 in comparison I think awakening is the 13th game
I would honestly recommend just using an emulator such as Citra or modding an old 3ds, one emulator if you’re PC is strong enough you can even play these games in HD
Otherwise the only officially accessible games are TH, Engage and fe7 Blazing Sword on the Nintendo switch online but due to how fe7 function if you don’t import a save (which you can do on emulator but not on Nintendo switch online) you will be forced into the easiest difficulty
Lizard Knight Noi Crezant, at your service!
Fe6 doesn’t have static promo gains.
one thing not mentioned about three houses class system is its actually slightly gender locked men can actually have a couple more classes then women which wed argue is just stupid and bad but whatever
Fates has a really good class system in general in the fact that you need to manage levels and promotion items if you are trying to maximize or go for specific skills in a run, which might not be something everyone enjoys doing but it provides an interesting part of resource management not found in other fe games.
No Lizard Wizard promotion?
I have only played 3 houses and I kinda want to get to another game I wonder if I should go backward or forward?
1) What did you like the most about it?
~2) are you willing to use emulators?~ scratch that, I forgot the 3ds is off limits outside of after market. It's NSO GBA or bust.
3) are you willing to patch roms?
There's a couple places I'd say you could go to
There's immediately up or down one game, so Shadows Of Valentia or Engage. You can see how the systems you're familiar used to be or how they changed, all 3 features things like a time warp for player comfort. Engage is on Switch, but you'll likely need an emulator to play Echoes
Then there's Awakening. Awakening is the blueprint for what modern Fire Emblem is, you could divide the series into pre-Awakening and post-Awakening, it serves as a great entry point, should you be willing to emulate. Similarly, Blazing Blade was the Western debut of Fire Emblem and a lot of people began the franchise with that back in the day. If you have the Nintendo Switch Online Expansion, Blazing Blade can be played on your Switch.
So
1. Fire Emblem Engage (FE17)
2. Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows Of Valentia (FE15)
3. Fire Emblem Awakening (FE13)
4. Fire Emblem: Blazing Blade (FE7)
Choice is yours
I prefer 3 houses promotion to engage i dislike being punished for liking more than 2 units its kinda annoying
I don't think specific promotion items are good unless it was for each class instead of each "type" of class.
The fact that in fe6 the knight crest is shared between cav and armors meanwhile hero crest has 4 classes fighting over them is not fair. It punishes players who want to try units they like over the optimal best units.
Rutger is really good in fe6 but if you like dieck, wade/lot, Fir or Geese, you now have to ask yourself, do you want to promote your OP speedy swords guy or this slow hardhitting axe tank since they promote with the same item.
not to mention that the armor knights gets left even further behind because you get 4 unpromoted cavs in fe4.
Healers and mages have to fight over the same item even if their role in the early game is very different.
To me, there's only two Promo systems. Class Bases and Class Minimums.
I don't like Class Minimums (FE 1, 2 SoV, 16). To me, stats are what makes units unique, and having a system that equalizes their stats pretty much takes away their personality.
Pretty much every level they gained up to promo was worthless unless they go beyond the minimum, and at that point, promotion is useless outside of resetting level. It saps away the excitement of promoting.
There's other ways to make sure units are always capable of contributing.
I think I'll givemyself...
*Waves finger*
A PRRROMOTION.
A-a-are you a r-r-real lizard? 🥺🥺🥺
Sadly you didn't mentioned how in one game promotions generally better than in others. Like in FE 4 most of promotion give massive stats boost, while in Thracia they usually very poor(prince promotion is painful). Also Binding blade have the biggest stats boost on promotion in all GBA games, which I absolutely love, because it can make mediocre unit into something fantastic. When promotion bonuses are low you mostly consider them as a way to continue leveling up, than an serious upgrade.
Btw, I HATE reclassing
One expectation to Thracia's bonus's being bad, promoting to sage, gives a massive bonus.
this thumbnail looks like a weird mobile game