@@NoName-pe9wr "Why are you making a video now and not then?" I don't know why, but something is chronologically wrong with that statement in my head, even though I know what was meant.
Hi, Vanilla OS member here. Just to be clear, our intended goal with apx is to make it appealing, usable and convenient for developers, NOT for the average computer user at home. If someone wants to install a Linux distro easily for themselves (as a new Linux user) or for someone who knows little about computers, then this is (in my opinion) where Vanilla OS shines: we've prioritized first run experience to include almost everything the user needs by default in the installer, like NVIDIA drivers on NVIDIA systems, codecs, Flatpak with Flathub, etc. The user doesn't have to maintain the system, as Vanilla OS will take care of it automatically. Flathub (GNOME Software) contains graphical apps, which is what the average computer user needs, whereas Apx has both GUIs and CLIs, which is better suited for developers.
@@TheLinuxEXP no problem, and thanks a lot for covering Vanilla OS and the wonderful feedback :) As for the disk space, we're looking into using btrfs compression, to reduce disk space as much as possible. However, I can't guarantee if it'll be used by default in the future.
I'm a bit confused. First, you say that your intended goal is developers. But then you say that for new Linux users or someone who knows little about computers is where this distro shines. Could you please clarify to a non-Linux but curious Windows user ?
@@DavidM2002 Hello David, Vanilla OS member too here. The intended goal for apx and the fine tunable options in the first setup and installer is to provide a better customizable experience to developers and advanced/tech saavy users (i.e people using Linux already, containers, etc), whereas for beginners we have all the essentials like Flatpaks, out of the box and they can just use the defauts we have in first setup and install, manage applications graphically using GNOME Software, we also take away the update hassle for them by performing automatic updates in an schedule interval and install them atomically in the 2nd root partition (using ABRoot) and it will be ready to go upon reboot without any extra updating time to wait for it to install. So, this allows us to target the distro at both beginners and as well as advanced users.
The way Vanilla OS handles automatic system updates is such a refreshing experience: the os downloads the update, applies it in the background on a seperate system partition and the next time you boot up you're done, no loading bars, no waiting and you still have rock solid stable system on a very user friendly OS. This is how a desktop OS should work.
@Damien Brown The Chrome browser even did this since the early days (bar Linux versions that use the package manager rather than the custom updater), storing the update in a separate directory until you close and reopen the browser.
How does it handle multiple updates between long reboots? Say you don't reboot for 2 weeks, and you get 3 big system updates in that time. Are they all applied on partition B as they come, or onely update 1 is applied until you reboot, then updates 2 and/or 3?
@@Flackon So last time I had my Vanilla OS VM running was on the 8th May, I booted it up again today. I can confirm that it applies all the system updates at once in the background on the offline partition, it does take a bit more time since there are more updates to download and apply. Apps though are updated immediately without needing a reboot, apps that are currently running and open aren't updated though and will only be updated when closed and restarted, they're flatpak auto updates.
Something to note is that nix support for apx is very unique, in that it is not a container. So you won't suffer from slow startup times, and it is great for apps like fish shell or neovim. All the apps get installed in /nix directory.
If they just integrated home manager or wrapped it (perhaps with something like fleek, or even devenv), that would be a killer feature that would take advantage of more of what Nix has to offer.
If you're able to understand the Nix Config file system - you're much smarter than most. I just want a Distro - that doesn't make me suffer - in order to use it and I don't want to devote two months learning "ConFig Files". I'm not launching 1000 computers ..... Just ONE.
Fedora really needs to use this installer. I know theyre reworking Anaconda and arent looking for new installers, but man this GTK4 installer is perfect for a GNOME-centered distribution.
@@potatogod3000 doesn't every spin already ship the GTK libraries though? If it's about aesthetics, it makes more sense to have something that looks out of place on all but one of the spins rather than all of them.
For me, anaconda sucks ass, seriously it's unintuitive and sometimes disk partitioning doesn't work at all. Also it has issues with MacBooks apparently.
Fedora is a semi-perfect distro but it suffer from 2 real problems: 1- Anaconda is worse than Arch installer especially in what related to hard disk partitioning 💩 2- It is supported by Redhat 👺
I begrudgingly return to Fedora lol. I try out other distros, get disappointed, come back to Fedora. Fedora eventually breaks, get frustrated, try something new, don't like new thing, go back to Fedora
The boot partition setup sounds nice, especially since that seems to be a more open approachable way to do what macOS has done recently with making the base OS read only, which has significantly improved the stability of the already stable OS. Also that installation process looks quite nice!
The first time I'd heard of that method of updating was Google Chrome, who also use it in Chrome OS and Android via squashfs as the boot partitions. It's great to see the concept expanding beyond just Google, as it's a relatively simple solution to reduce the risk of updating. Windows even has it somewhat, when doing an annual Feature Update (that is essentially a full new build of the OS), but only keeps the previous build around for 10 days rather than permanently. I've even seen it in the firmware for the network switches and access points at my workplace, with Cisco Meraki switches downloading the updated firmware and installing it to the offline firmware storage, and then rebooting into the new firmware in about a minute, and then immediately going back to the old firmware if the new firmware crashes for any reason.
I've been missing the excitement of discovering such ambitious inovative projects in the Linux world lately! Thank you, Nick! Been hopping for a few years now only to find some or other distro's peculiarities that, although annoying, I would need to accept because I had already poured a lot of time in setup. This looks promising, though! However, there's always Free BSD, yeah?
Honestly I’ve stopped distro hopping and now am into desktop environment hopping. I used to when I wanted the latest version of certain things and moved to fedora, then got them but some other things I used were ubuntu specific, now if I want latest things I install with flatpak, snap or appimage, honestly I’m happy with pop os now
That's where everyone who's new to Linux should start in all honesty. The average user isn't going to care if they're running something based on Debian, Arch, Fedora if they all look and feel the same. Desktop environments are the bulk of the user experience. Somebody might wind up thinking they dislike a whole distro when they really only dislike a DE.
I agree, at first i was distro hopping then settled to fedora kde then other de's and I actually hated gnome but transitioned when fedora released the new workstation 😂😂😂. Didn't expect i would love gnome.
Great showcase video. Thanks Nick. I plan to daily drive an immutable Linux distro for a while and was just getting ready this moment to install Fedora Kinoite. Think I'm going to rather give VanillaOS a try now. The fact that VanillaOS integrates Nvidia drivers is a big plus.
It would be nice to have a dedicated video to Fedora Silverblue as well, which does a similar thing except has had the benefit of being around for a bit longer and therefore being a bit more mature. It's also the biggest immutable Linux distro out there. Still, VanillaOS is looking very interesting, and the graphical integration with Distrobox seems very cool, and better fletched out (from a user-facing perspective) than Toolbx in Silverblue. I wish they'd adapt an ostree approach as Silverblue does, as it really keeps the base system clean and revertable, but I will definitely keeping an eye open on VanillaOS.
Vanilla OS is more than just an Ubuntu-based distro. It's an actual collection of so many distros in one spot! Thanks VanillaOS Team! I'll be sure to try it soon.
So, in other words, it's for people who like "Pick 'n' Mix Sweeties" Linux - they are not willing to put in time and effort to do research to choose one Linux distro that suits their needs but instead insist on "a bit of everything" instead? Do those same people not understand that this just adds complexity to Linux, which means more likelihood of something going wrong?
Nope, I'm not distro-hopping. My initial path was: Ubuntu->Xubuntu->Mint->Manjaro and that was in the first year. Once I switched to Manjaro, broke my install 2 times, found out how it works, I am staying on Manjaro 8 years. You heard it correctly - 8 years on the same system install and see no need to change it in the foreseeable future. I'm using testing branch, which works better with AUR and I have things a bit quicker than stable version.
That is impressive. The longest Manjaro install i have seen is like a year. Breaks constantly for other people, but I guess they don't use the testing branch. I am on Arch personally. Archinstall system rn.
@@RexRex-n5t Testing branch is closer to Arch ensuring fewer issues with AUR packages, but I was on stable branch for years and didn't have any serious issues or anything that I couldn't manage. Manjaro is not that different from Arch in the end. Sure, there are some overlay packages, mhwd utility (so a bit different driver management), but most packages are from Arch, maintenance is the same. Ah, there is manjaro-chroot, which is super easy way to chroot in case of any more serious issues. I think the issues with Manjaro mostly come from users. Since Manjaro attracts less experienced and less technical inclined users, they do some weird or stupid stuff with the system and then can't handle basic issues during updates. System is stable and doesn't break on itself (although that did happen few times in so many years, but those were either some Arch bugs that were quickly fixed or system somehow broke the update in the middle, so it had to be finished in tty next time). Sure, Manjaro devs do make errors, but that also happens on Arch side. Anyway, usually if something happens, either backup or chroot help us to handle things. When I was starting with Manjaro I did break my system two times if I recall correctly, but that was necessary to learn. If someone is paying attention to announcements (like on Arch), it's easy to avoid or fix incoming problems. Those became quite rare in recent years,
Seems interesting, but I'll wait this one out until version 2.0: it seems with base distro change they plan to change way more than different ubuntu LTS releases change. Like the whole ABRoot will be changed according to the roadmap: `We are working on a new ABRoot version which use OCI images instead of the package manager.`. It feels like whole backend in vanilla os 2.0 will change. Not gonna risk it.
What I find quite weird is that Ubuntu 22.10 goes eol next week, and Orchid is nowhere near ready, so all installations will just be running an eol release for god knows how long...
I think apx is great, but I like Silverblues OSTree or NixOS's declarative configuration more than VanillaOS's ABRoot, because they ensure that even if you install once and then update your system for the next 3 years, it's still identical to a system installed fresh yesterday. That said, transactional update is way easier to understand than configuration through rpm-ostree or nixos configuration. I think ABRoot is more of an alternative to offline updates and Timeshift.
Thank you for reviewing this distro. Its nice to see influencers actually using their reach to actually help others. I hope this eventually becomes the de facto standard for linux for noobs instead of ubuntu or manajaro.
@@ZoldyckKillua the devs are always screwing things up regarding updates. They have a delayed update schedule that tends to break things you install from the AUR and also forgetting to update ssl certificates atleast 4 times. Worst is pushing manjaro for ARM macbooks but not crediting or informing the asahi linux devs and pushing broken kernels to users. Their worst infraction is overspending to purchase a laptop for a dev, and forcing the treasurer to exit.
That's not the case with DE's. While I prefer gnome, that cuts the already small user base in half. I feel like having multiple containers for different repos is unnecessary. Do we really need an "all in one" solution? I only came across one application (CLI utility) not in the aur, so I added it myself. There's also flatpak. I like the idea of using different partitions for safety with updates.
I've been loving the ideas behind this. Been looking at Universal Blue as well. I've never been more excited for what the future holds. It needs work, but my hope is this will significantly reduce configuration drift on a system that's been running for years.
I've been following the project for a few months. Glad to see it getting attention, especially from you ! I did not know bottles had gotten to native performance, thanks for the info. I'll most definitely consider it once I figure out how to make custom widgets for linux DEs, similarly to Rainmeter on Windows.
this video makes me really debate whether i want to stay on manjaro. i'm fighting the urge to distro-switch because this distro looks and seems so cool
Tbh I've never had time to look properly into immutable distros, I might go install it on one of my laptops soon And interesting how it uses an A/B slot system like Android on Pixel devices does
I distro hopped for less than a year. I landed on Arch with KDE, via EndeavourOS, and that's all I need. 🐧 There is no such thing as the perfect distro out of the box, and once you install all of your favorite programs, and set them and the OS up for your workflow, it sort of becomes your own distro. KDE Plasma gives me so many options and so much control, I haven't explored all of it in the 10 years I have been using it, and it just gets better with every update.😛🐧
@@BankruptGreek Last time I used windows (Setting up my dad's computer) I hated it more than ever before! The difference between the Windows way (Squished into Microsoft's tight box), and the Linux way (Your way) is huge if you have used Linux exclusively for a few years, like I have.
VanillaOS seems way more interesting than I initially thought! I might give it a try next time I need to reinstall my laptop, which currently runs Fedora. Also, the best installers I've ever seen before this were already on Linux. This one seems like the best one so far and therefore the best desktop OS installer of any OS!
Good video. One of the issues when moving to Linux is the confusing numbers of distros, choosing which is best, finding the apps to replace the ones you are used to etc
A problem I run into is a package isn't available so I try to compile it from source, but that requires a ton of other unavailable dependency packages that might break the system, using older versions of those packages. I guess this has the advantage that you can just break a container leaving the rest of your OS intact.
I just installed Vanilla on my Toshiba laptop. Problems right from the start. Will not recognise the wifi. Will not scale the display, so fonts are microscopic on a 4k monitor. could not install apps via terminal. etc. Vanilla needs to improve.
I'm new to Linux, just started trying out different distros a couple of weeks ago. Ended up with Fedora Silverblue on my main Desktop and Vanilla OS on an old laptop to test things parallel to fedora. Btw. I don't see a contradiction in aiming both for newcomers & and users who just want their desired software to without any hassle work (regarding Linux I'm fit in both categories:)) users and programmers as both, with different reasons behind it, have a strong interest in just having a running system and an easy way to roll back if things don't work for some reason... Generally I would have properly gone with Vanilla OS as I like the way their immutability works better among some other differences. However, as I read through the changes planned in the next release, I decided to wait for 2.0 Orchid. I always keep the system changes and software packages I use as minimal as possible, so hopping will not take too much time:)....
8:00 @TheEvilSkeleton, could you please confirm whether you truly need to REMEMBER where you installed each app from if you want to uninstall? There is no better/easier way? Can this not be automated a bit?
Maybe I'll give this a go sometime soon. But I won't make the mistake of ditching my current install, I'll back that up this time as I've been disappointed so many times in the past when trying new distro's or systems. Also skeptical about the no overhead perf loss; find that hard to believe. (even flatpak has overhead due to seccomp)
I have always been terribly intimidated by the idea of switching over to Linux, but your videos have helped me figure out how to do things like pick a distro and set things up. So thank you! I set up a dual boot system with a new system I got and I am loving the ease of use.
I hope VanillaOS team add another light DEs ISOs like (Enlightenment DE), LXQt or XFCE to this distro or add options to choose it in the installer step👍🏼
This is sweet, the container as os approach. Fed up with the setup? Just delete it and rerun the install scripts, but app data is maintained with maybe things like symlinks etc Really interesting approach!
Windows -> Ubuntu (few months)-> Elemantary OS (over a Year) -> Windows (+- 3 years)-> Fedora (a few months)-> Pop OS (Few months) -> Arch (+- 4years). Once I learned how things worked in linux, its realy hard to use other distro that are not Arch based. So I use Arch btw
Im sorry for asking but I'm new to Linux and wanted to ask what you're using for the footage at 0:04 because I really like the interface of that. is it GNOME?
As an alternative, consider universal-blue, a project aiming at providing customized immutable Fedora images (think Fedora Silverblue, but with all the stuff you might want to use added in, including optional nvidia drivers). There are images available for lots of different desktop environments. Personally, I helped with the Cinnamon one. The images set you up for automatic updates, so you really don't need to think about your system at all, and they help you get started installing flatpaks.
@@zXHAcKeRzXz I think the main purpose of vanilla is to make certain things easier. Universal blue comes with distrobox, which supports installing apps from different distros, but you have to set up your distrobox containers, whereas my impression is that vanilla does that for you.
@@misterdrgn5155 So basically Vanilla does all what Universal do and more, and have a "better" team behind because it's names who are experienced in multi environments
@@zXHAcKeRzXz I'm not sure why you need to be so competitive, but of course Vanilla doesn't do everything Universal does. We haven't even talked about what Universal does. To begin with, Universal Blue uses Fedora Silverblue as a base. Aside from being a well-established base (it's been around a lot longer than Vanilla OS), it provides access to newer libraries and packages. I like it because I want to support new hardware and I want to use new container software, neither of which is can be done conveniently on Ubuntu, or even on Debian Sid (which the next version of Vanilla OS will use). Beyond that, Universal is about customization. There are a bunch of images available to support different desktop environments (whereas vanilla os is all about gnome, as I understand it), and there are instructions for developing your own image, which is where things really get interesting. All that said, the next version of Vanilla OS looks intriguing, and it may also support developing custom images for different desktop environments, albeit in a different way, and I look forward to checking it out.
@@misterdrgn5155 That's the two points taht were bothering me about Vanilla I talked about in another coment. Like, every software that rely on hardware, they're basically not available on basic OS, only on bleeding edge one, who will be on container, so what about the communication layer with a guest OS? And about gnome too. It's possible to install DE/WM but I don't want to mess up too much with host OS, I want I near pristine. So yeah, I still don't know
Thanks for highlighting this intriguing distro! I hadn’t heard about it before your informative video. The splintered Linux eco-system has been a blessing of freedom, but a curse of splintered fragmentation - especially on the desktop. In the server room, things had coalesced much more, and arguably that’s one of the key differences in adoption rate differences. The VanillaOS approach is really interesting in how it tries to combine the best of all worlds. If the VanillaOS team can make the hardware driver layer work really smoothly, then they may have a chance to become a real difference maker. I wish them well!
I've tried many distros before like Ubuntu, Mint, Mate, JingOS, Xubuntu, Fedora, ElementaryOS, Parrot, and other. I really looking forward to most unique OS and completely different from other OS.
While Vanilla OS and the apx package manager is a really cool concept, for me at least, it will never be a replacement for the likes of Linux Mint or other well established distros. I can see the value in immutable file systems but I personally don't see myself daily driving such a system. It should be noted, for anyone who doesn't know, that the AUR isn't Arch's official repository. Technically the AUR isn't a *package* repository at all but rather a collection of package building scripts made by the community.
This could solve Linux gaming. One of the biggest problems is compatability with all of the different distros. Now, with the subsystems on Vanilla OS, devs can just pick one distro to optimize their game and it will be playable by Vanilla no matter which one they choose.
@@blvckl0tcs750 the support for native titles issue is the one being fixed here. The reason not all titles are natively supported on linux is it would take too long to make the game compatible with each distro. Now, devs can just puck one distro and optimize the game for that, and if most people run Vanilla OS or something like it, they'd be able to play the game no matter what distro the devs chose.
5:54 I would absolutely love this feature on windows. The number of times Windows just decided it was time for updates (or even worse indexing 💀) is absolutely insane.
@@tapioca_santiago My problem with gnome is that it doesn't have features on wayland that I want or need, like global shortcut keys, variable refresh rate and "allow tearing" protocol, plus I want to customize my desktop which can be done much easier on kde, and something for you is bloat for someone else it's something that he needs which can only work if it's implemented in to the DE, one reason can be for why gnome is less buggy is because it's backed by companies which allowed them to have full time employees which kde didn't really had, and it's show that the current kde is not that buggy like how was it few years ago.
Good news - it will! Eventually… The next version of Vanilla is made more modular to be able to offer spins, and very likely KDE will be the first one.
Honestly, all VanillaOS team has to do is fork Pamac suite so instead of Pamac Manager using pamac, it uses apx and that third-party package tab in its settings can actually mean something. I've not had difficulty understanding where any of my installed packages were coming from with that utility, and it's GTK3-based which makes it a perfect fit for use in GNOME Shell.
I'll wait for them to complete migration to Debian Sid and I really hope they will switch to rolling release because of that, but the idea looks promising, despite I would prefer ostree over abroot myself.
The fundamental idea behind this concept is basically perfect. The idea of running the things you need in secure and optimized containers is great. Once the issues smooth out things will be amazing. I feel this could be the next Mint for the new generation of computer nerds!
7:58 This is not a simple drawback. This is huge. You can't remember all the stuffs you installed, and by default the system should track those. This is the thing that would prevent someone from moving onto this distro.
One of VanillaOS’ major strengths and major downsides is the fact that it’s immutable and atomic. Not all people like it and not all people will switch to it, especially considering that the concept still in its infancy on Linux.
As a note: Vanilla OS is designed to simplify things for the average user, and so breaks a LOT of things for anyone who needs anything more complicated. Mounts aren't handled by fstab, adding third-party repos require you to build a custom image (unlike any other immutable distro), and the dev team is very set in their ways. If you want control of your system, Vanilla is NOT where you get it. Especially with Orchid, they have a very windows-like mentality
Fascinating conceptually, but zoom out and in the final analysis what have you got? Gnome with icons you click to run your applications. I suppose you could argue that the immutable nature makes it more stable, but then, most distros are stable nowadays. Or you could say there’s a wider variety of available software, but then again, most applications are available on any major distro nowadays. So as I see it, the immutable and container-based systems are fun to tinker with, but of no exceptional value to the end user.
It seems to me like it should be possible for the OS to keep track of what package manager was used to install it. It already knows which subsystem/container to run, so it wouldn't be that much more data.
Been running VanillaOS for couple of months as a secondary os on my laptop and after setting up haven't had any major problems with it only some app and container related but those are usually quickly resolved once you find the root of the problem. Might install it in my main desktop and give it a go if manage to brake it's current distro sometime in the future 😄
Great video as always. Off-topic: As it is a mistake I am liable to make myself as an "English is not my native language" speaker I just want to point out a slip-up you made at 11:46. You said "implication" and I am sure you meant "implementation"
This is incredible! Not only does it makes it more idiot-proof, but also allows for safely using apps from other distros. This was such a headache 20 years or so ago when I was playing around with Linux for the first time.
Been using vanilla for a few months now and its genuinely amazing. I would highly recommend it to any first time (or not) linux user. Got my brother on it too!
I forgot what the original name of this offering was. It was first done by a team in the EU. I loved it. Cause it allowed me to get real comfortable with linux real fast. Does the live distro work on ARM laptops? I've already got a full house of distros on one computer. Well, depends on the size of this one I might be able to fit one more.
I installed Vanilla today and your video showed up I wanted it to be used for daily browser and RUclips for my projector in the hall and watch movies so it's perfect for me. (I don't want my OS to break accidentally because I try lots of software to improve my experience) I tinkered here and there with Aur I feel it has quite the potential to be a bridge to combine the different communities of Linux to come together and appreciate it 😀 probably... It would be great to have one Linux that can get everything sometimes.
Hey, please can you tell me which kernel version comes with the newest vanilla OS? Can't find the info anywhere. And if I for example use an Arch Container does it use a different arch specific kernel then or to how much of a degree is the container rootet in the Vanilla OS Kernel? Weird questions I think but my understanding of linux things is limited. For Context: I am trying out one of the new intel arc graphic cards which work very well for me on lets say POP OS with Kernel 6.2 so I must know if I should consider vanilla also
Looks like a messy solution. Instead of developing one, very good package manager, which would be an actual solution to fragmentation, they just cobbled together every package manager, good or bad, into one distro.
That Kernel partion that Vanilla creates looks interesting but I wonder how the installation handles if you are doing it on Proxmox Containers with Docker
I like the idea of using Debian as a rock-solid base while being able to use apps from other distros. Would try until it becomes more polished, until then I just stick with my Linux mint with Flatpak.
00:03 No, didn't distrohoping at all. Just Ubuntu and then Arch. Using it happily for 3 months now. Currently there might be only one "distro" worth attention: Linux From Scratch (not seriously though, at least at this moment). For Servers maybe some Red Hat derivatives, but only for customers. My own public projects will from now on run on Arch only even in production. Also I think you didn't proper distro hoping neither, since I couldn't find an Arch review in your archive...
As a long time linux user, no, no I have not been distro hopping. I used Open SUSE in 2005. I moved to Ubuntu in 2008 and kept it till 2012 when ubuntu decided to sell my desktop searches to Amazon. I stopped using linux until around 4 and a half years ago. I then moved from Windows 10 to Solus and when Solus died to Manajaro. I have distro hopped at around the same speed MS has been releasing a new version of windows. It takes a certain kind of person to distro hop - the DT kind of person, the person for whom tinkering with their OS is their hobby. I don't use linux because it's my hobby, I use it because it 's more private that Windows. BUT, at the end of the day a linux distro is still just an OS for me, it's there to facility the interaction between my hardware and my programs, and nothing else.
Wow, VanillaOS is remarkable. I really enjoyed your video. Very informative. I'm even tempted to use ValnillaOS so I can check out multiple distros. I'm gonna thumbs up this video.
That's awesome! Sounds like something that would be worth someone doing a long term, deep dive into. I think that if it added some kind of small utility to keep track of which package managers were used for which programs, that'd help with the confusion you mentioned; just something you can open to pull up a list of programs with their installation method. And I keep thinking that distros need some kind user manual. Preferably written with small words and as little jargon as possible. And for the jargon it does use, it should include useful and understandable definitions, even small articles if it's a particularly tricky concept. And having it available offline would be good for troubleshooting certain tricky situations. Being highly searchable would be good too, using synonyms and common misspellings to help people find what they are looking for.
The only distros I've ever tried are Arch and Gentoo (I'm not counting ssh'ing into servers running Debian or Ubuntu, or using other people's Ubuntu machines). The only other ones I have seriously considered running myself are Gobolinux, Source Mage GNU/Linux, Guix System, and NixOS. Probably going to move to one of those someday, but I don't think that counts as "distrohopping a lot". I use Arch BTW EDIT: I forgot about my GParted Live flash drive, but.. does that even count?
Void Linux has so far been the most enjoyable to use. Boot times were insane, and the responsiveness was snappier than I'd ever thought possible on that machine. I've ultimately settled back into Arch myself, but that's only because Void doesn't use Pipewire by default and I don't want to mess with setting up audio myself. Artix is a really good middle ground. It's just Arch with systemd swapped out for a different init system. I only ever left Artix because I didn't bother learning about anything that in depth at the time. Also of note: this and Linux Lite were the only two distros I've never experienced a problem with pulseaudio in. Trisquel is another purely FOSS distro, if that interests you.
I work for an enterprise storage company which supports CentOS, RHEL and Rocky Linux. So I use either Rocky or CentOS but usually without a desktop. In fact I’m watching RUclips in Bash at 80x25 resolution!
For example, for a hardware-based software (for example ambient brightness detector) that isn't available on Ubuntu/Debian, how would that work out? The container would be able to communicate with the brightness detector and ask the host os to modify brightness?
Try out Kasm Workspaces to stream desktops, OSes & apps to your browser: www.kasmweb.com/community-edition
vmware killer
I actually use Kasm and can vouch for its quality
@@TaelsDoll more like virtualbox killer, vmware was already dead when it became impossible to uninstall
@@NoName-pe9wr "Why are you making a video now and not then?" I don't know why, but something is chronologically wrong with that statement in my head, even though I know what was meant.
How about a comparison video?
Vannila OS vs OpenSUSE MicroOS?
Hi, Vanilla OS member here. Just to be clear, our intended goal with apx is to make it appealing, usable and convenient for developers, NOT for the average computer user at home. If someone wants to install a Linux distro easily for themselves (as a new Linux user) or for someone who knows little about computers, then this is (in my opinion) where Vanilla OS shines: we've prioritized first run experience to include almost everything the user needs by default in the installer, like NVIDIA drivers on NVIDIA systems, codecs, Flatpak with Flathub, etc. The user doesn't have to maintain the system, as Vanilla OS will take care of it automatically.
Flathub (GNOME Software) contains graphical apps, which is what the average computer user needs, whereas Apx has both GUIs and CLIs, which is better suited for developers.
Thanks for the precision!
@@TheLinuxEXP no problem, and thanks a lot for covering Vanilla OS and the wonderful feedback :)
As for the disk space, we're looking into using btrfs compression, to reduce disk space as much as possible. However, I can't guarantee if it'll be used by default in the future.
I'm a bit confused. First, you say that your intended goal is developers. But then you say that for new Linux users or someone who knows little about computers is where this distro shines. Could you please clarify to a non-Linux but curious Windows user ?
@@DavidM2002 Hello David, Vanilla OS member too here. The intended goal for apx and the fine tunable options in the first setup and installer is to provide a better customizable experience to developers and advanced/tech saavy users (i.e people using Linux already, containers, etc), whereas for beginners we have all the essentials like Flatpaks, out of the box and they can just use the defauts we have in first setup and install, manage applications graphically using GNOME Software, we also take away the update hassle for them by performing automatic updates in an schedule interval and install them atomically in the 2nd root partition (using ABRoot) and it will be ready to go upon reboot without any extra updating time to wait for it to install. So, this allows us to target the distro at both beginners and as well as advanced users.
Okay I think this will finally make me try out Linux, but can I run this using hyper-v?
The way Vanilla OS handles automatic system updates is such a refreshing experience: the os downloads the update, applies it in the background on a seperate system partition and the next time you boot up you're done, no loading bars, no waiting and you still have rock solid stable system on a very user friendly OS. This is how a desktop OS should work.
That is taken from android I think. They have a A slot/B slot and they update one after the other
There should be an option to disable automatic updates from even download, in case i simply don't want anything download unless i click download
@Damien Brown The Chrome browser even did this since the early days (bar Linux versions that use the package manager rather than the custom updater), storing the update in a separate directory until you close and reopen the browser.
How does it handle multiple updates between long reboots? Say you don't reboot for 2 weeks, and you get 3 big system updates in that time. Are they all applied on partition B as they come, or onely update 1 is applied until you reboot, then updates 2 and/or 3?
@@Flackon So last time I had my Vanilla OS VM running was on the 8th May, I booted it up again today.
I can confirm that it applies all the system updates at once in the background on the offline partition, it does take a bit more time since there are more updates to download and apply.
Apps though are updated immediately without needing a reboot, apps that are currently running and open aren't updated though and will only be updated when closed and restarted, they're flatpak auto updates.
This could be the future of immutable Linux distros! To the Vanilla OS team: Well done with the installer!
i've never seen a member comment on here before
@@WohaoG one did, like an hour ago xD
@@FlooferLand 😂
@@cameronbosch1213 oop i thought they meant a Vanilla OS dev team member, and one (TheEvilSkeleton) commented xD
Thank you :)
Something to note is that nix support for apx is very unique, in that it is not a container. So you won't suffer from slow startup times, and it is great for apps like fish shell or neovim. All the apps get installed in /nix directory.
If they just integrated home manager or wrapped it (perhaps with something like fleek, or even devenv), that would be a killer feature that would take advantage of more of what Nix has to offer.
@@yelircaasi How hard is it to modify the nix default install of Nix to use home manager or fleek?
If you're able to understand the Nix Config file system - you're much smarter than most. I just want a Distro - that doesn't make me suffer - in order to use it and I don't want to devote two months learning "ConFig Files". I'm not launching 1000 computers ..... Just ONE.
@@unclefester9113Hahahah I felt that , but is needs take it to the next level I guess for literally no reason
Fedora really needs to use this installer. I know theyre reworking Anaconda and arent looking for new installers, but man this GTK4 installer is perfect for a GNOME-centered distribution.
But Fedora has other spins too. So they cant just use GTK 4 one in Workstation and use Anaconda in Spins like Everything, Plasma, Budgie, Sway etc.
@@potatogod3000 doesn't every spin already ship the GTK libraries though?
If it's about aesthetics, it makes more sense to have something that looks out of place on all but one of the spins rather than all of them.
For me, anaconda sucks ass, seriously it's unintuitive and sometimes disk partitioning doesn't work at all. Also it has issues with MacBooks apparently.
@@lorenzostavern649 yup anaconda is really confusing esp the partition table
Fedora is a semi-perfect distro but it suffer from 2 real problems:
1- Anaconda is worse than Arch installer especially in what related to hard disk partitioning 💩
2- It is supported by Redhat 👺
"There are 20 standards. Too many! Let's integrate the best of those and release our own! There are now 21 standards."
The set containing all sets.
Vanilla OS is definitely on my list of distros I plan to try soon.
My days of hopping came to an end when I started using Fedora. As a Red Hat certified guy, it's perfect for me as well.
This right here!!! My Lenovo even has claimed support for it. The company I work for has a bunch of RHEL servers too
i stopped at endeavouros
I settled in CachyOS. But had a great run with Fedora from 35 til 38.
I begrudgingly return to Fedora lol. I try out other distros, get disappointed, come back to Fedora. Fedora eventually breaks, get frustrated, try something new, don't like new thing, go back to Fedora
So, I finished the moment when I tried Kinoite, very similar to VanillaOS, but in my opinion much better in almost everything.
The boot partition setup sounds nice, especially since that seems to be a more open approachable way to do what macOS has done recently with making the base OS read only, which has significantly improved the stability of the already stable OS.
Also that installation process looks quite nice!
The first time I'd heard of that method of updating was Google Chrome, who also use it in Chrome OS and Android via squashfs as the boot partitions. It's great to see the concept expanding beyond just Google, as it's a relatively simple solution to reduce the risk of updating. Windows even has it somewhat, when doing an annual Feature Update (that is essentially a full new build of the OS), but only keeps the previous build around for 10 days rather than permanently. I've even seen it in the firmware for the network switches and access points at my workplace, with Cisco Meraki switches downloading the updated firmware and installing it to the offline firmware storage, and then rebooting into the new firmware in about a minute, and then immediately going back to the old firmware if the new firmware crashes for any reason.
I've been missing the excitement of discovering such ambitious inovative projects in the Linux world lately! Thank you, Nick! Been hopping for a few years now only to find some or other distro's peculiarities that, although annoying, I would need to accept because I had already poured a lot of time in setup. This looks promising, though! However, there's always Free BSD, yeah?
Linux really needs a more universalized package manager, because the problem that you mentioned is also could available on popular distros too.
Honestly I’ve stopped distro hopping and now am into desktop environment hopping. I used to when I wanted the latest version of certain things and moved to fedora, then got them but some other things I used were ubuntu specific, now if I want latest things I install with flatpak, snap or appimage, honestly I’m happy with pop os now
That's where everyone who's new to Linux should start in all honesty.
The average user isn't going to care if they're running something based on Debian, Arch, Fedora if they all look and feel the same.
Desktop environments are the bulk of the user experience. Somebody might wind up thinking they dislike a whole distro when they really only dislike a DE.
hyprland ftw
I agree, at first i was distro hopping then settled to fedora kde then other de's and I actually hated gnome but transitioned when fedora released the new workstation 😂😂😂. Didn't expect i would love gnome.
I still don't understand distro hopping. It's literally like buying a new house just because you don't like the color of your room.
@@l4kr If you are getting a new house for free, why not? Although there is still work needed to be done, even if the house itself is free.
Great showcase video. Thanks Nick.
I plan to daily drive an immutable Linux distro for a while and was just getting ready this moment to install Fedora Kinoite. Think I'm going to rather give VanillaOS a try now.
The fact that VanillaOS integrates Nvidia drivers is a big plus.
It would be nice to have a dedicated video to Fedora Silverblue as well, which does a similar thing except has had the benefit of being around for a bit longer and therefore being a bit more mature. It's also the biggest immutable Linux distro out there.
Still, VanillaOS is looking very interesting, and the graphical integration with Distrobox seems very cool, and better fletched out (from a user-facing perspective) than Toolbx in Silverblue. I wish they'd adapt an ostree approach as Silverblue does, as it really keeps the base system clean and revertable, but I will definitely keeping an eye open on VanillaOS.
Vanilla OS is more than just an Ubuntu-based distro. It's an actual collection of so many distros in one spot! Thanks VanillaOS Team! I'll be sure to try it soon.
So, in other words, it's for people who like "Pick 'n' Mix Sweeties" Linux - they are not willing to put in time and effort to do research to choose one Linux distro that suits their needs but instead insist on "a bit of everything" instead? Do those same people not understand that this just adds complexity to Linux, which means more likelihood of something going wrong?
its just containers slapped together. on that reasoning i can have all linux distros on windows with containers also lol.
Yeah, ikr?
@@marmadukemontague4081 There it is, the first Linux gatekeeper for the VanillaOS.
Nope, I'm not distro-hopping. My initial path was: Ubuntu->Xubuntu->Mint->Manjaro and that was in the first year. Once I switched to Manjaro, broke my install 2 times, found out how it works, I am staying on Manjaro 8 years. You heard it correctly - 8 years on the same system install and see no need to change it in the foreseeable future. I'm using testing branch, which works better with AUR and I have things a bit quicker than stable version.
That is impressive. The longest Manjaro install i have seen is like a year. Breaks constantly for other people, but I guess they don't use the testing branch. I am on Arch personally. Archinstall system rn.
@@RexRex-n5t Testing branch is closer to Arch ensuring fewer issues with AUR packages, but I was on stable branch for years and didn't have any serious issues or anything that I couldn't manage. Manjaro is not that different from Arch in the end. Sure, there are some overlay packages, mhwd utility (so a bit different driver management), but most packages are from Arch, maintenance is the same. Ah, there is manjaro-chroot, which is super easy way to chroot in case of any more serious issues.
I think the issues with Manjaro mostly come from users. Since Manjaro attracts less experienced and less technical inclined users, they do some weird or stupid stuff with the system and then can't handle basic issues during updates. System is stable and doesn't break on itself (although that did happen few times in so many years, but those were either some Arch bugs that were quickly fixed or system somehow broke the update in the middle, so it had to be finished in tty next time). Sure, Manjaro devs do make errors, but that also happens on Arch side.
Anyway, usually if something happens, either backup or chroot help us to handle things. When I was starting with Manjaro I did break my system two times if I recall correctly, but that was necessary to learn. If someone is paying attention to announcements (like on Arch), it's easy to avoid or fix incoming problems. Those became quite rare in recent years,
Seems interesting, but I'll wait this one out until version 2.0: it seems with base distro change they plan to change way more than different ubuntu LTS releases change. Like the whole ABRoot will be changed according to the roadmap: `We are working on a new ABRoot version which use OCI images instead of the package manager.`. It feels like whole backend in vanilla os 2.0 will change. Not gonna risk it.
Yeah it will need another look when that’s out
Yeah I agree. I'm probably going to give this distro a try once the version 2.0 comes out.
What I find quite weird is that Ubuntu 22.10 goes eol next week, and Orchid is nowhere near ready, so all installations will just be running an eol release for god knows how long...
A distro similar in essence to this is bedrock linux , you should make a video on it even though it's not fully finished yet
They are going to change lots of things in the next release, so itis likely that this video will need a remake
Probably, yeah
2:11 "How can you operate a computer if you can't modify the system? Good news is you can! But you shouldn't." What a roller-coaster of emotions. 😄
😂
I think apx is great, but I like Silverblues OSTree or NixOS's declarative configuration more than VanillaOS's ABRoot, because they ensure that even if you install once and then update your system for the next 3 years, it's still identical to a system installed fresh yesterday.
That said, transactional update is way easier to understand than configuration through rpm-ostree or nixos configuration.
I think ABRoot is more of an alternative to offline updates and Timeshift.
Next version of ABRoot is also using OCI image afaik. So, things are changing.
Thank you for reviewing this distro. Its nice to see influencers actually using their reach to actually help others. I hope this eventually becomes the de facto standard for linux for noobs instead of ubuntu or manajaro.
whats wrong with manjaro?
@@ZoldyckKillua the devs are always screwing things up regarding updates. They have a delayed update schedule that tends to break things you install from the AUR and also forgetting to update ssl certificates atleast 4 times. Worst is pushing manjaro for ARM macbooks but not crediting or informing the asahi linux devs and pushing broken kernels to users. Their worst infraction is overspending to purchase a laptop for a dev, and forcing the treasurer to exit.
I like the "Why pick one when you can have them all?" concept of Vanilla OS. I'll have to consider it.
That's not the case with DE's. While I prefer gnome, that cuts the already small user base in half.
I feel like having multiple containers for different repos is unnecessary. Do we really need an "all in one" solution? I only came across one application (CLI utility) not in the aur, so I added it myself. There's also flatpak.
I like the idea of using different partitions for safety with updates.
I've been loving the ideas behind this. Been looking at Universal Blue as well. I've never been more excited for what the future holds. It needs work, but my hope is this will significantly reduce configuration drift on a system that's been running for years.
I don't want every Linux distro merged into one. All I want is a single Linux distro that doesn't suck.
I've been following the project for a few months. Glad to see it getting attention, especially from you !
I did not know bottles had gotten to native performance, thanks for the info.
I'll most definitely consider it once I figure out how to make custom widgets for linux DEs, similarly to Rainmeter on Windows.
Conky can do wonders if you like to spend hours in config files.
Actually I am just using KDE Plasma Widgets that are pretty good and easy to set up.
Nowadays using wine GE/proton for games can get you even *better* performance than windows due to Linux being so light
this video makes me really debate whether i want to stay on manjaro. i'm fighting the urge to distro-switch because this distro looks and seems so cool
hi bro, this comment section be looking chill and clean right now, have a 👍 and have a great day
Thanks!
Tbh I've never had time to look properly into immutable distros, I might go install it on one of my laptops soon
And interesting how it uses an A/B slot system like Android on Pixel devices does
I distro hopped for less than a year. I landed on Arch with KDE, via EndeavourOS, and that's all I need. 🐧 There is no such thing as the perfect distro out of the box, and once you install all of your favorite programs, and set them and the OS up for your workflow, it sort of becomes your own distro. KDE Plasma gives me so many options and so much control, I haven't explored all of it in the 10 years I have been using it, and it just gets better with every update.😛🐧
AUR
@Dustter Also!! Endeavour is really great!!
Damn @@sivuyilemagutywa5286 how did u do it
same right now is the longest I ve stayed on Linux, endeavor is great
@@BankruptGreek Last time I used windows (Setting up my dad's computer) I hated it more than ever before! The difference between the Windows way (Squished into Microsoft's tight box), and the Linux way (Your way) is huge if you have used Linux exclusively for a few years, like I have.
VanillaOS seems way more interesting than I initially thought! I might give it a try next time I need to reinstall my laptop, which currently runs Fedora.
Also, the best installers I've ever seen before this were already on Linux. This one seems like the best one so far and therefore the best desktop OS installer of any OS!
Thanks for always being a great source of news!
You’re welcome!
Good video. One of the issues when moving to Linux is the confusing numbers of distros, choosing which is best, finding the apps to replace the ones you are used to etc
A problem I run into is a package isn't available so I try to compile it from source, but that requires a ton of other unavailable dependency packages that might break the system, using older versions of those packages. I guess this has the advantage that you can just break a container leaving the rest of your OS intact.
Yeah absolutely!
you finally showcased vanilla os
i've been waiting for your coverage on that distro for a long time
@A Gamer Aaron yeah, I remember that video, but i was looking forward to his take on it
I really wish there was a kde version
The Bottles guy is one the most talented Linux folks alive. Will definitely be trying out this distro
I just installed Vanilla on my Toshiba laptop. Problems right from the start. Will not recognise the wifi. Will not scale the display, so fonts are microscopic on a 4k monitor. could not install apps via terminal. etc. Vanilla needs to improve.
13:55 is a great point.
You could have basicly universal distro for everyone.
It has its problems, but it is good compromise.
I'm new to Linux, just started trying out different distros a couple of weeks ago. Ended up with Fedora Silverblue on my main Desktop and Vanilla OS on an old laptop to test things parallel to fedora. Btw. I don't see a contradiction in aiming both for newcomers & and users who just want their desired software to without any hassle work (regarding Linux I'm fit in both categories:)) users and programmers as both, with different reasons behind it, have a strong interest in just having a running system and an easy way to roll back if things don't work for some reason...
Generally I would have properly gone with Vanilla OS as I like the way their immutability works better among some other differences. However, as I read through the changes planned in the next release, I decided to wait for 2.0 Orchid. I always keep the system changes and software packages I use as minimal as possible, so hopping will not take too much time:)....
11:50 "imbrication". Takes class to use that word--bravo. Now I want an imbricating window manager.
VanillaOS looks very interesting. I used to distro-hop about once a month, until I found Arch 😉
8:00 @TheEvilSkeleton, could you please confirm whether you truly need to REMEMBER where you installed each app from if you want to uninstall? There is no better/easier way? Can this not be automated a bit?
Maybe I'll give this a go sometime soon. But I won't make the mistake of ditching my current install, I'll back that up this time as I've been disappointed so many times in the past when trying new distro's or systems.
Also skeptical about the no overhead perf loss; find that hard to believe. (even flatpak has overhead due to seccomp)
I have always been terribly intimidated by the idea of switching over to Linux, but your videos have helped me figure out how to do things like pick a distro and set things up. So thank you! I set up a dual boot system with a new system I got and I am loving the ease of use.
don't be! me myself is now replacing my macos to ubuntu, single os. no dual boot. felt liberated!
I hope VanillaOS team add another light DEs ISOs like (Enlightenment DE), LXQt or XFCE to this distro or add options to choose it in the installer step👍🏼
You will be able to build custom images manually in next version of Vanilla OS. If you want a spin with a different DE, make that happen.
And then you have messy os.@@TheGameMakeGuy
This is sweet, the container as os approach.
Fed up with the setup? Just delete it and rerun the install scripts, but app data is maintained with maybe things like symlinks etc
Really interesting approach!
Windows -> Ubuntu (few months)-> Elemantary OS (over a Year) -> Windows (+- 3 years)-> Fedora (a few months)-> Pop OS (Few months) -> Arch (+- 4years). Once I learned how things worked in linux, its realy hard to use other distro that are not Arch based. So I use Arch btw
I use linux from scratch btw
Im sorry for asking but I'm new to Linux and wanted to ask what you're using for the footage at 0:04 because I really like the interface of that. is it GNOME?
I know that this comment is a year old, but yes that is GNOME. The distro is called Ubuntu, it’s based on their own version of GNOME.
Can you also test blendos and make a comparasion with vanilla os?
As someone who's never distro hopped for the past 3 years since I first installed Linux, I see this as an absolute win
what are u even using man?
@@Swastik_Sama kubuntu
Oh, but I did make the switch from plasma to a tiling window manager called qtile tho
Merci pour le test 🙏
C’était complet et juste. J’ai passé un super moment !
Des bisous 😘
Merci 😏
Interesting, ambitious project: making it possible for one distro to benefit from all Linux branches. Certainly one to watch. Thank you for the review
As an alternative, consider universal-blue, a project aiming at providing customized immutable Fedora images (think Fedora Silverblue, but with all the stuff you might want to use added in, including optional nvidia drivers). There are images available for lots of different desktop environments. Personally, I helped with the Cinnamon one. The images set you up for automatic updates, so you really don't need to think about your system at all, and they help you get started installing flatpaks.
So universal is closed source contents, portable executable, DE/WM of choice, Fedora image. But it lacks the main purpose of vanilla, multi-os apps
@@zXHAcKeRzXz I think the main purpose of vanilla is to make certain things easier. Universal blue comes with distrobox, which supports installing apps from different distros, but you have to set up your distrobox containers, whereas my impression is that vanilla does that for you.
@@misterdrgn5155 So basically Vanilla does all what Universal do and more, and have a "better" team behind because it's names who are experienced in multi environments
@@zXHAcKeRzXz I'm not sure why you need to be so competitive, but of course Vanilla doesn't do everything Universal does. We haven't even talked about what Universal does. To begin with, Universal Blue uses Fedora Silverblue as a base. Aside from being a well-established base (it's been around a lot longer than Vanilla OS), it provides access to newer libraries and packages. I like it because I want to support new hardware and I want to use new container software, neither of which is can be done conveniently on Ubuntu, or even on Debian Sid (which the next version of Vanilla OS will use). Beyond that, Universal is about customization. There are a bunch of images available to support different desktop environments (whereas vanilla os is all about gnome, as I understand it), and there are instructions for developing your own image, which is where things really get interesting. All that said, the next version of Vanilla OS looks intriguing, and it may also support developing custom images for different desktop environments, albeit in a different way, and I look forward to checking it out.
@@misterdrgn5155 That's the two points taht were bothering me about Vanilla I talked about in another coment. Like, every software that rely on hardware, they're basically not available on basic OS, only on bleeding edge one, who will be on container, so what about the communication layer with a guest OS? And about gnome too. It's possible to install DE/WM but I don't want to mess up too much with host OS, I want I near pristine. So yeah, I still don't know
Thanks for highlighting this intriguing distro! I hadn’t heard about it before your informative video.
The splintered Linux eco-system has been a blessing of freedom, but a curse of splintered fragmentation - especially on the desktop. In the server room, things had coalesced much more, and arguably that’s one of the key differences in adoption rate differences. The VanillaOS approach is really interesting in how it tries to combine the best of all worlds. If the VanillaOS team can make the hardware driver layer work really smoothly, then they may have a chance to become a real difference maker. I wish them well!
I've tried many distros before like Ubuntu, Mint, Mate, JingOS, Xubuntu, Fedora, ElementaryOS, Parrot, and other. I really looking forward to most unique OS and completely different from other OS.
Nix os then
While Vanilla OS and the apx package manager is a really cool concept, for me at least, it will never be a replacement for the likes of Linux Mint or other well established distros. I can see the value in immutable file systems but I personally don't see myself daily driving such a system.
It should be noted, for anyone who doesn't know, that the AUR isn't Arch's official repository. Technically the AUR isn't a *package* repository at all but rather a collection of package building scripts made by the community.
This could solve Linux gaming. One of the biggest problems is compatability with all of the different distros. Now, with the subsystems on Vanilla OS, devs can just pick one distro to optimize their game and it will be playable by Vanilla no matter which one they choose.
This isn't what's wrong with Linux gaming. Anti cheats, less support for native titles and DRM are the issues.
@@blvckl0tcs750 the support for native titles issue is the one being fixed here. The reason not all titles are natively supported on linux is it would take too long to make the game compatible with each distro. Now, devs can just puck one distro and optimize the game for that, and if most people run Vanilla OS or something like it, they'd be able to play the game no matter what distro the devs chose.
5:54 I would absolutely love this feature on windows. The number of times Windows just decided it was time for updates (or even worse indexing 💀) is absolutely insane.
if vanilla os gets a kde spin I would try it out.
Kde is bloat and buggy
@@tapioca_santiago My problem with gnome is that it doesn't have features on wayland that I want or need, like global shortcut keys, variable refresh rate and "allow tearing" protocol, plus I want to customize my desktop which can be done much easier on kde, and something for you is bloat for someone else it's something that he needs which can only work if it's implemented in to the DE, one reason can be for why gnome is less buggy is because it's backed by companies which allowed them to have full time employees which kde didn't really had, and it's show that the current kde is not that buggy like how was it few years ago.
Good news - it will! Eventually… The next version of Vanilla is made more modular to be able to offer spins, and very likely KDE will be the first one.
@@tapioca_santiago ok and?
Honestly, all VanillaOS team has to do is fork Pamac suite so instead of Pamac Manager using pamac, it uses apx and that third-party package tab in its settings can actually mean something. I've not had difficulty understanding where any of my installed packages were coming from with that utility, and it's GTK3-based which makes it a perfect fit for use in GNOME Shell.
I'll wait for them to complete migration to Debian Sid and I really hope they will switch to rolling release because of that, but the idea looks promising, despite I would prefer ostree over abroot myself.
The fundamental idea behind this concept is basically perfect. The idea of running the things you need in secure and optimized containers is great. Once the issues smooth out things will be amazing. I feel this could be the next Mint for the new generation of computer nerds!
blendOS vs Vanilla OS? What do you think guys?
7:58 This is not a simple drawback. This is huge. You can't remember all the stuffs you installed, and by default the system should track those. This is the thing that would prevent someone from moving onto this distro.
One of VanillaOS’ major strengths and major downsides is the fact that it’s immutable and atomic. Not all people like it and not all people will switch to it, especially considering that the concept still in its infancy on Linux.
android is immutable
@@ibnu7942 Hence why I mentioned Linux. Android is a whole another beast, and does not share its userspace with Linux.
As a note: Vanilla OS is designed to simplify things for the average user, and so breaks a LOT of things for anyone who needs anything more complicated. Mounts aren't handled by fstab, adding third-party repos require you to build a custom image (unlike any other immutable distro), and the dev team is very set in their ways. If you want control of your system, Vanilla is NOT where you get it. Especially with Orchid, they have a very windows-like mentality
Fascinating conceptually, but zoom out and in the final analysis what have you got? Gnome with icons you click to run your applications. I suppose you could argue that the immutable nature makes it more stable, but then, most distros are stable nowadays. Or you could say there’s a wider variety of available software, but then again, most applications are available on any major distro nowadays. So as I see it, the immutable and container-based systems are fun to tinker with, but of no exceptional value to the end user.
It seems to me like it should be possible for the OS to keep track of what package manager was used to install it. It already knows which subsystem/container to run, so it wouldn't be that much more data.
"I SUPPORT THE CURRENT THING" wallpaper is hilarious
Installing containers for other distro's looks like an extension of Boxes but with bells and whistles.
What makes VanillaOS special is at the 1:14 minute mark, not at 0:55.
Ah crap forgot to change the timecodes
Been running VanillaOS for couple of months as a secondary os on my laptop and after setting up haven't had any major problems with it only some app and container related but those are usually quickly resolved once you find the root of the problem. Might install it in my main desktop and give it a go if manage to brake it's current distro sometime in the future 😄
Sounds like an unifier of all Ubuntu based distros, I like it.
I've tried it before, a lot of things break when you try installing packages, application icons don't show up, overall a bad experience.
Great video as always.
Off-topic: As it is a mistake I am liable to make myself as an "English is not my native language" speaker I just want to point out a slip-up you made at 11:46. You said "implication" and I am sure you meant "implementation"
This is incredible! Not only does it makes it more idiot-proof, but also allows for safely using apps from other distros. This was such a headache 20 years or so ago when I was playing around with Linux for the first time.
the note that the OS freezes when in a VM is not encouraging for something meant to be rock steady stable..
Looks like I am distro hopping one final time
Been using vanilla for a few months now and its genuinely amazing. I would highly recommend it to any first time (or not) linux user. Got my brother on it too!
I forgot what the original name of this offering was. It was first done by a team in the EU. I loved it. Cause it allowed me to get real comfortable with linux real fast. Does the live distro work on ARM laptops? I've already got a full house of distros on one computer. Well, depends on the size of this one I might be able to fit one more.
I installed Vanilla today and your video showed up I wanted it to be used for daily browser and RUclips for my projector in the hall and watch movies so it's perfect for me. (I don't want my OS to break accidentally because I try lots of software to improve my experience) I tinkered here and there with Aur I feel it has quite the potential to be a bridge to combine the different communities of Linux to come together and appreciate it 😀 probably... It would be great to have one Linux that can get everything sometimes.
Hey, please can you tell me which kernel version comes with the newest vanilla OS? Can't find the info anywhere. And if I for example use an Arch Container does it use a different arch specific kernel then or to how much of a degree is the container rootet in the Vanilla OS Kernel? Weird questions I think but my understanding of linux things is limited. For Context: I am trying out one of the new intel arc graphic cards which work very well for me on lets say POP OS with Kernel 6.2 so I must know if I should consider vanilla also
Looks like a messy solution. Instead of developing one, very good package manager, which would be an actual solution to fragmentation, they just cobbled together every package manager, good or bad, into one distro.
That Kernel partion that Vanilla creates looks interesting but I wonder how the installation handles if you are doing it on Proxmox Containers with Docker
I like the idea of using Debian as a rock-solid base while being able to use apps from other distros. Would try until it becomes more polished, until then I just stick with my Linux mint with Flatpak.
00:03 No, didn't distrohoping at all. Just Ubuntu and then Arch. Using it happily for 3 months now. Currently there might be only one "distro" worth attention: Linux From Scratch (not seriously though, at least at this moment). For Servers maybe some Red Hat derivatives, but only for customers. My own public projects will from now on run on Arch only even in production.
Also I think you didn't proper distro hoping neither, since I couldn't find an Arch review in your archive...
I will wait for the 2.0 version, but I'm already hyped!
As a long time linux user, no, no I have not been distro hopping. I used Open SUSE in 2005. I moved to Ubuntu in 2008 and kept it till 2012 when ubuntu decided to sell my desktop searches to Amazon. I stopped using linux until around 4 and a half years ago. I then moved from Windows 10 to Solus and when Solus died to Manajaro. I have distro hopped at around the same speed MS has been releasing a new version of windows. It takes a certain kind of person to distro hop - the DT kind of person, the person for whom tinkering with their OS is their hobby. I don't use linux because it's my hobby, I use it because it 's more private that Windows. BUT, at the end of the day a linux distro is still just an OS for me, it's there to facility the interaction between my hardware and my programs, and nothing else.
Wow, VanillaOS is remarkable. I really enjoyed your video. Very informative. I'm even tempted to use ValnillaOS so I can check out multiple distros. I'm gonna thumbs up this video.
This is almost exactly what I wanted Bedrock Linux to be. Awesome stuff
I haven't distrohopped for ages. I just reconfigure my Gentoo installation if I want to change something
Well, there's at least two of us ;)
Thanks for this review, Nick. I came across Vanilla OS for the first time in their article about moving to Debian.
Wow, sounds fantastic. I'll definitely be trying this out once they switch to a Debian base.
That's awesome! Sounds like something that would be worth someone doing a long term, deep dive into. I think that if it added some kind of small utility to keep track of which package managers were used for which programs, that'd help with the confusion you mentioned; just something you can open to pull up a list of programs with their installation method.
And I keep thinking that distros need some kind user manual. Preferably written with small words and as little jargon as possible. And for the jargon it does use, it should include useful and understandable definitions, even small articles if it's a particularly tricky concept. And having it available offline would be good for troubleshooting certain tricky situations. Being highly searchable would be good too, using synonyms and common misspellings to help people find what they are looking for.
The abroot command should be recommended for drivers necessary by the host OS
The only distros I've ever tried are Arch and Gentoo (I'm not counting ssh'ing into servers running Debian or Ubuntu, or using other people's Ubuntu machines). The only other ones I have seriously considered running myself are Gobolinux, Source Mage GNU/Linux, Guix System, and NixOS. Probably going to move to one of those someday, but I don't think that counts as "distrohopping a lot". I use Arch BTW
EDIT: I forgot about my GParted Live flash drive, but.. does that even count?
Void Linux has so far been the most enjoyable to use. Boot times were insane, and the responsiveness was snappier than I'd ever thought possible on that machine.
I've ultimately settled back into Arch myself, but that's only because Void doesn't use Pipewire by default and I don't want to mess with setting up audio myself.
Artix is a really good middle ground. It's just Arch with systemd swapped out for a different init system. I only ever left Artix because I didn't bother learning about anything that in depth at the time. Also of note: this and Linux Lite were the only two distros I've never experienced a problem with pulseaudio in.
Trisquel is another purely FOSS distro, if that interests you.
I work for an enterprise storage company which supports CentOS, RHEL and Rocky Linux. So I use either Rocky or CentOS but usually without a desktop. In fact I’m watching RUclips in Bash at 80x25 resolution!
For example, for a hardware-based software (for example ambient brightness detector) that isn't available on Ubuntu/Debian, how would that work out? The container would be able to communicate with the brightness detector and ask the host os to modify brightness?