🔴 NEW RELEASE!! Full Frame LEICA CL2 dressed as a Lumix S9! Perfect Camera?
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
- Can this new FULL FRAME pocket size camera replace some of my Leicas? New Lumix S9
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Hi Matt, I guess S9 is the one of the biggest missed opportunities by Pany. And I can't say it could replace anything. Well it might work for you who know exactly own needs, style of shooting and have dedicated cameras per purpose. But for most people:
- overheat and record limit will make it very uncomfortable to use
- lack of evf makes it uncomfortable under direct sun and in bright days
- there is also no weather sealing if i got it right
- lack of mechanical shutter
- and cold shoe
- oh and 4k60p crop (target audience is the tiktok folks, slow-mo needed!)
- 24mp only.
After all it makes it complete missmarket, either not in photo nor video, it's nowhere. There is used A7C exists and it looks much versatile for me: weather sealing, evf, EFCS, e-mount with number affordable used options and zeiss glass for the price of 26/8 pany lenscap... Or new A7CII / ZV-E1 which brings more value with price for the sure..
Very true. The zeiss glass you can get in e mount is better than the (zeiss) glass you can get for m mount. Unfortunately the Sony colours are a disaster even though they fixed it. They now do fake tan for skin tones (instead of the old green frog skin) and don’t let you turn off noise reduction in video. Such a shame…
Great summary and I totally agree. It’s a step forward but they missed the reason photographers buy cameras. Hopefully they’ll address that with the S9 II
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yes, hope so, at the same time we have been waiting that long for a new compact camera from Pany and after all we've got this. I feel me and other people hated S9 that much not even due to camera specs, but because Pany don't want to hear our needs, there was huge expectations (especially after powerful s5II and good G9II releases), but Pany marketing don't wish to recognise own customers needs.
the no viewfinder or hotshoe is the deal breaker but I do like some of the shooting modes
Yes it could be good. Hopefully the S9II will be the one!
Very same here!
This is interesting. For years I preferred to use a compact camera instead of a cellphone because a little viewfinder would help me to frame closer to what my eyes see, and to avoid the rolling shutter effect, specially when traveling by bus. It makes me feel like the designers grew up with cellphones as its DNA comes rather from them than from cameras. I don't say as something negative, I appreciate that there are options and with time we'll see the artists to whom this tool is perfect, who knows, maybe I could get one myself.
Yes I’m more an EVF guy too 100%
I think your Leica CL2 comparison is the most insightful comment from the whole S9 release din. Nicely done.
Thanks!
Having an Elect Shutter only, the Rolling shutter I’ve seen it’s pretty bad. I wished they left the option for an external evf. They could’ve made the S9 a really good rival to some of the Leica and Fuji offerings. Lack of EVF and mech shutter blows it. Maybe they should come out with small leaf shutter lenses. I don’t know if that would be possible.
I’ve been asking for this for the fp for 5 years. Never came. They aren’t bold enough.
Agree re EVF. That was my assumption til I read all the specs.
Funny how the Leica D-Lux 8 was just announced a couple of hours ago, and it's going to have a m43 sensor
Yes! I saw that after posting this and thought what the heck haha
If it had a mechanical shutter and a hotshoe i would buy one, even better if It worked with the Visoflex.. We need a CL replacement
100% let's hope this first model gets some interest so they make a second one for photographers! (with the stuff we need!)
The new S9 is quite perfect. Lighter than my S5 and I’m not a fan of the EVF bump and I rarely use it anyways, even in midday sun. Kudos to Panasonic for releasing a non dslr looking mirrorless camera 😊.
Thanks, yes I thought some might like it even if it's not for everyone!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Not every camera is suited to anybody. Except for iPhones 😬. Can’t wait for the Leica D-Lux 8 too!
Honestly, I think replacing your CL & M43 kit for an S9 is kinda insane
Thanks, I was just putting it out there. At first thought I liked the idea but the CL stays until they make an S9 with the features we need.
I think you totally nailed it, Matt. All we want is a full frame CL! The S9 is promising, especially if ones workflow is more video focus. But the lack of EVF, and the ability to have a modular EVF was a huge let down. I would seriously consider buying one to replace my premium point and shoot (Canon G7x mk ii), perhaps, like you said, wait for the S9II. Side note, I loaded one roll of 120 and one roll of 135 into my Paterson within the duration of this video lol
Thanks Rex and great multi-tasking! Nice!
Great thoughts Matt. I am quite impressed with the amount of pages the S9 has.
Thanks! I'd not planned to make this but people were already sending me questions so I thought get on it and put a video out (on my day off)(if there is such a thing haha)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom It was an intelligent angle to approach this S9, so kudos to you.
Great video, Matt!
I thought it might provoke some discussion if nothing else!
Can we breed the Lumix S9 and Leica D-Lux 8 to get a full frame compact camera with an EVF and flash capability, tilt screen, IBIS, and interchangeable lenses (I know, $6,000 Q)? Until then I am staying on the X100VI pre-order list. ASPC and fixed lens will have to do since I can't afford a Q.
haha that would be nice! :)
There is one big question unanswered: How will the S9 do with M-Lenses? How thick is the sensor stack? This is, at least for me, the biggest argument for a Leica M or Leica SL. (The only non-Leica I tried was the Sony A7S, which was terrible with M-Lenses)
Thanks for this info. I now do use a Sony A7S combined with vintage lenses and was thinking about a Leica SL.
@@nicokremers7150 Maybe it depends on the lens, but I have the 28 Elmarit (newest), Nokton 35/1.5, Nokton 28/1.5 and Summicron 50. They are all, including the Summicron, noticably worse on a A7S. No complains when used on a SL.
@@umue11Thanks. I use Olympus Zuiko OM lenses. But especially with wide angle lenses like 24mm I sometimes see strange effects. This makes me wanting to try the SL even more. 😉
Excellent point. The S5 is pretty good so I’d like to think as good as that but I have no data.
I had the same thought when I first saw the announcement and was surprised that no one compared it to the CL. And than you come and made this video :-)
By going over all of the existing full frame L mount autofocus lenses , I couldn’t find a lens that is as small as the TL18 or 23. The Leica SL lenses are huge and Sigma / Panasonic lenses are smaller but not small enough.
So without a small lens that fits the camera size - For me it’s still not a worthy TL replacement.
Thanks, yes that's why I made the video (unplanned!) Yes good point on lenses. They need to work on that aspect next.
Would rather have that new Leica D-Lux 8!😄
No I need to be able to change lenses :)
A big benefit of Micro Four Thirds is the lens size. Lenses can be way smaller than their full-frame equivalents! So you’re much less visible as a street shooter and carry around a lot less weight.
Thanks Rik, yes that was a massive oversight in this video.. lens size. I will cover that topic in a video soon.
Keeping my CL. Not for camera, but for lenses! Light, small, good quality! Perfect travel kit!
Great! You can use these lenses on the SL etc too (people use on the SL2 alot)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom right. But on a 24mp FF sensor I also lose resolution. If the S9 had 47mp, that would be a different story. But it has 24. So using the TL lenses, I’m down to what? 17 mp?
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom And, I don’t get the wonderful simple Leica menues!
@@rudigerwolf9626 That`s the issue I have when I use my CL lenses on my SL2s . Far from ideal but the native SL lenses are heavy and too good for my application.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Matt, thanks for making me think through this. With the SL3 and TL lenses... I gain 1 lb in weight. If you liked the CL's 24mp, you'll love the SL3's 26mp with the TL lenses. And I'm sure you'll miss the several pounds of lens weight. Just found my new travel kit.
If you prefer shooting from the hip, this camera is actually worse for you than many of the cameras around, because you'll certainly be shooting from the hip while moving, which means without the mechanical shutter (or stacked sensor) the photos will suffer from bad rolling shutter issue (and no bumping up the shutter speed to even 1/8000 won't help)
Great point. You can see I’m not really a hip shooter guy.
Hi Matt, interesting comparison.
I think the attractiveness of this camera differs depending on whether you shoot 35mm/full frame or a smaller format.
For someone who shoots this format already, I think this might make a good second camera. If you shoot mainly film but want a digital camera for a small percentage of your shots, this would be a good small lightweight way to use all of the lenses you are already carrying. IMO it would be most useful for RUclips content creators, many of whom I believe do not use a viewfinder and rely heavily on a flip-out screen.
As a micro 4/3 shooter, the weight and size of the entire system is important to me. I can carry a camera, superzoom, and 3-4 prime lenses which fit in a small hip bag for a total of about 2 pounds. Most full frame lenses would make that much heavier and larger. Along with that, the cost of m4/3 gear is a big factor. I can get a good m/3 camera for 1/3-1/2 of the price of the S9. And buying a full complement of full-frame lenses would be a considerable expense. For pros or committed amateurs who are willing to spend the money for larger format lenses I don't think this would be a problem but for the majority of m4/3 hobbyists, I think keeping the cost of the hobby to a reasonable level is important.
Will this sound the death knell for m4/3? I don't think so. Far more likely that will eventually come from gradual improvements in cell phones. When Apple comes out with a phone with a 200mm equivalent optical zoom I believe many m4/3 shooters will switch. Personally, a viewfinder is an essential feature but I think for many non-pros that is not that big a deal, especially for those who use their smartwatch as a remote viewfinder for their phone. I think what determines the profitability and longevity of any given format is what appeal to the majority of shooters, not the enthusiastic amateurs or pros. For m4/3, I think those people primarily shoot photos of their friends and families and travel destinations. Of course many of those have already switched but for the rest of them, phones are rapidly addressing the features that keep them with discrete cameras.
All great points thanks. Yes I overlooked the small lens size of MFT vs FF
Interesting shooting from the hip/armpit technique, will have to try sometime 👍
It was my inner AS' vibes haha :)
Matt, your content is the most lucid and thorough on YT. BRAVO. Please, consider unloading one of those lenses and get a nice lapel microphone.
Thanks, lots of videos waiting impatiently, lens reviews and others, yes I might have to try other mics as my podcast mic doesn't sound great unless i'm right on it (the audio for the slides)
Is it possible to connect a viewfinder to it ?
No that was my idea too but sadly they cut their options by fitting a coldshoe. Strange idea!
I like S9 ideal Cam B for my Lumix G9 is very cool combo for photo or video
Thanks yes it does make a tempting B camera!
Nah, electronic shutter for photography can be limiting. If you mainly shoot manual focus lenses, another camera to consider which is similar to the S9 is Sigma FP.
Thanks Wei, good shout on the FP
Is it true that banding starts at 1/250 & above.
I'm not sure but I would check the camera in a lot of detail before I looked to get one. I will likely wait for the next model to come out as I want a hotshoe / EVF etc
I only just got the S5II quite recently, so I don't know whether I'll get this, yet. If I did, it would complement rather than replace the TL2, as I could travel with small lenses doing double-duty in terms of focal length. I'm very pleased by the S9, though the lack of mechanical shutter and flash is a significant compromise.
Two wishes:
I hope Leica releases a version with a Fuji-licensed Hybrid VF;
and that Sigma releases a leaf-shutter lens or two for using flash with the fp/S9/Blackmagic. Note that DJI is now part of L-mount, and their Hasselblad imprint does produce central-shutter lenses, so it's not totally out of the question that they could re-mount some Hasselblad lenses.
Yes to Leica version with features and interesting about Hasselblad! Thanks!
I'll be hanging on to my Leica CL. I wish the S9 would have been a Lumix GX9ii or a Leica CL2.
Yes hopefully the S9II will have the missing features we need (or even better, Leica make a FF CL2 version!)
Thanks
The #LumixS7, #S7, #panasonilumixs7 ?
Pretty sure a lot of photographers would appreciate a lumix rangefinder FF using a body similar but updated to the GX8. Tilting evf, articulated screen (like the S1H or the X1001 or G5) - photographers don't really want a flippy screen- PDAF full frame sensor... I feel Panasonic should be been one of the main mirrorless makers if they did not stand too long to certain choices. The S9 is for vloggers but Panasonic is limiting them too much and themselves as well. Sony has those little shotgun microphones directly connected to the hotshoe, ECM-B10 and more... the cold shoe is very limiting. I am surprised... the G100 was a great idea but was missing couple of elements like IBIS, PDAF, microphone headjack... the ozo audio was a great idea... other makers are making great moves and stealing Lumix ideas as well... Panasonic should rethink their stuffs. The Sigma contemporary prime lenses will look great on a Lumix FF rangefinder style GX8.
Thanks and yes, I have the G100 and GX85 as you might have seen. I think if they make a S9II with the feature we need it will be a hit.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I see there is room for S7 between the S5 and the S9. Hope the S7 will be a pure Rangefinder FF, GX8 style. Thanks Matt.
I think the price of this tiny full frame camera is a total game changer. I am tempted to get it as a second camera to compliment my Sigma FPL because of its ability to shoot rock steady video. You may run into issues with B-roll if you like to set your camera to record you and then forget about it, because it has recording time limits. BTW have you tried the TTartisans 90mm f1.25? Let’s you take full body portraits while still blowing out the background. I would say it has a level of sharpness that is very flattering, and the bokeh is so smooth. It’s a monster lens though. I managed to be lucky enough to find one in L mount. They used to make this lens in all the mounts but according to their website they only make it in M mount now.
Yes it’s not Pete t but it’s got some benefits for sure. I know the lens. I’ll review a similar one soon but 75mm. Stay tuned!
Checking the homepage, it seems like Panasonic is aiming towards travellers with social media affinity.
Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to cut off necessary photography features.
The question is, will be there a improved Leica "S9" with EVF option and hotshoe in the future? 🙂
Hey Tobi, yes 100% Yes it looks promising that they can make a small FF camera with a similar look to Leica (based on my S5 vs SL testing), so hopefully the S9II will be for photographers!
When I found out the Leica D-Lux 8 will have a 17MP M43 sensor, I decided to look at this Lumix a lot harder...
Yes, a strange idea I think! (new Leica)
In a way it is what I have been hoping someone would make, but they have just left too many valuable features off it. Even if it had a hotshoe and the ability to mount something like the Olympus VF2 electronic finder, that may have saved it, but hell, £1500 they want for it! I think I'd go for a used Leica CL in preference, but with that dinky little kit zoom, which would get me out of paying through the nose for the Leica kit zoom;-)
Yes! So odd they did no hotshoe and no optional evf
It is certainly a beautiful camera and full-frame at that size is astounding. However, its not as small or as sure to autofocus as my RX100m7. It can't match the megapixels of my Leica Q2, and it has the same sensor as my Lumix s5ii. If the S9 had a viewfinder, a hotshoe, and a mechanical shutter I would sell the Q2 and stop carrying the RX100.
Thanks! Yes well said. I hope they make a second version to follow with the missing features and then I think I'd be too tempted to not buy it!
I have a Leica digital CL and all of the Leica TL lenses. If Leica made a full-frame version of the CL, lenses with effective focal lengths and apertures of the TL ones would likely be larger, and therefore defeat the compact nature of the camera.
Good point John, if you have TL lenses already the FL of those suits the APS-C sensor
Is there much advantage of S9 over S5 OG? Many suggest the lack of PDAF results in a better image. Sounds like the Elec shutter is also relatively slow on the s9. I want to get into this s9 but not sure, yet.
The S5 is a proper camera with all the features. The S9 is a fun camera with some features. Both can take the same photos in some conditions
Hi Matt✌
I often find myself looking through the EVF and seeing how the picture turned out, so I think it's ok to cheat. If I have to be honest, I also like the fact that I can check. I've also often found that the picture turned out too dark even though I selected the right time or aperture, as it's only manual, even with the Sony. 👌👌 Of course the technology continues to develop for the better, but in the case of the Lumix 9 it seems to be even more compact, I am satisfied with mine and don't need anything new so far, I prefer to invest in lenses 😁😁
Thanks, yes lenses are more important!
You are going to need a porter to carry all that equipment and security toting a Zulu Knobkarrie for protection!
Sell the ones on the left and keep the Leica cl. You know you want to!
The Lumix s9 sounds like a good choice.
haha life as a photography RUclipsr. The S9 sadly doesn't quite cut it I think but if I get to test one someday i'll be interested.
Maybe the Leica version will be announced in September..perhaps with a viewfinder
How good would that be. We can hope!
Thanks for another good video Matt, however the fact that it has no EVF is a deal breaker for me. I love to shoot my M cameras from the hip, but having an ovf in this case the rangefinder, it's important in critical for certain situations.
Thanks yes agree. Hopefully the next version will have one!
The Lumix is not going to replace my CL. The latter is just fun, easy to handle, and the image quality is such that I don‘t really think I need full frame. And I can use flash with the CL! 🎉
yes the idea was nice but I feel I need the hotshoe, EVF etc.
The missing EVF is the one reason this is a non camera purchase for me. Excellent thoughts and camera comparison.
Thanks, yes sometimes I use a screen so I thought maybe I could make it work but only really for 15-35mm shoots
Interesting. Not sure why Panasonic would make a manual focus pancake lens. I’ll keep my CL.
yes I thought it was odd too. They took a leaf from one of these pancake Chinese lenses that are MF
The S9 is nice, but I prefer my CL, just wish it had a FF sensor.
Yes I hope the S9II will have the features we need
i like the look of the Lumix S9, but the only downside is no viewfinder, but Matt its up to you, ..... good luck , great video
Thanks, yes I could probably make it work for wider lens shots but would miss the EVF for longer lenses. I'll wait for the next model!
I think that Leica CL2 might come in Lumix S9 style
Yes it’s one step closer
I would buy the S9 straight away if it had a mechanical shutter. I also might be able to forgive that and would still buy it for video purposes if it didn't have a 15 min 4k record limit. And that's on top of forgiving it for not having a hotshoe. The reason it doesn't have a hotshoe is if you don't have an ultra fast sensor like the Nikon z9 you can't sync flash with an electronic shutter. With the speed of that sensor the fastest flash sync speed with electronic shutter would be like 1/30s so it makes sense why they omitted it. If they had a mechanical shutter in it they would no doubt have a hotshoe because then it could sync flash with the shutter like any other camera. Im currently a Leica L/Nikon Z shooter so I guess my next hope for a good compact camera is Nikon releasing something like the ZF in a compact format.
Yes I think whoever does it first wins. For me I prefer the Lumix files / L mount as they are similar to Leica but Nikon make great stuff too.
I rather agree all the negative comments I read here. As well as I would never buy a Ricoh gr3, I won t buy this new Panasonic because of the absence of evf. For me it’s just not a camera but a phone dressed in a camera. It s really a pity because the sensor is good, the autofocus is really very good ( which makes the delivery of a new manual focus lens quite non sense), the video capabilities sufficient (even if a little low in 2024). In parallel and at the other extremity of the range, Leica just announced a new dlux 8 WITH a view finder, a m43 20mpix sensor, and an interesting and fast zoom covering the critical 24-75mm range and finally àLeica Q look. The price is high (1600€) but honnestly if I would need a small compact camera, I would rather buy this one. So this camera may be a success - I am not sure all the people who buy a Fuji x100vi are using the view finder - but Panasonic really missed something here and probably deliver his camera a little in a hurry - the favorite zoom is not yet available - and it s a pity.
Yes agree I think not having a EVF option was a big mistake
The Lumix S9 shall not replace the S5/S5ii. The S9 is meant for a totally different target group. The main advantage of the S9 compared to Sony etc. is the class leadinbg IBIS, colour science and the new LUT system, which is atm not available for the S5 series by the way. The S5 series is for serious video work, the S9 more for the casual video shooter for social media etc.
Thanks, yes 100%. Hopefully the S9II will be for still photographers too. I don't use either for serious video needs.
A small viewfinder a la the CL would have made this a real winner for me. Or at least a hot shoe withg the option of an external evf. Having neither is a weird choice imo.
Yes very strange choice by them omitting both
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Keeping my CL :-)
Fair play m8
Fairly optimistic view.
I cant see anyone buying it really, correct me if im wrong. Wait for the next iterations. Maybe its allowed a jump in camera tech and ideas of whats possible. But aimed at tiktokers thats already in the bin. Maybe im naive to the new world and maybe rhey make enough to spend on such a machine but im confused as to who theyre marketing to. Can it even take decent fotos to justify the price tag? Otherwise better off with a go pro.
Yes it’s a promising step but hopefully the next version will have all the missing features people want!
The Leica CL remains king. I wouldn’t replace mine with an S9.
Yes I think you’re right. We need a Leica S9 with all the features we need!
hilarious intro 🤣
Haha I thought i'd try to give a visual haha
No EVF which is deal breaker for me - keeping my CL!
Yes, let's hope they bring out a S9II!
I'll keep my S5 and look for a second hand Q or CL as I'm getting tired of my X100F as backup camera. S9 is going to be a flop, at least with people like me who look for a full camera experience.
Thanks, the CL and Q both offer a lot. I have the Q still too but prefer cameras where I can change lenses. Lenses make things interesting
I can see only one usecase: a very compact lens like the Sigma 45/2.8 and then an optical viewfinder. Set the camera to eye detect and you have a very compact camera. The af is so good now you can rely on it.
That’s a really expensive way to replicate a GR IIIx
@@bradl2636 full frame, ibis? If I would prefer aps c then I could keep my CL.
Yes I think Sony shooters work like this as I’ve seen
I’ll keep my CL and SL no questions
Both great performers!
And even a camera aimed for vloggers that can only shoot for 10-15 minutes does not make it ideal for talking head videos neither.
Yes 100% as I mention on one of the slides and yes I saw those limits for video use too. I think they aim at short content guys.
Leica D-Lux 8 has been delayed maybe the upside is Leica is rethinking its design choices for it.
Interesting. Yes I only saw it after posting this video
Petapixel said at the start of their video on S9 no weathersealing. IDK what that means, really; no expert, but it seems pretty sealed and Panasonic never does weathersealing ratings.
Thanks yes I watched that also but some written reviews say with weather sealing. I can't confirm
Leica just announced the M4/3 dux-8 or whatever.
Yes I saw that after posting this! Seems odd!
I am too old to be a hipster.
It's not giving extra features than other cameras out there.
It is to expensive as a fancy presse papier.
Hence, not for me 😂
Thanks for sharing your insides 🎉
Thanks Rob, I thought i'd try to be on the news for once. Rare for me haha.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom No problem but we are outgrown these kind of cameras
Nope. I watched several reviews on the S9. From those reviewers who were flown out gratis to Japan. Most of the feedback was lukewarm at best. Even then only one said they would use it instead of their X100 VI. But said he would never use it professionally.
yes I watched a few too. Looked fun but agree I think this is not aimed at "real" photographers
A very simple answer without waisting a lot of time on pointless compare is No it can’t replace any of mentioned cameras. It is not made for photography. The biggest issue with S9 that you mention is that there is no mechanical shutter and and not have EFC .So if you like a photos with a huge rolling shooter effect, banding, flickering and (the reason of cold shoe) not be able to sink anything with flash ,go ahead and spend the money.
Yes. They made some strange decisions with this camera and the normal features they didn’t include.
S9 would have been a great camera if it had an EVF. Without one it’s unusable for me. I live just north of the equator with plenty of bright sunlight, the back screen can’t win the fight with all that light. Shame really, but I suppose it’s really aimed at vloggers not stills photography
Hopefully the next one will have an EVF!
Leica M12 will probably solve all these problems. M size body with EVF/rangefinder switch. Or a Sl3s with a 36m sensor and smaller body. I think SL3 is close to ideal in terms of size. I tried one in NY leica store but decided to stay away for now. I have small hands and Sl3 grip is still too big for me. I find Nikon z6 or Fujifilm Xt5 to be of the ideal size and grip.
Yes with the collaborations I feel the S9 is still a positive step forward even if not perfect.
No view finder and only a cold shoe is a my personal worst case scenario. So I'll rather have to stick w. the Soy A7C
Yes i'm not quite sure what they were thinking.. coldshoe!! Someone needs sacking haha
MFT Lumix GM series
Super small!
No EVF, no way
and no hotshoe so not optional EVF. What were they thinking!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom just a real tiktok camera
What this reveals is that you have too many cameras! Time to clean house. For B roll, this could be useful for a content creator such as yourself. If that is the only way you use your M4/3 units, it might be a good trade. You are already into the L lens mount, so could use the 26mm f/8 for all kinds of things!
Thanks! Yes I had bought my M43 for B roll but I later got a modern iPhone (refurbed) to do the same job easier. I keep thinking I should keep as a small backup but I have zero interest in the photo they take as someone that prefers film. Yes maybe it's time to trade them.
Nearly all the comments below are very negative about this camera. I am not surprised. If you use a camera for taking images you intend to take, rather than just pointing at something and hoping for the best, then you need to see the image clearly before pressing the shutter. No EVF means this is impossible in bright (i.e.sunny) light with this camera. Amateur Photographer have tested this and say that in such light the camera is simply unusable in the sense that you can not see what you are taking. For me such a camera is a complete waste of money. Add to this the electronic shutter problems and no hot shoe and you have a camera in which all the main fatal flaws are designed in. I have no idea who this camera is for. Certainly not photographers.
Yes agree, it’s mostly aimed at content creators and short form video I think. Hopefully the next version will be for photographers too.
The Panasonic S9 is a full-frame GX9 and not even close to a CL. If Leica upgraded the CL to full-frame I'd get one but zero interest in the S9
Fair point. I can get similar images from the SL and S5 this is why I don't rule out the Lumix cameras (even if I don't use the S5!)
To me, it looks like Panasonic is encroaching into Leica M territory. If the next version of the camera comes out with an EVF and a hot shoe, they’ve done just that. Still, they’re competing with smartphones with their range of lenses, and I don’t think they’ll succeed. Compact MFT cameras still compete with smartphones when telephoto lenses are required. And I’d rather be holding out such a camera in front of me than my iPhone. I think Panasonic and Olympus have made a mistake in abandoning them.
Thanks, yes I agree MFT are fun with longer lenses but iPhone is so easy for wider shots. Leica and Lumix have worked together in the past and the CL was perhaps closer to a Pany-Leica anyway so it makes sense for Lumix to make it and Leica to stick to the M as their small model (even though I much prefer the styling and simplicity of Leica)
What kills these cameras are the huge lenses. M is still king. I guess you could use a converter for my M lenses, but then I would lose autofocus which defeats the whole purpose.
Thanks Carlos. I’ve got a video to come in this. Stay tuned!
Sorry, keeping my CL, the LUMIX just doesn’t beat it.
I think me too but i'm excited to see if they make a v2 with all the missing features included!
No viewfinder is bad but no hot shoe in 2024 is insanity .This isn't a budget camera price it makes no sense.
100% agree. I'm not sure what they were thinking. At least the TL cameras have the hotshoe for the optional EVF.
No. Not even close. Dud Camera of 2024.
I see it as a positive. Technology is advances so small FF cameras are now possible and good versions of are one step closer!
No evf. Not a replacement
Yes, hopefully the next version will have a hotshoe/ EVF and the stuff we need
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom IAM a rangefinder old school guy even eye sight going like my evf or ovf 😀
I had hopes for this camera, but it’s not a useful camera for my needs. Are you sure about weather sealing? I thought reviewers mentioned no weather sealing. It’s not listed in the specs. For MFT, I don’t think the S9 or anything currently announced in the l-mount ecosystem can match the size of MFT when lenses are added. The Leica versions of L-mount are huge and I find even the Panasonic lenses to be large on my S5. The “compact” lenses announced are no benefit against the Olympus 12-40 f2.8, which can be had for a few hundred dollars on the used market. And many of the other MFT lenses are tiny and perform well for a small fraction of the cost. Sure they aren’t full frame, but you’re not getting that shallow depth of field from full frame when you are dealing with apertures of 4.8+ with these compact lenses. The existing L-mount lenses will be very awkward on such a small camera. It might have been a better design to do an integrated lens.
Yes great points. I read about weather sealing but other sources say not so it’s unclear. Yes good point about lenses. I’ll cover this topic soon.
No EVF, why are we giving this camera any attention? It’s a ridiculous thing and a total missed opportunity. I’m curious to see how it does and if we’ll be taking about it in 12 months.
I'm hoping if enough people comment the same things then they'll make a v2 with all the missing features! EVF, hotshot etc etc
The Ricoh does really well without an EVF.
Two important missteps the CL hasn’t made - no EVF and no mechanical shutter. Pass
Yes sadly, hopefully the S9II!
Honestly, watching all the RUclips reviewers (I don't consider you in this category as have much more respect for you than that!).... I'm super suspicious of all of them gushing about it .... after they were flown to Japan to test it out ... I mean shooting street in Japan with any camera is going to be an amazing experience.
Personally ...... no mechanical shutter ... no EVF/OVF .... I'd never in a million years choose it as a photography camera. But I'm pretty sure I'm not their target market so my opinion is pretty unimportant! :)
Thanks! Yes I saw the videos of all the guys in Japan. This was just my opinion to the news as a discussion point as I’m rarely on trend with any of my videos. People were asking me so I thought better to put a video out. I feel it’s a positive step forward but currently lacking too many features we need.
can not.
It's almost good!
No evf? Not for me.
Yes the same answer for many people
Shame on Panasonic for not inviting you to their event. Ironic because you’re actually a Lumix fan and most of them are Sony shills
Haha yes I did see a lot of familiar faces at the event (on RUclips*) but i'm only a small fish and likely not on the non-Leica radars ..but thanks!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom time for Leica to come out with an equivalent (or even hot shoe evf) compatible version of the s9 😂. Possibly a thin sl style sensor stack for m-lens compatibility too.
Wow m4/3 dies Realy what about the lenses? The camera may be virtually the the same size but lenses most certainly aren't. Come ead man, thought you were better than this ;-)
Thanks Dennis! Ah yes, fair point about the M43 lenses that can be small. Hmm, you have a good point there.. I was only looking at the body size. Noted!
...No.
Yes I think we need to wait til future releases but it’s a step in the right direction.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom It's hard to understand the omissions - and for the price?!
The s9 is a horrible hip shooter. The best hip shooters and tilting screens because the screen is hidden behind the camera when hip shooting. The s9 has an articulating screen. It pops up to the side and telegraphs to everyone you are shooting. This, the the main deal breaker for me, not the lack of ms nor the lack of evf. Sad
Interesting. You can see I'm not a hip shooter. That makes sense, thanks!
Sorry, I commend anyone making new products and keeping photography going, but this train wreck of a camera makes absolutely no sense and the appallingly useless manual focus-fixed F8-cannot use filters-plastic mount idiotic 26mm kit lens is not for real, this is a total joke. Wait! It's all real. If anyone still has any doubts that this industry is on a downhill managed by morons, then look at this release carefully and maybe you'll see the light. Don't blame mobile phones, AI, or any other lame excuse. Blame the people making these cameras, lenses and inconceivable decisions. The camera industry is being killed by the industry.
Yes there were definitely some questionable decisions made with this setup. Hopefully the next one will be better
I think I will sell all of my M4/3 gear. Simplify .
It doesn't look like a bright future for M43. I will likely do the same
Untill FF lenses are as small as MFT lenses i don't see MFT going anywhere.
Yes fair point, see the next video where I talk about small lenses
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom : I saw and enjoyed that video but it did not address the longer focal lengths beyond 90mm with AF, which MFT does well on top of its prime lenses. BTW I dont shoot MFT
Hi Matt✌
I often find myself looking through the EVF and seeing how the picture turned out, so I think it's ok to cheat. If I have to be honest, I also like the fact that I can check. I've also often found that the picture turned out too dark even though I selected the right time or aperture, as it's only manual, even with the Sony. 👌👌 Of course the technology continues to develop for the better, but in the case of the Lumix 9 it seems to be even more compact, I am satisfied with mine and don't need anything new so far, I prefer to invest in lenses 😁😁
Lg Anderl
Thanks