Etruscan Language, part 1 - Theory of Italian Origin
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2022
- Etruscan Language, part 1 - Theory of Italian Origin, Proto-Villanovan culture, Villanovan culture, Proto-Tyrrhenian Language, Etruscan Language, Rhaetic Language, Lemnian Language
Music:
Decision - The Tower of Light
For those wondering about how the Tyrrhenian Languages made it to Lemnos, I saw a map one time that theorized the Tyrrhenian languages used to encompass most of southern Europe prior to the Indo-European expansion.
Is it also possible that the Etruscans were one of the "Sea Peoples" that raided and migrated into Asia Minor in the bronze age collapse?
@@Anonymous-376 definitely possible, but its also believed by some that the sea peoples could have been mostly mycenaean.
im not an expert though, and those are just things ive heard.
@@spcxplrr wrong. None are "most". You can say "many" were because there were MANY Greeks, but also (less) many Anatolians, Sardinians, Sicels and Cypriots.
Can you send me a link to this map I am very curious 😄
@@Anonymous-376 It could've also been Tyrrhenian mercenaries hired by the Myceneans who subsequently established themselves on Lemnos.
Lemnian is a real mystery still. I remember hearing a theory that the Pre-IE Greek language (Pelasgian) was also related to Tyrrhenian
Pre greek has been reconstructed and it’s not related to Lemnian or other Tyrrhenian languages
@@antonioconstantinmusicAny links you could send me about this topic you mentioned?
No, they were not albanians, serbians or turks. You are welcome.
Thank you, I'm so sick of these nationalists claiming them to be one of their group.
As an Albanian myself, I am tired to explain this to Balkaners and Turks but they end up inventing weirder theories that make less sense than they already claimed before, they are hot headed af.
@@julianfejzo4829 more people like you please. Once I gave them etruscan texts and asked them to translate. When they tried failed, of course😂.
@@gtc239 and even if they were they would be indo european so related to every indo european people🤷🏻♂️
Lmao
Great video! I took an Etruscan art class over the summer and delved into the language to be able to read their inscriptions. I was in Italy and visited one of their necropoli, in Orvieto (Velzna). This video reflected everything I learned!
Thank you very much
My god hearing about such a thing as an "Etruscan art class" makes me So jealous!
Was not expecting this one and didn’t get a notification when it came out, this is a very cool surprise
great video man. I love this channel for its mapping of language families
Pretty good video. Looking forward to the other video(s) on the other theory/ies.
Thank you very much
I wish we still had Uncle Claudius' History of the Etruscans
can't wait for the part two!!
Glad to see that you upload new video of language. When will you finish videos about the history of Tai-Kadai and Hmong-Mien languages respectively?👀
Thank you
Is it still unknown how Lemnian as a language occurred? Is the greatest theory just “some Etruscans washed up there for a few generations then were assimilated”?
In a way, it's unsure how Lemnos is connected to the Etruscans
I heard one time that the Tyrrhenian languages once encompassed the entirity of southern europe prior to the indo-European expansion.
@@slyninja4444 Makes perfect sense to me that the pelasagians or minoans could be tyrrehnian. I wonder if basque is related or pictish?
@@Teapoid pictish is a celtic languages
If the theory of Italian origin is correct, you can imagine the origin of Lemnian as Etruscan merchants creating a trading post and then settling the island, or mercenaries hired by some of the Greeks in the endless wars between poleis who then settled the island. Apparently there are reports of previous inhabitants of Lemnos related to the Thracians, so one way or another there was a migration from the west.
Great video.
Thank you
A recent theory proposes that Italo-Celtic had several branches: a pre-Celtic British branch, a pre-Celtic Belgian (Nordwestblock) branch, a pre-Celtic branch in Czechia & Poland & East Germany, Celtic, Ligurian, Lusitanian, Latino-Sicelian and Osco-Venetian (and maybe more). Celtic developed in eastern France and southern Germany ("Hercynia"), and spread vigorously across France, Benelux, Britain, Ireland, central Germany, Czechia, Austria and Hungary. According to this theory, Italic was already two distinct branches within Italo-Celtic, and its later similarities came due to a sprachbund in the Italian Peninsula, but the "Latino-Sicelians" may have been in the western Alps along with Ligurians, invading southeast across the sea and conquering western Italy and Sicily, becoming Latino-Faliscan and Sicel. On the other hand, "Osco-Venetians" may have been in the eastern Alps and invaded southwest across the sea and conquering Venice and eastern Italy, becoming Venetian (not the Italian dialect) and Osco-Umbrian. Amidst these, the Italian natives survived in the northwest and central Alps as these Tyrrhenians, who may have retaken a partially "Indo-Europeanized" Corsica as well.
My ideas are similar to this. Tibor Feher has an interesting theory on this in his paper "Celtic and Italic from the West" which is worth reading.
Some people group the Sicels in with the Latins ethnolinguistically, while others hypothesize it to be a separate branch of Italic. Supposedly some linguistic affinities have been found between Sicel and Latin though.
Less sure about Ligurian and Latin. Iron Age Ligurians, or some of them, may have been Celticized in centuries prior but before that may have spoken something closer to Italic/Latin,
but I do like the idea of a Liguro-Latin-Siculi continuum. The genetic evidence is plausible as well.
The latins came from north italy ( po valley) from terramare culture and proto-Villanovian culture. Thew were very similar to the etruscan, both were 2/3 EEF and the rest 1/3 was steppe and WHG. They cluster with modern northen and central ( especially tuscany) italians, souther french and spaniards
World first cultures Lepenski vir, Starcevo, Vinca culture today Serbia.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Harman about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan, Wendi, Illiyrians, Dardanians (Troy is here ,not in Turkey Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Tracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians, Etruscan. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgariens from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
Thats interesting!
Thank you
It is a cool video but I think it would have benefited from some more explanations regarding the many theories, this video also fails to mention Camunic which was probably included in this family
very interesting ive always been wondering of the languages before indo european conqured europe
The etruscans were of indo European blood, their language was not indo european
@@christopherhardy8808 what was it?
It belongs to the Paleo-European Languages, the languages substratum before the Indo-european arrival
@@christopherhardy8808 not indo european, just *european
the eef Early European Farmers g2a
Long time no see!
Was Tyrrhenian group of languages of Indo-European (Celto-Italic)stock? Or was it separate unknown group of languages?
Non-indo-european
όμως πως γήνεται να μηλούσαν στη Λέμνο μία Τυρρήνικής προέλευσης γλώσσα; Αυτή είναι η μεγαλήτερη μου απορία.
then how is it possible for people to speak a Tyrrhenian based language in Lemnos? that's my question.
there's a non-zero chance that one group of what we now call the Sea Peoples, the Teresh, mentioned in Egyptian sources regarding what we call the Bronze Age Collapse were Tyrrhenians, and Greek sources mention some Tyrsenian pirates. They could've settled in the Aegean during the late Bronze Age, of which the Lemnians were the only long-lasting group.
That's, at least, based on this video. I believe the title of the video implies we'll see at least one other video for a different theory of origin.
EDIT: A word.
According to one view, they were found in the northern Aegean as Mycenaean mercenaries, during the Trojan War. There are also the view about the Anatolian origin of the Tyrrhenians but with less archaeological arguments
@@bvthebalkananarchistmapper5642 oh. That reminds me of the terramare culture. It was a culture that vanished at the bronze age collapse and it was located in northern italy, where etruscans where living. There are theories of the terramare becoming the sea people so maybe it is that
I saw a map one time that showed the Tyrrhenian languages once encompassed most of southern Europe prior to the indo European expansion.
Hence, Lemnos was a Refugium for the language during the indo-European expansion.
My favorite theory goes like this:
1. The Tyrrhenian languages started in Anatolia or the Ægean.
2. The Trojans spoke Lemnian or something similar.
3. The Iliad is basically true, but the Trojans settled in Etruria (look at vaguely similar names) instead of Rome.
4. Etruscan and Rhætians are descendants of the Trojans (at least in part), hence the languages being similar to Lemnian.
Trojans spoke an Anatolian language, most likely Luwian
No they were clearly Albanian
Troians were Luwians who called their country "Wilussa".
Not claiming to be an expert, but the fact that lemnian found itself in the middle of greece is very likely due to the fact that the etruscans were part of the sea people civilisation. Obviously they werent the only ones but it would be a logical and rational explanation to why a tyrrhenian language found itself in the middle of greece
Theory One I believe less, but having it evolve side by side with the Italic languages is an interesting theory.
Lemnian had some balls for surviving that long
What happened to part 2???
Ciao a tutti!!!
Da Rio, in Brasiiiiiiile
Abbraccio
Gave me goosebumps the moment tyrrhenians were slowly fading away.
Nice video
Thank you
@@CostasMelas you're welcome
I guess this timeline is starting in 1500 BC?
There’s a theory that they were related to today’s Basques, and were also native europeans
Sad, that its language now dont exist, but i found text in the Etruscan here its text:
İta tmia icac he ramasva vatieke unial astres đemia sa mek đuta đefa riei velianas sal cluvenias turu ce munistas duvas
Great video! I think the etruscan language is disappered because of the romans
Thank you. Υes the main reason was the roman expansion
What program you use?
Paintnet and blender
maybe related to hattic and kaskian
How do you make your maps? Like what websites?
Free shapefiles databases from universities, nasa etc
@@CostasMelas and the programs?
How is Lemnos related???
Do you plan to continue Afroasiatic languages?
I will be back later with this family
For those who wonder how Etruscan got in Lemnos the answer is mercenaries
They could have been part of the sea peoples invasion.
How do you know?
@@eyuin5716 books
Η Λήμνος είχε δικιά της γλώσσα; Ποιος θέλει να μένει σε ένα νησί-έρημος;
Ετρούσκοι, Έλληνες, ιλλυριοι είναι Πελασγοί
Θα ήθελα ένα βίντεο για τους Πελασγους
Πελασγοί ήταν όρος γεωγραφικός και περιελάμβανε τους προινδοευρωπαιους που κατοικούσαν στην ελληνική χερσόνησο πριν την άφιξη των Ελλήνων ,γύρω στο 2100 π.Χ.
Η μίξη πρωτοελληνων Ινδοευρωπαίων και μη Ινδοευρωπαίων Πελασγών οδήγησε στην εθνογενεση των Ελλήνων.
Οι Ιλλυριοί είναι ινδοευρωπαικος λαός για τον οποίο γνωρίζουμε ελάχιστα πράγματα όσον αφορά την γλώσσα που μιλούσε.Αμφισβητειται η σχέση με την Αλβανική γλώσσα καθώς πιστεύεται ότι οι Αλβανοί ήταν μάλλον θρακικής καταγωγής.
Οι Ετρούσκοι ήταν ένας προινδοευρωπαικος λαός στην περιοχή της Ιταλίας και των νησιών της Σαρδηνίας.Καμια σχέση μεταξύ τους.
how is there lemnians in a random greek island
It's the Island of Lemnos. There was an inscription or two found there written in a language very similar to that of Etruscan
@@christopherhardy8808 Yes. why though. why they were speaking a similar language there, far away from the Tyrrhenian sea?
@@lingoteen there is a hypothesis that states that the Etruscan people are connected with the greeks or phoenicians
@@arminiuscherusci4410 🤣
these groups in the italian peninsula had cultural ties with greek so maybe these were some guys that moved there
They got Italicized :/
Happy Indo-European noises
Sad Early European Farmer noises
*Romanized
Romanised
*Romanized
Idiot
*Somalified
Well etruscans were indo-europeean too,they just kept their previous costumes much like in the basque country
Rhaetic was said to spread out also in direction of the balcans. Why is this not reflected. Plus, genetic research asserts, that the etruscians were originating somewhere in the caucasian region
The Rhaetians did not extend towards the Balkans. The Celtic Norians and Italic Veneti blocked them off. They stayed in the Alps after Celtic migrations into the Po river valley cut them off from their Etruscan kin
@@christopherhardy8808 So why are the terms "raetz", "radi", "rác", "raethisch", "raether" used to describe slavic ethnicities in the area of former Yugoslavia?
@@elwont ignorance? Just like native Americans are called Indians despite being totally unrelated.
Do the uralo althaic languages theories plz.
That theory is no longer accepted.
It’s Altaic and that theory has been debunked for years.
ruclips.net/video/fGLctziOc3w/видео.html
This might be the shortest lived language ever.
RIP
Lemnos? How come ?
They were probably one of the waves of Sea Peoples during the Bronze Age collapse. According to some theories, they arrived in the northern Aegean as pirates or Mycenaean mercenaries.
Basque, Etruscan, Urartu, Mannaean, Turkic, Old Ibero and Vasconians, Rhaetic and Lemnian was Agglutinative Related R1b Haplogroup
Rip Etruscans you shall be missed
Yet, you are still with us, in 'person'.
@@joshthalheimer And "Rome"
Didn't Lemnos speak an Attic Greek dialect in the classical age?
Yes, after 6th century
@@CostasMelas ohhh interesting, thanks!
Italian origin?
There is also the Anatolian Origin theory
ruclips.net/video/fGLctziOc3w/видео.html
F
World first cultures Lepenski vir, Starcevo, Vinca culture today Serbia.
World first industrial revolution ca. 6000 BC. Bronze metallurgy. (BBC History news March 2010)
Gordon Childe-The Danube in Prehistory, Jacque Pirenne-Agriculture at Danube
Farming start about 6000 BC. Vinca First Calendar start to count years at 5508 BC. Farming wouldn’t be possible without knowledge of calendar. Both development started and developed together.
Harald Harman about first cyrillic writings in Vinca culture in 5500 BC so 2000 years before any writings anywhere else on the world.
Vinca Iron production 1400 BC.
In today English language there is more than 2000 same or similar Serbian words.
Names of the Balkan tribes: Pelasgians, Mycenaeans, Etruscan, Wendi, Illiyrians, Dardanians (Troy is here ,not in Turkey Homer wrote sea is freezing in the winter-Panonian sea), Moesians, Dacians, Tracians, Rasci, Celts, Scythians, Sarmatians, Arians, Sea People, Peleset, Philistines, Hittites, Bhrygians, Etruscan. Tribes spread in all directions all over Europe and Asia …….
Wild Greeks arived ~ 1000 BC from Egipt, Hungarian from Asia and Bulgariens from Asia they found culture on the Balkans, writings and language and they mixed with domestic people. 18 Roman emperors were born in Serbia because of Etruscan connection.
What on earth is lemnos doin there🤨
Two Tyrrhenians inscriptions have been found in Lemnos. There were two different theories about their presence in Lemnos. One of them connects them to Mycenaean mercenaries during the Trojan War or pirate settlements during the same period.
@@CostasMelas interesting
@@CostasMelas I'll add to this. The Etruscans had a reputation among the Greeks for being pirates. It was unwarranted, but nevertheless, the reputation was there.
What da Lemnos doin?
R A S N A L
Shame they didn't survive, i wish there's another non Indo-European language in Europe other than Basque. (I know Uralic and Turkic but..)
Tbh I wish dozens of Neolithic languages and cultures as well as European hunter gatherer languages and cultures. Unfortunately the Indo-European onslaught said no.
Hungarian is not a Uralic language. However, it is not Indo-European, just as Etruscan was not!
ruclips.net/video/fGLctziOc3w/видео.html
Grover S. Krantz: Magyarság, the founding people of Europe's culture
Grover S. Krantz (1931-2002), a world-renowned American anthropologist and professor at Washington State University, recognizes in his work "The Geographical Development of European Languages" that Hungarians, who have been treated as Europe's stepchildren until now, are the founders of Europe's culture.
According to him, the u.n. "Indo-European languages" developed very late in Europe. That is why 30% of their vocabulary is not of "Indo-European" origin, and there are no "Indo-European" river names on the early maps of Europe.
We are more interested in the following sentence: "...so the Greek language was formed in its current location in 6500 BC, and the Celtic language in Ireland in 3500 BC. The antiquity of the Hungarian language in the Carpathian Basin is similarly surprising; I find that its origins lead to the Mesolithic, preceding the Stone Age."
Furthermore: "At least on one important point, the theory of people's migration is the opposite of the previous theorem. It is generally believed that the Hungarians of the Urals lived in the 9th century. century, they moved into the Carpathian basin from an eastern area. I find that all groups speaking the Uralic language spread from Hungary, in a much earlier age, in the opposite direction."
Grover S. Krantz, The Geographical Formation of European Languages. (Ősi Örökségünk Alapítvány, Budapest, 2000) Original title and publisher of the work: Geographical Development of European Languages Peter Lang Publishing Inc. New York 1988. Translated by: Imre Kálmán
@@benyovszkyistvan408 It's a Uralic language, you dimwit. It's a Uralic language that's influenced by Turkic and Indo-Iranian languages like in the numbers. Stop being a braindead ultra-nationalist.
@@gtc239
Your mother is an idiot! You have been very misled by the propaganda! You monkey can only write stupid lies? Now listen carefully!
ruclips.net/video/fGLctziOc3w/видео.html
Georgians 🇬🇪
А вот этрусский генотип встречается ещё до 7-го века т
этоуский родственен чеченскому языку и языкам хурритов и урартов
Нет, они вообще не похожи
@@user-cl7pm7zm3x они родственны, читай Иванова, Старостина, Дьяконова, гиганты лингвистики, все остальные на них ссылаются.
@@Nokhchiydu это не доказано. Теорий всегда дофига и с любыми семьями и любым языком родство пытаются связать. Едтнственные доказанные родственники этрусского это ретийский(в алтпах) и лемносский (на греческом острове лемнос)
MARIO ALINEI:
Etrusco: una forma arcaica di ungherese, Il Mulino, Bologna, 2003
Etruscan language was slavic language
Nuh uh, Etruscan wasn't even Indo-European.
@@Nastya_07 ahahahah yes they are slavic their town is named Voltsi , their own name in teir language Rašan - Rasna
@@-qwertyy3 The city wasn't named "Voltsi", in Latin, the city was called "Volsinii" and in Etruscan, it was called "Velzna" or "Velusna"
And "Rasna" is a shortened form of "Rasenna"
Doesn't sound very Slavic to me.
@@Nastya_07 of corse , lating language is maded by mixing slavic etruscan language with migrants that conquered them , dude i know There is thousand more etruscan words that are same like in slavic , they never translated etruscan language because they are tryng to do it with Latin language or old grecce language but never with slavic languages , Etruscians were old slavic tribe , that fact and doesn't matter what they told u on Universities that are fake and full of nosense in novadays
@@Nastya_07 It sound Exactly slavic you have exactly same words in todays slavic languages
que pena
Etruscan was not part of Indo-European Languages. The most closest ones are Basque and other Caucasus Languages. But still, no Indo-European. Therefore it cannot be part of Italian Language.
No one said they were, it just means that their origins are in present-day Italy
No. Indo-European languages are closer to Etruscan than the above ones.
@@maciejkulczycki3882 ? Indo-European languages are not related to Etruscan, idk why Indo-European nationalists think they were everywhere but you should research instead of saying bullshit
@@AlkanmyshYngyr
Temper your ego: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostratic_languages
Mario Alinei identifies Etruscan with the Hungarian language. Here is the proof:
ruclips.net/video/fGLctziOc3w/видео.html
Etruscans were West Slavs
Nuh uh, the Etruscans weren't even Indo-European to begin with.
@@Nastya_07 Lo divennero però con il tempo con la invasione Italo-Celtica/R1b Bell Beakers dall’ Istria tipo 40% Yamnaya 60 Pre-Indoeuropeo, oggi i moderni Toscani sono identici in tutto per tutto al resto dei Nord Italiani R1b
english etruscan turkish
good ii iyi
To be am im-um
honest ak ak/dürüst
Elder brother. aga aga
Ancestor ataapa atası
Grandfather tata deda
Boy elan oğlan
Person/soldier er er/kişi
Person kis kişi
Now ena an
All heva hep
Box kutum kutu
Day tin tan
There is more of this but I need to take a break, however etruscan is an aglutinante language like the Turkish, both have vocal harmony, neither have artical nor prefixes, both use the same comparison appendix, both have question suffix and in both languages adjectives come before the noun.
In real etruscan, not the one you made up to make it similar to turskish, good is mlaχ, ancestor is nacn, grandfather is apa nacna or papa, boy is huš,day is tins.
@@galgar5660 you don't know how to work the etruscan alphabet, it is Greek but with strong cuneiform iç tendencies as adopted by the trojans turks, good is ii, I have no idea how you came up with 'mlax or nacn', grandfather >tata >dede grandfather's fathers >ataapa >atası, boy>elan>olan, huş or rather has=boy related to/son,and day is tin>tan
@@turistomer3702 these words comes from Etruscan inscription, which are written with the Etruscan alphabet which is derived from Greek alphabet simply turned cause they wrote from right to left. Etruscan isn't related to Turkish, there is no lexical or grammatical similarity nor the two people have cultural similarities and when Etruscan was spoken Turkic people still leaved in Central Asia, quite difficult for them to be related. Or are you really claiming you can understand Etruscan?
@@galgar5660 this is getting more absurd by the minute, what you call the greek alphabet originates from the e Egyptian alphabet, Egyptian alphabet in its cuneiformic adoption originates from the sumerian alphabet which in turn originates from the kenger Turkic, which is why their direct descendents the trojans >truva>turkova (turkson), still spoke it but used the greek alphabet as it was used at the time in Western Türkey and took it with them to Etruria, the land of their brethren, so we've been in Asia minor a lot longer then most including the Greeks,
No cultural similarities!!!!!!?, firstly the name etruscan derives from the Turkic word türsakans, which means Turkic farming settlement,they did not call themselves Rasena but they referred to themselves as such because that was the name of their homeland on the shores of the caspian sea, so it was Rasen a as in coming from Asenna, Asenna was also the name of the promised land in their Turkic religion of Tengrism and also the name of the she-wolf that would lead them there, as per bronze artifect unearthed in tuscany of her suckling what looks like romulus and remus, it was a frontier settlement and would've been part of a huge confederacy stretching from Iceland to Japan and only spoken language was uraltaic Turkic , founder of roman empire Aeneas was a trojan from Etruria, much of what passes for European history is something the Europeans twisted and concocted into something politically suitable in the last 200 years or less, just to give you an example, when 2000 years later the Ottoman turks arrived to take constantinapole, the city was a buzz with rumours that the trojans were back to take the city and a letter was sent to Rome afterwards by the turkish telling the Pope not to side with byzantium as through the trojans, the Turkish and the Italians shared a common culture and infact some 500 years later in 1922 when the founder of modern Türkey Atatürk drove the Greeks in to the agean, he wrote in his memoirs that if nothing" I've avenged Hector."
@@turistomer3702 ok, translate this: Vacal tmial avilχval amuce pulumχva snuiaφ.
great video man. I love this channel for its mapping of language families
Thank you very much