There was a close up shot of the two a few moments earlier. I think its just continuity errors when that happens, because he's covering any editing bases while they're all the way out at the range.
The fact that this is the civilian version of the cartridge and its zipping down that barrel at about 3100fps and cracking ribs behind lvl 4 plates with just a solid copper 113gr projectile is pretty wild. I could just imagine what the heavier military projectiles are gonna do with the higher pressured ammo 😮
Are civilian rounds not generally higher pressure and velocity because they're not required to perform in as adverse a set of conditions? Commerical .308s, for example, typically run higher, often 25% higher, PSIs. I coincidentally listened to a Hornady podcast episode on .308 this morning. You are right on the bullet construction though TSX is a hunting projectile, they're just copper with no lead. Militaries often use differently constructed bullets, steel core for armour piercing
The 6.8 fury is good . But if every soldier in our military,can't have it then it's worthless. Plus it's not way better than 308. The 120 gr in 308 could do the same thing if loaded correctly
Brandon Herrera did a video a while back about a 3D printed suppressor that took three mags back to back from an m4 and he immediately held the weapon by the suppressor. It was still cool to the touch.
Зачем? 5.56 имеет больше плюсов нежели новый калибр,хотя бы в том что боевые действия показали чем больше носимый боекомплект солдата тем больше шансов выиграть бой.
So a 113 grain copper bullet out of a 13” barrel going at 3050fps drops only 1 mil at 500 yards? That’s just mind blowing. Apparently it does blow minds out of the back of the head very well too. I shoot the Barns 130 TTSX in 308. Out of a 16” barrel it’s right at 3000fps and it’s just unbelievable on game.
@@stevenhall2408 They can't, this improvement is because old guns can't handle them. Even guns being made brand new are too weak. Sorry, they are. We've had metals capable of handling much higher pressure for decades but that would require new designs for this higher pressure. Thats why this new rifle is revolutionary: its the first rifle being made for a modern upgraded chamber pressure.
The cavity damage that 277 round does. Ridiculously lethal. That combustion right after the bullet punctures the gel and seems to just explode inside is crazy. A lot of kinetic energy that round is carrying.
In the summer of 2007, i waa leading my fire team down a street pushing north of my platoon in a town south of baghdad. We were pushing toward a building on the end of the street to take a couple of AT4s on the roof. We had been in a series of skirnishes with fighters, including armed trucks, and needed AT posted. We ran past an occupies building with 2 guys + AKs. One opened fire as i ran past. He hit me with 2 rounds. One hit my side plate, crimpling it and breaking 2 ribs. Round number 2 hit my hip, breaking bone and dropping me. I was very fortunate to be armored against that threat, because if that hadnt stopped the first round, I'd be dead.
@@snapdragon6601 Yeah we yeeted a couple of frags in there. I was pushed to the cash and then to Germany. I didn't get back my platoon until almost Christmas. By the time I got back, most of our first squad had been sent home, along with one of track crews. That was one hell of a year
Garand Thumb is great but he can’t be compared to Future Weapons. No tactical whispering, no bald seal, no use of 2000s electronical music, no cool sound effects...
Your regular grunt on a standard loadout with an M4 and 210 rounds of ammo comes in at around 75 to 90 pounds. With the M7, a soldier is expected to carry about 5 pounds of extra weight with only 140 rounds of ammo. 5 pounds might not be much but try carrying over 90 pounds of gear for hours on end and you have less rounds to use. I hope this goes well.
That's why the Military should just look at 6mm MAX. We need a round with more power, but not at the cost of 70 less rounds. And 6mm MAX is only slightly heavier, and is ballistically superior to 5.56 in every way!
Not how that works lol. Unless the round is barely being stopped the backface deformation should be minimal, and absent any super huge BFD the worst you’ll have is a bruise. Remember Newton’s third law, it’s only the same force as the recoil, the only reason the bullet kills is because of the surface area. Edit: nevermind just saw the part in the vid. still, a trauma pad would mitigate most of that.
@@jonathanpfeffer3716yeah well, of course you also have to account for the variations in the human body. Everyone will take the shock a bit differently and the context can make a difference too. Those dummies are only a facsimile meant to be a close, but not perfect, representative of an average human subject, too. Depending on a person and their build, even with the trauma plate behind it, there will be a range of performance outcomes depending on where someone is hit and other factors like their size and physique. One guy might get a busted rib despite a plate and vest to absorb and slow the projectile down, another guy might not even get a bruise. It’s not like fricking video games where it’s a fixed value that soaks up a certain amount of damage. Ballistics comparisons are helpful, but real life is always more messy and unpredictable. That’s part of the reason why we don’t aim to create armor that protects our soldiers from every conceivable caliber or combat conditions. We simply make armor that’s just good enough. It might not totally stop you from being injured, but the lives they save still speak for themselves. Even back before body armor became standard military equipment, firearms were still plenty lethal, and still more soldiers died from injuries after battles than they did from fatal wounds. Alongside the development of modern medical science making it much easier to help soldiers who do sustain injury, body armor saves many lives just by being good enough to prevent and mitigate injuries to a degree that people don’t instantly die and have much better chance of surviving to receive care for any injuries they do sustain than they would otherwise. Coming at it from this perspective is necessary too, when you consider that there has to be a balance between the weight, protective capacity, cost, and availability of the armor we choose to deploy. For what it does, modern armor is truly amazing. The same logic applies to their process for developing these next generation weapons. Their goal isn’t to make the most powerful or perfect weapons platforms, it’s to make one’s that will reliably do what work we need them to do while also fitting into our overall strategic designs and capacities, which is why they have so many constraints on the design. They already know exactly what they want to use them for and how they’d like them to be implemented, and the whole point of the design contest process is to determine it’s feasibility and value, in addition to evaluating different designs to find a suitable candidate worth the cost.
Small suggestion: When shooting armor at close range I'd do it from behind cover. I shot a chunk of steel plate like that once with .308 and had a ring-shaped piece of jacket fly back, penetrate three inches into my leg and come to a rest right up against my femoral artery. Yes I can send proof if you want.
I'd be genuinely interested to see that, while I have used firearms before, I've never seen an injury from ricochet. It'd be good educational material.
@@curtisevans8413 I'll find a place to put the photos where you can click and see them, and I'll put the link here. One reason it happened is the steel was 1/2" thick unhardened mild steel. If the steel target is hardened the bullet is a lot more likely to just splatter outward, though nothing is 100 percent. With soft mild steel the slug penetrated partway through and created that ring-shaped piece of jacket that could bounce back. Not the only time I had that happen either. Have you seen the video of the guy shooting a .50 at steel, and having a ricochet come back and knock his earmuffs off? I had that happen too. I had a Big Boar Grizzly and a 4" thick chunk of steel. I let somebody else shoot it at around 100' with an AP round, and the steel penetrator flew back and skipped off the ground right in between us and dinged my bumper. So in general, I'm just against shooting steel unless it's a nice long ways away.
While I agree it's a good idea to do it in a safer manner, shooting steel is much different than shooting ceramic or kevlar. Steel bounces bullets off, ceramic and kevlar catch projectiles. It's not impossible for it to ricochet but it's a lot less likely than steel.
And they already declined 280 british and similar rounds and then went back to basically the same thing will these years later after forcing people to use 5.56
@@thesupreme8062why upend the entire arsenal with new proprietary rifles and ammunition when there's plenty of SR25/ KAC M110 pattern rifles with pallets of ammunition capable to 1000yds already in storage? Makes way more sense from a logistics standpoint to issue AR10 pattern rifles with modern magazines and optics 🤷♂️ How often is the US military fighting against Lvl4 armor? China and Russia aren't using special plates, rifles or ammo.
@@SuspiciousGanymede The point being was to have every soldier engage at longer rangeswith more firepower than 5.56 like Afghanistan showed. I think that's why they want this. Ofc military somehow decides this rifle should be a close range beast too. . . I think they will make a carbine version with the round just like m16 later spawned the m4 which replaced the former and making submachine guns almost completely wiped out. They already have a smaller MCX platform they can use the round on.
It is a killer rifle my only concern would be barrel life. The trade off for that super hot smokin fast round is that the barrel is definitely going to be wearing out really fast.
That shot at 9:28 Reminder: This is CIVILIAN GRADE .277 Fury with relatively medium sized SOLID COPPER bullet. I dont wanna imagine the faster and heavier Mil-Grade version gonna do
People always think the military runs gear and ammo that is so much superior to what civilians can get their hand on when this couldn't be further from the truth. The fact is the military will often select budget friendly equipment since they have to mass produce it. I say this as veteran who is now a civilian competition shooter. The custom rifles people use, and the ammo they reload are so much more advanced than anything I ever used while active duty. This round is relatively new, but once more civilians get their hands on it, begin tinkering with it figuring out the best loads, it will be far greater than what the military provides. Point being, this round is the exact round the military will likely issue.
@@agonzalez8924 I thought the military .277 was a steel and brass hybrid casing? This is fundamentally different than the civilian rounds, no? I've heard that's how they can achieve upwards of 80-100k psi, which is devastating compared to 60k psi
@@PureRushXevus people were raising all kinds of hell about it on other social media I'm sure the GT team is aware of this f up lol. Hopefully we see nothing like this again.
You what's kind of interesting when Army was looking for a new rifle to replace the M1903. They settled on the M1 in .276 Peterson, they really liked the .276 but MacArthur convinced the military to go with 30-06 because they had so much of it. Fast forward today they choose a rifle in .277.
Very interesting...so did MacArthur have a head for numbers and was saving dollars in his head?Was the .276 Pedersen more effective in killing the enemy?Would they have changed the LMG'S into .276??I have questions!!
@@wirelessone2986 It would have had a little less recoil, and therefore it would have been a little easier for the average infantryman to hit targets with, but otherwise wouldn't have been any more effective. The only reason .276 Pedersen even existed was because there were no semi-auto rifles suitable for military use that could handle .30-06. The second that it became clear that the Garand could handle .30-06 without a problem, at the cost of only two rounds of magazine capacity, the .276 was dead.
@jic1 Bravo thank you brutha...your description made sense and with the garand able to easily handle .30 06....Wow...it was going to hit the soldiers of the axis powers solidly.
BC = Ballistic coefficient btw for anyone wondering. Basically a float value based on the shape of the round and its ability to slice through the air / minimize air resistance. Calculated by Mass / (drag coefficient x cross sectional area)
@@elterga6224for sure, because infantry are all kitted out exclusively with 50 cals like… or maybe weapon designation is determined based on the expected threats. Just because something is adopted doesn’t mean it’s immediately the favorite 😜
@@elterga6224you still have the GWOT mentality where shitting out 1000’s of rounds of 5.56 solved problems. We’re shifting away from fighting insurgents and unconventional warfare where volume of fire was priority over accuracy. This platform and round were clearly made with accuracy as the forefront over volume of fire. Add the fancy scope that automatically adjust itself, and you have a very effective platform in the hands of trained individuals. Once these get fielded, it’s up to the army to implement effective training so our guys and gals in OCP know how to use this correctly and effectively. Training will be where the real issue will lie and if the army can successfully implement things.
@@gabetaylor28 I don't want to be disrespectful or sound like an ass, but did you serve? My time spent in the Marines, I can tell you with 100% certainty that volume of fire is more effective than trying to make every troop into a standalone "sniper". We got good training, but that doesn't make everyone an expert on the range. A vast majority of troops don't score expert with 5.56 and I wouldn't expect them to with this caliber either and that's under very controlled conditions. I have a number of grievances with this caliber as standard issue. 1. Weight 2. Recoil control 3. Ammunition capacity (this ties in with weight obviously) 4. manual of arms. The added weight of this round is going to suckkk. a few pounds extra makes a big difference. The recoil of this caliber is significantly more than 5.56, particularly for those troops who only qual a few times a year and that's it and taking follow up shots with this will be slower. Ammo capacity will be much more limited than 5.56 and I don't see troops focusing on accuracy as being as effective as volume of fire. The manual of arms for this weapon system will be similar in some ways to an M16/M4 but with some key differences, particularly in gas system operations and proprietary systems built into the gun by the manufacturer. Also, most service members in all branches cant shoot for shit honestly. I thought I was pretty good scoring expert everytime during quals but once I did some training in the private sector, I realized I was pretty average with the skills I had at that time.
@@gabetaylor28volume of fire is not a counter insurgency tactic, at all. Volume of fire is vastly more applicable to a near pear conflict, you have it backwards essentially. Larger, heavier hitting rounds would have been more applicable to the golden age of SOF (1993-2021) which we’re coming out of now. If anything 5.56 is more applicable now then it was 15 years ago. This cartridge is a day late and a dollar short
First I want to thank for the video. It was excellent and extremely informative. Now with that said, it is my very personal opinion that the M7 will go the way of the M14. I have no doubt this gun will be deployed and it will have a longer life than the M14 as a combat weapon, [but] in time it will be replaced as the basic battle rifle by something chambered in 6mm ARC or similar cartridge. There are numerous reasons but let’s talk about just four. a. Weight. The gun with a basic loadout of ammunition is considerably heavier than an M4 with a loadout of 5.56 ammo. Weight will be the single biggest reason for a change. b. Barrel life. You mentioned 10,000 rds as the expected barrel life for the M7. You were in the military, and you know that it will take no time at all to fire 10,000 rds in combat. You talked about 2.5 MOA for this gun. If 2.5 MOA is all that is required with a fresh barrel, how bad do you think that MOA will be at 5,000 rds let alone at 10,000 rds? Once that barrel gets past about 3,000 rds with an 80,000 psi chamber pressure the gun is going to spray bullets all over the place especially past 100 meters. You and your crew are professional firearms users. Think about a basic troop. How well do you believe a basic infantryman will handle this gun with a burned out barrel over 100 meters?
c. This gun is exclusive to Sig Sauer for both the gun itself and the ammunition. There is one source for gun, ammo, and parts. Does that sound like a good idea for a weapon you need accepted by NATO and you may need large quantities of quickly? d. This gun and the 6.8x51 cartridge were marketed and sold to the Government as something the military needed to defeat “advanced” body armor. While I am not a combat veteran, I do have an extensive background with the Army, and I can tell you that the decisions to go with the M7 and the 6.8x51 cartridge were not made by Soldiers and Marines that would have to actually carry and use it in combat. In the words of Clint Smith, “Body armor is only good if the person shooting at you can hit it.” Where are most injuries occurring on a combatant? They are occurring on the extremities, e.g. the arms, legs, and areas not covered by body armor. Look at your own results at trying to penetrate Class IV body armor. You said it in the video that “armor piercing rounds would be needed to penetrate Class IV body armor. Well, if I need armor piercing rounds anyway, I can get that in 7.62x51mm, 5.56x45mm, and definitely in 6x38mm (6mm ARC). All of which don’t have the issues of the 6.8x51mm cartridge. Bottom line, the military does need a cartridge with greater lethality than is currently offered by the 5.56x45 cartridge past 300 meters. They learned that lesson over the twenty plus years we were in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, but do they really need a cartridge with 80,000 psi chamber pressure and all the issues those pressures cause? I personally don’t think so, especially if you still need an armor piercing projectile. The U.S. military already has a cartridge in inventory that will do the job, the 7.62x51 and it doesn’t have anything close to the 6.8x51 in barrel burnout. I personally believe the 6mm ARC or a comparable cartridge that can use the AR15/M4 framework will be the new battle cartridge, but that is a whole video by itself. I will mention a couple of reasons why I think the 6 ARC will be the new cartridge. First, Special Operations Command (SOCOM) requested the cartridge from Hornady and they are using it. The 2nd reason I think it will be the new cartridge is, Hornady hasn’t released license to allow others to make it, just like Sig hasn’t released license for the .277 Fury. Again, thank you and your sponsors for making this video. It was extremely informative.
The 277 Fury is in hold right now pending more durability testing of the rifles. Some of the brass does not like it because it is too much like the M-14 story - ammo too powerful and heavy which makes the rifle heavy. It might replace the 7.62 round but not the 5.56, but it's anyone's guess as to what the brass will decide.
Well...as an Old Fart 👴 Veteran... I think they oughta just leave " Well Enough " Alone...! I wasn't a Fan when they switched from the .45 caliber 1911 to the NATO 9mm... ( guess they forgot " Why " the .45 1911 was adopted...!?? 🙄 ) , Not to mention , going from the .30 - 06 to the .308 / 7.62 x 51mm...n the M - 16 5.56mm .. Thank God they had the Good Sense ta keep Mr. Brownings' " MA Duce " .50 caliber
@@nelsonlanglois9104 the 45 ACP was invented as a replacement to the Colt 45 which was adopted because it could put cavalry horses down. The DOD switched to 9 mm for ammo commonality within NATO. The M-14 was a failure in Vietnam and lessons were learned from that failure, which resulted in the adoption of the M-16. The 50 MBG "Ma Deuce" is still in service because it does not have to be carried around by an infantry grunt, and there is nothing better to replace it.
Less ammo carrying capacity too. All reasons are why the M16 was adopted which is still a very reliable platform today. If the goal is to match peer threat modern body armor, then I think a logistically better and economic decision is to modernize the AR-10 platform. Contractors won't have to retool, and units won't have to retrain or relearn the weapon system. Either way, I still think that for the reasons above, it would be impractical to put it in the hands of every infantryman, but rather limited adoption for DMRs.
100 years ago the US Army tested the prototype Garand which was in .276 Pederson...which is surprisingly similar to the Fury. Amazing that something 'new' is just an admission that mistakes were made in the distant past. Nothing new under the sun indeed.
Yes, as a former teenage gun nut in the 80s, and now still a casual fan, I see nothing but rehash of old designs and calibers. Sure there's been a few innovations here and there,but no matter how many rails amd accessories you put on an AR, it's still a near 60 year old rifle.
I seriously doubt the 277 Fury will go anywhere except maybe as a sniper round. As for infantry, it will fail for the same reasons the M-14 failed. Some people at the top forgot the lessons of Vietnam.
I have the preliminary ballistics data on the US Army's GPR (General Purpose Round). It is the same projectile design as the EPR in 5.56 and 7.62 NATO. Out of the M7 it should be around 3100 ft/s at the muzzle. Considering what we saw from M855A1 and M80A1 EPR we can expect exceptionally violent if not explosive levels of performance with near instant jacket separation in a ballistic medium with the steel penetrator and copper base slug both tumbling. The steel penetrator should have a slight curve upward in its track with the copper slug having a much more pronounced downward track. It should be a 140 grain projectile with a muzzle velocity of 3000 - 3100 ft/s from the M7 Rifle, and a chamber pressure above 80,000 PSI (which is insane). Estimated G1 BC of 0.508 which makes it significantly ballistically better than Mk 262 Mod 1 in 5.56 and M08A1 EPR in 7.62 NATO, it puts it just slightly above the 7.62 NATO Mk316 Mod 0 Special Ball Long Range in terms of BC. Barrier penetration expected as penetrating 3/8 inch mild steel at 800 - 850 meters. Edit: Additional ballistics information and grammatical corrections.
@@borkwoof696 I had to browse a TON of info on the web then compare it to the official declassified docs such as munition directories (DODIC), the WEG (world equipment guide), and ballistic calculators to approximate the performance of such a round. This is why I said its PRELIMINARY info.
Definitely a violent and capable cartridge. Hopefully we still have enough guys to be able to carry the M7 since Biden purged the military of all "maga extremists". That's code for getting rid of all the people who love their country and don't color their hair with Kool aid".
Fantastic review and not mentioned within the video (unless I missed it my apologies) is that it only has a 13 inch barrel (per Sig's website at least) so to get those speeds out of a 13 inch barrel is really quite incredible. Awesome content as always, keep it up.
Its 13" but I think the design itself includes suppresor which ads few inches and gets you the velocity it has. Not sure thou, I think I heard it somewhere
They use fast burning powder and utterly mental pressures to get the speed. Which is also why the cases are partly made of stainless steel, a fully brass case would not be able to handle the stress.
Yea just imagine if they made a 20" or even a 25" barrel for it. US: hey so we got this neat new gun, wanna see the ballistics? [Insert non american country here]: sure M7 with 25" barrel: fires a 113 grain bullet at mach fuck [Inser non american country here]: *automatically becomes US ally*
@@RandomIowanGuyTotally. It’s one of those, “All US non allies have left the chat….” 🤣🤣🤣 As an American, I love this country. I’m so happy our military is the best on the planet that we go by the doctrine of overmatch. This round and the rifle it’s coming from over matches everyone and will likely be the new M1 grand, which perhaps was the finest weapon designed in the history of warfare. (Per Patton.) This could be our new M1 grand if that makes sense.
"That'll pop up right here" I don't know how many times you've said that and equally how many times it hasn't happened and I'm pretty confident Micah just does it out of pettiness.
I got some dad advice for you. That's something that I've told family and friends and really f****** tough times, " I love you whether you like it or not! " always know there's somebody you can call , text, or write. You got more love out there than you believe you do. And I believe you have a reason to be here . Keep fighting we love you
Except Sig contracts labor and manufacturing to places like India, producing weak parts that fail like the firing pin on P365. I'd trust HK over Sig any day.
@@jbob2447 Sig Sauer is a brand name used by two sister companies based in Germany and the USA. The company, originally based in Germany, was founded in 1976 from a partnership between two other arms companies - Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (SIG) and J.P. Sauer & Sohn of Germany. got this from google
A huge reason for this round is with super high pressure is it’s a drag racer and gives velocity out of shorter barrels ( down to 8”) Im amazed how many people are unaware that high pressure is for various special forces and infantry to get velocity out of short barrels …. In the short barrel arena it is light years ahead of all previous rounds … It was the main purpose for this round , high velocity from short barrels … standard pressure rounds are near useless out of short barrels
there just virtue signaling there beleifs, i personally dont care for what random guntubers think on political and social issues. they shoupd keep to what they know best, firearms.
I'm NOT a fucking pansy, but really? 🤔 PLA in the Pacific? Though I get the DOUBLE REFERENCE, very poor taste. Positively love reviews on the weapons featured. JUST SAYING 🤔.
We produce the projectile and the stainless steel cap on the end of the shell for the primer at my place of employment. We have very tight and strict tolerances for them. Its a quite impressive round
@@SoloRenegade That plate is pretty thick and tough. You might be right, but I have read lvl 4 does mighty good against broken bones from handgun calibers
'Garand thumb'... I love it. Had them in HS ROTC and getting a nice blood blister under your right thumb was a rite of passage. My own is a 1951 USMC issue WW II parts gun and will never part with it. Great video, too BTW.
well its basically a very spicy 270 Winchester short magnum. so for deer sized game id imagine itd be quite effective. prolly pretty good on the 2 legged deer sized game as well
More like a watered down 270 win. I was expecting better velocity with that 80k psi ammo as this is supposed to give 270 performance out of a 13in gun. For comparison a 270 can send a 110gr at nearly 3500fps.
1: Norwegian Pattern Pants 👌 2: Such an awesome round and would have loved to try it out myself 3: Would love to see you test the 7.5FK Brno Pistol round
They've now edited out about 10 video frames within the youtube interface itself removing the guy running when the camera panned slightly to the right. Now the only indicator of the presence of a human being being downrange is the shadow of said person adjusting what I believe to be a slo-motion camera, and their right hand
I don't understand the hype my old 270 Winchester cartridge with 130 grain travels at about 3,060 and it's easy to get a barrel kit for your XCR for almost 20 years
@GarandThumb so they updated the appendix of the gov. ammunition selection assessment paperwork. Some legend at army ordinance built his own .276 Penderson cases and ammo with modern case, powder, and ammo tech and his rounds consistently outperformed the .277 fury in ballistics, accuracy, and penetration with a max psi between 55-60k vs the .277s 80-90K psi. Invented in 1923 still showing the young kids how its done.
@@gunguru7020 I believe it was the same test length barrel. The appendix update was over a year ago and I am trying to find it so I can directly link the document number and page number.
The.276 Pederson came full circle and was resurrected as the .277 Fury with better powder and better bullet construction! The bullet smiths in 1923 saw the ballistic performance that was possible and is now realized in the .277 Fury. What a great round!
Yes, but you could only get 2600fps out of the old 276 Peterson and its a SR25/Ar10 size case length cartridge with its 125gr projectile. The bullet is usually shorter and less areodynamic and doesnt do well at longer ranges but its not bad for most ranges. 276 Peterson does require a longer heavier barrel to be able to achieve its velocity. The 6.8/.277 SIG Fury round Also has a maximum overall length of 2.83 inches. This means it Also, will load and feed from any 7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester) detachable-box magazine. Its moving a slightly lighter 113 grain bullet at almost 3100fps in full auto. Its also a more modern bullet that is longer nd sleeker and higher BC and has better wind bucking ability at longer ranges. Unfortunately these cant be made to fit in the older longer cases like the 308 and the 276 Peterson. It would be so far back in the case it would be horribly inefficient. That is why all these newer cartridge designs have shorter, fatter cases, and longer slippery bullets doing about the same speed as cartridges of older times. Of course they also increased the case pressure pretty massively on the new steel base/brass sidewalled case to be able to do this in such a short package with a short barrel. Just look at todays cartridges and stand them next to a comparable one of 50-100 yrs ago and you can see it. Today we can get an off the shelf, 6mm ARC, Ar15/M4 with its smaller shorter rifle, much lighter weight to carry, and a much shorter 2.26" max OAL length 6mm arc round, and it can shoot a 103-108 grain at 2800 fps. The weight savings of ammo and rifle alone would be quite huge today. That is what helps armies move as we know via 5.56 all these years. Yes, the Peterson was a fine Ar10/Sr25 2.8" ish length round, but was never adopted in its day 100 yrs ago sadly.
When testing armor, you should have a blunt force trauma sensor behind the armor to identify the actual force applied from the round. Be sure to use new armor and know ahead of time the round will not fully penetrate. I’d be curious to see just how much blunt force someone goes through!
@@DoraTheMFDestroya "this is very false" state your scientific and mathematical evidence. Without penetration, the impact energy is similar to the energy when fired. The guy will be in pain, but will survive. Most damage is caused by the behavior inside the body. But without penetration, that damage does not occur.
@SoloRenegade the issue is with speed of the acceleration verses the speed of deceleration. It takes time to accelerate the bullet from the gun barrel. The bullet decelerates in a fraction of the time it takes to accelerate. The speed of the energy dump is what causes the damage. It's the reason we have airbags in cars. The airbag increases the amount of time over which your head decelerates. It's the same reason they have crumple zones in cars now. It's to extend the time over which the energy is transfered into the human body. Hope this helps!
Solid copper (green agenda) will be used as training ammo. Has much less pressure to reduce wear on barrel. Actual combat ammo will vary. The anti armor tip will be different from current AP relying only on hard metals such as Tungsten. The optic allows switching ammo with separate zero for each type of ammo.
@@ChrisHuppey rest assured, they will train the "special tip" but currently the information is classified. So not many will get their hands on it, until NTC I assume. Don't ask. All I know is that it's classified, and wasn't told any further
That "while" was defeating jungle fatigues and towels and drapes. 😂 now we might have to deal with waves of massproduced fully armored runts in the bushes.@@Clockwork0nions
@@aaronschocke2147This rifle is literally designed to fight dudes in the mountains of Afghanistan. It was chosen before any lessons were drawn from Ukraine. Both the weapon and ammo are too heavy. And as seen in the video, modern armor still stops it. Everyone in service will hate it.
the fact that the photo didn't pop up as he put his hand there was gold
Micah playing jokes all day
@@GarandThumb He needs a raise
@@GarandThumb but it was funny af tho lol he needs a raise lol
micah needs to be sacked
@@adderalandy1781 Sacked in the sack by women who are stacked?
No lab coat? data inconclusive
And bring back the cool 80s science intro!
😂
Must resolve.
It was laundry day so please excuse this oversight.
He's trying to be more serious...no really...serious
I love how Mike will be like, "Micha will put an image up here."
And Micha is like "the fuck I will."
micha
@@ifalone micah
@@Vsm_integra mikae
There was a close up shot of the two a few moments earlier. I think its just continuity errors when that happens, because he's covering any editing bases while they're all the way out at the range.
NO ONE TELLS DJ REQUEST WHAT TO PLAY! - The Goods ruclips.net/video/fWvwOcBVpSA/видео.htmlsi=CdDTFeO3VHOWvmX8
Blew his lung out at 10:05 ... approaching the power of the legendary 9mm.
Someone better call Joe 😂
With the 277 fury or 6.8, the recoil actually removed MY lung.
I’d say possibly reaching the power of the legendary 2mm pinfire.
@@ThuggyMFc or the kolibri
I laughed way too hard at this comment.
NATO: Okay we finally all switched to 5.56 now we're all standardized!
U.S. Army: Good news everyone!
USA military: "Who wants good news? Everyone?.... Good news everyone!"
This comment format is getting really old, kids.
Mandatory good news! And it come with PT belt reflection for night safety
U.S. Army: We basically remade .280 British
Don't worry the m4 will not die so easily
The fact that this is the civilian version of the cartridge and its zipping down that barrel at about 3100fps and cracking ribs behind lvl 4 plates with just a solid copper 113gr projectile is pretty wild. I could just imagine what the heavier military projectiles are gonna do with the higher pressured ammo 😮
Wear out barrels lol
@@12ealDealOfficialthe program requires a barrel life of 9k rounds. SIG Sauers barrel for the m7 is 10k for the military standard
@@12ealDealOfficial tfw no brain
Are civilian rounds not generally higher pressure and velocity because they're not required to perform in as adverse a set of conditions? Commerical .308s, for example, typically run higher, often 25% higher, PSIs. I coincidentally listened to a Hornady podcast episode on .308 this morning.
You are right on the bullet construction though TSX is a hunting projectile, they're just copper with no lead. Militaries often use differently constructed bullets, steel core for armour piercing
The 6.8 fury is good . But if every soldier in our military,can't have it then it's worthless. Plus it's not way better than 308. The 120 gr in 308 could do the same thing if loaded correctly
If you've ever started a range day with a flinch, go ahead and hit that subscribe button.
I cry every time
@@GarandThumb I had a bad bad flinch to begin my range trip yesterday. Still thinking about it lol
Started with a squib once... Definitely flinched.
@@GarandThumb
Doing the Lord's work by bringing Trans Bullets to God
@@GarandThumbMe too man, me too.
I don’t even go to the range, I just cry a lot.
6:37
“Smells weird, it’s probably cancer.”
Military Industrial Complex:
”Bullet proof cancer.”
"Lvl 5 plates dropping soon" - Lockheed Martin
Just skip level 5-20 and go straight to power armor. We all see where this is going.
@@magnanimus9692annexing Canada?
@@blue4629they would welcome it at this point
They're going to start issuing personal one man tanks that transformer into little Jets and helicopters.😂😂😂
@@blue4629 "Little America is ours. But let's face it, it always has been".
"Everyone ran to tell their friends"
That absolutely got me.
Absolute gold!
Brandishing in Chuck E Cheese FTW
Charlie has elevated the concept of "out of pocket" to an art form
Primary arms has everything he said. Can't buy a loving father, sadly.
You don’t rent yours?
They'll be in stock soon
You got to be your own.
If they had milk, maybe dad never would've had to step out to grab some at 10 pm...
@@FrMehmanI've heard of renting spinning rims, but renting a dad takes the cake as the most hood thing ever!
Brandon Herrera did a video a while back about a 3D printed suppressor that took three mags back to back from an m4 and he immediately held the weapon by the suppressor. It was still cool to the touch.
I can’t find that video anymore, I remember watching it but can’t find it. Any idea what happened to it?
@JustAnotherYTer RUclips probably removed it. That's what I'd put my money on. RUclips sucks these days.. 15 years ago it was great.
@@kdcustoms1272what do you mean? They’re obviously the last bastion of free speech… *checks notes*… back in 2015!
I remember this
Last time I was this early, the US persuaded all NATO allies to adapt 5,56x45 and 7,62x51
Зачем? 5.56 имеет больше плюсов нежели новый калибр,хотя бы в том что боевые действия показали чем больше носимый боекомплект солдата тем больше шансов выиграть бой.
Declined 280 brit, and similar then they basically went back to the same idea 50 years later
@@WayStedYoumuch better technology now. It makes sense.
@@WayStedYou if you think this anywhere close to the British 280 then you don't understand guns
Why didn't you stop them adopting that pos tinker toy round?
Good work micheal 0:40
Yeah
It was a joke. You have failed.
They probably did it for this comment
@@chrismeandyou Narrator: "It wasnt a joke"
@@chrismeandyou He was probably joking as well..
So a 113 grain copper bullet out of a 13” barrel going at 3050fps drops only 1 mil at 500 yards? That’s just mind blowing. Apparently it does blow minds out of the back of the head very well too.
I shoot the Barns 130 TTSX in 308. Out of a 16” barrel it’s right at 3000fps and it’s just unbelievable on game.
The mind blowing impact of it would definitely be my last thought.
You would think rather than go to a new caliber just improve current calibers with new propellant and projectiles like you did.
@@stevenhall2408 improvements aren’t sexy. New stuff is. You’re right though.
@@stevenhall2408 They can't, this improvement is because old guns can't handle them. Even guns being made brand new are too weak. Sorry, they are. We've had metals capable of handling much higher pressure for decades but that would require new designs for this higher pressure. Thats why this new rifle is revolutionary: its the first rifle being made for a modern upgraded chamber pressure.
Do you handload the TTSX, if so what powder? I was thinking of developing a lighter load for my 308 with an 18-inch barrel.
The cavity damage that 277 round does. Ridiculously lethal. That combustion right after the bullet punctures the gel and seems to just explode inside is crazy. A lot of kinetic energy that round is carrying.
ive never seen anything like it, seems like it would explode your insides
In the summer of 2007, i waa leading my fire team down a street pushing north of my platoon in a town south of baghdad. We were pushing toward a building on the end of the street to take a couple of AT4s on the roof. We had been in a series of skirnishes with fighters, including armed trucks, and needed AT posted.
We ran past an occupies building with 2 guys + AKs. One opened fire as i ran past. He hit me with 2 rounds. One hit my side plate, crimpling it and breaking 2 ribs. Round number 2 hit my hip, breaking bone and dropping me.
I was very fortunate to be armored against that threat, because if that hadnt stopped the first round, I'd be dead.
Was your team able to find the guy who did it and return the favor?
Glad you made it back!!!
@@snapdragon6601
Yeah we yeeted a couple of frags in there. I was pushed to the cash and then to Germany. I didn't get back my platoon until almost Christmas. By the time I got back, most of our first squad had been sent home, along with one of track crews.
That was one hell of a year
Thank you....ABN 75
Glad you’re still with us
Micah you failed us 0:40
Yeah wtf
Where the EPM round? 😢😢😢
That's not a fail. Total win, Micah.
Charles failed us in not delivering a dumb and dumber whack.
Just a test to make sure we're still watching 40 seconds in...
"Gawdamn Micah"
~ Every RDR2 player, at some point
This channel has kind of become the new "Future Weapons"
This show was my childhood
There is only one Future Weapons. RIP
Just another chapter in his story...
Future forgotten weapons.
Garand Thumb is great but he can’t be compared to Future Weapons. No tactical whispering, no bald seal, no use of 2000s electronical music, no cool sound effects...
Your regular grunt on a standard loadout with an M4 and 210 rounds of ammo comes in at around 75 to 90 pounds.
With the M7, a soldier is expected to carry about 5 pounds of extra weight with only 140 rounds of ammo.
5 pounds might not be much but try carrying over 90 pounds of gear for hours on end and you have less rounds to use.
I hope this goes well.
Hell, in RVN with a M16a1 I carried 300 rounds and 4 frags along with all my other crap.
That's why the Military should just look at 6mm MAX. We need a round with more power, but not at the cost of 70 less rounds. And 6mm MAX is only slightly heavier, and is ballistically superior to 5.56 in every way!
I was thinking the same thing. Smells like a Puzzle Palace decision made with zero input from the field.
Bigger squad size to compensate?
"Micah will pop up a little photo of right here..."
(Leaves GT hangin')
“The good news is the armor stopped the bullet, the bad news is your organs are still damaged due to physics”
Veteran: Is that service connected???
VA: NO…
Almost like there is a reason we don't use bare plates in the field and have trauma plate backers.
Welp, all those energy got to go somewhere right?
Not how that works lol. Unless the round is barely being stopped the backface deformation should be minimal, and absent any super huge BFD the worst you’ll have is a bruise. Remember Newton’s third law, it’s only the same force as the recoil, the only reason the bullet kills is because of the surface area.
Edit: nevermind just saw the part in the vid. still, a trauma pad would mitigate most of that.
@@jonathanpfeffer3716yeah well, of course you also have to account for the variations in the human body. Everyone will take the shock a bit differently and the context can make a difference too. Those dummies are only a facsimile meant to be a close, but not perfect, representative of an average human subject, too. Depending on a person and their build, even with the trauma plate behind it, there will be a range of performance outcomes depending on where someone is hit and other factors like their size and physique. One guy might get a busted rib despite a plate and vest to absorb and slow the projectile down, another guy might not even get a bruise. It’s not like fricking video games where it’s a fixed value that soaks up a certain amount of damage. Ballistics comparisons are helpful, but real life is always more messy and unpredictable. That’s part of the reason why we don’t aim to create armor that protects our soldiers from every conceivable caliber or combat conditions. We simply make armor that’s just good enough.
It might not totally stop you from being injured, but the lives they save still speak for themselves. Even back before body armor became standard military equipment, firearms were still plenty lethal, and still more soldiers died from injuries after battles than they did from fatal wounds. Alongside the development of modern medical science making it much easier to help soldiers who do sustain injury, body armor saves many lives just by being good enough to prevent and mitigate injuries to a degree that people don’t instantly die and have much better chance of surviving to receive care for any injuries they do sustain than they would otherwise. Coming at it from this perspective is necessary too, when you consider that there has to be a balance between the weight, protective capacity, cost, and availability of the armor we choose to deploy. For what it does, modern armor is truly amazing.
The same logic applies to their process for developing these next generation weapons. Their goal isn’t to make the most powerful or perfect weapons platforms, it’s to make one’s that will reliably do what work we need them to do while also fitting into our overall strategic designs and capacities, which is why they have so many constraints on the design. They already know exactly what they want to use them for and how they’d like them to be implemented, and the whole point of the design contest process is to determine it’s feasibility and value, in addition to evaluating different designs to find a suitable candidate worth the cost.
'everybody ran to tell their friends' fucking got me rolling
I read this before i heard the joke 😂and was like what
Early on, I pressured Mike to keep Charlie in the mix despite the comments section. I’ve never felt so vindicated.
I popped for that.
Small suggestion: When shooting armor at close range I'd do it from behind cover. I shot a chunk of steel plate like that once with .308 and had a ring-shaped piece of jacket fly back, penetrate three inches into my leg and come to a rest right up against my femoral artery. Yes I can send proof if you want.
I'd be genuinely interested to see that, while I have used firearms before, I've never seen an injury from ricochet. It'd be good educational material.
@@curtisevans8413 I'll find a place to put the photos where you can click and see them, and I'll put the link here. One reason it happened is the steel was 1/2" thick unhardened mild steel. If the steel target is hardened the bullet is a lot more likely to just splatter outward, though nothing is 100 percent. With soft mild steel the slug penetrated partway through and created that ring-shaped piece of jacket that could bounce back.
Not the only time I had that happen either. Have you seen the video of the guy shooting a .50 at steel, and having a ricochet come back and knock his earmuffs off? I had that happen too. I had a Big Boar Grizzly and a 4" thick chunk of steel. I let somebody else shoot it at around 100' with an AP round, and the steel penetrator flew back and skipped off the ground right in between us and dinged my bumper. So in general, I'm just against shooting steel unless it's a nice long ways away.
While I agree it's a good idea to do it in a safer manner, shooting steel is much different than shooting ceramic or kevlar. Steel bounces bullets off, ceramic and kevlar catch projectiles. It's not impossible for it to ricochet but it's a lot less likely than steel.
this is Ceramic, steel isnt and should not be used for body armor becasue of the spall it generates.
"but my side plates are uncomfortable!" brother, so is getting holepunched at 3000 fps.
lol I think id rather be dead then know what id feel like after getting hit with that round and having all my ribs implode behind the body armor.
@@robsp32 either way it's gonna hurt before you die.
Rather have the armor and have a chance vs nothing.
You'd still die from internal hemorrhaging.
"Smells weird, probably cancer"; sir you did not have to make me laugh so violently with this one liner.
@@dcptivnah, it's about how you handle it.
@@dcptivdon’t be a Debbie downer
It wasn't even that funny dude. Relax
Only in the state of California
@@dcptivit’s also just straight up facts because not everything that’s manufactured is safe to inhale/consume
"5.56 doesn't work, we need something bigger."
Sounds like the FBI after the Miami shootout.
And they already declined 280 british and similar rounds and then went back to basically the same thing will these years later after forcing people to use 5.56
5.56 works they never said it doesn't, but 6.8 has more firepower with controllable recoil. Stagnating is never good.
@@thesupreme8062why upend the entire arsenal with new proprietary rifles and ammunition when there's plenty of SR25/ KAC M110 pattern rifles with pallets of ammunition capable to 1000yds already in storage? Makes way more sense from a logistics standpoint to issue AR10 pattern rifles with modern magazines and optics 🤷♂️
How often is the US military fighting against Lvl4 armor? China and Russia aren't using special plates, rifles or ammo.
@@WayStedYouit is not the same as the British 280. It is actually significantly more powerful
@@SuspiciousGanymede The point being was to have every soldier engage at longer rangeswith more firepower than 5.56 like Afghanistan showed. I think that's why they want this. Ofc military somehow decides this rifle should be a close range beast too. . . I think they will make a carbine version with the round just like m16 later spawned the m4 which replaced the former and making submachine guns almost completely wiped out. They already have a smaller MCX platform they can use the round on.
It is a killer rifle my only concern would be barrel life. The trade off for that super hot smokin fast round is that the barrel is definitely going to be wearing out really fast.
Yeah, kind of like a .270.
I think 1500 rounds..
"Impact!"
*pause* [Tink]
Satisfying every single time.
That shot at 9:28
Reminder: This is CIVILIAN GRADE .277 Fury with relatively medium sized SOLID COPPER bullet.
I dont wanna imagine the faster and heavier Mil-Grade version gonna do
Right almost war crimes proformance...i love America
This has the steel base, the pressure should be the same, only the projectiles different.
fucking judge dread rounds
People always think the military runs gear and ammo that is so much superior to what civilians can get their hand on when this couldn't be further from the truth. The fact is the military will often select budget friendly equipment since they have to mass produce it.
I say this as veteran who is now a civilian competition shooter. The custom rifles people use, and the ammo they reload are so much more advanced than anything I ever used while active duty. This round is relatively new, but once more civilians get their hands on it, begin tinkering with it figuring out the best loads, it will be far greater than what the military provides. Point being, this round is the exact round the military will likely issue.
@@agonzalez8924 I thought the military .277 was a steel and brass hybrid casing? This is fundamentally different than the civilian rounds, no? I've heard that's how they can achieve upwards of 80-100k psi, which is devastating compared to 60k psi
Been following you guys for awhile now and seeing this video pop up on MSN (Microsoft Start News Page) this morning at work is awesome!
nice one micah 0:40
Thank you ☺️
@@micahmayfieldhow many subs to oil up?
10:01, that ricochet was nuts.
Or the dude down range at 10:24
Yikes.. yeah I keep thinking in some of these videos that one day something's gonna go terribly wrong
@@illegalalien4323you may be seeing a bone but there was 100% a nasty ricochet. Put it in .5 playback speed and you can hear it very clearly.
Read the blog that probably made this rifle happen! iamgermane.blogspot.com/2013/10/replace-m-4m-16-rifle-now.html
@@PureRushXevus people were raising all kinds of hell about it on other social media I'm sure the GT team is aware of this f up lol. Hopefully we see nothing like this again.
You what's kind of interesting when Army was looking for a new rifle to replace the M1903. They settled on the M1 in .276 Peterson, they really liked the .276 but MacArthur convinced the military to go with 30-06 because they had so much of it. Fast forward today they choose a rifle in .277.
Valid
Except the .276 Pedersen was loaded with a .284 bullet. .276 was the bore diameter.
Very interesting...so did MacArthur have a head for numbers and was saving dollars in his head?Was the .276 Pedersen more effective in killing the enemy?Would they have changed the LMG'S into .276??I have questions!!
@@wirelessone2986 It would have had a little less recoil, and therefore it would have been a little easier for the average infantryman to hit targets with, but otherwise wouldn't have been any more effective. The only reason .276 Pedersen even existed was because there were no semi-auto rifles suitable for military use that could handle .30-06. The second that it became clear that the Garand could handle .30-06 without a problem, at the cost of only two rounds of magazine capacity, the .276 was dead.
@jic1 Bravo thank you brutha...your description made sense and with the garand able to easily handle .30 06....Wow...it was going to hit the soldiers of the axis powers solidly.
Great video! The way the rounds hit those plates is insane...Insane amount of energy!
BC = Ballistic coefficient btw for anyone wondering. Basically a float value based on the shape of the round and its ability to slice through the air / minimize air resistance.
Calculated by Mass / (drag coefficient x cross sectional area)
What does he mean when he says epm projectile? I know it's the difference between the rounds but what exactly is the difference?
@@gingergoat405 That i actually don't know. I'll have to educate myself on that. I'll let you know what i find.
@astropolski not a problem I'll get on the research myself. :)
🤓 (thanks)
@@gingergoat405 It is a M855A1 type round but made for this new caliber.
Looks great, gonna get the SCAR treatment
Might be too heavy, but i doubt the soldiers are going to complain much considering the big firepower increase @simonx760
I mean, it is basically just a less reliable, heavier SCAR made 20 years too late, so that makes sense.
It’s already being fielded by the 101st and is getting very positive feedback
whats the scar treatment?
@@rednecksniper4715 positive feedback, but not combat feedback. time will tell though.
Closest Charlie has ever come to actually saying "Sonoran Desert Industries," and somehow one of the most offensive attempts 😂
Sonoran Desert Institute
@@wisemankugelmemicus1701hahaa autocorrect got me good and hard on that one.
Snorin Dorin Pro sti tute
Watching it travel through the gel is completely frightening... I love it!
This rifle will be perfect for a twenty year battle in the mountains of Afghanistan.
Just like the Maginot Line, thanks big army!
@@elterga6224for sure, because infantry are all kitted out exclusively with 50 cals like… or maybe weapon designation is determined based on the expected threats. Just because something is adopted doesn’t mean it’s immediately the favorite 😜
@@elterga6224you still have the GWOT mentality where shitting out 1000’s of rounds of 5.56 solved problems. We’re shifting away from fighting insurgents and unconventional warfare where volume of fire was priority over accuracy. This platform and round were clearly made with accuracy as the forefront over volume of fire. Add the fancy scope that automatically adjust itself, and you have a very effective platform in the hands of trained individuals. Once these get fielded, it’s up to the army to implement effective training so our guys and gals in OCP know how to use this correctly and effectively. Training will be where the real issue will lie and if the army can successfully implement things.
@@gabetaylor28 I don't want to be disrespectful or sound like an ass, but did you serve?
My time spent in the Marines, I can tell you with 100% certainty that volume of fire is more effective than trying to make every troop into a standalone "sniper". We got good training, but that doesn't make everyone an expert on the range. A vast majority of troops don't score expert with 5.56 and I wouldn't expect them to with this caliber either and that's under very controlled conditions.
I have a number of grievances with this caliber as standard issue. 1. Weight 2. Recoil control 3. Ammunition capacity (this ties in with weight obviously) 4. manual of arms.
The added weight of this round is going to suckkk. a few pounds extra makes a big difference. The recoil of this caliber is significantly more than 5.56, particularly for those troops who only qual a few times a year and that's it and taking follow up shots with this will be slower. Ammo capacity will be much more limited than 5.56 and I don't see troops focusing on accuracy as being as effective as volume of fire. The manual of arms for this weapon system will be similar in some ways to an M16/M4 but with some key differences, particularly in gas system operations and proprietary systems built into the gun by the manufacturer.
Also, most service members in all branches cant shoot for shit honestly. I thought I was pretty good scoring expert everytime during quals but once I did some training in the private sector, I realized I was pretty average with the skills I had at that time.
@@gabetaylor28volume of fire is not a counter insurgency tactic, at all. Volume of fire is vastly more applicable to a near pear conflict, you have it backwards essentially. Larger, heavier hitting rounds would have been more applicable to the golden age of SOF (1993-2021) which we’re coming out of now. If anything 5.56 is more applicable now then it was 15 years ago. This cartridge is a day late and a dollar short
Love it when Mike says “Micah will pop up (blank) here”.
And then he just doesn’t do it!
That first round recoil anticipation at the beginning was insane
Now where all the "too much recoil" gang at 😂
First I want to thank for the video. It was excellent and extremely informative. Now with that said, it is my very personal opinion that the M7 will go the way of the M14. I have no doubt this gun will be deployed and it will have a longer life than the M14 as a combat weapon, [but] in time it will be replaced as the basic battle rifle by something chambered in 6mm ARC or similar cartridge. There are numerous reasons but let’s talk about just four.
a. Weight. The gun with a basic loadout of ammunition is considerably heavier than an M4 with a loadout of 5.56 ammo. Weight will be the single biggest reason for a change.
b. Barrel life. You mentioned 10,000 rds as the expected barrel life for the M7. You were in the military, and you know that it will take no time at all to fire 10,000 rds in combat. You talked about 2.5 MOA for this gun. If 2.5 MOA is all that is required with a fresh barrel, how bad do you think that MOA will be at 5,000 rds let alone at 10,000 rds? Once that barrel gets past about 3,000 rds with an 80,000 psi chamber pressure the gun is going to spray bullets all over the place especially past 100 meters. You and your crew are professional firearms users. Think about a basic troop. How well do you believe a basic infantryman will handle this gun with a burned out barrel over 100 meters?
c. This gun is exclusive to Sig Sauer for both the gun itself and the ammunition. There is one source for gun, ammo, and parts. Does that sound like a good idea for a weapon you need accepted by NATO and you may need large quantities of quickly?
d. This gun and the 6.8x51 cartridge were marketed and sold to the Government as something the military needed to defeat “advanced” body armor. While I am not a combat veteran, I do have an extensive background with the Army, and I can tell you that the decisions to go with the M7 and the 6.8x51 cartridge were not made by Soldiers and Marines that would have to actually carry and use it in combat. In the words of Clint Smith, “Body armor is only good if the person shooting at you can hit it.” Where are most injuries occurring on a combatant? They are occurring on the extremities, e.g. the arms, legs, and areas not covered by body armor. Look at your own results at trying to penetrate Class IV body armor. You said it in the video that “armor piercing rounds would be needed to penetrate Class IV body armor. Well, if I need armor piercing rounds anyway, I can get that in 7.62x51mm, 5.56x45mm, and definitely in 6x38mm (6mm ARC). All of which don’t have the issues of the 6.8x51mm cartridge.
Bottom line, the military does need a cartridge with greater lethality than is currently offered by the 5.56x45 cartridge past 300 meters. They learned that lesson over the twenty plus years we were in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria, but do they really need a cartridge with 80,000 psi chamber pressure and all the issues those pressures cause? I personally don’t think so, especially if you still need an armor piercing projectile. The U.S. military already has a cartridge in inventory that will do the job, the 7.62x51 and it doesn’t have anything close to the 6.8x51 in barrel burnout.
I personally believe the 6mm ARC or a comparable cartridge that can use the AR15/M4 framework will be the new battle cartridge, but that is a whole video by itself. I will mention a couple of reasons why I think the 6 ARC will be the new cartridge. First, Special Operations Command (SOCOM) requested the cartridge from Hornady and they are using it. The 2nd reason I think it will be the new cartridge is, Hornady hasn’t released license to allow others to make it, just like Sig hasn’t released license for the .277 Fury.
Again, thank you and your sponsors for making this video. It was extremely informative.
The 277 Fury is in hold right now pending more durability testing of the rifles. Some of the brass does not like it because it is too much like the M-14 story - ammo too powerful and heavy which makes the rifle heavy. It might replace the 7.62 round but not the 5.56, but it's anyone's guess as to what the brass will decide.
Honestly, good. The lessons in on-person logistics are too important to have lost.
Well...as an Old Fart 👴 Veteran...
I think they oughta just leave " Well Enough " Alone...!
I wasn't a Fan when they switched from the .45 caliber 1911 to the NATO 9mm...
( guess they forgot " Why " the .45 1911 was adopted...!?? 🙄 ) ,
Not to mention , going from the .30 - 06 to the .308 / 7.62 x 51mm...n the M - 16 5.56mm ..
Thank God they had the Good Sense ta keep Mr. Brownings' " MA Duce " .50 caliber
@@nelsonlanglois9104 the 45 ACP was invented as a replacement to the Colt 45 which was adopted because it could put cavalry horses down. The DOD switched to 9 mm for ammo commonality within NATO. The M-14 was a failure in Vietnam and lessons were learned from that failure, which resulted in the adoption of the M-16. The 50 MBG "Ma Deuce" is still in service because it does not have to be carried around by an infantry grunt, and there is nothing better to replace it.
@@nelsonlanglois9104the 45 is far too out dated
Less ammo carrying capacity too. All reasons are why the M16 was adopted which is still a very reliable platform today. If the goal is to match peer threat modern body armor, then I think a logistically better and economic decision is to modernize the AR-10 platform. Contractors won't have to retool, and units won't have to retrain or relearn the weapon system. Either way, I still think that for the reasons above, it would be impractical to put it in the hands of every infantryman, but rather limited adoption for DMRs.
100 years ago the US Army tested the prototype Garand which was in .276 Pederson...which is surprisingly similar to the Fury. Amazing that something 'new' is just an admission that mistakes were made in the distant past. Nothing new under the sun indeed.
Yes, as a former teenage gun nut in the 80s, and now still a casual fan, I see nothing but rehash of old designs and calibers. Sure there's been a few innovations here and there,but no matter how many rails amd accessories you put on an AR, it's still a near 60 year old rifle.
I seriously doubt the 277 Fury will go anywhere except maybe as a sniper round. As for infantry, it will fail for the same reasons the M-14 failed. Some people at the top forgot the lessons of Vietnam.
@@PassivePortfolios Viet what? All they know is whoever developed this rifle gave them a vacation in Hawaii, so they got the contract
@@SlearBlaneheart Corruption at the DOD?! Retired generals as lobbyists?! The infantry guys should be evaluating this stuff not the REMFs.
Simply put, it’s new
Anyone else see at 10:26 the guy down range running away from the slowmo camera 😂😂
Looked like Charlie
👍Range safety
Yeah dude, I saw that too. I know the cam has to start recording RIGHT before the shot so they don't have a 37 TB file but that was WAY too close.
They could have used an acoustic trigger or a least a long wire.
I mean, they did say they were going to be testing it on Charlie 1:00
That cranial shot is like a scene out of a Tarantino movie, absolute Gold
The armor test was cool. The wearer would be having a bad day, however, they would still be around to continue having that bad day.
I dunno man. The static shock might actually kill a fella.
Thanks for making my Sunday Michael
I have the preliminary ballistics data on the US Army's GPR (General Purpose Round). It is the same projectile design as the EPR in 5.56 and 7.62 NATO. Out of the M7 it should be around 3100 ft/s at the muzzle.
Considering what we saw from M855A1 and M80A1 EPR we can expect exceptionally violent if not explosive levels of performance with near instant jacket separation in a ballistic medium with the steel penetrator and copper base slug both tumbling. The steel penetrator should have a slight curve upward in its track with the copper slug having a much more pronounced downward track.
It should be a 140 grain projectile with a muzzle velocity of 3000 - 3100 ft/s from the M7 Rifle, and a chamber pressure above 80,000 PSI (which is insane). Estimated G1 BC of 0.508 which makes it significantly ballistically better than Mk 262 Mod 1 in 5.56 and M08A1 EPR in 7.62 NATO, it puts it just slightly above the 7.62 NATO Mk316 Mod 0 Special Ball Long Range in terms of BC. Barrier penetration expected as penetrating 3/8 inch mild steel at 800 - 850 meters.
Edit: Additional ballistics information and grammatical corrections.
Where did you get that info?
TL;DR
@@borkwoof696 I had to browse a TON of info on the web then compare it to the official declassified docs such as munition directories (DODIC), the WEG (world equipment guide), and ballistic calculators to approximate the performance of such a round. This is why I said its PRELIMINARY info.
This thing is gonna recoil so hard weigh so much and eat barrels so fast it will be a bust.
Definitely a violent and capable cartridge. Hopefully we still have enough guys to be able to carry the M7 since Biden purged the military of all "maga extremists". That's code for getting rid of all the people who love their country and don't color their hair with Kool aid".
Im actually really impressed by the performance of the armour plates. Great video as always.
Charlie will never get old.
Just increasingly more unhinged.
@@MiaogisTeasand I’m here for it
His first few appearances he was trying for cringe funny and it came off as obnoxious and distracting, but lately he's been great.
That's called "dying young".
This comment has stolen his ability to age. He is now cursed to watch everyone he ever knows die around him.
Fantastic review and not mentioned within the video (unless I missed it my apologies) is that it only has a 13 inch barrel (per Sig's website at least) so to get those speeds out of a 13 inch barrel is really quite incredible. Awesome content as always, keep it up.
Its 13" but I think the design itself includes suppresor which ads few inches and gets you the velocity it has. Not sure thou, I think I heard it somewhere
They use fast burning powder and utterly mental pressures to get the speed. Which is also why the cases are partly made of stainless steel, a fully brass case would not be able to handle the stress.
Yea just imagine if they made a 20" or even a 25" barrel for it.
US: hey so we got this neat new gun, wanna see the ballistics?
[Insert non american country here]: sure
M7 with 25" barrel: fires a 113 grain bullet at mach fuck
[Inser non american country here]: *automatically becomes US ally*
@@RandomIowanGuyTotally. It’s one of those, “All US non allies have left the chat….” 🤣🤣🤣
As an American, I love this country. I’m so happy our military is the best on the planet that we go by the doctrine of overmatch.
This round and the rifle it’s coming from over matches everyone and will likely be the new M1 grand, which perhaps was the finest weapon designed in the history of warfare. (Per Patton.) This could be our new M1 grand if that makes sense.
@@nerd1000ify The price for the high pressure round is a little over $20.00 per round.
"That'll pop up right here"
I don't know how many times you've said that and equally how many times it hasn't happened and I'm pretty confident Micah just does it out of pettiness.
The narrator's asides are distracting.
7:09 - that ricochet was insane
I got some dad advice for you. That's something that I've told family and friends and really f****** tough times, " I love you whether you like it or not! " always know there's somebody you can call , text, or write. You got more love out there than you believe you do. And I believe you have a reason to be here . Keep fighting we love you
Sig Sauer has become the American version of H&K on now prioritizing LEO and Military contracts and overpricing the civilian market.
isnt sig swiss?
They are American?
Except Sig contracts labor and manufacturing to places like India, producing weak parts that fail like the firing pin on P365. I'd trust HK over Sig any day.
@@jbob2447 Sig Sauer is a brand name used by two sister companies based in Germany and the USA. The company, originally based in Germany, was founded in 1976 from a partnership between two other arms companies - Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (SIG) and J.P. Sauer & Sohn of Germany.
got this from google
@@Valentin-bn3lu originally Swiss/German yes. But the US branch became more independent in 2007. Just still under the same parent company
SOOOO Glad Charlie is back. He's one of a kind
I came for the guns , stayed for Charlie
A huge reason for this round is with super high pressure is it’s a drag racer and gives velocity out of shorter barrels ( down to 8”) Im amazed how many people are unaware that high pressure is for various special forces and infantry to get velocity out of short barrels …. In the short barrel arena it is light years ahead of all previous rounds … It was the main purpose for this round , high velocity from short barrels … standard pressure rounds are near useless out of short barrels
The cultural sensitivity on this channel is the best part!!
there just virtue signaling there beleifs, i personally dont care for what random guntubers think on political and social issues. they shoupd keep to what they know best, firearms.
Gay@@randomsnow6510
@@randomsnow6510just another thing you liberals need to be schooled on quit projecting
I'm NOT a fucking pansy, but really? 🤔 PLA in the Pacific? Though I get the DOUBLE REFERENCE, very poor taste. Positively love reviews on the weapons featured. JUST SAYING 🤔.
@@davidshort7750 Double Reference?
i feel like yall just look more shredded with every video. keeping me motivated
Just more tats
roids
Steroids will do that to you
I can’t wait to see this on Forgotten Weapons 😂
You already can see it there
@@georgerichards5369 Haha this is gonna be ditched even faster than the SCAR
Though if we do drop it I wonder what would actually replace it. 🤔🤔🤔🤔
@@hypno18sfreaking nothing bro. They’ll put in a DMR role and stick with the M4.
@@NunyaBesnas That’s their MO. I could them upgrading the M4 to the Sig Spear LT platform though. Gotta keep Sig happy 😂
We produce the projectile and the stainless steel cap on the end of the shell for the primer at my place of employment. We have very tight and strict tolerances for them. Its a quite impressive round
Armor stopped it, but now your kidneys are touching inside your body
even handgun rounds stopped by armor can break ribs.
@@SoloRenegade Level 4 does a pretty good job at preventing bone breaking from handgun rounds, so I have been told
@@mojothemigo Do you know how it does that? Must have some special layers that shock absorbs or displaces a lot of mass from teh plate itself.
@@SoloRenegade That plate is pretty thick and tough. You might be right, but I have read lvl 4 does mighty good against broken bones from handgun calibers
@@mojothemigo I only ever used level 2 and 3 AP in combat. never used level 4 personally, so I don't know much about it.
Charlie with the "gel nipple twists" peak dark humor. 👌
10:27 Charlie almost died by being down range
'Garand thumb'... I love it. Had them in HS ROTC and getting a nice blood blister under your right thumb was a rite of passage. My own is a 1951 USMC issue WW II parts gun and will never part with it. Great video, too BTW.
well its basically a very spicy 270 Winchester short magnum. so for deer sized game id imagine itd be quite effective. prolly pretty good on the 2 legged deer sized game as well
With 13" barrel. It is incredible.
Pray tell does this 2 legged deer wear body armor per chance?
More like a watered down 270 win. I was expecting better velocity with that 80k psi ammo as this is supposed to give 270 performance out of a 13in gun. For comparison a 270 can send a 110gr at nearly 3500fps.
@@Nick-sx6jmbingo! Very unimpressive velocity
@@Awootistic in some counties
3000 fps from a 13" barrel.. :O
Very much waiting for you to get your hands on one of these btw
50+ grains of pistol powder
3300 fps out of 20” barrel, maybe??
20 is king
1: Norwegian Pattern Pants 👌
2: Such an awesome round and would have loved to try it out myself
3: Would love to see you test the 7.5FK Brno Pistol round
Swedish actually
I just watched a garand thumb video from one year ago. The guy has doubled his size 💪🏻
It’s not a secret that he is on roids
I picture Charles sitting with a notebook and a beer brainstorming SDI and mantis jokes.
10:26 heads up down range cameraman!
They've now edited out about 10 video frames within the youtube interface itself removing the guy running when the camera panned slightly to the right.
Now the only indicator of the presence of a human being being downrange is the shadow of said person adjusting what I believe to be a slo-motion camera, and their right hand
Tripod.
Very unprofessional range safety violation. I am thumbing down this video (which will be a first for these guys).
When the government needs a round to defeat civilian body armor the industry doesn’t disappoint.
The .270 is back !
I don't understand the hype my old 270 Winchester cartridge with 130 grain travels at about 3,060 and it's easy to get a barrel kit for your XCR for almost 20 years
@GarandThumb so they updated the appendix of the gov. ammunition selection assessment paperwork. Some legend at army ordinance built his own .276 Penderson cases and ammo with modern case, powder, and ammo tech and his rounds consistently outperformed the .277 fury in ballistics, accuracy, and penetration with a max psi between 55-60k vs the .277s 80-90K psi. Invented in 1923 still showing the young kids how its done.
Can I have source? Because the new .277 Fury has 0.500 Ballistic Coefficient, and I don't think that's something old ammo can do
@@thedesignerblacksmith5953 German 8x57IS from WWII had a BC of .550
@@infantilepillock1687 Very cool to know that. Thank you for the info
Was the 276 Pederson fired out of a 13" barrel or was the test same/same?
@@gunguru7020 I believe it was the same test length barrel. The appendix update was over a year ago and I am trying to find it so I can directly link the document number and page number.
The.276 Pederson came full circle and was resurrected as the .277 Fury with better powder and better bullet construction! The bullet smiths in 1923 saw the ballistic performance that was possible and is now realized in the .277 Fury. What a great round!
Oohhh, nice call back.
Yes, but you could only get 2600fps out of the old 276 Peterson and its a SR25/Ar10 size case length cartridge with its 125gr projectile. The bullet is usually shorter and less areodynamic and doesnt do well at longer ranges but its not bad for most ranges. 276 Peterson does require a longer heavier barrel to be able to achieve its velocity. The 6.8/.277 SIG Fury round Also has a maximum overall length of 2.83 inches. This means it Also, will load and feed from any 7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester) detachable-box magazine. Its moving a slightly lighter 113 grain bullet at almost 3100fps in full auto. Its also a more modern bullet that is longer nd sleeker and higher BC and has better wind bucking ability at longer ranges. Unfortunately these cant be made to fit in the older longer cases like the 308 and the 276 Peterson. It would be so far back in the case it would be horribly inefficient. That is why all these newer cartridge designs have shorter, fatter cases, and longer slippery bullets doing about the same speed as cartridges of older times. Of course they also increased the case pressure pretty massively on the new steel base/brass sidewalled case to be able to do this in such a short package with a short barrel. Just look at todays cartridges and stand them next to a comparable one of 50-100 yrs ago and you can see it. Today we can get an off the shelf, 6mm ARC, Ar15/M4 with its smaller shorter rifle, much lighter weight to carry, and a much shorter 2.26" max OAL length 6mm arc round, and it can shoot a 103-108 grain at 2800 fps. The weight savings of ammo and rifle alone would be quite huge today. That is what helps armies move as we know via 5.56 all these years. Yes, the Peterson was a fine Ar10/Sr25 2.8" ish length round, but was never adopted in its day 100 yrs ago sadly.
That 10:25 mark shows why you never get complacent with safety 😂
Just came from Reddit to see it
They 100% edited it out. You cant see the person anymore
@@jurpo6yeah I was wondering what everyone was talking about. Not seeing anything
What was it originally?
@@JohnDorian-j7x a man next to a camera tripod in the cone of fire. It was egregious enough to draw a bunch of comments.
1:11 Charles you POS! 😂😂😂😂😂 🥹🥹🤣 I replayed that moment at least 10x
Lol I kept replaying the part at 08:16
When testing armor, you should have a blunt force trauma sensor behind the armor to identify the actual force applied from the round. Be sure to use new armor and know ahead of time the round will not fully penetrate. I’d be curious to see just how much blunt force someone goes through!
It's not that much. If it were that much the recoil would have to be much more severe
I suspect it would also matter where the bullet hit the armor. I wonder if there is enough energy transfer to cause heart issues due to force trauma.
@@ryantogo8359
this is very false
@@DoraTheMFDestroya "this is very false"
state your scientific and mathematical evidence.
Without penetration, the impact energy is similar to the energy when fired. The guy will be in pain, but will survive. Most damage is caused by the behavior inside the body. But without penetration, that damage does not occur.
@SoloRenegade the issue is with speed of the acceleration verses the speed of deceleration. It takes time to accelerate the bullet from the gun barrel. The bullet decelerates in a fraction of the time it takes to accelerate. The speed of the energy dump is what causes the damage. It's the reason we have airbags in cars. The airbag increases the amount of time over which your head decelerates. It's the same reason they have crumple zones in cars now. It's to extend the time over which the energy is transfered into the human body.
Hope this helps!
10:26 Downrange Charlie running for cover a split second before the shot lmao
Had thought but wasn’t sure it was him
Yeah doesn't look safe.
Guy down range running away at 10:26
Yikes.. yeah I keep thinking in some of these videos that one day something's gonna go terribly wrong
yikes
Yeah saw that too. But these mfs have brains, they know what they doin especially Mike. If you train, remember this? “🤘🏼”
@@Jrude22 They have brains, but they clearly dont use them because they shot with a dude down range.
@m0hz3 If the Swiss can put a shooting range over a highway, then anybody without epilepsy can shoot with a 30 degree safety angle.
Fed: What kind of American are you?
Patriot: The kind with .277 Fury.
Fed: Have a nice day, sir.
Charles has gotten super fit. Looking good dude
Solid copper (green agenda) will be used as training ammo. Has much less pressure to reduce wear on barrel. Actual combat ammo will vary. The anti armor tip will be different from current AP relying only on hard metals such as Tungsten.
The optic allows switching ammo with separate zero for each type of ammo.
That is like shooting 38 special and getting 357 magnum on the field.
@@ChrisHuppey rest assured, they will train the "special tip" but currently the information is classified. So not many will get their hands on it, until NTC I assume.
Don't ask. All I know is that it's classified, and wasn't told any further
Ap rounds used depleted uranium. Stuff makes tungsten look like playdoe
@@HatsuneM1ku01 that's for tank rounds
From Iowa, glad to hear the shout out!!! 😂❤❤❤
Same bro.
16:24 and rats and insects and pretty much anything that moves.
Damn the mention of eating dogs aged like fine wine. 😂😂
Welcome back Charlie!!!!
Charlie's best SDI fuckup yet at 1:22. First I was like wtf is he saying, then I remembered the blood clot and shit myself laughing
The lvl 4 might have stopped it but that energy transfer into that gel still sent it into the air. FUCK THAT just let it end me.
Actually something was sent thru the gel on the first shot into the lv 4 armor
.27-08 has been around as a wildcat hunting cartridge since the 1950s.
3:28 your social commentary is much appreciated, Charles
Americans: battle rifles are obsolete
...adopts one later🤣
For a while it was true though.
That "while" was defeating jungle fatigues and towels and drapes. 😂 now we might have to deal with waves of massproduced fully armored runts in the bushes.@@Clockwork0nions
@@aaronschocke2147almost like the military adapts to the adversaries it thinks it'll have to fight.
They adopted this to beat the mass numbers of 5.56 in Americans' hands. Just a theory anyway...
@@aaronschocke2147This rifle is literally designed to fight dudes in the mountains of Afghanistan. It was chosen before any lessons were drawn from Ukraine. Both the weapon and ammo are too heavy. And as seen in the video, modern armor still stops it. Everyone in service will hate it.
A moment of appreciation for the granddad of this round(and many others).., the classic 7x57.
I love the humour, kills me every time. Good job as always, lads
1:53 hahaha 😆 Excellent real world advice from Charlie (as usual!)
"Nice armour...where did you get it?" " ............*shrugs-shoulders*....found it...."
Charlie seems like a such well traveled cultured guy.
Never under estimate your opponents. Semper Fi.
0:34 if you catch it, you're covered 😂