@@daf4tman783 yes. On the right end of their character bar in the tally screen should be a symbol (thumbs up/down) that appears if you hover over it. This is the report button and it also works with anonymous mode or even people who DCed
@@lapisinfernalis9052Reporting someone for DCing is a very tight rope- There can be legitimate reasons why they DCed, such as their electricity going out, an emergancy just hapoened, or they have very shoddy net. (I'm in the last catergory there). So yeah- Don't jump right to 'Oh they DCed because of the killer got them', or 'The killer DCed because they are on the wrong map/ Didn't get any kills/ they are getting outplayed'. So yeah, report hackers, bit don't report people DCing.
@@TheFlamingTurkey I rarely (if ever) report people for DCing, but I thought it was worth a note because one might think the game does not know who the player was after a bot took over.
This is potentially the most satisfying game of the streak so far. We thought that Hag streak was gonna get murky and seeing you kill the cheater anyway was 😙👌
Had a match with a meg who was going around healing the air and then teleported to survivors when they got downed and jumping to 1000 ping. In the end game chat they were saying that they had bad internet baring in mind they waited 15 minutes for the match to end after they died, to tell my solo queue team.
Playing devil's advocate here, but like, if you're gonna cheat, there are 10000 more interesting things you could do than just speed hacks and lag. Why not go all out. Go sicko mode, ya know?
Blatant cheaters are just fucking around/wanting to hold the game hostage. Subtle cheaters are the ones trying to use cheats to “win.” This person was the second one.
@@somecanadiangirl1not necessarily. Its just a matter of whether or not they feel like being annoying and hold the game hostage. I’ve had blatant cheaters and never had one hold it hostage (not saying it doesn’t happen but its rare if you’re just a random player)
Maybe I take gaming too seriously, but I have Zero respect for cheaters. Like on a personal level. I remember being in a discord and this one dude just straight up admitted that he's a cheater. The disgust I felt was life changing lol
@@demonEyenjThese same people only use the "it's just a video game" excuse until the same shit happens to them. As soon as their games start being ruined by cheaters, they're the first ones to start bitching about it to anyone who'll listen.
Oh dude! So the Cheryl I was up against was cheating. I recently had a Cheryl on stream that was exceedingly.. fast, and I couldn't tell, since I was wraith, and I was cloaked, and I thought maybe sprint burst but- no, she was fast the entire game. Couldn't even catch up cloaked. Ended up having to kill everyone else and watch her teabag on the hatch. Unfortunate. Nice one, though, spooks! 💜
What a W spook! Had a cheater once before, they were playing as the twins and they were somehow throwing hatches like the huntress which was weird and was no clipping to 😂
I want to thank you for your fantastic videos, especially the ones where you cover toxic community members. They have been super enjoyable and have also made me realize how toxic I was. I saw them doing things I've been guilty of and now I have been given the resolve to change my ways and try to enjoy games more. So far it has been going well, so thanks, and i can't wait for your next video!
I can agree that she could’ve been cheating but not on console. Lots of cheaters like to make it look like they’re on console. Bet you anything she was on PC.
For a second with seeing the two Cheryl's and one on cross plat I thought maybe it wasn't console After seeing the red bar next to the icon, then it kinda confirmed it with the high ping and only one with a red bar Beautifully played
This is the most boring hacker ever. I bet theyre not even having fun either. Kinda reminds me of a time when a Feng Min player tried that locker exploit on me, then a month later, i meet her again, and she ragequits as soon as i down her.
I have Cheaters almost every day on my killer sessions, and I’m not paranoid or anything, I am talking about cheaters I can confirm. This is getting wild
I do not condone cheating and would never do it. But if I were to cheat in Dead by Daylight without worry of being caught, I think my superpower in the game would be to always see the Killer's aura even if Blinded. Information is a good ability that allows ways to hide better and know you are safe.
I was about to comment the usual "you can't cheat on console", but yes, lag switching is also cheating. Lag switching to extend the sprint burst until the lag switch is turned off... That's insane. And still died. So bad.
Check out Cheryl's (cheaters) player screen. No console icon, hence on PC. Spooknjukes just assumed because he and the other 3 survs were on console that she was too.
She is on console if spook is. The little globe means they're on a different system than you, most people just associate it with console players though because most content creators and players in general play on PC so when someone playing on a different system (console) shows up there's a globe by their name. If there's no globe they're playing the same thing as you
Dude literally a week ago I faced the exact same person with the same skin on the same map as a survivor me & this Ash tried to do gens but the Cheryl would be useless just running around the map not helping. For sure gave that guy a report! . I assume that this is a bug with sprint burst + vigil judging from the cheaters build. Hoping that this will get fixed soon.
Lastnight I had a unfortunate game of playing against a survivor who literally had unlimited dead hard. Never had a time where the player didn't use it. Some survivor players are true garbage like the one in the video. Toxic behavior is nothing close to someone using cheats to be the best of the best lmao. Skill is truly learning from your own mistakes and playing on a level playing field with others to see how your skills merit your experience as a player. Only time I used cheats when I was playing Turok N64 as a kid.
Honestly it's a bad idea to do any streak challenges that you take seriously in multiplayer games, you might lose to a subtle cheater and you wouldn't be able to tell and have no choice but to count it as a loss.
people prob dont care but it seems lag will extend buffs like SB and the boost u get from getting hit and when he caught her when she was healing she had to turn it of to not get dced (or in order to heal) so she no longer had the speed
I've tried cheats on some other game years ago, wallhacks and such... man, it's so boring and dull. It takes any fun and enjoyment out of a game, i will never understand these cheaters, even in easy games like minecraft or DBD... Just play or quit. People care so much about stats and shit in this game, it's unreal.
Cheaters are so pathetic. You should see the speed hackers in DC Universe Online. They just increase their' attack speed to absurd levels and kill everything in seconds, robbing everyone else of getting to play the game. I feel like these are the kinda people who have to cheat at games like Rugrats Search for Reptar on ps1. xD It's just sad.
I don't get how the ping can get that high that often without there being repercussions. Like, if it's that bad, just auto-kick the guy and replace him with a bot. Problem solved.
@Nico-ut8qs honestly I didn't know and I been playing video games for many years. Every time I saw lag switching, I just thought it was just a bad internet connection, and their just teloporting everywhere.
I had a speed hacking meg the other day. they didnt even get any points or any gens they just ran around the whole time avoiding me and hiding. talk about boring gameplay.
Rest assured you cannot hack on console. PC players like to think you can, but you simply cannot. Consoles are extremely regulated these days unlike PC.
Probably had a laptop or wireless device with a macro running to mess with the TC (traffic control) settings on their router that limits their bandwidth to jack up their ping to 1000ms. Just my guess after 20ish minutes of googling.
Could be cheating but there was a bug on last gen consoles where certain events will lag their game and if they happen to gain Haste in that moment it wouldn't go away like how it should
If you see 1,000 pings, is that hacker? Because it happened to me once I unsure if it cheater or lagging when I chasing her and she just teleport to vault I just unsure if she laggy, in main bulid like you chase her but she teleported back to vault opposite direction you chasing like 10 meters, is that cheater?
I wonder if xbox TCM has cheaters yet. I legit stopped playing dbd and went to tcm, its less frustrating when its a tram effort and not a 4 v 1 bully session
I never understood the point in cheating you’re playing the game to have fun getting caught and trying to get away is a part of the game trying to use your brain to outwit. Somebody is more fun then just being at a point where nobody can catch you.
I dont understand, does anyone know exactly how a dbd hack works on console? Like ok she lagswitched... Why would that allow her to keep running so fast? And heal so fast? Ygm? Also, how would anyone get away with that on current gen consoles? I really dont understand :/
imagine cheating this days lmao. theres so many games that you can approve yourself on absolute monster level but NO they just decide to be cheeto kiddo in game that they sck big dingilings. 🤣
Best guess I got is they're monkeying with the advanced settings on their router by forcing it to limit how fast the data packets are moved. As someone who likes to muck about in places I'm better off not messing with on my computer I can tell you it's not a good idea to be messing with things like that. You could end up bricking the hardware if you change the wrong value in the software.
@@chriswhittington5790 Gotcha, thank you for the info. I would never dare to fuck with my system like that I care about my stuff to much as I'm greatful for the things I have
Ive went against a hacking nancy yesterday on console i did not check her ping but she would insta wiggle out the second i pick up. (She did not have ds) It sucked i shouldve slugged her but like whats the point of playing dbd if youre too scared to play normally 😂 doesnt it get boring for them? its pathetic
This is why you should be able to report them even if they are using anonymous mode
You can report them and also give them video proof. I did it multiple times now and since you get confirmation since the update, I know it worked too.
@@lapisinfernalis9052 You can? When I interact with an anonymous player the only option I have is block.
@@daf4tman783 yes. On the right end of their character bar in the tally screen should be a symbol (thumbs up/down) that appears if you hover over it. This is the report button and it also works with anonymous mode or even people who DCed
@@lapisinfernalis9052Reporting someone for DCing is a very tight rope- There can be legitimate reasons why they DCed, such as their electricity going out, an emergancy just hapoened, or they have very shoddy net. (I'm in the last catergory there). So yeah- Don't jump right to 'Oh they DCed because of the killer got them', or 'The killer DCed because they are on the wrong map/ Didn't get any kills/ they are getting outplayed'. So yeah, report hackers, bit don't report people DCing.
@@TheFlamingTurkey I rarely (if ever) report people for DCing, but I thought it was worth a note because one might think the game does not know who the player was after a bot took over.
This is potentially the most satisfying game of the streak so far. We thought that Hag streak was gonna get murky and seeing you kill the cheater anyway was 😙👌
Tired of killer mains camping and tunneling so they deserve it.
@@haiz768bot
@@haiz768you were Cheryl, weren't you?
@@rainy7009 Maybe. 🤔
@@Capitano1stMcDonaldsHarbinger It’s true tho. All killers do is camp and tunnel but will be the first ones crying about MFT+Hope
Imagine cheating in a multiplayer video game... And still losing! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Was coming down just to say this
Lmao i play on switch and even i wouldnt cheat like this pathetic cheryl 😂
Couldn't be me
I like how you said multiplayer
I love cheating in sp xD
lmao that's different man haha@@Ryuzaki8DN
Had a match with a meg who was going around healing the air and then teleported to survivors when they got downed and jumping to 1000 ping. In the end game chat they were saying that they had bad internet baring in mind they waited 15 minutes for the match to end after they died, to tell my solo queue team.
Playing devil's advocate here, but like, if you're gonna cheat, there are 10000 more interesting things you could do than just speed hacks and lag. Why not go all out. Go sicko mode, ya know?
Maybe don't hack in a game to ruin other peoples fun because they are literally TRASH at the game xDDDDDD
Blatant cheaters are just fucking around/wanting to hold the game hostage. Subtle cheaters are the ones trying to use cheats to “win.” This person was the second one.
They could go real sicko mode and hang themselves . That would be the best play for humanity.
@@somecanadiangirl1not necessarily. Its just a matter of whether or not they feel like being annoying and hold the game hostage. I’ve had blatant cheaters and never had one hold it hostage (not saying it doesn’t happen but its rare if you’re just a random player)
Killers deserve to go against cheaters.
Maybe I take gaming too seriously, but I have Zero respect for cheaters. Like on a personal level. I remember being in a discord and this one dude just straight up admitted that he's a cheater. The disgust I felt was life changing lol
Idk why you think that's a weird take. Most people don't respect cheaters in games.
@@AIHumanEquality You'd think that but I tend to run into a lot of people that say "I mean it's just a video game"
@@demonEyenj That's called cope. People don't want to have to put in any effort so they cope instead of trying to stop cheating.
@@demonEyenjThese same people only use the "it's just a video game" excuse until the same shit happens to them. As soon as their games start being ruined by cheaters, they're the first ones to start bitching about it to anyone who'll listen.
Cheating itself is not always a bad thing. Cheating in order to win and to make people feel bad certainly is.
I surprisingly went against the same exact cheating Cheryl with the same build and charms.
I have the full game recorded.
You should upload it on yt
@@Logboy1 I have
Oh dude! So the Cheryl I was up against was cheating. I recently had a Cheryl on stream that was exceedingly.. fast, and I couldn't tell, since I was wraith, and I was cloaked, and I thought maybe sprint burst but- no, she was fast the entire game. Couldn't even catch up cloaked. Ended up having to kill everyone else and watch her teabag on the hatch. Unfortunate. Nice one, though, spooks! 💜
Tired of killer mains camping and tunneling so they deserve it.
@@haiz768 were you the Cheryl? 😳
@@the_sun_seeshe's just a bot ingore him
@@Capitano1stMcDonaldsHarbinger oh I assumed I'm just poking fun dw lol
@@Capitano1stMcDonaldsHarbingerNah, not a bot, based on their comment history they're just a salty crybaby surv main.
What a W spook!
Had a cheater once before, they were playing as the twins and they were somehow throwing hatches like the huntress which was weird and was no clipping to 😂
And yet there's still some who say there isn't a cheater problem in this game lol.
Should've spammed setting and cancelling traps infront of her as a way to t-bag her.
Like a 5 year old would do? lol
@@pizza3454he's using cheats
@@pizza3454Tbagging a cheater is different from tbagging just to be toxic.
@@t_gabiuel6058 Yeah, I know what ya'll mean, but that doesn't make it less childish.
actually, it does. you arent some beacon of maturity here pal@@pizza3454
“Like Scoob…she saw my trap man….” I don’t know why but hearing that as shaggy made me do a little giggle and I needed that today ❤ So thank you.
If you have 1 cheater, and 3 normal people helping that cheater, you got 4 cheaters.
Nah. Benefit of the doubt dude. They probably didn't know. I can only play dbd when I'm zooted so I guarantee you I wouldn't have noticed.
More like 1 cheater and 3 scumbags. But they probably didnt realized that.
Idk why but this one cracked me up more than your other cheating videos. The way u hit her and then. VROOMMMMMMM. Shes gone
I want to thank you for your fantastic videos, especially the ones where you cover toxic community members. They have been super enjoyable and have also made me realize how toxic I was. I saw them doing things I've been guilty of and now I have been given the resolve to change my ways and try to enjoy games more. So far it has been going well, so thanks, and i can't wait for your next video!
I can agree that she could’ve been cheating but not on console. Lots of cheaters like to make it look like they’re on console. Bet you anything she was on PC.
There’s no globe icon, so the same platform
@@kimikothetanuki314 did you read the comment
@@sovietspaceship that has nothing to do with that…
@@kimikothetanuki314 what? the comment literally said that cheaters can pretend to be on console, and you're saying the cheater is on console
You can’t cheat on console. 🤓
I have dealt with 1000 ping before and i can confirm, you get infinite sprint burst with it, definitely wasnt the worst dbd experience of my life
I learned the hard way flashlight cheaters are back too -_- it's frustrating
Whenever I see cheaters in dbd I always have the same thought “who hurt you little one to make you this broken”
I misread hag streak as meg streak and was so excited to see what that would entail if you’re playing killer
that was so satisfying to watch.She got wrecked. It's sad the win didn't count!
Man they really buffed overcome since I last played
This deadass might be the cheryl that I had on Thompson house I was like yo man I couldn't even catch her on bloodlust 3
Imagine how fragile is that failure's ego to the point to need use cheats
For a second with seeing the two Cheryl's and one on cross plat I thought maybe it wasn't console
After seeing the red bar next to the icon, then it kinda confirmed it with the high ping and only one with a red bar
Beautifully played
They used to play legit, but then one day they were being chased by Legion and tapped into the speed force.
Happened to Hens earlier, get the match ID and report it. They can find anonymous players.
This is the most boring hacker ever. I bet theyre not even having fun either. Kinda reminds me of a time when a Feng Min player tried that locker exploit on me, then a month later, i meet her again, and she ragequits as soon as i down her.
Trapper is really fun against speedhackers. They run right into my traps.
I have Cheaters almost every day on my killer sessions, and I’m not paranoid or anything, I am talking about cheaters I can confirm. This is getting wild
Honestly shaggy playing dbd goes hard, I feel like he would be scared playing survivor 😭
Aww Sheeit This is the first time I was able to make it to his stream and it was a highlight.
That Cheryl was embarrassing to watch
I do not condone cheating and would never do it. But if I were to cheat in Dead by Daylight without worry of being caught, I think my superpower in the game would be to always see the Killer's aura even if Blinded. Information is a good ability that allows ways to hide better and know you are safe.
I was about to comment the usual "you can't cheat on console", but yes, lag switching is also cheating.
Lag switching to extend the sprint burst until the lag switch is turned off... That's insane. And still died. So bad.
man this made for this buff is crazy 😂
She's a runner, she's a track star 🤣🤣🤣
Spooks clearly doesn't know the power of a good gaming chair! 🤣
i bet you the hacked thought he was being clever by pretending it was speed burst and the getting hit movement speed boost.
Check out Cheryl's (cheaters) player screen. No console icon, hence on PC. Spooknjukes just assumed because he and the other 3 survs were on console that she was too.
She is on console if spook is. The little globe means they're on a different system than you, most people just associate it with console players though because most content creators and players in general play on PC so when someone playing on a different system (console) shows up there's a globe by their name. If there's no globe they're playing the same thing as you
Could it be emulation?@@katieoh9557
Feel like she just had a really good gaming chair 😂
If you are running a streak and kill a cheater doing it then that should at least count as 2 wins haha well played good sir
Dude literally a week ago I faced the exact same person with the same skin on the same map as a survivor me & this Ash tried to do gens but the Cheryl would be useless just running around the map not helping. For sure gave that guy a report! . I assume that this is a bug with sprint burst + vigil judging from the cheaters build. Hoping that this will get fixed soon.
What’s the bug? It just goes on and on? 💀
To me it just looked like sprint burst IV the red version of the perk
she just has a really good gaming chair
Lastnight I had a unfortunate game of playing against a survivor who literally had unlimited dead hard. Never had a time where the player didn't use it. Some survivor players are true garbage like the one in the video. Toxic behavior is nothing close to someone using cheats to be the best of the best lmao. Skill is truly learning from your own mistakes and playing on a level playing field with others to see how your skills merit your experience as a player. Only time I used cheats when I was playing Turok N64 as a kid.
Honestly it's a bad idea to do any streak challenges that you take seriously in multiplayer games, you might lose to a subtle cheater and you wouldn't be able to tell and have no choice but to count it as a loss.
people prob dont care but it seems lag will extend buffs like SB and the boost u get from getting hit and when he caught her when she was healing she had to turn it of to not get dced (or in order to heal) so she no longer had the speed
I've tried cheats on some other game years ago, wallhacks and such... man, it's so boring and dull.
It takes any fun and enjoyment out of a game, i will never understand these cheaters, even in easy games like minecraft or DBD... Just play or quit.
People care so much about stats and shit in this game, it's unreal.
Love the vids keep up the good work!
Saving this video for all the people who say it's impossible to cheat on console
Cheaters are so pathetic. You should see the speed hackers in DC Universe Online. They just increase their' attack speed to absurd levels and kill everything in seconds, robbing everyone else of getting to play the game. I feel like these are the kinda people who have to cheat at games like Rugrats Search for Reptar on ps1. xD It's just sad.
11/10 cheater killer Spooks is at it again!
Worst part is he didn't report that cheater
I don't get how the ping can get that high that often without there being repercussions. Like, if it's that bad, just auto-kick the guy and replace him with a bot. Problem solved.
(For context in this joke I am a killer main) that Cheryl is how killers see MFT players
Fairly certain that anonymous mode can hide crossplay symbol
I can't believe a concole player can cheat. I didn't know someone could just switch their internet connection around to their advantage.
How do you do that? 💀
@Nico-ut8qs honestly I didn't know and I been playing video games for many years. Every time I saw lag switching, I just thought it was just a bad internet connection, and their just teloporting everywhere.
that match should count as 2
When people cheat. Is it ok to tunnel them 100% when you can, and camp the hooked body to ensure they are just gone?
I had a speed hacking meg the other day. they didnt even get any points or any gens they just ran around the whole time avoiding me and hiding. talk about boring gameplay.
I was under the impression you can't hack on console. It was the only comfort I had when I see a lobby of console players
Rest assured you cannot hack on console. PC players like to think you can, but you simply cannot. Consoles are extremely regulated these days unlike PC.
On xbox is more easy cheating
To stop this, DBD should put in place a ping cap. If you go over 200 ping for X seconds. Forced D/c.
one time when i was new i used lithe and got hit on the pallet... my friend flashlight savedd me and i had the lithe speed boost all games
Great way to get her Spooks!!!!
Ngl i didnt even know it was possible to cheat on console
lag switch
Love the shaggy voice, can you do the kermit the frog one next time please
Hiya spooks… quick one just to let you know there are devices you can buy for console cheats… I.e the Cronus max and others out there aswel 😢
Am I the only one that thought that it said "shag streak"? 😂
Probably had a laptop or wireless device with a macro running to mess with the TC (traffic control) settings on their router that limits their bandwidth to jack up their ping to 1000ms. Just my guess after 20ish minutes of googling.
Haven't played DBD for a while. That MFT looks crazy. 😂
Could be cheating but there was a bug on last gen consoles where certain events will lag their game and if they happen to gain Haste in that moment it wouldn't go away like how it should
If you see 1,000 pings, is that hacker? Because it happened to me once I unsure if it cheater or lagging when I chasing her and she just teleport to vault I just unsure if she laggy, in main bulid like you chase her but she teleported back to vault opposite direction you chasing like 10 meters, is that cheater?
Nah it was just lag . No lagswitching
I wonder if xbox TCM has cheaters yet. I legit stopped playing dbd and went to tcm, its less frustrating when its a tram effort and not a 4 v 1 bully session
why did you hit the princess heart cheryl on hook? she didn't do anything
Can't stop console cheaters and their modified controllers, Programs can't Detect through the controller output.
except this had nothing to do with a controller, this Cheryl was lagswitching
The teammates are kinda lame for going for the unhook tbh, I woulda tbagged the cheater after seeing her get hooked
I dont think they knew it honestly.
nah, it's just made for this getting shadow buffed, clearly legit!
You’re everything I wanted to be in a streamer
Wait, there's console cheaters in dbd? How people are able to do that?
He was forcing his internet to deteriorate, causing him to lag
@@kimikothetanuki314and when u lag while sprinting the haste status effect doesn’t end till u turn off the lagg
Bro I've went against someone who lag switched and I killed them
Honestly if I had that cheat I would be a god. I already loop to a high level so this would make it so I never got caught
what do you mean cheating? She just figured out the extra sprint burst 100000% length buff!
I never understood the point in cheating you’re playing the game to have fun getting caught and trying to get away is a part of the game trying to use your brain to outwit. Somebody is more fun then just being at a point where nobody can catch you.
I didn’t even know you could cheat on Xbox
How do you cheat on condole though? It’s almost next to impossible.
If you have hacks that make you unable to be caught, and still get caught, you don't deserve to play video games you are that garbage.
I dont understand, does anyone know exactly how a dbd hack works on console?
Like ok she lagswitched... Why would that allow her to keep running so fast? And heal so fast? Ygm?
Also, how would anyone get away with that on current gen consoles? I really dont understand :/
Cheating on a online video game is pathetic
Sabrina Spellman in DBD?
She cheated to get infinite overcome basically, played with the games code
its also funny that people claim that cheating cant happen on consoles this is proof that they can
imagine cheating this days lmao. theres so many games that you can approve yourself on absolute monster level but NO they just decide to be cheeto kiddo in game that they sck big dingilings. 🤣
How do you cheat on console?
How do you cheat on console? Like I'm genuinely curious, do you have to hook it up with a USB chip or something?
Best guess I got is they're monkeying with the advanced settings on their router by forcing it to limit how fast the data packets are moved. As someone who likes to muck about in places I'm better off not messing with on my computer I can tell you it's not a good idea to be messing with things like that. You could end up bricking the hardware if you change the wrong value in the software.
@@chriswhittington5790 Gotcha, thank you for the info. I would never dare to fuck with my system like that I care about my stuff to much as I'm greatful for the things I have
Cheryl wasn't on console, look at the actual player screens. No console icon.
@@hipflippedare you d*mb ? If there's icon it means cheryl was on the same platform as spooks .
@@hipflippedare you slow
Ive went against a hacking nancy yesterday on console i did not check her ping but she would insta wiggle out the second i pick up. (She did not have ds) It sucked i shouldve slugged her but like whats the point of playing dbd if youre too scared to play normally 😂 doesnt it get boring for them? its pathetic
Console? Thats more like a bug
what u hitting the cheryl (princess heart not the cheater) on hook for? she aint do nothing 💀
I'm new to DBD but this killer looks sick. His skills seem pretty awesome but is he hard to play?
Hag is definitely very fun to play. But she is amongst the weakest killers cause she’s essentially nothing without her traps.
@odd7327 I mean... most killers are nothing without there power lol
@@Bunger62Yeah, I dont quite understood that.
So you lag switch and immediately go faster? How does that make sense