Carburetors Are Back?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
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The carburetor died on the automobile vine more than 25 years ago, but walk into any motorcycle showroom and you’ll see a few stragglers still sucking fuel the old fashioned-way: through a set of good ol’ carbies. Electronic fuel injection is known for being more precise, it has more consistent air/fuel ratios, produces less emissions, runs smoother, and makes more consistent power across a wider rev range than a carburetor. So why are modern day motorcycles sticking with this ancient tech? Do they know something we don’t know? Is the carburetor back?
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As an engineer and mechanic, I love teaching my son who is now 5 what I enjoy! So thank you Jeremiah, and the rest of donut for making it fun for him! We enjoy it together!!
That's what it's all about. Sharing what you love with who you love. You're real solid
Your a mechanic and a engineer? Never met someone who was both
It's a bond that will last a lifetime ☺️
What type of engineering? Id like to get involved in the automotive side
@@westreaper9681my son and my passion. I love them both! Thank you for the kind words Sir!
for the people wondering it literally just says: "something in german" on their new banner and as a german I absolutely love it
uh huh that's just what you want us to believe
Thank you.
@@TheRealSykx no it realy says: something in German!
@@24NL I know how sneaky you Germans are, can't get anything past me
@@TheRealSykx i'm american and knows germans, it says the gremans are onto something!
One thing I personally love about carbs is their simplicity of tuning especially for small engines. There's something to be said for the fact that a carbureted engine can be run with nothing but a magneto powering the spark plug and no other electrical system.
a lot of them still use digital ignitions, would love to see more kickstart points powered bikes ngl tho
I love carbohydrates
Thats also their main problem. A carb never run correctly especialy if you live in a place where the conditions change a lot. You dont want to spend 15 minutes every morning under your hood to save a bit of fuel so you let them run rich😂
you can also reap the benefits of fuel injection with a carb-cheater
The carbs on the Chinese mopeds are pretty terrible I like how Honda has a EFI moped now
As an automation engineer and programmer, I can say that the carb is still a stout unit being a harmonious blend of physics and fluid dynamics.
The carb is still king in my book all day long. Uncle luke here may or may not of designed and programmed a universal adaptive control that trims carb afr in real time - more on that later.
Thunderhead289
The accuracy of the purely mechanical metering device is a thing of beauty.
I have a LM7 I am planning to blow and carb. Adaptive carb control is something I have actually wanted to see if was available.
Did you just put a signature on your own comment?
You did amazing work on that 302 maverick. I live in Fort dodge. I was was wondering if you would do an instructable or something on your iac controller. Keep up the amazing work.
The German Engineers Certainly DEMONSTRATED in REAL DIRE situations, that the Carb just could NOT Hold up in the British Spitfires with the HUGE/Efficient/POWERFUL MERLIN Engines that just DIED OFF Completely in many "High G's/Speed-Roll" Maneuvers and were TOTALLY OUTMANEUVERED and OUT RUNNED in the Air by the Messerschmitt Bf 109 with the the 1,455HP Daimler-Benz DB 605 Fuel Injected even MORE HUGE/Efficient/POWERFUL engine
😅🙃
and had no Speed/G/Maneuverability Limitations
MOST of the Racing Tech Advances of Today were Effectively and FACTUALLY Made in WARTIME in WW1 and WW2 for piston Engines, just Research it and you WILL SEE that Most new things are CPUs-electronics
😁✌
Besides, TOYOTA already Solved the Problem with it's Dynamic EFI System, injecting DIRECTLY and in the Manifold when needed and Modifided the SHAPE-Size of the Piston and Combustion chamber/Timming, _Effectively Solving_ the Mix/Vaporization issue
GreeTs guys and G0D✝Bless you ALL
I’d love to see Jeremiah host a motorcycle show
I don’t even own a bike and I would watch it!
@@goaliepro1996 same
Jeremiah suuuucks. He's the worst one at donut.
Jeremiah is what you get when a fan watches too much and try’s to hard to be funny then gets a job at donut
@@tunerimpala5658 I’ll be completely honest. I felt the exact same way when he first joined the team. I almost found it annoying. But he has definitely grown on me and I love watching him now👍🏻 keep it up Jeremiah
"Don't ask me how I know 1986 was 35 years ago."
I feel that on a spiritual level. Great video as always!
86 was a hell of a year. Actually the rest of the 80s were pretty kickass.
I'm an 86 model also. Seems like it was a good year
the 80s...the decade of blow and glitter...
It's 36 years not 35
Yeah when I was 35 I felt old too. When you get to 50 you stop worrying.
Jeremiah should be Donut's face for motorcycle contents. I'm a motorcycle enthusiast and it fills me with joy whenever motorcycles are mentioned in Donut.
Fortnine makes great videos, if you wanna see some similar themed moto vids.
4:53 That is what the accelerator pump on the carburettor is for. If you have to wait for more fuel with your carburettor, then maybe the accelerator pump needs adjustment or repair. Sometimes the accelerator pump diaphragm needs replacing.
Not all have those
@@GunFunZS True, there are constant velocity carburettors which achieve the correct mixture using a different method.
There is still a huge delay compared to efi! I think your comparing street use to applications Jeremiah was leaning against. Take a drag app for ex, your doing the 60 in 0.6, thats with reaction time. That would be impossible from a carb system.
@@aaronjones9866 I'm not a drag racer, so if you get better results with efi, I believe you, but there is no "huge" delay with a properly setup carburettor system. The video claimed "the carburettor... needed to wait for the pressure differential to build, before more fuel was added". That is what the accelerator pump does, it provides more fuel without waiting. Carbs were responsive enough for WRC drivers up until the early 1980s, with Walter Röhrl beating the Audi Quattros in the drivers championship with his Opel with 2WD and Weber carburettors in 1982. So no. I wasn't talking about street use. The main reason WRC cars went to fuel injection, is that everyone was also switching to turbochargers, except Lancia who used a supercharger in the 037.
I've probably personally replaced close to a hundred accelerator pump diaphragms over the years.
I watch these videos like “yeah, this will help me during my interview at Jiffy Lube”
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just be an idiot and youll get in
Hope I get the job my fren
Dawg I’m gonna tell you right now jiffy lube ain’t a great company to work for I would find a Bridgestone or a dealership personally
Good luck dawg. Doesn't take much to work their though. My cousin went from jiffy lube to Autozone for a raise in pay
I’m not that old and we used to call filling the tank with “Ethel”. Ethanol has a long history in America. Over 100 years ago, Henry Ford designed the first Model T to run on ethanol or gasoline - the original flex-fuel vehicle. He did this because gasoline was not commonly available everywhere in 1908, and farmers could produce ethanol very cheaply and use it to fuel their vehicles - essentially, you could run your Model T on moonshine. Ethanol also made a comeback as fuel during WWII when gasoline was strictly rationed.
Ethyl in this context refers to Ethyl Fluid or tetraethyl lead.
Also makes sense why alcohol was prohibited. "They" didn't want everybody making their own fuel at home. 'They" wanted us to be slaves to big oil
The Ethel you remember is the poisonous leaded gasoline of the past, the one that increased everyones blood lead content and increased world aggression
@@2OO_OK also E50-up aka E100
Petrol is "Benzine auf Deutsch"
3:44 wait, you can just add servos to the adjustment screw and with a simple microcontroller, some programming and some sensors you can adjust things on the fly.
Worth a mention would be the short lived Hitachi electronic metered feedback carburetor mostly used by Isuzu, Nissan, & Suzuki. It used a MAP, O2, and Coolant Temp sensor to regulate mixture, and also control choke operation. Some even had an in-line resistance heater coil to warm the mixture at sub freezing temps.
Did it work with a catalytic converter?
Yes, an interesting side note as fuel injection is still best, for cars.
Carburetors are best for things like my chainsaw, because it's really annoying when it breaks while I am chopping up annoying solicitors....
@@gregorymalchuk272 Yes.
"Etwas auf Deutsch" 😂 Thanks to B2B team for putting together a great carburetor episode.
Why did they put that on there 😂 "Something in German"
@@geoffrey6000 Its kinda like those people who put a bunch of japanese on their doors which jusr translates to a grocery list
@@inderet4118 or also RAUH WELT BEGRIFF
@@inderet4118 Well, as a german i really didn't get the joke at first, so thanks for explaining😂
@@inderet4118 I guess, it might be also because of the logo / font that the "HRSPRS" catch phrase is based on - H&R Springs. Which, if I remember correctly, is a German company. But that also made me wonder as a fellow German :D
Two stroke + carburetor = pure happiness
Great upload, Donut
Simplicity at it's finest
Indeed.
There are easier ways to inhale oil fumes
@@johnalogue9832 yeah like running an engine with failing piston rings, like a real man ;)
@@eriktruchinskas3747 "Piston rings? I thought those were like the plastic rings around beer cans, you're supposed to take them off after you buy the piston then stick them on a nearby seagull..."
The production level of you shows is fantastic. I can see the hours spent on set design, lighting, camera work, etc. Plus the post work is fabulous! After Effects and Premiere, etc. It certainly shows.
I drive old carbureted cars all the time and the one big thing I like better about them is the throttle response. Is is immediate! All the newer cars I have driven especially ones that do not have a throttle cable have such a lag in acceleration I find them actually somewhat less manuverable trying to merge in heavy traffic. I'll keep my 40-50 year old cars.
The drive-by-wire vehicles definitely do have input lag. There is an aftermarket gadget that is supposed to bypass it to make your throttle response immediate, but I have yet to try one.
Totaly agree. I have a skoda and actualy enough power to accelerate good in traffic but the input lag is soo bad. If my turbos arent spinning fadt enough already i loose like 1-2sec. I bougth a pedal box that made my car like 10x better the pedal response was almost instant but after 2 months driving my egr and dpf died 😂😂 2k on repairs 🤣 now i just accept it 🤷♂️
The input lag is intentional, I always figured it was anti granny stomps the pedal down...
Also a good e throttle stops you snapping the throttle open making the engine stumble
@@zzzires5045 yeah..i also removed the little delay in my clutch line so i can have full controll how fast i let it go. All these granny stuff in newers cars makes me sick. I want to be able to use my skills and drive my car dammn 😂😂 my pedal box actualy really helped me but the garage couldnt tell me wheter the problem came because of that or because age 🤷♂️ so im scared to put it back in even when i spent 400$ on it 🤦♂️😂😂 but i really miss the nice trottle response and all the mods that it gave me (sport, track, city, eco) 😭😂
I find the exact opposite.
I'm curious what car you have, as the handful of carb cars ive driven, especially after calibrating/cleaning the carb + intake all still have response lag.
EFI.... instant for me, especially if I give a decent throttle request.
12:30 As a german, i like this banner. A lot. The text is so deep. Thank you.
As a German, I agree
As agree, I'm german
LEL
As a non-German German speaker, finde ich es uebergeil!
Das ist ja Mal toll! Deutsche gucken mechanic Donut
the channel smarter every day has a great video about how a carburetor works, and uses a simple, clear plastic carb to demonstrate. highly recommend
Great video too.
never seen anyone adequately explain all the vacuum lies etc on the later ones
Heard of Warped Perception?
Great suggestion. Destin made at least two Carb videos recently. Fascinating and fun to learn.
Fortnine also has a great video on specifically why they can sometimes be better for motorcycles still too (mostly due to the fact that ECUs are tougher to tune for motorcycles, and not all motorcycles even have one). Not quite as in-depth as Smarter Every Day can be with the mechanics of it, but even more info for the motorcycle side of things!
My 12 old carbureted snowmachine got me and my buddy home safe from deep in the woods when my fancy brand new EFI sled had an ECM failure. Just can't beat their reliability and "simplicity"!
thank you. this is the best general carb video ive seen and comparing motorcycles to cars and why they differ in regulations
My automotive knowledge has only increased in my 3 years at a Donut lover. Wouldn’t change a single thing about it, thank you all for your hard work! Here’s to 3 more years
Big Donut fan here too. But, also I stumbled onto the channel Driving 4 Answers. I learned soooo much from that guy. He's a great teacher and I've been learning a ton.
As a donut fan but also having been a mechanic and car nerd for a while a few of their vids do contain some misinformation
Because they are perfect and awesome. Actually, a carburetor is one of the coolest inventions ever. For how simple it is, it is so complicated and fascinating.
But wasn't the downside of EFI that with cold starts the fuel would end up on the cylinder wall and wash away the oil causing excess wear? But with carbs, the fuel air mixture reaches all the way to the bottom during the intake stroke potentially ending up with even more fuel on the cylinder walls. What am I missing?
@@jonathanwieringa8808 Actually that was more of a problem with Carburetors too because they needed a choke. The choke caused extra fuel to be drawn in until the engine warmed up and the choke fully opened. On a cold engine the injector sprays more fuel. The carburetor sucks more fuel. Either way, the cylinders get washed. And oil gets diluted. That’s why in both cases more frequent oil changes are needed when an engine is driven mostly short distances in cold weather.
@@dmandman9 thank you kind sir
@@jonathanwieringa8808 Nah efi is better for that. Carbs cause more fuel washing. That is why efi cars have longer engine life’s. That was the biggest single engine life improvement in the last 100 years.
@@kennethobando5755 I was confused with direct fuel injection
thank you for these videos, they make learning ab engineering simple and fun
Honestly James and Jeremiah are my two favorite hosts on donut. Keep up the good work team
Funny what people prefer. I really like Jeremiah and pretty much everyone except James. If he is in a video, I won't watch. Drives me crazy.
Glad you guys are dipping into the motorcycle scene, conveniently for me it seems to be happening as my interests in bikes are peaking. Would love to see Jeremiah do a motorcycle specific show
The best thing donut has ever done was bringing Jeremiah in. Great video
Just for those curious, bikes like the dr400 and xr650l are completely unchanged from their original 1984 designs due to the grandfather law and how much they would have to change to meet modern emissions
The KLR was on that list too, but I believe they finally updated it to EFI
A good draw through carb system will make you smile I swear.
Simplicity, no ecu needed. And two stroke fuel injection is difficult to tune due to different port timing of each cylinder.
Nothing wrong with carburetors on small engines. But choose what you like that makes you happy.
Also, gotta say. You can make changes to most carburetors with a pilot jet circuit for low-end with the pilot screw adjustment found on most carbs. Loved the episode either way donut. Thanks for the upload.
They still have ECUs for the ignition timing
@@moto_rad which model? Most if not all carburetor engines uses cdi style ignition systems powered by the stator or by the 12v system. The timing is also quite stagnate compared to newer ignition systems that still use a cdi system. You can see one of these ignitions in my channel.
@@moto_rad CDI is a bit different then an ECU
When SHTF, all those electronics are burnt. I'm glad I've done some work on traditional carbs, it may prove to be indispensable.
@@BearBig70 definitely good to learn some old school carbs. Their simplicity is what makes them my go to route for tuning small engines.
To add to the part about carbs not liking ethanol, I would like to point out that small engines like on mowers and snowblowers are carburated. If you are using the 10% ethanol gas, I would suggest a switch to the more expensive one with no ethanol. It will keep that mower going stronger for longer. Same for your 2 strokes, mix with plain gas or buy premix.
That does not mean one should use the canned fuel. Chic-a-holic says it (brand with pink tint) is good for engine storage but does not run well. Some engines do not reach peak RPM others do not start. Swap out the fuel and it works.
@@danharold3087 the channel is, Chickanic.
I add Stabil to my fuel in small motors. Helps out.
@@miket.220 Never had a need for that myself. My gas gets drained from the mower then used in the snowblower lol.
This is because the ethanol binds with moisture from the air and combines in solution to make a yellowish sludge that literally clogs fuel lines and carb pinholes. I HATE ETHANOL AAAHHHH
We do love the history and evolution pieces y'all do.
Great video; always nice to talk carbs, though I'm a bit amazed you chose to do the filming in an enclosed space! Also 'Etwas auf Deutsch' on the banner absolutely killed me, so thanks for that.
I’m 35 now but when I was a child like 8 I think? My dad taught me how to tune a carburetor, said it was a skill I should know if I wanted to get into racing. One of the few things I’m really happy that we did together
Just in case it was a legitimate question, here is my take on vaporization, atomization, and emulsification: all of them tie in to the dispersion the (liquid) fuel into the air for an even mixture.
Vaporization and atomization are closer to each other, atomization is done by pressure and velocity while vaporization seems to focus more on heating a substance.
So a spray nozzle would atomize fuel, while applying heat would be vaporizing. You technically can disperse a large amount of liquid solely with one, but the most efficient way involves both processes.
Emulsification, on the side, describes how well a mixture has been blended. Since pump fuel is a mixture of components, you want to make sure those additives are being evenly dispersed and not coming out of the mixture being made. The term could be used for the blended fuel, but it can also apply for non-engineered substances, such as water (moisture).
I hope that explanation helps in one’s imagination. They do sound similar, but that’s because they depend on each other greatly to make a thorough mixture
I don't know why this isn't higher up. I searched comments for this, I hate searching comments.
Compress the fuel shortly before the very tight nozzle and watch friction heat it up. The heat also comes from the air. In bad weather you get ice. So better place the carb straight in front of the intake.
Atomization is a spray like from a garden hose, its still liquid in varying size droplets. Vaporization is like fog, its no longer in the liquid state, its a vapor. Emulsification is adding air into the circuit to start the atomization sooner.
Boiling points decide when a liquid turns to vapor. Everything has a boiling point, even rock and steel. Some are higher than others, some lower in temp. Lower the pressure on the liquid, you lower the boiling point temp. Raise the pressure and you raise the boiling point temp. You can boil water in a styrofoam cup at room temp, if you lower the air pressure around it. The higher in altitude you go, the lower the boiling points are. Evaporation of water starts to happen across the temperature range as long as its above freezing. Water is kinda cool since it doesn't always act like other liquids.
Gasoline is made up of various chemical compounds with boiling points between 80F and 450F. Its hard to get it to vaporize as a result. It takes time to vaporize it and needing 450F to do it means it will not get the chance until the combustion event, and then it is too late.
Why does it matter to an engine? Well its about surface area, more surface area will burn faster, more completely, and therefore cleaner. If you can vaporize the fuel you will use less fuel to make the same power, because more of it goes to actually pushing the piston rather than going to waste heat. Gasoline in a normal vehicle is around 18% to 20% efficient, in a lab under controlled conditions they can improve that somewhat, but real world consider it well below 20%. That means 80% of the energy goes to waste heat and doesn't power the vehicle.
Large droplets have less surface area in a given space than a vapor has. If you pour gasoline into a glass jar and light it on fight, you will see the flame is above the liquid, because it is burning the vapor coming off the liquid. The liquid doesn't burn, the vapor coming off it does. Dump it on the floor and you increase the surface area by a lot so the flame gets larger.
Vaporize it so it is a fog and you have no large droplets, its in a different state which vastly increases surface area.
Gasoline is relatively slow burning, especially race gas because it doesn't vaporize well. Even when you introduce it to the relative vacuum of the plenum/intake port, it doesn't want to vaporize well. On cold days it does it less effectively than on hot days, but with gasoline you have other things to consider.. like its propensity to ignite when it wants to due to heat and compression rather than when the spark is introduced. Dieseling, detonation, and spark knock.. its breaks stuff and its why diesel engines are built so heavy, because the combustion event happens when it wants to rather than when we tell it to. They also need high compression to get diesel to ignite, that also requires heavier construction.
Lots of people are trying to build hot vapor engines that run on gasoline right now. The problem is they have to heat the fuel to over 450F for it to fully vaporize, and the lighter stuff is going to boil into gas long before that. So you get bubbles... and 450F is well out of the range of these engines, except in the exhaust system. Do you want to run your fuel through the exhaust manifold first? That is a not a great idea, very high pressure fuel, more than 100psi to keep the lighter components from boiling running through a exhaust manifold to get enough heat. Can't run it back to the tank either, and your injectors have to be able to withstand that temp. It just got VERY expensive and complicated.
On the other side you have ethanol, which has a superior latent heat of vaporization, meaning it cools the intake charge as it vaporizes. The boiling point of ethanol at sea level is 173F, so you can get it to fully vaporize in the intake manifold as it hits the relative vacuum with only 200F fuel temp and 60psi to keep it from boiling. Well within the operating temp of our engines. You can run the engine hot, like 230F coolant temp, heat the fuel to 200F, and even heat the air coming in past the throttle blades, and ethanol will still cool the intake charge making it more dense for the combustion event.. and you will get better mileage than gasoline doing that as well.
Throw 20:1 compression in on top of the heating/vaporization and you increase mileage and power well above that of gasoline engines, and possibly above diesel engines as well... but in a lighter, easier to cool engine that makes plenty of power.
I am doing that with Pontiac engines with anywhere from 11.5:1 to 13:1 static compression with iron heads and cam timing that builds as much cylinder pressure as I can get. I've surpassed mileage and power over pump gas engines of the same size, and the cool thing is I can go from 7:1 all the way to 13:1 on a Pontiac 455 with just a head swap. So I can do it with the same car, engine, trans, rear, etc. Only the heads and fuel change.
20mpg and 550hp near 600ftlbs from a 7.5L engine running ethanol through an old Qjet carb in a 1970 GTO that weighs 4100lbs and doesn't have all the nice friction reducing things like modern sealed wheel bearings, low aspect ratio tires, lightweight drivetrain components, and reduced rotational mass. It ran mid 11s with a 2.93 gear behind it.
I am working on a couple vehicles with less weight and far better aero than my GTOs. Click my name on here if you want to see them and follow my fuel project..
@@SweatyFatGuy partial pressure. Air is only 21% oxygen molecules, which only have two atoms, which can bind two hydrogens from fuel. Even methane has 4 hydrogens and the carbon catches two oxygens. Equilibrium partial vapor pressure is high enough for most components. I don't know why after destillation high boiling point components still end up in the fuel. Each drop is cooled by evaporation of the lighter fractions and survive until the flame front arrives. The temperature then bakes it into soot (captures only the hydrogen while the fuel forms polymere). Graphite does not evaporate anymore.
You may want to look up how fog does scatter light and why that is wavelength dependent and car RADAR can pass it better than breaking lights than blue light.
Smarter every day has an amazingly in depth video on how a carburetor works, and includes a clip of a see through carb running
Very informative and interesting presentation! Thank you, I am looking forward to seeing more of your good work!😊
The valve T-shirt will be well appreciated. In some lovely neutral colours too♡
As a person that has 2000 feet in elevation change on my drive to work, I enjoy my fuel injection and would never want to deal with a carb.
And that's why airplanes have adjustable-mixture carbs you can control right from the cockpit.
I do too and drive a carbed rig. It's not bad if it's tuned right. And with fuel being expensive, I'm enjoying the 40mpg from an 80s car
If I recall correctly there are also some cars sold for really cold climates (yes I am looking at you Russians with their Ladas)
That also have manual carb adjustments
In an aircraft you have more consistent rpm and loads which makes manual mixture adjustments possible
@@erikscott5709if only motorbike and automobiles had those...
Things I didn’t know I needed: an air horn that attaches to a cordless impact, and Jeremiah saying “more power baby” like he’s a child.
Thanks for the knowledge on carbs I have a 1977 f150 that has one and gives me issues now and then but happy to learn more
I actually believed Jeremiah when he alluded to his age this time
Def didnt believe when he said he was 20 😆
Dudes pushing 30 if not past it
I actually like carbs. When I was looking for a motorcycle, I really wanted one with a carburetor. Now I own an '01 Honda Shadow and it is the most beautiful thing I have ever owned
I specifically looked for an old BMW with carbs because they're so easy to tune (and can even be tweaked when on the bike!)
Early fuel injection on motorcycles was very abrupt. Especially at little throttle.
Much better now.
It's a shame that not one new motorcycle in Europe uses carbs now.
Daniel, you must have bumped your head when you were young:) carburetors drove me nuts on cars, didn't mind them on motorcycles. I had a set of mercury gauges to keep them setup.
@@JoeBlack1108 I have a 1968 Fiat 600 with still the 28mm original carb on it. Not a single problem! Gonna swap it for a 32MM motorcycle carburettor for a lil performance gain :))
@@Toxic2T that sounds cool, I have a 1969 Pontiac Beaumont I am rebuilding. I am putting in my 3.4 dohc chev that I turbocharged with a Simple Digital System efi that I had in my 85 Fiero, even got a T-5 worldclass going behind it.
Screw and analog are back BABY !
I'm not really a car guy but that carb visual helped me understand why my first car would shut off all the time, thanks!
It was an '84 chevy celebrity and i knew "something something choke stuck at full open" and it was constantly blowing too much air so I always needed to give it a little gas to keep the engine running, but actually seeing that makes it make much more sense to me
I know how to adjust and tune a carburetor, but I personally don't want to go back to that hell.
To me I think what the manufacturer should do is stick with fuel injection, but do what a few of them used to do. If you had a 6 cylinder you would have six injectors, one per cylinder, but some manufacturers also included a 7th injector in the intake. I would want modern manufacturers to do exactly that.
Just tune that 7th injector to give only enough fuel to idle the engine. Yes you could do it with a carburetor, but if you do it fuel injection you can shut off that idle injector when moving and just rely on the other six injectors. That's seventh injector would allow the gasoline to clean the back of the valves.
Even more so I would actually like to injectors for cylinder. One direct injector and one multi-port injector. The reason I would want 2 it's because then you could use smaller injectors which would help atomize the fuel even better. You could also have a idle and main circuit for each cylinder. Have the multiport injector run more when idling and then phase into both injectors when you need power.
That just sounds like a carb with extra steps
Ford has already started using port+direct injection.....
German warplanes in WW2 were also fuel injected, which gave them a great advantage in air combat vs the carburated spitfire. The german BF109s engine didn't cut out when flying a loop.
That's a problem with a carburetor that relies on gravity to regulate the fuel going into the bowl (those which use a float). A carburetor using pressure regulators will not flood out the bowl in negative-g flight regimes. The Spitfire cut power in negative-g because British WWII fighters were barely a step above being put together in a whimsically mad inventor's country barn, not because the engine wasn't fuel-injected.
@@BogeyTheBear And the issue can be mostly circumvented by something as simple as an additional flow restriction plate in the fuel reservoir, which is what they actually did as an interim upgrade.
@@retiredbore378 There was no disparagement in that remark at all. It was quite literally a credit to her for acknowledging that sometimes the problem is as simple as it looks. Go put that nationalist insecurity back on the shelf.
I read something on Wikipedia that said the first engine with fuel injection was made in 1909, for aero engines.
Aircraft piston engines use carburetors with a feature called "economizer", which allows heeps of fuel into the cylinders to aid with cooling the interior cylinders and higher altitude flying.
Btw, varnish is welcome vs cleaning leftover lead from an aircraft engine lol.
Great video, keep it up!
Dude I loved this, I love cars and I love this channel but sometimes just someone putting things into perspective gives you a new view and new ideas. I really appreciate the content I'm going to be digging some of that valve merch once it's out. Yes, that's a hint you should do valve merch.
You can tell jer some great creative teachers.
I'll always love tinkering with carbs. They are what got me going fixing and modifying stuff, I think the first thing I really ever built was a 1987 Suzuki RM125 back when I was in middle school, came in a bunch of boxes all taken apart for $150. Once I got it together I loved playing with the carb on it changing out jets or adjustments when changing pipes or sprockets. Those older flat or round slide Mikunis I can still pretty much take apart with my eyes closed. In college I bought a brand new Suzuki DRZ400SM and hell they were and I'm pretty sure (10 years later) still are running Mikuni carbs. Sure I'd rather have fuel injection in a daily driver car but nothing beats the satisfaction of throwing a jet kit in a one lunger and having instant gratification when you get it all back together and running. Makes me happy to see such geezerly tech still getting attention.
I've also bought a kawasaki W175 which also runs on mikuni, I'm looking forward to buy a larger jet kit cause its quite difficult to start even when i live in a tropical country and its very sunny outside
I love your videos! Keep them coming!
My 1st new car was a 1988-1/2 Ford Escort and it had 1st gen fuel injection in the form of a throttle body fuel injector. It had a single fuel injector that sat where the carburetor normally would inside the circular air filter. That car got obscenely good fuel mileage even for a 1.9L Inline 4. Like 35 mpg highway and even as high as 40mpg highway if you were driving cross country on a summer day.
I love my carburetors for their simplicity and serviceability. Once I learned how to properly tune them and maintain them, I just fell in love with them. Hell, even took my 87 E-250 and converted it's 351W from TBI to carb.
Was it the '87s that had CFI? Cuz that was a royal pain. Ford never made a good throttle body injection system imo
I love my injectors because they've done 180000 miles and never needed servicing. Sure they'll be expensive as hell to replace if they ever fail but when they do it's just plug and play
They are a fucking nightmare in the winter.
@@a_single_white_female Wait, old gen Ford TBI or carbs? lol
@@DjDolHaus86 my 83 k35 has a carb never been opened in 40 years
I lol'd at the dirty valve 🤣🤣
Bent valve needed
@@tinytattoomike7943 You already have a bent valve.
The Pontiac firefly was sold until 1997 I think. Which with its 1.0L 3cyl carb motor would make it the newest carb vehicle produced.
I absolutely love the Something in German banner. Well done, that is so cool
I saw two small inaccuracies : carbon build on valves is currently remedied by both using catch cans for pcv air and applying dual direct and port injection from the manufacturers. And as someone says somewhere else carbs can have their mixture richness modulated, it's a basic operation by turning a knob on almost pre 1980 's piston engined aircrafts (but it would really too dangerous on a vehicle for the mass market since you can starve or damage the engine if you get it wrong or don' t know what you're doing)
Can be remedied is key. Not all OEM cars have catch cans and plenty of at least first gen direct injection did suffer from dirty valves due to not having port injection as well. Leading to problems. Not every one mods there cars.
Yeas you're right. It's still baffling to me that the engineers being the first gen direct injected cars let such a huge flaw pass
@@charlesgatine7045 I agree. Lol. I'm sure in a clean room with idea fuel direct injection would be ok. But in modern engines especially with forced induction, catch cans and port injection should be a standard.
Nothing beats an amazing two stroke with a beast carb on it imo
for an enjoyable evening, look up videos of people starting 2-stroke V8 outboards out of the water where the exhaust is just blasting straight out of the prop into open air... brutal sound.
@@iainbagnall4825 there’s also a 2t v8 drag car floating somewhere on yt
Yeah like on my Stihl 🤣
@@phrodendekia Stihl??
@@iainbagnall4825 initial sounds look good.
Great video. Love the Herspers banner thingy. I need one of them things fer my boat repair shop on Lake Travis in the heart of ATX. That’ll fit in nicely with the crazy bunch crew we have.
The varnish issue is no joke. I have a 1952 Ford 8n tractor I use for mowing and I always shut the fuel off and let it run so it burns all the fuel in the carb and the fuel lines. If I don't it will get coated in varnish and then run like ass.
Enjoying my Weber 38 dges on my '87 suzuki Samurai. Modified (flipped 180° and foat adjusted) for inclines and able to tune on the fly. Appreciate the simplicity and mechanical nature of it, but does struggle a bit offroad. Tuning is becoming a lost art though I've noticed.
Every time I see a new donut video my day becomes so much better-
It only took me 15 years. Truly understand. Carburetors and how to properly tube them. Once you learn it, they're magnificent.
I just love the sound a carb made
Motorcycle stuff is always nice to see
I had to replace all my fuel injectors on my truck about two weeks ago, cost me over 600 dollars thats enough reason for me to love carburetors
Not too long ago I watched an engineering explained video about direct injection and port injection. The way direct makes up for the short amount of time for atomization is the high pressure in which they are injected. The fuel is actually better atomized than from port injection because of the fine mist and high pressure. It still does have the other drawbacks you mentioned though!
Driving 4 answers? Driving 4 answers...
I love the Jules Gaia tracks playing in the background ❤
As a German I really appreciate the new HRSPRS Banner 😂
Carbs can provide variable fuel mix ratios tho, just look at light aircraft engines - red lever is for fuel mix( you get injection on modern light aircraft but it took way longer to become commonplace- aircraft engines need a lot more resilience and redundancy so I assume this goes as far as dual ECUs running on separate electrical systems, or some kind of failure redundant controller to keep the fuel injection running even if you lose all electrical power.)
Carbs dont need any electricity and will run flawlessly even in the middle of a thundercloud. Well, icing, but thats another issue...
Thus why classic continental 4 liter H block aircraft engine has...
Carbs with variable mix and heating
Pushrods
Two sparks per cylinder each fed by one of two separate
Magnetos
And
Alternator for non engine electrics
So you can suffer loss of a cylinder, loss of one complete ignition system, loss of electrical power, loss of a pushrod and it will still run and provide some propulsion.
Carbs can also react quicker to deliver pulses of fuel air mix in very high RPM use cases. I don't think there is a fuel injector yet that can keep up at 20k plus RPM.
Mechanical fuel injection was a thing in WW2 where the Germans were using mechanical unit injectors (I recall them being unit but I could be wrong) on airborne diesels or on their gasoline engines. It has advantages at high g loading (no sloshing in the bowls) and offers similar benifits as dual carbs (redundancy) while being more fuel efficient.
@@greglirot8288 yes, but also with the attendant issues that mechanical fuel injection is on no way able to respond to environmental factors as well as EFI, and aircraft carbs were able to be modified to defeat negative g fuel starvation as well as automating fuel mixture adjustment with air pressure. Moreover, allies got all that juicy high octane pure race gas from the US vs the Axis who had to put up with dogshit gas produced from coal via the fischer tropsch process, thus the need for methanol or nitrous for very high altitude.
Meanwhile, the USAAF and RAF are putting 110 or higher pure gas in their turbosupercharged giant radials or multi stage supercharger inline engines.
For anyone interested in that stuff... Go on youtube and look up every interview with Eric Winkle Brown.
EFI can also work with high rpms (just look at older F1s or newer super sport bikes, all are EFI). The issue is direct injection; that can't work reliably over 6,5k.
EFI can also react as quick, because ECUs are fast enough to calculate proper fuel delivery.
Fact of the matter is that carbs are just not very percise. Elevation, humidity or temparature changes all affect them. So unless you set them up again, they'll never work great under all conditions. Just good enough for you to get moving.
@@greglirot8288 Their gasoline injection systems were very much like the notorious 'P-pump' beloved by Cummins diesel tuners, basically built like a mini inline engine with a plunger pump for each cylinder. The pump was mounted below the engine, sort of between the cylinder banks (the Germans, in a moment of insanity, chose to make all their high output inline aircraft engines inverted V-12s) in as much as that was possible with the intake manifold and the barrel of an autocannon also occupying that space. Fuel from the pump went to the direct injectors via hardlines, once again very similar to diesel practice.
The mixture was controlled mechanically by an system of levers and cams connected to the throttle, pressure diaphragms and other sensors in the intake. If you ever want to make your head spin, look up a diagram of the 'kommandogerat' device used for this function in the Fw-190, it's possibly the world's first ECU, implemented entirely mechanically... which is about as complicated as it sounds, I can't imagine how anyone knew how to fix the thing if it went wrong.
my 1981 cb750 has 29mm CR Special carbs with big velocity stacks. she needs a rebuild, but that sound is just unforgettable
Loving the motorbike content bois!!
Imagine a HiLow with drift cars
Would like a motorcycle one also
"Jeremiah Burton I'm 22 years old" was I lied to I'm NOT mad just upset
Interesting , Thank You.
Your graphic at 2:42 is actually wrong, Bernoulli's principle means that the faster a fluid is flowing, the lower the pressure is. This means that in the carb's Venturi tunnel, the higher speed air is really lower pressure, this needs to happen for fuel to be sucked through the jets. The standing air in the bowl is higher pressure. Love the channel, because of you guys I got my first project car two days ago (95 Accord coupe 🙂 ), just figured I'd call this one out to help you guys keep on making great content that gets people into the world of cars.
2:40 Does anyone else think the low pressure and high pressure zone are labeled wrong? Shouldn't they be the oposite... being the low pressure zone where the fluid speeds up and the higher pressure zone at the reservoir
Agree, low pressure caused by the vacuum of the intake stroke.
@@dylanjones678 Things flow from high pressure to low pressure. By your idea, the air would be getting inside the fuel chamber. When the air speeds up through that tunnel, it creates a low pressure zone. And there isn't much pressure change on the bottom side, it just becomes high pressure comparatively to the top side which is now low pressure.
Yep, thought it was labelled wrong too. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect . They explain this correctly in another video here though, ruclips.net/video/1ohL6KgasjA/видео.html
@@dylanjones678 Sorry, buddy, but you're still wrong. You actually know how it works but I think you mixed up low pressure and high pressure. Let me explain it to you with airplane wing, you're right about the air moving over the wing, but when a fluid moves really fast, a low pressure zone is created according to the Bernoulli's principle(which the venturi tunnel is based on). And stuff moves from high pressure zone to low pressure zone. The airplane wing is an airfoil, which is the reason why the air moves over the wing and creates a low pressure zone, which then causes the air from high pressure zone to push on the underside of the wing trying to get to the low pressure zone, causing lift.
Source: I'm an Engineer, and have worked on many carburettors. If that's not enough for you, maybe try google next time, you'll be surprised to know that it can give you answers pretty quickly.
@@naseeb46 actually yes their graph is off It should be high pressure on the left side low pressure on the right side. I just now realized that the float bowl is exposed to the high and the low side. Their graph was not descriptive enough, that explains what you're saying perfectly. And now it all makes sense.
The Mustang was actually fuel injected in 1985 on the GTs with automatic transmissions. Dropping knowledge on your b’hind.
I'll remember this random information for ever
@@iamclickb4it
It was throttle body injection too🤮
@@aaronburratwood.6957 pretty much the worst kind of injection. Barely better than carbs.
Sure was, a 2 barrel throttle body injection unit called CFI. Stood for Central fuel injection. Ford's alternative to GMs TBI. I had one on my 1985 thunderbird!
@@hojnikb I think it's worse than a carb performance wise. It's reliable though, I can attest to that.
I have a Nissan Pao, which is basically a K10 Micra. It has a carburetor that can be tuned, on the fly, by the ECU as you drive. I think it's the only engine ever sold to use such a carburetor. It's kinda neat and I don't have to worry with one of the biggest headaches of carb ownership: tuning the thing.
I took the throttle body off an 89 Nissan Pathfinder vg30, put on a small 4 barrel from a Furd 302 and welded the bottom half of the distributor to the top half of a 2.8l hei from an S10. That was in 1994. I still have it, it still runs like a Swiss watch and I gained 32 hrsprss and 4mpg average over stock. Plus now an emp won't shut me down. Long live the carb!!
Carbs really are amazing pieces of mechanical engineering, like a watch mechanism. A fuel injector is just not as impressive to look at, IMHO.
also...alot harder to "Rebuild" an injector... where as a carb...well...shit we once got a truck 48 miles back to town using 2 jerry cans after the fuel pump died, just moved fuel to the cans and used gravity feed to the carb, no way we would have gotten back in an injected rig without parts... also why my friends crawling rigs are all "old tech".. even if modern versions i have seen and tested examples of are far more modern and the electronics can allow for alot better results BUT from the 2 we tested, you could hand tune them to run without the electronics engaged for emergency fallback.
when i was in highschool a friends father bought a kit to rebuild a holly carb that he got free but that was over 500usd when new, he sucked at rebuilding carbs and had been putting it off... i was board waiting for the computer we were fixing to install windows, the carb and parts were sitting there... i rebuilt it... mostly as i talked to his dad.. when i was done, he asked me who taught me to do that... "taught me???" its mechanical... its honestly not that hard to rebuild most carbs... and in this case, the unit was gummed up after the fellows ex dumped some sort of varnish into his gas tank... he got the fuel system cleaned and just swapped the carb for the stock one the car came with till he could have the place install a better one... gave my buddies father the dirty one... later i went to his shelf of solvents and put the parts that were varnished up into a glass jar and put in a mix of solvents i knew was safe and would 100% break down the varnish given a bit of time..put the jar on his stereo speaker....ghetto ultrasonic cleaner.. LOL.. it worked great honestly... the parts ended up getting used years later to re-re-build it after his brother put corn race fuel into the car that he was told it was never to be used in... (they use the stuff for specific cars when racing, the carbs jets were...visibly varnished...
a place i use to work has been working with other 3m companies to come up with a coating to prevent such issues for years, they have some promising projects going on im told... including a ceramic coating they have been testing with fuel injection, that apparently is the most promising because it could be made into a fuel additive that helps clean any varnish of and prevent more from sticking... they im told anyway, are in the phase of long term testing with a stack of engines and engine types to including 2 of my buddies RX7's hes not worried about having to rebuild even if that becomes needed, he doubts it will be... apparently from the testing they been doing it seems to reduce apex seal wear as well... (im told they are also testing a 2stroke oil additive thats what hes actually using with his fuel oiler setup...his rx7's are all modified to not pull oil from the oil pan... as that oils designed not to burn and leaves a mess inside the engine over time...
hoping it turns out to be a good all around series of projects they are working on...
Jeremiah, some carbs have accelerator pumps, so you don't have to wait for the Venturi and Bernoulli effect for throttle response.
I would say most carbs have accelerator pumps even
@@davidmiller571yeah anything other than a low performance 1 cylinder or something like a pump engine
They should use a regular old fashioned lean tuned carburetor, with a 12v low pressure fuel injector (port injection) to compensate, and to use on a cold engine.
Efi can be direct fuel injection, which can increase compression ratio vs a carb.
At my job we have a bunch of small engines and we use the standard 10% ethanol fuel in California for everything. If our operators don't run the small engines at least once or twice a month the carbs get gummed up and we have to either disassemble and clean, or completely replace the carb.
We started buying ethanol-free fuel for our boats and stand-by generators and we haven't had a problem with gummed up carbs ever since.
I love the animations you guys bring to the show - but Dirty Valve and Slappy Valve is a stretch
Valves! Is there a video on the ICE valves, everything from normal to exotic materials used in them? Whatever happened to the company that had round valves that didn’t require springs(late 90s -2000)? Great content and the presentation is always amazing!
My 07 Triumph had a carb, my 1980 Bronco has a carb, and I have a back up carb, backup fuel pump, backup distributor guts, redundancy is good
Donut needs to creating a marketing company. Yalls commercials are better then 99% of companies commercials. I honestly dont know how any of those people still have jobs.
Fun fact: Carbs can’t run if the engine is upside down while EFI will continue to run even if the engine is upside down.
Disappointed to know I won't be able to drive on the ceiling.
Miss Beatrice ‘Tilly’ Shilling fixed that during WW2
This! Very important to remember when building a car or a MC...
With slightly less sarcasm: That's just one problem with inverting a running engine. There's also lubrication and possibly cooling problems if it's water cooled.
The carburetor conking out when inverted was actually a problem with early Supermarine Spitfire and Hurricane. A lot of research was done and Rolls-Royce, the manufacturer of the Merlin engine, constructed a new carburetor to solve this, unfortunately it failed in testing. In the end it was solved by Beatrice Shilling, also known as Tilly, who made a flow restrictor that allowed for just enough pass through to support maximum power. She refined it to a flat washer that could be installed in the existing carburetors without any other modification necessary. Two versions were available to match the flowrates of the standard and supercharged version of the Merlin.
In addition to making sure the carb can work inverted you also have to make sure the fuel tank can deliver the dino juice when inverted...
This is certainly an issue for aircraft, but not so much with cars on the ground. There is a way to circumvent this, via a sort of loop in the tube.
Some carbs can. I've been upside down, engine still running, with a modified harley davidson cv carb I put on my offroader
I remember when Jeremiah first joined and people were giving him a hard time. I knew this mans would shine 🙏🏾🙏🏾
Give me a hard kok
I would liked them to talked about the new "SNIPER" Systems that are out now. An electrical carb sounds the way to go on most applications.
In a carburetor, emulsification happens when the air mixes with the fuel inside the main jet throught the tiny holes on it. The air is coming from the tiny hole in front of the carburetor. Atomization on the other hand happens when the mist of air and fuel that is sprayed from the main jet by lifting the needle is hit by the air that is being sucked through the carburetor.
Donut Media. The Best car shows ever. Big ups 💎
As a mechanic, carburetors were always easier to tune than efi systems
The issue is, so many people did not tune carbs on a regular basis, you'd see cars driving around with a carb that had not been tuned in a decade or 2, but would still "run".
just need a screwdriver and some elbow grease!
In all honesty I never "tuned" the Carter two barrel on my 78 E-150. I do lubricate the accelerator pump with Tri-flo. And have about 520k miles on the van, but the shop that rebuilt the 351W set the carb as they should have after a rebuild and warmer cam...
One mistake that most mechanics often make is messing with the cab when the problem is with the Bloody Automatic Transmission. But my E-150 has a 4 speed manual trans as all my cars have been manual transmission cars and trucks. Why??? Because as a former Wrench, I hate cars as they make you bleed. I also hate annoying customers as well... @@mikem9536
Even though the top flight of NASCAR; the Cup Series, moved on to Fuel Injection during the Car of Tomorrow era, carburetion is still the fuel delivery method of choice in some of the lower tiers, including the Whelen Euro Series, not to mention other niche championships across the world such as the National Hot Rods championships in the UK (no relation to the USA's NHRA).
Jeremiah my man,
You are Great to watch! You always have great content. If you did a valve shirt I'll be getting me one of those puppies! your episodes always make me laugh at some time! Thank you.
Good episode just barely missed being great. This would have been a perfect opportunity to talk about dual fuel injection systems like Toyota's D4S (1 x port and 1 x direct injector per cylinder) system designed to maximize the benefits of fuel injection.
not really on topic, when the whole video is about carbs. EFI+GDI is another video in itself of content.
@@hojnikb GDI is a type of EFI since EFI means "electronic fuel injection".....which direct injection is.... It would actually be PFI+GDI.
I'm looking for four injectors per cylinder 87, 91, N02 and H20. Controlling this kind of thing will be a nightmare at best
What I really have on my mind, can't figure it out and really REALLY would like to see from you guys is a video about BLOWN CARBURETORS !
I find the principle of turbocharged NON fuel injected systems rather fascinating.
Thank you.
Boosted setups need boost referenced carburators to work properly. Otherwise you don't have a vaacum to draw in gasoline from the float bowl.
@@hojnikb and yet another reason I'm dead curious for these guys to make a detailed video about.
@@hojnikb Supercharged systems can use a 'draw through' design where the carb is upstream of the blower, in which case no boost reference is needed. Not necessarily the best setup for all applications however.
Got a 2020 suzuki dr 650. Love carb. I treat fuel for storage and its all good. Gotta keep in mind to empty the carb if you dont drive for a long time.
I got a Smartcarb for my RM85 2 stroke. It is thr best carburetor I have ever seen. It has an internal shutoff for if the bike tilts over, so it just has 1 hose coming out the bottom for a bowl drain. It has a 'fuel screw' to adjust fueling and a choke. That's literally it. It's awesome