I always found learning this pressure to be a bit annoying. Put your flaming pitchfork down, I love Melee. However, learning to pressure people in a way that's even slightly functional feels like banging your head against a wall for hours on end, and it all happens so fast that you don't get the best feedback. Sure, practice tools exist but the fact that I have to use them at all is a bit of a pain. So I play Yoshi! He's MUCH easier to work with in this regard.
I should specify. I'm not saying I shouldn't have to practice to see results, I'm saying that I wish I could just play the game against people and have that be an effective way to learn, without having to REALLY hit the books and grind a single interaction against a non-interactive CPU with some sort of practice tool.
@@mjul7003 You can play people and have it as an effective way to learn. It's about mentality. Once you learn something new, or a new tool, you can apply it by playing with people and being in the lookout to apply it if you see an opponent abusing certain tactic or you pick up on their habits. Playing against people is the effective way to learn, because it's the application of theory and the things you practice in the lab.
Attackers advantage is a great way to phrase what in the past has been mostly referred to as timing mixups because it's a more all encompassing term for what's actually happening. Yes you're mixing up the timing, but framing it as an advantage that only increases the likelihood of success is a fabulous way to encourage people to think about the concept. Great video!
Hax seriously, you make some incredible melee content. This video is awesome, talks about something everyone knows and perhaps even think they understand, but there's so much to it.
@jme - Technically yes, but there's no one to really be like "Okay he's not banned now," other than Mikey that wrote the initial ban. And it's time it's been rescinded.
@jme - Happy to get real information out there dude. No one really knows what's going on, so the situation is just stagnant. It's good that Hax has 1.03 to work on now, as that's a healthy focus while he can't go to tournies.
Hax is refining SSBM the way we need. Little tweaks to the game, extensive analysis, and the passion for creating alternative controllers, are key. Then we wait either for a clean room reverse engineer of SSBM, or for SSBM to enter the public domain, which might be the year 2096. Even then, the meta of SSBM will still be evolving, or maybe it'll be 20XX.
@@setxjrichie9745 idk, i think it definitely was a bit of an accident, cause ain't no way the devs were thinkin about the options that beat and lose to double shine -> grab and stuff like that
They’re also overused. I see falco more than I see my family nowadays. At least 7 out of every 10 matches on netplay you encounter Falco. it’s insane how many of these guys think they’re different because they play the bird instead of fox
@@caseyandrade6417 Lol i play marth's all fucking day because of "omg zain is so good i want to lick his asshole maan". If you are triggered over meeting falco who is the pretty shit in comparison to the other top tiers you are just bad lol.
There is a high falco dair on shield that still let's you beat shield grab with shine. It is not often spoken of and I wouldnt have put it past Hax to include it here. Sadly he didnt. Notable players who use this regularly are Mang0 and DaShizWiz. The dair is input at the very peak of sh and connects on the first frame it is active. You then continue to fast fall first frame possible. Pretty strict but certainly possible and for sure worth mentioning.
@@magicbread8111 Actually not really thinking about it. Westballz used to use it sometimes to go into the double shine or tri jump pressure he loved to do. But Ginger really doesn't go for early dair like that, he liked up tilt or dash back pivot laser from what I remember. He has probably used it at some point but it certainly isn't a staple for him.
theres also an insta early nair with falco that looks super unsafe but beats shield grab bc you nair way before it hits their shield, you can ff shine before grab comes out. its more of a spacing/ timing thing but its really tricky. also theres an ac bair vs fox shield that will usually push fox too far away for him to to get the shine, but your shine actually hits. mango does this bair more than anyone, and i think this one of the reasons why
You know when you hear a word too many times and it starts to sound unnatural? Happened for me at the 12:20 mark. I was looking at the "Spotdodge shine" and I was like.... Shine... what's that
you need to resolve simultaneous grabs somehow. your options are either: as the disk currently does it (port priority), randomly (which seems even worse than port priority), or having grabs clang (which is imo the "best" answer if youre designing a game from scratch, but mods introducing new mechanics will probably never be accepted for major tournament play). so, not really, no.
@@esthersmith3056 RNG seems better than port priority if you ask me. in the slight chance this interaction happens id rather have a 50-50 than just one port always winning.
I feel like aerials that are worse on shield than -6 aren't always mistakes bc ppl aren't going to be able to frame perfect shield grab every time, unless there's a shield grab buffer I'm unaware of, and obviously aerial drift and spacing matter a lot
I didn't get why Samus up-B is not a threat, is it because doing shield pressure correctly will not allow up-B to connect? Otherwise, there are some details about Samus up-B. For starters, it is not that good of an option, and it is only certain to connect when the shield is hit by an early aerial. It usually only leads to get out of pressure: up-B will not kill, it only does 10% at most, and Samus has to land -slowly- in order to move again. However, if up-B takes Fox of Falco to a platform, specially a high one, Samus will be actionable before them. For example, up-B into the high platform in Yoshi Story, that will lead to a down smash even if they tech. This position leads to an edge ward situation at mid percent and it is deadly at high percent.
idk if it’s just me but even tho i didn’t have a problem with the evidence.zip vids i feel like the recent melee tech vids havent been of the same quality as the ones he made in the past although now that i think about it it’s probably because they’re more spacie focus as opposed to mechanic focused
sun tzu wrote the art of war
hax money wrote the art of shield pressure
@jme Lets not forget his wisdom on how to play Falcon:
- L+R+A+Start
-Pick Fox
"Now that we have gone over the basics..." Bruh...
lmaooo
This is the type of instructional melee i have wanting from the pros for years! Thanks for being as open as you are Hax!
Keep up the content! Love it!
You rock, luke
Spacies shield pressure is one of the biggest reasons i play this game instead of ultimate
I always found learning this pressure to be a bit annoying. Put your flaming pitchfork down, I love Melee. However, learning to pressure people in a way that's even slightly functional feels like banging your head against a wall for hours on end, and it all happens so fast that you don't get the best feedback. Sure, practice tools exist but the fact that I have to use them at all is a bit of a pain.
So I play Yoshi! He's MUCH easier to work with in this regard.
I should specify. I'm not saying I shouldn't have to practice to see results, I'm saying that I wish I could just play the game against people and have that be an effective way to learn, without having to REALLY hit the books and grind a single interaction against a non-interactive CPU with some sort of practice tool.
You don’t have to use anything. Nobody is forcing you.
@@hibernate44 Good, because I never said otherwise
@@mjul7003 You can play people and have it as an effective way to learn. It's about mentality. Once you learn something new, or a new tool, you can apply it by playing with people and being in the lookout to apply it if you see an opponent abusing certain tactic or you pick up on their habits. Playing against people is the effective way to learn, because it's the application of theory and the things you practice in the lab.
Attackers advantage is a great way to phrase what in the past has been mostly referred to as timing mixups because it's a more all encompassing term for what's actually happening. Yes you're mixing up the timing, but framing it as an advantage that only increases the likelihood of success is a fabulous way to encourage people to think about the concept. Great video!
^👍👍👍👍
Hax thought melee was so easy, that he taught the world everything he knows in order for there to be a challenge upon his return to the scene.
It would be awesome to get a video on counterplay for this.
Poggerga.
Ratio
@@olie567 Ratio ratio.
PSLAMIST* SPIRIT BOMB!!!
*with Leffen pronounciation
@@MrApmuk - SssssllLAAAWWHWmist????
Hax seriously, you make some incredible melee content. This video is awesome, talks about something everyone knows and perhaps even think they understand, but there's so much to it.
ah, yes; another video that i watch despite me maining roy
bro i don't even play this game any more and i'm still watching all of these vids
Hax could be a professor teaching at some ivy league but chose to put his talents into Melee lol
this man is giving away all his secrets please unban him already 20xx grows closer every waking day
@jme - Technically yes, but there's no one to really be like "Okay he's not banned now," other than Mikey that wrote the initial ban. And it's time it's been rescinded.
@jme - Happy to get real information out there dude. No one really knows what's going on, so the situation is just stagnant. It's good that Hax has 1.03 to work on now, as that's a healthy focus while he can't go to tournies.
Professional smashers hate him!!
But for real, I’m stocked that Hax has remained in the community. A real net positive
his videos are just too good people always wanna watch lol
Net negative
Hax is refining SSBM the way we need. Little tweaks to the game, extensive analysis, and the passion for creating alternative controllers, are key. Then we wait either for a clean room reverse engineer of SSBM, or for SSBM to enter the public domain, which might be the year 2096. Even then, the meta of SSBM will still be evolving, or maybe it'll be 20XX.
People say melee is an accident, videos like this make me think it's a masterpiece
videos like this show why it was an accidental masterpiece
@@s_gaming71 it wasn't an accident at all tho 🤷🏽♂️
@@setxjrichie9745 idk, i think it definitely was a bit of an accident, cause ain't no way the devs were thinkin about the options that beat and lose to double shine -> grab and stuff like that
@brok3n_806 Yeah man I'm sure they just made sure to add 3 different shields and the ability to move them around for no reason at all
spacies are sick
They’re also overused. I see falco more than I see my family nowadays. At least 7 out of every 10 matches on netplay you encounter Falco. it’s insane how many of these guys think they’re different because they play the bird instead of fox
@@caseyandrade6417 Lol i play marth's all fucking day because of "omg zain is so good i want to lick his asshole maan". If you are triggered over meeting falco who is the pretty shit in comparison to the other top tiers you are just bad lol.
There is a high falco dair on shield that still let's you beat shield grab with shine. It is not often spoken of and I wouldnt have put it past Hax to include it here. Sadly he didnt. Notable players who use this regularly are Mang0 and DaShizWiz. The dair is input at the very peak of sh and connects on the first frame it is active. You then continue to fast fall first frame possible. Pretty strict but certainly possible and for sure worth mentioning.
Does ginger not use it?
@@magicbread8111 Actually not really thinking about it. Westballz used to use it sometimes to go into the double shine or tri jump pressure he loved to do. But Ginger really doesn't go for early dair like that, he liked up tilt or dash back pivot laser from what I remember. He has probably used it at some point but it certainly isn't a staple for him.
theres also an insta early nair with falco that looks super unsafe but beats shield grab bc you nair way before it hits their shield, you can ff shine before grab comes out. its more of a spacing/ timing thing but its really tricky. also theres an ac bair vs fox shield that will usually push fox too far away for him to to get the shine, but your shine actually hits. mango does this bair more than anyone, and i think this one of the reasons why
Yo can u maybe link a video on this? I’d love to see this.
The nair height/shield advantage visual is so good wow
why not just multishine until you win
Because then the Illuminati will kidnap you
and give you arthritis
Try it and find out
You rock Hax!
Mfw I go to grab my opponents shield and they respond with a frameperfect tripleshine grab spotdodge
been loving these spacie videos 👌
You know when you hear a word too many times and it starts to sound unnatural? Happened for me at the 12:20 mark. I was looking at the "Spotdodge shine" and I was like.... Shine... what's that
when you watch these videos then realise that your friends don't do what haxx assumes the opponent will do haha
everybody who watches hax$ is a friend
IM STILL MAD YOU WALKED BACK ALL YOUR WORDS EXPOSING LEFFEN BUT I STILL SUPPORT U
Great video
Is it possible to create a mod that would remove port priority so that all ports are equal?
you need to resolve simultaneous grabs somehow. your options are either: as the disk currently does it (port priority), randomly (which seems even worse than port priority), or having grabs clang (which is imo the "best" answer if youre designing a game from scratch, but mods introducing new mechanics will probably never be accepted for major tournament play). so, not really, no.
@@esthersmith3056 RNG seems better than port priority if you ask me. in the slight chance this interaction happens id rather have a 50-50 than just one port always winning.
@@dereklewis4321 I feel like percent might be a better determining factor than anything. If both are at the same percent, then RNG is fine.
smh just grab when they’re shielding
Hax has still never once made a bad video. Thank you for all you do, sir 🙏
I feel like aerials that are worse on shield than -6 aren't always mistakes bc ppl aren't going to be able to frame perfect shield grab every time, unless there's a shield grab buffer I'm unaware of, and obviously aerial drift and spacing matter a lot
And then falco said to the smash brother "bird up!" and that's when John Smash said "BWA BWA BWA"
how are you supposed to input dair on frame 2 of SH without claw on GCC
cool vid
My head hurts
Dark triad
if plup had picked port 1 he would've beaten prince abu at evo
now, I only have the art of fu zi left to master
I tried this in practice and the hard part is actually getting your opponent locked down lol
I just started multishining and started figuring out all the options that it beat and didn't beat.
And now I know it all.
I didn't get why Samus up-B is not a threat, is it because doing shield pressure correctly will not allow up-B to connect?
Otherwise, there are some details about Samus up-B.
For starters, it is not that good of an option, and it is only certain to connect when the shield is hit by an early aerial.
It usually only leads to get out of pressure: up-B will not kill, it only does 10% at most, and Samus has to land -slowly- in order to move again.
However, if up-B takes Fox of Falco to a platform, specially a high one, Samus will be actionable before them.
For example, up-B into the high platform in Yoshi Story, that will lead to a down smash even if they tech. This position leads to an edge ward situation at mid percent and it is deadly at high percent.
I think the reason he called it not a threat is because, like you said, it's not a great option.
don't call it an art when spacies are broken as fuck - G&W main
Shield c-stick makes OOS options like roll, spot-dodge, and full hop more attractive
What was that tri-jump air dodge tech? I can’t find any information on it
"NEGATIVE" LMAOOOOO its MINUS BRO
Wtf are you talking about?
20XX is here
In what video does Hax$ cover tri-jump airdodge?
Hello!!
idk if it’s just me but even tho i didn’t have a problem with the evidence.zip vids i feel like the recent melee tech vids havent been of the same quality as the ones he made in the past
although now that i think about it it’s probably because they’re more spacie focus as opposed to mechanic focused
Why doesn't hax fix Phantom hits in Melee 1.3?
Phantom hits aren’t a glitch and getting rid of them won’t really change anything
nice
Amazing work Hax. The melee scene positively thrives with you in it. Cheers.
Peach's shield pressure is better lol
But why are items off
amazing video. needed it ten years ago lol