Chris, were you talking about When Men Behave Badly by David Buss? Wanting to be sure. Thank you for this. Im melting down right now and this is a great dose of reality and hope!
If we saw vulnerability as only an act of strength then men who need to be able to have accountability can. Otherwise, the man is not really expressing vulnerability but "neediness" or immaturity. Which again, thats fine in as much as maturing is concerned. Not the same thing though.
When I met my (then) future-wife, I was doing well. My business was taking off, my weight lifting was paying off, and I had just bought a house. I was 'a catch' in the Darwinian sense. We were 'happy'. When we were cohabitating (soon to be married), I got hit with an intestinal virus. I remember being doubled over in excruciating pain - tears pouring down my face. It was more than I could bear. While this was happening, I looked at her and could see her respect for me draining away. It was palpable. It bordered on disgust - that her strong man was showing weakness. I'll never forget that. That should have been a 'red flag' - but I missed it. The upside is that we're divorced now - and I am happy.
My ex wife did the same. I got sick and she would get angry with me. If I broke down because of her constant psychological torture she would just look at me with disgust. I can't believe I actually loved her.
I know this happens but I just don't comprehend it. The only times I've lost respect for a man or a woman being vulnerable was if they did it to themselves and were trying to get me to feel sorry for them. My husband has cried due to a death in the family, an abscessed tooth, etc., I never thought anything negative about it, only was concerned for him. There are a lot of shitty women out there, :/.
Wow you can have a business, a house and be lifting and she'd still leave you 😂 Don't mean to sound like an incel. But what's the point. What actually is the point.
Yeah but that doesn't apply in the context of this video. It's the smartest men who learned from their fathers who are in majority not engaging. The real debate is about getting men involved and we simply have zero incentive anymore. And by zero incentive I mean historic levels of liability just so the top 23% can benefit while we get none. We simply don't want to be used for nothing in return.
You mean those of us who are lucky enough to have fathers that didn't let us down need to go and open up, in turn letting them down? Hopefully the next generation gets the memo and just stops this stupid humankind experiment already
I’m a 62-year-old gay female. Over the course of my life I’ve had dozens of straight male friends who’ve said things like “You’re the first female friend I’ve ever had who I could really talk to about my feelings without being judged or made to feel bad about them.” It breaks my heart. My message to straight women: Stop torturing men. If he trusts you enough to tell you the truth, have enough spine to hear him. Men aren’t machines. They are people. Don’t use someone’s feelings against them - male or female - this is a form of manipulation, in an attempt to have ‘power over’ the other person. Real friends don’t need to do this. Grow yourself up. ✨💖✨
My female co-worker who works in the same department is gay and shes often like my buddy who I can be real open about vulnerable stuff like fighting cancer, my dads dementia upsetting me and being a recovering addict. I can talk to her about anything and theres no judgement whatsoever and its quite refreshing. If I talk about this stuff with a potential dating partner its just labelled "red flags" or an ick despite me being sober for years, very responsible and financially secure. Sometimes we just gotta get stuff off our chest too and talking it out with someone you care about can help tremendously.
The number of times I have had deep emotional vulnerability turned against me has been countless. I would much rather never speak than to have my words weaponized.
My dad left home after divorce, slowly everything started breaking. One of my friends made a joke how our doorbell wasn’t working. I told mom and all she said was “I suppose you have to fix it yourself if it bothers you”. I was 14 and slowly stopped inviting friends Small edit: after 2 years of therapy I started speaking with mom again, I worked up my courage to confront her about the time she would pinch and push me, only for her to say ‘that never happened’ in front of the therapist I saw the look in my face in the mirror, the same as my dads. Haven’t talked with mom in the past six years
You shouldn't have done it in front of the therapist. It's not likely a woman would ever take account for actions like that (but they all do it.. they have no physical filter), but if you had any chance, it would have been with just the two of you.
Yes! Also empathic support statement from me, too! @mycoachdave had the right idea here. My emotions closely follow my mind in terms of strength and impact, but they DO follow it. MY thoughtful commentary always jumps out before my empathic support. It's a problem, fr. Sorry about that.
Keep it up. I went back to my insane abusive mother to forgive her after 16 years of silence and it took her 2 weeks to throw that same insane violent energy at me. She's in her 60's now and I'm done.
I feel for you. I was abused by a close cousin when I was a kid. People tell me I should confront my mother when she specks highly of him, which used to be all the time. I see absolutely no point to this. She would totally respond like your mother did, by not believing me and dicounting the whole thing. She was abusive herself (pinching, pushing, degrading me on why I can't be like my cousins). I just get disgusted by the whole thing but sometimes it's best to just move on and be a better man by learning from your experience.
Women can say they want men to be more vulnerable and "in touch with their emotions" until they're blue in the face. It's not going to outweigh the amount of men who I hear say it's never worked out for them. And I'm honestly done talking about it. If you have to cry, do it alone or with your male best friends.
I think the problem is that the only "men" women see are the high status and contextually influential males. They have earned her respect and so she gives them permission to share. Men who cannot earn women's attention or respect, are honestly invisible and never considered when women talk about men.
I believe women do genuinely believe they want their guy to show his weaknesses as a sign of trust. But, like many things, theory does not work well in practice. It's social desirability bias. They think it's the right thing to say.
We went to couples counseling (worthless by that point). I opened up in front of my significant other and the female psychologist. I watched them make eye contact with each other and smirk like I was pathetic. NEVER open up to a woman. EVER. They interpret it all as weakness.
My wife is a therapist, and it sounds like the therapist was just bad. Opening up to my wife is the best part of my day sometimes, takes away the stress, worry and she makes me feel better. You’ll find someone who actually cares. And don’t stop going to therapy, it’s not a silver bullet but it can be id you work at it.
The real problem is that any man would feel the need to show women emotion in a reciprocal fashion. Why would you need validation from an inferior? If your character doesn't mirror this in a benevolent manner you're lost.
Man this is some 100% bullshit talk. There's a difference between crying because you're weak and can't overcome basic life hurdles and just expressing emotion. Most women know the difference. A lot of men talk about a woman who cries a lot as unstable or "too emotional" or crazy. We do it to them, too. Crying or showing emotion isn't showing weakness. If you cry about a problem and give up, that's weakness. If you cry about a problem then overcome it, that's strength. Women 100% see the difference. I don't cry often, but I've certainly cried in front of my wife. The guys in this comment section who are saying the stuff you are saying really don't seem like they have much emotional intelligence. It's really not that hard to figure out.
@paolointhenight I see where you're coming from, but you're forgetting about bad experiences. Let's say you let your girlfriend know about a traumatic experience in your childhood and she either laughed in your face or used it against you in an argument isn't possible for him to paint all women like that ?
Every single woman I've ever opened up to has weaponized my vulnerability and turned it against me intentionally to hurt me. Including my mother, both of my sisters, and women I've dated. I will not be sharing how I feel with anyone anymore.
@@JaZmine147 You took the "convenient" path of victim blaming to absolve the women. Another explanation is that he was the family scapegoat. And yes, people tend to seek the drama they suffered during childhood in their future relationships because it is familiar to them emotionally and they cannot even process being treated differently. It happens with abused girls too. I wonder if you would say that to them too.
@JaZmine147 I don't think you understand what "statistically impossible" means. He's only talking about 3 family members plus a cohort of dating partners. You have no idea what his age is or how many women he's even talking about. How could it be necessarily "impossible"? At what no of women does it cross the impossible threshold?
You have no idea how much I appreciate you talking openly about this. As a female, I will never know the struggles of men but I have watched the outcome of it and it is heartbreaking to say the very least. Dan Griffin talks about the Man Rules and I took his course on Men and Trauma. 10/10 recommend. Men deserve a safe place in society to discuss these topics. How can we ask our men to be vulnerable, open, and connect to us and yet, condemn them for doing so?!
I don’t even believe that “talking” about it is necessarily the first step. It should be value and appreciation first. Just a base level of understanding and empathy and men will fight these battles, on their own. Willingly, without resent as long as society and women can stop condemning them.
@ I hear you. I can only speak to my experience. When I change, awareness is always the first step. I can do absolutely nothing about something I refuse to look at. So the more awareness that is brought to a topic, the more likely I personally am, to value or appreciate it.
You don't have to show vulnerability for many women to get the ick, you just have to show emotions that do not "befit" a man, i.e. other than confidence, contentment (not too much of it to cross over to happiness) and anger. Even stopping to pet a stray cat or lamenting seeing a homeless person will give many women the ick.
Re: that last sentence-good lord. Sounds like a good filter to actively use to rid yourself of what I assume must be truly awful human beings, if they even deserve that term.
Patrice O'Neal said it best, women do not want to really know, best comedian to ever talk about men/women dynamics. Both the man and the woman has to be on the same level of emotional and intellectual maturity.
I opened up to a Girl on a date because she talked about her Father quite a bit and how much she looked up to him. My Dad died when I was 25, I tried my best in my early 20's to heal the wounds from my teen years with him and we had a good relationship. When I mentioned this to the Girl, I felt it was a huge turn off for her and she withdrew a bit from me. Emotional vulnerability for men is still viewed negatively, even subconsciously. So don't open up to those you hold close, because it will backfire and you will end up alone.
Don't open up + hold close are complete opposite things. The comments on this video completely confuse me. Why are you building a relationship with someone who doesn't care about you at all? What's the point? Are you just using them as a baby making factory with a superficial relationship plastered on top?
It very tempting to close up and swallow that sorrow, rendering yourself as lonely and miserable. Yet it's not the path for happiness, my friend. Those feelings would stay and destroy you from within. At least in my personal experience. Isnt the ultimate goal is happiness? If then, i would advise to continue seeking admiration, even when you feel like you much better shut up about your feeling forever.
Not a universal experience, that's for sure. I actually have an anecdote of the opposite: in my 20s it actually helped me get a girl to open up about my grandfather, who had passed away. Years later (when we were still together) she told me that telling her about that, in a heartfelt and vulnerable position, actually made her feel closer to me, because I was being genuine about something difficult. Some girls are tired of being surrounded by superficial jerks. There are good ways to be vulnerable and honest imo, to create real connections.
What I wanted was a partner to share a lifetime of adventures; what I got was a stranger who'd married me for my earning potential. Sometimes even being a 'good guy' isn't enough - go figure.
Don't marry, it's outdated, especially when it's so one-sided. Marriage helped men who weren't as attractive or as capable; it was a contract that was given to w_m/n as a "don't worry, if he doesn't measure up you can split keep a certain %" and reciprocity between each other was implied. If you are a guy who can be attractive and has resources why would you give up your leverage? Especially when it's basically almost ALL your leverage? Everyone talks about grape, which is OBVIOUSLY wrong, but no one talks about financial and reputational grapes which can f' men for LIFE.
@@gsp4prez lol *edit: I feel like I need to explain the lol. Your n=1 is not more powerful than the massive divorce statistics. Also you are at year 11. Also picking "better" and "being better" is not a guarantee down the road. It also doesn't absolve a bad decision, it only reduces its probability of back//f-ring. (Having said all of that I do wish you well and I hope you continue to have a very successful and happy marriage)
I've been in 3 serious long term relationships, fathered children and raised them to be good adult people and actually protected them from their mother who became a drug addict. Never hit or abused a female in my life. Yet all I hear about men is we are DV abusers, monsters and basically women telling men how to be men (imagine men telling women how to be a woman). I've raised my sons to never apologize for being male, be strong, confident, respect those who deserve it and protect those you love. Thankfully, they have turned out to be just that.
Respect, sir. Similar situation with me. Raised my son - because his mother was an addict. He's well-adjusted, works hard, and is a good person. He respects women, but will not be disrespected by them.
I’ve been teased and mocked by women I’ve dated for not feeling emotional or expressing vulnerabilities. Conversely, I’ve been treated like a pariah or wussy or both the moment I let something significant out. I suppose the lesson is it’s better to be baited than to take the bait…
Lmao, some women co-workers will get on me for being quiet and keeping to myself. They’re like a bunch of construction workers (ironic) “I don’t see a ring on that finger, do tell”, I don’t and they immediately come with the gay jokes. They’re literally toxic men in a middle age Karen body.
My friends, it's easy: complain/open up/be vulnerable with your friends, father, brother, cousin, boss, colleague, but NEVER with your partner... It's really that simple. Then, you'll live with her admiration intact in this particular area.
That’s because some high status males show vulnerability to help elevate their status. Like a humble brag - I’m so high status and confident that I am comfortable enough to talk about this vulnerable thing.
The comments section here is so vast and nuanced, I really appreciate (ironically) the way men are sharing their stories here and being vulnerable. It's both inspiring, and heartbreaking, thank you guys.🙏🏿
When women say they want men to talk about their feelings they ONLY mean ONE THING: They want the stoic, masculine man in their life to tell them how much he loves them. That's it. NO OTHER FEELINGS ARE REQUESTED. If you take that as a cue to talk about your fear of failure or spiders, you are making a HUGE MISTAKE. That is NOT the kind of feelings she is asking for. She may be kind and supportive at first, but on the backside you will lose massive amounts of attraction.
I truly believe that you can live in the mindset where you can show your vulnerabilitys to your Partner and get Full 100% repect from her at the Same time. When a Women is seing your vunrable parts and when she is seing every side of You and then decides not to be with you, how should she be a Person you can spend your whole life with. Why should we Even be sad about auch a loss. In my opinon, this is Not a loss at all. When you live in that mindset Everyone will recognize this as a strength. When someone is seing you how you really are(with all your vulnerabilitys) and the decides to be with you and to love that. You exactly know that this is the Right Person.
I grew up believing that women wanted men who could talk about their emotions. Experience taught me differently. Women want strength. Here's the reality of the situation. If a man is emotional about a situation that a woman believes is not worth being upset about, she sees it as a weakness and looks down on him. If he's emotional about some situation she believes is worth being emotional about, she may be more accepting of it. But how do men know which situations women find worthy of a man showing emotion? They don't. That's why they need to keep it locked down tight. If something is bothering a man and he just has to get it out, he should talk to another man about it. Women will swear they want a man to be able to share their feelings, and they may really believe it. It doesn't matter how many times they say it, it's not true. Maybe it's biologically programmed, and they aren't even aware it will disgust them until it happens. But then it's too late. I wish this wasn't true, but I have absolutely no doubt it is.
You should visit their online communities. Lots of them loathe the idea of being the therapist of the relationship. It is funny, because at the same time you might find a woman says the previous statement while saying she also wants an emotionally available man.
Yeah, I went to the hospital once. She was just pissed to be there when we didn’t know what was happening. Never will forget that. Also, I once told her I think men are struggling in today’s world. I listed some stats about 3/4 homeless, lower graduation rates, etc. she said it sounded like “woe is me”. Never will forget that either.
Yup, I mean that's pretty much the thing you get on the media, too. Here in Germany they paid once again for a video about boys failing at school, and it was pretty much framed as boys are dumb and lazy and "have feelings they can't articulate". The same old abusive stuff.
Exactly right you must prove your strength and capacity to lead and overcome, the vulnerable moments must always come with the edge to keep going. Women understand we are human and will have falls but they need to see that we have the strength to get up and keep going. This is one of the pillars of manhood "embracing the suck" for we must shelter the family through the storm, have the skill set to recover and tackle the next day because the world keeps spinning. STAY HARD!
At this point I’ve just accepted that I can’t be vulnerable, I love my girl but I don’t think she needs to be hearing all that . I wouldn’t apply this way of thinking to every man but for me i just feel like I should just keep it to myself and cowboy up . Life don’t get easier I just need to get stronger
I used to work with men as a therapist. I’m a man too. You can’t hold it all in without massive issues with blood pressure, heart attacks and stroke. It’s a big deal. Find an outlet.
I felt free to tell my girl stuff until one day she asked me “Do you regret opening up to me?” I didn’t, nothing happened yet. It was foreshadowing. I certainly ended up regretting it.
That's messed up that's crazy to me. How the hell can a Mother who has sons use her son's vulnerability against him when he's hurting wtf?! A lot of women shouldn't have kids.
I like the idea of writing it out. Get it straight in your head, devise a plan, and come back to the journal for reevaluation. 👍 Whatever you do, don’t blurt it all out!
Once we show weaknesses things get even worse. Were not built to be weak and to clarify it does it mean being a jerk or acting like you're a badass. It's when things get bad you keep your shit together and don't show weakness keep your head up and keep pushing forward.
I've been married for almost 20 years. I can show my wife my deepest vulnerability and she will support me in that moment and I know I'm safe. Because of that I can be the strongest man I can be for her 99% of the rest of the time and provide for her and protect her gladly. Tragic reading the comments on here. To all the men reading this; If you can't show your vulnerable side to your partners, ditch them now and wait for a strong woman who can be there for you when you need them to be, which will make you want to support them. There are decent women out there. Be patient and don't accept any selfish ones that need to grow up.
Yeah, my wife also actually respects my softer side, and much prefers the side of me that wants to talk about things. And not the side that gets angry and moody because I'm not expressing myself.
I have four sons all young adults. At a recent get together with all their partners this subject came up with girlfriends all stating how they should share their feelings/ vulnerabilities. I shocked their partners when I said never do that. I told them if they were having problems come to me their father. What would be discussed would go no further and a solution would be found. More importantly their vulnerability would never be weaponized against them in some future argument. Sorry ladies but when you choose violence this is the violence you choose. My job is still to protect no matter how old they are .
You must think you’re god or something that you can fix your adult son’s problems. What if they are marital problems? What business is that of yours? What if it’s a personal problem their wife is having? Are they bringing these intimate details to you? And what kind or violence are the women bringing? If a solution is that easy to find then your sons need to grow up. True interpersonal problems don’t have quick solutions.
I call it "emotional violence", mainly use of a weakness shared or an incident where weakness was shown instead of strength then used against the person's partner in order to win a fight, argument or show dominance in a particular space and sometimes in a social gathering where others experience the evil of a "false partner". Stay focused, on your new path and strength through adversity. I'm not just a Uniform
Thank you OP for sharing this. I will remember it. You validated externally something I have experienced in my own life, because my father did this for me, in a completely non-judgmental and supportive way throughout my early adulthood. I one day told him that he is my confidant, and I really appreciated him for just holding the space for me. I am only now beginning to realise what a huge impact it has had on me and reading your comment made me realise that this is something I will be doing with my own sons when they become adults. Edit: the reason I initially felt moved to comment was because of what you said about protecting. I have had the privilege of being a strong protector to my family in times of need, and I absolutely resonated with what you said. Tapping into that protective instinct in spite of what others may feel or think in the moment has always carried me through, and because of that, I recognise that your comments at the gathering were a response to that very same instinct and I am sure your sons will benefit from your wisdom and masculinity. Thank you again for sharing this story.
@kc6810 That was mostly irrelevant to the op's point. Read him again, he talks about sharing vulnerabilities and pains and such. Not interpersonal affairs but personal feelings. And that's the emphasis the op puts: keeping the lady away from your vulnerabilities while consulting with an older man to put an end to the trouble. The latter is questionable, yes. In my 27 years no older man ever could help me with his "wisdom" when I actually asked for one. I had to learn the worst by myself and by my friends' lives. Especially the lesson that a man better not uncover his vulnerabilities to his lady or his mom. And that having no senior figure to even try to calibrate with when lost is a crushing misery. Which is why even if the op can't solve a thing for his sons, the very fact that he offers himself that way is already a privilege.
I've found in the last couple of relationships I've been in, I've tried to allow myself to be vulnerable because I felt it's the adult thing to do. It never worked in my favour
life is about strenght and power. the west tried to make the world shift in a different direction, of equality, but human nature doesn't change. not fundamentally. you can't change million years of programming by following a class or by protesting outside. woman are what they are, they should try to be better, and men are what they are, and they should try to be better.
*"The government passed more laws to protect women from dirty jokes than to protect men from death by faulty rafters at a construction site."* ~ Warren Farrell
Remember guys, society only values you for your productivity. Check off a lot of boxes of successes and society values you. Fail, or be in need, and society will kick you to the curb and not give you a second thought. Be of value and some might listen to you.
Yet the ruling class behind the scenes have set up society to waste goods and productivity to keep the masses busy and create false scarcity while stifling competition.
"Fail, or be in need, and society will kick you to the curb and not give it a second thought." I'm right in the middle of this right now after more than a decade of "success" and it's horrible. Work, money, health - I've got nothing left and nobody cares.
Yeah@@thisisfyne. It's a harsh reality, and many guys don't know this until it smacks them in the face. Hopefully, given some time, effort, and health healing, you can get back to a level where you can be self sustaining again, if not prosper.
As the creators of future humans, women are built to optimise that process. That means finding a guy who will protect and provide. She needs him to care about her, so he does all that. And love her, so he sticks around long enough for the kids to be raised. But does she need to care about him? Does she need to love him? Bring these relationship issues back to fundamental biological imperatives... and you will find clarity.
As a man, you need to make yourself perfectly clear that you are in charge. No ifs or buts. You need to be a bit scary sometimes. You need to be unapproachable on occassions. You need to stay unfathomable. Mysterious almost... Don't listen to 'women talk'. Don't involve yourself with any of her friends. Keep her away from your friends within social environments. Reason? Well, shell try to control those aspects of your life. Drive wedges and barriers between you and your friends. Create emotional arguments that surround her friends or family. Make it clear from day one that you're not interested in her family or friends. You'll be polite and cordial, but that's it. Your focus is on her and your own children. You tell her that things will be paid for and looked after. You tell her we won't ever get married or joint own the house. The power stays with me....
How about screening the woman from the start? Purposely show your vulnerability to her and if she doesn't react well, ditch her and move on. Works for me.
If you find a girl that truly loves you she will be sympathetic, but there is always a limit. This is evolutionary and can never nor should ever be completely reversed. It's the way we select the strongest and weed out weakness.
@@EtoCobra Yeah there isn't another way other than being upfront. I learnt that when doing a deal, you need to put what is non-negotiable upfront. Also too many men sacrifice their own needs just to be in a relationship. If your needs are not met, there is no point in 'finding' someone.
I must be in some parallel dimension bc never in my life has showing emotional vulnerability caused me any harm or detriment. My only issue with women is showing how much I care about them and it not being reciprocated with each prospect I’ve invested effort in. Some have done it right, others are dogshit at being a mature adult about their own feelings.
It's because they expect you to go above and beyond to show how much you care about them. This eventually backfires in most relationships, assuming the man has a backbone.
Part of the sad legacy of divorce is that in previous generations, young women struggling in their marriage could turn to a group of older married women for advice to work on themselves or to do/think about things differently. Now, without that wise counsel - the first instinct is to just chuck it all. Any older female mentors are all likely to be aging city girls or divorced single mums so they all harp on that instinct and tell women struggling in a relationship that she should just move on... The male version of this is the fatherless crisis. Men get in the most trouble in life when they are forced to rely on female counsel. Steel sharpens steel and without fathers/father-figures, most men are left soft and floundering.
being "in touch" with emotions and constantly sharing them are two different things. the reality is we have to be "in touch" with them so we know how to stay in control of ourselves to not be perceived as weak. we need to be "in touch" with them so we can stand strongly alone and deal with them/handle the situation. see this as a positive or negative or however you want. support is great, but never share too much. it will destroy you even more.
I have gradually changed my ideas about being vulnerable . I used to hate that feeling in myself and try to overcome it by distracting myself by DOING something like having a hard gym session. Now I try to really get into the feeling and experience it , allowing myself to cry as much as I want to , and I believe that this processes the feeling ( eg a rejection ) and allows me to overcome it. But I do NOT do this crying in front of a woman , and ESPECIALLY not in front of a woman I want to be attracted to me.
I was in a serious relationship with a girl who claimed to be non judgemental. When I opened up to her about my emotions she weaponized it and used it against me. It really hurt, im more careful who im vulnerable with nowadays.
My wife and I have been married for nine years and honestly every year gets better. We just had our first baby (a son) 14 months ago. We were both older when we met and had been through a lot of shitty relationships before. So I think we were ready to treat each other with respect and open up to each other. We have also been to counseling when needed. Refusing to be vulnerable is not a solution for anything.
My friend I sincerely hope your relationship thrives. Truly. Regarding being vulnerable towards her, I'm just here to tell you, don't test your luck. Time has a way of showing itself.
Exactly. I’m vulnerable to my wife…I’m also the leader of my household and at work. There are times I have to be tough and there are times I have to communicate and talk to my wife about any issue I have. THIS works for me…one size doesn’t fit all. You have to know the woman you’re marrying. We’re sharing a bed, body fluids etc etc…I’ll have to know the woman I’m with and visa versa.
My friends, it's easy: complain/open up/be vulnerable with your friends, father, brother, cousin, boss, colleague, but NEVER with your partner... It's really that simple. Then, you'll live with her admiration intact in this particular area.
Here’s the problem: I can keep stuff bottled up, because *man*. However, I find that not expressing negative emotions (dissatisfaction, anger, frustration) leaves the door open for people to WALK ALL OVER YOU and/or take advantage of your reluctance to respond in accordance with any offense/disrespect/disappointing thing. Damned if you do, screwed over if you don’t.
That's a lack of assertiveness, not alack of vulnerability. You have to practice saying no, practice telling the truth, and practice being your authentic self, and/or raise your T levels. It's not easy.
My friends, it's easy: complain/open up/be vulnerable with your friends, father, brother, cousin, boss, colleague, but NEVER with your partner... It's really that simple. Then, you'll live with her admiration intact in this particular area.
I just have to share this story because I feel this truly applies to me. My last ex got divorced from a man who cheated on her, was psychologically manipulative, mean, and financially controlling. I dated her and was perfect the entire time. I supported her and gave her space when she needed it. We got along, never fought, had a lot of fun. I communicated my emotions well, got her flowers when she had a hard week, I was understanding when she got sick before a big wedding I was in and had to go to go alone to. I left the wedding early so I could go take care of her. I brought her to plays she liked. I surprised her with a fall train ride in the mountains, and made her breakfast every morning, and helped take care of her dog. The list goes on and on. I did everything right, no regrets at all, and she broke up with me. Why? "She didn't know." That was legit the answer I got. I'm sure she's going to go find another asshole and feel sad when they treat her like shit, but if she wants to throw away someone like me who was trying as hard as I could to support her, go for it. I don't care. It makes me want to stop trying though, because dating feels impossible these days. I can't keep putting all this effort into a bottomless pit void of emotions that I keep dealing with in dating.
Thanks all for sharing your stories. As someone looking to start dating again after 5 years, your comments are great (Men and Women). Chris allows all of us to become deeper thinkers so, thank you Chris. The overwhelming consensus here seems to be that we should never be vulnerable with our girlfriends/wives. If I'm honest that's been my experience in life be it, talking to my male friends/family or in my romantic relationships. Given that most of us will only gain a certain amount of 'man points' through the gym, earning more money etc...how do we approach being vulnerable? Should we be vulnerable? Should men only be vulnerable with each other?
I watched the video and read some of the comments. A few days ago I learned that a close relative in an argument with his ex-wife, she assaulted him and broke a bottle on his head (he could have been killed). If it wasn't for a witness at the incident he would be in jail right now. She denounced him for assault. I've been a witness of this marriage, and I've notice her red flags (except that she could be violent) my relative wasn't able to detect. As I'm paying more attention, and distrusting all advertising against patriarchy, I'm concluding that women's and girls' mental health have deteriorated in general. I don't expect anything from women, and much less when showing them vulnerability. When they claim that sensitivity, make sure it's true. I can ascertain that any sensitivity from women is a form of sociopathy and covert narcissism. It's pure BS.
After reading a lot of comments here my only thought is that a lot of men here married way too soon. Like WAY too soon. I've been with my now-wife for 13 years before I proposed. And even then I got a prenup. Please understand that at this point you have to vet your partner extensively and over a significant amount of time. Don't marry someone before you have been through hell with them. Don't marry someone you haven't hit the highest highs with. Don't marry someone you haven't seen at their worst and who hasn't seen you at your worst and weakest. Don't marry someone you haven't been in a rut with for a while. Don't marry someone you haven't fully opened up to and who hasn't fully opened up to you. Don't marry someone you haven't reached the point of fully open and honest communication with. A good marriage is built on the ashes of you failures with the brick and mortar of you successes. If someone pressures you into marriage before you hit those cruicial milestones then don't give in. The risk outweighs the benefits by lightyears. You have to make sure that you work well together. Both from your and their side. And both for your and their sake.
The lesson is that if a woman (or man) uses your vulnerability against you, you should not stop showing it, but instead it's not the right woman. Unfortunately there are a lot of "not right" women around (especially on the dating market, guess why they're single) so it becomes a long game of trial and error, if you were not lucky early in life to find a good woman.
over 10 years ago my sister got leukemia, everyone in my family took it very heavy but we were going to power through this. Also during that time I wasn't enjoying school, my grades dropped and I had to retake an entire year. The few friends I had passed and weren't in my class anymore. They all did internships so I wouldn't see them at school anymore. So I sat alone during lunch breaks. I really didn't want to go to school anymore but my parents were trying their absolute hardest to provide and care for my sister who ofcourse needed it most. My problems, seemed to small compared to hers, so why bother my parents with mine. I got depressed, but didn't want to burden my parents with my seemingly small problem. Couldn't bring myself to go to school anymore. I'd leave for school to give my parents the illusion I was fine but I'd cycle to a park bench somewhere sit for hours till my parents left the house for work or to go to the hospital to my sister. Then I'd go home and cry myself to sleep. Now 9 years later I'm feeling amazing, my sister beat leukemia, I had changed college and got my degree. I'm more social then ever. Got a job I like, friends I go out with and i'm super happy. So then I meet this girl and we get to dating, start a relationship and its my first ever relationship. But now I find myself finding it hard to say "I love you" when she so easily says it to me. I find myself unable to miss her when we are apart, even though she misses me. She's the sweetest, nicest girl, but I just can't. So I break up with her because I feel like she'd give up herself to please me, and I feel so guilty for not being able to have that emotional connection she seems to have with me. So now i'm in familiar territory, I'm alone again, and I'm doing great. Cuz I have this superpower, where I don't mind being alone. Until someone tells me I'm a so called 'glass child' (google it if you have similar experience) and everything kinda clicks into place. That I learned to deal with the toughest of times by self isolating myself and that "superpower" I have of easily dealing with emotional pain and being alone comes from trauma and has disfigured me into someone who is completely unavailable on an emotional level and it now affects my relationships. Moral of the story, no matter how small and insignificant your problems might seem, please, please, do talk about them. Don't ignore them, don't brush them off. Because they might just be big enough to scar you.
Holy fuck, I didn't realise there was a name for what I went through, I had a sister be diagnosed with a chronic illness that left her paralysed from the neck down and we were living out of hospitals for the next ten years, I lived with my Dad while my Mum basically lived in hospital with my sister. I guess that makes me a glass child, I don't blame my parents but damn that makes a lot of things make sense to me now. My sister is doing well now too, still gets treatment but does very well for herself.
That is actually so relatable, the psychological response to stress and the consequences of it. I also find it quiet hard to get attached or to fall in love with people
This was an extremely valuable insight for me. Someone very close to me I think would benefit quite profoundly from reading some of what I'm now reading about glass children and well sibling syndrome due to this post. I appreciate you sharing and hope you're well.
You dealt with your feelings the right way for a man. Alone, thoughtful, and introverted. The man has an incredible mechanism to overcome adversity in his life. He's just got to listen to his own advice and act... It's a 'tough call', but it's also a very natural response for the man. You grow up thinking you're 'damaged,' but you're not. You've just adjusted to being a man. Being comfortable alone is pretty much where you need to be in terms of mental development. Men have to 'overcome' they have to find 'solutions' all whilst not complaining, not emotionally reaching out or showing weakness. That is how we build things. That is how we make things happen....
Interesting topic. I don't know but somehow I want to keep trying and being vulnerable as a guy. If people don't accept it it's a clear sign for me to not want to have them in my life.
treu, it's a big part of my screening process for choosing a partner aswell. what would create more trusts between man and woman than being able to share with eachother and grow together? if it's a one way streets it's not a relation, atleast not one worth persuing unless you want to keep that act up every second of your life when you're together. kill me now
For all my life I've keep things bottled up and didn't know how to communicate properly. In other words, I had a hard time knowing what I was feeling, let alone talking about it. And all my relationships failed. But I learned, and it's great, and for the first time in my life I'm with someone wonderful with whom I can be open and honest and vulnerable. It's something I never thought possible. I'm saddened to see all the comments here from guys saying you should NEVER be vulnerable with a women, especially your loved one. It's horrible. Vulnerability and genuine communication are essential for things to work out. Today I know that. You just need to find a good person who will take you as a whole complex human being, not just a thought of what a man should be.
Being vulnerable is so important. I practice it every day with men and women. The right people appreciate it and won’t shame you for it. My wife and her family are pretty great in this regard
I was thinking the same. The cultural shift around gender could lead to a point that there is no cultural code for interaction between the genders around relationships and romance. And after all the complaining and attaks on men, there comes a point at which you just don't really care about women anymore. Not in an aggressive sense, but really like: I don't bother.
i wonder about that as well. and ive also noticed becoming apathetic towards woman over the past few years. i dont even feel desire towards them anymore. when i was younger, i would fall asleep with the imagination of having someone to cuddle with next to me, someone i had a genuine connection with. today, thats also completely gone. its like realizing that santa claus isnt real. you just stop wishing. im not even sad, because i know that genuine connection is not happening, even if i have someone. it just feels empty to even talk to them. honestly, its just apathy at this point. being with someone is a life aspect that is completely gone from my mind. i wonder how many guys feel the same.
You mentioned couples who break up during bad times. I've been telling so many of my patients that, if you found someone you can love through a pandemic with, you have to hold onto them. People give up too easily these days when things get tough not realizing the relationship will be so much stronger and better if they can make it through the bad times
When i "open up" to woman i usually try to water it down as much as possible Like im not letting them know the full story They can't handle seeing a man vulnerable So yeah they get the family friendly version
If there is one thing I learned in becoming a new dad this year is that, Men/Dads are not allowed to complain. While no one likes complaining, we are told as men to speak up and share our challenges, concerns and worries aloud. Yet when doing so to anyone, including doctors/midwives we are ignored, told “that’s not that bad” or “it could be worse”. Or told how much harder women have it. Which we already know they do, but you’re asking right? Or well, we’re not even asked. This has made me understand why traditional values of men being a rock, and holding emotions in come from. We can bear it. We endure it “because we are men”. If the man of the family folds and becomes vulnerable. The family does. Raising kids is hard, and newborns are stressful. We now expect men to be more involved and more open about the stress. Yet we then dismiss, compare or ignore them when they do. So it’s easier to just not say anything.
I really want to be a dad but I’ve noticed this experience and it worries me. I can tell dads get totally sidelined, meant only as a sacrifice for everyone else’s sake
My wife and I went through some terrible things together around 25 years or so ago. We both did and said things that were horrible. We finally made it through with some emotional conversations and time. We are stronger now than ever and are both extremely happy and satisfied with our marriage. We are true soul mates.
Every relationship I've had has ended as soon as I started talking about my feelings and being vulnerable. Don't fall for it, friends. Only talk about your feelings with friends, never with your partner.
What's the point of having a partner who you can't be honest with? Are you really that desperate for sex and/or reproduction that you'd tolerate a relationship with someone who you have to be fake with or else they'd leave you? I get that it hurts when you realize you picked a bad person to be in a relationship with. But that's all it is. If it happens again and again, it suggests there's a problem with the way you are selecting partners, not that it's some iron-clad rule of the universe (which I can assure you from personal experience, it isn't).
Advice for men. ONLY open up to your guy friends, therapist & family members (male or female) that you trust and are ok with being vulnerable around... NEVER EVER open up to your girlfriend about anything. Women say that they want a man who is vulnerable but I assure you it will be used against you & her level of attraction to you will fall. Women want their man to be their rock who is on top of his game in every way at all times
3 out of 4 older sisters and my mother+3 of 4 adult intimate female relationships I've had say otherwise. We are just describing our real lived experiences with today's women!
Men should just talk to God, or find some older dude who is about it who can be a mentor. Forget therapy for anything other than PTSD or some severe abuse issue. Most problems a man has have to be fixed by themselves by setting a goal, setting a plan to reach the goal and accomplishing the tasks every day.
I know what you mean about good times not being a good predictor of a future divorce. There was this RUclips short I watched a while ago and it was a doctor saying there are two types of couples: 1) Couples who fight when a problem comes up, and therefore weaken their relationship. 2) Couples who work together or find their relationship strengthening when a problem comes up.
My mom used to loose her nerve on me and my brother pretty much everyday ( screaming and slapping) . One day that my grandpa was sick ( I was very close to him because he would take care of me as my parents worked a lot and during holidays) she announced to me as I was getting out of the car to go to school , that he had cancer and was not going to make it and then she drove away. I was 11 or 12 . I spent the two first hours of school crying on my desk . When the bell rang as I was bending to put my books into my bag, an other kid kicked me in the head and ran away . I couldn't tell who did it as I was almost knocked out but I knew it was because I showed weakness in front of all my class ( it was the first and only time ). The only thing it teached me is that people are cruel and want nothing to do with weakness, even if it's justify.I guess it's a natural reaction because weakness is dangerous in the wild and it could endanger the pack ( other people) You have to choose if you grow stronger out of it or if you let it destroy you. That's pretty much all you can do . Don't expect the world to change for you because it won't.
I've scrolled the comments section, and responded to the anecdotes regarding the reality of male vulnerability, and how it isn't really allowed. But I'm out of a decade-long marriage, in my 30's, and I've found no less than 7 women interested in me, and I've been vulnerable with all of them at different times. I will say, 1 of the 7 had no idea what to do with it, because... they're used to being the vulnerable one, and another made it about her, because she's probably emotionally stunted, but I've chased none of them, and they're all choosing to stick around. So, maybe most women just suck.
I think the distinguishing point you made is that men who have already accomplished a lot, who open up and be vulnerable, really do get the opportunity to be "let off the hook" or allowed to "express themselves", simply by virtue of "the hard road they had to go down to get successful". Whereas the every day man who's just struggling his ass off, with very little help or guidance from others, often gets shamed for being vulnerable, when in fact, they are the one's that need the most support. I'm sure Chris would admit that if he didn't win his 7th title it would've been a crappy feeling but not the end of the world, simply by proxy of all the success he's had up until then. Really interesting.
We live in the age of equality. And yet almost a million men have died in ukraine. And almost all of them were forced to fight. That is the great lie of our generation. 😂😂
My aunt kept asking my brother if he was clothing pin or a man whenever he would not act like a "man" aka be weak or complain about something he didn't like to do. He was a little child....8 years old....now he never opens up to any woman besides maybe his girlfriends.
I have the the opposite problem, most of my ex girlfriend's told me I'm "insensitive", a "narcissist" or "brutal" whatever that means. Whoever you are women gonna complain, you are too little this, you are too much that. The best is just be yourself how you were born and raised. Who cares what other think, I support the sensitive guys although I am not one of them.
Whatever you do in a relationship, dont allow your mental deficiency or ill mental health affect you. Many will use your own illness and problems against you. I guess as we get older we realise that a partner has to be exactly that. I would have thrown myself on a physical or emotional grenade for my wife, but as soon as I got poorly my problems became hers. Hard to take. Great video Chris, to all of my brothers out there, you will be ok, and you can go on to better things.
Simple: Men who women already view as strong are allowed to display weakness because this deepens their grasp on men's personalities, Men who women already view as weak merely confirm what women know about how weak they are. One wows them but the other repulses them.
never let her go my man, and don't abuse her for that, because just reading that comment, i personally am scared that one day she will mind it. but how can i judge behind this screen? you do you man
The sad reality is that society thinks they totally understand men….it doesn’t have a clue! We all get labelled with the same marker. Too many of us are getting tossed to the side being branded as pathetic or not worthy to be called a man. This has to stop and if it doesn’t it’s going to cause a lot of guys to become bad not good. If we want positivity in men we need drive, direction, interest and passion. We need purpose.
As a 55yo man.and alone and single for 26years now..my motto is to always help without ever asking for help,to give but never to recieve and to love without ever being loved..its called the joy of the beautiful struggle..
Learng how to 'fight' in a committed relationship takes training. Most men are not familiar with these skills. It takes two to tango, and to enter the ring with love. Women are equally in need of learning the art of 'fighting fair'.
Having been now married for 35 years i can honestly say that open and honest communication has been our strength over the years. That communication was established early on when we were dating.
Recently, I had a challenging split. The breakup of my five-year relationship a few months ago has been quite difficult. I still harbor a deep affection for my ex-boyfriend, and I can't seem to stop thinking about him. My attempts to win him back have been unsuccessful, and at this point, it seems impossible to be with anybody else. It may seem strange to admit this, but I miss him terribly and can't stop thinking about him.
The very first thing said in this video is the key. It's okay for a man to show (some) emotions as long as it comes from a place of strength and command of the situation. "I'm feeling this way but it's okay I've got this."
The way you talk about vulnerability reminds me of what the difference is between being weak and being peaceful. Which being the ability to cause harm if required. Being weak means you can not cause harm even if you wanted to. I wonder if the same applies here for emotional management/showing your emotions?
I think in all honesty that we simply just have a LOT of deeply fragmented and emotionally damaged people who need an identity to validate the emptiness one feels in a soulless technological hellscape.
A very interesting video, thank you for sharing your/men’s view point. As a woman, in her 30s, this makes me sad to hear. I want to KNOW and SEE my man. It’s a red flag for me if a man won’t fully be himself with me or include me in his inner world, the men in my prior relationships with these characteristics were less interested than they said and/or incapable of connection. Well isn’t that a paradox? Vulnerability is a sign of trust and strength, and yes of course, not all your inner most emotions and thoughts have to be shared with your partner but discussed with someone more appropriate, psychologist, etc. I would never look down on a man (or woman) being vulnerable or showing pain, if a b*tch does, let her go. The only reasons I can see for a lack of an empathetic response are assholes feeling sorry for themselves, severe immaturity, spoiled and entitled overgrown brats - no matter the gender
Every other girl will say this, but things turn out to be something opposite. They get disinterested and irked. I believed in my best friend, thought she was different but things got too much for her. Women can't handle a man's emotions. Never open up. Stay alone love everyone, don't expect anything back. If you can't control your expectations don't do anything for anyone.
The problem is that for every woman like you, there are many more who are far less empathetic, and so the risk men take in being vulnerable with any woman - no matter how empathetic that woman is on the inside - is extremely high.
At it's root, toxic masculinity is masculinity that does not permit emotional intelligence or vulnerability. We have some major double standards to work through here - both men and women.
On the marriage and divorce front, I don't know how many weddings you've been to in the last 20 years, Pat classical marriage vows have been removed from all but the most Orthodox of wedding ceremonies. For richer or for poor, in sickness and in health. That line has been excised from the sentiment around marriage. When in fact, the only proof of a marriage is its ability to persist through adversity. Being married when it is convenient is not a marriage at all.
I think it's really about meeting someone when you just went through hell and are in the rebound. So when you meet, you're not at your apex best, you're at a very real (maybe a bit raw) and hungry for more.
If those worst times arent of your own making. If you are in thr worst times because of a series of bad decisions you made then you cant expect a woman to tolerate it. No doubt she tried to tell you that you were screwing up before it got too bad.
@@ClaireGreen-wd2gm we're all humans. you're right, but everyone makes mistakes. if a woman instantly leaves you because you made a mistake or multiple, it's a very fragile/weak relationship. thats only held up by the image the man wants the woman to see, it's just not the full picture. and in my eyes not a full relationship. call me naive but i wil probably die with this view because i believe it's how it should be. but a lot of things should be different, but aren't
@svenheuseveldt7188 If its a series of mistakes shes not instantly leaving you. Shes had to sit there and watch you make a series of dumb decisions and she got tired of it. Men want a ride or die. Its like that doctor that was acting like he was having a psychotic break and packed his family up to drive them out of state because he thought someone was after them. She got in the car and just went along with it and he drove himself, his wife and children off a cliff in a Tesla and they all lived somehow. Men were praising her for being so trusting....but really yall think we should just sit there while yall literally or metaphorically drive the family off a cliff or its not true love. Like if a woman has any self preservation instincts at all you say she never loved you.
I think it's right that how couples handle conflict is telling. The problem is that it changes with the stage. Unfortunately the stages are kind of long. The honeymoon period can last 2 years. Those chemicals will change the way you have conflict. Once they are on the decline, then attraction is wearing off then you will start to fight more and then it's time to learn how to get through conflict with each other. Often times this all happens unconsciously so that couples are just finding out who they really are in the relationship 6 months to 2 years in. A potential way of changing the dynamic is to know what will happen and talk about it early on consciously. How do you fight? how do you want to fight? What do you typically fight about? What would help? because if you're really thinking of committing then thinking together about how to get through the conflicts is probably going to help after those chemicals wear off. it might not though, those hormones are powerful and change people quite dramatically at times.
Hello you savages. Watch the full episode here - ruclips.net/video/WDMgfz-R7pA/видео.html
Onward and upward!
Chris, were you talking about When Men Behave Badly by David Buss? Wanting to be sure. Thank you for this. Im melting down right now and this is a great dose of reality and hope!
I hear what you're saying, but Darwin is a joke in the study of evolution.
If we saw vulnerability as only an act of strength then men who need to be able to have accountability can. Otherwise, the man is not really expressing vulnerability but "neediness" or immaturity. Which again, thats fine in as much as maturing is concerned. Not the same thing though.
When I met my (then) future-wife, I was doing well. My business was taking off, my weight lifting was paying off, and I had just bought a house. I was 'a catch' in the Darwinian sense. We were 'happy'.
When we were cohabitating (soon to be married), I got hit with an intestinal virus. I remember being doubled over in excruciating pain - tears pouring down my face. It was more than I could bear.
While this was happening, I looked at her and could see her respect for me draining away. It was palpable. It bordered on disgust - that her strong man was showing weakness. I'll never forget that.
That should have been a 'red flag' - but I missed it. The upside is that we're divorced now - and I am happy.
My ex wife did the same. I got sick and she would get angry with me. If I broke down because of her constant psychological torture she would just look at me with disgust. I can't believe I actually loved her.
That's pretty horrible. It's not like you were emotionally being a softie. GI pain can be incapacitating
I know this happens but I just don't comprehend it. The only times I've lost respect for a man or a woman being vulnerable was if they did it to themselves and were trying to get me to feel sorry for them. My husband has cried due to a death in the family, an abscessed tooth, etc., I never thought anything negative about it, only was concerned for him. There are a lot of shitty women out there, :/.
Wow you can have a business, a house and be lifting and she'd still leave you 😂
Don't mean to sound like an incel. But what's the point. What actually is the point.
@@smokingcrab2290 Yeah me too, I also can't believe you loved her.
This is one of the many reasons father is so essential. Someone to have those doubts with privately with another man.
Never underestimate your role as a father in the life of your children, or as a father-figure in your community. Essential.
Yeah but that doesn't apply in the context of this video. It's the smartest men who learned from their fathers who are in majority not engaging. The real debate is about getting men involved and we simply have zero incentive anymore. And by zero incentive I mean historic levels of liability just so the top 23% can benefit while we get none. We simply don't want to be used for nothing in return.
The problem is majority of fathers are not capable of handling their own emotions.
Great comment. Sometimes the comments better than the videos lol
You mean those of us who are lucky enough to have fathers that didn't let us down need to go and open up, in turn letting them down? Hopefully the next generation gets the memo and just stops this stupid humankind experiment already
I’m a 62-year-old gay female. Over the course of my life I’ve had dozens of straight male friends who’ve said things like “You’re the first female friend I’ve ever had who I could really talk to about my feelings without being judged or made to feel bad about them.” It breaks my heart. My message to straight women: Stop torturing men. If he trusts you enough to tell you the truth, have enough spine to hear him. Men aren’t machines. They are people. Don’t use someone’s feelings against them - male or female - this is a form of manipulation, in an attempt to have ‘power over’ the other person. Real friends don’t need to do this. Grow yourself up. ✨💖✨
My female co-worker who works in the same department is gay and shes often like my buddy who I can be real open about vulnerable stuff like fighting cancer, my dads dementia upsetting me and being a recovering addict. I can talk to her about anything and theres no judgement whatsoever and its quite refreshing. If I talk about this stuff with a potential dating partner its just labelled "red flags" or an ick despite me being sober for years, very responsible and financially secure. Sometimes we just gotta get stuff off our chest too and talking it out with someone you care about can help tremendously.
That is a weird thing to conclude. But really nice that you have the empathy to be friendly with straight males. That is really cool ❤
The number of times I have had deep emotional vulnerability turned against me has been countless. I would much rather never speak than to have my words weaponized.
I wish I had you
ok
My dad left home after divorce, slowly everything started breaking. One of my friends made a joke how our doorbell wasn’t working.
I told mom and all she said was “I suppose you have to fix it yourself if it bothers you”. I was 14 and slowly stopped inviting friends
Small edit: after 2 years of therapy I started speaking with mom again, I worked up my courage to confront her about the time she would pinch and push me, only for her to say ‘that never happened’ in front of the therapist
I saw the look in my face in the mirror, the same as my dads. Haven’t talked with mom in the past six years
You shouldn't have done it in front of the therapist. It's not likely a woman would ever take account for actions like that (but they all do it.. they have no physical filter), but if you had any chance, it would have been with just the two of you.
Not the first time I’ve heard a story like this. Sorry for your pain. That must have been hard.
Yes! Also empathic support statement from me, too! @mycoachdave had the right idea here. My emotions closely follow my mind in terms of strength and impact, but they DO follow it. MY thoughtful commentary always jumps out before my empathic support. It's a problem, fr. Sorry about that.
Keep it up. I went back to my insane abusive mother to forgive her after 16 years of silence and it took her 2 weeks to throw that same insane violent energy at me. She's in her 60's now and I'm done.
I feel for you. I was abused by a close cousin when I was a kid. People tell me I should confront my mother when she specks highly of him, which used to be all the time. I see absolutely no point to this. She would totally respond like your mother did, by not believing me and dicounting the whole thing. She was abusive herself (pinching, pushing, degrading me on why I can't be like my cousins). I just get disgusted by the whole thing but sometimes it's best to just move on and be a better man by learning from your experience.
Women can say they want men to be more vulnerable and "in touch with their emotions" until they're blue in the face. It's not going to outweigh the amount of men who I hear say it's never worked out for them. And I'm honestly done talking about it. If you have to cry, do it alone or with your male best friends.
Its almost never a good idea to be vulnerable around women. If you gotta do it find a trusted friend.
I think the problem is that the only "men" women see are the high status and contextually influential males. They have earned her respect and so she gives them permission to share. Men who cannot earn women's attention or respect, are honestly invisible and never considered when women talk about men.
I believe women do genuinely believe they want their guy to show his weaknesses as a sign of trust. But, like many things, theory does not work well in practice. It's social desirability bias. They think it's the right thing to say.
@@SeanCosgrove1 true
They want men to be in touch with their emotions so that they (women) don't have to fix it.
We went to couples counseling (worthless by that point). I opened up in front of my significant other and the female psychologist. I watched them make eye contact with each other and smirk like I was pathetic. NEVER open up to a woman. EVER. They interpret it all as weakness.
For me, she doesn’t look at me like I am “pathetic”. Instead, she acts as though I am being “weird” and/or “overreacting”.
@@RoyalFizzbin Oh yeah that TOTALLY helps, bro.
Jesus landed back on Earth when he saw that.
Or just date better woman
My wife is a therapist, and it sounds like the therapist was just bad. Opening up to my wife is the best part of my day sometimes, takes away the stress, worry and she makes me feel better. You’ll find someone who actually cares. And don’t stop going to therapy, it’s not a silver bullet but it can be id you work at it.
Never show weakness to a woman. Not because every woman will use it against you but because most of them will. It isn’t worth the risk.
The real problem is that any man would feel the need to show women emotion in a reciprocal fashion. Why would you need validation from an inferior? If your character doesn't mirror this in a benevolent manner you're lost.
@@ONETimothy2.12-14good point.
@@ONETimothy2.12-14Inferior?
Man this is some 100% bullshit talk. There's a difference between crying because you're weak and can't overcome basic life hurdles and just expressing emotion. Most women know the difference. A lot of men talk about a woman who cries a lot as unstable or "too emotional" or crazy. We do it to them, too. Crying or showing emotion isn't showing weakness. If you cry about a problem and give up, that's weakness. If you cry about a problem then overcome it, that's strength. Women 100% see the difference. I don't cry often, but I've certainly cried in front of my wife. The guys in this comment section who are saying the stuff you are saying really don't seem like they have much emotional intelligence. It's really not that hard to figure out.
@paolointhenight I see where you're coming from, but you're forgetting about bad experiences. Let's say you let your girlfriend know about a traumatic experience in your childhood and she either laughed in your face or used it against you in an argument isn't possible for him to paint all women like that ?
Every single woman I've ever opened up to has weaponized my vulnerability and turned it against me intentionally to hurt me. Including my mother, both of my sisters, and women I've dated. I will not be sharing how I feel with anyone anymore.
You're the common denominator. It's statistically impossible that 100% of women you opened up to, ALL weaponized your vulnerability.
And of course you think that's the correct answer to you past situations. My man, I think this is a 'you' problem
@@JaZmine147 You took the "convenient" path of victim blaming to absolve the women. Another explanation is that he was the family scapegoat. And yes, people tend to seek the drama they suffered during childhood in their future relationships because it is familiar to them emotionally and they cannot even process being treated differently. It happens with abused girls too. I wonder if you would say that to them too.
@JaZmine147 I don't think you understand what "statistically impossible" means. He's only talking about 3 family members plus a cohort of dating partners. You have no idea what his age is or how many women he's even talking about. How could it be necessarily "impossible"? At what no of women does it cross the impossible threshold?
@@JaZmine147 what are you yapping about? How could being hurt by 5-6 women be statistically impossible?:D
You have no idea how much I appreciate you talking openly about this. As a female, I will never know the struggles of men but I have watched the outcome of it and it is heartbreaking to say the very least. Dan Griffin talks about the Man Rules and I took his course on Men and Trauma. 10/10 recommend. Men deserve a safe place in society to discuss these topics. How can we ask our men to be vulnerable, open, and connect to us and yet, condemn them for doing so?!
They get condemned because HYPERGAMY WILL NEVER CARE
I don’t even believe that “talking” about it is necessarily the first step. It should be value and appreciation first. Just a base level of understanding and empathy and men will fight these battles, on their own. Willingly, without resent as long as society and women can stop condemning them.
@ I hear you. I can only speak to my experience. When I change, awareness is always the first step. I can do absolutely nothing about something I refuse to look at. So the more awareness that is brought to a topic, the more likely I personally am, to value or appreciate it.
It's good that you care about the topic, much appreciated
I admire your empathy it shows a willingness to understand and not judge which is rare.
You don't have to show vulnerability for many women to get the ick, you just have to show emotions that do not "befit" a man, i.e. other than confidence, contentment (not too much of it to cross over to happiness) and anger. Even stopping to pet a stray cat or lamenting seeing a homeless person will give many women the ick.
Re: that last sentence-good lord. Sounds like a good filter to actively use to rid yourself of what I assume must be truly awful human beings, if they even deserve that term.
You know what if she gets disgusted by you stopping to pet a stray cat then she can go
I’m not gonna change who I am just to make them not get an ick
>Even stopping to pet a stray cat
Please, no. Person that unconciously judges me for petting a cat does not belong in my life.
Patrice O'Neal said it best, women do not want to really know, best comedian to ever talk about men/women dynamics. Both the man and the woman has to be on the same level of emotional and intellectual maturity.
RIP Black Philip
Oh Patrice , I wish I could go back in time and put him on a pescitarian diet and have him do crossfit.
I opened up to a Girl on a date because she talked about her Father quite a bit and how much she looked up to him. My Dad died when I was 25, I tried my best in my early 20's to heal the wounds from my teen years with him and we had a good relationship.
When I mentioned this to the Girl, I felt it was a huge turn off for her and she withdrew a bit from me.
Emotional vulnerability for men is still viewed negatively, even subconsciously. So don't open up to those you hold close, because it will backfire and you will end up alone.
or do do it and see which woman you can actually build a strong and lasting relationship with? don't take this advice to far though.
@svenheuseveldt7188 was my first date in 6 years. it came out cause she was talking alot about her Dad.
So probably never again.
Don't open up + hold close are complete opposite things. The comments on this video completely confuse me. Why are you building a relationship with someone who doesn't care about you at all? What's the point? Are you just using them as a baby making factory with a superficial relationship plastered on top?
It very tempting to close up and swallow that sorrow, rendering yourself as lonely and miserable. Yet it's not the path for happiness, my friend. Those feelings would stay and destroy you from within. At least in my personal experience. Isnt the ultimate goal is happiness? If then, i would advise to continue seeking admiration, even when you feel like you much better shut up about your feeling forever.
Not a universal experience, that's for sure. I actually have an anecdote of the opposite: in my 20s it actually helped me get a girl to open up about my grandfather, who had passed away. Years later (when we were still together) she told me that telling her about that, in a heartfelt and vulnerable position, actually made her feel closer to me, because I was being genuine about something difficult. Some girls are tired of being surrounded by superficial jerks. There are good ways to be vulnerable and honest imo, to create real connections.
What I wanted was a partner to share a lifetime of adventures; what I got was a stranger who'd married me for my earning potential. Sometimes even being a 'good guy' isn't enough - go figure.
Don't marry, it's outdated, especially when it's so one-sided. Marriage helped men who weren't as attractive or as capable; it was a contract that was given to w_m/n as a "don't worry, if he doesn't measure up you can split keep a certain %" and reciprocity between each other was implied. If you are a guy who can be attractive and has resources why would you give up your leverage? Especially when it's basically almost ALL your leverage? Everyone talks about grape, which is OBVIOUSLY wrong, but no one talks about financial and reputational grapes which can f' men for LIFE.
@@eduardomartin8510pick better women anc be a better man. Been married for 11 years, every day is better than the last.
@@gsp4prez lol *edit: I feel like I need to explain the lol. Your n=1 is not more powerful than the massive divorce statistics. Also you are at year 11. Also picking "better" and "being better" is not a guarantee down the road. It also doesn't absolve a bad decision, it only reduces its probability of back//f-ring.
(Having said all of that I do wish you well and I hope you continue to have a very successful and happy marriage)
I've been in 3 serious long term relationships, fathered children and raised them to be good adult people and actually protected them from their mother who became a drug addict. Never hit or abused a female in my life. Yet all I hear about men is we are DV abusers, monsters and basically women telling men how to be men (imagine men telling women how to be a woman). I've raised my sons to never apologize for being male, be strong, confident, respect those who deserve it and protect those you love. Thankfully, they have turned out to be just that.
Respect, sir. Similar situation with me. Raised my son - because his mother was an addict. He's well-adjusted, works hard, and is a good person. He respects women, but will not be disrespected by them.
good job
Well done.
They have a good chance to survive and even thrive in this cesspool of a "society" that we find ourselves in.
I’ve been teased and mocked by women I’ve dated for not feeling emotional or expressing vulnerabilities. Conversely, I’ve been treated like a pariah or wussy or both the moment I let something significant out. I suppose the lesson is it’s better to be baited than to take the bait…
Lmao, some women co-workers will get on me for being quiet and keeping to myself. They’re like a bunch of construction workers (ironic) “I don’t see a ring on that finger, do tell”, I don’t and they immediately come with the gay jokes. They’re literally toxic men in a middle age Karen body.
My friends, it's easy: complain/open up/be vulnerable with your friends, father, brother, cousin, boss, colleague, but NEVER with your partner...
It's really that simple.
Then, you'll live with her admiration intact in this particular area.
That’s because some high status males show vulnerability to help elevate their status. Like a humble brag - I’m so high status and confident that I am comfortable enough to talk about this vulnerable thing.
Yes, I may be a billionaire now but it know how it feels to be poor because ...
Brutal
The comments section here is so vast and nuanced, I really appreciate (ironically) the way men are sharing their stories here and being vulnerable. It's both inspiring, and heartbreaking, thank you guys.🙏🏿
When women say they want men to talk about their feelings they ONLY mean ONE THING: They want the stoic, masculine man in their life to tell them how much he loves them. That's it. NO OTHER FEELINGS ARE REQUESTED. If you take that as a cue to talk about your fear of failure or spiders, you are making a HUGE MISTAKE. That is NOT the kind of feelings she is asking for. She may be kind and supportive at first, but on the backside you will lose massive amounts of attraction.
Can the attraction be gained back would you say?
I find this to be correct. She wants you to be emotional, open, and vulnerable regarding HER feelings. Yours need not apply.
Think you might be overgeneralizing from your past experiences
If someone loses attraction for me because of that, I don't want their attraction in the first place.
I truly believe that you can live in the mindset where you can show your vulnerabilitys to your Partner and get Full 100% repect from her at the Same time. When a Women is seing your vunrable parts and when she is seing every side of You and then decides not to be with you, how should she be a Person you can spend your whole life with. Why should we Even be sad about auch a loss. In my opinon, this is Not a loss at all. When you live in that mindset Everyone will recognize this as a strength.
When someone is seing you how you really are(with all your vulnerabilitys) and the decides to be with you and to love that. You exactly know that this is the Right Person.
I grew up believing that women wanted men who could talk about their emotions. Experience taught me differently. Women want strength.
Here's the reality of the situation. If a man is emotional about a situation that a woman believes is not worth being upset about, she sees it as a weakness and looks down on him. If he's emotional about some situation she believes is worth being emotional about, she may be more accepting of it. But how do men know which situations women find worthy of a man showing emotion? They don't. That's why they need to keep it locked down tight.
If something is bothering a man and he just has to get it out, he should talk to another man about it.
Women will swear they want a man to be able to share their feelings, and they may really believe it. It doesn't matter how many times they say it, it's not true. Maybe it's biologically programmed, and they aren't even aware it will disgust them until it happens. But then it's too late.
I wish this wasn't true, but I have absolutely no doubt it is.
And why or why can't they develop their own strength? Why is that no longer expected of women?
You should visit their online communities. Lots of them loathe the idea of being the therapist of the relationship. It is funny, because at the same time you might find a woman says the previous statement while saying she also wants an emotionally available man.
Yeah, I went to the hospital once. She was just pissed to be there when we didn’t know what was happening. Never will forget that.
Also, I once told her I think men are struggling in today’s world. I listed some stats about 3/4 homeless, lower graduation rates, etc. she said it sounded like “woe is me”.
Never will forget that either.
They're wired to stand at the finish line and pick the winners. The other men in the race don't matter.
Yup, I mean that's pretty much the thing you get on the media, too. Here in Germany they paid once again for a video about boys failing at school, and it was pretty much framed as boys are dumb and lazy and "have feelings they can't articulate". The same old abusive stuff.
Exactly right you must prove your strength and capacity to lead and overcome, the vulnerable moments must always come with the edge to keep going. Women understand we are human and will have falls but they need to see that we have the strength to get up and keep going. This is one of the pillars of manhood "embracing the suck" for we must shelter the family through the storm, have the skill set to recover and tackle the next day because the world keeps spinning. STAY HARD!
At this point I’ve just accepted that I can’t be vulnerable, I love my girl but I don’t think she needs to be hearing all that . I wouldn’t apply this way of thinking to every man but for me i just feel like I should just keep it to myself and cowboy up . Life don’t get easier I just need to get stronger
I used to work with men as a therapist. I’m a man too. You can’t hold it all in without massive issues with blood pressure, heart attacks and stroke. It’s a big deal. Find an outlet.
I think that no matter how strong we are or how strong we can get, something in some moment will get the best of us.
I felt free to tell my girl stuff until one day she asked me “Do you regret opening up to me?” I didn’t, nothing happened yet. It was foreshadowing. I certainly ended up regretting it.
@@gsp4prez Can the attraction and respect be gained back would you say?
My outlet is my workouts, not whining into my wife’s ear.
She doesn’t need to know every little frustration or insecurity. For what??
Even mothers will use your vulnerability. Write it down instead of sharing it to get it out
That's messed up that's crazy to me. How the hell can a Mother who has sons use her son's vulnerability against him when he's hurting wtf?! A lot of women shouldn't have kids.
From my personal experience, it's true. Even your mother will use your secrets against you.
Sorry bro you have a bad mother
From a son with a divorced mother. This statement is true
I like the idea of writing it out. Get it straight in your head, devise a plan, and come back to the journal for reevaluation. 👍
Whatever you do, don’t blurt it all out!
Once we show weaknesses things get even worse. Were not built to be weak and to clarify it does it mean being a jerk or acting like you're a badass. It's when things get bad you keep your shit together and don't show weakness keep your head up and keep pushing forward.
I've been married for almost 20 years. I can show my wife my deepest vulnerability and she will support me in that moment and I know I'm safe. Because of that I can be the strongest man I can be for her 99% of the rest of the time and provide for her and protect her gladly. Tragic reading the comments on here. To all the men reading this; If you can't show your vulnerable side to your partners, ditch them now and wait for a strong woman who can be there for you when you need them to be, which will make you want to support them. There are decent women out there. Be patient and don't accept any selfish ones that need to grow up.
Yeah, my wife also actually respects my softer side, and much prefers the side of me that wants to talk about things. And not the side that gets angry and moody because I'm not expressing myself.
It sounds like the problem is picking weak women? That doesn't surprise me.
Thank you for writing this. It gives me so much hope
I have four sons all young adults. At a recent get together with all their partners this subject came up with girlfriends all stating how they should share their feelings/ vulnerabilities.
I shocked their partners when I said never do that.
I told them if they were having problems come to me their father. What would be discussed would go no further and a solution would be found.
More importantly their vulnerability would never be weaponized against them in some future argument. Sorry ladies but when you choose violence this is the violence you choose. My job is still to protect no matter how old they are .
You must think you’re god or something that you can fix your adult son’s problems. What if they are marital problems? What business is that of yours?
What if it’s a personal problem their wife is having? Are they bringing these intimate details to you?
And what kind or violence are the women bringing?
If a solution is that easy to find then your sons need to grow up. True interpersonal problems don’t have quick solutions.
I call it "emotional violence", mainly use of a weakness shared or an incident where weakness was shown instead of strength then used against the person's partner in order to win a fight, argument or show dominance in a particular space and sometimes in a social gathering where others experience the evil of a "false partner".
Stay focused, on your new path and strength through adversity.
I'm not just a Uniform
Thank you OP for sharing this. I will remember it. You validated externally something I have experienced in my own life, because my father did this for me, in a completely non-judgmental and supportive way throughout my early adulthood. I one day told him that he is my confidant, and I really appreciated him for just holding the space for me. I am only now beginning to realise what a huge impact it has had on me and reading your comment made me realise that this is something I will be doing with my own sons when they become adults. Edit: the reason I initially felt moved to comment was because of what you said about protecting. I have had the privilege of being a strong protector to my family in times of need, and I absolutely resonated with what you said. Tapping into that protective instinct in spite of what others may feel or think in the moment has always carried me through, and because of that, I recognise that your comments at the gathering were a response to that very same instinct and I am sure your sons will benefit from your wisdom and masculinity. Thank you again for sharing this story.
You’re a great father man, this is the way to do it 100%
@kc6810 That was mostly irrelevant to the op's point. Read him again, he talks about sharing vulnerabilities and pains and such. Not interpersonal affairs but personal feelings. And that's the emphasis the op puts: keeping the lady away from your vulnerabilities while consulting with an older man to put an end to the trouble.
The latter is questionable, yes. In my 27 years no older man ever could help me with his "wisdom" when I actually asked for one. I had to learn the worst by myself and by my friends' lives. Especially the lesson that a man better not uncover his vulnerabilities to his lady or his mom. And that having no senior figure to even try to calibrate with when lost is a crushing misery. Which is why even if the op can't solve a thing for his sons, the very fact that he offers himself that way is already a privilege.
I've found in the last couple of relationships I've been in, I've tried to allow myself to be vulnerable because I felt it's the adult thing to do. It never worked in my favour
life is about strenght and power. the west tried to make the world shift in a different direction, of equality, but human nature doesn't change. not fundamentally. you can't change million years of programming by following a class or by protesting outside. woman are what they are, they should try to be better, and men are what they are, and they should try to be better.
*"The government passed more laws to protect women from dirty jokes than to protect men from death by faulty rafters at a construction site."*
~ Warren Farrell
Brutal.
Eh...BS...there's an entire workplace safety agency called "OSHA" and they have lots of guidelines and standards for construction.
Remember guys, society only values you for your productivity. Check off a lot of boxes of successes and society values you. Fail, or be in need, and society will kick you to the curb and not give you a second thought. Be of value and some might listen to you.
Yet the ruling class behind the scenes have set up society to waste goods and productivity to keep the masses busy and create false scarcity while stifling competition.
Right on the money.
"Fail, or be in need, and society will kick you to the curb and not give it a second thought."
I'm right in the middle of this right now after more than a decade of "success" and it's horrible.
Work, money, health - I've got nothing left and nobody cares.
Yeah@@thisisfyne. It's a harsh reality, and many guys don't know this until it smacks them in the face. Hopefully, given some time, effort, and health healing, you can get back to a level where you can be self sustaining again, if not prosper.
Brutal
As the creators of future humans, women are built to optimise that process.
That means finding a guy who will protect and provide.
She needs him to care about her, so he does all that. And love her, so he sticks around long enough for the kids to be raised.
But does she need to care about him?
Does she need to love him?
Bring these relationship issues back to fundamental biological imperatives...
and you will find clarity.
As a man, you need to make yourself perfectly clear that you are in charge. No ifs or buts. You need to be a bit scary sometimes. You need to be unapproachable on occassions. You need to stay unfathomable. Mysterious almost... Don't listen to 'women talk'. Don't involve yourself with any of her friends. Keep her away from your friends within social environments. Reason? Well, shell try to control those aspects of your life. Drive wedges and barriers between you and your friends. Create emotional arguments that surround her friends or family. Make it clear from day one that you're not interested in her family or friends. You'll be polite and cordial, but that's it. Your focus is on her and your own children. You tell her that things will be paid for and looked after. You tell her we won't ever get married or joint own the house. The power stays with me....
Share nothing. Acknowledge your emotions but show none. Process your emotions later when you’re alone.
How about screening the woman from the start?
Purposely show your vulnerability to her and if she doesn't react well, ditch her and move on.
Works for me.
good luck being alone
I mean, there isn't another way to find out. Also, you may never find her.
If you find a girl that truly loves you she will be sympathetic, but there is always a limit. This is evolutionary and can never nor should ever be completely reversed. It's the way we select the strongest and weed out weakness.
@@EtoCobra Yeah there isn't another way other than being upfront. I learnt that when doing a deal, you need to put what is non-negotiable upfront. Also too many men sacrifice their own needs just to be in a relationship. If your needs are not met, there is no point in 'finding' someone.
@@crimson6172 I agree. Drawing boundaries and sticking to them seems to be a feature that lots of people lack nowadays.
I must be in some parallel dimension bc never in my life has showing emotional vulnerability caused me any harm or detriment. My only issue with women is showing how much I care about them and it not being reciprocated with each prospect I’ve invested effort in. Some have done it right, others are dogshit at being a mature adult about their own feelings.
It's because they expect you to go above and beyond to show how much you care about them. This eventually backfires in most relationships, assuming the man has a backbone.
So basically, you showed how vulnerable you were, then you didn't get any attraction back? That's precisely what they are telling you.
Part of the sad legacy of divorce is that in previous generations, young women struggling in their marriage could turn to a group of older married women for advice to work on themselves or to do/think about things differently. Now, without that wise counsel - the first instinct is to just chuck it all. Any older female mentors are all likely to be aging city girls or divorced single mums so they all harp on that instinct and tell women struggling in a relationship that she should just move on... The male version of this is the fatherless crisis. Men get in the most trouble in life when they are forced to rely on female counsel. Steel sharpens steel and without fathers/father-figures, most men are left soft and floundering.
being "in touch" with emotions and constantly sharing them are two different things. the reality is we have to be "in touch" with them so we know how to stay in control of ourselves to not be perceived as weak. we need to be "in touch" with them so we can stand strongly alone and deal with them/handle the situation.
see this as a positive or negative or however you want. support is great, but never share too much. it will destroy you even more.
Weakness is never respected. Don't think you're ever going to be strong enough to show where you're weak and be accepted for it.
When a woman wants to know what you are feeling she will tell you what you are feeling.
I have gradually changed my ideas about being vulnerable . I used to hate that feeling in myself and try to overcome it by distracting myself by DOING something like having a hard gym session. Now I try to really get into the feeling and experience it , allowing myself to cry as much as I want to , and I believe that this processes the feeling ( eg a rejection ) and allows me to overcome it. But I do NOT do this crying in front of a woman , and ESPECIALLY not in front of a woman I want to be attracted to me.
I was in a serious relationship with a girl who claimed to be non judgemental. When I opened up to her about my emotions she weaponized it and used it against me. It really hurt, im more careful who im vulnerable with nowadays.
My wife and I have been married for nine years and honestly every year gets better. We just had our first baby (a son) 14 months ago. We were both older when we met and had been through a lot of shitty relationships before. So I think we were ready to treat each other with respect and open up to each other. We have also been to counseling when needed. Refusing to be vulnerable is not a solution for anything.
My friend I sincerely hope your relationship thrives. Truly. Regarding being vulnerable towards her, I'm just here to tell you, don't test your luck. Time has a way of showing itself.
Exactly. I’m vulnerable to my wife…I’m also the leader of my household and at work. There are times I have to be tough and there are times I have to communicate and talk to my wife about any issue I have. THIS works for me…one size doesn’t fit all. You have to know the woman you’re marrying. We’re sharing a bed, body fluids etc etc…I’ll have to know the woman I’m with and visa versa.
My friends, it's easy: complain/open up/be vulnerable with your friends, father, brother, cousin, boss, colleague, but NEVER with your partner...
It's really that simple.
Then, you'll live with her admiration intact in this particular area.
God bless you and your family sir! I hope my story gets to turn out like this one day!
@@henriquemh7154 Hard disagree.
Here’s the problem: I can keep stuff bottled up, because *man*. However, I find that not expressing negative emotions (dissatisfaction, anger, frustration) leaves the door open for people to WALK ALL OVER YOU and/or take advantage of your reluctance to respond in accordance with any offense/disrespect/disappointing thing. Damned if you do, screwed over if you don’t.
Some times I go to a nearby hill top and scream to the abyss. It really sort of resets your power. You realize how much an impact you can have
That's a lack of assertiveness, not alack of vulnerability. You have to practice saying no, practice telling the truth, and practice being your authentic self, and/or raise your T levels. It's not easy.
Idk about you but I am great at directing my anger away from my loved ones so that nobody walks over me or them
if he must, a man should only cry alone and never tell anyone
He must. We’re humans.
My friends, it's easy: complain/open up/be vulnerable with your friends, father, brother, cousin, boss, colleague, but NEVER with your partner...
It's really that simple.
Then, you'll live with her admiration intact in this particular area.
I had to learn that the hard way from a relationship. It’s not about how well you get along, it’s about what happens when you don’t get along.
The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar Get it, Read it
I'll do it today.
I just have to share this story because I feel this truly applies to me. My last ex got divorced from a man who cheated on her, was psychologically manipulative, mean, and financially controlling. I dated her and was perfect the entire time. I supported her and gave her space when she needed it. We got along, never fought, had a lot of fun. I communicated my emotions well, got her flowers when she had a hard week, I was understanding when she got sick before a big wedding I was in and had to go to go alone to. I left the wedding early so I could go take care of her. I brought her to plays she liked. I surprised her with a fall train ride in the mountains, and made her breakfast every morning, and helped take care of her dog. The list goes on and on. I did everything right, no regrets at all, and she broke up with me. Why? "She didn't know." That was legit the answer I got. I'm sure she's going to go find another asshole and feel sad when they treat her like shit, but if she wants to throw away someone like me who was trying as hard as I could to support her, go for it. I don't care. It makes me want to stop trying though, because dating feels impossible these days. I can't keep putting all this effort into a bottomless pit void of emotions that I keep dealing with in dating.
Thanks all for sharing your stories. As someone looking to start dating again after 5 years, your comments are great (Men and Women).
Chris allows all of us to become deeper thinkers so, thank you Chris.
The overwhelming consensus here seems to be that we should never be vulnerable with our girlfriends/wives. If I'm honest that's been my experience in life be it, talking to my male friends/family or in my romantic relationships. Given that most of us will only gain a certain amount of 'man points' through the gym, earning more money etc...how do we approach being vulnerable? Should we be vulnerable? Should men only be vulnerable with each other?
I watched the video and read some of the comments. A few days ago I learned that a close relative in an argument with his ex-wife, she assaulted him and broke a bottle on his head (he could have been killed). If it wasn't for a witness at the incident he would be in jail right now. She denounced him for assault. I've been a witness of this marriage, and I've notice her red flags (except that she could be violent) my relative wasn't able to detect. As I'm paying more attention, and distrusting all advertising against patriarchy, I'm concluding that women's and girls' mental health have deteriorated in general. I don't expect anything from women, and much less when showing them vulnerability. When they claim that sensitivity, make sure it's true. I can ascertain that any sensitivity from women is a form of sociopathy and covert narcissism. It's pure BS.
After reading a lot of comments here my only thought is that a lot of men here married way too soon. Like WAY too soon.
I've been with my now-wife for 13 years before I proposed. And even then I got a prenup.
Please understand that at this point you have to vet your partner extensively and over a significant amount of time. Don't marry someone before you have been through hell with them. Don't marry someone you haven't hit the highest highs with. Don't marry someone you haven't seen at their worst and who hasn't seen you at your worst and weakest. Don't marry someone you haven't been in a rut with for a while. Don't marry someone you haven't fully opened up to and who hasn't fully opened up to you. Don't marry someone you haven't reached the point of fully open and honest communication with.
A good marriage is built on the ashes of you failures with the brick and mortar of you successes.
If someone pressures you into marriage before you hit those cruicial milestones then don't give in. The risk outweighs the benefits by lightyears. You have to make sure that you work well together. Both from your and their side. And both for your and their sake.
The lesson is that if a woman (or man) uses your vulnerability against you, you should not stop showing it, but instead it's not the right woman. Unfortunately there are a lot of "not right" women around (especially on the dating market, guess why they're single) so it becomes a long game of trial and error, if you were not lucky early in life to find a good woman.
50 seconds in. I’ve achieved these levels and it still doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t. Merry Christmas Eve.
over 10 years ago my sister got leukemia, everyone in my family took it very heavy but we were going to power through this. Also during that time I wasn't enjoying school, my grades dropped and I had to retake an entire year. The few friends I had passed and weren't in my class anymore. They all did internships so I wouldn't see them at school anymore. So I sat alone during lunch breaks. I really didn't want to go to school anymore but my parents were trying their absolute hardest to provide and care for my sister who ofcourse needed it most. My problems, seemed to small compared to hers, so why bother my parents with mine. I got depressed, but didn't want to burden my parents with my seemingly small problem. Couldn't bring myself to go to school anymore. I'd leave for school to give my parents the illusion I was fine but I'd cycle to a park bench somewhere sit for hours till my parents left the house for work or to go to the hospital to my sister. Then I'd go home and cry myself to sleep.
Now 9 years later I'm feeling amazing, my sister beat leukemia, I had changed college and got my degree. I'm more social then ever. Got a job I like, friends I go out with and i'm super happy. So then I meet this girl and we get to dating, start a relationship and its my first ever relationship. But now I find myself finding it hard to say "I love you" when she so easily says it to me. I find myself unable to miss her when we are apart, even though she misses me. She's the sweetest, nicest girl, but I just can't. So I break up with her because I feel like she'd give up herself to please me, and I feel so guilty for not being able to have that emotional connection she seems to have with me. So now i'm in familiar territory, I'm alone again, and I'm doing great. Cuz I have this superpower, where I don't mind being alone. Until someone tells me I'm a so called 'glass child' (google it if you have similar experience) and everything kinda clicks into place. That I learned to deal with the toughest of times by self isolating myself and that "superpower" I have of easily dealing with emotional pain and being alone comes from trauma and has disfigured me into someone who is completely unavailable on an emotional level and it now affects my relationships.
Moral of the story, no matter how small and insignificant your problems might seem, please, please, do talk about them. Don't ignore them, don't brush them off. Because they might just be big enough to scar you.
Holy fuck, I didn't realise there was a name for what I went through, I had a sister be diagnosed with a chronic illness that left her paralysed from the neck down and we were living out of hospitals for the next ten years, I lived with my Dad while my Mum basically lived in hospital with my sister. I guess that makes me a glass child, I don't blame my parents but damn that makes a lot of things make sense to me now.
My sister is doing well now too, still gets treatment but does very well for herself.
That is actually so relatable, the psychological response to stress and the consequences of it. I also find it quiet hard to get attached or to fall in love with people
This was an extremely valuable insight for me. Someone very close to me I think would benefit quite profoundly from reading some of what I'm now reading about glass children and well sibling syndrome due to this post. I appreciate you sharing and hope you're well.
You dealt with your feelings the right way for a man. Alone, thoughtful, and introverted. The man has an incredible mechanism to overcome adversity in his life. He's just got to listen to his own advice and act...
It's a 'tough call', but it's also a very natural response for the man. You grow up thinking you're 'damaged,' but you're not. You've just adjusted to being a man. Being comfortable alone is pretty much where you need to be in terms of mental development. Men have to 'overcome' they have to find 'solutions' all whilst not complaining, not emotionally reaching out or showing weakness. That is how we build things. That is how we make things happen....
Interesting topic. I don't know but somehow I want to keep trying and being vulnerable as a guy. If people don't accept it it's a clear sign for me to not want to have them in my life.
treu, it's a big part of my screening process for choosing a partner aswell. what would create more trusts between man and woman than being able to share with eachother and grow together? if it's a one way streets it's not a relation, atleast not one worth persuing unless you want to keep that act up every second of your life when you're together. kill me now
For all my life I've keep things bottled up and didn't know how to communicate properly. In other words, I had a hard time knowing what I was feeling, let alone talking about it. And all my relationships failed. But I learned, and it's great, and for the first time in my life I'm with someone wonderful with whom I can be open and honest and vulnerable. It's something I never thought possible. I'm saddened to see all the comments here from guys saying you should NEVER be vulnerable with a women, especially your loved one. It's horrible. Vulnerability and genuine communication are essential for things to work out. Today I know that. You just need to find a good person who will take you as a whole complex human being, not just a thought of what a man should be.
Being vulnerable is so important. I practice it every day with men and women. The right people appreciate it and won’t shame you for it. My wife and her family are pretty great in this regard
Just wonder if there is a way forward from the disconnect between men and women or if the chasm will get so deep there is no return.
I was thinking the same. The cultural shift around gender could lead to a point that there is no cultural code for interaction between the genders around relationships and romance. And after all the complaining and attaks on men, there comes a point at which you just don't really care about women anymore. Not in an aggressive sense, but really like: I don't bother.
Apathy is the point most of us western men have reached bordering upon absolute indifference to any women anywhere in any situation!
No
i wonder about that as well. and ive also noticed becoming apathetic towards woman over the past few years. i dont even feel desire towards them anymore. when i was younger, i would fall asleep with the imagination of having someone to cuddle with next to me, someone i had a genuine connection with.
today, thats also completely gone. its like realizing that santa claus isnt real. you just stop wishing.
im not even sad, because i know that genuine connection is not happening, even if i have someone. it just feels empty to even talk to them.
honestly, its just apathy at this point. being with someone is a life aspect that is completely gone from my mind.
i wonder how many guys feel the same.
Look at the women today and let me know if you think it’ll turn around lol. It’s long gone.
You mentioned couples who break up during bad times. I've been telling so many of my patients that, if you found someone you can love through a pandemic with, you have to hold onto them. People give up too easily these days when things get tough not realizing the relationship will be so much stronger and better if they can make it through the bad times
When i "open up" to woman i usually try to water it down as much as possible
Like im not letting them know the full story
They can't handle seeing a man vulnerable
So yeah they get the family friendly version
After careful consideration, I will be going insane in 2025.
ignorance is bliss sometimes. but knowledge makes us smarter, and thus we will be better off in the end.
Make sure you wear a little foil hat.
I should do that too
If there is one thing I learned in becoming a new dad this year is that, Men/Dads are not allowed to complain.
While no one likes complaining, we are told as men to speak up and share our challenges, concerns and worries aloud. Yet when doing so to anyone, including doctors/midwives we are ignored, told “that’s not that bad” or “it could be worse”. Or told how much harder women have it. Which we already know they do, but you’re asking right? Or well, we’re not even asked.
This has made me understand why traditional values of men being a rock, and holding emotions in come from. We can bear it. We endure it “because we are men”. If the man of the family folds and becomes vulnerable. The family does.
Raising kids is hard, and newborns are stressful. We now expect men to be more involved and more open about the stress. Yet we then dismiss, compare or ignore them when they do. So it’s easier to just not say anything.
I really want to be a dad but I’ve noticed this experience and it worries me. I can tell dads get totally sidelined, meant only as a sacrifice for everyone else’s sake
My wife and I went through some terrible things together around 25 years or so ago. We both did and said things that were horrible. We finally made it through with some emotional conversations and time. We are stronger now than ever and are both extremely happy and satisfied with our marriage. We are true soul mates.
Every relationship I've had has ended as soon as I started talking about my feelings and being vulnerable. Don't fall for it, friends. Only talk about your feelings with friends, never with your partner.
That's such misleading information, especially to young men. No point of being in a relationship if you can't be vulnerable.
Yeah but then... Why do you have a partner then? I'd rather be single then to be with someone who I don't really connect with.
What's the point of having a partner who you can't be honest with? Are you really that desperate for sex and/or reproduction that you'd tolerate a relationship with someone who you have to be fake with or else they'd leave you?
I get that it hurts when you realize you picked a bad person to be in a relationship with. But that's all it is. If it happens again and again, it suggests there's a problem with the way you are selecting partners, not that it's some iron-clad rule of the universe (which I can assure you from personal experience, it isn't).
Tell that to the vvoman instead, they are the ones with the problem not helping us but laughing at us 🙄
@@carlitosbrigante6889 why don't you tell them then? It's easy dude Just set boundaries and if they don't respect them leave
Advice for men. ONLY open up to your guy friends, therapist & family members (male or female) that you trust and are ok with being vulnerable around... NEVER EVER open up to your girlfriend about anything. Women say that they want a man who is vulnerable but I assure you it will be used against you & her level of attraction to you will fall. Women want their man to be their rock who is on top of his game in every way at all times
💯
Ya, from my perspective, still no. My own mom put the "man up" card on me.
Yall are describing actual psychopaths, not human beings.
3 out of 4 older sisters and my mother+3 of 4 adult intimate female relationships I've had say otherwise. We are just describing our real lived experiences with today's women!
Men should just talk to God, or find some older dude who is about it who can be a mentor. Forget therapy for anything other than PTSD or some severe abuse issue. Most problems a man has have to be fixed by themselves by setting a goal, setting a plan to reach the goal and accomplishing the tasks every day.
I know what you mean about good times not being a good predictor of a future divorce.
There was this RUclips short I watched a while ago and it was a doctor saying there are two types of couples:
1) Couples who fight when a problem comes up, and therefore weaken their relationship.
2) Couples who work together or find their relationship strengthening when a problem comes up.
My mom used to loose her nerve on me and my brother pretty much everyday ( screaming and slapping) . One day that my grandpa was sick ( I was very close to him because he would take care of me as my parents worked a lot and during holidays) she announced to me as I was getting out of the car to go to school , that he had cancer and was not going to make it and then she drove away. I was 11 or 12 . I spent the two first hours of school crying on my desk . When the bell rang as I was bending to put my books into my bag, an other kid kicked me in the head and ran away . I couldn't tell who did it as I was almost knocked out but I knew it was because I showed weakness in front of all my class ( it was the first and only time ). The only thing it teached me is that people are cruel and want nothing to do with weakness, even if it's justify.I guess it's a natural reaction because weakness is dangerous in the wild and it could endanger the pack ( other people) You have to choose if you grow stronger out of it or if you let it destroy you. That's pretty much all you can do . Don't expect the world to change for you because it won't.
I've scrolled the comments section, and responded to the anecdotes regarding the reality of male vulnerability, and how it isn't really allowed.
But I'm out of a decade-long marriage, in my 30's, and I've found no less than 7 women interested in me, and I've been vulnerable with all of them at different times.
I will say, 1 of the 7 had no idea what to do with it, because... they're used to being the vulnerable one, and another made it about her, because she's probably emotionally stunted, but I've chased none of them, and they're all choosing to stick around.
So, maybe most women just suck.
Doesn't sound like the seven you found suck?
@@Stegosaurus12345 Bless you, brother. Good women are out there.
"I want to believe."
-X-Files music-
I think the distinguishing point you made is that men who have already accomplished a lot, who open up and be vulnerable, really do get the opportunity to be "let off the hook" or allowed to "express themselves", simply by virtue of "the hard road they had to go down to get successful". Whereas the every day man who's just struggling his ass off, with very little help or guidance from others, often gets shamed for being vulnerable, when in fact, they are the one's that need the most support. I'm sure Chris would admit that if he didn't win his 7th title it would've been a crappy feeling but not the end of the world, simply by proxy of all the success he's had up until then. Really interesting.
We live in the age of equality. And yet almost a million men have died in ukraine. And almost all of them were forced to fight. That is the great lie of our generation. 😂😂
May they Rest in Peace brother.
I wonder where all the strong, independent women went after all hell broke loose.
She can never not be analyzing your emotional strength. Whether she understands that she’s doing this or not.
Great video. Perfect timing. Merry Christmas!
My aunt kept asking my brother if he was clothing pin or a man whenever he would not act like a "man" aka be weak or complain about something he didn't like to do. He was a little child....8 years old....now he never opens up to any woman besides maybe his girlfriends.
I have the the opposite problem, most of my ex girlfriend's told me I'm "insensitive", a "narcissist" or "brutal" whatever that means. Whoever you are women gonna complain, you are too little this, you are too much that. The best is just be yourself how you were born and raised. Who cares what other think, I support the sensitive guys although I am not one of them.
Well if you ever break down in front of them
You will realize that it's all talk
They don't actually want any of that
Sounds as though they may be right in your case ... not "caring what others think" can indeed be insensitive.
I have a tatic when i'm dating. I show weakness in the dating phase. If she stays, good, i can study her behavior. If she leaves, good, her loss.
Whatever you do in a relationship, dont allow your mental deficiency or ill mental health affect you. Many will use your own illness and problems against you. I guess as we get older we realise that a partner has to be exactly that. I would have thrown myself on a physical or emotional grenade for my wife, but as soon as I got poorly my problems became hers. Hard to take. Great video Chris, to all of my brothers out there, you will be ok, and you can go on to better things.
Simple: Men who women already view as strong are allowed to display weakness because this deepens their grasp on men's personalities, Men who women already view as weak merely confirm what women know about how weak they are. One wows them but the other repulses them.
So true brother! So true! I finally found a woman who accepts me for being emotionally vulnerable without having to be a Superman.
never let her go my man, and don't abuse her for that, because just reading that comment, i personally am scared that one day she will mind it. but how can i judge behind this screen? you do you man
The sad reality is that society thinks they totally understand men….it doesn’t have a clue! We all get labelled with the same marker. Too many of us are getting tossed to the side being branded as pathetic or not worthy to be called a man. This has to stop and if it doesn’t it’s going to cause a lot of guys to become bad not good. If we want positivity in men we need drive, direction, interest and passion. We need purpose.
I miss my wife and my kids. Thanks very good points.
It's a zero-sum game. Brotherhood needs to be a thing again. And if it never was a thing, we need to make it a thing.
As a 55yo man.and alone and single for 26years now..my motto is to always help without ever asking for help,to give but never to recieve and to love without ever being loved..its called the joy of the beautiful struggle..
Learng how to 'fight' in a committed relationship takes training. Most men are not familiar with these skills. It takes two to tango, and to enter the ring with love. Women are equally in need of learning the art of 'fighting fair'.
Merry Christmas you Savage, you make the best quality youtube shorts
Having been now married for 35 years i can honestly say that open and honest communication has been our strength over the years. That communication was established early on when we were dating.
Very good
Recently, I had a challenging split. The breakup of my five-year relationship a few months ago has been quite difficult. I still harbor a deep affection for my ex-boyfriend, and I can't seem to stop thinking about him. My attempts to win him back have been unsuccessful, and at this point, it seems impossible to be with anybody else. It may seem strange to admit this, but I miss him terribly and can't stop thinking about him.
As usual, can't have nice things. Man up and don't let your guard down.
The very first thing said in this video is the key. It's okay for a man to show (some) emotions as long as it comes from a place of strength and command of the situation. "I'm feeling this way but it's okay I've got this."
It does kinda seem to be like that
Possibly my favourite clip ever
This is great info.. following
The way you talk about vulnerability reminds me of what the difference is between being weak and being peaceful.
Which being the ability to cause harm if required. Being weak means you can not cause harm even if you wanted to.
I wonder if the same applies here for emotional management/showing your emotions?
I think in all honesty that we simply just have a LOT of deeply fragmented and emotionally damaged people who need an identity to validate the emptiness one feels in a soulless technological hellscape.
Even then, only on a very limited basis
Sort of a one time option
Even the strongest will be ridiculed, if vulnerability is persistent
Some of us mentally implode. This is what some of us do. maybe do is a unhelpful word as it is not voluntary.
A very interesting video, thank you for sharing your/men’s view point. As a woman, in her 30s, this makes me sad to hear. I want to KNOW and SEE my man. It’s a red flag for me if a man won’t fully be himself with me or include me in his inner world, the men in my prior relationships with these characteristics were less interested than they said and/or incapable of connection. Well isn’t that a paradox? Vulnerability is a sign of trust and strength, and yes of course, not all your inner most emotions and thoughts have to be shared with your partner but discussed with someone more appropriate, psychologist, etc. I would never look down on a man (or woman) being vulnerable or showing pain, if a b*tch does, let her go. The only reasons I can see for a lack of an empathetic response are assholes feeling sorry for themselves, severe immaturity, spoiled and entitled overgrown brats - no matter the gender
Every other girl will say this, but things turn out to be something opposite. They get disinterested and irked. I believed in my best friend, thought she was different but things got too much for her. Women can't handle a man's emotions. Never open up. Stay alone love everyone, don't expect anything back. If you can't control your expectations don't do anything for anyone.
The problem is that for every woman like you, there are many more who are far less empathetic, and so the risk men take in being vulnerable with any woman - no matter how empathetic that woman is on the inside - is extremely high.
At it's root, toxic masculinity is masculinity that does not permit emotional intelligence or vulnerability. We have some major double standards to work through here - both men and women.
On the marriage and divorce front, I don't know how many weddings you've been to in the last 20 years, Pat classical marriage vows have been removed from all but the most Orthodox of wedding ceremonies.
For richer or for poor, in sickness and in health.
That line has been excised from the sentiment around marriage.
When in fact, the only proof of a marriage is its ability to persist through adversity. Being married when it is convenient is not a marriage at all.
Truth. I don’t want someone who can stand with me in the best of times.
I want someone who will stand with me in the worst of times.
I think it's really about meeting someone when you just went through hell and are in the rebound. So when you meet, you're not at your apex best, you're at a very real (maybe a bit raw) and hungry for more.
If those worst times arent of your own making. If you are in thr worst times because of a series of bad decisions you made then you cant expect a woman to tolerate it. No doubt she tried to tell you that you were screwing up before it got too bad.
@@ClaireGreen-wd2gm we're all humans. you're right, but everyone makes mistakes. if a woman instantly leaves you because you made a mistake or multiple, it's a very fragile/weak relationship. thats only held up by the image the man wants the woman to see, it's just not the full picture. and in my eyes not a full relationship. call me naive but i wil probably die with this view because i believe it's how it should be. but a lot of things should be different, but aren't
@svenheuseveldt7188 If its a series of mistakes shes not instantly leaving you. Shes had to sit there and watch you make a series of dumb decisions and she got tired of it.
Men want a ride or die. Its like that doctor that was acting like he was having a psychotic break and packed his family up to drive them out of state because he thought someone was after them. She got in the car and just went along with it and he drove himself, his wife and children off a cliff in a Tesla and they all lived somehow. Men were praising her for being so trusting....but really yall think we should just sit there while yall literally or metaphorically drive the family off a cliff or its not true love. Like if a woman has any self preservation instincts at all you say she never loved you.
They don't want men to open up and be vulnerable. They want guys like Chris or Jason Momoa to open up and be vulnerable
I think it's right that how couples handle conflict is telling. The problem is that it changes with the stage. Unfortunately the stages are kind of long. The honeymoon period can last 2 years. Those chemicals will change the way you have conflict. Once they are on the decline, then attraction is wearing off then you will start to fight more and then it's time to learn how to get through conflict with each other. Often times this all happens unconsciously so that couples are just finding out who they really are in the relationship 6 months to 2 years in.
A potential way of changing the dynamic is to know what will happen and talk about it early on consciously. How do you fight? how do you want to fight? What do you typically fight about? What would help? because if you're really thinking of committing then thinking together about how to get through the conflicts is probably going to help after those chemicals wear off. it might not though, those hormones are powerful and change people quite dramatically at times.
Learng how to fight in a committed relationship takes training. Most men are not familiar with these skills.