Why do SO MANY PEOPLE in narcissistic relationships THINK THEY ARE THE NARCISSIST?
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- Опубликовано: 4 мар 2024
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
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When you're with a narcissist and you express any personal need they generally tell you you're demanding, selfish, entitled and uncaring. You hear that enough and you start believing it.
Or they'll try to shame you by saying stuff like you wear your heart on your sleeve like caring about people and expressing that is wrong
Exactly what my ex did. Anytime I wanted to spend time with him I was being selfish and needy. Never realized till I got away from him what a horrible monster he was.
Yes
Or you’re just dismissed
The narcissist says when you get sick, "Don't be such a baby."
When the narcissist gets sick it is the end of their world.
They carry on with their monologues as if we have not spoken. They love their own voice. We're not like that.
One time towards the end of the relationship, he started on one of he's monologues and I quietly started the timer on my phone. 28 minutes before I could get a single word in. He went on after that for another 30+ minutes while I was completely silent 🙄. I made a game of it though. If he made it over 30 minutes I would get myself a treat. I got a new pair of shoes after that diatribe. And I left 2 weeks later.
Omg! Mine loved to listen to the sound of his voice, too! I have never heard anyone else mention this! I thought it was just him! His talks would be so long! Probably at least an hour or more! I never could keep track of time during these “talks”. He would go on, and on and on! Usually, it was about what actor was in a movie. And, he’d convince me I knew who the actor was. -He loved movies and tv more than anything! I never could remember the actors name, I still have trouble with remembering actors names. Not because they are not great or anything, I just don’t watch tv or movies very often. -I just can’t handle it. Like drama type shows.
Anyway, it was just hours of me listening to him. I had to agree with everything he said. And, I could never really say anything. Not even to change the subject. The problem was, he really was very smart! He got his intelligence from his dad. His dad was really smart to. He took on actual IQ test, and it was almost top level. (I have a hard time spelling, because I have a hearing loss. Autocorrect, can’t always figure out what I am trying to spell.)
Anyway, it’s nice to know I am not crazy. And, it wasn’t just him.
Thank you.
Amazing! Same experience for the past 10 years. He even monologues alone.
Ive always felt he used his endless word excretion like a shield so no one can ask anything that may require vulnerability or honesty.
Truth is their kryptonite. If you are honest with them about their behavior, it is likely that you will be called abusive.
Good way to put it! 😄
my boss would come up to my desk to ask me a question, which then after her monolouge and not allowing me even 2 seconds of space in the convo to say a single word, she ends up answering the question for me and walks away 🙄 i didn't say a single word!!?
Don’t forget, narcissists would never ask them self’s if they are a narcissist. They think that they are perfect
1000000%
I hear this all the time, but I also hear this is false from some professionals. Not sure what to believe on this.
That is sooooo true.
@@aseasonalname1421 Self aware narcissists do exist... But they are 0.0001% of narcissists... There's basically 1 self aware narcissist for every 1000 narcissists. Reason why they are called "unicorns" ALSO... They are usually on the lower spectrum of narcissism... Self aware narcissists are not as narcissistic as the average narcissist. The average narcissist is already someone who would never ask themselves if they are a narcissist...
They hate themselves. They don’t believe they are perfect. That is part of the facade they show the outside world.
It’s heartbreaking how narcissists can manipulate their partners into doubting themselves like a twisted mind game making the victim feels at fault for everything. The narcissist also can manipulate situations to where they shift the blame onto the victim making it seem as if the victim is the aggressor, hence innocent people can suffer greatly from false accusations and have their lives turned upside down.
Tell me about it. Been there.
That they do and they have your mind so twisted up it's like you're playing the twister game every day to survive.
@@SylPaperworks The intimidation is so real... I was naive to think you can remain friends with them for the children's sake when it was a long marriage.... it took a psychologist for me to see the light and get untwisted from all the manipulation.
If it’s raining out somehow we had something to do with it.
the shizz they can make up too is jaw dropping and somehow, people believe them.
Another one is feeling angry and disregulated because you are being treated badly and that can make a person feel like they are the narcissist as well.
I get enraged when they pulled that shit
Single over 15 years now.
So so good.
Oh. Don't you dare be angry or frustrated. They can be, but don't you dare!!
For sure, me too.
The fear I have is that with longtime, Narcissistic abuse, you change into a self that reflects your abuser.
However, as time goes by and you're no longer with that Narcissists, those behaviors start to get les & less. I was afraid of becoming my narcissistic mother. My behaviors are coming back what is normal for me.
I fear this too.
The crazy thing is that they act the way they do because of a defense mechanism imbedded when they were younger. Dealin with them for sooo long you tend to develope a similar defense.
(Youd have to or youd just leave)
Only difference is....I or we can change it. Its not imbedded in us.
I've been wondering if this is happening to me.
@@mday3821thank you. It's comforting hearing that it's possible to get back to normal again. I'm sorry you've experienced such a hurtful relationship. It's heartbreaking and infuriating. Especially with a parent. 💔
I'm autistic, and I've often worried if I'm the narcissist, because I feel I'm being selfish, so I do still need lots of reassurance that I'm not behaving badly. Ultimately, I care deeply about people, am constantly thinking of how other people are, and how I'm affecting them, so that's not narcissism.
Phew! Thank god I got that off my chest!😅
That's has to be draining.
You know what's funny? Autist here as well.
To say that an autistic person is selfish is, well, neuro-logically sound. There are parallels between ASPD and ASD, most of them being located in the prefrontal cortex, our decision making center. That's right. Psychology and defects in the brain are connected. Everything is pathological. Who'da thunk. Anyway.
We lack affective empathy sometimes, just like psychopaths. Some have an abundance of it, but tbh, I'm pretty sure that's some autists overcompensating in cognitive empathy for their lack in affective. Low functioning autists have lower cognitive empathy. (Cognitive empathy is theory of mind, mathing out how they feel in your head instead of being inspired to feel it naturally.)
My son is autistic and he is actually exhibits empathy but it's a learned skill, not something that came naturally to him. He doesn't "feel" for people the same way other people do, but he can rationally understand and adjust his behavior to compensate for it, but it takes work. The difference is that narcissists naturally have the emotional intelligence that autistic people struggle with, and they use it to abuse and manipulate others. Your actions are what matters and if you treat people like you would want to be treated, you will never have to worry about being a narcissist.
So when you say you might be selfish, consider this: it would be weird if you weren't selfish.
Some autists actually have like a blend of disorders, this is normal too. Neurodivergents flock together. BPDs and NPDs attract each other, ASPDs target ASDs, BPDs, and NPDs alike. A lot of those disorders carry Schizo affective traits.
All of them can be witnessed exhibiting narcissistic traits, too.
YOU'RE NOT CRAZY YOU WERE ABUSED
People often see the victim of narcissistic abuse as "crazy" or dramatic.
They seem unstable, imbalanced, and full of fear and doubt. They are angry, depressed, and sometimes lash out. They are experiencing overwhelming emotions, and probably wearing them on their sleeve, for all to see.
While the narcissist shows up cool, calm, and collected. Cruel and heartless as they are, they remain stable, because they were never attached to their victim.
So using, abusing, and then casting them aside, didn't mean anything. because they don't care.
COGNITIVE DISSONANCE
THIS IS WHY PEOPLE GET UPSET WHEN THEIR BELIEFS ARE CHALLENGED
The Free Thought
A MENTAL CONFLICT OCCURS WHEN BELIEFS ARE CONTRADICTED BY NEW INFORMATION. THIS CONFLICT ACTIVATES AREAS OF THE BRAIN INVOLVED IN PERSONAL IDENTITY AND EMOTIONAL RESPONSE TO THREATS. THE BRAIN'S ALARMS GO OFF WHEN A PERSON FEELS THREATENED ON A DEEPLY PERSONAL AND EMOTIONAL LEVEL CAUSING THEM TO SHUT DOWN AND DISREGARD ANY RATIONAL EVIDENCE THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT THEY PREVIOUSLY REGARDED AS 'TRUTH'
Because usually a person in a relationship with a narcissist is empathic, caring, and introspective. With the gaslighting and the narc throwing accusations at them that they are the narc themselves, the caring person thinks "OMG is it me!?" and that thought devastates them that they would be like a narc and not see it in themselves.
Growing up my need for love and validation was seen as being needy. I was taught that love was not given, it was earned. I learned not to trust myself and I went on believing that needing anything from anyone was a crime against humanity since I should only ease burdens and not cause them. I want to be a complete person but I ended up looking for love in the wrong places because the superpower I inherited as a kid was trying to find love where it did not exist.
I was called high maintenance when I was getting the bare minimum.
Totally. And making remarks on things that bothered and triggered my in the most civil possible manner, with much care and empathy (like: this is not a critique; please note that I love you; etc.) and being replied with: "Nothing I do is enough, you are always complaining!"
@@bruschienmartiziens ohhhh I can relate to that!! “I walk on eggshells around you, nothing is ever enough.” Are you kidding me?! I fly across the country to be with you and the minute I arrive I’m told it’s a bad time and I should get an Airbnb. What?!! Mind bending games. It’s over but, the residual effects linger.
Yup, that's one of their favorite phrases!
I dearly hold onto if you’re asking if you’re a narcissist, you’re probably not. I think I’ve become so fed up with his behavior that being “selfish“ and “entitled“ is actually something I should have been doing a long time ago. Maybe I wouldn’t have gotten here. He absolutely hates when I stand up for myself and accuses me of all kinds of atrocities when I have my voice. That’s not normal y’all
As it turns out, my ex narcissist told his new supply that he left me, (which he really hadn’t!!) because my expectations for our relationship were too high. Well, I guess if setting clear boundaries with him that I was not going to tolerate anymore lying, cheating or any form of abuse from him, were too high of expectations for him, then it makes my reasons for going absolutely NO CONTACT with him, the sanest decision I have ever made!!
Straight up goodbye forever SC!!
I became a narcissist towards THAT narcissistic person only. All those traits. Almost diabolical! This is an excellent topic, Dr. Ramani, well framed. Thank you!!
Two years ago today I walked away from everything I let him have it all . Healing is a wonderful journey yet it is also hard healing from this narcissistic abuse by a person whom love bombed me into believing in him. I still kick myself for being naive at the time as well I know I am healing❤
Fantastic, what a huge step in the right direction
Your future can only get Better now, a day at a time.
Bless you on your new empowering journey
The worst one is when your desire intimacy from your spouse and they use it against you as a weapon. Then claim you’re too needy or your expectations are too high. Etc etc 🤮
That thing about being yourself and exploring what you are interested they try to shut it down it’s immoral it’s a shame that weak willed people will not speak I have.
Let me be the first to tell you from painful experience, LEAVE. That won't change, it will morph and get worse. There will come a point to where she might "change" and start having more sex and trying to satisfy you. That will last about a month or two and the reason they do it, is to give you what you always wanted, and then take it away. Let me tell you, that is super painful. These people are emotionally absent and horrible. Don't make excuses for her, just leave. Find someone that wants to be with you too.
My ex rarely if ever attacked me or criticized me the way Dr. R. so often describes. He simply refused to budge. He’d say black. I might say white; or I might just say yeah no I don’t really want black. And he would just repeat black. And I might say, well, but sweetheart, here’s the problem with black. And he might just repeat black. Or he might just stare at me without saying anything. And it would go on like this until I finally said to myself, well, either I agree to black, or I leave. And I don’t want to leave. So I say, okay, sweetheart, black. Over and over and over again. For 20 years! Did anybody else here have that experience?
I had to agree with what my husband said to me. There was no other choice. I couldn’t defend myself.
I am so sorry 🌸 internet hugs.
yup n when you disagree they blame you for being controlling or not loving them- this is a strange quiet variety of narcissists i think that dont do the typical yelling or criticizing but can be very uncooperative n non-communicative (no real emotive explanative communication). this is worse as you cant check the typical narcissist boxes but it drives you to despair n hopelessness
Something I wish Doctor Ramani can talk about someday, is when the narcissist has an illness or is physically incapacitated.
This makes the matter even worse and no empathy is given to the caregiver.
Was there for five yrs and the more the narcissist losses control the angry they get. It is literally hell on earth. Take care of yourself...even if it's little things.❤
There now with hubby that is overcoming prostate cancer..... giving him tons of support and encouragement but only get hostility, contempt , and all kinds of meanness from him...... Lord help us..... therapy is helping me.... Dr Ramani is great on this subject
This 😞🥹🥲
I am care giver for my step son who is 16. He is a narcissist. Manipulates me using his handicap and pain.
I am trying to get out of this. VERY difficult.
I always have to remind myself that the reason I think I could be a narcissist already disqualifies me for being one 😄
#metoo , but sometimes I'm still not convinced .
The same here, in general I tend to pick up quickly any blaim and believe it my fault.
Exactly spot on! Everything I've experienced felt and heard! Childhood learned behavior patterns... told to shut up and do what I'm told... parents narcissistic from the war years... generational pstd...
Different generations handle things differently... they see things differently
"if we wanted to hear comments from the peanut gallery, we'd ask"
@hotsweetness99 very narcissistic answer thank you for revealing yourself to others...
So true, It feels unreal but its as if you loose a sense of self being around a Narcissistic environment. Because as soon as you even try to confront them about hurtful things they said or did. They immediately twist the truth by saying we did what we confronted them on. The most baffling is their ability to martyr themselves as the injured victim.
It's one of the first things I told my son when he started to fear he could be a narcissist himself: just the fact you're wondering if you're one makes clear that you're NOT one
Inverted Narcissism is how some victims of narcs respond to the abuse. It's when you think you deserve less than anyone else, and it's okay to absorb the abuse because you're strong enough to handle it. You feel, even though you know the narc treats you badly, that you're a good person because you rise above it and take it without complaint. Then you pat yourself on the back for it, proud of your power to reduce yourself and make room for their self inflation until you're just a husk.
Seeing myself as needing to heal from Inverted Narcissim is what got me away from them to a place of radical acceptance and peace.
I've felt like a narcissist quite a few times in my life...usually when I put my needs first, and then it makes me feel unbelievably selfish. Even if it's something very important to me that I need to prioritize and focus on, I either make myself feel guilty, or at times get guilt tripped into feeling that I'm being selfish or doing something wrong. That I should somehow create time to take care of someone else's needs when I barely have the time or mental energy to take care of my own needs and responsibilities. It's just mentally exhausting.
My therapist always assures me that I am not the narcissist but this was very helpful in understanding why i am made to feel this way by the narcissist ❤ thank you!
Thank you Dr Ramani. I burst into tears as soon as I saw the title. I really needed to hear this.
After a long time stuck in freeze response due to trauma, i started working of myself a little. After several weeks of self help, nutrition and exercise etc I started feeling quite postive again. Getting out of bed and even singing occassionally. Then, out of the blue 3 men who had previously been in my life, none of which were romantic, started texting, calling, turning up at my house, invited me out, declaring feelings for me, manipulating, mind games, and insidiously reducing me to a broken, paranoid, neurotic wreck again. Then they all left and haven't heard from any of them in weeks. Yet, once again, I'm left thinking I did something wrong, I must be an awful person, and that I deserve this torment.
I bought your book, but I'm struggling to concentrate. I have many things to be thankful for and I try so very hard to live in gratitude, but at the same time I feel worthless and struggle every day with thoughts of just wanting peace and quiet in my head and heart. Every day feels like groundhog day reliving every painful memories, replaying conversations, over and over again, analysing every painful experience. I often wake crying and angry simply because I woke up. Must read your book.
You did nothing wrong!!!! Your brightness and happiness is for you and your life. You exist for you, not as supply or to serve narcissistic people.
When attacked we naturally fight fire with fire. Plus, when you hear the same (projected) lie about you over and over again, you begin to believe it.
My boundaries were trampled and I was labeled selfish.
I was supporting his dream of music, and when I pulled out of his world and focused on my interests- THE ABUSE WORSENED.
I'm out of harms way, and dealing w the divorce.
It's a messy onion.
It improves. Like Dr says be gentle with yourself
@elizabethalexander6528 thank you, yes... I'm very mindful to be gentle., and still process.
I may have to re read "IT'S NOT YOU " a few times, gladly. Lol
When my Ex was leaving, she had convinced everyone that I was a narcissist. At that time, I really had no context for how people were using the term. I literally had to look it up, to understand what I was being accused of. Years later, during my long healing process, I was looking up information concerning my experiences, to read about how to heal from them, and almost every article was using this term. But not calling me one, but saying that I was in a relationship with a narcissist. Eventually, identifying the nature of the problems led me to this channel
❤ That with knowledge, there is freedom to think for myself. Self doubt is crippling.
The narc(s) have an uncanny ability to wear you down - you start off trying to make excuses for their behaviour and try to convince yourself that it's not what it seems, you think that you can do things to make things better, that the narc will change, sometimes the narc does change for a time, and becomes nice, but then goes nasty again, you keep trying to please the narc, hoping that things will get better, they don't, eventually you start getting upset at their behaviour and at that stage they start to get people on their side - and to protect yourself, you start mirroring their behaviour - combine that with their gaslighting you, eventually you start to think that you are the problem because the narc says you are, and anyone the narc's convinced to be on their side has told you that you are, even people you go to help (whether unknowingly or knowingly), tells you that you are. If you are told that often enough from many sources, combined with your own self-gaslighting, you begin to think that you are.
Exactly. And they lie over and over. I began to keep a journal of events because 6 months later he would say that never happened. I began to wonder if I was crazy until my Journaling. That made him so mad!!
It’s hard to differentiate whether you actually ARE narcissistic or if they have just TOLD you that you are. You truly do start to feel so disconnected that you feel that empathy is lost.
You feel hollow because you realise everything is right there in front of your eyes...
This is sooooooooooooo key! Myself and friends that I've made that also escaped an abusive Narc relationship OFTEN ask this of ourselves, and honestly have wondered: What if it's ME?!
But honestly I'd say the vast majority of Narc's can't even comprehend the notion that it could be them! So simply asking that question, genuinely, of oneself more or less shows that Nope! It's not you!
I totally feel like I am narcissistic. Maybe I don’t have npd but I do have some narcissistic traits. My ex has npd. My parents were narcissistic. I’m a recovering alcoholic. Of course I’m narcissistic on some level. If I’m not narcissistic than I have some toxic traits that kept me in that marriage/relationship for 16 years. We have children together and I notice some negative effects of my parenting with my children’s development. It’s hard but I’m working on getting healthier.
I hear you. We repeat the patterns that have been modeled for us. I used to enact a lot of toxic patterns because of the examples I was given.
As I have healed from my complex trauma, I have become healthier and less toxic, less narcissistic, with better boundaries and self-compassion. I hope you continue to find ways to be your best self for you as well as the people you love. Congratulations on your recovery. 🫂
As soon as I saw that sulking is when I knew ❤
I've had a pattern of feeling sorry for the narcissist that finally gets their comeuppance. The penny has finally dropped for why: it comes from having a narcissist father that I loved, simply because he was my father, but I was compelled to understand to protect my own sanity. I figured out it was him, not me, but the empathy that developed, while good overall, made me too understanding and too forgiving. I'm finally getting past this dynamic by understanding that these deeply wounded narcissists are still responsible for their bad actions. While motivated by shame and insecurity, they still know they're doing wrong--they consciously choose to do evil.
I saw the title and immediately knew I had to watch this. I've searched "am I a narcisst?" way too many times now and while I can recognize it in other people, to this day I'm not sure about myself.
same here- leads to despair n hypervigilance about my behaviors before i even act or speak
I have a whole new understanding of the phrase “smack talking” because of you. That was both comical and introspective.
Thank you for covering this! I was very close with someone recently and I was questioning whether or not they were a vulnerable narcissist. There was a dispute and they called ME a narc. Could have let it get to me, easily could have, but I knew what was really happening.
The idea that I'm empathyless and autistic is engraved deeply in me. Because I didn't want to stay married when my husband had affaires. He didn't earn any money because he's a very important photographer, artist and curator. Hardly helped in the house and with the kids. Partied every night and slept from morning till the afternoon. He eventually agreed to a divorce, but wanted to live together "because of the kids" (who he mostly ignored).
I'm the one who ended our "wonderful" relationship, who wrecked the home of our kids and who was selfish for not wanting to give him more.
And now the whole family and neighbors think I'm evil because he and te new live of his life (who now pays for him) tell them horrible tales about me.
I'm so grateful she took him in her house and life. And again, that's proof for me how horribly selfish I am.
Thanks, Dr. Ramani. This video really hit home. Last summer, I was fired by a narcisisstic boss. I worked for her for 8 years, and had very little opportunity for growth or advancement in my position. When I asked my boss for more growth opportunities, I was told I was being selfish, just as you pointed out. My boss was swimming in opportunity for herself, and had built a career where she got her name on most projects and reports in our department without ever lifting a finger to do the work, had opportunity that her colleagues didn't have, and was always getting awards (she would never recognize my work, of course). She even went as far as to say that all my colleagues also agreed with her that my request for growth was selfish. I knew that was bs, because none of my colleages would say that. She exploited me for years, then fired me when I started bringing up my own wants and needs and stood up for myself more. And she recently got rewarded with a promotion - go figure!
when will you ever make a discord community to help us connect with other victims Ms. Ramini?
Repeatedly i hear from him.... ""Your right, Im wrong...Your smart, Im stupid"" in a very negative and rage filled tone. Along with name calling and constantly bringing up mistakes or my past before we met......20 years ago..... I am mentally exhausted. I don't even want to talk to him anymore!!!
Run, please run.
He is correct though he says it mockingly. He knows it is true, and is gaslighting you.
He uses this tactic to manipulate you.
It will not stop. Accept that or leave.
Omg, this is me! I have been seriously questioning myself and trying soooo hard to be kind, thoughtful and look at myself critically so that I am not hurting anyone.
You know what’s sad? When you find out about narcissism and realize you can do it better than they can. ;) Dark empaths are going to be on the rise and they are going to be seeking out and playing with narcissists’ fears. Don’t believe me? Just watch.
BTW, I’m like 6 chapters in to your new book- wow!!!
Everyday I question myself and feel guilty that I may be the narcissist that is ruining the relationship
The same here . But do u think narc would do that ? They don’t have a skill of self reflection but notoriously good at shifting the blame to others
Well said @olyap1468 They wouldn't spend each day wondering if they are at fault. They handle guilt and shame really badly (they basically can't function with it, unlike us who can regulate) and go in deny and blaming mode fast and try to stay there the best they can to cope. They don't want to work on themselves really, because someone who does, has to see and make peace with the ugly parts of themselves. They are way too scared of that and have no patience or strength to do the real work. They think they can heal their deep issues in a week lmao, they don't have a clue, they never did much deep and hard work, that's why they have magic thinking. If they apologize, it's mostly to keep you as supply or if they're about to lose you.
Someone who is truly sorry, will not only apologize, but change the toxic pattern. If it looks like it's changing, it's only for a very short time thing or it's another mask and sometimes it's a bit harder to see or takes a while. We spend our relationship with them completely confused, alienated and crippled by self doubt. Once out, it takes a lot of time to not doubt and gaslight ourselves still. So even if we know rationally we are not the asshole or toxic one, emotionally, it's not so simple and easy.
But life will prove you time and time again that they don't correct their behaviors or patterns long term. You do. They have poor self awareness. You do not. You'll notice that they can't seem to have any real/deep and healthy relationship that lasts with anyone, while you can with more stable people, people that aren't focused on controlling you to regulate.
I have to remind myself a lot to not look myself through the narc's (or toxic people's) perception of me. As an empath, we go into people's shoes and judge ourselves through their eyes. Cause we understand them, we feel what they feel, we can see how they could be upset and since we've been conditionned to always take the blame and responsibility, it's easy for them to manipulate us into trusting their version of us more than our own. But there are people that should not be allowed our empathy, that we shouldn't go into to figure out if we are the problem. Their vision of us is distorted anyway. Maybe you feel like you may be the problem when you try to see yourself through the abuser or people that misunderstands you? I know I do all the time. I'm working on it, but was only aware of that recently, that my mind wanted so bad answers about how people were perceiving me, I was going into the mind of people who weren't good to me to figure it out, since I couldn't trust myself anymore. You'll always find the same confusing answers in them, but it will never feel really right either, because it's just not who you are. How do you see yourself through the eyes of those who understands you? Or through your own eyes, when you are at peace and in touch with your soul?
Another proof that you are not the problem but the one that got gaslighted to oblivion, is that you are riddled with self doubt everyday. Were you that bad before you met that person?
Bless you and focus back on yourself and your soul family when you self doubt.
Wow this was spot on!! I don't share good news anymore because it's always criticized. I don't eat pork as a way of being in solidarity with my Muslim partner but my family managed to put pork in every single dish for Christmas, despite that not being our tradition.. they legitimately were punishing me and trying to ostracize my partner who was celebrating their first ever (and probably last) Christmas with my relatives. I tell them about a trip I'm taking and it's just criticism or belittling. I told them about a fellowship I won, one person congratulated me and the rest were silent or negative. I asked if i could be reimbursed for a funeral cost, i was told that i was entitled for even asking. ENTITLED because i ASKED! There's never any winning, nothing is positive, it's a losing battle with these miserable people. And what's worse is that now that we've all gone NC from our narc father, there's still this horrible narc system that's self sustaining.
I just got hoovered a few minutes ago. After 4 years. So I'm going to take a big dose of Dr. Ramani videos to suppress the feeling of euphoric recall and stay out of contact😅
Stay strong!
@bruschienmartiziens Thanks so much for the support🤗
@plegeplege
Don't fall for it
You will just be re-living the cycle of abuse again & again
Don't go back there. It is really not worth it. Stay strong. You can do it ❣️
@maevebutler4641 I know. I won't go back. There are parts of my brain that keeps reminding me of all the fun and happy times. But, thanks to the advice from Dr. Ramani, in one of her videos, I had made a long list with very bad memories to help me defeat my own brain😂 And it really helps!
Thank you very much for caring🤗
Your videos make me cry a lot, including this one.
I think what happens is as we learn more about narcissism, especially from you and others, and some of the things and comments said we start to think about ourselves and see a few similarities. That’s when we start thinking are we the narcissist? But there is a grave difference or differences, between a few similarities and being a full-blown narcissist. The whole mindset and outlook of the person and how they interact in the world and in society in general is the difference. As I’ve said before, I don’t think a person can suffer any type of abuse, especially from being a child and not have some traits of something that they need to work on.
"High maintenance" is another thing you could be called. If the things you need are basic - like snacks and drinks or rest or standard/inexpensive supplies --- you're probably not high maintenance.
I asked him to get a proper comforter for his bed. Could've been something inexpensive. I started lugging over a sleeping bag. He still wouldn't take the hint.
Such a great video Dr Ramani , thanks again for all your doing in this sphere
Really, this trap happens again and again, because in the most basic sense we all have an ego and self reflective part of our Psyche.. but in balance and in health, like you say, we should be able yo enjoy ourselves, feel good about our taste and preferences, feel a degree of self confidence and humble pride, feel good in our relationships about our own actions, but with narcissm, all that gets twisted.. and as self responsible people, our first port of call is to reflect back and see if anything is amiss within us.. but as soon as that happens a narc has us hooked. It still feels like a dangerous dance to me to learn to simply shrug off some people evaluations and apparent needs, because they are far too dangerous to become involved with.. I'm still recovering my sense of how I hold peace as a person who values all life and in essence seeing all people as good. But I do understand, that I have choices, and my love needs to extend to myself first and foremost.. once that is secure, these other games become less easy to trip us
I mean no one is perfect. Narc or not anyone can be guilty of toxic behaviors sometimes
Onions and garlic in a dish I brought to dinner. Raisins and Bourbon in the Pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving made me the Narcissist to my mother in law. Guess what. She never would put those ingredients in any of her cooking. Go figure.
So true. Everything mentioned in this video resonates so much .
One of the best videos out there that is really helpful !
I needed to hear this today. Thank you. ❤
Gaslighting defined perfectly.
There is a detox element I am experiencing because certain patterns that were not mine beforehand - at least some were picked up. The last thing I ever want is to make someone feel the way he did with the dismissive and arrogant behavior - I think actively going in and recognizing what was picked up and making an effort to stop any behaviors even if they are minor or don’t happen that regularly is really important. Being with these kinds of people slowly makes someone compromise their values a little bit at a time and that has a real impact especially after years and years of being with them.
I have to eat for thyroid support and hand to heart just heard that I was selfish for it.
4:49 SUCH a good point! It was my graduation party and my dad was going around talking to the guests, and like a flip was switched, I decided to be more social like he was being, and so I began to talk in the groups he was talking to and was cracking jokes and generally being social and likeable and I remember noticing how once I began to be social and uplifting in the group my dad began to get sulky and pouty, and I remember thinking, "am I doing something wrong?" and felt like maybe I should stop being so "social" or acting so "nice" to make my dad feel better.
I remember feeling guilty for him, like I was hurting him somehow, but looking back, he should have been proud of me and been cheering me on, not sulking when I was "stealing the show" from him at MY OWN graduation party... lol. Part of me feels angry at him for being a little crybaby about it as a grown man, and the other part of me still struggles with feeling guilty, as if I am hurting him or doing something wrong.
Anyway, Thank you Dr Ramani for your videos and working for our collective good through your channel and stuff.
Thank You, For your clear thoughts and wise insight!
Appreciate very much!
Take Care
Jenny 🙏🏻🌸
I’ve been grey rock from my mother and sister for over 7 yrs. Last Christmas I was receiving phone calls from my sister and brother pressuring me to start up socializing with them and my mother again. I did go visit with my mother once last year to let her know I was okay but that was not of important to her. Anyway I was getting irritated with my brother and my husband called me a narcissist. He’s a moderate narcissist. He has a way of blindsiding me. I used to get upset but I’ve learned to walk away cause I feel like others don’t understand and I look bad. That’s when I signed up with your teachable program to talk to others going through same things. Got your book. It has brought me clarity. Everything has helped.
While going through my struggles and therapy. I mentioned this topic in the sense that i wondered how much of narcissism might be, inherent or appliccable to me or my views/choices.
Luckily my therapist, looked at me, fell back in his seat, looked at me and smiled in an endearing way. Saying "1st off all, narcissists are not expected in therapy. As long and engaged as you are. They can, but unlikely, because deep down, they don't think there's anything wrong with them. 2nd, just No."
That was very comforting. 😅
Thank you @DoctorRamani ... I really needed this video!! You are my saving grace! I'm reading your book slowly, in effort to totally absorb it. Just a few months ago I was contemplating s***ide daily. Currently, I am happy to wake up every day. I need to hear these 'lessons' daily to avoid rumination. Thanks for explaining things so thoroughly; keep posting! 🥰🥰
I would love to send you empowering hugs and good thoughts from my home in Australia.
I not so long ago also was very close to, ending my life
Thankfully a beautiful angel, my neighbour came over for a chat with a kind caring lawyer friend
Through kindness, guidance showing me I was worthy
I hadn't discussed my thoughts with anyone, but you see there are fabulous caring people amongst us, quietly guiding PRN
Bless them and Dr Ramani I am here
Moved on
Wasn't a easy road
But you also can move on and find peace within
Find your happy place
Don't let Narc,s disembowel you
You are worthy❤
@@user-uz8np4iv8g 🥰🥰🩷
It’s true that after my toxic narcissistic relationship I did struggle with this question.
It’s because we are afraid they put themselves in us and we will become like them.
We do pick up some habits but you gotta do the work to weed them out.
🙏🏾
That slap is a great idea! Thank you. I have ADHD, Anxiety, P.T.S.D., C.P.T.S.D. and Depression. In a few years, i have lost all of the people that i cared about and vice versa and my Alcoholic, Narcissist sister destroyed the rest. She is killing herself though, drunk after cancer and ruptured bowels.
I laughed when I read the title of this ... Why? is this so true ...
Disentangling is a good term for the huge mess these relationships are. When you said this I had visions of a whole bunch of necklaces, etc. that we’ve probably all tried to untangle at some point. Not easy, very frustrating and sometimes some of them become broken😓. Thank you for this video. I too thought it was me at times and sometimes still have that thought pop into my head. At those times, though painful, K have to go through my internal “ick list”
Being first raised by a narcissistic mother then later marrying a narcissistic man, I often have to be aware of, and mindful of how I manage my close relationships. Not only do I exhibit past severe emotional abuse symptoms, my formative years were shaped by the covert narcissist’s example. Their tools of manipulation and control of their loved ones. My examples of what love was supposed to be. Basically I learned a very toxic way of being in relationships. It’s taken a few years to be able to recognize the difference between me just using the only tools/tactics I’d been taught by example and actually being a narcissist. Especially when I catch myself being petty, possessive and/or insensitive about people who trigger my insecurities.
its like Dr. Ramani had a camera and watched my marriage. Just listened to her new book. its great!! This book is so spot on its scary. i completely stopped saying anything that started with I. When i did that she would always say "its always about you isnt it". Thanks again
10:35 Being selfish is important. I've always had a good sense of how much weight Im pulling & how much the other person is pulling. Im willing to do 70% of the work. That way I can confidently say: No, Ive done my part. Im not lifting a finger to help you do the rest
My mother has told me repeatedly that I'm selfish since I was a child... I've internalized so much guilt and shame for the majority of my 31 years (come April 12) on this planet...I finished watching this video in tears.. tears of relief.. but also, of pain... Because.. why would my mother or any mother for that matter, want to make their child, let alone their only child, feel so awful for just being a child?? It hurts.. I don't know if it will ever stop hurting either.. my mother and I haven't spoken in a couple of years, but to the one or two people who we share close ties too, she still to this day says horrendous, and also untrue lies and rumors about me too.. I don't retaliate though.. because regardless, I still want to have a relationship with my mother... I don't understand.. I mean, I do understand.. but it's just so damn painful that it's hard to accept, I guess. . . I will always love her though.. even if it's at a distance..😢
💯💯💯This video is extremely important and informative for victims. Thanks Dr.Ramani for your precious contributions ❤❤
Any time I told my ex narc about an accomplishment I made, he would shut me down with “why’d you do that” or “it’s not like when I did…” or “wasn’t as good as when I …”. I didn’t get it at the time. I finally gave up trying and shut down completely. I can only imagine what he’s told everyone as to why we divorced. The alienation from friends and family was the worst.
Thank you Dr. Ramani for helping me heal❤
I remember always telling people I am way more of a narcissist than my (ex)husband is. It didn’t help that my husband always pointed out how self-centered I am (and he’s right about that).
I know people say if you think you are a narcissist you aren’t one, but I figured I had studied narcissism so much because of the narcissists in my life that I couldn’t escape the same glaring traits in myself. So I figured, well, if I’m not an actual narcissist I am so close to the edge that I am severely narcissistic in temperament, and I really need to work on these traits.
Well, I was recently diagnosed … as an empath! That was a shocker! I’m still puzzled by all my narcissism inside of me. But I’m working on that, because no one deserves that from me.
BTW, I have since learned that although my husband is not NPD (he does have some empathy, but it’s very low, and he has apologized to me and the kids for his failures), he is extremely high in narcissistic traits.
Accepting your flaws rather than hiding them
Very helpful video video for victims trying to understand their reactions while feeling had about their negative reactions. The vulnerable Narc is the worst.
Projection?!?!?!?
The definitive proof I needed was when I lost my cool one day while my dad was berating my mom. I told him "we can solve this problem, but you cannot talk to my mother that way" which sent him 😅
He ultimately tried to imply I did much worse to him and my mom by going NC for a while. I replied "how is me doing nothing harming you?" He stammered "well it made me feel really sad". I just gave him a look, glanced at my mom, then back at him. He got the message loud and clear and tried to change the topic. That told me exactly what the difference is between a narcissist and a normal person is!
The shocking reality is some of these relationships endure. To remain the co dependent becomes narcissistic. Must please the controlling power. You truly understand the slants that occur. The reality is not understood. You are expected to be obedient to the dictates of the group. As a person damaged by narcissistic abuse our needs are to avoid similar drama. We want to heal, and these are not understanding people. It's exactly what you describe. We have been prevented from living and are seemingly kept in the patterns the narcissist created. It's discomfort, only it's our comfort zone. You can't interact with a narcissist and walk away happy. They don't process life the same way. When it's differing cultures AND narcissism it's a tremendously difficult situation. Your personal identity is totally challenged. Understanding but not being forced to be who you are not, would be healthy. Stay true to your self.
I spent the last three years dissecting myself and watching and hypervigilant with every move of mine, and my communications with people. I still am so hypervigilant about myself that I have shut down completely. I go to work and come back, do my work and keep to myself. I don't really have any friendly conversations. I have two friends who check up on me... but i don't want to talk much. .... I was told I was someone who destroys people and am a sociopath, crazy, pshcyopath and narc by the guy who dumped me, and then I started to observe only to realise that even my family was saying stuff which wasn't true. like i'm greedy, selfish.... etc. I mean is there nothing good about me? I spoke to a therapist who only said to me, move out... so i'm working on it. but I can't stop being vigilant about myself.
same here girl, if this helps validate your feelings n the hopelessness n despair it causes. hugs n may healing n confidence come back to you. use good positive words for yourself n uplift your soul with positive activities n thoughts.
@hashh2019 you know what.. its so important to have a therapist to help you.. someone who understands this. My therapist told me I should have been over it by now. I'm obsessed. She called me obsessed. When he left I told him, you spent so much time with me, if you knew it wasn't working from the beginning like you said, why did you stay, and he didn't have an answer. After the whole storm he threw on me I asked him tell me one good thing abt me. He stared blank at my face and said the only thing good abt you was that you had a good heart, other than that you were shit from the beginning. And there are other things. I'm a very practical and logical person. So I have started to write everything he said down. And often I sit and analyze all that. When this happened what was I doing.. did u really hurt him.. why did I hurt him.. did I say this, why did I say it.. etc. Same with my parents. I write and think why and how.. and try to find an answer. I fell into this relationship because I didn't know this was wrong. You know if you have narc parents they prepare you for this. You think this is the way to be.. I don't know what to say. I have lost so much.. its a mess.. and ya. Sometimes I feel like all this micro questioning drives me nuts. I don't talk to anyone cos they'll think I'm nuts. I don't want that Tomorrow when things become okay.. they should have this nutty image of me. Ppl don't forgive easily you know. They don't give you a chance.
I'm autistic. When I was 11 I met a psychopath online and we've been "friends" (abusive codependent trauma bond) since, talking on and off.
I have no idea if I'm info dumping as an autist or if I'm over talking as a narcissist. I don't know. Over the years, I've dabbled in sociopathic behaviors after witnessed my psychopathic friend abusing and manipulating me. In moments I have been intentionally selfish and narcissistic. These moments have all blended together.
Going through this video. Wanting to be treated as an equal and this desire being seen as a fault because how dare I not acknowledge that he is better than me in every way, just by nature. He's a psychopath and I'm just a stupid little whatever hes "diagnosed" me as a sociopath, an autist, bpd, npd, you name it, hes called me a majority of the cluster b disorders.
The need for admiration. Everyone desires validation. How do I know if my desire is excessive?
My psychopath friend. Its almost like you need to be small for him to be big, the idea of me being big isn't even something he's willing to consider, like it would invalidate him.
I feel this sometimes... Like a little twinge of jealousy when others succeed, that I would prefer to be succeeding. But I acknowledge the feeling and move on, try to give others their moments. Accept failure because it has nothing to do with the price of rice in China and move on.
My friend though. Hes an overachiever. Same archetype as Elon musk, owned businesses before he turned 18, always managing people. I once told him a parable or whatever that I came up with to describe what I saw him doing
Emotionality is represented by water, or cups in tarot. Say an emotional problem is like having to cross a river on your path. Me? I tend to just jump in the water, swim through and deal with the consequences in that way. But him? He will drag his cart of supplies everywhere he goes, and he builds the most beautiful bridges. He would do anything to avoid getting wet. If people saw him vulnerable and wet, it would be like accepting a fault. Accepting that he is human like everybody else. So he runs around prepared as can be, and every bridge he builds he tears down after he crosses.
The bridge represents emotional manipulation. He will do anything to avoid getting wet. If he sees someone else soaking wet though? Oh, that person must be the dumbest person alive. How could you be so stupid as to get water on your clothes, which is clearly the end of the world. As if you could do everything right and die having never touched water.
Thank you I needed to hear this. I have been told a number of times by a family member that I am selfish, I wish I could just leave but I do not have the finances to do that.
My narc lives in a fantasy world where she's an unappreciated genius in every one of her endeavors and everyone envies her and she should be a politician because surely she would usher in world peace. I create fantasies of being in a relationship marked by love, affection, appreciation and reciprocity. Are we the same?
I’m so glad i came across your channel. Although it was several years ago, I was still in the relationship and couldn’t believe anything but what she told me. Now I believe it and see it because I’m away
This one really got to me because it is so applicable and because it is acknowledged by you. I respect and hold in high esteem that it’s coming from you, Dr. Ramani. 😔
i was just looking this question yeasterday !!!!!!
This hit home. I am not supposed to think badly about my adult child.
I grew up with narcissistic father ... Though I was playing the role of scapegoat yet I was always labelled as his enabler and selfish by my mother and sister, of course it's not completely their fault because my father created an atmosphere where people used to think that he wasn't the one who is the problem but, someone like"me" poked him or irritated him that's why he did so... I remember once he bought a laptop for my daughter I told him that my daughter didn't need that but he forced it, I couldn't say anything to him. But when he went back to his house he told my sister that he couldn't bring her laptop because I told him to give that to me... My mother understood what he did but my sister couldn't she fought with me for a month ... I tried to tell her the whole story but she didn't believe.... My mother, sister and sometimes brother too fell into his trap ... And then they blame me for encouraging him... I loved my father so much but it also broke my heart everytime... People also shame me to love a person like him, but they saw him as an abuser and I saw him as my father...
Though I stopped that when I was 14 still I felt for him sometimes
He also tried to break my marriage 😑😑 by saying to my husband that I was a horrible daughter so I should not be someone's wife or mother of his children...
What I learnt is anyone who has a lot of self worth could come out of narcissistic relationship but those children, whose worth depend on their narcissistic parent find it hard to have self worth.... Sending you all a lot of hugs who are struggling...
Have listened to all my sisters up and down for years. I started cutting her of to tell her a bit about my life, for a change. She looked at me and said: you are using me as an unpaid therapist! … I have gone no contact❤
I knowww....I have thought about myself being one 😢
Thank you for your help, support and validation dr Ramani. God bless you ❤
My mother had made me feel selfish my entire life. Everything must cater to her. If I do anything separate from her to make myself happy, I am made to feel selfish.
I would tell my ex I needed time and space to set aside to work on myself personally and he would call me selfish and said when I “worked” on myself that I ignored him. So I would stop working on myself because I didn’t want to be selfish.
Being out of this relationship for almost a year now, I’m STILL trying to come to terms that I was not the narcissist.
I was called the narcissist if I voiced my expectations that things would be fair; if I didn’t shower them with the utmost praise for anything they did; and the biggest accusation, was when they’d beat me down verbally to the point I’d shut down and walk away, I was the narcissist because then I was “stonewalling” them.
In the end, it’s their manipulative gaslighting they always makes you feel like YOUR the problem
To anyone reading this: Because the narcissist has manipulated you into thinking that way. Escape, when it is safest to. Freedom will be the best thing that has ever happened to you, I promise you that! ❤️
Finally cut ties with my narcissistic ‘best friend’ after 9 years - she made me feel so small and worthless and exploited my empathic nature - she won over my family and I knew she had a difficult childhood so I defended her - I knew she was abusive and tbh felt like she hated me but she kept hoovering me, playing on my guilt and loyalty - I spent years thinking I was the crazy one, I was the one who needed to change - I pushed myself so hard trying to meet her expectations but then the goal posts would shift again and I’d feel like a failure - she wore down my confidence so much that I began isolating myself from the people in my life who really care about me - she needed absolute control over my life (including my relationships with my family, my career choices, my living situation) - i finally had enough and blocked her on all social media platforms and I finally feel in control of my life again - nothing will get back the last 9 years of my life but I sure as hell won’t let anyone have that sort of power over me again… these people are so dangerous!!