ya well Steve said max of 60 and it hit 70 so ya. but yes people wonder why companies will work with cleetus iti is because when he breaks stuff he is generally at or past the max the part maker specified so really it is a good test for all parts
Doesn't anyone remember this engine had thrust issues from the first run in Mullet? Remember when Steve had to go down there and check it out when they found material in the pre-filter and the thrusts were getting hammered then. He even went to Mr Sam's and lapped them to give it more clearance.
I agree with all of you boys all good points. Perhaps if the torque converters pushing too hard. Maybe there should be an additional thrust bearing around the torque converer. As for the grenading of all the connected rods that will do it too. If it wasn't related to a previous grenade it would Need more advanced timing st certain rpm, inorder to insure it's completely ignited before BDC.. The stress cracks look like Like they started to crack when it was at bottom dead center on each of The Strokes still going into power explodingForce is pushing down or is it the inertia to 70PSI that's a lot.
@@teknoaija1762 it was due to bad connecting rods. He hade just switched to a different brand, and i think 2 of his builds broke bad. Then he switched back to the previous brand and stuff didn't break like that anymore.
Materials engineer here... In my opinion the crank breaking in that way looks like a fatigue failure from vibration. Either a weird rpm range issue like the springs you had a while back, running hard on 7 cylinders, or leftover stress from the original rod failure you had before you sold it to cleetus. Also having the crank unsupported like that it could have started to crack on the drive if it was already close to its fatigue limit.
Isn't it at least a little embarrassing that you feel the need to state your 'profession" and how it makes you an expert, yet you have zero related videos on your channel? Not even a little?
@@eriklarson9137so what you are saying is because he's not a u-tuber he isn't an engineer and doesn't know what he's talking about.....step away from the keyboard son....
Steve, when you were talking about making the crank a table, I remember seeing one at a Porsche museum where they had a flexplate on the bottom, the crank, and then the crank was attached to a beautiful Porsche rim with the tabletop glass on top of the rim
I think multiple breaks and fractures are from a harmonic vibration. Possibly caused by a dead cylinder. I’ve had and racers have had multiple valve springs break at a particular RPM for an extended dwell and not necessarily an extreme RPM just 1 that puts that harmonic through it.
Cleetus drove it from one track to the next on 7 because of a valve train issue with one cylinder. That extended vibration is probably what did it in. I wonder which broke first, the crank or the caps?
Harmonics are a bitch, one of the reasons Jesel timing belts are really nice since they don't transfer harmonics to the valve train the way a chain or gears do.
The thrust bearing failure and the crank cracks are the same problem, axial load along the crank. All the cracks were on the inside, which is where you'd see bending from a strong axial/thrust load.
That's what I was thinking, but wouldn't they be compressed on the inside and crack on the outside? Inside would be more from stretching the crank. To me more likely is the main caps failed first, and so ignition near TDC was pushing the crank downward a bit more than it's ready for. Supported well at the ends and free near the middle would crack in the same place.
Cracks in the crankshaft.....VIBRATION! Vibration will break ANYTHING We had one run on our A/Fuel dragster that vibratted so bad it broke the air scoop, two mag 44 caps and a bunch of other stuff! Driver did NOT FEEL IT! Love your videos! Keep them coming! Very entertaining and informative! Thank You!
I was thinking that's how the main cam loss it's nuts off the studs when he had bad tire shake because the one shake that he had shook most of the oil pan bolts loose an some were even missing when they did a nut and bolt check after that. but he don't run big tire slicks he runs 225 radials
Must love Steve. It was awesome u showing up to plates and 28’s. That was amazing for us to support Bill at old man garage with that event. Love what u do. Thankx again
This engine looking at Steve saying: "I'm tired, boss. Tired of bein' on the road, lonely as a sparrow in the rain. I'm tired of never having me a buddy to be with, to tell me where we's going to or coming from, or why."
Glad to see you at Edgewater, I had so much fun! Thanks for coming, it was a pleasure to meet you, Val and Dewey. All of you were delightful, Hope to see you guys again soon!
I feel like you are spot on with the caps breaking while driving. They probably became weak when running it and then the harmonics of street driving caused them to brake fully allowing the crank to have a different harmonic and fracturing it in multiple places. Its pretty crazy what can happen with power.
Yeah, something shoved that crank forward with TREMENDOUS force. And not all in one quick hit. Not only was the rear thrust bearing destroyed, the rear crank thrust surface is totally blackened, indicating it got a ton of heat. Plus that "diamond thrust shim" that got basically friction-welded to the back of the crank.
Appreciate the thoughtful diagnosis of the components and pushing people to think logically. The harmonics and forces that are on the crankshaft running down the road and down the track vary. It would be interesting to be able to measure that. It’s hard to think that a big piece of steel in flexing and twisting. Thanks for the Video, Steve.
Cleetus must have had something really bad going on with his transmission/flywheel/converter. That's the only thing that would cause the damage to that thrust bearing like that. It's like the transmission was trying to push the converter through the engine lol. Your roller bearing in the front cover stopped it.
I wonder if something is pushing the drivetrain of Mullet forward or if his converter is ballooning or something. I think, just a seasoned GM mechanic here, the thrush went out, then the crank broke, then the caps broke on the drive. Just my .02. Something killed the thrust bearing and it killed the crank at 70 psi. Just watched the end of the video of the diamond disk. Makes more sense to me now too. He’s got something going on inside the transmission or something pushing hard as hell forward on that crankshaft.
I dont think forward thrust caused the caps to break or crank cracks. Sure it might have wiped out the thrust bearing in then back but if the thrust went further forward it would have caused the piston arms to be on an angle giving wear evidence in theomir bearings. Also there would be excessive damage to the sides of the main caps from the crank arms pushing on them. There is no doubt that forward loading happened but it doesnt seem to have gone past the thrust bearing in the back. I kind of think the damage was done when the engine popped the first time before cleet got it.
Maybe that lockup converter that was in mullet on the thrust ? The diamond shim welded, the crank cracked everywhere, maybe it is too much lugging on road drives ?
I know it's weird, but i love seeing local places on youtube. Sending the crank to Marne, where i grew up going to Berlin Raceway, is just awesome to me.
Looking at that diamond plate, I personally would be VERY curious to see what the flex plate looked like. I have to wonder if something to do with Garretts transmission is funky. Like maybe when the converter locked up it some how slammed that converter body forward. Regardless, there was something unique to Mullet happening that caused a lot of unusual shock to the bottom end of that engine. One suspicion I do have. I don't believe that Mullet is a dual rail car ( therefore less rigid ). I have to wonder if on launches, the chassis flexed in such a way that the driveline crammed the internals of the transmission forward. I know that the converter always pushes forward anyway, just really seems like more than that was at play here.
Cleetus said that’s the reason why he took the SMX out was because it was starting to tear the car apart. It wasn’t built for that much power in the front, it was originally built to have a jet engine in the bed. The whole reason he started with an El Camino. They changed from a jet engine because the company he bought the engine from had one of their female racers crash and die while they were building Mullet.
@@mikehunt3222 There was more to that story. That was also right after Jessi Combs was killed and his family begged him to change course. What you said though in my mind just reinforces my thoughts on the matter. Plus I know for a fact that Mullet could never really make use of the power levels that the SMX delivers.
really enjoying the in depth videos. The liitle tidbits about the diamond infused shim, etc. Ouch on needing new crank!! You need to ignore/delete the small handfull of jerks leaving rude comments. Responding to them in video is just feeding them for more!! The larger majority of us appreciate the time your spending to make these videos!! PS : Would like to see a video on the machining work to install those new replacable lilfter bore inserts!!
10:44 i absolutely 100% agree with the guy who inspected that crank that I’m surprised it’s not in multiple pieces. I’ve done alot of mag particle inspection (which is what “magnfluxing” a block means, magnaflux is just a name brand) but seeing those cracks where they were at and how big there were I really am surprised it didn’t completely break. I think that’s a testament to the materials Steve uses and the engineering behind the man caps, I know that dosent really keep it from breaking into pieces but it does support the crank and if there was any kind of poor engineering or bad machine work then this is where it would really show. So yea for this thing to run as fast as it was and as hard as it was it’s amazing it’s in one piece with those kinds of cracks on the crank, I was expecting maybe a half in crack at most which still would have been a good one of you ask me but not half way around each and every journal.. lol
I think the only reason it didn’t come apart is it most likely happened while road driving. If he’d have made a pass like that it would’ve EXPLODED. Multiple cracks like that, when it did come apart probably would’ve ripped that entire block apart.
The Cap would not stop a broken crank the crank stayed together because the crank materials. I'm not sure if it's a Callies or Bryant crank but it held up good considering
If I remember right they had issues with a converter and the bypass for a while with too much pressure. Makes sense the damage seen if you think about it. Even though you have the roller thrust bearing to keep it from moving forwards. All that pressure and flash / fast heating a cold shaft could easily compress that crankshaft in the journals causing cracks like that. The fact it stayed as straight as it did is a testimony to your design and machine tolerances holding it in place that securely not allowing wiggle room to further flex and let it all cut loose.
Looks like you need to design and incorporate an external thrust bearing between the flywheel/flexplate and the rear of the block to control torque converter thrust to the crank before it can axially flex it to the point of failure.
I am no builder but I wonder if his torque converter issues played into this…. Remember when he had really high pressures that was pushing the torque converter into the crank and I think it wore down the thrust bearing and Steve came out and fix the bearing. Wonder if the compression of the crank while taking a rotational load let to these stress cracks on the crank.
Crank thrust I'd like to see a distance sensor attached to the front of the crank during a run. I'm wondering if releasing the trans brake causes a spike in thrust or even on decell. A more difficult but probably possible is a laser distance sensor looking at the flex plate for movement. Issue there is that the flex plate isn't a finely ground surface and will have some wobble.
I’m mean the rad you got of ole cleeter putting America’s foot in the floorboard all bs aside you make one hell of a engine to run on 7 cylinders with broke main caps and a broke crank was still running 😮wow
Anvil companies should hire Cleet to stress test their products because I GUARANTEE if they could hold up to him than they could actually advertise as unbreakable. 😂
I used 3/4 plexiglass drilled an taped the harmonic balancer . Bolt the plexiglass to the harmonic balancer on my 572 Keith black crank shaft an all aluminum rods used over size rod bearing to hold the rods and pistons in place . Heavy end table. Awesome tho. 😊
I worked at ROWE Foundry in Martinsville, Illinois for 38 years. We made so many ductile castings for HAAS CNC Bases I can't recall the exact number, but it was an average of 25-30 castings a week for many years. I retired in 2019. It's owned by a National Fork Lift Company now. I ordered a SM Hat tonight too! Happy Halloween Steve!!
Another crazy htought on the thrust flange failure: The individual cylinder firings are creating a "torque signature" so high the crank is stretching and releasing (like when you torque a rod bolt and measure stretch). Could also be the reason for the crank cracks.
Steve you are awesome Bud, with your give aways. My thought on the broken crank is the front and rear bearings were secure on the crank journals and because the crank journals caps were broke in the middle, the harmonics and slight movement of the crank by the rods caused the crank to crack. And the drive was easy on the bearings on the crank. As for the thrust bearing flange brakeage, probably the last run coming up on boost with the cracked main caps letting it move to far forward to break the flange off.
My El Camino is an 84. I'd say it took as much boost just before the bottom let go. I did something similar to the original 305. I put a new TH350 B&M transmission and going to my brothers place I hit second gear around 4/4200 and broke the crank in two places and cam in three. The first two cylinders broke away from the block itself. I used Mack rods and made a mailbox post with three of them. Happy Halloween everyone
Watched your video showing the thrust being destroyed, did you call him and make sure they check converter stuff and transmission stuff so they don't kill another? Keep it real we love watching your stuff 👊
If i recall correctly they always had high charge pressure. Its been a long time issue and they did not know how to fix it at that time. I think steve even went to give them a hand and they ended filling down the crank bearings to give them a tad bit more clearence.
Well just wanted to say hi, my first youtube comment but been watching every vid of yours since the beginning, and now Kyle's to.....amazing how open and honest you are and show everything...my kind of boys!! Thanks for everything you do and provide me my weekly entertainment.....cheers!! And keep on given-r!!
So with the crankshaft being broken, the thrust bearing being broken, AND main caps being broken, I would think something hard hit the crank in a way to shock the whole dang thing.
Funny story, I had one of the first Z51 C6 vettes in 2005. I walked two crank pulleys off of it. A GM powertrain engineer from Pontiac Michigan called and asked me what I was doing when it occurred. I told him it was high throttle angle shifting with the A/C on. The C6 got a new A/C compressor that was good for higher RPM so GM did not release the A/C clutch at higher RPM like they did with the C5. The LS engines do not have keyed cranks so the additional load of the A/C compressor would spin the crank pulley off when power shifting. He called me back with their fix. It was to add a diamond coated washer between the crank pulley and shaft to increase the holding force. Never came loose after that. I thought it was funny to see the diamond disk in use again! Thanks Steve.
For it to have broken on the inner part of each journal wouldnt the crank had to have been compressed end to end? So it possibly pressed against the front thrust from the torque converter?
Remember that Mullet had that problem since they switched from BBC to SMX, I believe it never was really fixed and caused these issues the harder they pushed the car, the harder it pushed on the thrust bearing, main caps and crank. When they drove it on 7 cylinders that day everything compounded and finally broke.
That's really cool how that friction disk was welded on the rear crankshaft flange. I've seen a harmonic balancer do the same thing to the front of a 6.7 Cummins crankshaft. That engine was being turned to 6,100 RPM (a lot for a diesel, back then). It looked almost identical. We weren't running a diamond friction disk (I didn't know that they existed until just now). It had a dowel pin, which was sheared off, but also only has 4 bolts holding it to the crank. That engine also trashed the crankshaft and all the main bearings, but the crank didn't fail, either. It chocked it up to the crankshaft not being able to handle the harmonics at that speed, while under load. I witnessed another 6.7 Cummins crank do the same thing after, and it was being turned to 6,300, for a short time, until it mangled the main bearings as well. I was blaming the RPMs... I wonder if that SMX simply was passing the boundary on RPM?
The rear thrust bearing is destroyed...likely from excessive pressure from the torque converter and remember Mullet was having lots of tire shake problems which sends very high shock loads through the drivetrain. Because the actual thrust bearing is in the front of the block...any movement as the rear thrust is being destroyed means the crank is getting compressed linearly. Being steel it'll bend and I'm thinking this bending is what broke the main caps and along the way cracked the crank in so many places.
Back when I used to build Watercooled VW/Audi engines, I had a bunch of those Ektagrip shims made. They worked great. Still have some in the garage someplace
Steve had this crank been straighten. I know I watch one of your videos where you had one straighten. But I can’t remember what engine it was. I’m really happy you had it checked. Toss it was in my mind after it had two main caps broken.
Steve, i genuinely appreciate what you do. If it wasn't for guys like you, we would have a sad world. Keep innovating and pushing the limits on what's possible! Thank you!
is this crank from Callie's Performance? If it is why don't you send it back to Callies to have the crank checked out. Callies might be able to figure out why this crank failed. I retired from Callies and it could be a flaw in the Steel Billet material, anyway it just might be worth a call to find out if they would like to investigate this crank.
Pressure of torque and harmonics, along with cup pressure, on steel causes cracks. Cup pressure is the energy spent at the bearing to crank, when the cylinder fires the fuel. Harmonics are intensely fluxuating, causing metal expansion, multiple times with every cycle. Thus fracture occurs. We have knock sensors to control the timing being what hears the ping, or detonation it then the timing is adjusted through the computers controls, when you develope a sensor to control the harmonics, then you can see it for yourselves. NASA and United Technology did this test for the Titan missles, used to launch the space shuttle.
@@ryanhale8013 negligent yes but purposely destroying an engine for views that's false info don't go creating narratives that aren't legit because it's clear you didn't watch the video from the other day
Thanks for correcting our thoughts on the crank flexing trashing the thrust bearing. Any chance you could create a t-shirt with a Dewey theme or a whole Morris family theme. We appreciate all you do Steve! Also, some of us in more southern climes would appreciate something other than black in t-shirts…gray, white, etc. I spend a LOT of time in a 100 degree shed and black is not optimum.
If the crank bends, it depends on how many bends and where. Marine Corps experience. I seen about 30 ways to split a cummins 6. I seen a wobble that polished two sides of the bearing an wallowed it out oval (because the crank snapped in two and kept catching at 180 degrees so one side was rotating at half speed and intermitantly what the other side that didn't eat a piston ran normal on 3 cyl.) If ya managed to bow the crank, they polish the outside of the main bearings.
As a mechanic and wicked fear head who loves going fast (which I have been watching you for a couple years now) I am still confused on how you machine the water and oil passages in the blocks and heads. I’ve always wanted to know how you get all the angles and everything on how you do it, heck even possibly see it in person
It would be an interesting experiment to put the crank in a hydrualic press simulating the converter compressing the crank into the front thrust bearing, and see if the cracks that were magnifluxed open up any? Also a good tech tip on the SMX Harmonic Balancing whould be interesting content as well.
There is value in solving the crankshaft thrust problem. Not solving it could lead to the same exact problem again in the car the engine came out of. I'm guessing transmission thrust tolerances. Brand new Ford trucks would do this same exact thing a couple decades back. The cracking is probably due to over stress (weakest link). Love this content!
26:20 probably would have saved your old dyno if you had one of those. I believe 100% is was pressure from the transmission/torque converter on the crankshaft that caused all the damage. You had the issue when the SMX was first put in and had to clearance the thrust washer. Something in the Transmission or drivetrain was causing large amounts of force axially up the crankshaft, shoving it out the front of the engine. Thanks for the video. I love your in depth detective videos!
Have not read any of the comments about bending the crank causing the thrust flange to break off the one thrust bearing face but I believe it is possible. Steve dismissed it for the reason he explains in this video. What might have happened is as whatever was going on that resulted in all the crankshaft and main cap cracks also caused the crank twisting, flexing, bending, etc. much more than normal. Bending, twisting, flexing a shaft makes it shorter. Doesn't just have to mean the whole crank is one big bow like it was bent. The front is constrained by the needle thrust bearing. So a shorter running length would be pulled into the stock rear thrust face and it gets hammered to hell by that, thrust from the converter, and Mullets up arrow. Maybe.
The thrust bearing rear flange broke due to excessive stress. This allowed the crank to move rearward and fracture all of the main and rod journals. The culprit that caused the thrust bearing failure needs to be found before you build up the block.
You should take a set of those pistons and rods, put with the crank and make an end table for the office. If you ever get a destroyed block beyond repair, make the opposing end table. If you give them away, ship them down to Garrett and have him sign the other side.
That is crazy!! Just placed my 2nd order. The merch is top notch but I wish the new shirts were still the 60/40 blend. They fit so much nicer than the 50/50. Keep up the amazing content Steve and crew!
Dang! I said for the last video it was a good thing Cleetus called it when he did. I have never seen a crank with cracks in just about all the journals!
Love the Blazer add. Looked like Kyle had just escaped from an Advanced First aid training room. It was the face bandage that broke me up. Just a thought. You could cut the crank up and make a few little bench anvils? Good steel inside and a bit unusual for a workshop. My Grandfather did this using a crank out of an old Budda motor. I still use it today and it's a cool functional curio in a home workshop. Not as cool as the table though. The movement between the flex plate and the crank using the abrasive washer was nasty though. I'll bet it's the 2 step loading and unloading the crank causing it to weld together. I suppose you couldnt do a crank drive face that was larger and occupy it with shoulder bolts? These I have used on some troublesome pressure plates in the past to assist in keeping them in place when there were not enough bolts . I have also used them in some pretty high frequency vibrating equipment where there was limited space and a regular fault breaking cap screws and steel dowels.
There exists test benches where your engine gets driven by a servo motor and sensors record vibrations and harmonics at every rpm. Expensive setup tho.
I remember one of the competitions cleetus was in they set the limiter around 9500 rpm, can't remember what engine, ill double check, the video was playing in the background earlier today.
Used engines are a gamble. I guess this video was made to blame Cleetus. Cars with high hp wear out faster than lower hp. Later Steve and good luck on RUclips
@@dwight8269 You do realize that Garrett is currently running a Steve Morris big block in mullet? There's no hate or blame going either direction. They've both said this, quite a few times. When you're making that kind of horsepower, stuff breaks. It's part of racing. Hence Garrett only can run eagle 25 times before having to rebuild the motor.
@@dwight8269pretty sure Cletus knew what he was getting into. He was saying in the video earlier this week with eagle that they will actually have to do the maintenance. He fully admits to not being great to the smx. The new proline hemi needs rods every 20-30 runs. Horsepower just flat out kills parts. (And pretty sure he went Proline only because they're the latest, greatest no radiator methanol only race motor right now. Not what the smx is designed for.)
Just placed an order right during this video! Hope to get an extra in it 😅 Keep up with your content Steve! Love to see everything, every process in the making of your reknown engines (even up here in QC, Canada) ✌️
How?!?! Just… how?!? How in the heck does a crank get that many cracks without breaking? You couldn’t do that if you tried. 😂😂😂
When are we going to see you build a car?
You'll have to only appear in gear with a helmet on though.... 😂
We've got a crack out of one, nothing on two, a crack out of three....
@@NickyP500 🤣
Worlds best crankshaft.
top fuel cracks em every run
When Garret breaks stuff, he doesn’t skimp lol 🤦🏼♂️🤣😂🤣🤦🏼♂️
ya well Steve said max of 60 and it hit 70 so ya. but yes people wonder why companies will work with cleetus iti is because when he breaks stuff he is generally at or past the max the part maker specified so really it is a good test for all parts
sometimes when you test stuff and push it past its max well ya you generally get pretty good carnage whe it fails
Leave it to Garrett to find a way to break a $10000 crank.
Like Cleetus’s shirt says Right Foot Breaks Shit
@@rossmagwood1381 research and development. Not everything that goes wrong is bad.
Doesn't anyone remember this engine had thrust issues from the first run in Mullet? Remember when Steve had to go down there and check it out when they found material in the pre-filter and the thrusts were getting hammered then. He even went to Mr Sam's and lapped them to give it more clearance.
I do, yes. I think the jury is still out whether the torque converter is pushing too hard into the crank or not.
Does anyone remember if Steve had this crank checked when all 8 rods shattered on him? I am assuming he did but I don't remember?
@@thomasdupras5773 It was due bad material so why not the main caps??I agree,this looks bad.
I agree with all of you boys all good points. Perhaps if the torque converters pushing too hard. Maybe there should be an additional thrust bearing around the torque converer. As for the grenading of all the connected rods that will do it too. If it wasn't related to a previous grenade it would Need more advanced timing st certain rpm, inorder to insure it's completely ignited before BDC.. The stress cracks look like Like they started to crack when it was at bottom dead center on each of The Strokes still going into power explodingForce is pushing down or is it the inertia to 70PSI that's a lot.
@@teknoaija1762 it was due to bad connecting rods. He hade just switched to a different brand, and i think 2 of his builds broke bad. Then he switched back to the previous brand and stuff didn't break like that anymore.
You are correct Steve. Crank did not bend. It was crushed by the converter thrust pressure.
I agree, as that's the only way the flange will become that evenly dark from heat.
Genuine question: why this converter pressure didn’t affected the BBC? (The Chevy one 😂) or it did?
Ya think you've lived long enough to have seen it all. Then "Cleetus!"
All bets are off ;)
The trail blazer doctor add is pure gold
Thanks you
Help out and buy merch 🙏
Not quite HALO-worthy.....
Bad pun, I've spent too much time in a bed on the Spinal Floor/Ward. 😉
Materials engineer here...
In my opinion the crank breaking in that way looks like a fatigue failure from vibration. Either a weird rpm range issue like the springs you had a while back, running hard on 7 cylinders, or leftover stress from the original rod failure you had before you sold it to cleetus. Also having the crank unsupported like that it could have started to crack on the drive if it was already close to its fatigue limit.
engine was designed for 60lbs boost. Cleetus hit 70lbs. That is why the damage is uniform.
Isn't it at least a little embarrassing that you feel the need to state your 'profession" and how it makes you an expert, yet you have zero related videos on your channel? Not even a little?
@@eriklarson9137so what you are saying is because he's not a u-tuber he isn't an engineer and doesn't know what he's talking about.....step away from the keyboard son....
Agreed on fatigue causing stress fractures in the material.
@eriklarson9137 maybe he's to busy being an actual engineer and doesnt have time to make youtube videos. Seems like his profession is relevant
Steve, when you were talking about making the crank a table, I remember seeing one at a Porsche museum where they had a flexplate on the bottom, the crank, and then the crank was attached to a beautiful Porsche rim with the tabletop glass on top of the rim
I think multiple breaks and fractures are from a harmonic vibration. Possibly caused by a dead cylinder.
I’ve had and racers have had multiple valve springs break at a particular RPM for an extended dwell and not necessarily an extreme RPM just 1 that puts that harmonic through it.
That was my thoughts exactly especially when steve said it happened on the drive
Cleetus drove it from one track to the next on 7 because of a valve train issue with one cylinder. That extended vibration is probably what did it in. I wonder which broke first, the crank or the caps?
Harmonics are a bitch, one of the reasons Jesel timing belts are really nice since they don't transfer harmonics to the valve train the way a chain or gears do.
The thrust bearing failure and the crank cracks are the same problem, axial load along the crank. All the cracks were on the inside, which is where you'd see bending from a strong axial/thrust load.
Maybe the thrust being in the front and the torque converter compressing the crank ?
Exactly @@okie3297
Yep, and the diamond washer being essentially welded to the end of the crank confirms that as well.
That's what I was thinking, but wouldn't they be compressed on the inside and crack on the outside? Inside would be more from stretching the crank.
To me more likely is the main caps failed first, and so ignition near TDC was pushing the crank downward a bit more than it's ready for. Supported well at the ends and free near the middle would crack in the same place.
Cracks in the crankshaft.....VIBRATION!
Vibration will break ANYTHING
We had one run on our A/Fuel dragster that vibratted so bad
it broke the air scoop, two mag 44 caps and a bunch of other stuff!
Driver did NOT FEEL IT!
Love your videos!
Keep them coming!
Very entertaining and informative!
Thank You!
I was thinking that's how the main cam loss it's nuts off the studs when he had bad tire shake because the one shake that he had shook most of the oil pan bolts loose an some were even missing when they did a nut and bolt check after that. but he don't run big tire slicks he runs 225 radials
Must love Steve. It was awesome u showing up to plates and 28’s. That was amazing for us to support Bill at old man garage with that event. Love what u do. Thankx again
I’ve never seen someone able to break so much and have it be so unnoticeable. Cleet really knows how show you your weak points in an engine!!
This engine looking at Steve saying:
"I'm tired, boss. Tired of bein' on the road, lonely as a sparrow in the rain. I'm tired of never having me a buddy to be with, to tell me where we's going to or coming from, or why."
Glad to see you at Edgewater, I had so much fun! Thanks for coming, it was a pleasure to meet you, Val and Dewey. All of you were delightful, Hope to see you guys again soon!
The shop I work at uses the same company to hard anodize aluminum as Steve Morris Engines! Simple pleasures in life that I think are cool.
I feel like you are spot on with the caps breaking while driving. They probably became weak when running it and then the harmonics of street driving caused them to brake fully allowing the crank to have a different harmonic and fracturing it in multiple places. Its pretty crazy what can happen with power.
Imagine the crank deflection to destroy the rear main when the front thrust bearing was still intact. Thanks for the lessons professor Steve!
Yeah, something shoved that crank forward with TREMENDOUS force. And not all in one quick hit. Not only was the rear thrust bearing destroyed, the rear crank thrust surface is totally blackened, indicating it got a ton of heat. Plus that "diamond thrust shim" that got basically friction-welded to the back of the crank.
Appreciate the thoughtful diagnosis of the components and pushing people to think logically. The harmonics and forces that are on the crankshaft running down the road and down the track vary. It would be interesting to be able to measure that. It’s hard to think that a big piece of steel in flexing and twisting. Thanks for the Video, Steve.
Cleetus must have had something really bad going on with his transmission/flywheel/converter. That's the only thing that would cause the damage to that thrust bearing like that. It's like the transmission was trying to push the converter through the engine lol. Your roller bearing in the front cover stopped it.
I wonder if something is pushing the drivetrain of Mullet forward or if his converter is ballooning or something. I think, just a seasoned GM mechanic here, the thrush went out, then the crank broke, then the caps broke on the drive. Just my .02. Something killed the thrust bearing and it killed the crank at 70 psi.
Just watched the end of the video of the diamond disk. Makes more sense to me now too. He’s got something going on inside the transmission or something pushing hard as hell forward on that crankshaft.
I dont think forward thrust caused the caps to break or crank cracks. Sure it might have wiped out the thrust bearing in then back but if the thrust went further forward it would have caused the piston arms to be on an angle giving wear evidence in theomir bearings. Also there would be excessive damage to the sides of the main caps from the crank arms pushing on them. There is no doubt that forward loading happened but it doesnt seem to have gone past the thrust bearing in the back. I kind of think the damage was done when the engine popped the first time before cleet got it.
I blame Trump! He sent a mean tweet to that old crank and blew out its gizzard.
Trump is too much of a limp noodle to blow out anything.
LMAO LMAO LMAO....thats it...!...priceless...lololololololololol....!
Maybe that lockup converter that was in mullet on the thrust ? The diamond shim welded, the crank cracked everywhere, maybe it is too much lugging on road drives ?
I know it's weird, but i love seeing local places on youtube. Sending the crank to Marne, where i grew up going to Berlin Raceway, is just awesome to me.
Looking at that diamond plate, I personally would be VERY curious to see what the flex plate looked like.
I have to wonder if something to do with Garretts transmission is funky. Like maybe when the converter locked up it some how slammed that converter body forward. Regardless, there was something unique to Mullet happening that caused a lot of unusual shock to the bottom end of that engine. One suspicion I do have. I don't believe that Mullet is a dual rail car ( therefore less rigid ). I have to wonder if on launches, the chassis flexed in such a way that the driveline crammed the internals of the transmission forward. I know that the converter always pushes forward anyway, just really seems like more than that was at play here.
You kinda explained the comment I just posted before finding yours.
Cleetus said that’s the reason why he took the SMX out was because it was starting to tear the car apart. It wasn’t built for that much power in the front, it was originally built to have a jet engine in the bed. The whole reason he started with an El Camino. They changed from a jet engine because the company he bought the engine from had one of their female racers crash and die while they were building Mullet.
@@mikehunt3222 There was more to that story. That was also right after Jessi Combs was killed and his family begged him to change course. What you said though in my mind just reinforces my thoughts on the matter. Plus I know for a fact that Mullet could never really make use of the power levels that the SMX delivers.
Your magnaflux guy said it best!
That's what 70 lbs of boost gets ya!
Very lucky that the crank didn’t break and bust the block.
It would be so awesome to have one of those pistons and rods!!
Love your videos Steve!!
really enjoying the in depth videos. The liitle tidbits about the diamond infused shim, etc. Ouch on needing new crank!! You need to ignore/delete the small handfull of jerks leaving rude comments. Responding to them in video is just feeding them for more!! The larger majority of us appreciate the time your spending to make these videos!! PS : Would like to see a video on the machining work to install those new replacable lilfter bore inserts!!
10:44 i absolutely 100% agree with the guy who inspected that crank that I’m surprised it’s not in multiple pieces. I’ve done alot of mag particle inspection (which is what “magnfluxing” a block means, magnaflux is just a name brand) but seeing those cracks where they were at and how big there were I really am surprised it didn’t completely break. I think that’s a testament to the materials Steve uses and the engineering behind the man caps, I know that dosent really keep it from breaking into pieces but it does support the crank and if there was any kind of poor engineering or bad machine work then this is where it would really show. So yea for this thing to run as fast as it was and as hard as it was it’s amazing it’s in one piece with those kinds of cracks on the crank, I was expecting maybe a half in crack at most which still would have been a good one of you ask me but not half way around each and every journal.. lol
I think the only reason it didn’t come apart is it most likely happened while road driving. If he’d have made a pass like that it would’ve EXPLODED. Multiple cracks like that, when it did come apart probably would’ve ripped that entire block apart.
The Cap would not stop a broken crank the crank stayed together because the crank materials. I'm not sure if it's a Callies or Bryant crank but it held up good considering
If I remember right they had issues with a converter and the bypass for a while with too much pressure. Makes sense the damage seen if you think about it. Even though you have the roller thrust bearing to keep it from moving forwards. All that pressure and flash / fast heating a cold shaft could easily compress that crankshaft in the journals causing cracks like that. The fact it stayed as straight as it did is a testimony to your design and machine tolerances holding it in place that securely not allowing wiggle room to further flex and let it all cut loose.
Looks like you need to design and incorporate an external thrust bearing between the flywheel/flexplate and the rear of the block to control torque converter thrust to the crank before it can axially flex it to the point of failure.
I am no builder but I wonder if his torque converter issues played into this…. Remember when he had really high pressures that was pushing the torque converter into the crank and I think it wore down the thrust bearing and Steve came out and fix the bearing. Wonder if the compression of the crank while taking a rotational load let to these stress cracks on the crank.
Like I said before that boy is hard on everything Cleetus how did you crack every main on that beautiful crank oh 70 PSI BOOSTED 😢😢😢
I literally just sat down to watch the new Cleetus video and this one pops up. Sorry Cleet, I’ll see yours in about 35 minutes.
Crank thrust
I'd like to see a distance sensor attached to the front of the crank during a run. I'm wondering if releasing the trans brake causes a spike in thrust or even on decell. A more difficult but probably possible is a laser distance sensor looking at the flex plate for movement. Issue there is that the flex plate isn't a finely ground surface and will have some wobble.
I’m mean the rad you got of ole cleeter putting America’s foot in the floorboard all bs aside you make one hell of a engine to run on 7 cylinders with broke main caps and a broke crank was still running 😮wow
Cleetus McFarland has a special skill.
Anvil companies should hire Cleet to stress test their products because I GUARANTEE if they could hold up to him than they could actually advertise as unbreakable. 😂
I used 3/4 plexiglass drilled an taped the harmonic balancer . Bolt the plexiglass to the harmonic balancer on my 572 Keith black crank shaft an all aluminum rods used over size rod bearing to hold the rods and pistons in place . Heavy end table. Awesome tho. 😊
I worked at ROWE Foundry in Martinsville, Illinois for 38 years. We made so many ductile castings for HAAS CNC Bases I can't recall the exact number, but it was an average of 25-30 castings a week for many years. I retired in 2019. It's owned by a National Fork Lift Company now. I ordered a SM Hat tonight too! Happy Halloween Steve!!
vibration and harmonics can do some crazy stuff
Another crazy htought on the thrust flange failure: The individual cylinder firings are creating a "torque signature" so high the crank is stretching and releasing (like when you torque a rod bolt and measure stretch). Could also be the reason for the crank cracks.
Steve you are awesome Bud, with your give aways. My thought on the broken crank is the front and rear bearings were secure on the crank journals and because the crank journals caps were broke in the middle, the harmonics and slight movement of the crank by the rods caused the crank to crack. And the drive was easy on the bearings on the crank. As for the thrust bearing flange brakeage, probably the last run coming up on boost with the cracked main caps letting it move to far forward to break the flange off.
Didn't cleet have converter or trans pump issues during that race event?
MY THORS AS WELL . THAT MAKES SENCE
Cleetus is the end all be all STRESS TESTER...any part that has any weakness will be found and that part will need a full redesign
Steve, as a mechanic that’s why I don’t like flying in airplanes, one minute everything looks good, next thing you know you’re a greasy crater.
Man!! 👀Them billet hard anodized caps are like gold!! Great video!!! 👍🏼
My El Camino is an 84. I'd say it took as much boost just before the bottom let go. I did something similar to the original 305. I put a new TH350 B&M transmission and going to my brothers place I hit second gear around 4/4200 and broke the crank in two places and cam in three. The first two cylinders broke away from the block itself. I used Mack rods and made a mailbox post with three of them. Happy Halloween everyone
Watched your video showing the thrust being destroyed, did you call him and make sure they check converter stuff and transmission stuff so they don't kill another? Keep it real we love watching your stuff 👊
If i recall correctly they always had high charge pressure. Its been a long time issue and they did not know how to fix it at that time. I think steve even went to give them a hand and they ended filling down the crank bearings to give them a tad bit more clearence.
@ryy597 copy that! Them boys are living it up and having a awesome time doing it for sure. Hopefully they got it handled.
@@ryy597didn’t Steve have that problem a few years back as well? I remember him blowing trans lines and cooking converters in the wagon.
Yeah. They had that fixed. Oddly it was the same trans that was behind the big block with no troubles.
Well just wanted to say hi, my first youtube comment but been watching every vid of yours since the beginning, and now Kyle's to.....amazing how open and honest you are and show everything...my kind of boys!! Thanks for everything you do and provide me my weekly entertainment.....cheers!! And keep on given-r!!
So with the crankshaft being broken, the thrust bearing being broken, AND main caps being broken, I would think something hard hit the crank in a way to shock the whole dang thing.
End thrust from the torque converter
Funny story, I had one of the first Z51 C6 vettes in 2005. I walked two crank pulleys off of it. A GM powertrain engineer from Pontiac Michigan called and asked me what I was doing when it occurred. I told him it was high throttle angle shifting with the A/C on. The C6 got a new A/C compressor that was good for higher RPM so GM did not release the A/C clutch at higher RPM like they did with the C5. The LS engines do not have keyed cranks so the additional load of the A/C compressor would spin the crank pulley off when power shifting. He called me back with their fix. It was to add a diamond coated washer between the crank pulley and shaft to increase the holding force. Never came loose after that. I thought it was funny to see the diamond disk in use again! Thanks Steve.
Good to see you put in radius’s in the corners where the original ones broke!
The thrust side of this bearing was planned inorder to make clearance for the thrust needle bearing to take over. You did it at Sam's shop I believe?
Yeah, leds in the oil holes of the end table would look cool as heck.
For it to have broken on the inner part of each journal wouldnt the crank had to have been compressed end to end? So it possibly pressed against the front thrust from the torque converter?
Remember that Mullet had that problem since they switched from BBC to SMX, I believe it never was really fixed and caused these issues the harder they pushed the car, the harder it pushed on the thrust bearing, main caps and crank. When they drove it on 7 cylinders that day everything compounded and finally broke.
That's really cool how that friction disk was welded on the rear crankshaft flange. I've seen a harmonic balancer do the same thing to the front of a 6.7 Cummins crankshaft. That engine was being turned to 6,100 RPM (a lot for a diesel, back then). It looked almost identical. We weren't running a diamond friction disk (I didn't know that they existed until just now). It had a dowel pin, which was sheared off, but also only has 4 bolts holding it to the crank. That engine also trashed the crankshaft and all the main bearings, but the crank didn't fail, either. It chocked it up to the crankshaft not being able to handle the harmonics at that speed, while under load. I witnessed another 6.7 Cummins crank do the same thing after, and it was being turned to 6,300, for a short time, until it mangled the main bearings as well. I was blaming the RPMs... I wonder if that SMX simply was passing the boundary on RPM?
Ok....ok.....ok.......
What the HELL was Cleetus doing to that Crank?
That has got to be more than just 70 pounds.
missing a cylinder probably has to do with it
Surely the crank cracks are from being unsupported by the broken caps
But the crank cracked even at the unbroken cap points. Probably the entire block somehow is flexing.
The rear thrust bearing is destroyed...likely from excessive pressure from the torque converter and remember Mullet was having lots of tire shake problems which sends very high shock loads through the drivetrain. Because the actual thrust bearing is in the front of the block...any movement as the rear thrust is being destroyed means the crank is getting compressed linearly. Being steel it'll bend and I'm thinking this bending is what broke the main caps and along the way cracked the crank in so many places.
Garrett is the best, hands down, pants down, Hell Yeah Brother!!!!! QA tester on Earth!!!!
Back when I used to build Watercooled VW/Audi engines, I had a bunch of those Ektagrip shims made. They worked great. Still have some in the garage someplace
Steve had this crank been straighten. I know I watch one of your videos where you had one straighten. But I can’t remember what engine it was. I’m really happy you had it checked. Toss it was in my mind after it had two main caps broken.
That was Cletus's original mullet big block which is back in the car again.
Steve, i genuinely appreciate what you do. If it wasn't for guys like you, we would have a sad world. Keep innovating and pushing the limits on what's possible! Thank you!
is this crank from Callie's Performance? If it is why don't you send it back to Callies to have the crank checked out. Callies might be able to figure out why this crank failed. I retired from Callies and it could be a flaw in the Steel Billet material, anyway it just might be worth a call to find out if they would like to investigate this crank.
Pressure of torque and harmonics, along with cup pressure, on steel causes cracks. Cup pressure is the energy spent at the bearing to crank, when the cylinder fires the fuel. Harmonics are intensely fluxuating, causing metal expansion, multiple times with every cycle. Thus fracture occurs. We have knock sensors to control the timing being what hears the ping, or detonation it then the timing is adjusted through the computers controls, when you develope a sensor to control the harmonics, then you can see it for yourselves. NASA and United Technology did this test for the Titan missles, used to launch the space shuttle.
Well clet testing is pretty hard lol
First start up oil optional.
More like cleetus was negligent and purposely destroyed for views
@@ryanhale8013 negligent yes but purposely destroying an engine for views that's false info don't go creating narratives that aren't legit because it's clear you didn't watch the video from the other day
Thanks for correcting our thoughts on the crank flexing trashing the thrust bearing. Any chance you could create a t-shirt with a Dewey theme or a whole Morris family theme. We appreciate all you do Steve! Also, some of us in more southern climes would appreciate something other than black in t-shirts…gray, white, etc. I spend a LOT of time in a 100 degree shed and black is not optimum.
Love the coffee table idea ❤.
If the crank bends, it depends on how many bends and where. Marine Corps experience. I seen about 30 ways to split a cummins 6. I seen a wobble that polished two sides of the bearing an wallowed it out oval (because the crank snapped in two and kept catching at 180 degrees so one side was rotating at half speed and intermitantly what the other side that didn't eat a piston ran normal on 3 cyl.) If ya managed to bow the crank, they polish the outside of the main bearings.
The crank isn't broken. It's cracked. That's why it's so amazing. The parts didn't exit the block. If it doesn't go, Chrome it.
As a mechanic and wicked fear head who loves going fast (which I have been watching you for a couple years now) I am still confused on how you machine the water and oil passages in the blocks and heads. I’ve always wanted to know how you get all the angles and everything on how you do it, heck even possibly see it in person
Those Diamond washers are used in many European cars from the factory.
It would be an interesting experiment to put the crank in a hydrualic press simulating the converter compressing the crank into the front thrust bearing, and see if the cracks that were magnifluxed open up any? Also a good tech tip on the SMX Harmonic Balancing whould be interesting content as well.
Your #1 stress tester will always be cleetus. If you can build something that he cant break then it will be good forever with anyone else.
Amazing it didn't break. Hats off to Steve built tough engines.
What a testament to your build quality! Your engines can still run even after major abuse. 😮
There is value in solving the crankshaft thrust problem. Not solving it could lead to the same exact problem again in the car the engine came out of. I'm guessing transmission thrust tolerances. Brand new Ford trucks would do this same exact thing a couple decades back. The cracking is probably due to over stress (weakest link). Love this content!
26:20 probably would have saved your old dyno if you had one of those. I believe 100% is was pressure from the transmission/torque converter on the crankshaft that caused all the damage. You had the issue when the SMX was first put in and had to clearance the thrust washer. Something in the Transmission or drivetrain was causing large amounts of force axially up the crankshaft, shoving it out the front of the engine. Thanks for the video. I love your in depth detective videos!
put in a crome molly girdle on the caps to help that crank to stop flexing during launches. no block is totaly rigid
Steve, only bad fuel causes broken cranks. When you have a crank like that, that's why everything's all over and
Have not read any of the comments about bending the crank causing the thrust flange to break off the one thrust bearing face but I believe it is possible. Steve dismissed it for the reason he explains in this video. What might have happened is as whatever was going on that resulted in all the crankshaft and main cap cracks also caused the crank twisting, flexing, bending, etc. much more than normal. Bending, twisting, flexing a shaft makes it shorter. Doesn't just have to mean the whole crank is one big bow like it was bent. The front is constrained by the needle thrust bearing. So a shorter running length would be pulled into the stock rear thrust face and it gets hammered to hell by that, thrust from the converter, and Mullets up arrow. Maybe.
Your enthusiasm is contagious! 😂
Steve that is ultra cool your going above and beyond on your own dime sending out those parts!! The table will be super rad to who ever gets that.
Diamond impregnated shims are very common in the diesel world they use them both on balancer and flex plate great videos
I love how you show and why it that way keep up the great work !!
The thrust bearing rear flange broke due to excessive stress. This allowed the crank to move rearward and fracture all of the main and rod journals. The culprit that caused the thrust bearing failure needs to be found before you build up the block.
You should take a set of those pistons and rods, put with the crank and make an end table for the office. If you ever get a destroyed block beyond repair, make the opposing end table.
If you give them away, ship them down to Garrett and have him sign the other side.
The “Here kid, have a lollipop” and handing him a valve was great hahaha
I like his make a table out of the old crankshaft idea. I have already made a few myself.
That is crazy!! Just placed my 2nd order. The merch is top notch but I wish the new shirts were still the 60/40 blend. They fit so much nicer than the 50/50. Keep up the amazing content Steve and crew!
Loved the ad and the wife(?) stopping mid stride to not interrupt the craziness
Tell Dewey, Good Dog❤
A piston and rod from you would be a treasure to me. I can't understand people who wouldn't.
I'm going to have to agree with you on the vibrations causing the crank failure. They looked more like stress fractures than acute failures.
Ford 4 cylinder engines without keyed crankshaft and camshaft gears use diamond washers to make sure they keep time. Pretty cool in my opinion.
Thanks for all you do, I've learned so much and amazed at your knowledge of everything !!!
Dang! I said for the last video it was a good thing Cleetus called it when he did. I have never seen a crank with cracks in just about all the journals!
Love the Blazer add. Looked like Kyle had just escaped from an Advanced First aid training room. It was the face bandage that broke me up.
Just a thought. You could cut the crank up and make a few little bench anvils? Good steel inside and a bit unusual for a workshop. My Grandfather did this using a crank out of an old Budda motor. I still use it today and it's a cool functional curio in a home workshop. Not as cool as the table though.
The movement between the flex plate and the crank using the abrasive washer was nasty though. I'll bet it's the 2 step loading and unloading the crank causing it to weld together. I suppose you couldnt do a crank drive face that was larger and occupy it with shoulder bolts? These I have used on some troublesome pressure plates in the past to assist in keeping them in place when there were not enough bolts . I have also used them in some pretty high frequency vibrating equipment where there was limited space and a regular fault breaking cap screws and steel dowels.
I don't know what kinda R&D goes into figuring out the harmonic vibrations of an engine but perhaps the balancer isn't doing the job
There exists test benches where your engine gets driven by a servo motor and sensors record vibrations and harmonics at every rpm. Expensive setup tho.
I remember one of the competitions cleetus was in they set the limiter around 9500 rpm, can't remember what engine, ill double check, the video was playing in the background earlier today.
Used engines are a gamble. I guess this video was made to blame Cleetus. Cars with high hp wear out faster than lower hp. Later Steve and good luck on RUclips
@@dwight8269 this video wasn't made to blame him at all it's racing things happen like this all the time
@@dwight8269 You do realize that Garrett is currently running a Steve Morris big block in mullet? There's no hate or blame going either direction. They've both said this, quite a few times. When you're making that kind of horsepower, stuff breaks. It's part of racing. Hence Garrett only can run eagle 25 times before having to rebuild the motor.
@@dwight8269 lol this isn't an airport there's no need to announce your departure, cry baby
@@dwight8269pretty sure Cletus knew what he was getting into.
He was saying in the video earlier this week with eagle that they will actually have to do the maintenance. He fully admits to not being great to the smx.
The new proline hemi needs rods every 20-30 runs.
Horsepower just flat out kills parts. (And pretty sure he went Proline only because they're the latest, greatest no radiator methanol only race motor right now. Not what the smx is designed for.)
Just placed an order right during this video! Hope to get an extra in it 😅
Keep up with your content Steve! Love to see everything, every process in the making of your reknown engines (even up here in QC, Canada)
✌️