THIS Is Why I'm Never Buying A Real Bass - Submission Audio UMANSKY BASS
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- Опубликовано: 13 мар 2022
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I get that it sounds great but I haven’t been able to get over the hump of the programming work. Even as a guitar player who never learned how to play bass specifically, I still find it so much easier to pick up a bass guitar and record as opposed to clicking in a bunch of notes on a grid. Maybe I’m missing something but that approach just feels like a royal pain in the butt to me.
if you aren't handy with midi then for sure. However, if you already have a very strong midi workflow, it's not much of a problem
@@sergeantslowpoke1550 this is pretty much it. i don't really use bass VSTs that often, because I own two basses and play bass just as much as I play guitar, so technically good enough to play most of what I want to play, but it really depends on how well you understand how to use a MIDI piano roll quickly and efficiently. People who program a lot can parse information quickly and translate what they're hearing into midi at pretty impressive speeds. that's not me, and i own basses anyway, but i recognize the merits of both approaches.
I use EZ Bass. it has an audio translator thing, so I can play guitar into a DI track and it will translate it into bass. I can always edit the midi additionally. but it will turn a guitar DI into bass midi, including articulations. So, sometimes I'll program a pedal note or something like a riff, but for other things like a bass run or something during a chord, I'll play the bass riff on guitar.
@@robmandel3413 EZ Bass feels like a cheat code (in a good way.) It’s crazy how good the tracking is.
my rule of thumb is to program a simple line to get an idea of where you want the instrument to go and then edit it after you track the rest of the instruments. dont be afraid of copy/pasting midi notes! I do this with drums and it helps so much with just getting everything on paper and then taking a bit of time afterwards to get it exactly how you want it. stay creative :)
As a bassist all I can say is.....the VSTs will come for you next Guitarists.
Ample Guitar VSTs are almost there...
sad but true... 😆
VSTs will never sound half good compared to a man. Neither in bass nor in guitar. The hands are doing the magic. IMO
They will, but at the same time it takes all day to program midi and you can play a song with a real instrument in three minutes. I love midi, but real ideas come from the limbic system and you need the real instrument to ask your body what is actually appropriate to play. Also, the physics of the real world inform a lot about the feelings music evokes. There are real physical laws and properties that come into play when evoking certain feelings and sensations in a listener. Making real, danceable, body-inspiring music involves moving yourself around, and bouncing real objects around, dealing with gravity, acceleration, etc. The elasticity of the fingers and human tissues comes into play, the bouncing of drum sticks informs a groove, the physical strength and tension of the player play a role in the organization of the groove and dynamics. These fake instruments will be something that can be used on records like drum triggers- sometimes yes, sometimes no. Also, eventually the whole goal will be to make vsts with extreme realism to the point where the real hipster move will come full circle back to playing a real instrument and maybe even to the point where people leave in mistakes and stuff just to feel something. Lol.
for me still sounds so robotic
pretty good for composing, creating stuff and hearing how your song can sound with actual instruments. But i wouldn't trade this for a real bass.
Still pretty cool tho
Imagine what the vst libraries will be like in 10 years
jacob umansky will come to your house to play bass for you
Well they truly are terrifying altready. The next improvements will consist mostly in making them easier to program.
Like... I use Spitfire Orchestra... And it has so many articulations that I get simply overwhelmed when I have to write something
@@CryingBlossom814 They're not quite realistic enough to convince most people that it's a real performance, yet. We'll get there, though.
Bass vsts are passable, because they provide the low frequencies needed for the mix, whereas guitar vsts aren't. They are way too robotic and, because they sound higher than bass, its way more noticeable. The human factor in guitar is more important than in bass, but bass is more necesary and, still, if you can record a real bass, go for it, it will sound 10 times better. Plus its very fun to play bass.
Next step will be AI emulating the actual playing style, i guess... 🤨
Great demonstration Keyan! That bass library sounds incredible. 🙌
Using bass midi instruments actually motivated me to go get basses because it takes way too much time to program a bass compared to just playing it and if you get a good bass you’ll get quality. These are great tools to buy you time to save up for a real bass
Back in the day of Guitar Pro 5 I just used to not write the bass on the songs I was composing simply because it was so much of a chore, unlike drums which I still can't record hah
I like to track with a real bass because it’s so much quicker, but then I convert the audio to MIDI and load up a virtual bass. Works great!
Bass midi instruments is passable, guitars are harder to replicate
I agree mate I spend 6 hours trying to make it sound natural so bought a bass soooo simple.. will it be best bass track no! But helps get the ideas down so much easier as a guitarist.
I can’t stand doing the midi clicks
You can actually use a midi keyboard and play
Its still not as fluid as a real bass would be but i will admit, i am sweating a little as a bassist 😅
The tone is sick, but I personally think it sounds robotic still as the picking is too hard on every note on the runs (you could probably minimize this by adjusting the velocity I guess). MIDI bass may be easier to mix due to very linear levels, however I don't see myself ever starting to draw every note with a mouse. Playing the bass is fun and I couldn't write music without working out the basslines on the actual instrument :) The plugin saves lots of space though if you're a person in need of various tunings, gotta admit that!
Great content Keyan!
Meanwhile Keyan gets a real Dingwall anyway because they are just fucking awesome.
Sick light set up man!!
Thank you. It's a must have :)
Sounds good but still very robotic to me, and there is something weird with the transients... I wouldn't put it on a real record, but for demos, instagram and youtube videos definitely!! I will check it out though, thanks for your continuous effort in educating all of us in the world of VST!! Awesome video as always and love the new camera angle!
Oh man, I’ve been contemplating on either getting a bass or a bass VST lately but this might’ve sealed the deal👌🏿👌🏿
I did not pull the trigger on the Grove Bass. But this. I need this.
Finally i was notified not 3 days later after new video release!!!!!!!!!
Keyan talking to DjinnBass: i don't want to play with you anymore
Hi Keyen. Love your vids. They have definitely helped me.
I just wanted to ask you or anyone in the comments out of Djinn bass or Umansky what would you prefer ?
Anybody know what the lowest tuning for this is?
I have began the 8 string journey and tend to play Drop F# down to Drop E
Edit: I looked it up for anyone wondering C0 - C5 is what is listed
Greay video! Would it also do less djenty runs as well? I want a really versatile vst
Even though I am a guitar player I find tracking bass the absolute most fun. Picked up a Dingwall NG3 and it's just a blast to play.
This reminds me of learning CAD. I love it.
This changes the game!
I’m writing a soundtrack for my video game, this could not have come at a better time, thanks Keyan!
Would love to hear a comparison between this and Djinnbass from you. Still haven‘t bought one yet but I will definitely need it.
Brooo lock and key without hybrid picking thats illegal 😱😱😱😱😱
Nice playing on the Intervals song.
This + a Jammy Midi guitar would be SUPER versatile for getting basic midi programming work done. Honestly loved my Fishman midi guitar pickup but I just didnt use it enough for various reasons.
what amp sim did you use for your guitar tone?
I used to think the same thing about every instrument coming from dubstep, although my opinion has changed since once I figured out it's not only funner, but actually a lot quicker to play something than to write something in a piano roll. Still an interesting program for those who need it
Actually discovered Intervals thanks to this video and I couldn’t thank you more. They’re sick as hell !
They're definitely my favourite band! If you haven't checked these ones out, Momento, string theory, and sweet tooth are my favourites right now. But I quite genuinely like all of their songs except for maybe 3. Learning their songs basically taught me how to play guitar hahaha.
@@finlay460 I’m really into 5-htp, DOSE and particularly Impulsively Responsible. Learning these songs on guitar feels very challenging but I just love the melodies, transitions and the feel behind the playing so much I just can’t stop trying.
@@chara6077 all great songs! It's certainly challenging alright hahaha, My eventual goal is to learn every song off the last 3 albums, so far I know 3 completely, and like bits of most of the others. Keep practicing my dude, we'll both get there! 🤘
@@finlay460 Hell yeah ! The grind never ends as they say. Good luck bro.
Question. If I rip an 8 string and rip a bass, should I just get Umansky bass and plug in and play my parts?
I like to track with a real bass because it’s so much quicker, but then I convert the audio to MIDI and load up a virtual bass. Works great!
I hate programming bass tho :/ especially after spending time programming drums. It’s just to much midi clicking.
The library does sound killer though!
Tab it on Guitar Pro and then export the midi, that's the way i work and it gets the job easier and a little bit more comfortable 😅
Sounds like more work than just drawing out the midi itself
Sounds awesome! Can it generate a bass midi track from a recorded guitar or drum track like EZbass can from tooktrack? Been shopping around for a bass vst, weighing out options.
Not that I've seen
Not a super fan of the UX but they included all the parts you want to do somewhat realistic bass tracks. But there could be a problem: I feel like the only people who will be able to make proper use of all those options are people who already know more or less how bass playing works... so mostly bassists or guitarists... who should probably just go grab a bass at that point. Like, good luck having the bass programmed this well without Jacob or another accomplished player around to do it haha. Also, great, more Dingwall basses in metal... just what we're missing... not. :)
I love Jacob and Simon but I just don't think that plugins are a substitute for them yet. I would use this how I use VST drums: begrudgingly because I don't always have a better option.
something that is suprisingly missing in these plugins is the dead mute sustain adjustment. You cant get intricate with how open you wanna mute so to say. also the slides can not be set to a stop, you can only trigger it and it always slides at a certain speed. great plugin regardless
Without a bass player, there will be no brain left in the band …
Breaking news: Bass players OD on copium.
most bands bass parts are just remedial versions of the guitar riffs. Metal is guitar muisic
This is one of the main reasons why I constantly gravitate more towards the boomer & zoomer genres. These days, the bass guitar starts sounding like a pitch-corrected DX-7 one-shot slap-bass sample from the Tracker-Amiga days instead of one of the four-five members of a complete rock/metal band.
I'm not a bassist... but I have an odd sympathy for the bass guitar in music that I compose. Do your worst with all the old-guy insults you can muster, but I'm not even middle-aged.
[EDIT] Thank you, Keyan, for an informative and educational video!
I don't think this would work very well in any genre outside of "djent"/prog. In a genre that's already ultra-processed where the bass takes absolute last place, this has its use. However, I think this would sound like hot garbage in a tech death mix for example, especially in the case of bands with really elite bassists in the genre. Just using bands I'm a big fan of as an example, After the Burial can get by without their bassist; a band like Archspire certainly can not.
This sound is almost exclusively used in modern prog metal and metalcore, however it's so overused in these genres by this point that it's kinda just getting flatout boring. It just seems like every guitar and bass tone for these albums is Dingwall, darkglass, and a 5150 style amp with Shure SM57 style microphone into a V30 style speaker. Yeah I get that it "just works" but it's still boring.
What's different about it compared to using both Djinn and Eurobass 2? Obviously the instrument is different, but at the price point of 120US I can see why people might want to work with a real bass, or a combination of Submission's existing libraries to get the sound they want
WOW!
what song is this demo from?
I used a real for tracking on quite a few of my songs. Then, I decided I was going to finally spend some money. Got me Loki 2 bass VST a bit under a month ago. Best 80 bucks I've spent in a while.
The unmansky sounds great...
Just wait, @Keyan Houshmand Live . VSTs will soon be coming for guitarists. In my opinion, this tech is cool and all but it makes it that much more important to continue buying basses and seeking real bass players for our projects. Don't let the tech render the humanity in music obsolete. Cheers.
There’s still plenty of bass players despite the vsts. Same thing with orchestral instruments, drums and so on
@@KovertCorteX Plenty of bass players? I've only ever known three. Compared to the dozens of guitarists I know, it's slim pickings when you need to find a good bassist that can dedicate themselves to your project.
@@RX120D guitar is vastly more popular in general
Guitar VST exists.
@@TempleGuitars They sure do, but have you ever heard one that sounds expressive enough to replace guitarists yet? Not quite. The best example of automated guitar is Dennis Martensson's Procedurally Generated Djent videos. Since the average goal of a djent producer is for their product to be highly mechanical sounding and, let's be real, non-human it's easy to replicate that sound with VST/Sample Libraries compared to accurately replicating older playing styles (jazz or blues stylings and expression).
It's just a matter of time before the sample libraries grow large enough that they can accurately cover extremely minute details of guitar playing. At that point, the widespread need for session guitarists will effectively die just like that need has died for drummers, orchestral instrumentalists and now bassists.
Don't get me wrong. People will always be hiring session musicians. What I'm saying is that the need for these session players for certain genres will wane to the point of insignificance. Why pay for a session musician when you can just use the software you paid $50 for that sounds just as good, right?
Hi,can you play the plugin with your guitar?
It's hard out here for the bassists haha. But yeah this plugin is great, as soon as I saw it I knew that I am going to buy it at some stage. I'll probably continue to use real bass because for me I want my music to be played by me as much as possible, but it is definitely a great demoing tool
I'm not against VST bass for personal projects but for professional work this would never fly imo. There's something to be said about the overall loss of pure musicianship in this kind of thing. Really takes the soul out of it if that means anything to you.
I think there is a lack of understating comes from that statement in that a lot of artists, especially in the modern metal and progressive metal genres, strive for this kind of perfect sound. That doesn’t detract from musicianship or soul.
@@greglmao6185 i mean in the physical form of musicianship.
I completely agree. These VST programs are likely great tools for some musicians, but I'd rather hear music being played by someone that invested time and effort into their instrument, rather than a "perfectly accurate" digital version. Even if it sounds the same, the musicality seems to go away when using these tools.
Lol you've still got the NDSP Tone King thingy in the description
So, just as a "professional" question, would you recommend this over Djinnbass, or no?
The reason I ask is because instead of spending almost $600 today on a bass guitar, I decided to take a more financially responsible option and go with a sim because I've recorded with both real and VST. I like both, but I just want an experienced answer as to which is the better value (virtually) considering they both sound fantastic.
I will always try and use a real bass in my own work, that's not a jibe it's just how I feel. Bad enough I lost my drumkit when I had a string of moves and depend on samples for drumtones. Still this is damn impressive.
TBH i really struggle with the different articulations in FL studio specifically
I want to play most instruments myself,but i can see this be useful in djent mostly,i have a 4 string jazz band,and recirding some low notes doesn't sound as good
Tone king imperial is looking mighty different today buddy
*Kmac has joined the chat
How low does she go? Is G# the lowest?
Modo Bass by IK Multimedia is pretty nice too
DO U HAVE A RECORDING COURSE
This sounds fantastic! But Im sad theres no picking articulation. Everything except for that 😂
I definitely think it sounds more realistic compared to djinnbasss, however I am torn between Grovebass and Umanskybass now 😳😩
i feel bad too. its hard being the coolest member of the band.
Using Trilian for bass for years, I concur.
I got djinnbass awhile ago, it's pretty good but it cuts through the mix a bit too much out the gate, but this one has more parameters and range of dynamics so I think it's gonna be a great replacement
Agreed. Djinn has this chirpy sound in the high mids that I always find myself having to work at taming but I don't hear that in this one and it makes me really tempted to buy it.
@@nathanrogers9462 EXACTLY chippy is the perfect adjective. I reckon I'll download this one later this month though, I have Trillian and it's still my go to sample bass vsti
It's so funny I got a "learn how to play bass" commercial before this video
Thanks for watching guys!
You can check out Umansky Bass here: bit.ly/3mdH3xN
Also, I've been reading comments saying that this sounds robotic. Despite the fact that this would've been sampled to absolute perfection by Jacob as he is a MONSTER consistent player, throughout the entire video and demo track the Humanizer knob was set to "MACHINE" for the entire video, meaning that it will literally playback like a robot or "Machine". On top of that, all of the velocities on the MIDI were set to max for all notes throughout the video.
This plugin CAN sound robotic, if you set it that way. It also CAN sound like an inconsistent human player, if you set it that way. There is the ability to set the realism further down to "Human" and "Bassist" which both allow more string noise and variations to appear within the playback of Umansky bass. As mentioned before, you can also set the velocities to fluctuate, where you WILL hear a tonal difference between light and heavy playing, depending on how you set the velocities for each note.
Thanks for watching!
Cool man. I don't even recored guitar because it is Useless to do so. Our band don't even use guitars/bass in the performance but VST instead. Even the drummer don't use the drum kit but a vst, and we also have a secret. We don't compose the music, we have an A.I. to do it for us. It dose everything for us. Composing, recording, and mixing in real time. We place a laptop on the stage and give it orders from the backstage that's it.
It also gets all the girls after the shows...
😀
Hallo, i have a problem of triggering the slide articulation. There is the b-2 to trigger the slide. But the lowest keyy on fl studio piano roll are just until 0. Hope u can give me some solution.
@@rizkimulyadi40
Change from fl studio to something else.
Sounds great to me. Not robotic at all. Just really clean technique between slaps and non slaps. I may have to get this
@@rizkimulyadi40 FL Studio for some strange reason not have the standard octave numbering of piano roll... they decided to move two octaves up... On FL Studio B-2 is B1
Only goes down to g#?
this is awesome i am depressed now
Yeah it sounds amazing but you kind of summed it up yourself in your opening "there's heaps of articulations etc you can program to make it sound more like the real thing". Ive used eurobass before and while I love the sounds personally I find it much easier to track bass parts for demos than I do programming midi for bass parts and all the articulations. If it's efficient for your own workflow the story is probably different but it seems a hell of a lot easier to plug a bass in and play it.
Sounds sick, but playing bass is even more sick. I get it, I use Slate drums, I add other virtual instruments to my music. So for someone who doesn't play bass, this could be a big help. But I feel like if you already play guitar, bass is the same concept so why not play it? Maybe I'm biased, I played guitar and bass pretty much right from the beginning so I didn't have the same issue that other guitar players do (but like really though, if you play guitar, just play bass as well. Especially if you want to record music. Thank me later.). I dunno, this VST has "that sound" that's all over every other modern metal recording. And while it's a good sound, I definitely wouldn't want it on my recordings because sounding like everyone else is not the most desirable thing in the world.
Well yeah, but bass strings cost like gold
@@RandomChanel6150 I spend more on guitar strings in a year, which isn't hard to do when you have two 6 strings (with another in the works) and an 8 string. You can get away with using older bass strings. Of course, there's nothing like new bass strings, but if you're writing an album, for example, record all of the bass tracks within a couple days and then you won't have to change the strings again for months. And you only need one bass. My Squier Jazz does just fine, you do have to think outside the box a bit with only one bass though.
No worries, mate. As a bassist who is terrible at bass, we forgive you.
Here I am thinking "Djinnbass is fine and just as good..." I heard that DI tone.... It sounds VERY authentic this one in comparison to djinnbass
I was just about to go and buy a modern j bass and learn to play like umansky…
You just bought one hehe
I literally just bought Eurobass last week.
Hey Keyan, I really appreciate if you do some tutorial on guitar editing in FL studio. I really enjoy watching your videos it's really resourceful. Thanks.
👀👀
i love thinking about how many bands are just gonna be one member and a backing track once its normalised for on stage shit too far XD
None of these plugins ever do Drop G 😭😭
MIDI PACK REQUIRED.
Anyone else think it sounds like old Sega games? Streets of rage? Great if you can't play bass. If u can though.. please buy and use a bass.
It’s all cool, but this will never replace the “joy” of playing an instrument. It’s just a question of if you’re “hunting a particular sound” OR you just want to have fun playing.
It sounds great. Personally I will stick to playing and recording my bass JUST because as I’ve grown up I still haven’t forgotten the joy I felt for the first time I picked up an instrument. The thrill of playing and getting lost in sounds is the only reason I play. You can’t replace that feeling by programming virtual instruments
Programming drums is boring enough for me, For me, playing bass is much easier, or using a drop pedal. But I understand that this can be useful for some people. Options are good.
Considering how much fun bass is to play, I dunno why you'd ever want to program it.
The best simplistic comment on this topic. I bought the plugin though but only because of sheer necessity being on the road traveling from one country to another, seems to be the only reason to want to program it.
Owns Djinbass... Owns Grovebass... Do I REALLY need another bass sim...???? ... Yeah probably.
You don't gotta feel sorry for us. After all, a bass is merely a writing tool. You write differently when you have have the limitations bass gives you. You should try it, even if you ultimately end up using the bass midi in your songs, no reason you cant use an actual bass to figure out your writing. There is just something about those clanky cables that makes you see music differently
Yeah, just like a car in GTA. It sounds like a car...
"Bassicly"
"Sound better"... If you want it to be perfect I guess. More precise≠more good.
I am sorry this sounds like general midi slap bass from guitar pro.
Yeah - it still sounds pretty fake at 2:32 - that high run. Basses don't sound like that. Sounds more like a keyboard/synth unfortunately. The lower tones sound much better, though.
My one argument….you cant acoustically play a VST. I can take my basses anywhere. I can play with those quarter inch plug and play “headphone amps”. I’m complicated and would rather have a wide variety of actual instruments with different set ups over a VST due to practicality and feel while playing. Tbh though, I would gladly use this if I didn’t have anything other than a guitar, and I can see the appeal to someone like a home/solo artist, or someone who may not be able to afford a new instrument. I have to say though, outside of a recording environment, this has no use, so I wouldn’t worry if I were a bassist. Take my 6 string bass and use a VST to make it sound like a guitar. It may work, but do that without a program or some kind of modeler. Honestly though, despite my nit picks, if this is what it takes for someone to make music, have fun and to be inspired, that’s all that matters in the end. I just think everyone should own at least one of every instrument that interests them and should learn to play them, purely for the enjoyment of if. Each one feels different and plays different. For me, that’s where the creativity comes from.
Finally first!!!!!!!!
I never understood why some bass players want to produce frequencies outta Bass range? You & the Kick Drum are married. I do however appreciate going to a low B. 👍💪
Yeah, it’s just a matter of time before they do the same to guitar.
Great writing tool for demos but its deffo missing something you get from an actual bass player with the same tone.
This is really cool!! Almost as cool as programming guitars on keyboards and getting rid of the guitar players, hahaha!!
I'm just being an ass here. It's very cool, and impressive.... but it's not the same.
This is nuts, programming is basically an instrument these days. I gotta say I don't really like that. I'm a generation away from this stuff honestly, so I guess my bias plays a part. Real bass players are a dying breed apparently lol. Not knocking u Keyan, seriously. You're a beastly musician
* buys a real bass a few months later 😂
Sounds like the Hydra guitar plugin just playing a bass midi. I guess thats ok but to me it dose not sound like a real bass at all. I have played bass most of my life and it has never sounded like that real bass sounds more alive from note to note and with feel.
Why is the world waging war on us bass players!?
Sounds very robotic and I only see this working for metal, industrial, or electronica.
lmao the "sounds robotic" comments, when the humanize knob is set to 0, and you're listening to an isolated, raw MIDI sound