Bending Cams; Common Customer Complaints
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- Опубликовано: 17 янв 2024
- We discuss a recent complaint of a customer bending his cams due to him either dry-firing his bow, or derailing it. We discuss common lies and complaints for cams bending. We discuss the breaking strength of strings and how it's impossible for it to just 'snap.'
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"The customer is always right" has ruined a lot of people's day on both sides of the sales counter.
I have my own business.
The customer is hardly ever right. The customer often doesn't know what they need.
I have no filter. I tell them the truth, unfiltered.
It upsets some, most appreciate my honesty.
I had a wonderful experience with your store Steven, Ryan was no end of help to me with a warranty claim for a bottom cam for my bow tech reckoning, the lock screw for the cam lock adjuster became stuck half in and half out not only was I surprised they did it under warranty but I was not shocked that it cost me a hundred dollars at my local bow shop (Archery Essentials WA) to have it fitted and re timed and have the strings and cables checked for length. People’s time is valuable and in my opinion it is only fair in a business to charge for your time. Keep sending the message. Love your work.
I own a small firearms company and I’ve had to fire clients in the past. People are completely unreasonable with their demands.
Firearms...... Fire at a client? seems a bit over the top! LOL
I bought my first compound over 40 years ago. Been shooting a long time. Last August I dry-fired at a comp and did the cams. It happens. My fault. My cost. Spoke to the guys at AS and explained what happened. They expedited the new cams for me. Nice bunch of people.
I also dry fired once. Someone spoke to me just as I was about to knock an arrow and it broke my shot sequence - and I let go without an arrow.
My. Fault. No question.
Luckily my cams survived coz I had it wound down to ~56-57lb at the time, so the bow (70lb) was doing it easy.
I just can't understand why people openly lie and try to defraud people because of their own stupidity. These people make the world a worse place for everyone.
Bowstring builder here, sadly this is something I've also had to deal with in the past; people just don't get that if in the stretching process the strings didn't break, its impossible for them to break out of the blue, my string are stretch at way higher loads that they ever see in a bow, I've even tested with string under 400lbs for 24h and they are completely fine afterwards, and even if the break it isn't sudden there are always signs of wear, if you take care of your equipment and operate it correctly a sudden break will never happen
(Great content as always, you're one of the few reliable sources of info in the archery industry, always being honest, keep it up)
I'm trying to get some more opinions on how long strings should last as I seem to be finding conflicting data.
Can I ask for your opinion on when I should get my bow's restrung? I have a Mybo Origin compound for 50m Target, and a Bear Legit for field. Both are set for 29" draw and fairly light at 45 lbs. The target bow see's around 100 arrows per week and the field bow around 50. I wax the strings every few months.
I'm currently thinking I should get both bows done around every 2 years? Or can I go longer as long as I don't see any signs of fraying?
Any advice would be appreciated 👍
I actually can see where cams from factory still have a bur and the string runs across that resulting in cut string and destroyed bow.
For good makers I am sure its extremely rare, but no quality control is 100% perfect, as for cheap chinese bows... I suspect it happens far more often.
@@givemeanameman1 well I have bad news, in the last year we've gotten three stratos where the cables were being cut by the cam, also, 2 of those bows were given by Hoyt themselves for factory staff, so you would think QC would be better.
@@manueltoro5996 that doesnt sound good.
Unfortunately there will always people that try and take advantage of stuff like this. We always charge less for people that don’t bs on what happened. We have also just bought the bow back and did what you did telling them you don’t have to shop here anymore. It would truly be refreshing if someone would just come out and say what really happened.
Bow technician here, here are my observations from customers. Some customers install a sharp peep with burrs, others move their peep or anything install a peep without putting the bow in a press. This can cause the string to snap at the peep. Some customers pull too hard while tying their nocking points (pulling serving material with a tool) or dloop material, stretching the dloop with a tool way too hard. Others cut serving material (with a razor or sharp knife) way too close to the string or angled down towards string. Please please please! stop compromising the strings, out of the factory strings are incredibly strong as stated in this video. If you dont have the tools to safely press your bow, don't try installing, changing or moving your peep, do not use tools to stretch dloops and serving material, if you do use something like dloop pliers, very little pressure goes a very long way. Be gentle.
I'm trying to get some more opinions on how long strings should last as I seem to be finding conflicting data.
Can I ask for your opinion on when I should get my bow's restrung? I have a Mybo Origin compound for 50m Target, and a Bear Legit for field. Both are set for 29" draw and fairly light at 45 lbs. The target bow see's around 100 arrows per week and the field bow around 50. I wax the strings every few months.
I'm currently thinking I should get both bows done around every 2 years? Or can I go longer as long as I don't see any signs of fraying?
Any advice would be appreciated 👍
@@austinrhubarb I get where you're coming from. You'd like an answer that says when to replace them, I wish I could give you an exact answer. But there are usually signs that strings should be replaced. If your end servings are separating, if at your peep there are loose strands, if where you nock your arrow your serving material has some bulk to it, could be a strand unraveling under serving, if your dloop ate into your center serving and compromised the strands. Generally I see fuzziness on various string materials, hasn't always been a concern, a loose strand or bulkiness under serving could be a sign of a string failing. (Never move a peep without pressing the bow, or you'll likely cut strands) Generally every year to every year and a half is a good guideline for replacing strings, if you don't see any signs I mentioned above. If you see those signs (of string compromise) it's like driving with a bulge in your tire. 100 arrows per is week and 45lb is not much. But you just have to be diligent in inspecting anything that might look or feel off. Condition of strings might be impacted with how the bow is stored (never store the bow in a hot car) or if the bow is just thrown in the trunk, and if the bow is shot in the rain often, or components like a cable slide having burrs on it. Check your Axle to Axle spec once in a while to ensure you're within spec. If your axle to axle is longer than your spec, could be a sign a strand or serving is coming loose. Again I wish I had a simple answer for you. But the condition of strings is like tires with tread size, tire rot, sidewall wear, bulge in sidewall, etc.
@HumanTimeMachine ... I really appreciate the effort you went to in answering me dude, cheers.
My bows never get wet and are always well stored, so they are about as pampered as could be.
You gave me some good tips for extra things to check (like changes in axle distance or bulging under the serving) so I'll also monitor those, and work on the principle that anything other than very light fuzzing should be treated as a problem.
My bow shop is a 2 hour drive each way (i.e. a whole day off work for any bow work), and each restring job is around £100 per bow, so I think I'll just stick to regular thorough visual inspections, and if everything looks OK, I'll take the minor risk and stick to 2 year windows.
Thanks again 👍
Amen brother. I’m the lead tech at a shop here in Texas. We see exactly what you’re seeing. Keep spreading the good word sir, love your videos.
Yes, I've dry fired. Took it into the shop. Laughingly told them my mother in law dry fired it. The cams were fine but I bought string and cables. And yes, I fessed up to it. All you can do is kick yourself. If dry firing your bow is all you have to complain about, you have no complaints.
Why did you dry fire?
@@knightrider6473Why? It wasn't on purpose.
Awesome that you ratted your Mum in law. Also awesome she can draw a 70lb bow
Wow this guy is the best 👌.
I enjoy watching he's videos I wish I could meet him in person
The only honest vendor on YT.
He's had multiple distributors punish him for telling the truth.
Archery pro shops are limited in Australia. Respect your local pro shop they are there to help. I live in rural Australia have to set up my own bows, purchasing bow press etc.. and learning how to use it. Wish I had pro shop near me. Unfortunately compound bows are getting into the wrong hands. they are not a toy. great video mate. 👍👍
You may enjoy listening to Professor Dutton (the Jolly Heretic). He discusses the decline in IQ of the general population, that leads to behaviours like this...
Darwinism doesn't do its job anymore coz the government pays idiots to survive now.
I love these kind of videos you make
Ha ha, your video is spot on. Sooo many people in our sport these days that have this weird attitude.
So "1970's compound bows shoot like shit". Thankyou very much, I thought it was me.
After only 1 minute listening I was thinking: bollocks, a string does not snap just like that!!
These must be dry-fires!… only, it does! Surprise me that many customers would experience/do dry-fires …?
That`s a very reasonable price point. As a costumer I would say "thank you so much" after all it was my mistake. People come with all kind of excuses to rip you off. Which is just disgusting.
I still don't understand how you forget to load an arrow.
Its clear as day in your vision and its part of the process.
I've never had an issue..
I had someone talk to me just as I was about to nock an arrow (and I was using a bow quiver for the first time) and it broke my shot sequence.
I also assume because my peripheral vision included my quiver that my brain just put 2 and 2 together and came up with "good to go".
The guy talking to me didn't notice either.
It can happen.
Never happened since though 😂
Give it some more time
A mixture of being distracted pre shot and then being so focused on your draw/form
@@jeffrylotz138 😃
Even shooting to light or improperly spined arrow is not great for the bow long term.Most cams today are made so light to get the higher speeds that they will bend and or crack with a dry fire.I have heard of a couple of company fixing a bow under warranty if dry fired but most companies will not.
Dry Fired my Elite Verdict due to stupidity on my part, ate humble pie and owned up to the shop and paid for the repair. The force on the limbs and the shock the bow gets when dry fired is quite frightening and very powerful. Luckily my Limbs where fine but Cams needed to be exchanged plus a new string. I guess some people will tell any lie to get out of paying for damage they caused themselves. Don't worry about the cost of repairing the bow the teasing at the club every weekend will last a lot longer than the memory of how much it cost.
Between my son and I, we have had four dry fires on bowtech reckonings. No problems with the cams but string broke twice. Bo-tech cams are made of 70 75 aluminum which is twice the strength of 6061. Most bow companies make their cams out of 6061
Most dry fires i see and have experienced are due to bad nocks. Nock breaks, energy isn't transferred to the arrow, result is a dry fire. Saw that in my club two days ago. Happened to me with a new bow and old arrows. Bow was ruined of course. From this day (10 years ago) I always check my nocks and change them as soon as they have the slightest dent or whatever. Never had a problem since then.
Yup.
I had a nock fail.
I had the bow checked over. No damage.
I made a new string and cable set as they were getting old.
I was prepared to pay for the repair.
in general, I agree with you, however, there are some quality limitations wrt Mathew's zebra strings: their centre serving can be so soft, that you can't apply the same tension for tying in D-loop knock points you would normally use for other brands. The zebra string centre serving can be so weak and soft, that the knock point serving will cut through the centre serving and can also start cutting single strands of the string - over time and thousands of shots the zebra string may become so weak that it will break! If you are not aware of this flaw it is highly unlikely that you will notice the broken strands as all the damage is covered by the centre serving till one day the string breaks during a shot (without dryfiring the bow). Mathews may have addressed the flaw in the meanwhile (I don't buy Mathew bows anymore) but bows with zebra strings you could buy 3 years ago were still prone to this issue, especially if you shoot many arrows at a higher poundage and a longer draw length.
Hey mate another great video I am fearly new to archery and I have heard about bows exploding through dry firing as u mentioned u also mentioned something about if u torque your bow it cn happen 2 or is this just when dry firing cheers melvyn
I think almost all archers that shoot bow and arrow for years, will at some point experience a dry fire. I have been practicing archery for about 38 years. Mostly with recurve. I had a PSE compound bow some years, around 33 years ago - shot with fingers. But else I have only consistently shot compound bow for appr. 14 years. In all that time I have only dry fired a bow 2 times, both times with a camless leverbow, so far never with a compound bow. But yes, it is possible to forget to put an arrow on the bow. Sometimes you realize it when you draw the bow / before you shoot the bow - from time to time, not.
1:23 OR you had a faulty peep with a burr on it, There was a batch of the high end peeps having unfinished string contact areas, with tiny "burr"s that chewed up the strings. They were eating the cost of anyone string that found a burr.
I had a partial dry fire.
The nock broke as I shot.
The arrow still hit the boss but not where I was aiming and that loud noise and a nock ear was missing.
I had the bow checked over.
Zero damage.
I made some new strings n cables as they were getting old anyway.
I was prepared to pay for damaged parts.
Dry fires happen.
It's up to the archer to foot the bill.
People are probably not checking their knocks and catching them when they break, leading to a dry fire.
I think some people with no moral compass or integrity, watch too many TV adverts with insurance claims. I seriously would hate to have one of these types shooting any weapon near me.
Absolutely not debating any of this. Its pretty obvious.
My question is: Do you see this with Prime cams with the 2 string tracks?
(No! I am not going to test this 😅)
Short axle to axle are the biggest issue. They try and letdown string and it derails.
Totally customer fault. I dry fired a bow diamond infinty pro twice. Second time it exploded in my hand and string broke. I have a scare on my hand now. It was totally my fault I was new and had only been shooting a few weeks at the time. I got in a rhythm and had shot a few hundred arrows a day. The only thing I blame the shop for is they didnt tie the peep in. It came out in the first dry fire and cut a few strands second time I think I had them tie it in but the damage had been done. I did not blame them for anything heck I didnt even complain about them not tieing in the peep the first time. I bring it up as something they should do but that is their choice. I later bought a altus from them and continue to go their. Ultimatly I needed to improve.
60 lbs bow btw. and cams bent too. I got a new bow because it would have cost me more to replace cams and strings than I paid for bow
Why did you dry fire?
I would like to work for you as a Customer Relations Officer, when I hear an unbelievable story I will generally fall on the floor laughing. That should tell the customer to come up with a better story and go tell someone who cares. Best advice you can give a newbie, go join a club ABA, AAA or 3DAAA.
That would never happen with my Prime bows. They have the split string that goes around the dual cam on the top & bottom. But it makes it a real pain for dealers cuz it's 7 parts that have to work together for the strings & cables when u replace them. Bow shops lose Prime & now the Prime dealer in my area is also a string maker & will not put the factory strings on my Centergy & Nexus 4. So I'm going to box them up & send them to Prime. Hopefully they will be able to find a couple of young archers & fit them with the cam size they need & new strings & cables. I have a CT-5 which I enjoy shooting with new strings & cables. But that will be my last compound. I enjoy shooting the ILF bows & that's how I will finish off my career with Archery 🎉😮.
I started participating in archery in 1980, that time I have had 1 dry fire in about 2013 I allowed myself to get distracted by the others in my squad totally my fault.
Luckily the only thing that happened was the peep disappeared into the bush no damage to cams string or limbs very fortunate retired for the day went home fitted a new peep and back in business, I still use that same Bowtech today.
I wouldn’t dream of trying to blame the shop for my error.
Fess up and move on.
In my experience most people refuse to take responsibility for their actions, they blame other people or claim the product is defective. I tend to do the opposite , I always think, what did I do wrong ? After over 40 years of archery I dry fired and derailed 2 bows, I had no problem admitting to it, both were low poundage bows , so, no damage was done , just put stings and cables back on and both shot like it never happened. People , just Steven a break and fess up to your mistake !
My bow cam broke in two, maybe too much tension but the waxed bowstring is still good? Why cam splintered?
Never seen a bent cam. Associate with a dealer hear. If I did it I would expect to pay, I broke it. But I don’t try to pull too much. Even when I was younger at 210 lbs at 5 7. Lifted weights forever. Never shoot over 70 lbs no point.
New to compound bows dry fired twice I guess the arrow didn’t snap in .no damage at low poundage but took 10 years off my life😢😢😢😢😢
Stupidity is never under warranty. Treat people the way you wanna be treated. My bow shop is 50$ an hour.
Why would a 'customer' take YOU to court instead of the manufacturer of that bow that offers the warranty?
People have taken you to court over that?
OMG,,,,
Welcome to the real world
Why are so many people dry firing their bows.. The warnings are usually everywhere in the manuals and leaflets lol
I was just about to write the same thing. They can't see there is no arrow before they shoot? Lol.
You think people read the manual!?
@@thenameiwantedwastaken if they are new, they should
Does shooting with fingers possibly cause derail? Fingers roll the string and cause this?
It can do but you'd have ro really shit at the release, I shoot compound barebow and have never de railed a bow shooting fingers, even bows that have really shallow string grooves
Not to start crap but didn't hoyt have a video of them dry firing a bow like 100 plus times?
0% torque on the bow and perfectly straight mechanical release in that video that you're mentioning. Even with that perfect testing machine, I still wouldn't risk it
I shot those old bows I will take my modern cams anyday
Order left handed stuff
Hello, toyota i did mad donunts in my hilux and now you owe me a new engine cause it should be tough enough to handle mad skids
Stop dry firing….. simple
People simply dont have enough education about archery. PERIOD.
lol It should be law to take a course before buying a bow, just like a firearm.
They are shooting way to much poundage and don't take the time to learn properly.
So many people know nothing about archery or its equipment.
I give a each customer a package which includes tones of info about archery do's and don't's, equipment knowledge, local laws and much more.
I make dam sure they know before they leave the store.
In America customers like that simply get laughed at by the whole staff.
Yeah sure.
From an engineering standpoint bending cams could be seen as a good thing. The energy stored in the bow has to go somewhere, always. The cams are eating up the energy which deforms them. Without that another part of the bow will fail, which cut be much worse. I've seen broken risers and heard from a guy he broke his wrist because his bow snapped in half. He hold firmly onto the grip at that moment und that was enough to break his bones. Splintered limb flying around could ruin your day and health too.
Just sell bues no prob. No warranty