Man I love these videos. As someone with a love of big horsepower, but neither the space nor the money to build something myself, SME is like hanging out in your buddy's garage while he works. Brilliant.
Yet ANOTHER keyboard warrior. Jealousy is a terrible thing. I don't care what he does as long as it entertains me. (or you) Let that sink in. Cleetus did. All the way to the bank.
Crazy butt relevant, I was thinking the same thing before I seen the video of the waste gate and thought that needed a flat to build pressure then release to spool faster because the evacuation of the exhaust pressure will be quicker like in the three valve per cylinder application
It's great that you tell us EXACTLY what set-ups you're using on each different engine combo. Now my boy's and I will have to subscribe to Kyle's channel 😅😂
@@1clnsdime1I’ll pick a turbo all day any racing. It’s proven already. Roll racing which I do in my coyote I have twin 64s precisions makes about 1400 on highest map on e85. I like how nice and easy it is to turn up boost on turbos. A few buttons and I switch between maps. Also it’s my daily driver. Tuned by lund. Built motor from FFRE.
Can you write a dyno loading scaling facor for the 1st few seconds or under a given rpm? Instead of 1:1 input to output. Use a subprogram to produce 3:1 for the first 2 or 3 seconds of the pull to get more initial turbine shaft speed I understand you need one to one for accurate numbers from the dyno. But you also need exaggerated load to make the turbo spool.
What's the max amount of boost that a big ol 144mm turbo will make?? A little shot of nitrous would have brought it right up on boost, correct?? I see alot of people adding a small shot of nitrous to get it on the chip faster.. its unfortunate that you couldn't figure it out with the time you had because I'm guessing that motor & turbo are going to make some crazy power
I have a 5th Gen Camaro SS. I definitely debate if I should go ProCharger or a turbo setup. Still want to drive it on the street and highways. Also want to do some long distance trips too
Put a volatage regulator in front of the Holley ign driver board and call it a day. Can make one for pennies. Also could add an accumulator tank before the dyno brake inlet, should help the power transient.
So what does a procharged SMX sound like preferably not with zoomies not a big fan would be sweet if it was though duels out the back but doesn’t seem practical if you happen to have any videos or know of one setup with single side exits. I know turbos tend to quite engine noise would love to hear one.
Awhile back i heard someone talking about spinning a turbo electrically assisted at low speed to help it through the lag period. Never caught the follow up on how it worked...
Does the additional work of dynoing your customer's engines with turbos show you anything you otherwise wouldn't be able to see if you just tested them all NA? I.e., does the boost show any points of failure or defects that you otherwise wouldn't catch?
Very interesting. I’ve always wondered, is it even possible to daily drive an F4 ProCharger, or even and F3 ProCharger. They both run off of gears vs belt.
That was a fantastic video!! I appreciate all you and your team do. I'm sure it's not easy with the workload. I have to digress to the early part of the video though. I'm kind of a big dumb animal. Did you call Dewey an idget? Yes, I am that old. Yosemite Sam would be proud. 😂 Keep up the great content.
Steve talk to lou at fuel tech as he appears to be the person that's done the most work on the pro mod setups, that's why I messaged you about running these e-gates months ago and Mark Mickey was running this setup at the pro finals at Bradenton.
You can’t convince me a turbo is better, I don’t drag race and don’t care about winning races. I like the power to come on fast, and the noise is better. When I was a kid I thought turbos were better, then I drove a manual transmission supercharged v8.
@spcneary with anti-lag they are just as fun on the street. More power is more power no matter how you look at it. My choice is twin smaller turbos instead of one big one. For drifting I actually like a N/A settup with individual throttle bodies and as small as a flywheel as I can have. I do still love superchargers though but with anti-lag, 2 step and 3 step it's hard to lean with a supercharger/procharger/blower for racing applications because you can do more with less.
@@spcneary when comparing boost for boost, similar size compressors between a centri and turbo in a actual car...turbos boost curve is far better. Where say at 3000, a centri will be making like 1 to 2 psi, a turbo will be at 6. Centris curve is linear no matter what. Centri have "lag" in comparison.
Thanks Steve for putting out awesome videos not many engin builders will go in depth to show how to do things and even when you have problems you still show the world it goes to show what a great and honest engin builder u are 🇺🇸🇺🇸
I like the rag over the wastegate outlet. Reminds me of when I was walking thru the MAZDA engine plant in Hiroshima Japan. This was in the mid-1980s. There were little kids’ toy pinwheels mounted on the backs of the computer controllers that ran the machining line. I asked the Mazda engineer I was working with what was up with the pinwheels. He said they were mounted behind the computer cooling fans. If the pinwheel was spinning the fan was working. If not, a passing employee would notify the millwrights that a repair team was needed. At Ford’s (& probably all other American engine plants) plants there was an electronic monitor on each machine. Cost comparison: 5 cents for.the pinwheel vs probably $50 for the electronic babysitter. Good on ya, Steve!
Back in the 80s when I was taught to drive a semi truck, that's when the old mechanical diesels could be made to run pretty easily if you knew what you were doing or knew someone who did.. anyway one thing that was taught after you turned the pump up was to plug the waste gate and man would those things come alive!!
That’s what 2 step is for or if rolling anti lag. It’s 2024 only places you see turbo lag is in diesel. Or someone who doesn’t know how to tune. But he is using a engine dyno you don’t use either of those so yes it take a second to build and literally just a second it’s building pretty fast
If ever there was a race car engine candidate for a Switchblade turbo charger upgrade… here it is. Steve I doubt you’ll even read this but if you do please look up Blaylock turbo chargers in Baxter Springs Ks. My friend Jim Blaylock patented a turbo charger modification for just this sort of issue. And they are making great strides in this design. It uses a simple mechanical mechanism fed off of boost that changes the internal volume inside the turbo charger turbine housing to act like a smaller turbo charger at lower RPM to spool quickly & then as boost increases, it opens up to flow more.
It doesnt make turbo smaller, it just makes turbine housing more restrictive. I dont know how something can be patented if it was found 40 years ago by someone else, and forgotten because it didnt work.
Yeah, I was about to say, that's just a VGT. Your friend may have patented a better way to achieve that result, but the idea isn't anything new. And as far as I know, with a VGT you don't necessary need a dump valve as you can control the boost pressure by changing the position of the vanes.
blowers break alot, shake cars apart, and make a ton of low rpm power that can blow the tires off turbos make those problems go away but are a tuning nightmare lol
At the 56 minute mark you mulling over egate. If you want to improve boost response and get turbo spinning quickly, you need to cut the flow of air going into turbo inlet. Even bleeding off boost won't help. A vacuum cleaner screams when you block it. The noise you hear is the extra rpm it's doing because it's not able to grab air and move it. The turbo is the same. As it moves air it needs input from exhaust wheel to drive it. Air has mass and needs energy to move it. Kill the clean air getting to it, and it can't absorb energy by moving that air. It can, therefore, speed up more for the same exhaust flowing thru engine. Once you have it to the desired turbo rpm then let it eat air. It's counterintuitive.
Maybe it will bc it will come on so late the turbo won’t strain the internals as much Kinda like a big turbo vs stock turbo on a little 4 banger Big turbo safer IF u don’t moon boost it.
Prochargers are rampid in NoPrepKings due to the fact it is easier to tune and faster reaction that is right there with the Blower combos. Turbos are hard to tune but, once they are tuned they are hard to beat. Spell check in RUclips not that great... I meant rampant... thanx for the spell check lol.
you are starting the run a little too high on the turbo. hold it at 3,000rpm then let it go. I saw you were holding it at 5,000 and only giving it 3,000 rpm to rev. its a turbo. it needs wider rev range if it isn't building boost because of the rear wheel sizing thats a problem. but you have so much exhaust gas it shouldn't have this problem. what is the rear wheel/housing size? also turbo is not intercooled. thats a problem regardless of methanol etc. a turbo needs an IC
I think that Professor Steve Morris will figure all this out eventually because he has to know. Thanks for taking us along on your journey. That Dyno and software is hiding the "rest of the story".
Big turbos always suck at lower rpms, they don't get enough gas velocity to work over a wide range...☹ Twins of a smaller size can help if sized correctly and with oem cars variable geometry makes huge differences to driveability, my 2.2 litre Ford diesel makes over 330 lbs/ft at 1500 rpm with minimal turbo lag, with a variable geometry turbo that has done 201K miles without any repairs required...
@@ruckus__no need to do a compound system with gas engines. You can’t put the boost to a gas engine that you can to a diesel,. Yiu can only add so much boost to a sparked fired engine before you have detonations issues that start melting things or breaking rods, you don’t detonation issues with diesel because in stead of spark you spraying the fuel in to get the ignition.
Why wouldn't you just change the dyno start to load rpm to 6500 since the turbo won't light below that on that many cubes? It probably needs a smaller exhaust housing if you want it to start making boost at lower then 6500.
Engine air temperature is critical to making power. Gale Banks talks about it a lot with his boosted applications. I did not see air temps as part of the data set, so it might be smart to monitor the charge air temp for a clearer picture of what is happening.
Gale banks is talking about diesel, pro mod engines runs on alcohol that's the ticket for not running an intercooler the air charge will be cooled be the fuel nothing else is needed
Gale even talks about the affects of alcohol cooling when he takes a try at building a proper diesel for monster trucks, he even tried to run massive alcohol through his Dmax. I think Steve has even tried charge cooling on Methanol and it didn't help much. Iy comes down to more parts= more weight on the car, and more complex to he already crammed engine compartments.
The blade design on the supercharger is critical to move air Dependent on the design parameters you design the turbine blades to move "x" volume of air at "y" rpm under "z" ambient pressure Taking rpm "y" *1,6 does not necessarily equate to volume "x" *1,6 at same ambient, it may only be "x"*1,35 etc So the sweet spot has a +- percentage tolerance of say "y" +10% overdriven or "y" -5% and that would be your efficiency range. By simply speeding up your blower does not necessarily equate a 1:1 correlation in speed increase and boost/volume efficiency. You may be getting a 1:0,8 ratio and generate a lot more heat doing it
Turbo or Blower, it all depends on the application, how the engine was made, what parts it has and everything that belongs to the tuning of the engines all counts some cases blower its better combo and some case turbo all depends what you gonna do with it are it straith line track car or driffter.
It is an amazing looking car. It's hilarious how much is kept secret when really it's just everything is ballistic protected. You know the suspension is basically a truck setup, engine, i'm certain you can hear is a V8, i'll be certain it is a diesel V8 derrived from the likes of the REO where you can run it on almost every kind of flammable substance, besides that, some little tech bits, it'll have some oxygen tanks but nothing like built in jammers or any crap like that, that's what the other vehicles in the motorcade are there for. Though i would love it if they just once... at least once.... did a burnout.
Your engines are amazing and you don’t need to try an hit numbers for any of us. We like seeing the motor run and like when you say the motor is GOOD HAPPY AND SAFE AMD READY TO RIP. But leaving hard and hitting high numbers are for rookies not for us real ppl. We know the engine dyno is not the end all be all at all. We know this is more so an assembly check ect ect ect. But it’s not a replacement for chassis dyno or the track. . We love it.
Full throttle does not need full opening, its Pumping Loss or someshit. Honda have worked it out in tuning. You need a throttle body in front of turbo only partially open until launch. Will be on fullboost ASAP Works well on manual street cars between gears also
Does super funny thing about Steve is that my friend that went from a GED to a Master engineer think she is an entire know-it-all and it is extremely funny to see him and how he has no real common sense about the way things happening everyday life but you remind me of him in some ways Steve because of the way you operate but you are on like a 90 IQ overall level above what a master engineer actually is did they qualify during college
Steve did you think of using the type of boost control system that Mark Micki runs? No waste gates and boost is controlled by 2 blow off valves in the intake tube.
I remember I think it was Stavtech on here and IG shared some rally tech where they take an additional throttle body and mount it in front of the turbo to create a vacuum within the compressor. Same concept of the wastegate just further pressure reduction into vacuum. Like how a vacuum cleaner speeds up when you block the inlet.
I had a moment of "damn bro don't tell me that..." then I checked and realized I am 51mins in already without noticing! Stoked to have half an hour left.
The reason the turbo spools suddenly is because of the air pressure in the hot side (exhaust) not being high enough to force itself through the blades of the turbo. This results in little to no flow through the hot side (as pressure increases heat also builds more quickly) until enough pressure is achieved to begin flowing air through the hot side instead of building up pressure against it. Ways I can think of to mitigate this is having smaller runners to the hot side (so less volume of air is required to build enough pressure), making sure the turbo shaft spins as freely as possible, different turbo blade geometry, waste gate/bypass/dump/other valves on both sides of turbo, anti-lag systems, electric motors spinning the turbo (as demonstrated by one of the latest Porsche engines), etc. all of which may compromise certain areas of performance. ...But that's all just to say air bouncing off a fan doesn't spin it until that air begins to flow through the fan, if that makes sense, that's why the turbo lags the way it does. It's all about optimizing the turbo speed to hot side pressure ratio to minimize lag.
Sick video thanks for the shoutout dad 💪🤘
Love what you and your family do! I hope everyone is well!
You Guy’s…
Honestly….
Congratulations…to all at SM’s
Subbed!!!
Couldn’t find your channel by Kyle morris. It led me to a golfer. Had to do the @ search.. subscribed ❤
@@khawli6032 link in description.
Man I love these videos. As someone with a love of big horsepower, but neither the space nor the money to build something myself, SME is like hanging out in your buddy's garage while he works. Brilliant.
i got news for ya, doesnt matter how big of rod you can stick in an engine, mcfarland tuning and crew will destroy it.
You write that like he cares. He makes money on people pushing these engines. That big block didn't owe anyone anything when it let go the first time.
Give cleet a wartsila diesel rod😂
@@--_DJ_--you and I both wrote comments like anybody cares. That's the way she goes bud.
Yet ANOTHER keyboard warrior. Jealousy is a terrible thing.
I don't care what he does as long as it entertains me. (or you) Let that sink in. Cleetus did. All the way to the bank.
@@realblakrawb what?
Crazy butt relevant, I was thinking the same thing before I seen the video of the waste gate and thought that needed a flat to build pressure then release to spool faster because the evacuation of the exhaust pressure will be quicker like in the three valve per cylinder application
Steve you built the DEVEL OMG. WOW❤
I enjoy when you are going through your brain to figure issues out. I always talk myself through things to figure them out.
Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge
It's great that you tell us EXACTLY what set-ups you're using on each different engine combo.
Now my boy's and I will have to subscribe to Kyle's channel 😅😂
The turbo will make more power, but the blower will be more controllable.
Hell yeah turbo all day.
@HoldPublicPigsResponsible just depends on what type of racing. For lower level stuff I agree.
@@1clnsdime1I’ll pick a turbo all day any racing. It’s proven already. Roll racing which I do in my coyote I have twin 64s precisions makes about 1400 on highest map on e85. I like how nice and easy it is to turn up boost on turbos. A few buttons and I switch between maps. Also it’s my daily driver. Tuned by lund. Built motor from FFRE.
Wonder if you could do a twin setup but running one procharger and a turbo in the same package and get the befits from both.
Steve using Cleetus name for views at this point 😂 the beef is cookin’!
What beef?
@@auldman ole Cleeter ditched the SMX in favor of a Pro Line Racing HEMI
@@MikeHoncho69420 starting shit when you don't have a clue...Priceless humour bud, priceless.
@@MikeHoncho69420you people are incredibly weird
What would be super cool, is 3000 HP on engine dyno, straight into the car, and hub dyno... Put the estimations to bed, once and for all
Can you write a dyno loading scaling facor for the 1st few seconds or under a given rpm? Instead of 1:1 input to output. Use a subprogram to produce 3:1 for the first 2 or 3 seconds of the pull to get more initial turbine shaft speed
I understand you need one to one for accurate numbers from the dyno. But you also need exaggerated load to make the turbo spool.
What's the max amount of boost that a big ol 144mm turbo will make?? A little shot of nitrous would have brought it right up on boost, correct?? I see alot of people adding a small shot of nitrous to get it on the chip faster.. its unfortunate that you couldn't figure it out with the time you had because I'm guessing that motor & turbo are going to make some crazy power
I have a 5th Gen Camaro SS. I definitely debate if I should go ProCharger or a turbo setup. Still want to drive it on the street and highways. Also want to do some long distance trips too
Put a volatage regulator in front of the Holley ign driver board and call it a day. Can make one for pennies.
Also could add an accumulator tank before the dyno brake inlet, should help the power transient.
You can always have a smaller turbo feed the larger turbo.
So what does a procharged SMX sound like preferably not with zoomies not a big fan would be sweet if it was though duels out the back but doesn’t seem practical if you happen to have any videos or know of one setup with single side exits. I know turbos tend to quite engine noise would love to hear one.
Listen here on my car with SMX
Excellent video Steve, love how you explain everything.
Hi guys love you all 💕💕💕💕
Awhile back i heard someone talking about spinning a turbo electrically assisted at low speed to help it through the lag period. Never caught the follow up on how it worked...
Does the additional work of dynoing your customer's engines with turbos show you anything you otherwise wouldn't be able to see if you just tested them all NA? I.e., does the boost show any points of failure or defects that you otherwise wouldn't catch?
What size fuel rails are used on a SMX? Cleet's new Pro Line Hemi has a 16AN fuel rails which is like 1 5/16" inner dianeter. 😂
Awesome! Love the hour specials!
Very interesting. I’ve always wondered, is it even possible to daily drive an F4 ProCharger, or even and F3 ProCharger. They both run off of gears vs belt.
I see a SM Extream Dyno for real load world being created by that brain.
Just saying....😊
LOL at the cleeter peter beaters in the comments...
"reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee he's using a Mopar in a camaro!!" hahahaha
so stunned
Don’t forget to rebuild it. Put the daily driver tune on it
You would need to put a smaller turbo in series to spool the bigger one faster at lower rpm
One day I WILL own one of these bad mother trucker!!!!
The size of that procharger 😂😂🤣🤣
You can spin tubbo with MGU or Rocket Anti Lag.
Sounds to me like they need to build a better Dino like one that you could do two step and actual load on the motor like it would be in the car
How come you couldn't just do rolling antilag to build boost and sit exactly where you want it before doing the run?
9:03 WARTERR, WADDA, WATER COOLED
Imagine engineering something so over the top it overpowers and makes someone else’s engineering fail at measuring how over the top it is
Dual compound turbos?
That was a fantastic video!! I appreciate all you and your team do. I'm sure it's not easy with the workload.
I have to digress to the early part of the video though. I'm kind of a big dumb animal. Did you call Dewey an idget? Yes, I am that old. Yosemite Sam would be proud. 😂 Keep up the great content.
Steve talk to lou at fuel tech as he appears to be the person that's done the most work on the pro mod setups,
that's why I messaged you about running these e-gates months ago and Mark Mickey was running this setup at the pro finals at Bradenton.
Turbosmart Straight gate on the chargepipes,no gate or egates to be seen on the hot side
Looks like the difference between the Turbo SMX and the Pro Charge SMX is about 23 feet . Gigggity
Great content thanks for sharing
Great video!
Dang 1400 at 8 psi vs 1525 at 20 psi? Looks like the turbo is a bit more efficient.
With no intercooler and no meth how do y'all keep the intake temps down?
That is a lot of information. Dang. I need a mental shutdown. I'll just ago back to my embedded C programming course for a while. :)
Steve i was going to comment but I have to wake up early to mow the grass. I work at night.😁😁
You can’t convince me a turbo is better, I don’t drag race and don’t care about winning races. I like the power to come on fast, and the noise is better. When I was a kid I thought turbos were better, then I drove a manual transmission supercharged v8.
Speaking in parisitic losses turbos are absolutely better.
@@Ole_CornPop of course, but I don’t think anyone could drive a supercharged vs turbo v8 and say the turbo is more fun. Faster? Probably
@spcneary with anti-lag they are just as fun on the street. More power is more power no matter how you look at it. My choice is twin smaller turbos instead of one big one. For drifting I actually like a N/A settup with individual throttle bodies and as small as a flywheel as I can have. I do still love superchargers though but with anti-lag, 2 step and 3 step it's hard to lean with a supercharger/procharger/blower for racing applications because you can do more with less.
@@spcneary when comparing boost for boost, similar size compressors between a centri and turbo in a actual car...turbos boost curve is far better. Where say at 3000, a centri will be making like 1 to 2 psi, a turbo will be at 6. Centris curve is linear no matter what. Centri have "lag" in comparison.
One giant turbo.
Hey, Steve, Kyle, get a bigger screen.
For the laptop
Hey Steve, I am 66 years young and I need a best friend. What do you say?
Leaned a lot , thank you.
Been looking forward to this one :)
A lazy turbo engine? Just install a "James Taal" with a big nitrous bottle in his hands. Problem solved! 😂😁🤘
it looks like you just going to have to deal with the Hub Dyno
USE THE SMALL TURBO TO SPOOL THE BIGGER TURBO, THEN A GATE CLOSES THE SMALL TURBO UPON THE BIGGER TURBO ENGAGEMENT
Where's Jackstand & his bottle of spoolmaster 9000 when you need him 😂
@@extcreat I wasn't invited
The SMX showdown/ blower vs turbo, I personally like blowers! You are the man Steve!
I bet you do like blowers 😝
Thanks Steve for putting out awesome videos not many engin builders will go in depth to show how to do things and even when you have problems you still show the world it goes to show what a great and honest engin builder u are 🇺🇸🇺🇸
The fact that you have the facilities to film that intro is pretty frikin' cool.
He's got the machinery to whittle an SMX out of a raw chunk of metal, and it's the engine dyno that impresses you?😂
@thelonewrangler1008 To be fair, theres actually 2 dynos 😂
I like the rag over the wastegate outlet. Reminds me of when I was walking thru the MAZDA engine plant in Hiroshima Japan. This was in the mid-1980s. There were little kids’ toy pinwheels mounted on the backs of the computer controllers that ran the machining line. I asked the Mazda engineer I was working with what was up with the pinwheels. He said they were mounted behind the computer cooling fans. If the pinwheel was spinning the fan was working. If not, a passing employee would notify the millwrights that a repair team was needed.
At Ford’s (& probably all other American engine plants) plants there was an electronic monitor on each machine. Cost comparison: 5 cents for.the pinwheel vs probably $50 for the electronic babysitter.
Good on ya, Steve!
The 5 cents doesn't account for labor costs involved in monitoring the pin wheel
Back in the 80s when I was taught to drive a semi truck, that's when the old mechanical diesels could be made to run pretty easily if you knew what you were doing or knew someone who did.. anyway one thing that was taught after you turned the pump up was to plug the waste gate and man would those things come alive!!
Compound turbo! That turbo is so big that you've introduced turbo lag on an SMX. Which is not something I ever thought I'd say or thing was possible.
Needs some spool aid.
Wish I thought of this, well played sir.
That’s what 2 step is for or if rolling anti lag. It’s 2024 only places you see turbo lag is in diesel. Or someone who doesn’t know how to tune. But he is using a engine dyno you don’t use either of those so yes it take a second to build and literally just a second it’s building pretty fast
Don't toss that charge pipe, "give" it to me with your and Kyle's autographs so I can put it in my garage. My friends will be blown away!
18:25 It's the Dewey decibel system!
If ever there was a race car engine candidate for a Switchblade turbo charger upgrade… here it is. Steve I doubt you’ll even read this but if you do please look up Blaylock turbo chargers in Baxter Springs Ks. My friend Jim Blaylock patented a turbo charger modification for just this sort of issue. And they are making great strides in this design. It uses a simple mechanical mechanism fed off of boost that changes the internal volume inside the turbo charger turbine housing to act like a smaller turbo charger at lower RPM to spool quickly & then as boost increases, it opens up to flow more.
Sounds like a variable vein turbo like some of the new cars come with
@@SpudstrodamusVGT turbos are very old technology
It doesnt make turbo smaller, it just makes turbine housing more restrictive. I dont know how something can be patented if it was found 40 years ago by someone else, and forgotten because it didnt work.
Yeah, I was about to say, that's just a VGT. Your friend may have patented a better way to achieve that result, but the idea isn't anything new. And as far as I know, with a VGT you don't necessary need a dump valve as you can control the boost pressure by changing the position of the vanes.
@@JuniorJunison They have a small RUclips channel but most vids are at least a couple years old
So what did we all learn here today? Blowers=Cheat code Turbo=Incremental complexity
blowers break alot, shake cars apart, and make a ton of low rpm power that can blow the tires off
turbos make those problems go away but are a tuning nightmare lol
Blowers = parasitic loss (whether crank-driven or belt)
@Make-Asylums-Great-Again yep! I remember one of the nhra top fuel guys saying that huge blower on them takes 400hp to spin
You can always tell when Steve is very deep in thought because he only says half sentences 😂
😂 or shh's the shop or moves because it's too loud, he can't see.
At the 56 minute mark you mulling over egate. If you want to improve boost response and get turbo spinning quickly, you need to cut the flow of air going into turbo inlet. Even bleeding off boost won't help. A vacuum cleaner screams when you block it. The noise you hear is the extra rpm it's doing because it's not able to grab air and move it. The turbo is the same. As it moves air it needs input from exhaust wheel to drive it. Air has mass and needs energy to move it. Kill the clean air getting to it, and it can't absorb energy by moving that air. It can, therefore, speed up more for the same exhaust flowing thru engine. Once you have it to the desired turbo rpm then let it eat air. It's counterintuitive.
@@donmathias1705 so put another throttle body in front of the turbo and pull it partially closed for a brief moment to act as an "anti-lag"
RALLY STYLE ANTI-LAG SETUP ON A BIG v8 NEXT FROM STEVE MORRIS ENGINES!
144 MM SINGLE TURBO, LOL😂😂😂😂😂😂LMAO..1000 hp on 4.lbsnof boost, well it’s got to be the safest 1000hp engine out there,m😂😂😂
Maybe it will bc it will come on so late the turbo won’t strain the internals as much
Kinda like a big turbo vs stock turbo on a little 4 banger
Big turbo safer IF u don’t moon boost it.
Prochargers are rampid in NoPrepKings due to the fact it is easier to tune and faster reaction that is right there with the Blower combos. Turbos are hard to tune but, once they are tuned they are hard to beat.
Spell check in RUclips not that great... I meant rampant... thanx for the spell check lol.
Rampant
That's gay as hell
@@fartzinacan- Rancid?
@@danmyers9372 great band, but no. Spelling correction for "rampid" in the original post.
Turbos arent even a factor in NPK way to unstable to tune. Procharger for the win
Another SM video. Jus what I needed todays has been rough
Watching Steve build fun stuff puts my mind somewhere else ✓ I have a list of things dropped on me this week. "Yeah"
you are starting the run a little too high on the turbo. hold it at 3,000rpm then let it go. I saw you were holding it at 5,000 and only giving it 3,000 rpm to rev. its a turbo. it needs wider rev range
if it isn't building boost because of the rear wheel sizing thats a problem. but you have so much exhaust gas it shouldn't have this problem. what is the rear wheel/housing size? also turbo is not intercooled. thats a problem regardless of methanol etc. a turbo needs an IC
That turbo motor that you're doing is doing the same thing My LS motor did on our airboat no power no power all the sudden white ass open!
idea: quad charged setup with a crank mount procharger, twin turbos and a roots blower. it will last exactly 1 pass but hey it will be glorious
Can Steve Morris build a 2 step dynoemulator?
Keep sending it, Steve. Your the best.
I think that Professor Steve Morris will figure all this out eventually because he has to know. Thanks for taking us along on your journey. That Dyno and software is hiding the "rest of the story".
I'm a supercharger guy myself. I don't have one, but If I were to get back into racing, my ride would be supercharged for sure.
Big turbos always suck at lower rpms, they don't get enough gas velocity to work over a wide range...☹
Twins of a smaller size can help if sized correctly and with oem cars variable geometry makes huge differences to driveability, my 2.2 litre Ford diesel makes over 330 lbs/ft at 1500 rpm with minimal turbo lag, with a variable geometry turbo that has done 201K miles without any repairs required...
whats the name of the guy with the fox body in the uk, i couldn't quite figure it out, amazing vid steve!!
Jason wear I think he said
Life where money (or not the lack of) doesn't hold you back... just building what ever you can imagine! Nice......
Supercharger= near instant power.
Turbo= Turbo lag, but a little more potential.
Also power requirements to drive a super charger vs exhaust gas propulsion, not a big deal when you have thousands of hp so much😂
Would be cool to see some sort of compound setup feeding into the procharger
And turbos are a lot more complicated to power manage as was clearly demonstrated in the video. And this is with the engine on a dyno vs in a car.
@@ruckus__no need to do a compound system with gas engines. You can’t put the boost to a gas engine that you can to a diesel,. Yiu can only add so much boost to a sparked fired engine before you have detonations issues that start melting things or breaking rods, you don’t detonation issues with diesel because in stead of spark you spraying the fuel in to get the ignition.
Turbo recovers energy, supercharger uses it. I still like blower characteristics for the instant torque off idle for most things.
Drag and drive car in England? We have 1 drag strip at Santa Pod. 🤣
I guess he’s going to drive it there and drive home?
I wish I could see the reaction of Jean Pierre Kraemer @JP Performance GmbH Dortmund Germany at 8:54 when Steve talks about a "street car" engine 😂😂😂
Why wouldn't you just change the dyno start to load rpm to 6500 since the turbo won't light below that on that many cubes? It probably needs a smaller exhaust housing if you want it to start making boost at lower then 6500.
SMX in England…righteous!
@@bonose12 anyone know where he is gonna race i always wanted to see a smx pass im in england
@@112boatmangotta be Santa pod, one of the most popular drag strips in the uk
@@This_Time_Next_Year_Rodney cheers i will check it out
where’s he going to get e85 here in blighty?
@@eliotmansfieldmight be having it shipped in. I know there’s some companies that ship to other countries
Engine air temperature is critical to making power. Gale Banks talks about it a lot with his boosted applications. I did not see air temps as part of the data set, so it might be smart to monitor the charge air temp for a clearer picture of what is happening.
Gale banks is talking about diesel, pro mod engines runs on alcohol that's the ticket for not running an intercooler the air charge will be cooled be the fuel nothing else is needed
Gale even talks about the affects of alcohol cooling when he takes a try at building a proper diesel for monster trucks, he even tried to run massive alcohol through his Dmax. I think Steve has even tried charge cooling on Methanol and it didn't help much. Iy comes down to more parts= more weight on the car, and more complex to he already crammed engine compartments.
Gale has done done gas engines too!
The blade design on the supercharger is critical to move air
Dependent on the design parameters you design the turbine blades to move "x" volume of air at "y" rpm under "z" ambient pressure
Taking rpm "y" *1,6 does not necessarily equate to volume "x" *1,6 at same ambient, it may only be "x"*1,35 etc
So the sweet spot has a +- percentage tolerance of say "y" +10% overdriven or "y" -5% and that would be your efficiency range.
By simply speeding up your blower does not necessarily equate a 1:1 correlation in speed increase and boost/volume efficiency. You may be getting a 1:0,8 ratio and generate a lot more heat doing it
144mm turbo? Almost a pratt and whitney turbine now
Would it be feasible to put an A/T between the engine and the dyno?
It would test real world applications.
Even when using a chassis dyno or hub dyno, they don't typically shift during the pull and usually make it in the 1:1 gear.
Turbo or Blower, it all depends on the application, how the engine was made, what parts it has and everything that belongs to the tuning of the engines all counts some cases blower its better combo and some case turbo all depends what you gonna do with it are it straith line track car or driffter.
It is an amazing looking car. It's hilarious how much is kept secret when really it's just everything is ballistic protected. You know the suspension is basically a truck setup, engine, i'm certain you can hear is a V8, i'll be certain it is a diesel V8 derrived from the likes of the REO where you can run it on almost every kind of flammable substance, besides that, some little tech bits, it'll have some oxygen tanks but nothing like built in jammers or any crap like that, that's what the other vehicles in the motorcade are there for.
Though i would love it if they just once... at least once.... did a burnout.
Great content Steve!!! 👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Your engines are amazing and you don’t need to try an hit numbers for any of us. We like seeing the motor run and like when you say the motor is GOOD HAPPY AND SAFE AMD READY TO RIP. But leaving hard and hitting high numbers are for rookies not for us real ppl. We know the engine dyno is not the end all be all at all. We know this is more so an assembly check ect ect ect. But it’s not a replacement for chassis dyno or the track. . We love it.
Full throttle does not need full opening, its Pumping Loss or someshit.
Honda have worked it out in tuning.
You need a throttle body in front of turbo only partially open until launch.
Will be on fullboost ASAP
Works well on manual street cars between gears also
Does super funny thing about Steve is that my friend that went from a GED to a Master engineer think she is an entire know-it-all and it is extremely funny to see him and how he has no real common sense about the way things happening everyday life but you remind me of him in some ways Steve because of the way you operate but you are on like a 90 IQ overall level above what a master engineer actually is did they qualify during college
That’s why I love watching your videos over others, waaAAA! vs WWWaaaaaaaaa!!! Steve Morris shop talk-Friggin Cool!
Steve did you think of using the type of boost control system that Mark Micki runs? No waste gates and boost is controlled by 2 blow off valves in the intake tube.
I remember I think it was Stavtech on here and IG shared some rally tech where they take an additional throttle body and mount it in front of the turbo to create a vacuum within the compressor. Same concept of the wastegate just further pressure reduction into vacuum. Like how a vacuum cleaner speeds up when you block the inlet.
Charge Air Control
damn, 80 minutes. steve on here makin feature length films
I had a moment of "damn bro don't tell me that..." then I checked and realized I am 51mins in already without noticing!
Stoked to have half an hour left.
The reason the turbo spools suddenly is because of the air pressure in the hot side (exhaust) not being high enough to force itself through the blades of the turbo. This results in little to no flow through the hot side (as pressure increases heat also builds more quickly) until enough pressure is achieved to begin flowing air through the hot side instead of building up pressure against it. Ways I can think of to mitigate this is having smaller runners to the hot side (so less volume of air is required to build enough pressure), making sure the turbo shaft spins as freely as possible, different turbo blade geometry, waste gate/bypass/dump/other valves on both sides of turbo, anti-lag systems, electric motors spinning the turbo (as demonstrated by one of the latest Porsche engines), etc. all of which may compromise certain areas of performance. ...But that's all just to say air bouncing off a fan doesn't spin it until that air begins to flow through the fan, if that makes sense, that's why the turbo lags the way it does. It's all about optimizing the turbo speed to hot side pressure ratio to minimize lag.
Turbine is open, gases can flow easily through it without pressure. Compressor side is more important, if it is not on a map, it does nothing.