Can I Make Wing Chun Work?
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- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2022
- I Took Wing Chun for 1 Day from @KevinLeeVlog and then I tried to use it on my own in sparring.. Is Wing Chun the most legit specialty Martial Art? Is it a valid form of Kung Fu? Is it effective?
Again, big thanks to @KevinLeeVlog for helping me out with this. Please go subscribe to him!
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Wait, Wing Chun works? I love how you made those sparring rounds look easy!
Depends who your teacher is I think 😂🙏
@@SenseiSeth …. Also depends who the student is.
I respect the way you and some of the other people you often collaborate with are willing to try things that you have no personal experience with to give them a fair try. If you got something useful out of a single day, keep at it, during the sparring if you had gotten position as you used your new tools you’d have noticed even more functionality.
@@SenseiSeth doesn't Anderson Silva use it?
Go fight with wing chun in MMA
The way Kevin taught this makes me believe that this is truly the way Wing Chun was meant to be used. Very knowledgeable teacher and not so indoctrinated by the traditions of his art to avoid breaking conventions and practically testing the techniques. More martial arts would benefit greatly from this kind of learning and application. Awesome stuff! Definitely makes me respect Wing Chun a lot more and makes me want to take a second look at it.
The whole form over function reminded me of arguments that would happen on martial arts discussion groups back in the 90's where Wing Chun guys would get into internet arguments over what angle their fore-arm should make with their upper arm in certain postures like bong sau, etc. It was crazy.
The point that Kevin made about the holding the swords is a clue to how it all went so wrong for traditional martial arts. When the martial arts first came to the west, people asked questions like "why should I take this class? What is it for?" The easiest answer to those kind of questions is "self defense", but the problem is that martial arts almost always involves weaponry, and we don't carry weapons around for self defense these days. The word "martial" means military, and most styles have some connection to military training, even if it's way back in history. The goals and methods of military style training are very different from self defense or sports competition.
That being said, I would still rather be a Kung Fu guy in a MMA match than a MMA guy on an ancient battlefield.
@@killersalmon4359 lmao that happened? Would’ve loved to witness that
Seems much better than those Wing Chun master from China
@@ambulocetusnatans Well said. The martial arts styles that are highly favored these days and that usually get used in mma are almost all developed in a post military/weapon society and with some safety gear in mind like gloves. The older arts instead of adapting and changing became more esoteric and theoretical because they lose their chief application.
I've met a Wing Chun practitioner and got to spar with him. One of the coolest sparring experiences I've ever had. It was years ago, but I'll never forget it.
What were the things that stood out to you? If you still remember any details...thank you!
@@screamtheguy6425 It was a super constructive sparring match. The guy was polite, encouraging, and had insanely solid punches. He brought a full contact helmet with him and offered to let me borrow it. I'm not used to wearing a helmet while sparring so I declined.
It was older (not olympic) TKD vs what I believe to be legit Wing Chun, at a small kung fu school my TKD instructor and I were visiting. (He was also visiting, and was the only guy there. He was the first person I sparred with that day.)
I couldn't match his punching speed with my blocks, he saw this and encouraged me to use my kicks. I tried to focus on combos. I definitely believe he had more years of training than I did at the time. We both learned from it and he told me to not give up on my dreams. I'll never forget that day or that guy, and the Wing Chun style will always have my respect. ^_^
I really liked your comment. I have always been fascinated with it. It looks amazing but just didn’t see the application as being reasonable to use in a real situation. I am more interested now that I seen the video and read through some comments. Thanks
I mostly spar with other martial arts practitioners in order to steal their techniques and ideas to improve my own.
@@pianoandguitarlover2773 that is a great way of expanding
Very cool video, sir! I really admire the CONCEPTS of Wing Chun, so it's especially cool to see it with realistic APPLICATION in sparring.
Ayo damn, cant wait to see shane make a boxing mix wingchun vid(kidding)
The guy on the vid doing Wing Chun, kinda looked like Connor Mcgregor upon sparring. Do you agree? I think he did ok.
The concepts are cool but are hard to apply. Bruce Lee spoke about being like water but showed us quite the opposite as he was full of tension. Ultimately to make Wing Chun work one has to be very relaxed and it is probably not something that should be used when squaring off with a prepared fighter. Not that that is ever a really smart thing to do anyway. I do find it interesting that athletic fighters attack soft pads in their workouts while Wing Chun people attack what is basically a telephone pole.
The wing chun focus on using adapted response to any attack. But it is really hard and long to condition yourself and be able to improvise the technics effectively. I am not saying it' is a better martial art : in fact, focusing on technics that is probably not efficient in short terms, and a bit useless if there is not enough physical work out against really stronger opponent. The style is great to learn a good back posture usefull in a lot of situations, and the technics are very interesting too.
didn’t respond
Huh, the emphasis on parrying attacks rather than flat out blocking them reminds me a lot of sword fighting, where the emphasis is to knock the blade aside before executing a quick counter. Thanks so much for showing!
I mean didnt kevin say at some point that the style is meant to be with daggers or smaller style blades in both hands?
@@CoffeeZombi-ATL1 Yep, exactly. But it's since evolved into a way to fight empty handed in confined or crowded spaces. But people bring knives into narrow alley street fights, so that's where some of the criticism comes in.
It's funny you should mention that. My main area of training is Wing Chun, but I've delved into HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts)...there's a lot of crossover in principles between Wing Chun and a lot of early surviving european sword styles.
A lot of the structures of Wing Chun (specifically when Kevin is talking about how he can have his guard with palm down, palm up, and vertical hands) are based on a sort of cone structure...you find the same thing in I;33 sword and buckler, a lot of German longsword, quite a few rapier styles; all sorts of weapons ranging from the 1300s to the 1600s.
You even get technique crossover. When Kevin is describing Lop Sao, what he's describing is very similar to a technique called Zorn Hau Ort in German longsword
@@bladeofhel Yeah I've watched a lot of HEMA videos online and that's where I got the sword fighting comparison from. Good to hear some specific examples though!
I've been interested in (never really practicing though) Wing Chun for a lont time, but I'd never really thought of that until watching this video, when he said that I thought of specifically fencing with a rapier which has a similar philosophy of redirecting incoming strikes with your own as Wing Chun and I had just never made the connection
0:45 The reason for that weird immovable stance that I've heard from distant relatives from China was because Wing Chun was a southern style which meant it was developed in southern China which was full of rivers and lakes and the main mode of public transportation were river boats, row boats and junks which were very unstable platforms to fight on, so you need a stable stance that kept you from falling overboard when the boat rocks on the water. If you watched the original Karate Kid movie, the scene where Mr. Miyagi teaches Daniel how to keep his balance by having him do forms on a rowboat is a perfect example. Since most Chinese southerners have developed strong forearms due to constant rowing of boats it would be natural for their fighting style to evolve into an upper body strike based style with limited front line low kicks since haymakers, blocks and fancy kicks would throw you off balance on a rowboat and straight line punches and one inch punches were more practical since you need to throw strikes down the centerline as fast as you can before you lose your balance as the boat rocks. The problem is adapting these techniques on land. The closest you get to adapting it today is as the Wing Chun guy here suggested, in narrow crowded corridors or bus aisles or subway trains.
Probably practiced while fishing.
A lot of these southern martial arts developed in urban areas as well among triad groups. Wing Chun and its related styles would have primarily been used for shanking people in alleys back in the day lol. Monkey Steals Peach has an excellent video on southern styles
I see it as a modified horse stance like you see on karate, TKD, and long fist to name a few
actually wing chun was developed on spaceships of ancient aliens, balance is very hard on space and 0 gravity could throw you off balance hence why they focus so much on a stable stance
the stance is just a stable mathematical position for the body
it's not "use 100% of the time or you are doing it wrong" type of deal
I really appreciate seeing wing Chung properly discussed and represented. This is why I love your channel. Kung-fu in general has been getting a bad wrap because people want to perform it instead of using it and if we lose these arts and understanding behind them it would really be a travesty for humanity. It's just a great example and microcosm of how to be human
Factual I always try to represent Chinese kung fu as a Chinese person I feel like it’s sad to see my martial arts / culture be shunned in in the community martial arts is a set of tools gotta use em right
@@zaae199yes, what people on the Internet don't understand. The Chinese fighting arts are actually very effective but there are tons of people who have only been taught the forms but don't know the true application of the techniques. Especially the internal arts , they do stuff lots of people have never seen.
As an asian person who loves martial arts, I just hate it when people do our way of fighting wrong and everyone ends up calling it "Bullshido"
...pain
Well said 🙌🏼
i think you mean wang chung
I really really love how you implement actual sparring footage instead of just drilling. It gives what Kevin taught you actual dimension. Great video
I was impressed, especially after having only one “informal” lesson in Wing Chun 😂
I have a sparring partner who did high level wing chun and I was always incredibly impressed by his parrying. Made me focus on getting more creative with faints. Having perfect strikes redirected is just a different type of frustrating lol.
Anderson Silva, Tony Ferguson and Jon Jones all use Wing Chun techniques in their fights. Zhang Weili, Song Yadong and Zabit use various forms of Kungfu too.
@@silveriver9 Why do you cultists keep pretending professional fighters train WC. Name one single WC coach at any of those guys' gyms. There are none. You clowns are just trying to spread cult lies because you yourselves can't actually fight.
@@silveriver9 haha funny.. Exactly the same 3 that came to my mind!!! They use a hella lot of it too!!!! Coincidentally they're my favourite fighters xD. ONe could argue that they use Wing Chun in the 'jeet kune do' type of way. But it's still Wing Chun of course
@@silveriver9 I have searched for this footage many times yes :D especially the Anderson Silva footage is out of this world, in my opinion. But all three of them are fabulous.
My MMA gym doesn't teach wing Chun, but they do teach a lot of parrying, but mainly to learn not to parry too much lol. It's definitely frustrating to get parried. It's a very useful tool if you don't overuse it.
Coming from a wrestling background, Wing Chun made the most sense to me out of any of the "striking" arts due to the pressure and redirecting focus. I don't even really see WC as a striking art by itself, it's more like a stand up wrestling to set up and facilitate strikes
Yes, this is it exactly. I came to the same conclusion from the other direction.
I started doing longsword and grappling is pretty common, so I've picked up a bit of wrestling...the first time I did that basic pummeling drill, the underhook overhook shoulder to shoulder one (I still have no idea what it's actually called) I was like "this is chi sao, but at the shoulders."
So many kung fu forms are just air wrestling which is then misunderstood and taught as basic striking.
Using Chi Sau and playing with Wrestlers trying to weave through my guard to take the back of my head from a standing position was fun.
By just discussing the principles of the Chi Sau defence/counter without teaching them any form, they adapted their skillset to the ideas super quickly and the 'sensitivity' drills helped their passing of defending arms so much better.
Well said
I 💯💯 agree! I use a lot of Wing Chun in my hand fights and it really helps me to get into better positions!
I took wing chun for about a year, its takes a lot of time and dedication to get to the point where its practical in a real fight, but the guys at my dojo who had reached that point were untouchable. Literally. Our dojo focused a lot on the “sticky hands” techniques and the people who had been there a while were so fast and coordinated that any split second that you weren’t actively controlling/blocking/hindering their hands… there was a fist in your face.
Can they beat mike tyson now?
How can I find a good teacher? What should I look for?
@@szubal Well you might be limited by the number of wing chun dojos in your area. I dont know where in the world you are located, but if you have a choice between different teachers, I would say look to the one that seems the most honorable. That might sound cliche' but for real, you never want to learn from someone who encourages violence or seems to have an inflated ego. Find someone who seems highly skilled but with a calm, patient, evolved personality. I also look for authenticity. I look for a dojo that focuses on one very specific style of martial like wing chun, as opposed to someplace with a name like "something something martial arts center." If you're looking to learn MMA, thats obviously a different story, but wing chun is a very old Chinese martial art and so I would say look for a sifu who seems very respectful and centered. If the teacher seems like they like to show off, or gets offended easily, find somewhere else. That's just how I look for a master.
Hope this helps!
@@john0803 ehhh, i dont know about that. Mike is long since retired but probably still extremely fast
@szubal there are many styles within Wing Chun from different interpretations along different lineages. I find you can't go far wrong with a teacher from the Wong Shun Leung lineage (WSL) such as Gary Lamb or Wang Kam Leung
One thing I can say for a fact. Practicing the wooden dummy has saved my ass in real life situations more than once. I reacted when I needed to and was only hit once by a guy twice my size. One little black eye was all i got. Wasnt even bad. Good to mix other styles as well of course.
That’s nice, getting hit in a fight is basically a fact, so you did pretty well! Did you lay him?
Kevin is the man!! Super nice, too. He's a legit Martial Arts and is high level in JKD, Kali, and just got his BJJ Black Belt.
Great video! Glad you implemented it into your Sparring.
@@southtxguitarist8926 I'm glad times have changed!
Watch how to full side split in 2 weeks
ruclips.net/video/MFvghYQ3pAU/видео.html
I heard Kevin is also in Silat as well. I've seen some of his videos doing Silat, so idk if he trains or already mastered it as well.
Sensei Seth's channel starts to remind me of the old Discovery show "fight quest" and I like it. I love the open mindedness ofnSeth, trying to figure out what's useful in each martial art or why they are like they are (stances, uniforms, techniques). And all that with a ton of stupid puns which always crack me up. Keep at it!
I loved that show!
That was a great show, solid telly :)
I forgot about that show. It was really good!
Me as well! Was a show that really got me back into training.
Best martial arts show of all time
I absolute love the fact that as a trained fighter, being skeptical (With good reason) you went into this with an open mind and came out feeling entirely different about it. That not only says a lot about the art; but you as well. I appreciate that you never let ego get in the way of results.
I find Wing Chun interesting because it looks to me like a strike focused martial art for people with not a lot of body mass. Other, especially western, styles rely on momentum a lot to make their strikes effective, while Wing Chun is all about technique. This is why I think the practitioners of other styles sometimes get sceptical about it and this is also why I think it might actually be more useful and practical than other styles for certain kinds of people.
Yeah, because Wing Chun was originally created by a woman. It is usually used for physically weaker people to defend themselves without having to use muscles.
Your observation actually makes sense, considering that Wing Chun was created by a nun, Ng Mui
I think it looks like an absolute scam, things like chain punches are not only worse than other similar martial art punches, they're actually worse than an untrained fighter's punches. Paying money to learn that?
Kinetic energy is 1/2m • v².
That means that both mass aswell as velocity play a role in the energy of strikes. Velocity however by a higher margin. Momentum vs Technique is not a good way to say it. All fighting sports require proper technique to be executed well. However there are some that give you more freedom whether to strike fast or hard like boxing. Whereas in Wing Chun you prioritize velocity. Technique is needed in every sport.
I’d also like to point out that wing chin focuses a lot on bone alignment. That’s another reason why there’s not a lot of swinging kicks or punches. A lot of the power comes from the fact that nothing bends in the punches or has to be balanced by using muscle to make a struck powerful.
I appreciate you giving it a fair shake. Wing chun has such a bad reputation, but I honestly found my sparring game was improved when I started doing wing chun, and I felt more in control of my defense. It's not the only style I'd rely on but it's definitely a tool in one's reportoire, in my experience.
I think the major thing is that you actually DO spar. I did wing chun for a while and we had hard sparring rounds every session. This is where I learned to actually fight (after having done capoeira for my whole childhood/youth). It took me years to realize that most wing chun schools actually did not teach any practical fighting knowledge but just form and brainwash.
@@karimshebeika8010 I've been to 4 different Wing Chun schools in 2 different cities and only one of them (the one I'm at now) teaches sparring.
That's such a waste honestly....
@@karimshebeika8010 that's a lot of dojos I think
@@yopomdpin6285 I think it depends on what you want. If you want to be a fighter, then of course sparring is invaluable. But for self-defense you don't want to necessarily spar all the time.
@@kbanghart even for self defense you need regular sparring cause that's how you put in practice the theory and technique training. Sure you probably need less than someone who wants to be a full-fighter, but it's still 100% necessary if you want to apply it to more realistic scenario.
The only time sparring isn't needed is if you're just training to exercise your body
I've always felt the focus on parries over blocking in Wing Chun was a good thing, especially in situations where your opponent isn't trained... Also I could see redirecting someone's punch into your elbow ending a fight without even having to swing on someone in a street fight... If you managed to catch someone's first punch with that technique and they break their hand, they are probably gonna change their mind about fighting you and you are gonna look like a total badass lol...
You can also just swing down in someone’s collar bone. It only takes less than 15 lbs of pressure to break it which results in them no longer being able to lift their arm. It’s also the most commonly broken bone. I often see it with Motocross or BMX falls, or skateboarders falling.
@@lutador13 Seatbelts often break collarbones in car crashes also... I mainly meant the pure badassery of making someone hurt themselves by trying to hit you.. When you can win a fight without throwing a punch, they probably don't want to find out what happens when you actually start swinging... Kind of like the old trick of slipping a haymaker to the outside (usually from a drunk guy who has all his weight behind it) and leaving your leg in front of them so they trip and look stupid... Maybe it's just me but I think there is nothing more badass than being 100% defense in a fight and just making your opponent hurt themselves...
@@lutador13 Or even just having good head movement and dodging everything until they are too tired to keep throwing punches... There is a video by FightSmartTrav (How to win a street fight with simple head movement) from like 10 years ago of him taking some gloves out on the street and letting random people try to hit him while he dodges and slips everything...
The problem is if you miss the technique, which is the most likely scenario, they hit you. That's not a smart way to fight. You have almost no ability to control anything your opponent does. High risk moves end in failures.
@@MrBottlecapBill That's why i mentioned your opponent being untrained... People who don't know how to fight telegraph everything and are extremely predictable... I aim for some parries and redirects when I spar, but it is always accompanied with head movement so I have a backup plan...
I train in ITF Taekwondo and I have this guy in my dojang here who's trained in Wing Chun as an additional style to his primarily ITF skill set. In our sparring rules, we do have punches to the heads as well though we preferably kick a lot more but this guy is equally good on both aspects. Other than being able to deliver powerful kicks, whenever he does punch, he really hits with scary precision and his fists are just too damn fast that there's no way you can avoid them if you are in close distance. Which is why whenever we are doing the boxing trainings in the class, he's mostly there to teach the class and even our instructors would stand alongside the rest of the students just to learn from him doesn't matter if they are of higher ranked than him or what.
and u still cant fight weeb
I really think a lot of that is very applicable. The vertical punch is less readable than the usual punch, even tho less powerful. The parrying and defense in general is honestly very useful, I do both boxing and muay thai and often find space to use similar techniques. The kicks are a good way to throw them off balance when they step foward, and the chain punch is just a weaker combo without guard. Obviously not a practical fight on its own, but very applicable on diferent martial arts and comparable to the techniques used on other fighting styles.
That's a pretty decent assessment I grew up studying Wing Chun boxing in Middle School some kickboxing but I'm not a fan of high kicks personally. The way Muay Thai uses the front kick and hook kick is very similar to the Side Kick application in Wing Chun/JKD the lung punch in boxing is also good to make up for range... The chain punch how they're throwing it only really works in a combo close range like side kick chain punch (2 punches) elbow (3 punch) opposite arm....front kick chain punch hammer fist/backfist etc. The defense of chain punch is used with a pax sau. You do sacrifice speed with the wider circle but you have defense and it is much easier to execute with boxing gloves. Essentially the speed bag is a bigger circle as well and gloves make it harder to trap.. no palm to the neck to control the body. A lot of Wing Chun practitioners haven't trained to know their disadvantages when putting on gloves... A boxer will immediately know the difference when they put on smaller gloves cuz they can't guard the same. The opposite needs to be done for Wing Chun!
The less powerful is not a matter if they would be bare knuckled (like in an actual street fight). One first hit for disorientation with a follow up and most people would be done.
Also your supposed to use the opponents energy and moment for your purpose.
E.g. a covered straight kick to the top of the knee, when the opponent is attacking with the hands while closing in on you. Not something you could even try in sparring, since it would be to dangerous to cripple the opponent...
Seth's seriously a master martial artist. Single day crash course, dudes executing brand new techniques in live sparring. Shits dope.
Anyone can do it if they are in tune with their body, have a passion for it and can learn.
@@koudacyen its still impressive to learn the skills in one day and then apply it in sparring, sparring
@@isaiahsaavedra6242
OK
On what Kevin said about getting "trapped" in the training is almost by design. So much of modern wing chun has been defined by 1 man's teaching method, Ip Man, who deliberately wanted Wing Chun to be as accessable as possible to anyone. You can't do that without removing a lot of the fighting, because fighting is hard.
Good point. Somebody else mentioned that they were taking Judo and Jujutsu at the same time to get a more well rounded view, and I studied Hapkido and Aikijutsu for the same reason. I think it would be good for all Wing Chun people to look outside of the Ip Man branches. It isn't easy to find a non-Ip Man style Wing Chun school, but certain branches of Crane style blend well with Wing Chun, and some of the older styles of Karate could also be helpful.
That's not on Ip Man but the teachers that came after him. Ip Man's students were famous in Hong Kong for being good fighters and for fighting anyone anywhere. The problem came after Wing Chun became famous and teachers wanted more students, pretty much the TKD effect with the McDojos. It happens to all martial arts that become famous.
@@Mcgiver699 If you read his son's biography on him, it's clear that how Wing Chun is taught now is a direct result of Ip Man's teaching method.
It is the same process that happened with Tai Chi. It cam from a more martial art, but to make the rest more accessible it pushed most of the martial out of it.
@@southtxguitarist8926 To be fair to strikers, the rules eliminated 90% of their most efficient defenses to grappling "for safety reasons".
If you try a double leg take down at no holds barred you get an elbow to the spine.
great video! I studied wing-chun for a while when I was younger and I loved it. Particularly for me, I like the focus on parrying and redirection over blocking. I also found that the training helped me a lot with my mind-body connection. also, the community is generally pretty chill in my experience. glad you enjoyed it.
I think one reason why Wing Chun sees less viability is also the nature of how fight rules are set up. More often than not you'll be sparring with boxing gloves that make hand-trapping more difficult to pull off, and even in MMA those gloves will still provide resistance and prevent full range of motion of your fingers. Obviously there's also the fact that Wing Chun itself is in desperate need of more pressure testing and cross training, but I think some of the concepts behind it actually do make some sense.
You make a very good point. A lot of the criticism I see levelled against wing chun is complaints it's no good for MMA fights, which have a certain set of conventions and rules, and everyone who takes part is a seasoned fighter; whereas wing chun was originally designed by a smaller, weaker person who is not a fighter or athlete, to use against a larger stronger opponent; to take down an attacker trying to kill you as quickly and efficiently as possible, usually using the element of surprise when one is seemingly defenseless (which is ruined if you step into a ring expected to fight and announce your style), then run as soon as you've incapacitated your opponent enough to get away from them. For this purpose, wing chun is effective; but that isn't very applicable towards fighting as a form of entertainment (unless the person doing it is Donnie Yen ;)
Nah mma gloves are perfect for WC
@fionatsang9353 doesnt suprise help with most fighting styles?
I always appreciate how open minded you are about every martial art (except taekwondo 👀
Hahaha
Nah he probably loves TKD, just not the dojos or the way they train lol
He practices Taekwondo alone in his room at night to no one catches him
@@jestfullgremblim8002 yea that just seems to be one of the running jokes he has made videos with atleast one taekwondo instructor before xD
@@yuritrasimaco5201 yes deep down he knows that kicks are all you need (:
Used to practice Wing Chun 3 times a week a few years back. On Wednesday we practiced for competition, on Saturday, traditional Wing Chun, on Sunday: street fight, escrima stick and grappling. My teacher liked to mix things up like Bruce Lee
this kind of WC i want to learn.
So u did jeet kun do 😂
@@fteambjj wingchun is jkd but intercepting and with kicks
@@Imjustspeakingmymind no, it isn't. the footwork is quite different. master lee took took influence from boxing and fencing to put into his jkd. jkd is meant for mobility
Gotta love guys like Kevin who teach martial arts (any martial art) the way it’s supposed to be taught and trained! Awesome video 👍
Thanks for testing it out. Kev and Sifu Fong are great instructors and Wing Chun can inform all of your other martial arts. I use it rolling in BJJ and that vertical punch is fantastic when sparring. Double jab followed by the vertical (Sun) punch can be a show stopper. It just hits differently, somewhere between a cross and a uppercut. Most people never see it coming.
Wing Chun seems like that character that's really difficult to use in every fighting game, but if you get good with them they're a beast.
Hey, thats what i think too after research and training in this martial art
Nothing in this video indicates that wing chun is actually useful in a fight, though.
@@Mmmmilo or actual history
@@Mmmmilo well the parrying was espcially thatbforearm parry is interesting, if someone with no gloves on hits there, there is a good chance they've broken their hand.
@@Mmmmilo MMA fighters used it
I've always knocked Wing Chun for its use as a practical martial art primarily because of its focus on speed + number of hits rather than power + precision, but from an historical context... fast, close bodied blows with no blocking techniques, only parries, makes a whole hell of a lot more sense if the original intention of the Martial Art involves knives as sharp as razor blades in your hands instead of fists.
If its a fist fight and I have to pick between a 250lb boxer and an 80lb Wing Chun expert I'll pick the Wing Chun guy every time... but if you give the Wing Chun guy a pair of knives, I'd think I'd rather take my chances punching an angry bear... I'd be more likely to survive.
Well let me just explain wing chun has a simply different mindset. The idea is that if you’re defending the lives of your family, if you go down, you family is dead. If you go down, your friend is dead, if you go down, your gf is dead. That’s the whole idea behind the less powerful strikes is because there is much less risk involved when you don’t commit your body so much into your one strike, and just letting your other hand go Willy nilly until you can rotate your shoulders to get another powerful shot. With that being said, wing chun is based off of the balance of give and take. Weak and strong. Those quick and less powerful techniques are to be used in combination with heavy hooks, uppercuts, and strong straight punches where we turn the entire body into. Wing chun has hooks and uppercuts 🤯 and everything in between too. Take-downs, wrestling escapes, and chokes are all in the wing chun forms, the problem is finding an instructor well informed enough to be able to instill that into you. Thank you for having an open mind!
A lot of chinese martial arts were actually created in response to weapons rather than just fist fights.
Some of the movements look strange, they seemed to open up lots of spaces if you are fighting unarmed combatants, but they are designed to close the distance between fighter and the armed assailant.
Historically, it was the peasants versus the soldiers.... everywhere, not just in Asia
Hmmm, interesting… I’ll take a note of that.
This is true of most traditional martial arts. Historically weapons training was the main thing to practice and unarmed was an extension of that. It was much easier and faster to adapt the armed techniques to work empty handed, than have a completely different style just for empty handed. The assumption (that's often forgotten or ignored nowadays) is that you only fight barehanded as a last resort. When you do it's very unlikely that your opponent is also barehanded. These are not meant for competition or gentlemanly boxing (I count barehand street fights as gentlemanly boxing here). These are meant to keep you alive in a life or death fight, and in a situation like that it's very rare that neither participant has nothing to use as a weapon.
wouldn't you want to pick between a 250lb boxer and 250lb wing chun expert?
This was very interesting! Thank you for sharing this! 🙏
Good video descriptive tutorial of your honest learning process! Great 👍! Have to say your video is a refreshing perspective, seeing it from a vantage of learning instead of the usual vitriolic narcissism that inundates the typical RUclips channels focused on Jiujitsu, MMA, the UFC, and overall anything fighting in general. You break from the norm of toxic. Thank you for sharing.
As someone who's been practicing Wing Chun for four months now, it feels very very refreshing to see it being taught in the way it was 'meant to be used'. Of course, every Wing Chun school is a tad different from another, and I did notice some significant differences in the way Kevin teaches as opposed to how my instructors teach Wing Chung, but all in all I'm very happy to see other schools put the art into a more usable practice, as opposed to the indoctrinated 'chasing hands' bullshit most Wing Chung schools brainwash their students with. Amazing stuff!
Kevin Le teaches wing chun in a pratical way to be used in fight
Some instructor and school sadly teaches in a way so you can be the best dancer.
Honestly, if you train it to learn how to fight/defend yourself, switch to something actually viable, like boxing. If you do it just for fun, then nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend you are learning actually useful skills.
@@SwordWieldingDuck Boxing is for sure the best thing you can train to win a boxing match, but if you mean "viable" as in self defense, then you need to stop deluding yourself first, before giving the advice to others :D. We are talking punches, blocks, deflects, kicks, takedowns, grappling and weapons in self defense and you are talking: "boxers punch hard == viable" which feels kinda clownish. And ofc WC doesn't give you all of that either, you should cross-train, it's still bit more versatile than boxing though. If we measure power punch strength only ... and I'm not sure why should we ... boxers have the edge though, for sure.
PS: to give you a clue of how I apply that in my own life. I trained karate goju ryu in the past, HEMA, iaido and I was taught informally some nice joint locks from aikido. I also learned how to handle firearms very early in my life, but I don't carry. If I start I will practice draw drills for sure, otherwise it's just a paperweight on your belt. Now I'm practicing WC and I'm really badly out of shape, so I'm mostly trying to get flexibility, strength and endurance back. When I do I want to do boxing once a week, but keep practicing wing chun. If I stick to the training, I want to drop boxing in a year or two and start practicing BJJ 1x - 2x a week still alongside wing chun. And after all that I wouldn't call myself "viable" still. Because it's still not all there is to it to actually defend yourself :D. Boxing is like 5% of it.
@@AdamTuxTengler boxing doesn't only teach you how to punch hard though, it also teaches you how to punch fast, in combinations, how to punch from different angles, how to dodge punches via footwork and head movement. And it is by far more effective that wing Chun for an actual fight, though I do agree that it is not as useful as some other arts that have more tools, such as Muay Thai or sambo and many more. Also punching is definitely way more than 5% of fighting, look at MMA fights, punches are almost always what is done the most.
@@AdamTuxTengler If we’re talking about it being used in a self-defence situation, Muay Thai is by far the best striking art.
YES
As a wing chun practitionner this video is exactly what I've been trying to make both wing chun haters and wing chun elitists to understand.
Thank you Sensei !
Also just for information, there are lot of different style of Wing Chun, and some (like the one I do) uses way more kick than what is said in the video, it really depends on the teacher.
🔥🔥
Cmon bro. The only "real teacher" is ip man.
I couldn't agree more
@@MrMancreatedgod those movies were a mistake, they forced a huge market onto the wing Chun community proving disastrous for its development and reputation when frauds get their nose disfigured for their ignorance.
oh man my friend is a wing chun elitist xD
he’a not necessarily down on other fighting styles, he’s just seen too many MMA meatballs who don’t have strong technique outside of punching.
Love your videos mate, love the open mind you bring and the humour you use.
I really like the way how you always have a few good words about the martial arts you tried. and it was brilliant how you summed up how there a difference between being the master of techniques and fighting.
This is everything I have been saying for years about WC. It works if you know how to use it. Also the way we used the chain punch was mostly as a set up because the forward pressure makes people react defensively. Even if it's just for a split second you get that moment of them putting their arms up and out to stop you, at which point you can use any of dozens of pushes or grabs to get in close and deliver the real strike. It's even better when you start with a low kick because then their attention gets scattered between low and high.
The only thing it need is some Muay Thai leg action. This would make a great addition to any of both martial arts
I’d still take boxing over WC. I’d say learn boxing first then try to modernize WC.
I’d like to see this WC master spar a boxer striking only rules.
Until you get taken to the ground and have your arm broken or choked out
At the 10-second mark in this video, you'll see me use chain-punches for exactly that purpose ... a defensive flurry to his face that bought me time to recover, and also brought his arms up high, which opened him up for a belly-kick:
ruclips.net/video/LO3BJIF0ej4/видео.html
@@johnathanl487 I'm not technically against what you are saying, boxing will teach you plenty, but why finish your thought with: "I'd like to see this WC master spar a boxer, while taking away half of his style, because I want to see them do boxing, just with WC, so I don't actually want WC to be used ...". How does that make any sense :D. There are few kicks in WC true, but they are important part of the style and I assume elbow blocking is not allowed in boxing? So what's the point of this test? :D To prove that boxer is better at boxing under the boxing competition rules? I can tell you they are without the test :D.
Interesting seeing how Sensi Jessie planted the "WING CHUN SEED" in the minds of Sensi Mike and Seth. We see how they both have grown working with different training ideas and partners.
This is so much better than the training I received back when I did Wing Chun a decade ago. I'm actually going back to it because I can't strike the same ways I used to and I can't grapple as much as I'm used to grappling due to severe worsening of my disabilities, so this video was incredibly helpful because it gives me a better idea of how to make Wing Chun work in a way that I can figure out considering I don't have any teacher this time around due to no schools where I now live. This video was super helpful and I will be revisiting it whenever I need a refresher on how to keep things a little more lively so to speak.
Really great teaching skills at display here! Well done!
I used to train Wing Chun alongside MMA a while back, so I got a pretty clear understanding of it's application for MMA at least. Let me tell you, it's not a terrible martial art like people say, at least not Wong Shun-Leung's branch of it like I tried.
you can effectively clinch well because of the structured stance you take, the hand trapping works & is underutilized in combat sports, and you can really swarm your opponent with strikes that actually have more power than you'd expect from the stance.
The weaknesses of it I found explains it's lack of use in combat sports though. Wing Chun users fight flat footed and require that in order for the stance Seth shows at 0:54, and to generate power, so you can guess how much of a blast wrestlers have with that. It also doesn't do especially well against someone who knows their lateral movement well. There are some angle changes Wing Chun has to mitigate this, but when the entire style revolves around the centerline & someone is good at just removing their whole body from where you're aiming, you're basically fighting on the backfoot even if you recover from it.
There's definitely gold there & as whole it works, but there are fundamental counters that experienced guys can easily exploit. Although for self defense, hardly anyone really knows how to fight, so you could honestly wreck normal guys using it.
I read your entire comment and I pretty much agree 100% my solution to fixing the weaknesses of Wing Chun is to mix it with other martial arts
P.S. I train for mixed martial arts and self defense and love Wing Chun an martial arts in general
You bring up a good point, but it's not true 100 percent of the time. A lot of martial arts train to fight other martial artists, but it's a whole differnt story out "in the streets" as they say. Untrained fighters can be unpredictable, and won't follow the rules. One of my old teachers used to say " A lot more back belts get hurt by white belts than the other way arouind." and from what I've seen, it's just as true in the alley as it is in the Dojo.
The footwork from old English pugilism complements wing Chun and xing yi very well.
Okay… then still, to hell with wing chun, I’m just going to do kickboxing because I don’t need to “complement” it with anything.
If you have done your work properly.. there is no way they can move away from your strikes. That is because proper WC only strikes within less than a 2ft distance to the OP. Furthermore... that so called bad footing... gave me no problem with knocking out three blackbelts in Jujitsu... as well as kicking a disrespectful fighters kneecap... and him needing a month to recover (I used less than 15% of what I was capable of delivering).
Furthermore... the WC punches / strikes... are only as powerful as you have trained them. They teach the basic principles of short range power... but how many WC people do you know, that have trained their punches from 12 inches... gradually down to One inch? Proper WC is "Internal".. and an internal strike is called "Fajing" (Fahh Jing - Explosive Power). I used to train my strikes on a hanging bag filled with about 15 lbs worth of steel BBs. Hit it right... was like hitting a solid Iron Girder. It took about 3 months of daily 1hr dedicated sessions... to get Fajing at Inch ranges.
As such... I was able to Easily KO several fighter from my mostly extended lead guard hand. Less than 6 inches of travel... with shock absorbing MMA gloves on.. and used less than 20% of the power I was capable of dishing out. With bare fists... and less than 2 inches of space.. Im 100 percent certain that I was capable of causing a person to have brain damage, with a fist to their foreheads.
In fact... Fajing is not just for Punches. I once used it with Jut Sao (downward forearm deflection), on an MMA fighters attack towards my gut. I only used about 10% on that one... as this was supposed to be a friendly demo. However... since he got angered... he used full power, full speed... and the resulting impact forces nearly caused his wristbone to shatter. He was in pain... and within less than an hour... it swelled up nearly double in size. He would be in great pain, for many days to follow.
You can see an example of Fajing by searching "Glen levy fajing hammerfist".
The issue here... is that If you cant execute a Leg stomp that drops the OP... and if you cant execute a KO or other stopping / lethal strike to the OP... what are you left with? You will have to do far more evasion, as a result. You will have to greatly Alter how the art is designed to Operate (combat vs sport).
WC does have a lot of quick footwork. That said.. its not designed to be a "Bunny-Rabbit" sport art... where fighters jump in and out... with their rabbit jabbing strikes. Its designed for close quarter, lethal, combat... to be able to take out multiple attackers, as quickly as possible. (created for use by Rebels, that were trying to take over the govt. of that Era. The "Female" story.. was completely made up)
If you have allowed an OP to get past all four ranges of combat (Long Kick, Long Strike, Short Kick, Short Strike) without issue... then you have proven that you have failed your art. That you have not fully mastered, what you were taught.
As for your mention about people not knowing how to fight... Thats a statement you should Never make. A combat artists NEVER makes Assumptions about the OPs capabilities. And the thing is... the idiots that could be the most problematic... can often have the most real barefist experience. They are used to getting into countless scraps (Ive met people like this, IRL. I used to work with one of them!). They may have lost 30 past fights... but they are all the more hardened, skilled, and wiser.. because of it.
Also.. Some people are naturally more athletic, and fluid, than others. Even without any former training... outside of possibly dancing, and or general sports play.
The point being... Is that you cant be Sloppy and Weak... and still expect to be able to defend yourself realistically, and well, in a real situation. One wrong move... one split second error... etc... and you are eating pavement... with the OP curb stomping your brains into a pile of mush.
Quoting the old Karate Kid movie: "There is only Good Karate." Meaning.. if you are doing it poorly / wrong... then its not considered Karate.
Whoa, am I beginning to feel like the time I spent training Wing Chun that felt genuinely effective wasn't all a fever dream?!
Is the world ready for an actual Wing Chun-aissance?
Well once people stop looking at Kung Fu movies and look at real Chinese martial arts, they'll learn the actually useful stuff. Chinese kickboxers are on the rise too.
@@Gongolongo you mean like xu xiaodong who uses muay thai and bjj? His social credit is absolutely wrecked after knocking around traditional chinese martial artists to prove they were full of nonsense
@@Gongolongo go try to find “real chinese martial arts” in any video anywhere on the internet. It’s few and far between. You’ll see 300 videos of kung fu getting it’s ass kicked for every 2 that looks good. Mostly you’ll just find shuai jiao and sanda.
@@beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488 he literally has a kung fu background. he entered his first mma fight with zero bjj or muay thai, at that time and broke his opponent's arm with a kick. he has never claimed cma was nonsense, he claims fake cma masters and schools are nonsense.
Anderson Silva, Tony Ferguson and Jon Jones all use Wing Chun techniques in their fights. Zhang Weili, Song Yadong and Zabit use various forms of Kungfu too.
This was great Seth! I am obviously a wing chun tragic, been mad about the art since I first discovered Bruce Lee in the 70's (and some of my Chinese teachers actually knew him back in the day) but really appreciate your open mindedly giving it a go! Sifu Kevin is a cool guy, he knows what he is talking about for sure and I actually learnt something then (the elbow against fist gaurd, very valid idea). If I could throw in my 2 cents worth, we generally dont strike to the head with our punches, we prefer palm strikes and use the fist to the body. Also you were doing good in the sparring, an idea I use is 'kick a kick punch a punch' - when he kicks kick his kick! Centreline punching can end up being punching a punch but all you care about is striking through, the centreline punch will deflect whatever he throws thats not on the centre. What Kevin showed you with that punch to the bag and you expand out and drop your weight - spot on, that's an advanced concept that works real well. In the end Wing Chun is meant to be a very creative art based on not giving the other dude a chance, always non telegraphing straight in and full body weight in everything you do. Bruce Lee really was on to it. Some Wing Chun people diss him believe it or not but three of the very highest level Yip Man / Chu Shong Tin lineage (my lineage) practitioners I know with like 40 - 50 years experience have said to me that they still really admire him and get what he was saying.
'Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system' - Bruce Lee (1968).
Thanks for a great vid mate! Dave, Australia
Shows the benefits to a fast learner but also a talented teacher. Good job guys!
It's actually crazy how much overlap there is across most arts .
The vertical punch and three knuckle contact are very similar to what jack Dempsey describes in his book on boxing, in the book he explains the same concept of the power line to the elbow with the same weight shift only he refers to the technique as a jolt. Also Ramsey Dewey has a video up on it, because of course he does
Yep I've been saying this to many people yet they still don't give wing chun a second try, mainly because of how alot of wing chun shool trains only drill and no sparring
Hell, classical pugilism in general bears a lot of striking (heh) resemblances to Wing Chun, due to the classical Fencing influences on it. (And the heavy emphasis on centerline theory along with it.)
(I'm not a pugilist, but from what I've seen it seems the material from the mid-1800s to the turn of that century is where this resemblance peaked.)
that because propaganda MMA, they need to make traditional martial art look bad
Indeed, I made quite a few sparing with people doing boxing, muay thai or kick boxing and the vertical punches, when you aim the chin and put weight on it have a tendency to pass through in between the gloves. That's super dumb but my glove are 17 cm wide when I punch horizontally and 10 cm wide when I punch vertically, that's enough to go in the gap you have in most boxer guard
@@malakatan3235 It's not propaganda. It's just significantly more effective than any single traditional martial art, because it takes the most effective parts of the most effective martial arts and discards the fluff. It is evolution at work. Also, and this is most important, most real fights between more or less equally matched opponents will eventually end up on the ground and styles like WC and others like it, are worthless for that.
Very good, sensible instructor. Great to see someone like him taking an interest in your content. Showed you just enough to answer your questions about the martial art.
Wow, did not see you bring the form into your martial arts gym. Your partner has no protection and is a good what 15lb lighter than you. That would be our last round together.
Just found you channel and really loving the format and attitude you have.
I'm loving this series . Most martial arts are useful and "work" when trained and understood properly.
I am so fascinated by the current dogma that most martial arts never worked well. Honestly I can't think of a single really traditional art that doesn't work. People can say TKD or aikido, but those are modern.
@@emilianosintarias7337 Very true. I think we need to remember that these techniques were developed for people who had to fight other people, with melee weapons, to the death. As modern people I don't think we can truly comprehend that world. In olden times, they did spar, and mostly with weapons, but wouldn't be able to test everything out in sparring without killing each other. Most "traditional" martial arts are taking traditional techniques, but training them in a different way with a different context.
@@anonperson3972 In a sense it is modern martial arts, like boxing or BJJ that are fake. though that includes traditional martial arts practiced now in modern times, also fake. Not saying this is the way to look at it, but just following the logic of those who think traditional arts are less really effective. The reason martial arts are taught in gyms with street front windows, that accept anyone who will pay, and have no secrets, is because they are completely useless for public security or warfare. A 12 year old in a sports car would destroy any UFC champ on foot. You can call the cops and shut down any martial arts school, Imagine trying to do that in the 13th century
@@anonperson3972 as a TMA myself can I provide a massively cynical take? TMA can likely be broken into two categories: Warfare and Theoretical.
All that's needed for the latter system to be passed on is to survive. This can mean that it beat other systems through a sort of natural selection but it can also just mean they got lucky(survivorship bias.)
Meanwhile certain systems had to be iterated and improved upon for the sake of battle. JJJ for example was a compliment to Kenjutsu. Sparring, winning, etc. with JJJ was as much a part of dueling culture as swordsmanship(and it was expected to carry into the battlefield as a last last resort.) It had been persistently tested and iterated on for a massive period of time (interestingly implying a rejection of a single given tradition.) The end result? It holds up really well.
On the other hand... JJJ was designed to be used as a "compliment for another system", so it shouldn't be surprising that it (and it's derivations) are well suited for mixed-systems.
@@xX-fd2qj I think I see your point and agree. It comes back to context. JJJ is not actually a complete martial art and is now being practiced out of its original context without the other elements that it was traditionally surrounded by. In the case of JJJ, armed combat.
Next step would be, put on MMA gloves and using Chisao for clinch work (stand up grapple). Using Bongsao (guiding) parries to initiate arm locks from striking. Wing Chun is special like that.
Yeah, I also use chi sao during Judo randori. Works best for me 😅👍
@@jplatosa3810 I thought Chi Sau was just a drill. How do you apply it in sparring?
@@kermit1211 the purpose of Chi Sau is to develop sensitivity to an opening to strike and also incoming force in the arms. This development of sensitivity allows one to be able to redirect or perform a trap purely by feel, rather than see, think, react. So, it's kind of a drill but also not really because both people are constantly searching for an opening in their partners "defence" to use that term, which will lead to a strike or to redirect incoming force.
So, you'll see video of people doing chi sau and it looks like they're just rolling and nothing much is happening but there's a lot going on, it's just like a constant state of equilibrium because the force applied by each person is constantly being redirected and neither are presenting an opening and so the cycle goes on until a "mistake" is made and a strike will go through.
It's hard to explain but you're essentially training your arms to strike forward or redirect incoming force "by themselves" without consciously thinking about it.
@@kermit1211 It is just a drill, but every bit of it is a position you might wind up in from somewhere else.
The section of the video that talks about Lop Sao for example, that's a position you hit during a basic roll with double handed chi sao...it's a pretty easy position to end up in with Wing Chun, but you have a bunch of options from there.
The purpose of Chi Sao as a drill is to teach you to feel what that's like and to train reactions from that position. Have you ever done wrestling Pummeling? Chi Sao is literally the same drill just at a longer distance.
Good video. Interesting discussion and enjoy your humor! Doc Randy
As someone that studied wing chun a little in my martial arts search (before finding BJJ/Catch Wrestling/Muay Thai/etc), I have found the most successful and applicable part, for me, are the trapping concepts while striking in the guard (or mount or what have you at that range).
Keep up the good work!! You made me be inspired to start karate!!
Sweeeet
a weird thing i have noticed with wing chun and many chinese traditional martial arts is that, the techniques are genius and they work, but a lot of time only if you have trained MMA/Boxing/Karate or something else, and then you go train kung fu to get the techniques, and you have a high chance of working in sparring/actual fight, and on the other side of this phenomenon, pure wing chun/kung fu practitioners often have a hard time in the ring. I think a problem with kung fu is not the technique but the training method that caused its downfall.
The main problem is not the lack of dedicated students, that are willing to put in the needed work, to become masterful, at what they learn. Chinese Combat arts require 10x more skillsets... compared to other sportized arts. That means, 10x longer... to attain a decent fighting ability. It takes longer to get to be a high level fighter... but IF do put in the work to get there... you will have a level of skill and ability, that FAR outclasses the lower tier arts.
Originally, The ancient Chinese started teaching their children the combat arts, as early as 3 yrs old. These arts started with Flexibility, general simple movements, basic forms, insane strength building, and hardcore Iron-Body conditioning. The striking methods are more Raw-Power based, with Long, Wide, round movements. As they get older... the training shifts to higher level techniques, with tighter circles / movements... that take much greater skill to perform. The programs were designed to take like 20 yrs to fully learn and master. (This included the mastery of like 15 different weapons... not just barehand combat)
Since that was all built on a foundation of a Flexible, fast, conditioned, and Strong body... they have the capability to make these methods work properly, and well.
However... many modern schools today, do not have the beginner level work. There is little to no stretching. No hardcore core workouts. Very few whom do Iron Body conditioning... and not on a very hardcore level. So when you try to add a high level art like Wing Chun... to a person whos not even Fit... whos never taken a punch... well... what can you expect?
Thing is... most school classes are 1hr or less. My former WC schools had 2hr classes. The first hour, was dedicated to a full Hardcore Core workout, that also had a few mild leg stretches in the mix. But this is a rarity... as most WC schools do not train like that. But even so... those 4 classes a week.. were still childs play... compared to the time and work needed to reach Combat level capability. I was training 7 days a week, min of 4hrs a day.. (outside of classes) ... and it took me about 3 yrs to get to a level where the local sport artists could not give me a challenge.
Most people are not willing to put that kind of effort into things. They are content with low level kickboxing methods... because its a fast and easy route, to mildly effective abilities. Since there is less to learn... it takes less time to fully master the material.
So yes... its generally easier for a fighter from a lower level art... whos mastered basic and general martial movements... to be able to pick up a more complex art like Wing Chun... and potentially be superior at it. It only makes logical sense. The problem is.. most of them are closed minded to anything different.. And... again.. many of them are still unwilling to fully invest that much time, and intensity, to reach a Masterclass level of Capability. (rather than sloppy tech.. that fails more than succeeds).
Over the past century you can see a lot of historical amnesia regarding its practitioners. Things like strength training, cardio, conditioning, emphasis on weapons context, pressure testing, and most of all fighting strategy were all absolutely part of Chinese Martial Arts training methods, with forms/drills only being one component of this. A variety of factors, such as the prevalence of the Peking Opera, poor transmission of applications from one generation to the next, the growing popularity of performance based martial arts, and others caused these things to be lost, but they are creeping back in due to a renewed interest in making these fighting arts actually applicable. I do hope that some of them retain their self-defense/feudal context despite today's martial arts scene's focus on combat sports though.
@@unmessable12 The Opera was never the problem. The Chinese govt. banned all arts for over 60yrs in the cultural revolution. They wiped out anyone that posed as a threat to their power. Entire schools were burned to the ground.. and the practitioners were often slaughtered "Just to be safe". They burnt the Shaolin Temple to the ground. Many artists went into hiding. Many ended up in other countries.. such as Taiwan, or well away from China. Others kept training in secret.. trying to keep their arts alive.
When the bans were recently lifted.. the eldest living Shaolin survivor that the CCP could find, was in his 80s, and was unfit to teach.
The CCP immediately created fake performance based arts, like Wushu. And not much longer after that.. sportized Sanda / Sanshou (basic kickboxing).
The losses were not accidental. They are intentional. As the power that control the world.. do not want the general masses to have high level combat abilities. As such, they have infected every art they can... and intentionally corrupted them from the inside out.
@@johndough8115 The CCP's efforts are only one of many factors that led to the decline of Traditional Chinese Martial Arts with combat ability. The creation of performance Wushu wasn't a conspiracy to destroy traditional martial artists, it was merely an appropriation and evolution of the already existing performance tradition with martial arts that came from the Chinese Opera and related performing traditions. Sanda was also not created in an effort to destroy Traditional Chinese Martial Arts, more so a way for China to have a combat sport to rival that of other countries. Yes, the CCP didn't like Traditional Martial Artists running around, but its decline and loss of context as well as historical amnesia isn't something that can only be attributed to its actions. Suppression of martial arts is not something only the CCP did, but several governments before them did the same or similar actions.
@@unmessable12 Imagine trying to Defend the CCP. >_< The Chinese Govt. SLAUGHTERED over 70 million of its own people... via Radicalizing its own CHILDREN from the school systems, starting as young as age 3.
When the war started.. its troops either over-ran the existing martial arts schools.. or PAID certain schools to Eliminate other schools. There is historical Evidence / Records of this FACT.
The Chinese Govt. banned the practice of martial arts, maybe 3 different times in its long +2000 yr history. The cultural revolution, was only the most recent.
Shall we speak about Falun Gong? These guys do a moving meditation exercise, that is similar to Tai Chi. The number of practitioners started to grow exponentially... and the CCP got SCARED. SO... they sent some "CCP SPIES" to see what the group and practice was all about. After some time... the Spies came back to report, that there was nothing shady going on.. and that since their practice in this art.. their mood and health, was elevated. They were happy and excited about it.
What did the CCP do? They didnt believe the spies... so they send in another set of spies. Same results.
Guess what happened next?
They sent an army of their CCP THUGS to break up the practice Anyways. And any whom would defy their orders.. were taken away. It was more recently discovered, via hidden camera footage... that the CCP was using these practitioners for Illegal Organ Harvesting. You see... it turns out, that after some time of doing these exercises.. it causes their internal organs to be renewed. Their 40 yr old bodies, had the Livers of 20yr olds. And so... they imprison them, and then cut them open.. and sell their organs to the highest bidders.
But yeah... Keep Defending the Satanic CCP !!! You Immoral POS.
The fact Is.. that RIGHT AFTER the CCP lifted the Bans.. they got together with some of the remaining combat arts teachers... and created that FAKE art called Wushu. They didnt want to bring back the actual combat art.. despite having the dude that had the combat knowledge. They wanted a De-Fanged, watered down, Useless art... to be created and practiced by its youth. This was done INTENTIONALLY.
The Chinese Opera, had been operating for AGES before that point.. and it NEVER had ANY effect on Combat arts. In fact, many Rebels ended up hiding within its ranks... as you needed to be quite skilled, as well as semi-decently versed in certain forms, and martial practices.
Sanda and Sanshou, were just them copying the Wests bastardization of the combat arts. The CCP also started to copy the wests brainwashing programs... using Xudong as one of their little puppets. Xudong was made to emulate the Psyop that the Gracies did. The Gracies used to post vids of them stating that they were fighting various "MASTERS" of various arts...
Thing is... anyone with even a mild level of combat experience, could EASILY see that NONE of these so called "Masters" were even close to being Competent fighters... let alone Masters! BUT... there are so many Ignorant NPCs in this world.. that actually Believed that the Gracies were defeating top level masters of traditional arts. And that is how they Poisoned countless Thousands of young minds... away from learning traditional combat arts technology. They also have ties to the Mass Media entities... which is how they got the UFC going. The UFC used the same tactics. They invited a bunch of Clueless artists, to get easily defeated, in front of the masses. There were no real combat "Masters", fighting on these shows. In fact, nobody even heard about the UFC, until it was aired.
So, yeah... the Chinese are Not the only Evil rulers. But that said... to try to Defend them, is completely PATHETIC, and Immoral... and REEKS of you being a complete and utter SHILL.
You are a fuckin' smooth presenter of all this martial stuff. Good shit, sir. Subbed. Peace.
So glad this video exists. I’ve been practicing wing chun for years and get tired of hearing “it doesn’t work” yes it does. Take what’s useful to you throw out what isn’t 💯
I trained Wing Chun a long time ago. It was fun, and though I didn't expand on it, the sticky hand blocking and straight vertical fist has come in handy. Implemented right, you can get something out of most martial arts, I guess. Don't get me wrong. I actually liked the philosophy behind it, of balance and correct breathing, and that is probably the one thing that has given me my whole outlook on life.
EXCELLENT comment!
Finally someone shows how wing chun is actually used 😂
I train under a different lineage but most everything he said is pretty true
People need to learn the concepts and how they’re actually applied
i love your videos, every day i learn a lot thanks so much for make this videos
This dude's humility goes a long way. Well done.
Good teacher, very similar to my Sifu's instruction. It was entirely focused on actual fighting, and we *never* kept our hands low for what its worth. "Hands up, guard the centerline" was like day 1 lesson. There is a world of difference between schools that teach the art in almost a historical context where they spend almost all their time with Chi sau or "sticky hands" practice in lieu of sparring or conditioning. Those sorts of schools have an oddly stylistic way of fighting with rigid spine, low hands, and shuffling mechanical chain punches. These guys *cannot fight*, and make up a significant majority of Wing chun students. The folks who train like @Kevin Lee here absolutely can fight.
Really awesome to see this. In my experience a lot of more traditional martial arts have tidbits like the stance training- it’s more of a conditioning exercise that has been slowly misinterpreted into fighting technique. Great video, love all the usable tactics that seemed so easy for Kevin to teach!
One of the best explanations of how to make wing chun work I have seen.
The fact that you pressure tested it is great.
I found similar usefulness of getting off centreline, lap say, tan sau. Never used bong sau that way though.
Also lead and lateral oblique kick is def useful.
It’s almost like the best use of wing chun has been implemented in mma by non wing chun fighters lol
i feel bad for you.
Parrying by flipping the hands makes so much sense if you take into account the leverage effect, great video!
I like that your experience here changed your mind. I'm always impressed by someone who can approach a subject they're skeptical about with an open enough mind to consider things fairly. Even when the end result is still "no, this doesn't work" it's good to test it and confirm that instead of resting on assumptions.
Also, when I studied karate, we were told that you need to *either* engage your first 2 *or* your last 3 knuckles. Most people favoured using the first 2 like you're used to doing, but I always used the 3 knuckles instead and it actually resulted in me landing hits where other people wouldn't. I had several opponents thinking I was somehow speeding up or changing direction mid-punch in ways they couldn't anticipate, but they were actually blocking for angles that weren't the direction I was punching, so my hits were slipping their blocks, or they were stepping into my fist instead of around it. I didn't entirely understand it myself until the sensei demonstrated both methods and told us to watch the opponent's elbow movement more than the fist.
I Love how you branch off into other martial arts especially ones you never particularly liked. Easily you have become my favorite martial arts youtuber
Very interesting. Respect!
THanks bro.
Loved the video!! Glad you got a change of heart!
Bruce Lee pretty much did what Kevin told you at the end of the video. He broke down wing Chun and took all the useful things and created his own forms.
Kevin Lee! My favourite wc guy, absolutely awesome, his sifu is one of the most impressive martial artists I've ever seen
I love how he's talking about how you can interpret and adapt it all these different ways and what's his preference because it is such an adaptive style
@@me82sjm yeah true that
Still one of my favorite videos on yt
Great video! Funny, engaging, and informative!
I’ve been pondering getting back into MA, and checking out what’s out there (I come from Kajukenbo), and Wing Chun has been pretty high on my list.
Here’s a sub!
Cheers!
I really liked this video, Seth. Branching out like that, being open. The karate portion of youtube dudes is really becoming something. Jesse interviewed Ole boy Stephen Seagull. Y'all are doing it man, keep it up!
The issue with some of these martial arts is not that they're necessarily useless or ineffective, but it's the way they're taught. Wing Chun is rarely pressure tested by its practitioners, and we all know how important sparring is to perfect a technique and figure out what does and doesn't work. Seth is able to make these techniques work because he has years and years of experience sparring against resisting opponents, and already has a "feel" for how to apply the techniques under live pressure. Seth would smoke the vast majority of Wing Chun guys in a "Wing Chun only" match because of this, despite only learning it for 1 day. If Wing Chun was trained with live sparring more commonly to filter out all of the bullshido and to find what really works, it might actually be a legitimate base for fighting, although most arts that do this end up looking suspiciously like kickboxing...
@@Inkal321 I literally said “rarely”. I’m not talking about every school, or every practitioner, i’m talking about the AVERAGE. If you really think that the average wing chun guy spars anywhere near as much or as intensely as the average boxer or kick-boxer you must live under a rock. What are YOU talking about? If you actually read my comment you’d realise that i’m making a case for your martial art, despite it being the laughing stock of the combat sports community, I see some merit in the style.
Good video. Another thing that needs to be kept in mind is the context in which it is to be used.
There are what I call dueling styles and self defense styles. Dueling styles are most styles currently popular. You start off at a fairly long range and then bridge the gap. Self defense styles are useful in real world situations where someone is trying to get in your face or is already in your face and you're trying to avoid the confrontation. People in real life don't generally agree to dueling when real fights happen.
I'm practicing silat, and I also use the kind of punch Wing Chun uses. I like this type of punch because it's more straightforward in terms of how you channel your energy into it, whereas with the horizontal punch, it depends on how you position your hands when idle (you may have to spend energy twisting your hand), and nobody uses an idle stance with their palms facing down (except Muay Thai & its brethren, I think).
Great video, and guy really knows how to pick out some basics that'll be practical. Also was impressed with the trained reactions of the teacher. What sucks to some extent is that 2 weeks without training will cause a decrease in reaction and coordination.
this is the happiest video of yours i’ve seen (and i’m definitely a FAN)! but i feel so grateful to see Wing Tsun (Chun) represented on the internet in a way that demonstrates that it actually does have value! thank you both!
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Great video, you were a very good student, picked up the concepts fast, and condensed the essentials of wing chun down for this video really well!
We used to train to punch using a wall bag filled with rocks (starting with gravel, gradually getting bigger and bigger rocks; I started as a teenager so my sifu filled it with dried beans* for me until the bones in my knuckles had properly fused), so it is hilarious to me that you try the punch out on a cantalope or 'rock melon' XD
* still really really hurt if you chain-punched the bag and didn't hit square on so you scraped your knuckles, I remember coming home from training with blistered hands XC My sifu joked that wing chun uses the lower knuckles so you don't risk breaking the top ones and can still use chopsticks with those fingers, you'll have sore hands but won't starve!
Glad you did this video, because I use the chung choi (vertical chain punching) in my karate sparring all the time. The low elbow can be used to block the opponent's strikes.
I did wing chun for a few years, and learnt so much from this short video
Daaaamn. I see what you guys did in the "defence" section, and there are things (using hands to drag punches down, steering knuckles towards your elbow, using your arm to isolate and "guide away" opponent's striking arm while you attack yourself) exactly like those one of my instructors taught me... during our lessons mostly dedicated to learning stuff he claimed to mostly come from pugilism and silat sera.
"Punch is a punch" indeed.
Kevin’s energy is really cool.
That was a well done video, good concept and I like the "In theory and practice" approach you applied to the question of will it work? Nice scientific experiment in a basic way of doing it for lesser knowledgeable people...thumbs up
Your videos are so entertaining and educational at the same time! Keep it up!!
Loved seeing this b/c there are useful aspects to ANY martial art. My favorite aspect of Wing Chun is the trapping/interception but I really liked his demo of using the elbow as a simultaneous block/attack~
This was a dope video. Even though It was Wing Chun focused... I like the side kicks during sparring.
Overall very impressed and best example of usage yet 👍
I have found some arts have useless to very effective moves, and if mastered, they can be added to your martial art. Love how you explore these fighting styles and see what works!
AWESOME vid and outstanding to see you willing to do this, both of you.
Watch how to full side split in 2 weeks
ruclips.net/video/MFvghYQ3pAU/видео.html
these might be the best videos ever
well done. you were still operating in a block then strike mode... that makes it hard to deploy the techniques. you did great for one day of technique, it takes a long time to get into the mindset . you had a great teacher too.
You got a sub from me. I like that you didn't just tear the technique down and say "this is garbage" like most channels (I saw your systema video too - very interesting). Instead you look at is, train and figure out what is beneficial within the art. Good stuff and we need more productive and constructive criticisms like this. Thumbs up from me!
Dude, this is the first video i'm watching of you, and i can see you have trained a lot in kickboxing, it's amazing how much you can actually adapt to this style and make it kinda work. What I was missing was maybe footage of people that have done this for years and see how they apply it to sparring. Anyway, nice video, cheers.
I think this is a great video. Wing Chun has some excellent techniques that you could teach someone in a day and they'd be able to apply them effectively right away in a sparring match. Pak Da for parries and Bong Sau for redirect are great fundamentals to learn. Lop Sau I think is a little too fancy to be practical, and almost impossible to pull off correctly with gloves on, but still cool.
Great videos!
Thanks Sensai Seth for doing this video. Kevin really puts in perspective the reason WC gets so much negative reaction. Even my Sifu said the same thing, you have to utilize it in a way that makes it useful. You have to be able to learn other martial arts and combine everything you've learned to combat multiple scenarios or other fighting styles. No one style can make you dominant.
It can work perfectly as an element implemented in boxing, MT or MMA. Not as a standalone art. I use it all the time this way.
3:15 GOOD JOB on those punches SETH. 💥🥊💯
very good stuff here I am a Jowga Student and i love this video